Over the years, Black women’s magazines have captured our hearts with stories specifically constructed by writers who understand our complexity and diversity. From relationships to finances to tips on living our best lives, Black women have found solace in publications dedicated to providing resourceful, entertaining, thought-provoking information as they turn the glossy pages or click from article to article.

Periodically, in the same publications branded to represent Black women, articles are devoted to Black men. It is not unusual that the opposite sex would be written about in any women’s magazine. But the objection that some Black women’s magazines receive for covering brothers can be brutal.

CLUTCH is not exempt from its share of commenters expressing sentiments of discontent whenever an article is published that focuses on brothers. Even if the message is laced in positivity, or discussing issues that pertain to relationships involving both Black men and women, some readers use the comment section to gripe about their dissatisfaction with the coverage of Black men.

“Why does Clutch continue to print articles centered around Black males? I thought this was a magazine for Black women? Why is it assumed we are so interested in Black males?”

Another:

“I’m sorry but clutch this is a black woman’s magazine! we dont need to talk about black men all the time. Alot of us are in relationships with men who are not black. lets discuss other issues here. clutch please!”

There’s more:

“Clutch can talk/write about whoever they want to, and I enjoy coming here to read the site. But they DO talk about Black men a whole lot. Clutch has an audience & that audience is mostly Black women. They can’t just assume every Black woman is pro-Black male or is dating one.”

The message from the commenters is clear—Black women’s publications shouldn’t focus on Black men.

As a Black woman, journalist, and die-hard magazine junkie, I understand that positive representations of Black women in the media are lacking. More than anything, I am aware that our stories would not be told if it wasn’t for the few magazines tailored to Black women. But do we honestly expect Black women’s magazines to ignore Black men in every capacity?

I’m inclined to believe that discussing one gender does not cancel out the proven commitment to Black women that these publications have shown year after year. Bigging up Black men doesn’t equate to a lack of concern for Black women.

I totally agree with the argument that a publication for us should not have to kowtow to the ego of a Black man who’s feeling wronged by the male representations in “For Colored Girls.” But not covering them at all? Seems rather absurd. Many of the issues centered on Black men are relevant to us as women and the community.

It is not my hope to silence constructive criticism of the magazines we support with our pocketbooks. But I don’t find “stop covering Black men” as one of the criticisms that is necessarily grounded in anything other than a few Black women’s deep-seeded issues with Black men.

A magazine’s job is to understand what its target demographic wants, consistently provide it, and, in the process, inform. Magazines, including CLUTCH, are not perfect; but CLUTCH has continued to be a publication where Black women can see stories and representations that mirror who they are in some regard. And that doesn’t change because a few articles are written giving props to Black men.

Do publications for Black women have an obligation to solely focus on women? Speak on it.

  • African Mami

    I’ll start of by saying that, the Rasta brother reading the book is hotter than the African sun. Now on to the real issue.

    Publications for Black women have the sole responsibility to focus on all things that affect them which includes BLACK MEN.

  • EmpressDivine

    hmm this thread is probably gonna blow up but I’ll take the bait.

    This topic has been discussed in extremes ad nauseam. There has been very little context in these discussions about why some commenters may be turned off by the way mags handle articles related to black men. The sampling of comments you listed don’t exist ina vacuum. I think we underestimate how difficult it is to be a black female on the web who is pro-black and pro-woman. Many of the most popular sites geared towards black folks are not female-friendly. Whether it’s entertainment/gossip: the Bossips and Mediatakeouts. Or music: AllHipHop, Worldstar, etc. Even when you find a site that’s specifically geared towards black women the website’s community can be particularly brutal towards women. We won’t even discuss some of the previously mentioned sites records on being pro-black because that would spawn a whole ‘nother thread.

    Even on sites that are decidely pro-black, they tend to be on point about race but wrong as hell about gender. Personal blogs tend to be the same way. I was a loyal reader of averagebro but couldn’t keep ignoring str8 up sexist posts. And I’m pretty mellow most of the time.

