“Is She Even Black?”
Zoe Saldana, Amber Rose, Sessilee Lopez. These are women who identify themselves as Black, but, for many of us, the question that follows them in the context of Black culture, fashion, and beauty is, “Is she even Black?” The tenor of an accent, and the textures of their hair, often propels questions regarding whether these women belong in the context of Black cultural commentary.
It is, moreover, because some of these women are not African American that we are moved to question the validity of their Blackness. Is there no room in Black conversation for Zoe Saldana from New York/Dominican Republic?
Why does the mention of Amber Rose or Rosario Dawson get under our skin? Why do these women fall short on our Black authenticity measuring stick?
We are quick to call a White person to task when they stereotype or make sweeping generalizations about Black people, but why does it seem to be okay for some Black people to impose rigid definitions of Blackness upon ourselves?
Last week, we featured Amber Rose as the “Look of the Day” on our new fashion and beauty site Coco and Crème. Let’s just say our recognition of Amber’s salmon colored sweater dress received more than its share of abomination. One reader said, “I don’t understand why she’s celebrated at all, especially by Black women.” Another reader agreed, commenting, “I just don’t understand why sites like this (Coco and Crème) are obsessed with a woman who doesn’t project anything positive and doesn’t have anything to do with Black culture other than sleeping with Black men.”
Whoa. I guess we didn’t get the memo that acknowledging someone’s style choices makes them the woman of the year. We liked her look, plain and simple.
Amber Rose has become one of the most contentious and ambiguous female bodies in America. Aside from her alleged gold-digging rise to the top thanks to Kanye West, there is an undercurrent (or not so below the surface) query around Amber’s racial makeup.
According to the model’s Wikipedia page, her father is from Barbados and is of Italian descent, and her mother is of Cape Verdean descent. Cape Verde is a formerly colonized island off the coast of West Africa whose population generally consists of creoles mixed with Black African, and European descent. Amber was born in America and reps her city hard. I think it’s safe to assume Amber Rose is a mixed American girl from Philly. If we’re not questioning Halle Berry’s Blackness, why question Amber Rose?
There’s something to be said about our racial placement of Zoe Saldana outside of her largely Black female film roles. Many of us get a kick out of keeping her in an exclusive, no exit, Latina territory. “Is she even Black?” one reader slammed, even though the rising actress has repeatedly laid claim to her Afro-Latina background. The “Avatar ” star has been vocal about the difficulties faced by actresses of color in Hollywood, and she was the cover of the April issue of Essence magazine. Yet somehow, there’s this odd expectation for Saldana to choose. “Does she want to be Latina or Black?” one reader wrote. Zoe Saldana was born to a Dominican father and a Puerto Rican mother. Her cocoa skin looks like yours and mine, why is that not enough?
La La Vazquez spoke out about America’s ignorance of dark-skin Latinos. La La wrote an essay for Latina magazine asking, “Since when does being Black and being Latina have to be mutually exclusive?” The popular VJ continued, “For me, not looking like some people’s idea of a typical Latina has been challenging and often painful. I constantly find myself trying to justify who I am, and why should I?”
Our rampant cultural categorizations can distance the very women we claim to embrace—while we can often exclude some of these women from “pure uninterrupted Blackness” just because we don’t agree with their behavior.
In a so-called “post-racial America,” why are we still caught up in the often insignificant nuances of Blackness?
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The Majority of The Women That Have Been Mentioned Are Mixed. Why Do You Have To Be Either WHITE or BLACK? I Don’t Get It. Someone? Anybody
Because black won’t let the one-drop rule die. Whites let them claim both and will say so in their news media. Not blacks, because if we can’t find and excuse to call them black then we wont have an excuse to ride off of their coattails anymore. Zoe is clearly bi-racial and Amber and Kat Stacks aren’t even black. We can’t use the culture excuse on Zoe because she is clearly Dominican-American by culture, and blood not “African-American”.
