Women, Friendships & Sex: Do Birds of a Feather Really Flock Together?
There seems to be confusion about what a “sexually liberated woman” is these days . No one seems to be more confused than Kiely Willams, but I digress. Particularly among black women, even those of us who are aware of the role that labels such as “slut”, “jezebel” and “freak” have in our oppression, we are not given many other options. If the media is to be our guide, we are either over-sexed rump-shakers or under-sexed “ladies” who pride success more than companionship and, according to various publications and media outlets, are paying for it with loneliness.
It doesn’t help that this oppressive binary regarding sex is reinforced by women ourselves. Even the most progressive of us are vulnerable to these pressures. Last summer, I was visiting my best friend and her other best friend, who we’ll call Carmen. I didn’t know Carmen very well, but I figured any friend of my best friend was a friend of mine, right? We had interests in common, and she was fun and edgy. I was beaming with the glow of having made a new friend-until we were kicked out of a private party because Carmen was caught having sex with at least two other people in the host’s bathroom.
As we stood on the steps outside of the party, I was embarrassed. Not for being ousted out of the party, but for the wave of judgment I felt towards Carmen. Me, the first one to stand up to people who throw around terms like “slut” “whore” and “buss-down” (A Chi-town favorite), was judging this woman for having different views on sex from me. Even worse, I feared that being friends with someone with more liberated views on sex would reflect badly on me. If your friend gets down a certain way, do people assume that you get down that way as well? Moreover, why is that a bad thing? Why, after so many decades of fighting for gender equality, do some of us still care what people think about our sex lives? I wanted to see if these were just my hang-ups. A survey of 56 women, ranging in age from 24 to 57, predominately black/African American (75 percent) gave me the following insights on the connection between our friendships with other women and our sex lives:
- Most women talk with their friends about their sex lives, either “Sometimes” (48 percent). “Frequently” (26 percent) or “Always” (4 percent).
- 67 percent said that they have judged a female friend for their sexual choices.
- Over 78 percent of women said that they have the same sexual values as their friends.
- The majority of women (56 percent) said that they don’t feel that the behavior of friends has an impact on their sexual reputation, but only 2 percent said that they didn’t care about their sexual reputation in the first place.
When asked what kind of situations elicited judgment towards their friends, the responses has similar themes:
Unsafe sex: Any friend (especially my best friend) who engages in unprotected sex, whether in a relationship or not, is an idiot.
Having relationships with married men: I have a friend who has sex with married men. She’s always talking about guys are no good but yet in still she doesn’t look herself in the mirror. Your perception is your reality so if you are constantly messing around with guys who are unavailable then that’s all you are going to meet.
Casual sex: Before I became sexually active, I judged my friend for having sex with men who she was not in a relationship with or interested in being in a relationship. My opinions on this have since changed after becoming sexually active.
Using sex as an ego boost: A certain person I used to associate myself (with) would not only validate herself through men and sex, but then became very proud of how much “ass” she got and the variety. This made me uncomfortable because she was seen as a harlot, and we, in this case, did (not) share the same values. We are no longer friends because of another situation, involving a man.
When looking at the results, I realized that my judgment didn’t come from a need to put Carmen in a category, or out of the desire to appear more chaste than her. Like the women who participated in this survey, I was concerned about what was behind the need to be sexual in such a public and casual manner. I wondered if Carmen was truly liberated, or was her liberation a cage itself?
It’s important for women to remember that terms such as “whore” and “slut” not only diminish female sexuality; these terms are manifestations of a patriarchal society that wants to separate the “good” women from the “bad” women. In heterosexual relationships, it means that “good” women get stable, sex-starved marriages and “bad” women get sexual freedom, but not a commitment. For black women, this binary thinking regarding sexuality still impacts us the same way is did during slavery by justifying the mental, physical and sexual abuse of women who are deemed “over-sexed.”
Women, like men, are sexual beings. Women, like men, make mistakes and need the people who love them to help them see clearly. And women, like men, need to have honest and open dialogues about sex with their friends that are about solutions, not categories.
