Reports confirm actress Angelina Jolie will star in a new film about the queen of the Nile, Cleopatra. Hollywood’s latest biopic on the iconic Egyptian woman is adapted from the forthcoming biography Cleopatra: A Life by Pulitzer prize-winner Stacy Schiff. According the Guardian, the role was developed for and with Jolie.

Reportedly there’s a possibility Jolie’s real-life lover Brad Pitt will play Mark Anthony in what is obviously is a mimic of the 1963 film “Cleopatra” starring Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. Taylor and Burton were real-life lovers as well, and this controversial romance help the film become a major hit.

And now for the jokes:

Schiff says, “I think she’d (Jolie) be perfect for it and I can see a possible Oscar in her future. Physically, she’s got the perfect look.”

Michael Pietsch, the publisher of the soon-to-be released biography says, “Angelina Jolie radiates grace and power, exactly the qualities that Stacey Schiff finds in her biography of the most intriguing rulers who ever lived.”

I don’t dispute Jolie’s dramatic skill but really, enough of this! This is Hollywood’s third time casting a White woman to play Cleopatra–in 1934, actress Claudette Colbert, in 1945, actress Vivien Leigh, and the latest, Elizabeth Taylor in a 1963 version.

It’s seems Jolie’s activist life is separate from her Hollywood life. It would appear that a woman who spends so much time in Africa would feel at least the slightest contrition on accepting a role about a Black African woman–although the actress did portray a bi-racial woman in the 2007 film “A Mighty Heart.” We can debate Cleopatra’s ethnic make up all day long. But the fact is, there is increasing scientific evidence confirming Cleopatra was a Black woman –whether or not she had a dark complexion is not the issue–Cleopatra was an African queen. It is artistically and morally irresponsible for Angelina Jolie to accept this role.

What are your thoughts? How do you feel about Angelina Jolie playing Cleopatra?

  • Lo’rann

    Hmmm. How about Kerry Washington, or Zoe Saldana (who isn’t fully black either, but it’s closer than Angelina.) ?

  • Guest

    I think the problem is that *they* don’t want to show a black woman with so much power…and especially over a white man… that’s all it is to it

  • Akai*

    Article: “It’s seems Jolie’s activist life is separate from her Hollywood life. It would appear that a woman who spends so much time in Africa would feel at least the slightest contrition on accepting a role about a Black African woman…

    …there is increasing scientific evidence confirming Cleopatra was a Black woman –whether or not she had a dark complexion is not the issue.
    ****************************************************************

    This is simply bull-diggity and people really need to quit passing along these Afrocentric myths and fantasies.

    At the time Egypt had been ruled by a Ptolemaic (Greek royal family) dynasty for 300 years.

    Yes, Cleopatra VII was born in Alexandria (Egypt) but she was a Macedonian Greek from the Ptolemaic line, not Egyptian.

    Besides, Cleopatra VII was fugly as all get out so (on that account alone) Jolie is a mismatch.

  • Billy

    Cleopatra was not Egyptian, but Greek. By the time Cleopatra was in power Egypt was no longer ruling herself. Most importantly Cleopatra was not the most powerful Egyptian female ruler. But she is a ruler Europeans and Westerners can identify with, thus her popularity. For real people this is not that big of a deal. Got bigger things to be outraged about. Cleopatra and her ancient love affair is not one of them. You are getting upset about a story from Hollywood…a fairytale…uber-fiction from the ultimate puppet masters. Really? It’s not like Angelina was cast to play Sojourner Truth. Angelina was cast to appeal to the masses and to make sure the investors got their money back. And that rarely, if ever, happens with a non-White person in the lead. Dont be so quick to be outraged and cry wolf. How about being outraged about the suffering still going on in Haiti… Or be joyous over the Tony Award winners Viola and Denzel…

    #RelevancePlease

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Erika-Ayala/622317229 Erika Ayala

    Agreed! Zoe is an Afro-Latina which still counts.

  • http://morningrailway.com/ miranda

    I don’t know why we get so up in arms about this. There may be increasing evidence but nothing is really proved. And I agree with Akai that she was not Egyptian anyway. She may have had dark-skin or even tan, but there’s nothing to say she was ours.

    And I also think even if Cleopatra was Black, why must she be our queen? Why must we regard her as one of our own so badly? Every time Black folks get on the topic of Cleopatra, we have to claim her. She was kind of a selfish ruler and wasn’t really all that interesting except for the fact that she had an affair and apparently looked fabulous. Who cares?! I think Nefertiti is way hotter plus she was actually a warrior.

    Let’s get over this Miss Cleo nonsense. It’s not even an issue to those who know enough about the history. For those who want to get mixed up in the mythos and glamor of it, save that for another film.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Erika-Ayala/622317229 Erika Ayala

    Cleopatra was a mixed woman from what I can tell from digging. Mostly “Greek” or Macedonian (Her family was really inbred); Which is not white. She may not of been black, but she definitely not white either.

    So yeah its disappointing, they could of picked someone a bit more appropriate such as Zoe Saldana or Halle Berry or other actresses of mixed ancestry to fit the role, but the movies will always cater to their audiences color schemes.

    If they ever do a movie about Nefertiti and pick a white actress, then its cause for uproar. ;-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Erika-Ayala/622317229 Erika Ayala

    I’m so over this now. LoL

  • http://www.ericabunker.com Erica B.

    Cleopatra was NOT a Black woman! She was of Greek decent. So casting a Black actress would be even more ridiculous and historically-incorrect.

  • Elona

    A agree I don’t think she so paly that part. We have to many black actress that could play that part,

  • http://commentarybyval.blogspot.com/ Val

    I love all the equivocating (some) Black people do to make excuses for what White people do. All of you who go read the White mans history books and then come back and spout what’s in it as if you actually wrote it yourselves are really lost. Please use some common sense when reading otherwise you just sound silly.

  • Elizabeth

    Cleopatra was Greek, white and inbreed. She only had four great grandparents when people usually have 16! I think there should really be a shift in how we, blacks, view or past and present histories in Africa. Why be bothered with who is playing Cleopatra? Why do we focus on North east Africa rather than west Africa. There were great kingdoms there as well as other regions. Ancient Egypt wasn’t the only Great Empire or Civilization to arise in Africa. Plus if you ask an Egyptian today whether they are black or white, they’ll say white.

  • Tereva

    Clearly Hollywood has selective amnesia when it comes to depicting African people on screen. Should we really be surprised? I’m not. It would be glorious to have an actress of African descent portray Cleopatra, unfortunately that would be too much like right.

  • Terri

    I agree that this should not be such a big issue but I do also understand that this is important for the writer of this article because of the simple fact that the black culture has been robbed significantly of their culture. Also even if Cleopatra was Greek she might have been a black Greek so that is still significant.

    I agree with the above statement that they don’t want a black woman to be seen in power and that is for the most part true. But that needs no further debate.

    As far as Angelina feeling contrite, I don’t think that that’s her responsibility or obligation. Just like a black woman feeling responsible or obligated to give a role to a white person because it was originally meant for a white woman. Not happening.

    And correct me if I’m wrong but if you’re born in a certain place you belong to that certain place. So if Cleopatra was born in Egypt then she was Egyptian. Let’s get it together.

    How about instead of expecting them to do it we get a black film company to give us a black Cleopatra and make a movie about it. We only do so much by talking and complaining but we can do a whole lot by getting off our butts and making the change we want to see.

  • Kaikou

    Black or white or mixed…. Angie is gonna play her and this isn’t the first time. Why be outrage and what exactly should I do about it now?

    Angelina is perfect for the role of a Queen either way. If I was Cleopatra I would love her to play me. Brad Pitt on the otherhand can move along

  • Alexandra

    I agree with Elizabeth. Get over it, they control the media so they’re gonna do what they want. African movie industries can make one if they want. Theres no point in complaining what a bunch of white people do.

    But anyway, I guess they changed the lead, cause I read that Thandie was supposed to be playing it. But whatever…..

  • http://www.thecomplexmedia.com/ Complexitii

    For those that made reference to her being Greek:

    “The result is a beautiful young woman of mixed ethnicity – very different to the porcelain-skinned Westernised version portrayed by Elizabeth Taylor in the 1961 movie Cleopatra.”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1095043/Sorry-Liz-THIS-real-face-Cleopatra.html#ixzz0qwsM3NRj

    And while there other things to complain about – this is another clear sign that white media will only portray women of color as victims while ridiculing those that accept being a victim.

  • http://www.christielover.blogspot.com rebekah

    I could actually care less about Cleopatra and Angelina Jolie but its the principle of them using this white women to play parts she does not fit just because she is over rated. She is suppose to be the goddess of gods and to the world Angelina Jolie is above all black women. In my opinion I’m still trying to figure out why or how she makes it to the top 100 celebrity bodies on VH1 (even though that’s still so irrelevant to my life) I don’t understand why she’s the top rank in looks and bodies. It seems like the color of her skin gets her where she needs to go especially before and above anyone with a darker complexion as her.

    This story to me really has absolutely nothing to do with Cleopatra if I decided I wanted to give it play or thought it wouldn’t be because of her, this has been something thats been going on and is still going on. White people avoiding and ignoring anything that has to do with black talent or just us in general which is something we ultimately have to get over because bickering about it won’t get us a role that fits our skin color. But really its just the fact that this white women is chosen and will always and forever be better then any and every black women in the business.

  • http://www.christielover.blogspot.com rebekah

    totally agree with this

  • Alexandra

    I agree!! Those Black Power freaks are always claiming her. They themselves dont even know their history.
    Anything to get away from their West African heritage.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michelle-Jamison/100000997297252 Michelle Jamison

    @Akai*

    There is another website with the same type of commentary (commentary that was not supporting the casting choices; pretty much the ‘how come there isn’t anybody black portraying Cleopatra) about Angelina Jolie being cast in the Cleopatra biopic. The thought that popped into my head was ‘wasn’t Cleo’s daddy Ptolemy the IV and orginally his family was from Greece?’ So, I thought the whole ‘Cleo was black’ point was moot.
    I also think that if they made a Cleopatra with a black actress, I’m sure there would’ve been some nay-sayers complaining about how dark/how light the hue of the actress’s skin tone. Or, the fact the media is perpetuating the ‘hottentot Venus’ stereotype by casting a black woman in a role of an Egyptian Queen, who had a son by Julius Caesar and then had children by Mark Antony.

  • Akai*

    Angelina Jolie is part Native American (Iroquois) and does have mixed ancestry.

    Alexandra wrote: “Those Black Power freaks are always claiming her. They themselves dont even know their history.”
    **************************************************************

    Very true!