I don’t think the readers critisizing the Amber Rose article were getting at the fact that she’s a mixed black women- it was probably more so the fact that she’s done nothing really to have attained the “celebrity” she’s got. As far as attacking our sisters for their mixed heritage, I don’t see many of us yelling because President Obama’s mixed. Anyone who questions the “blackness” of a black-latino should probably do a bit more reading as history will tell we are one and the same.
“Dark skinned girls don’t choose to be black either”
Yes they do. They are merely someone with a darker skin tone. Black is a BS label. If they want it they can have it an perpetuate it.
Just like a person with lighter skin could be called White. It’s just a BS label.
Okay, I really think that the author of this article is missing the point, and I strongly agree with the first commentor. These women are MIXED and have the opportunity to flirt with either side of what they are mixed with. Whether we ourselves painted the picture of what a black woman looks like, or society has architectured it for us, the average black woman is not a Zoe or an Amber. Just stop the nonsense. And these women also didn’t make their rise to fame on the pedistal that they were black. I dont have any contention or abundance of fondness for any of the women that you mentioned. Shucks, had it not been for the media idolizing them for everything they are ASIDE FROM BEING BLACK, i wouldn’t even know them. They are mixed. End of discussion…
As an Afro Puerto Rican, I am Black. I will always be Black. Why? Because God made me this way. Many of my family members (who most look just like me) consider themselves Latino/Hispanic or Afro Latino. Even among us Latin folks there is a division of opinion.
Blackness can’t be measured. Its a part of who you are. Enough said. <3
“As an Afro Puerto Rican, I am Black.”
This statement makes no sense. You act as if there’s some line. You’re probably light brown. Do you really need to label yourself?
Ok ok, let me try.
As a German, Ukrainian US mix, I’m Black.
Ooohhh that’s fun.
@Doodie: Let me clarify what I believe Erika was trying to get at…
She’s Black & Puerto Rican & I’m Black & Italian aka Black & White. Being mixed was never as trendy, popular or clarified as it is now.
The fact of the matter is, when we had to identify our Race growing up in school, nobody had EVER confused me with a White girl & I damn sure wasn’t simply an “Other”, like an alien. So I chose Black & have identified myself as such. I have embraced my Italian side, absolutely…but with a Black Militant Father, I knew I was Black before I was anything else.
Unless you yourself are mixed (which, since I don’t know, I won’t attempt to guess), it’s hard for you to really understand why we may identify more with our “dominant” race, which, for most of us, is Black. And I feel that, in some ways, I’m “Blacker” than my darkskinned colleagues just because of my beliefs & how hard I defend the Black community, which I primarily identify with. I will never shame the other side of me, but nobody will EVER tell me that I’m NOT Black.
Jaz wrote: “…it’s hard for you to really understand why we may identify more with our “dominant” race, which, for most of us, is Black.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t know if you’ve any experience around a lot of – or with groups for those of – mixed-race, but this is simply not what I’ve observed. Respectfully, I think speaking only for yourself and being a little more careful when generalizing about the identity-leanings of “most” is in order.
Maybe your perspective is limited to America/ns but, even there, this has not been my take and I know for a fact this is not the case throughout Latin America. This is not 1950 or 1970 and, even in America, more and more children of mixed race are being raised by both parents (and both sides of our parents’ families) and neither the identity or socialization is as simple or clear-cut as you are proposing…additionally it leaves out the reality of the hordes of those who look so ambiguous others don’t know they’ve African blood unless/until we tell you!
http://clutchmagonline.com/newsgossipinfo/zoe-saldana-is-the-new-face-of-calvin-klein/
I *may* have started this dialouge on the Zoe posing for Calvin Klein article. And for what it’s worth I’m glad I did. Even if its only purpose was to highlight the EXISTENCE of the Afro-Latino. It’s beyond my understanding why we haven’t taken people of mixed race to help us bridge the gap. Why must we decide to pick one Black or Latino or White. Why must institutionalized segregationism still influence how we view race and culture today? My hope is one day, some day, well beyond my lifetime the world will cross-pollinate to the degree that there will be only once race…us. For now I hope people who stand in the middle continue to speak up and challenge everyone’s thinking. Eventually (I hope) we all will realize its no big deal and we are much more alike than we are different but we should never denigrated or ignore each differences. But we HAVE TO talk about it if we will ever get there. I’ll even offer my bio to keep the dialouge going. Do with it what you will….