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jazzyphile on
Why is Raven Symoné’s Sexuality Your Business?
She sure as heck kept it on the low while she was milking the Disney-Good Girl money. I guess she milked that tit dry.
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jazzyphile on
No Romance Without Finance?
Wasn't Obama pretty much broke and in debt with college loans when he hooked up with Michelle?
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CK1 on
Why is Raven Symoné’s Sexuality Your Business?
Bravo to her. I think more celebrities ... gay or straight ... should keep their personal lives to themselves.
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myblackfriendsays on
Pump Your Fist, Arsenio Hall is the New Celebrity Apprentice
He broke a lot of barriers on his show in the 90's. I would love to see him back on TV regularly.
The girl was caught having sex with two people, in someone elses house, during a party, thus causing all associates to be thrown out of the party, and the author is feeling guilty for judging the woman????
Is this for real?
Get the hell out of here, bump that judge all you want, Im busting a hole in the table with the gavel Im banging with, that mess is crass, if it aint that kind of party then it aint that kind of party.
This doesnt have anything to do with being liberated or not, or being whorish or not it’s about not having respect for those around you.
I can understand if your at a swingers spot but it looks like you were not, hell I can understand them wanting to be risky but they got caught and since they decided to play it out in public they are subject to the court of public opinion including all those who came with them.
You damn right this is a reflection on the author, guilt by association, you can still respect someone and be cool with them if there views on life are different from yours.
But when their mess starts seeping over on to you then a line needs to be drawn or else you start taking the licks thats meant for them.
Totally agree!! Whether you judge her or not is your personal decision, but it wasn’t that kind of party, and the host probably found her actions (as well as those of the other two participants) disrespectful.
My grandma always said “If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas” and to “watch the company you keep”, and, so far, that advice hasn’t failed me. If it were me, and she had shown that lack of consideration for me as well as the host (by doing something that would affect me negatively i.e. get me kicked out of the party), and I didn’t even know her that well, that would have been the end to any potential friendship.
Learning how to “not judge” is probably one of the most challenging things to do as a human being. To judge means that you FEEL something is supposed to be a certain way instead of accepting what it IS.
With that said. All women are not going to have the same sexual experiences, make the same sexual choices, and choose the best sexual partners. It’s simply not the way life works.
For me it all boils down to accepting peoples differences and learning how to not beat up other people’s live with the “morality measuring stick” of self-righteousness. Everyone has the right to live life in the lane that they’ve created for themselves.
I could be chatting whole load of crap right about now but I wanted to comment and it’s late…
I get what the writer is saying about being judgemental, but at the same time what about right or wrong?
Maybe you shouldn’t label someone as something (‘whore’, ‘slut’, ‘disgusting’) but at the same time we all have an opinion. If you think something is wrong then I don’t think you should feel guilty about it?
End of my the day if I’m not really cool with what my friend is doing whether it’s sexual or not I’m not really gonna ‘roll with them’… You ever heard the saying you lie with dog you catch fleas…
Maybe I’m chatting a whole load of crap, I don’t know it’s been a long day….
Sorry, but there is a difference between being liberated and doing some whorish stuff. Let’s be honest here. I hate when people used the word “liberated” to promot bad behavior. Yes, we all have a difference in our sexual lifestyle and how we express ourselves sexually but like everything their is a time and place for it, and banging two guys in the host’s bathroom is NOT one of them, this wasn’t a sex club or a sex party, I’am assuming so why even do that in the first place? Why not leave with the two men and go to a hotel or something? Calling someone out on bad behavior and saying they should have use better judgment isn’t the same thing as being judgmental. This doesn’t only extend to women but men as well! Me and my friends are living proof that you can have diffferent sexual experience and perference and still be best friends, I’ am a virgin, one of my friends does casual sex of loving and leaving them, and the other one is a self proclaimed “freak” her words not mines and we all do fine because we know that you can still be a sexual being and enjoy sex and have your individual sexual perference and STILL ACT AND BE A LADY! And even though we don’t want to admit it, but people do view us by the company we keep! Like the saying goes, birds of a feather, DO flock together for example, if you hang out with a bunch of robbers and people who steal, people are going to assume you steal too! They are not going to think you are an angel when they see you, even when you could be! So, if people think if “carmen” gets down like that and do it whenever and wherever then people are going to assume that her friends get down like that too! Again, people need to link the ideals of being a lady with being Sexual liberated, the two is not exclusive of each other! Their are women who are the picture of grace, being lady-like and classy with a healthy and “liberated” sex life and perference that you would never even think of. THAT WAS JUST BAD BEHAVIOR and unclassy not liberated
I agree with your message, Binky.