    To get to the point, I, and women who feel similarly, get tired of having to completely leave online communities or shut our brain off when we visit certain sites just to have an enjoyable experience. I was thrilled to find a site like Clutch that was produced by and for black women who thought just like me. It’s refreshing to see issues important to me covered from a black female perspective. It is not as simple as “Black women’s publications shouldn’t focus on black men.”

    Black women’s publications should be a place where black women’s issues are front and center and can exist independently without validation by and inclusion of men to be considered legitimate.
    Black women’s publications should be a space where black women can share their real grievances about men without being labeled male bashers/haters.

    I have more to add but this post is getting kinda long and it’s getting late so I’ll come back later.

  • Laila Apples

    “But do we honestly expect Black women’s magazines to ignore Blackmen in every capacity?”

    I have heard many black women say they have been ignored,stigmatized, and even discriminated against by black men in the media,i.e black male run mags movies videos fashion etc., for years and now they feel it’s only right to turn their eye away from black men.

    I personally don’t have an issue with you all bringing up black men here but I’d hope that you’d be particular about the black men you focus on.Forgive me for not wanting to hear anything about rap artists,actors,ballers etc.They don’t seem to like us very much so why would I want to constantly have them up in my face?

    I’d like to read about 100 black men,black male feminists(they exist),black men who are actively supporting, providing for, and protecting black women and black children (specifically girls).

    Maybe they should skip past the article.If noone reads it you all would stop writing about it Right?

  • ProofofLife

    Maybe it’s the type of articles you write. Didn’t you guys once right an article about black men because they were boohooing their lack of attention in the wake of For Colored Girls? And wasnt the article on some type of thirsty “don’t worry we still love you” BS? Can you see how that is annoying? Maybe you should change the tone of you BM articles, because they are always, in some way or the other, apologetically uplifting. Even the articles that try to “call them out” end up sideways kissing their ass. Maybe you need to inject new blood into your writing staff, ’cause most of the BM articles read the same lame way. I know this might come off a little harsh, but I had high expectations for this mag that almost never came to fruition.

  • Not agian

    The thing is that, when I come across a “black woman’s” magazine/blog, I expect to be uplifted and encouraged. To get good tips on makeup, hair, clothing. Inspired by stories, good advice on life and relationships etc. When I come out from reading theese magazines/blogs, I want to feel good, to feel better about myself and the things that I can accomplish.

    But when publications that are said to be about black women are constantly pointing out our flaws, giving us reasons of how we can change ourselves to get a black man. Reasons why black men feel we have too much attitude. Why us sistas need to lose the weight and weave for the black man. Why black women should always support black men. The type of traits a black man wants in a woman…

    Its just too much! These type of topics dont make me feel like I came out of some sort of oasis, they make me feel like trash.

    Why not something like, “The things men (yes men in general not only black men) love about black women.” Or something like that. I do like all the topics that are up this week and were up the last couple of weeks though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ashleigh-Elle-Aye/507714421 Ashleigh Elle Aye

    I don’t mind Black female publications talking about Black men. I welcome it actually. But, I can’t stand when all of the articles focused on men are about how to get one, how they aint shit or something else relationship related. Men have more depth than just being a bunch of issues with a dick attached to it. Sometimes it just seems like the same ole articles get printed over and over again. I do agree that just not writing about them at all is absurd. They are a big part of our lives, how can we not write about them? I think the woman suggesting such have some issues that need to be worked out.

  • Lulu

    I feel like a lot of publications feel the need to print “negative” articles in order to get high viewership.

    This site should be uplifting and positive. Not negative, we already have the world doing that to us.

  • Cris

    This is the problem with black women now – we only like to focus on ourselves. We need to broaden our horizons to include issues going on in other communities. We need to expand what we read, write, and talk about – especially when it comes to men.
    Black women should also pride themselves on understanding the men in our community – black men are a part of most of our lives, whether you date a black man or not.

  • lynette

    Well first and foremost, I really like this online magazine. It’s one of my favorite Monday morning pleasures. I read the articles here as well as on Essence.com. Regarding the question, I think if you focused solely on black women, you would lose a lot of your readers. I say that because many of our daily activities and lessons learned in life is with men. You can’t exactly seperate the genders. We are one community and black men and black women’s lives are intertwined together. However, I would hope that the majority of the articles focuses on uplifting and empowering black women as the magazine’s target audience is for black women. And although I love the idea of focusing solely on black women, I just don’t think it would be wise to do so.