I’m a first gen Dominican-American. I choose to identify and Afro-Latino. The majority of my friends are Afro-Caribbean/West Indian. My long time boyfriend is an African-American HBCU and Ivy League educated doctor. I went to NYU and I work in an Investment Bank in NYC. I pledged a historically African-American Sorority (that’s right, not a Latino one). I speak Spanish fluently. I wear my natural (kinky-fro). I have tan colored skin. I’m a member of both the Black and Latino Networks at work. I’m from the Bronx. I read Clutch & Jet magazine more than I read Latina magazine. I’m a Democrat. I’m pro-immigration and I think African & European travel should be encouraged to American students. I consider myself a woman of color. I don’t claim the term, read carefully the TERM, Black because neither I nor my family was in America to witness or took part in American Civil Rights movements (they were still in DR) and the TERM Black is one the last iterations of PC terms to identify African-Americans especially in the media. However, I am proud of my blackness! I appreciate both my African and European ancestry and staunch promoter and lover of all things Dominican. If I marry and have babies with my BF, my kids will African-Dominican-American. They will speak Spanish & English and Martin Luther King Jr, Barak Obama, Junot Diaz, & Leonel Fernandez will be their heroes.
Clutch if you want to continue this dialouge in person, recorded and shared online. I will be there with bells on. Thanks everyone for commenting and keeping this alive.
this is soooo dumb, zoe s is black and… there’s only three options, black like from Africa, white from like europe and asian everywhere else. whether she chooses to acknowlege her roots or not changes not the fact. unless you look like a yoruba, ibo or east or central African you r mixed, and africans would tell you so so stop trippin. most ppl want to get ahead, and shes aware that in America an other you dont being blk.
“there’s only three options, black like from Africa, white from like europe and asian everywhere else”
This might be the most ignorant comment yest on the board. Line drawers like you are these reason we have so many issues. There’s an infinite spectrum colors and looks.
[...] back in 2004 Clutch Magazine posted an article recently entitled “Is She Even Black?” in reference to black Latina actresses, models and status climbers like Zoe Saldana, Amber Rose and … I’ve often heard black people gripe about Saldana in particular (also Rosario Dawson), [...]
@Jaz
You are not identifying with your “dominant” race, you are identifying with your SUBORDINATE RACE. There is no such thing as “black” bi-racials. Please stop acting like the black folks ice is colder. It is not, and you are not helping by keeping up this racist legacy by calling yourself “black”. Why disrespect on of your parents by acting as if their blood does not run through your veins? This is the disgusting mentality that the hypo-descendant rule has left in the American society. Most bi-racial women identify as black because they are a big fish a in a little pond instead of the other way around in white society. Socially speaking black women are no competition for you, and blacks fawn all over you. So why be a part of white society where you will be at the bottom? That is why you, and any person with even a drop of black blood choose to be “black”. Not to mention there have been a few books written on the subject of how people of mixed race will always have more opportunity than their subordinate race. It’s sickening. We should be remedying the problem. I don’t need you to be “black” for me. I don’t need you to represent me. I can do that myself, and I have been trying to do that. People like you get in the way, and take the spotlight while whites are so happy to see their bi-racial spawn come out on top of blacks. That is not progress especially for black women. It’s just another racist reminder from you that whiter is better. We need to start addressing this bull-ish instead of acting like we are all “black”. Stop acting like we should be kumbaya-ing when “black women” have never been part of that media or social, or marriage equation to begin with. They don’t exist….Because of you taking a spot that isn’t yours. Why would you want another woman’s stolen crown? Lena Horne, Mariah Carey, Paula Patton, and Jennifer Beals types never helped our situation, but made it worse nor have I ever seen them address the issue of why most “black” women in the media look like them instead of the dark-skinned majority. If they did they wouldn’t have a job. They have shown time and time again that their careers are more important. No one is brave enough to say that because they don’t want to cause dissent due to “groupthink”.
http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2008/12/self-determination-part-1-my-dark.html
Be what God made you. Bi-racial. White people don’t deserve a pedestal stop putting them on one.