I think a lot of people are confuse about maintaining some decorum while being sexually liberating.
You need a NEW friend. If your girlfriend hangs out with girls like Carmen I can suspect it will start to rub off. I’ll use myself as an example because I’m older and I can reflect. My first high came as a result of a friend of mines younger sister I gave a ride home–who had a joint. Too embarrassed to say DON’T smoke that in my car. I thought to myself “you are going to get a contact anyways” thus began my dope smoking. Later in college I met three good girls in the dorm who didn’t get high. I was the only one smoking cigarettes also. Fortunately for me they rubbed off and I stopped all my bad habits. As an adult hanging out with some friends at Red Lobster. A friend of mine “home girl” had sex in the bathroom with a “doctor” she met at the bar. She and my friend ran out of the restaurant before the cops came. My friend talked about her for doing that and was mad they had to leave because we were ALL having a great time. My friend and I were mostly “co workers” than friends. I later found out why my brother and his wife divorced. I thought I knew my ex sister in law but I didn’t. This girl was a freak; she dated men and women, white men, my brother’s friends, her friend’s men, whoever laid money down. She was AWFUL. I no longer felt obliged anymore to continue our friendship just because she was the mother of my nieces and nephew. I wished my brother had divorced her earlier. Now I have nieces that are in college and one is a “freak”. She loves to suck dicks. So we have labeled her like we did the girls during my era. Everyone in the family knows about her and the family can‘t believe this little has grown up to be like that. (She is the daughter of my divorced sister in law). I have a niece who is a freak and I can’t believe it. A friend guy told me she should start charging and not do it for free.
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I’m sorry but that women caught having sex with two people at a party was wildin out. I don’t judge her for doing two guys in one night but that was just the wrong place/time.
My friends and I have very similar sexual histories however we have very different views on sex from very conservative to extremely liberal.
I really hate it when women judge other women based on their sexual practices… especially women who think there should be this specific time limit and blah blah blah… mind your biz… do you and let the next woman do her. if its your friend and you see she’s being unsafe and obviously degrading herself than you can give your two cents but dont be overbearing and dont be condescending. your way isnt necessarily the right way. and even if it is you have to respect that different people have different ways of looking at things and everyones got to learn for themselves how to best handle certain situations…
I think your initial and instinctive reaction to “Carmen’s” actions were correct and justified. If “Carmen” did what she did in the privacy of her own home then there would be nothing to discuss. But the fact that she felt the need to turn some unsuspecting host’s home into a porn set is definitely slutty or bussdownesque.
I agree with Chakka Reeves when it comes to the media’s perception of women. It reminds me of the scene in “Sex & the City: The Movie” when Carrie and Miranda are in the store around Halloween and the two options for costumes for a woman are a sex kitten or a witch. Unfortunately stereotypes for women still exist. Both men and women are debating over if a woman’s sexual behavior is socially acceptable. Maybe we need a clear definition of “sexually liberated.” Where do we draw the line? How far is too far, and when is it appropriate to call a woman a slut or a whore?