    Why try to claim Egyptians as ‘their own’ when most ancestors of AA’s came from west Africa and Egypt is north Africa.

    General comments but this is the very type of junk science and unsubstantiated bullshit *some* Afrocentrics are notorious for peddling. Hell, let some of them tell it, Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln etc. were black.

    Yes Egyptian civilization informed Greek civilization which was the basis of Roman (western) civilization – but what about discussing Timbuktu (had one of the world’s first universities and was an intellectual and spiritual center back in the 1400s and 1500s) in the West African country of Mali? How about the wonderful civilization of Great Zimbabwe erected by the Karanga of South Africa and flourishing when most Europeans were living in dirt and ignorance of the middle ages???

  • http://prettyisanunderstatement.blogspot.com The Joy Krystal

    cleopatra was in th middle east/africa and what color are those people? BROWN! this heiffer is white.. with black hair.. no i’m not bitter but dang give us a role you know we can execute….. It would be different if the descendants and inhabitants were lighter thn i would not be upset, but to portray to people that cleo a$$ is light,white, and white is uncalled for. The NORMAL skint one is brown….she doesnt even have a tan.. lets please do better… i’m gonna watch this movie no doubt.. on bootleg though!

    p.s. i am an angelina fan so dont say im hating

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michelle-Jamison/100000997297252 Michelle Jamison

    @Miranda

    I am going to assume that there are plenty of African queens, from that era, who deserve to receive recognition.

  • EmeraldASG

    The choice in casting could be a racial decision or it could be that they just want a major actress to go along with this role. Angelina Jolie is a big time Hollywood actress, which would attract a lot of people to the box office. Plus, Angelina Jolie has an “exotic” look, so Hollywood will probably cast her for any role in which race is ambiguous. Besides the debate about her actually race be it either Greek or African mixed, I think the more interesting question would be what do Egyptians think of Angelina Jolie being chosen to play this pivotal role of one of their historical figures? Do Egyptians even consider themselves Africans in meaning Black or do most of them consider themselves Muslim and nearing more into non-African?

  • lostsage

    educated fools need to stop writing biographies about people from BC times. come on now they still cant even explain the pyramids so why would any one black or white want to watch a fantasized reality about cleopatra??

    just scientists working to rewrite a past they dont even fully understand.

    would love to dig deeper but this is just the internet and thoughts/attitudes do get filtered even in essay form.

  • Keebo

    Yawn I don’t care. Regardless of race…hollywood is famous for it’s whitewashing. Current exhibits? Prince of Persian and Avatar the last airbender(all leads are white while much of the villains Asian).

    Note: Cleopatra has roots in the Roman Ptolemy family – she was last of the dynasty to rule. The family ruled Egypt and nearby cities for over 300 years. They’re know for their inbreeding(her first husband was her brother) and xenophobia (the usual method used to keep power and money within the family)- at the very least she might be biracial.(in “my opinion”)

  • Keebo

    Of course, I could be wrong. Never met Cleopatra.

  • cherish

    Cleopatra was from Greece, so it wouldn’t matter if a black women wasn’t embodying her in that movie.

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  • EmpressDivine

    I saw an article about this the other day and hoped clutch would write about it. On one hand as a matter of principle I do get tired of Hollywood whitewashing people of color on film. HOWEVER from a historical point of view just as another commented stated Cleopatra isn’t really someone to fight over. There were definitely greater Egyptian queens whose ancestry is less “questionable” and there are plenty of other African queens in general whose lives would make excellent movies. One film I think we should keep an eye on is Will Smith’s movie about the last Nubian king of Egypt, Taharqa. I wonder if he’ll cave in to industry pressure and whitewash the supporting characters and/or make them “racially ambiguous.”

  • isolde

    Very True. I’m personally buying a ticket to another film and sneaking into Last Airbender, so my money doesn’t support the film.

    No, Cleopatra most likely wasn’t “black,” but it’s also unlikely that Cleopatra had the same phenotype or looked anything like Angelina either. However, mixed raced or not, Angelina reads as white and benefits from the status that being read as white confers. So, there’s really little use in seeking solidarity in Angelina as some sort of oppressed, marginalized woman of color, because that’s not her reality. The same could be said of Cameron Diaz, despite her surname. Let’s keep it real. There are a litany of mixed raced, tan, brown, black, actresses of note that could have done the role justice, from Jessica Alba to Thandie Newton, but at the end of the day, the producers were looking for what they assume will be the most bankable actress, and as such, they’re investing in Angelina. Never mind, that the only films of hers’ that seem to be financially profitable are her action movies, and the last time where the audience was asked to forget that she was white (A Mighty Heart), the movie bombed, but hey; have white privilege, will travel, right?

    Boycott “The Last Airbender!” And “Prince of Persia” too!

  • Rhuebekah

    Thank you. Can we get over it already!!!!!!!

  • howlinglove

    I’m reading these posts and as I’m seeing African/Black people actually debating this makes realize that our country, America, really,really, needs to address our educational system.
    Being into History, especially ancient History, myself I know that this Queen was not a European. Was not a Greek. Was not a Roman. That the so called mixes of blood were the same mixes we African-Americans possess this very day, and in the very, very least she looked like OUR beloved Lena Horne.
    This is really sickening, and disappointing, and insulting. But not surprising. Even Black folks/women are going along with the okey doke.
    Black women are just not respected. Simple as that.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Hey howlinglove, cleopatra was not greek? You need help. The Ptolemies were racists just like most ancient greeks(remember the greek word barbarian). And forget about “skull science”(invented by a german). That is outdated. The skull type that “Arsinoe” supposly have is also found by southern european (ie greeks). You afrocentrists can’t have your cake and eat it too. Hypocrites.

  • Akai*

    Michelle Jamison wrote: “…if they made a Cleopatra with a black actress, I’m sure there would’ve been some nay-sayers complaining about how dark/how light the hue of the actress’s skin tone.”
    **********************************************************************

    Very true, Michelle. And if, God forbid, an AA actress or actor wins an Oscar, here comes members of the group Never Satisfied to complain about the roles they won for. Pair an actress with a white male partner in a movie and wait for the Shaka Zulu militant venom!

    I’ve witnessed way too many conversations tossing out the “Why couldn’t they have cast a darker actress?” or “It’s because she’s light!” to the point that I find it all sickening. The last one had whiners in force against Zoë Saldaña (lot of recent success with Star Trek, Avatar) because she is Latina and (like President Obama) not “X enough.”

    Unfortunately, there really are individuals so paranoid and/or pathologically egocentric that they actually believe the sole objective of Hollywood, screenwriters, producers, “the media” etc. is to make blacks look bad. They talk as if there is a group of evil whites sitting in a dark room 24/7 doing nothing but conspiring and plotting the next way to disparage and re-enslave and that the only purpose of every script written, story told and movie made is to degrade AAs.

    Individuals are free to make their own movie about Cleopatra and be as erroneous and historically inaccurate about it as they please (casting a BW), but is it not possible to see positive examples like Will and Jada who produced their son’s he Karate Kid in addition to Seven Pounds, The Secret Life of Bees, Lakeview Terrace, The Pursuit of Happiness etc.? How about the fact that Will, Jada, Beyoncé and Jay Z teamed up to co-produce the outstanding Broadway musical “Fela!” that recently won 3 Tony awards? Why can’t energy be utilized creating profitable entities like the Hindi Bollywood or Nigerian Nollywood (2nd largest film industry in the world) instead of never-ending whining and racial conspiracy theories?

  • Angelique

    Angelina is the ONLY logical choice and what proves Cleopatra was African American? A single statue? Others have dewpicted her as a fair-skinned dark haired beauty a la Angelina. It is morally abhorrent to think that the writer of this article has a journalism degree and that’s the real problem. Hahaha! Jokes on you! Angelina will be perfect as Cleopatra and if they give in to the racial woe-is-me gripes, the movie will be atrocious!!!!!!

  • Angelique

    And to those stating Cleopatra was Greek, thank the gods for you and the history classes you took! It’s pretty apparent that others have failed to receive such an enriched education!

  • Akai*

    Miranda wrote: “There may be increasing evidence…”
    *******************************************************************

    What was telling is the author wrote: “..there is increasing scientific evidence confirming Cleopatra was a Black woman”; then (I suppose to prove this assertion) proceeded to link a piece that neither ‘confirmed’ nor stated anything of the sort and clearly pointed out Cleopatra’s “Greek heritage.”

    The writer of Sorry Liz, But…(Macrae) opined that a 3D image depicted “a beautiful young woman of mixed ethnicity” and how does “mixed ethnicity” automatically equal “black Africa woman?” Mixed ethnicity could mean any number of combinations i.e. Greek + Arab, Persian etc.

    The author spoke of Jolie’s casting being “morally irresponsible” but what I find “morally irresponsible” is twisting the facts and believing in fairytales about Cleopatra being Egyptian (when she was not) or that ancient Egyptians looked something like Alex Wek (when they didn’t)!!?

    The Macedonian Greek dynastic rulers adopted many Egyptian customs and, just as the Egyptian pharaohs, interbred and married family members. done to keep their bloodline “pure” and protect property, wealth and position – every single Ptolemaic ruler of Egypt (including Cleopatra) married their sister or brother

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    You ‘re welcome Angelique. Just wish they learn history even if their self esteem get crushed. I just wish jennifer aniston was playing cleopatra(she is greek after all). I know this is not the National Geographic or history channel but aniston have the face and nose of a real greek. Only problem is she have blond hair when most ancient greeks were brunette(black hair). Just look at the painting at the vase. Oh well Brad Pitt will give the role to his present love not Jennifer Aniston.

  • April

    Let’s get over this Miss Cleo nonsense.

    I love this!

    Besides, that link on Cleopatra’s heritage most definitely does not confirm that she was black. She was Greek (some say Macedonian). We can only speculate on what she really looked like, but I would guess she was probably olive-hued–somewhere in between Angelina Jolie’s and Halle Berry’s skin tones.

  • April

    Cleopatra was almost certainly not “black” in our sense of the term, but why is Angelina Jolie the “only logical choice” to play her? The consensus is that Cleopatra wasn’t at all conventionally beautiful, and there’s a good chance she, being from the Mediterranean, wasn’t fair-skinned. I think those two counts would make Jolie less of a good fit.

    But anyway, I think even if Jolie were the perfect physical match for Cleopatra, I still wouldn’t go see this film, because Jolie’s personal life has become so much of a main attraction that I don’t think she can really disappear into a character anymore. It’s like all of her roles now are “Angelina Jolie pretending to be X.”