Waaahaahaaha. “Stolen crown?” That mess again? I always laugh my @ss off when people link to Khadija, Halima or Evia’s spots and Jam Donaldson said it best with: “The bitter black women wing of the blogosphere is so tired. They all just need to get laid. Outrage-obsessed black women are sooooo 20th century.”
There’s a reason bird’s chirp at those echo chambers and there is little participation; in addition to being angry, bitter, jealous and, often, flat out racist…those females are psychotic and like Kola Boof’s crackhead-acting behind.
But I do suggest reading if in need of a few good laughs as Khadija (Muslim Bushido), especially, has gone on endless rants foaming at the mouth over BM who date or marry light and/or biracial chicks, Elijah Muhammad’s light conquests, his son Ishmael having a Mexican wife, or tossing shade about the relationships some other “black nationalist,” athlete, rapper or white male celebrity has/d with biracial, light or white females — yet she and her ignorant sycophants have the nerve to act like their love/relationship with a white or non-black male was entered into for the ‘right reasons’ and more pure, honest and untainted than the love of any BM/WW couple. …anyone that concerned with the relationships of others has major issues, back issues and subscriptions.
These chicks have a need to cut other groups down in order to try to elevate themselves and pretend to be so confident, self-loving and blah blah but their insecurity is so thick it’s ridiculous — in particular their delusional statements insinuating all WM open to IRR primarily prefer nappy, dark skin chicks with wide noses and big lips (a cursory look around and even the pictures of BW/WM couples on Evia’s own site reveals this to be untrue).
All of them advocate for BW to date and/or marry WM when they should consider sterilization and never coming within 10 feet of birthing a biracial child. Why? Because – heaven forbid – any of them give birth to the light-skinned, ambiguous-looking, light-eyed, curly and straight haired types they love to vilify and excoriate on the regular and God help those babies. They’re angry at BM, light and mixed women, white women, you name it and — unless and until these harpies clear their hearts, address their issues, and quit playing the never-ending victim blaming innocent individuals who’ve done nothing to them — these Mommie Dearests will verbally and physically abuse or take out all their jealousy and anger on their mixed children; this is clear in the very words they write which reveal intense issues and anger at “straighter, finer-featured, lighter, brighter” (their words) females.
How does one harbor such disdain for “hair flinging” (yep, their words again) light and biracial chicks then purposely enter relationships with WM (over their disappointment with life and BM) when it ups the likelihood of birthing a “hair flinging” light and biracial child — the very type of female all of them blame for everything, hate, speak so recklessly about, harbor such disdain for and appear jealous of?
What are these troubled BW going to tell their mixed-looking biracial daughters? That it is wrong for a black or any man to ask them out or call them pretty? That they should be self-effacing, take a back seat to dark BW and coddle and excuse any of their anger and bad behavior? Are they gonna guilt-trip the little girls – though they’re the ones that chose to conceive a child who’d no control over their features – if they happen to come out looking more like their white fathers? …pure insanity!
A biracial child is both and neither solely one or the other; when raised by both parents we usually accurately identify “biracial,” so will these BW try to work out their own racial issues at the expense of their child’s psyche and peace of mind or bully them into identifying as “black” for their own selfish satisfaction? …nah…their shtick is pure craziness and there is no ‘sanity’ or ‘serenity’ in their rhetoric!
My advice to biracial children is…eschew the crap of ignorant haters like Halima et al; never be self-effacing, live in honesty and be compassionate but stand your ground, take no one’s bullsh!t, and never position yourself behind anyone!!!