WOW
let me just say that “sexually liberated” is just a coverup and a cute pseudo-intellectual way of saying you’re a slut.
i dont care male or female if you engage in behavior like the female with the two males (i cant call them men or women cause they arent acting as such).you are a SLUT male or female.
i find some of these comments ridiculous that promote behavior like that and use the overused “do you” and “to each their own” its not about that. why do people keep forgetting that HIV/AIDS and STDs exist and are spreading like wildfire? the type of behavior people are engaging in is disgusting and fcking reckless. how dare you people try to glam it up and call it “sexually liberated”. you gonna call it that when that same “free spirited” person gets genital herpes for the rest of their life?
can we PLEASE stop being reckless with sex? quit promoting that crap.can we please be mindful of the things that are out here and making people drop like flies? i dont care if im being called judgemental im watching out for my health. its a natural defense mechanism for me to say “lemme stay away from those people”
“…Carmen was caught having sex with at least two other people in the host’s bathroom.”
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Iiiiick! “Carmen” is a nasty, stank-a-dank, low-life, putrid p*s, no-moral-having DIRTY disrespectful SLUT!
This is not the type of individual I’d knowingly have as a friend, in my house, using my bathroom (eeewwww), eating off my dishes, sitting they cootie-infested ass on my sofa, intermarried in my family or hired in any of my businesses. Do what you do – but others also have the right to not allow loose tricks in their lives and personal space.
And “Carmen” is the very type that quickly goes looking for sympathy and the gub’mint/tax-payers to support her via welfare, a medical card, food stamps, subsidized housing etc. when she catches a wicked incurable STD or drops a bunch of children out her unmarried overused ass that she can’t financially support.
I agree that most misuse the term “sexually liberated” to describe themselves when the reality is they’re nothing but STANK TRICKS; then they want to whine for help or complain when studies show BW have a 48% prevalence of herpes and 70% of females infected with HIV are BW.
I’ve zero sympathy for dumbass hos. And I don’t give a sh*t about being labeled ‘judgmental’ and will continue to call things for WHAT THEY ARE, nor do I care about the raggedy PC-patrol tor feminists hat gets in a snit over certain labels, insist they be stricken from the lexicon, and act like uttering them is disrespectful.
The fact is everybody knows good and gotdamn well there are – indeed – jump-offs, bus downs, c*m guzzlers, tricks, sluts, hos, bitches, skanks etc. and, regardless of how much they try to front and lie, NOT A ONE OF ‘EM HAS RESPECT FOR THEMSELVES!
Of course the actions of Carmen were not cool. But only because she didn’t consider the host’s feelings and ideologies about sex in her home. She is not a slut because she had sex in a public place with 2 dudes. She is disrespectful because she chose to liberate herself in someone else’s home. There is a huge difference. Who cares if anyone thinks shes a slut or a “buss-down”? The host’s personal feelings about Carmen’s sexual ideologies don’t matter at all. The hosts’s feeling about her home being disrespected are what’s at the bottom line. What goes on with Carmen’s vag is no one’s business to judge.
What’s scary about the comments here are that they are dripping with surface emotions. Not too many of ya’ll are digging deep enough to discuss what the actual issue is.
We often want to be judged by others based on our intentions but we tend to judge others based on their actions. We are a sum of all of our experiences, not just some. So you hear about one incident with Carmen and you label her a whore? That’s GroupThink cattle-coralling thoughts. I’m sure we all have done something and had people label or judge us based on that one thing and really wished people didn’t do that. Our first comment is “you don’t know me…” We are more than our mistakes people…
You don’t make any damn sense “SMH” ,you sound rather naïve ,what Carmen did doesn’t have nothing to do with being sexually liberated,she has very poor judgement,lack of self Worth and as much as people like her want to act like they got it going on we all know there’s nothing remotley positive in spreading your legs to every single man you meet.
Come on be real , women like that fall into the category of “sluts” as hurtful as it might be for these women to admit it that’s what they are.Period.
They the little helpers for Hiv,herpes,clamydhia,crabs spreading ,there s nothing liberating about that .
Let’s stop being stupid and defend people who don’t accept What they really are.