  • Hannah

    1. I agree with the original intent of this post. Nothing makes me angrier than the casting of a white person as non-white peoples (cough, Prince of Persia, cough), it always reminds of Blackface and the old Timey’ Injun movies and starts an angry fire in me!! I guarantee you all the background folks will be tan, brown, ebony, whatever, but will not be white! (just like the previously stated movie).This is why Hollywood SUCKS, and why I mostly watch independent films. (Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with most white people, it’s the MAN I have a problem with, lol)

    2 Cleopatra’s father’s family was from Greece, her mother was AFRICAN, which equals mixed heritage, not black, nor white (that means you Angelina!), as were many egyptians at the time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm

    2.5 I’m sure Cleopatra would claim herself as an Egyptian, not black or white, but we wouldn’t cast Angelina to play Nefertiti, even if her daddy was Greek! Can we please save the ‘brown’ roles for ‘brown’ people, there are plenty of acting opportunities for white people, somebody say Amen!

    3. Just because she was the last Egyptian pharaoh does not mean she was a great one. Sorry for being crass, but she was kind of a ho/home-wrecker and pretty much killed off all of her siblings. Which leads me to my next point…

    4. Why are people so eager to claim her as a part of their race? What did she accomplish? and why is she like the most famed pharaoh? (I guess because she successfully seduced two of the most powerful men of the Roman Empire, just a guess!) We have the more recent MLK, Mandela, Shaka Zulu, Nefertiti, (arguably), and many others who have contributed far more to the African diaspora and other races.

    5. Speaking of, where’s my MLK movie at?

  • History my A&%

    Now, when you say greeks. Do you mean the “original greeks” or the one’s mixed with europeans!

    Let’s be real!

  • t. price

    thank you at least someone knows their world history. besides have these people ever seen an Egyptian? most of them look more middle eastern than african anyway. and you’re so right about them complaining about her complexion. geez folks will never be satisfied

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  • Terri

    Its funny how everyone is saying she isn’t black etc!!!! Well when you was living in those times get at me. Seriously we don’t know what she was but time will tell or we just won’t give a *bleep*

  • chillchic

    I got to this late, but uh yeah, what you said.

  • Nicole

    Cleopatra was Egyptian by birth, but ethnically, she was Greek, part of the Greek royal family that ruled Egypt as pharaohs for about 275 years. Her first language was Greek and didn’t even attempt to learn the Egyptian language of the time until later. Who knows, how prevalent inter-racial or inter-ethnic relationships were then (my guess is that they were scarce) so who knows dark or light she was. To this day even her notorious beauty is contested, which proves how little we actually know about her appearance. What we do know is that was a powerful and even ruthless leader and politician. She did use her femininity to form alliances with other powerful leaders, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t have a brain. However, that does not mean that she was successful by any means. Maybe if it were another historical figure in African history, but this one is making something out of nothing.

    They probably cast Angeline Jolie because she has the look of a wily temptress, which is how the west LOVES to think of Cleopatra.

  • http://blackbot.blogspot.com/ Black Bot

    Please. We can’t even get a black woman to play a black woman today. And you’re surprised they didn’t cast one to play Cleopatra?

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Her mother wan’t african Hannah. Can you say “racist and incestous Ptolemies”. They were the same kind of racist white coloniezer who afrocentrists complain about. You afrocentrists can’t have your cake and eat it too.

  • Pretty Cute

    Sorry but you are 100% wrong about your “facts”. I have been to Kemet (Egypt is the Greek name), studied the ancient history while there and it is clear that Cleopatra was in fact an AFRICAN woman. Maybe you should do more/better research…just a suggestion

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Plus you ‘re still using the outdated and racist “skull science” for proving that cleopatra was black Hannah. Remember it was invented by aryanist germans. Plus the skull never said “Arsinoe(the grave was unmarked) and Arsinoe wasn’t even a full blooded sibling. Plus Britain is full of PC s***t since they don’t want to offend minoirities.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Hannah you can’t have your cake and eat it too. I will repeat it a million time if I have to. I will be back. It the truth. I believe the reason for afrocentrism is because while africa did have some advanced civilization like nubia and zimbabwe, it was mostly backward. Remember I did acknowled some great african civilizations.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Plus for afrocentrists who said what you mean by a “original greek”? Look at my choice for cleopatra:jennifer aniston. See that face and nose that is what a “orginal greek” look like. Get it.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Don’t even call me racist since in africa they do acknowledged that most of their civilizations weren’t advanced. Plus they don’t even believe in that afrocentrism “sh””t”. They also couldn’t care less or even like a white coloniezer like cleopatra.

  • lee

    i’m keeping my mouth shut on the subject until they find her tomb and do a dna test. (maury style!) we can argue about this until we are blue in the face but it won’t mean a damn thing. they are still going to make this movie and angelina will keep on lining her pockets with GREEN! that’s the real color…

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Good and wise words Lee. We must have the dna evidences first before we can prove that cleopatra was mixed. But remember Lee it was most likely not possible since the Ptolemies were incestous and very racist toward egyptians(who weren’t even white look at the mural) and even nubians. The greek word for “black” was ethiopian(meaning burnt skin or something like that. You can see how the hellenes(greeks) feel toward black people.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    I mean to say that egyptians were really white. Laugh all you want but look at the murals in the pyramids.

  • lee

    “But remember Lee it was most likely not possible since the Ptolemies were incestous and very racist toward egyptians(who weren’t even white look at the mural) and even nubians. The greek word for “black” was ethiopian(meaning burnt skin or something like that. You can see how the hellenes(greeks) feel toward black people.”

    that doesn’t mean much to me….you see how the whites felt about slaves yet the majority of african americans have some european ancestry in us and the majority of that wasn’t voluntary.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Yes whites slept w/ their slaves Lee but remember she was a royal not a bastard child. Plus they castrated their slaves and alexandra was a forbidden city for non greeks. Talk about the forbidden city in china.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/TheBlack-BoxOffice/1485474273 TheBlack BoxOffice

    The larger issue is not that Angie and Brad are making a movie about another culture, but why is Black Hollywood not making more documentaries and films about our history B.C?

    We can create our own documentaries and make our own movies and cast them appropriately.
    If we start supporting Black independent film makers(Kent Faulcon,Dennis Dortch, Mark Harris, Jarrett Lee Conaway) and Black film festivals, and seriously create a resurgence of our own stories, this film with Angie and Brad would not mean anything to us as a people, because we would have told the story the way we want.

  • Akai*

    Tich Tran wrote: “I mean to say that egyptians were really white. Laugh all you want but look at the murals in the pyramids.”
    ******************************************************************

    Yeah I’m laughing because I’ve seen some of the murals in the pyramids and they were not white!

    Most credible experts point to Egyptians being a mixed population and this makes sense considering it’s location and trade routes traveled by Asians, Europeans etc. back in the day.

  • sick of stupidty bringing my people down

    are you all really that ignorant? people wonder why so many white folk think black americans are ignorant. y’all just proving it here.

    one thing everyone seems to be missing is that AFRICAN means many many things. There is no one AFRICAN race; Africa is the most genetically and ethnically diverse continent on the planet. and most people also do not realize that northern africa was mostly populated by people of phoenician decent, which is NOT african. are you going to complain about Vin Diesal playing Hannibal Barca? you should, but not because it is a white man playing a black man (since Hannibal was from what is now Tunisia, you know, northern africa) but because he doesn’t look like the phoenicians look.

    and then all of the african americans who claim pride in all the african kings; they have no grounds. the vast majority of african americans have their ancestors coming from WESTERN africa, not EAST africa or even SOUTHERN africa, where all of the Nubians and Zulus were from respectively. a descendant of a black slave here in the United States talking about the Nubians being “his people” is about as foolish as a Romanian talking about French and King Louis being one of “his people”

    the problem is, too many of my ignorant brothers and sisters open their mouths and start spouting on things they KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, and too many more listen to them and believe them, “cuz my pastor said so” and all that BS.

    GET AN EDUCATION and get over silly non-issues like this that only work to inflate resentment towards whites. We’ve got enough of that already.

    quit calling out racism in whites when you are the ones showing a racist attitude.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Hey Akai I am sure there were some mixing between the egyptians of lower egypt(white) and upper egypt(nubian/black) but for the most part they stay w/ each other. Also remember you could have a tan and still be considered white.

  • Hera

    I second that!

    See, it’s not that they don’t have someone to pla the role, they just want to continue to perpetuate their delusions that Cleopatra was white.

    It’s ridiculous actually! *rolling eyes*

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Thank you sick of stupidty bringing my people down for telling the truth even though you may be considered an uncle tom. As they said the truth will set you free. As a long time student of history(latin “scholar”), I have always been fascinated by china(I may actually be ethnic chinese from vietnam), greece, and rome. Also I will admit I like greek women although some look like men w/ their big noses. Call me a race traitor if you want but never call me ignorant or stupid.

  • fraulein17

    i am sooo with you on this @sick of stupidity!

    i am appalled at how many people were writing ” she doenst even look african!” my oh my do people forget that african doesnt =black. i know a bunch of moroccan and egyptian people who get funny looks for saying “i am of african decent” and they are very pale skinned. they ARE telling the truth! people always tend to forget that egypt is in africa.

    i also cant stand how when people say AIDS is prevalent in africa they only show black africans. what about egypt or other non black african countries? thats off topic though.

    also @stupidity you are wrong. vin diesal is mixed with black so hes not all white.lol

    and to be 100% honest. in my years of living i have come to the realization that black people are the most racist. hate me all you want and get mad but you always see blatant racist remarks and other racism coming from black people ” i dont wanna go to that store. its too many mexicans” or “this is a white people store” or “why are there asian people here? this is the all black student union” i heard all of this from family members,friends, and lots and lots of black adults. you KNOW you heard similar things too… but thats besides the point of this story. im just sayin

  • http://twitter.com/aliciafashiona Alicia Edwards

    I think “we” have bigger fish to fry.

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  • Rob

    Cleopatra wasn’t Egyptian. She was Macedonia/Greek. I think a black actress would be just fine in the role, but a non-black actress is fine as well. A pale-skinned redhead would be a bit silly. But Cleopatra was not black, no matter how much some here want to pretend otherwise. There are even contemporary engravings of her where you can see this to be true. She was descended from Alexander’s general Ptolemy, and didn’t have a drop of Egyptian blood in her body.

    So if we’re going to focus on race issues, which are important, let’s focus on real race issues instead of made up ones.

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  • Clnmike

    That was best answer here, start making the movies you want and you can cast who ever you want.