[...] ‘Is She Even Black?’ (clutchmagonline.com) [...]
@Akai
If they were soo wrong they wouldn’t have soo many followers. So keep ignoring the NUMBERS, and act as if we are all honky-dory. Keep doing that. Keep ignoring the numerous black women who have grown a backbone and spoken out. Denial is such an incredibly stupefying thing. By they way all bloggers have previously clarified how they are raising their children. Apparently you never read their blogs, and are just going by hearsay. Doh!
Jennifer Beals is biracial, Mom is Irish American and Dad was African-American, died was she was 9yo, AND she identifies as biracial, not black or white. This is as it should be, however, she has always been vilified by the African-American community. Why is that? Because she wouldn’t call herself soley BLACK?
I’m not African-American, but African-Caribbean, and have never been able to understand America’s obsession with color. Where I grew up, mixed children are everywhere and a normal part of the landscape. Well, actually, most every black person is mixed in someway, at least in the Caribbean, not so much Haiti. Yes, I guess I can speak this way because I’m descended from a mixed heritage in recent times, but that has no bearing on what the world sees me as. Regardless of who my grandparents were, my skin falls in the brown spectrum and I am black.
In American, if you look black, then you are. If you identify as black, then you are. It’s only in recent times has the label “biracial” come into vogue and is now being accepted as another racial designation. I say allow those who ARE biracial and WANT to identify as such to do so. It’s what they feel most comfortable as. At least these people aren’t trying to “pass” and are giving both sides of their racial heritage due respect.
Therefore, why doesn’t the black community get over these color hang-ups and just accept people for who they identify as, black or biracial. Jennifer Beals never tried to “pass”, though she was accused of it because she wasn’t raising the “black power” flag either, but claiming biraciality.
I think black people forget that being “black” can run a spectrum from ivory to ebony due to genetics and our history of mixing, whether freely or forced. Whereas a Caucasian is designated white….unless s(he) has a “drop of black blood” and then s(he) is not (based on archaic, racist rules). Maybe our perceptions of what designates “black” or “white” needs to change or just get rid of these labels altogether. Just a thought…..
There ARE only three original races, indeed: Negroid, Caucasoid, and Asiatic. Henry Louis Gates, Jr who wrote the book, “FACES OF AMERICA” as well as hosted the series on PBS, states the above and goes into the history of race and genetics. I think a large portion of the people on this board need to research race and genetics before they speak of that which they know not.
Subsequently, Middle-Easterners, Jews, Native Americans, Indians, Egyptians, and other subgroups ARE simply off-shoots of the original races. Hence, if one is being scientifically accurate, a Lebanese person with no African genetic composite, would be considered Caucasoid or European. As a matter of fact, most Middle-Easterners, scientifically, are Caucasoid/European in genetic makeup (unless they also have some African genetics as well).
This all goes back to the origins of the true original races: Negroid, Asiatic, Caucasoid. So people get with the proper designation if one is going to be petty and “break it down”. For example, most “black” people are a mix of negroid and caucasoid. What percentages (can be elucidated with a genetic admixture test) depends on familial history of mixing, whether freely or forced (slavery).
This obsession with “labeling” people only perpetuates prejudice, discrimination, and division. Can’t we just accept people for who they are and not WHAT they are? However, I am intelligent enough to realize, in this day and age, this is not likely to happen. People today are STILL just not evolved enough. Maybe 100 years from now the different races won’t even exist and we’ll all just be human (wishful thinking).
I am biracial — my mother is Caucasian, my father is African-American. I feel very passionate about this issue. I get so angry when other biracial people call themselves *just* one race or another. Hallie Berry is NOT black, Barack Obama is NOT black, Mariah Carey is NOT black. They are biracial, regardless of how they present themselves to society.
To present yourself as exclusively black, if you are biracial, is disrespectful to half of your heritage. I’m not particularly close to my father, and I was raised by my white family. Despite those facts, to say that I was *just* black would be a lie.