“We often want to be judged by others based on our intentions but we tend to judge others based on their actions.”
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Would you have society judge murderers, rapists or thieves by their “intentions” or their “actions?” See how dumb that statement was?
So what then is a “slut?” The dictionary describes it as an individual that is ‘dirty, unclean in habit, indifferent to moral restraint, immoral, sexually unrestrained, loose, a fornicator’, but I suppose some would have everyone believe the term simply does not exist or apply to anyone. (roll eyes) Yeah, riiight.
Folks really need to get off the PC feminist bullsh*t here. Most uber-promiscuous individuals that play themselves like tramps are neither liberated, emotionally mature, sexually satisfied or happy; they’re sad, pathetic, lonely and empty people trying to fill the holes in their souls and failing.
The attempt to clean this up, reduce the offense to mere location, and insinuate “Carmen’s” only bad move was not respecting her host’s home and restraining her impulses is funny. Hell that’s being painted as worse than the fact that “Carmen” slutted out and f*cked “at least two other people” (whom she’d probably just met).
If an individual lacks the scruples to show restraint and reverence while in someone else’s home at the very least, I doubt they have or display much self-respect, moral constraint, mental health or cleanliness in their overall sexual and non-sexual lives.
“Me, the first one to stand up to people who throw around terms like “slut” “whore”"…
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Not me!
I’m a “if the shoe fits” type a chick and there are far more deserving and innocent individuals worth my time, effort and defense so, outside of commentary on the vile verbal abuse in hip-hop/rap lyrics, won’t catch me standing up in protest.
It’s more than obvious most sluts are not even remotely “sexually liberated,” satisfied or happy; if they were TRULY either of those things, confidence would go along with it and they wouldn’t whine, cry, demand respect or give one runny poop about being called a “slut” or “whore.”
Hello everyone!
Thank you for reading my first Clutch magazine article. I’ve been reading the comments for a few days, and I wonder if starting out with Carmen’s story was a mistake. I did so because it was the incident that made me think more critically about how and why we label women based on their sexual behavior. I think some readers got hung up on the first part of the story, and focused less on the results of the survey, and what the survey taught me, which is that oftentimes our concern for others manifest itself as judgment. I think learning the difference between the two is important, and that the cause of the behavior is as important as the behavior itself, whether it’s low self-esteem, past trauma, etc.
Thanks again,
Chakka
Oh.come.on!
Folks can live in pee-cee la-la confusion all they like but all of us make “judgments” with almost everything we do and everyone we encounter.
That’s a fact and I find it absurd and ridiculous to act as if making a “judgment” is suddenly somehow wrong.
We make a “judgment” that X career is better for us than Y; we make a “judgment” and decide to never date A and go out with B; we make a “judgment” and use birth control to plan a family at the right time; we make a “judgment” that we dislike the fit of the blue dress and purchase the peach-colored one; we make a “judgment” and take a cab after a night of partying; we make a “judgment” and eat skinless chicken and brown rice instead of nasty processed or fast food; we make a “judgment” and put on 3″ pumps for an event instead of suffering for 3 hours in 4″ hooka heels; we make a “judgment” and never drive around certain neighborhoods after dark because the place is infested with criminals and low-lifes…on and on and on.
Whether the “cause of the behavior” is past trauma, low self-esteem or whatever, bedding married individuals, sleeping around without protection, skanking out in somebody’s crib, being promiscuous to fill the holes in one’s soul or for some so-called “ego boost” is slutty and should be called for what it is.
I don’t agree that the “cause” is more important than the behaviors which can lead to sexual assault, murder, incurable and deadly STDs and pregnancy – ALL of which can lead to even more difficulties.
It’s a cop-out to hide behind non-judgment and liberality.It’s also weakness.Every behavior is not acceptable nor excusable nor right.That includes sexual behavior.
Words don’t define people.People define themselves by their behavior and the words describe the behavior.
If you don’t like the word,then change the behavior.