  • ELENI

    Well said Rob!! Cleopatra was GREEK !! i am from Greece and the name Cleopatra is still used today .

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Hey Eleni are you single?!. Just kidding. Although I do find greek women to be attractive

  • Val

    Okay, Cleopatra was Greek she wasn’t African. Oh for the love of God, I thought we were over this ignorance. She was a ancestor of the Ptolemy I, who acquired Egypt when the empire of the deceased Alexander the Great was divided among his chief generals. She was actually the first of the family to learn Egyptian, up until this point they only spoke Greek. She was not African, she was Greek. They need to do their homework… do not listen to this people. This is how ignorance starts by people not doing their research and only people believing this crap. Any actress would be great for this part regardless of color. She played an amazing Olympias so yes, I think she would be great in this part. The CRA happened in the 1960s, its time to take off the black vs. white t-shirts and MOVE ON!

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  • ObaaYaa
  • EmpressDivine

    Finally someone with some sense! Too bad they’ll only ignore it because it’s not propping up their own pseudoscientific white superiority myths. I wonder how many white folks and self-hating black ppl created an account on clutch just to comment on this article. Just because modern day Egyptians look more Arab does not mean that the ones that lived thousands of years ago looked Arab considering Northern Africa was invaded and conquered several times over by groups from the north, east, and the south. That’s like saying North America has always been majority Caucasian because that’s the way it looks today. Don’t believe the hype please.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Theresa-Sutton/1165779943 Theresa Sutton

    Who cares? This is not worth wasting time on when there are so many other important issues.

  • Akai*

    Boooooo for the lack of originality because these “self-hating” accusations are way-too-typical! (giggle) …let’s try this on a 4th grade level.

    The BBC posted an article that mentioned the “…remains of the queen’s [Cleopatra's] sister, Princess Arsinoe, found in Ephesus, Turkey indicate that her [Arsinoe's] mother had an “African” skeleton.”

    A week later the BBC published another article about the recreated image and stated “the team also found that the skull and skeleton of Arsinoe may indicate that she had both European and ancient Egyptian characteristics

    What makes no “sense” is thinking or insinuating the word “African” always and automatically means dark/nappy, sub-Saharan or akin to a Sudanese Dinka. As Afrocentrists usually “ignore” that which totally disproves their ridiculous propaganda – expect nothing different in that they’ll also “ignore” the fact that the identity of these remains are presumed (unproven) and hordes of credible archaeologists disagree with Thuer.

    The BBC journalists erred in assuming most readers smart enough to know the word “African” includes Egyptians as surely as it includes Libyans, Algerians, Moroccans and Tunisians. And, anyone that’s actually seen some of the painted murals can attest to the fact that the skin tones, facial features etc. of ancient Egyptians were nowhere near those of, say, Alek Wek.

    Making “sense” means understanding the fact that skull measurements (what Hilke Thuer used) have long been discredited as an indicator of ‘race’…point, blank, period, dot!! Making “sense” means realizing Arsinoe IV was Cleopatra VII’s younger ½ sisterand they had the same father (Ptolemy XII Auletes) but different mothers.

  • howlinglove

    That is brilliant! Going ALL out of your way to hate, scoff, scorn, Black people who love Black people and their History.
    I’ll pray for you and your ilk-as usual!

  • Tim

    Come on, will you? The article you refer to reports that Princess Arsinoe’s mother had an African skeleton. For one, even if Cleopatra’s mother was 100% “Black African” (apparently this is what you assumed by the article’s mention of an “African” skeleton), that would mean that Cleopatra was 1/2 Greek & 1/2 “African” (giving Hollywood the freedom to portray the her in any shade/ethnicity). Beyond that, not only is there no proof showing that Arsinoe and Cleopatra had the same mother, if you bother to look at Cleopatra’s bust (the closest thing they had to pictures at the time), it clearly has (non-”African”) Greek features.

  • Akai*

    I’m often tickled when individuals select an article and read the comments then mount some raggedy high horse to preach about there being more important issues to discuss. It is even more hilarious when it’s laced with self-righteous arrogance trying to dictate that others should be more concerned about the melting ice caps, war in a distant land, or green eggs and ham.

    It’s hilarious because the pontificator just read the same damn article – then commented on it – themselves!

    It’s the same for these “I wish Clutch would stop featuring articles about X” type of comments — which I’ve read the founder respectfully address with the grace of a queen 1,000 times if once!

    Ah, well. Nothing to do but laugh yet, in any case, the solution remains the same and is simple: exercise personal power and don’t click on an article or read it, create one’s own spot or, maybe, join Clutch’s Reader’s Panel.

  • http://www.dendoo.wordpress.com dendoo

    I think an Indian woman should play Cleopatra. Just cause.

  • Keebo

    Yep, have no reason to see Airbender – at best I’ll see it on netflix. Hollywood just can’t seem to leave the white lead thing alone. I’m sure they could find asian actors in the whole of hollywood. The same for Angelina in A Mightly Heart. No biracial chicks in town? Then again, Mariane Pearl was a friend and Brad Pit produced the film so I guess it was okay for Jolie to put on a kinky wig for the part.

    Ah well at least it wasn’t crazy as the 50 years ago. I’m a huge classic movie fan and it’s funny to see their antics with actors in yellowface/redface and blackface – Bing Crosby, Fred Astaire, Mickey Rooney(Mr. Yunioshi/Rooney makes me cringe when I see him in Breakfast in Tiffanys, Shirley Temple, Judy Garland, Paul Muni ,Luise Rainer, David Carradine(Love him in Kung Fu but I think Bruce Lee should have played the part…at least some credit for creating the show) etc

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  • Keith

    Break a sweat and crack a history book. Alexander the Great conqured Egypt and his general Ptolemy ruled it. Cleopatra was a decendent. You are especially foolish in your smug in your total ignorance of history. Do you watch the Disney Channel too much?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jose-Michael-Cano/648728567 Jose Michael Cano

    How do you even have a job writing anything?? Looks like yet another person in this ignorant, uneducated, know nothing country needs to pick up a history book and actually know what they are talking about before they perpetuate the moronic cycle. Yeah I think King Narmer would be a good start at Egyptian history. Try googling Ptolemaic Egypt…moron

  • Blake

    THANK YOU for pointing this out. It’s still amazing to me that so many people do not realize that Cleopatra was 100% Macedonian Greek.

  • Blake

    Actually, that’s the mother of her sister, and nobody knows if it is her mother at all. Do some more research beyond one BBC article that clearly makes no definitive statements and you’ll find that historians are very unclear on who her mother really was. Couple that with the statues and likenesses made of her during her time and you’ll see that she is very clearly depicted with strong Greek features. Also, the Ptolemy dynasty, in an attempt to conform to Egyptian culture and be more accepted as their rulers, engaged in the traditional phaoronic practice of brother-sister marriage, which would keep their bloodline entirely Greek (although probably more than a little bit inbred). Even if she did have a mother with “some african skul features,” she was still clearly at least half Greek, and most-likely 3/4 Greek, and I think Angelina Jolie’s look definitely fits that mold.

  • Kate

    You people should read your history. Cleopatra was GREEK!

  • Charles McGraw

    Whats so new. I am 72 years old and I learned from history when I was 8 that
    Cleo was Greek

  • Anne B. Chicago

    I am so sick of every African American whinning and moaning when a part doesn’t go to a black actor/actress. The fact of the matter is Cleopatra was NOT AFRICAN or BLACK. Get over it!!! I’m surprised someone here hasn’t start throwing down the Affirmative Action card. This truly makes me disgusted.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Thank you Akai* for pointing out that “skull measurement” is useless. I keep saying that but people w/ afrocentric bias keep using it over and over on this website. Plus it was invented during the time of the rise of aryanism. Why would afrocentrists use such a theory except, of course, because it make them feel good. How ironic.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Hey afrocentrists for the 100th times stop using the outdated “skull measurement”. You would look like a fool in front of an antropologist. If I was one and you would be in my class I would either throw you out or give you an “F”.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    By the way EmpressDivine I am not white. I just happen to know my history. You should be known as empress moron.

  • john

    where was the outrage when eartha kitt and halle berry played the
    catwoman? where was the outrage when the honeymooners was remade with
    a black cast? nick fury originated as a Caucasian in the comic books
    yet sam jackson plays him in the movies. the character gilbert was
    also Caucasian, but when the leave it to beaver movie was cast a black
    actor played the part.
    two black actors played the title characters in white chicks
    wearing white face.
    robert conrad played jim west on the tv series the wild wild west;
    will smith played the part on film.

  • Akai*

    John wrote: “where was the outrage when eartha kitt and halle berry played the catwoman? where was the outrage when the honeymooners was remade with a black cast? nick fury originated as a Caucasian in the comic books yet sam jackson plays him in the movies. the character gilbert was also Caucasian, but when the leave it to beaver movie was cast a black actor played the part. two black actors played the title characters in white chicks wearing white face. robert conrad played jim west on the tv series the wild wild west; will smith played the part on film.”
    **********************************************************************

    Go back and re-read your response, John. Notice anything?

    Let me help you out…every last one of them was either a friggin’ fictional and/or comic book character.

    How ’bout making your point with historical figures and real humans that actually lived!?

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    What about the “Rock”(Dwaye Johnson) playing the real life white coach in “Gridiron Gang”. If a white man played Martin Luther King Jr. Afrocentrists would go berserk and riot. Op! Did I sound like a racist to afrocentrists?! Get a life.

  • john

    you are merely splitting hairs; looking for loop holes. it is the same principal. how would you feel if fictional black characters were portrayed by white actors?

  • Akai*

    That’s the only thing you can come back with but, no! I’m not “splitting hairs” and the obvious proof in that pudding is the fact that every single character you went on a tangent about is fictional.

    I’m not African American nor am I an Afrocentrist but, check it. Erroneous Eurocentrism (painting all innovative and positive individuals, occurrences or traits as white or “Caucasian”) exists just as surely as Afrocentrism does and I find both are faulty and equal sides of the same vile bigoted coin.

    It is my opinion that the basis for the occurrence of Afrocentrism (pride) was far more noble than that of Eurocentrism (evil, racism, delusions); it is also my opinion that you and Tich Tran are both immature, ignorant and silly r****t pieces of s**t!

  • john

    i was well aware all along the characters were fictional. the principal is still the same. you show our maturity very well as you resort to name calling and profanity.

  • john

    i was well aware all along the characters were fictional. the principal is still the same. you show Your maturity very well as you resort to name calling and profanity.