I have never felt the pressure to “choose” between my races. You are what you are. If telling yourself you’re black makes you feel better, that’s a psychological issue. But not amount of words is going to change your genetic make-up.
OMG,Belle. THANK YOU. Is this not the most ignorant commentary you’ve ever seen? People, get off your block, out of your little American bubble, travel the world, read a book, talk to your neighbors, get rid of your racist notions about biracial-being-better, and your brainwashed racists notions about what some label as “pretty” as being racially different from Black (just because white people says she’s cute doesn’t change her race and Black/African heritage), and then you’ll come to understand that BLACK PEOPLE EXIST ALL THROUGHOUT THE AMERICAS – like La La, like Alphonso Ribiero (“Carlton” from the Fresh Prince) , like Zoe, like Celia Cruz, like Sammy Sosa (no matter how much skin lighteners and hair straighteners he uses), and like so many others.
And also stop being hypocrites – we straighten our hair, some of us lighten our skin, wear colored contacts, and range naturally from extremely light to extremely dark with kinky to straight hair textures, and it DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT WE ARE BLACK/AFRICAN DESCENDED.
So please get off of zoe’s back – OMG Americans are daft! I know understand why this country lags behind most others in education.
here’s the thing. Latina is NOT a race. When we fill anything out we can only say that is our ethnicity. Therefore we have to identify with black or white as our race. Clearly for some of us we have more African features and would therefore identify as black. Those with more European features would identify as white. I don’t understand why we have to be so divisive, we are all people of color. If someone saw me walking down the street first guess is that I’m black. We get crap for denying black heritage (which makes sense to me) and now we are getting crap for embracing it as well?? What type of ridiculousness is that?? We (Latinas, Black women, and other women of color) all have enough white people that dislike us so I don’t think we need to really be discussing what makes someone black or not. How do you even have those kinds of cut offs? “O your hair curls just a tiny bit more than mine so your not black.” Man get all that crazy stuff out of here and embrace each other!
I think a lot of people don’t know the meaning of Latina. it’s actually not a race of ethic group.
The term “Latino” was officially adopted in 1997 by the United States Government in the ethnonym “Hispanic or Latino”, which replaced the single term “Hispanic”: “Because regional usage of the terms differs – Hispanic is commonly used in the eastern portion of the United States, whereas Latino is commonly used in the western portion.
U.S. official use of the term “Hispanic” has its origins in the 1970 census. The Census Bureau attempted to identify all Hispanics by use of the following criteria in sampled sets:
Spanish speakers and persons belonging to a household where Spanish was spoken
Persons with Spanish heritage by birth location
Persons who self-identify with Spanish ancestry or descent
Neither “Hispanic” nor “Latino” refers to a race, as a person of Latino/Hispanic ethnicity can be of any race.[6][9] Like non-Latinos, a Latino can be of any race or combination of races: White/Caucasian, Black/African American, Asian, Native American, Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander American, or Two or more races.
Although as officially defined in the United States, “Latino” does not include Brazilian Americans,and specifically refers to “Spanish culture or origin”, some of the dictionary definitions may include Brazilian Americans and/or Brazilian people in general. Also, since Hispanic or Latino origin is, like race, a matter of self-identification, any Brazilian American wishing to do can presumably report as being Hispanic or Latino. However, the Brazilian American group is not included with Hispanics and Latinos in the government’s population reports.
Some authorities of American English maintain a distinction between the terms “Hispanic” and “Latino”:
People please learn your history! Simply, because somebody is latino/a doesn’t mean they can’t be black too hence the phrase “Black Latino/a or Afro Latino/a” the “afro” in “afro-latino” is the same as the “African” in “African- American” or “Afro-American”. We all are of African descent, our ancestors just got dropped off in different places during the slave trade. Some were brought to America, others to South America and the Caribbean. So no matter it be a Latina woman in Colombia or an American woman living in New Jersey, they are both black, they both derived from Africa just as every other person on this planet. Hail to the motherland! :)