  • john

    i would not exactly call my initial statement a ‘tangent’, but i suppose that word serves your purpose in the drama department very well. for one who speaks of ‘noble’ intentions your actions/words here certainly are of an ignoble nature. your profanity says more of you than it does of me. it doesn’t assist in your debate nor does it help your cause. the fact that based upon two statements i made you would so very quickly jump to the conclusion that i am a ‘r****t’ also reflects more upon you than it does me. the fact that you would so quickly reach that conclusion speaks volumes. over generalization is never a wise move. perhaps you should take a little more time to get to know me before you label me. you never gave yourself the chance to get to know me or to understand me. labeling is a method which i am sure you are aware of in times past has been used to keep people separate, apart and looked down upon. also, please keep in mind that just because someone doesn’t agree with you 100% of the time doesn’t mean that they are inferior to you. you never did state your stance on white actors portraying fictional black characters. i am eager to hear your insights upon the subject. also please keep in mind that at this site: “We moderate comments and prohibit personal attacks, threats, spam, lewd images, or the promotion of your personal website.” as stated in their user agreement.

  • Julius

    Except, there is not the slightest bit of historical evidence that Cleopatra was black. This is more self-delusion on the part of the black community in the United States: the delusion that there ever was a “Golden Age” of sub-Saharan Africa and its peoples. There simply wasn’t: Black Africans contributed nothing to world culture other than cannibalism recipes throughout history. It’s only when their descendants were forcefully removed to the U.S. that they thrived, grew (somewhat) culturally, and finally contributed something to human history, Jazz in particular. Cleopatra was white. Get over it.

  • Esperance

    JUST DON’T GO SEE THE MOVIE AND THAT’S IT! THAT’S WHAT I’M GONNA DO I’LL GO SEE A BIOPIC ABOUT CLEOPATRA WHEN IT WILL BE PORTRAYED BY A BEAUTIFUL AND TALENTED BLACK WOMAN THE EQUATION IS EASY

  • john

    i simply think it is wrong to take a role of one race and give it to an actor of another race. it is wrong if the black actor loses a role of a black character to a white actor and it is wrong if a white actor loses a role of a white character to a black actor…even if the character is a work of fiction or not.

  • NuffAlready

    Cleo was neither black…nor beautiful. She was of Greek descent, and she had a nose
    like a toucan.

    Embrace truth.

  • Rail

    Hey you black mixers, it is you all who go to put your stinking blood with all ethnicities because your dicks smell equally as much as you women’s clit. Who do you think you all are? if you tell Cleopatra was black, will she be black? You don’t even call her mixed? but black which she is not. If she had black blood or middle eastern blood, it would be about a quarter but her mother was white, go read about her son and how he got his name. So stop fooling around and if you, man or woman, tough bitch or nancy boy or tranny or transexual which I wouldn’t want to know but one thing I know is that you are black and i’M SURE.

  • Burke

    First of… Cleopatra was a BLACK WOMAN. So I don’t think anyone who is not of color should play this role.

    However, should we be upset? Not at all. “Hollywood’s” been doing this [transforming black nouns into white nouns] for years, so Jolie is just following suit, and getting paid.

    We can’t blame her, if anything blame the casting director. For one, being color blind, and two, limited the many facets of Cleopatra to a sexy, pouty lip, big titty, doll.

    I’m interested to see the take on this movie.

  • sloane

    well look at all the racist ignorant f*ckheads who just had to come out to protest that cleopatra was fully white. her skeleton hasn’t been found and her race is highly disputed by many parties, so i would venture to say that she has not definitively been proven to be one ethnicity or another. but i ask this question, if no one knows for sure what the f*ck she is, why is a white woman ALWAYS the default actress to play her? that’s racist. since no one can be sure of what race cleopatra was at this point, a woman of color like keisha knight-pulliam, zoe saldana, or joy bryant could play her as well as angelina jolie and it could prove to be historically accurate.

  • NuffAlready

    Her race is NOT in dispute. It is only in dispute within circles of absolute fools who get kicks outa ridiculous racial arguments. Its in dispute within racially manipulating/manipulated circles that feel no shame in saying dumbassitees like “why is a white woman ALWAYS the default actress…that’s racist…no one can be sure of what race cleopatra was…” And before you let your skull roll off of your head, when I speak about these groups, Im not talking about a race of people. I’m talking about people of all races, who hate truth and love creating racially divisive scenarios (mostly liberals).

    The woman was not African, and she was not of Egyptian descent. She was of Greek descent. From an inbreeding family that wouldn’t mix their blood with that of any other race. These are FACTS.

    For goodness sakes you can see her image in the coins from those times. The main problem with casting Angelina isn’t that she’s white, its that shes HOT (whereas Cleo was kinda ugly).

    If you’re so concerned about appropriate casting…ask why they dont cast a Greek actress. Until then, dont be ignorant & racially insecure all your life.

  • NuffAlready

    First off…you could care less about the truth. If you were a fan of truth (instead of just wanting to “feel” right), then you would have abandoned this ridiculous theory long ago.

    Do you understand that it is not in dispute that she was the product of an inbreeding Macedonian (Greek) family. That she was NOT of African or Egyptian descent. That there’s about as much evidence of this as there is evidence that proves you are who you are. And that there’s NO evidence that she was black or “of color”. That the only people who still push the “Cleo was black” bullcrap theory are those who love to play off the racial insecurities of people in order to stir shit up and manipulate peoples emotions. Like the writer of this foolish article.

  • ceannrua

    In this day and age the best person for the job should do it. I do see your point though. I mean how many crippled folk have played FDR? Hellen Keller? Ray Charles? Can’t think of one.

  • sloane

    @nuffalready- actually her race IS in dispute, and its a VALID DISPUTE, by many notable people in the anthropogical and archaelogist communities. i don’t have to put up a bunch of links illustrating that, hell you can scroll up and click on a link to ONE OF THE MANY articles stating why they believe she may have african ancestry. you can google ALL the rest. many people believe one her grandparents was a person of color and or that her mother may have been a person of color. the coins don’t show the color of her skin and they’re coins, how detailed can they be? even if she was exceptionally european looking, she could be like a mariah carey or lena horne, who are extremely light skinned but are STILL people of color. UNTIL HER BODY IS FOUND, people have more then every right to dispute the notion the that she was solely of greek ancestry, based on the different information that has been discovered, including the compelling FACT hat her SISTER was not completely greek.

    until then don’t be ignorant and prop up white superiority like no one is going to challenge it. and btw, i’m proudly a liberal. take your ignorant ass back to fox news or something so they can continue to feed you lies and coddle your complacent dumb ass into believing that white people are the only ones who accomplished something in this world.

  • NuffAlready

    @sloane
    “she could be like a mariah carey…”-you

    Wow. You shoulda just said that. That statement speaks volumes about where your head is at.

    “…he compelling FACT hat her SISTER was not completely greek…”-you

    Wow. I know what “fact” youre referring to. And after reading how you reference it, all I can think about is that phrase, “loud and wrong”. You dont even care about how ignorant you come across. Do you have any understanding of the specifics about this so-called “fact”? That’s a rhetorical question. I know that as you are reading this, you dont know the specifics, and how ridiculous it is to present that as a “fact”, up against the mountain of evidence in the contrary. But I can see how you’d do so, because after all…you are a liberal.

    “…prop up white superiority…”-you

    A shining example of your racial insecurity, ripping at the seams. That’s if you are black. Hell, you could be your typical white liberal, on the web, working your hardest to pad up the racial divide.
    And by the way, Im not white. I just have the benefit of having escaped the progressive plantation long enough to understand that I don’t require self-aggrandizement in order to be proud or relevant. Its unnecessary.

    “…take your ignorant ass back to fox news…”-you

    How very unpredictably liberal of you. All the emotion in the argument, the false “facts”, the racist accusations, the straw man, the Fox news hate. I certainly didnt see this coming from about 100 miles away.

    “…into believing that white people are the only ones who accomplished something in this world…”-you

    Its depressing and alarming to me that you dont see the rampant racial inferiority complex which has been hammered into you by your liberal agenda, which results in completely asinine statements…like that one. I feel almost hopeless for my fellow brown & black people when I hear this kinda talk.

    Good thing my strength comes not from man, or stories of man, or accomplishments of man.

  • Akai*

    Sloane wrote: “…actually her race IS in dispute…”
    ********************************************************************

    Disputed by whom?

    Sloane wrote: “…by many notable people in the anthropogical and archaelogist communities…”
    ********************************************************************

    Then you should have no problem linking and sourcing the publications and data of all these “notable people in the anthropological and archaeologist communities.” Yeah?

    Sloane wrote: “…i don’t have to put up a bunch of links illustrating that…”
    ********************************************************************

    When someone makes a statement then refuses to link/provide something credible to substantiate the claim or are incapable of doing so…they come off desperate (looking to Egypt to find some self-esteem) and going on “I heard…”

    Sloan wrote: “…you can scroll up and click on a link to ONE OF THE MANY articles stating why they believe she may have african ancestry.”
    ********************************************************************

    See? This is where I start to question people’s ability to read and their intelligence. Were you not able to comprehend that the article which mentioned “African ancestry” was about Cleopatra’s younger sister Arsinoe? Do you not understand that they were ½ sisters with the same father but different mothers? Did you even read the article in entirety? Did you just read “African” and take off in that direction?

    There were not “many articles” provided; there were two and the 1st was in the opening article and mentioned “mixed ancestry” (which could just as easily be Greek and Asian); the 2nd provided by ObaaYaa claimed Cleopatra as “part African” (and African does does not exclude Arabs in Libya, Morocco etc.) then went on to talk about Cleo VII’s sister and discredited skull measurements.

    I’m open to growing and learning new things, so, once…just once, it would be cool if anyone that claims Cleopatra was a “black African woman” would PUT UP CREDIBLE PROOF FOR THis!

    Put up anything instead of pathetically and desperately claiming some 5,000 year old North African civilization that hadn’t a damn thang to do with African Americans whose ancestors came from West Africa.

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  • john

    where was the out cry over the karate kid remake, kojak 2005, the queen of the damned being white in the book, but played by a black actress on screen, a norse god being portrayed by a black actor? my point is a role that originated with the character being of one race should not be taken away from that race and played by an actor of anoter race even if the role is the work of fiction. it is wrong when a black actor loses the part of a black character to a white actor and it is wrong when a white actor loses the part of a white character to a black actor.

  • sloane

    @nuffalready- oh please. i brought up mariah carey and lena horne because many people know what they look like and i wanted to illustrate the point that just because someone may appear to be of a particular ethnicity doesn’t mean that they are. i was refuting your point that she appears to be european on her coins. sorry, doesn’t mean she’s definitively only greek. and i know you’re not talking about straw man arguements when out of nowhere you transparently used this topic as an opportunity to rail against liberalism, multiculturalism, and reexamining history or your diatribe ” I’m talking about people of all races, who hate truth and love creating racially divisive scenarios (mostly liberals).” get the f**k out of here.

    the compelling fact that her sister is of african descent completely torpedos your assertion that her entire family was inbred and there NO CHANCE of them being anything but greek. remember this :”The woman was not African, and she was not of Egyptian descent. She was of Greek descent. From an inbreeding family that wouldn’t mix their blood with that of any other race. These are FACTS.”

    YEA THEY MIXED THEIR BLOOD WITH ANOTHER RACE. they weren’t as inbred as you’ve tried SO HARD to assert. if her half-sister is not completely of macedonian descent, then there is a chance that CLEOPATRA was not definitively of greek descent, which was the ENTIRE point of my post. i don’t think you read my post clearly, because i was never as dumb as you are to definitively declare her to be one thing or the other. i said her ethnicity was in dispute by various people and that is valid because both sides have compelling evidence to back up their claims. i also said until we find her body we won’t know what ethhicity is, and since we don’t know, why is the default for someone to portray an important historical figure who’s race in dispute someone who is white. that is what i think is racist. the current notion that if we don’t know, just defer to a white person. i would like to see a black woman play her in a big budget film, or another person of color. hell, anyone but a white woman. it would be nice to see a person of color.

    and btw, why are you asking me if i’m black? i don’t have to validate my race with you. and i don’t need to have cleopatra be black to validate me, there are plenty of black african queens such as nzinga and tiye who’s accomplishments i look up to. i just refuse to tolerate the white washing of history. her race is in dispute and it’s valid. who’s to say it’s not? no one has a definitive answer to the question of what her ethnicity is. if we don’t know for sure then we DON’T have to defer to the same old paradigm of putting a white person on a pedestal. which is what you are trying to do. if it’s not angelina jolie, then it should be a greek? oh please. if it can be angelina jolie, then it could be a black woman.

  • sloane

    @akai- hi patronizing asshole. please don’t question my intellect when you are barely capable of reading comprehension yourself. i CLEARLY said that nuffsaid could scroll up the page and click on ONE of the many articles on the internet that assert that cleopatra may have had african ancestry. i CLEARLY told nuffsaid to google the rest. mmkay?

    and do you not understand that one of the methods people have used tried to uphold white supremacy and the idea that cleopatra was completely of macedonian greek descent was that they’ve vociferously asserted that her ENTIRE FAMILY was COMPLETELY inbred for hundreds of years? if her sister is of african descent then there IS a compelling chance that cleopatra could be too. they weren’t as inbred as people love to proclaim.

    and learn to f**king read before you trip over yourself in a rush to insult someone, because i never said cleopatra was a “black african woman”. i CLEARLY said she may be of african descent, which could include an arab egyptian or nubian. who knows? i also specifically used the term person of color to denote that while she might not totally be greek, she may not be black at all, she may be greek with some other ancestry. the ENTIRE POINT OF MY POST is that anyone is a fool to definitively say that SHE IS ONE THING OR ANOTHER UNTIL WE FIND HER REMAINS AND ARE ABLE TO EXAMINE THEM. and while her ethnicity is being highly disputed there is no reason under the sun to AGAIN defer to a white person portraying a powerful historical figure in a film.

    and please stop with the smug and asinine assumptions, pompous ass. you don’t know whether i’m black or african american. and i don’t somehow “need” cleopatra to be black to validate myself. i just think that there is room for debate and difference of opinion, until we can find her body.

    and since you don’t seem to know how to use google, here’s a few articles for you:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3792872/Elizabeth-Taylors-Cleopatra-nowhere-near-reality.html
    http://jezebel.com/5563007/renowned-egyptologist-weighs-in-on-angelina-as-cleopatra
    http://womenshistory.about.com/od/cleopatra/a/was_cleopatra_black.htm

  • lilkunta(@ julius’s stupdi racist ass)

    Your comment is such bs. Im glad no even took the bait.

    Look up Timbuktu is West Afrika. Citizens of the world came from all over to live & study because it WAS THAT GOOD!

  • lilkunta

    Perhaps have different actress portray her?
    Have Zoe be her @ 1 point,
    have Thandie beher @ 1 point,
    hhve an unknow egptian actress be her @ 1point.

    I do have problems with Anglos portraying Cleo. She wasnt fully Anglo. She WAS NOT brown eyed blue eyed, she was not stick thin. Actuallyisnt AJ too tall to be Cleo?

    I do think it was wrong for her to portray Pearl, She did blackface. That isnt cool. I think the role shoulda went to a multi ethnic actress. Im sure it was hard to find a dutch.afro cuban/chinese actress. But why not a dutch-afro actress?

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Hey sloane I looked at your links and they still bs like the discredited “skull measurement”. They still haven’t found her dna and still saying “oh well they must have mixed w/ egyptians after all these hundreds of years”. Wrong. Ever heard of incest which the Ptolemies practiced?!. Get a book.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    By the way Dr. Sally-Ann Ashton is a discredited afrocentrist. You can tell when she said that the Ptolemies mixed w/ egyptians when they clearly hated “barbarians”(a greek word since the Ptolemies were greek) and they practiced incest. Sorry Sloane you lose.

  • Akai*

    Sally Ann Ashton is not an Afrocentrist and has not been discredited. Geez!

    What Sally Ann Ashton mostly objects to is not how Cleopatra’s “race” is portrayed so much as her being stereotyped as a “European femme fatale” and “temptress who ruined two generals of Rome.”

    Any rational and intelligent being knows “race” did not exist back then as it is applied today. Family, tribe, nation etc. were important and Egyptians (as well as others) viewed Libyans, Syrians, Hyksos etc. as outsiders or different than they were. There are ancient painted mural showing different nationalities and a Nubian didn’t look a thing like an Egyptian.

    Even Ptolemy I Soter is believed by some to be Alexander the Great’s ½ brother and the son of Arsinoe (a concubine) and Phillip II the King of Macedon. Knowing Ptolemy males (as did many “rulers”) had children with concubines as well as their wives, it is my belief Cleopatra was Macedonian Greek and possibly Egyptian, Libyan or Asian but definitely not a Nubian or “black African.” I doubt Cleopatra looked even remotely like Keisha Knight-Pulliam because the chick was said by many to be fugly and Knight-Pulliam is #1) pretty and #2) dark with two AA parents and a different ‘look’.

  • Akai*

    Sloane wrote: “there are plenty of black african queens such as nzinga and tiye who’s accomplishments i look up to.
    ******************************************************************

    “Black African?” Isn’t Tiye’s father believed to be of Asiatic descent? (giggle)

    Oh, shit! On 2nd thought don’t answer that else another dumb can will be opened.

    If a movie is made about Nzinga, I suspect there will still be people wailing if she is not painted as some mother earth queen of the world. Like Cleopatra, Nzinga’s story is one of trying but – in the end – failing; there were statements made (by Africans at the time) that she practiced cannibalism and she is said to have killed her brother then killed his son.

    Nzinga just might fit the definition of what a lot of modern day ‘black power’ adherents like to call “sell out” since she gave in to “da white man’s” ways by converting to Christianity and changing her name to Dona Anna de Sousa.

  • Akai*

    Sloane all your anger and “fuckheads,” “asshole” etc. (while hilarious) are ineffective! When someone whines and accuses another of “[propping] up white superiority” and thinking “white people are the only ones who accomplished something in this world” — I’d say it’s pretty clear the person making those statements lack self-esteem and is trying to find it via claiming a 5,000 year old North African civilization of people that hadn’t a thing to do with them.

    It is not a “fact” that Cleopatra VII’s sister (Arsinoe) was “not completely Greek” since the remains found in Ephesus were never proven to be those of Arsinoe’s mother. Using skull measurements is raggedy enough (discredited) but go back and read the article you linked then share what part of “a skull which might be from a sister of Cleopatra” do you just not get? Regarding the skeleton, you do know what the word “conjecture” means, right Sloane?

    The assumption of the skeleton’s identity was based on the shape of the tomb (octagonal, like the Lighthouse of Alexandria), the timing of the death (around 20BC), the gender of the skeleton, and the age of the child at death. … Others remained less certain regarding the identification, for example, pointing out that if the body in the tomb is Arsinoë, then, given the age of the body, Arsinoë was born between 59 BC and 56 BC, making her between 8 and 11 at the time of Caesar’s arrival in Alexandria. Her actions in the brief war that followed had suggested she was someone older than that. … her date of birth was usually placed between 68 BC and 62 BC. which would have made it impossible for her to be the woman buried in the Octagon. … A writer from the London Times described the identification of the skeleton as “a triumph of conjecture over certainty”.

    A lot of people don’t seem to get it that race and ethnicity are 2 separate things but it is pretty much accepted among credible researchers, scientists etc. that 300 years of rule makes ethnic mixture more than likely. However, Cleopatra’s “race” is primarily disputed by Afrocentrists who attempt to claim her as a “black African” or Nubian and it was sparked by misinformation spread by those like J.A. Rogers (yes, the very one that wrote the idiotic The Five Negro Presidents claiming Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson etc. were black). Interesting quote from one of the links provided by Sloane:

    Unfortunately, the modern proponents of the “Black Cleopatra” theory — starting with J. A. Rogers in World’s Great Men of Color in the 1940s — have made other obvious errors in defending the thesis (Rogers is confused about who Cleopatra’s father was, for instance) and make other claims (like that her brother, whom Rogers thinks is her father, had obvious black features) without evidence. Such errors and unsubstantiated claims don’t add strength to their argument.

    The following quotes were also interesting:

    “In what’s called the “argument from silence,” many conclude from that silence that she [Cleopatra] did not have dark-colored skin. … Is there any evidence that either her mother or paternal grandmother was a black African? No. … We do have early evidence that Cleopatra was the first ruler in her family to actually speak the native Egyptian language, rather than the Greek of the Ptolemies — but that would be evidence for an Egyptian ancestry, not necessarily black African.”

  • Akai*

    Sloane all your anger and “fuckheads,” “asshole” etc. (while hilarious) are ineffective! When someone whines and accuses another of “[propping] up white superiority” and thinking “white people are the only ones who accomplished something in this world” — I’d say it’s pretty clear the person making those statements lack self-esteem and is trying to find it via claiming a 5,000 year old North African civilization of people that hadn’t a thing to do with them.

    It is not a “fact” that Cleopatra VII’s sister (Arsinoe) was “not completely Greek” since the remains found in Ephesus were never proven to be those of Arsinoe’s mother. Using skull measurements is raggedy enough (discredited) but go back and read the article you linked then share what part of the word “might” in “a skull which might be from a sister of Cleopatra” do you just not get? Regarding the skeleton, you do know what the word “conjecture” means, right Sloane?

    **********
    The assumption of the skeleton’s identity was based on the shape of the tomb (octagonal, like the Lighthouse of Alexandria), the timing of the death (around 20BC), the gender of the skeleton, and the age of the child at death. … Others remained less certain regarding the identification, for example, pointing out that if the body in the tomb is Arsinoë, then, given the age of the body, Arsinoë was born between 59 BC and 56 BC, making her between 8 and 11 at the time of Caesar’s arrival in Alexandria. Her actions in the brief war that followed had suggested she was someone older than that. … her date of birth was usually placed between 68 BC and 62 BC. which would have made it impossible for her to be the woman buried in the Octagon. … A writer from the London Times described the identification of the skeleton as “a triumph of conjecture over certainty”.
    **********

    A lot of people don’t seem to get it that race and ethnicity are 2 separate things but it is pretty much accepted among credible researchers, scientists etc. that 300 years of rule makes ethnic mixture more than likely. However, Cleopatra’s “race” is primarily disputed by Afrocentrists who attempt to claim her as a “black African” or Nubian and it was sparked by misinformation spread by those like J.A. Rogers (yes, the very one that wrote the idiotic The Five Negro Presidents claiming Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson etc. were black). Interesting quote from one of the links provided by Sloane:

    **********
    Unfortunately, the modern proponents of the “Black Cleopatra” theory — starting with J. A. Rogers in World’s Great Men of Color in the 1940s — have made other obvious errors in defending the thesis (Rogers is confused about who Cleopatra’s father was, for instance) and make other claims (like that her brother, whom Rogers thinks is her father, had obvious black features) without evidence. Such errors and unsubstantiated claims don’t add strength to their argument.
    **********

    The following quotes were also interesting:

    **********
    “In what’s called the “argument from silence,” many conclude from that silence that she [Cleopatra] did not have dark-colored skin. … Is there any evidence that either her mother or paternal grandmother was a black African? No. … We do have early evidence that Cleopatra was the first ruler in her family to actually speak the native Egyptian language, rather than the Greek of the Ptolemies — but that would be evidence for an Egyptian ancestry, not necessarily black African.”
    **********

  • Anonymous

    Your statement is so blatantly ignorant and racist and pathetic. If maintaining the false belief that Africans never contributed to world culture makes you feel better, hold on to your beliefs. If you ever want to emerge from your race bubble, I suggest a trip to your local library. There you will learn the MANY contributions that Africans have made to this world.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shermel-B-Sherman/1227960672 Shermel B. Sherman

    I dunno…I don’t really care what Angelina Jolie does. Even if she was Greek I have seen a lot of Greek people who were very tan. They probably will just tan her and make her look Algerian/Egyptian-ish.

  • MyNameIsAria

    I hate when fight over the internet. It’s just stupid. You are more than welcome to have your own opinions and discuss them like respectful adults, but once name calling starts it should stop. It’s just annoying for the rest of us to read.

  • Jack

    Agree with the most probably theory that Cleopatra was full Macedonian (from the line of Ptolemy and Berenice, both Macedonian nobility). What’s funny to me is that, talking with African students in the US, there is no love lost between AA and Africans. I’m told that Africans are looked down upon by many AA (and perhaps vice versa). How’s that for solidarity!

  • Akai*

    Well, Jack, maybe it’s like all that lovey-dovery “solidarity” that exists between whites like the Irish and British who went at it killing each other for centuries.

    Maybe it’s like that beautiful “solidarity” Germans showed other white Europeans they proceeded to bomb and kill.

    Oh, I got it…maybe it’s like the wonderful “solidary” white Serbians showed while raping and killing Bozniaks and Croats in the former Yugoslavia back in the 90′s.

    There are white Europeans that ‘look down’ on Americans as uptight and backwards and white Americans that talk as if Europeans are immoral and snobby…so don’t even try to paint this on some ‘color’ line!

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    By the way on a show w/ Zahi Hawass they were talking about the ancient eyptian builders of the pyramids, etc. Well they did a DNA and found out it match modern egyptians. Besides if you look at the murals on the pyramids they clearly don’t look black. Remember even africans don’t believe in the afrocentrism sh””t. Why the sudanese(nubians) want to be associated w/ egyptians. Even they know ancient egyptians weren’t black. Maybe some were mixed but I would say most, at least, in the north were white.

  • luxe87

    I would like to see someone of mixed ancestry like Tia or Tamera Mowry, even a younger version of Lynn Whitfield play this role. I feel that will satisfy the obviously Greek/ European features Cleopatra had but will also allow her to be seen as potentially having some African ancestry as well.

  • NuffAlready

    @SLOANE
    Well…I’m getting dangerously close to being the bigger fool here, by continuing to argue with your factually impaired self. But…Ima give it one more shot, and then leave you to your blissfully bitter ignorance. Ready? Here we go…

    SLOANE WROTE:
    “oh please. i brought up mariah carey and lena horne because many people know what they look like and i wanted to illustrate the point that just because someone may appear to be of a particular ethnicity doesn’t mean that they are. “
    MY REPLY:
    If I happen to point out that Abraham Lincoln’s face can be seen on the penny, that doesn’t mean that thats the entire case for his race. The same goes for Cleo. I never based my argument on the coin, I merely mentioned it as a nod to how compounded the ridiculousness of your argument was. So when you say “… just because someone may appear to be of a particular ethnicity doesn’t mean that they are”, I understand that you are trying to falsely frame my position (straw man), so that you can dispute it.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “i was refuting your point that she appears to be European on her coins. sorry, doesn’t mean she’s definitively only Greek. “
    MY REPLY:
    I never even used the word “European”. Why not paraphrase what I said with at least a minimum of accuracy? You see how little importance you place on important details? Sheeeeeesh.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “i know you’re not talking about straw man arguements when out of nowhere you transparently used this topic as an opportunity to rail against liberalism, multiculturalism, and reexamining history or your diatribe ” I’m talking about people of all races, who hate truth and love creating racially divisive scenarios (mostly liberals).” get the f**k out of here.“
    MY REPLY:
    Please review the definition of a straw man, then reread what I initially posted, then read the above quote of what you wrote, then cry into a pillow. If after all of that, you STILL dont understand that me “railing against liberalism” is NOT me creating a straw man (being that I did not change your stance on this debate in the slightest), then maybe you should put your head down for the remainder of class. Understand that me blaming your liberal tendencies for your racial insecurity is NOT changing the stance you take (which is that Cleo may have been black). My pointing out the likely reason for your ignorance does not in anyway edit the ignorant stance which you’ve chosen to take.
    BTW…I said nothing about “multiculturalism”. Try to follow along.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “the compelling fact that her sister is of african descent completely torpedos your assertion that her entire family was inbred“
    MY REPLY:
    I had hoped my warning would have motivated you to understand the stupidity of referring to that as “compelling fact”…but I failed. Again, I underestimated your capacity to grasp details. But I understand now. It appears that you’re starting at your desired conclusion, and working your way backwards:

    “Cleopatra could have been black & thinking otherwise makes you a racist…Now how can I arrive at this conclusion as fast as possible without being hindered by actual facts which are not distorted, guesses, conjecture, or discredited….?”-you (sorta)

    Now before you accuse me of creating a straw man, I fully understand that you NEVER said the above quote. I just imagine that it’s what’s going on inside your head.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “YEA THEY MIXED THEIR BLOOD WITH ANOTHER RACE. they weren’t as inbred as you’ve tried SO HARD to assert.”
    MY REPLY:
    Are you mainly supporting that statement with a discredited theory, based on measurements taken in the 1920s, of a skull which was lost before WWII (woops), from a skeleton found in an unmarked grave, which was never actually identified as Cleopatra’s sister? Because doing so would just be…well…foolish.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “i said her ethnicity was in dispute by various people and that is valid because both sides have compelling evidence to back up their claims.
    MY REPLY:
    Again…NO “compelling evidence” exists for her sister being of African heritage (especially black), and even less for Cleopatra being so.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “i also said until we find her body we won’t know what ethhicity is, and since we don’t know, why is the default for someone to portray an important historical figure who’s race in dispute someone who is white.
    MY REPLY:
    Well…by this brilliant analysis, theres really no reason what so ever to portray ANY historical figure as anything other than black. No matter how unlikely it is, so long as we dont have their skeleton. Screw the default position of using common sense backed by years of historical evidence.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “and btw, why are you asking me if i’m black?
    MY REPLY:
    I never asked you if you were black. Do you know that a question ends with a question mark?

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “i don’t have to validate my race with you.
    MY REPLY:
    I never asked you to validate your race, or cared if you validated your race. However you seem to have a strong need to validate yourself, to….yourself.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “and i don’t need to have cleopatra be black to validate me,
    MY REPLY:
    I’m not so sure that you truly believe that.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “i just refuse to tolerate the white washing of history.
    MY REPLY:
    Worry less about the “white washing of history”, & worry more about truth and lies…period. When the history you’re taught is based on a little white lie, the damage is the same, as when it’s based on a little black lie. So let the truth fall wherever it may, and keep moving.

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “her race is in dispute and it’s valid. who’s to say it’s not?
    MY REPLY:
    Who’s to say Abraham Lincoln wasn’t black? Hell, I cant prove his momma didn’t get down with a slave. Who could possibly say that she didn’t?! We should do DNA tests on Lincoln! I mean, other evidence might never claim that he’s half black, but like you said…who’s to say it’s not true?

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “no one has a definitive answer to the question of what her ethnicity is…”
    MY REPLY:
    There is a definitive answer. It just doesn’t allow you to conclude what you would like to conclude. But HEY…maybe one day we can have VIN DIESEL playing Lincoln. Since many people know him. You know, as a compromise. A slight nod to “people of color”, regardless of whether it’s accurate. (*if you notice an increasing silliness about my replies, it’s simply to reflect how you come across, to give you an idea)

    ***************************************************************
    SLOANE WROTE:
    “…we don’t know for sure then we DON’T have to defer to the same old paradigm of putting a white person on a pedestal. which is what you are trying to do.”
    MY REPLY:
    Im trying to put white people on a pedestal huh? The only time I can think of that I literally wanted to see a white woman on a pedestal, was back in my strip clubbing days. And even then, it was just to get a better view. But hey, if it makes you feel any better…she probably had a black chicks ass. ;-]

    Peace Sloane. We’ll just have to disagree. I’ve taken pretty uninformed stances myself at times. So I’m no better than you.

  • belle

    Forget Cleopatra I have been waiting to see which white people they will get to play Nefertiti, Queen of Sheba, or even the Ming Dynasty. Im sure Hollywood will find a way to make a buck, i’m sure they would just change history a bit “texas” style then we’ll never know the difference. ;)

  • Akai*

    Belle wrote: “Forget Cleopatra I have been waiting to see which white people they will get to play Nefertiti, Queen of Sheba…”
    ***************************************************************

    As far as Nikhaule or Makeda (the Queen of Sheba)…

    In 1995 Showtime released Solomon and Sheba with Halle Berry as Nikhaule and Jimmy Smits playing King Solomon.

    There was also the movie Solomon in 1997 where Vivica Fox was Makeda and Ben Cross played Solomon.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    By the way afrocentrists, I will say it again, why would you claim a white colonizer like cleopatra as your own kind. Oh I forgot she must either be black or mixed. Stupid. May you guys should admire afrikaners 100 years from now and said they also were black or white. See how stupid you guys look. Read a history book about the way the Ptolomies treated egyptians and nubians. In fact there was even a nubian revolt during cleopatra’s time. Yep the same cleopatra that angelina jolie is playing. Personally I prefer the half greek jennifer aniston for this movie. Who knows maybe if there was ever a tv show about cleopatra aniston will get the role.

  • michelle

    Rob on June 7th is correct she is Macedonian/Greek, any strong, sensual actress that could pull off “exotic” (because she was the queen of Egypt) could play her, also keep in mind, she wasn’t the only Cleopatra, her mother was Cleopatra V, her daughter Cleopatra Selene

  • nataly

    CLEEOPATRA WAS GREEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THATS IT!!! DEMM AM NOT RACIST OR ANYTHING BUT THATZ THE TRUTH.. SHE WASENT EVEN BORN IN EGYPT SOO WATZ THE DEAL!!!

  • Papa Smurf

    The Ptolemy dynasty was GREEK, for God’s sake! People, learn some history!

  • RC

    She was Greek. This was supported by the documentation and historical accounts. Egyptian Wall paintings did not fail to reflect someone’s color at that time.
    And with the constant propaganda campaign generated by Octavian, color was never brought up once or discussed.
    There are OTHER African queens. If you want African queens what of Kandace of the Menroe (who kicked Ocatvian’s ass). What of Zenobia? The reason we are so worried about cleopatra is that the KANDACE and ZENOBIA did not have major movies made about them. Forget cleopatra, let’s make a movie about these two.

  • Ikilledcherylcole&bombedBET

    ‘She was Greek. This was supported by the documentation and historical accounts.’
    documented by white historians who had problems believing that people in Kemet (egypt) were black at all because they thought that black people would not be capable of building pyramids. White people shot the nose of the sphinx because it did not look like a european nose.

    Cleopatra was black don’t let white racist historians fool you, I believe she had african ancestry.

    If wall paintings didnt reflect peoples colour why didnt any of them depict white people?
    why are they all a shade of brown? what do you want them to have done?….take a polaroid and leave it in the tomb?

    Elizabeth Taylors appearance in the 1960′s film Cleopatra gives the impression that Cleopatra was white skinned like the English actress who played her, only now evidence shows something else entirely with her African roots an area needing development in the 2000 year old story that is Cleopatra. Saying that she was Africa is something that is true,and seeing her pictures etched in stone, buttressed the fact that she is of African origin. The discovery of her bust, listed in the picture gallery and her limestone stela, attest to the fact of her African origins

    History has been whitewashed

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    Ikilledcherylcole&bombedBET: I believe she had black ancestry. HA! HA! HIstory is not about belief but proof you moron. What next a black Jesus?! Even though he was a jew(ethnic hebrew tribe of judah) and look something like a aremenian, assyrian, or arab. OH I forgot even afrocentrists already did claim that and also the moors being black. What a joke.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    If ancient egyptians were black Ikilledcherylcole&bombedBET then what about the dna linking them to modern eyptians(as shown on a show w/ zahi hawass) and what about the copts who look just like modern egyptians. Even though they are the closet thing to ancient egyptians.

  • http://[email protected] tich tran

    There is even afrocentrists claiming Septimus Severus as black even though he was part roman and part punic(phoenician as in hannibal barca). Now afrocentrists get to have Heimdall played by a black man. You guys are pathetic. Even most africans are laughing at you.

  • bertrand

    yes she was black!! Now the question is where are all the black hollywood actress’s to portray her? If it was REALLY important to us, then there is enough heavy hitters in black hollywood to greenlight the movie and get it done!!! It’s all economics people!!!Personally I’m not mad at her!! its a smart business move. Lets get over this one and give them something they don’t see coming!!!

  • Ikilledcherylcole&bombedBET

    Egypt is in a place called Africa
    and egypt was called Kemet at the time when Cleopatra lived meaning ‘land of the Black’

    white people only come from europe.

    Egypt and other north african countries were invaded by arabs who brought islam with them way after ancient egyptian empire fell.
    Arabs did not rule Kemet

    if jesus existed he wouldnt have been white because he was not european- white people come from europe and hadnt gone around stealing other peoples land yet. jesus if he existed was born in bethlehem, bethlehem is so close to Africa that it is almost a part of it.

    the Moorish people (or blackamoors were north african muslims) i would say that the moorish were mixed raced Black and arab.

    Every wall painting the egyptians did depicted Black people how many more signifiers do people need.

    Racism prevents this part of Africa being seen as African and Black which is ridculous.
    Cleopatra was a African queen and I think that tey should portray her as such,
    they would never cast Angela Bassett as Queen Elizabeth I of England.

    and whilst their at it they should do a film on Queen Nefertiti too oh and Queen Nefertari

  • Ikilledcherylcole&bombedBET

    All of those white depictions of Cleopatra and Kemet (ancient Egypt) on film make me sick,
    they need to have a black flim director to direct the new film too.
    I’m sick of white people depicting Black people in such a crap light historically and in contemporary culture…as if Black people/ people of African descent have nothing to be proud of.

    Elizabeth taylor, angelina Jolie and those other bitches being depicted as Cleopatra takes the biscuit, its just balderdash!

  • Jencendiary

    Cleopatra was a descendant of the Ptolemy dynasty — a Macedonian Greek family who took over Egypt after Alexander the Great died and left his empire all willy-nilly with no heir.

    So, not black. But probably of darker skin than Angelina Jolile.

  • Ikilledcherylcole&bombedBET

    furthermore Greeks are mixed raced they are mixed with black Africans

  • http://www.blaqvixenbeauty.com BlaqVixenBeauty

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Iman cast as Cleopatra even if she does reminds me of Nefertiti…

  • tired

    I’m black and I’m tired of hearing all the whining about who plays who in a movie why don’t we start caring about something that actually matters?

  • African Mami

    @tired,

    It matters, the lack of minority representation goes along way. Our children need to know that there is a place and space for them as burgeoning actors and actresses with their eyes set on making it big in Hollywood. It matters, it really does!

    With that said, my girl Kimberly Elise should have been given that role!!!!!!!! She is fiiiyah.

  • anon YMUS

    —DON’T fall for the latest ‘race issue’ distraction set-up. It’s for slaves.

    PAY ATTENTION and observe how this latest soft-porn retread is used
    to predictive program ‘suicide culture’ into our mainstream via emotive
    sequencing.

    Just as Oprah, media and movies installed extermination of the unborn
    as an acceptable, even mundane facet of mainstream culture decades
    ago via emotive sequencing around the subject —so Jolie, like Hilary Swank
    etc. are being used to bring in ‘suicide culture’.

    It’s what the globalist eugenics agenda calls for. Now that the unborn are
    eiminated, and as sterilizing programs are well underway —-YOU-genocide
    is clearly next.

    Extermination, via soft-kill and incremental elimination is set to exterminate
    90% of the human race by 2100.

    It’s in their open agenda. Rockefellers, Gates, Turner, Maurice Strong
    the UN, Soros —-Oprah

    CHECK IT OUT before you submit to this latest ‘RED China state values’
    snuff film indoctrination…

  • KIYA SMITH

    Ancient Egypt was a Nubian Nation and Kingdom. Scientific evidence has already been proven thousands of years ago. Many artififacts that have been unearthed have beautiful and breathtaken Negroid features. People have tried to erase the Nubian Negroid features by defacing statues, monuments, pictures and artifacts. They haven stolen and obliterated many authentic ancient pieces in hopes of denying Black people of their true ancestral history. So yes, Cleopatra was Nubian. Historic evidence is there and African Nubian people must continue to research and fight for the truth of their true history and identity. African Americans are decendents of African Kings and Queens. Own it, embrace it and show it. People who knew the truth back then and they know it now. The orginal peoples of Ancient Egypt were Nubian people.

  • akillucero

    When will you all learn White People Have no history, It was the Egyptians Who taught the Greeks how to speak. Greek is nothing but the fundamental afrikan Language, They didn’t have a language, and yet again, They speak nothing of the tru pharoahs that reigned dynasties way before Cleo. She was a sellout (no disrespect to my ancestors) but just a uncle tom, Isis, Akhenatan, Imhotep, Amenemhat, All egyptian philosophers, The reason so many white ppl have so much to say is because Black Americans can’t and wont speak for themselves of their history that they don’t know. White ppl ALWAYS try to tear the black man down, have you ever wondered why?? maybe because they are intimidated and inferior of him, he’s strong without conscious, emotionally, physically and spiritually, he doesn’t have to try he just does it, although he Fu**s up sometime you’d rather give him credit than another man, you hate to love him, and love to hate him white ppl, this world is so screwed up the only thing that would help is for all man to just be wiped clean, start over, anew (white ppl just vanishh) would make the world a better place, if they knew how much damage to so many races, they have caused young and old, their time is here, and they know it. Their creative senses, (like they ever had any) has went away, here we go again same movies, same shit, different day, WAKE UP! people C’mon this is old, news and it goes in circles as long as you let it, how long hu?? well my moms cooking dinner and it’s dinner time. Ke se ra se ra!

    p.s. WHITE JESUS! HA!!!! have they even found any evidence he existed??? gtg.

  • http://yahoo.com Anonymous

    This is so silly. I can see someone with Kim Kardashian’s looks or even Kim Kardashain being a better Cleopatra than Angelina.

  • tyqwan

    to be honest i think haile barry would make a a better a better cleoparta cause she black plus she a great act not saying joile isnt but it time to show some diversity

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