    Keep up the good work Clutch!

  • DeniseNice

    The truth….a growing number of black women are NOT interested in black men. Some of us don’t care what they think, want, or feel. Some of us have been turned so far off by how black me–collectively– think, want, and feel that’s it’s NOT something of importance to us anymore.

    For those of us that have stepped outside of the box black women are placed in the “black community” it’s been liberating to discover there are races of men that don’t think and feel like black men. Once we’ve discovered that we DON’T desire to go back to the marginalized position held before. What black men think and feel is of no significance to us.

    Part of the issue is the reality that black women’s attention to black men is NOT reciprocated. Let me say it again…black women’s attention to black men is NOT RECIPROCATED. As a result of this SOME black women desire to be “free” of “holding black men down” or “uplifting brothers” or “loving black men.” That involves moving away from “race” centered topics.

    Being that Clutch bills itself for women of color those women expect to read about THEMSELVES and what they like. For a growing number of black women what we like is NOT black men.

  • http://TheFeministGriote.com TheFeministGriote

    I think it is rather juvenile to have a “no boys allowed” attitude no matter how it manifest itself speaking from a womanist standpoint. Some Black women are still very interested in Black men (like me) & would appreciate positive healthy discourse regarding Black men & Black women. It is actually absurd that some of us need to be reminded that men live on this earth with us and that our issues intersect more often than not! A female publication writing about men does not make it a traitor to the sisterhood!

  • D_Nice

    I agree. The articles usually write from the perspective of Black women in a position of weakness and desperation.

  • Maurice

    A magazine that’s focused primarily to women in this case black women/women of color should be geared to them but you will have to cover men…black men/men of color. As I’ve said before you cannot discuss women issues without men point blank.

    An online publication like Clutch does and will continue to discuss black women’s topics and should challenge them to see their flaws and to work in overcoming them to become a better you if they choose. Also to express and shout the successes and great qualities in black women so others can be empowered. It’s all about being accountability on matters dealing with black women and black men even if it hurts.

    Frankly, I have no use for an online mag of any kind if it’s focused solely of being happy go lucky 24/7…I need to be challenged in what my perceptions are whether right or wrong and how to progress forward.

  • Monique

    I am relatively new to Clutch, and the only thing that keeps me coming back is the relatively positive attitude the writers have towards black men. In fact, I appreciate all of your positive articles. There are so many good black men out there and I’m glad that Clutch isn’t shy about recognizing that. Please continue with this trend. Taking a healthy, positive attitude is always the better road to take.

  • Isis

    Co-sign!!! Those are the types I don’t want to hear about either. “rap artists,actors,ballers” If we must talk about black men like those can it be black men that date exclusively black??

  • Isis

    Preach!!! lol Even though I still love black men just not American ones.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    African Mami

    That fine dude reading the book is the real and only issue.
    Happy New Year.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    I dont know if you have noticed but women like and enjoy talking about men. All these topics you decry so much probably get a far better hit rate than those talking about black women being the center of the universe.

    Face it, thats women talk. Men talk about other stuff. Its how we have been fashioned. Part of me thinks that if this or any other online publications spoke about black men 100% of the time making them 100% responsible for all that is wrong in the world, none of the women in here would care that we were talking about them 100% of the time.

  • African Mami

    @ Queen! LOL…Well said. Happy New Year to you 2, oh and him!

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @DeniseNice

    Sorry to tell you but you speak for a small minority of black women. At least according to OKCupid. Women like to talk about men and black women like black men. I know this is disappointing to you and you will eventually put black women on the defensive about having the same feelings for black men white, Asian, and Hispanic women have about their men but such is the reality.

    I think you need to stop the reality altering language you are abusing to lambast black women and their quite frankly, natural romantic choices in the men that they see day in and day out. The men who give them the most attention, good and bad, and who they are the most likely to end up with.

    Before you go there, I know who Zoe Saldana is dating. I know who Naomi Campbell is dating. I know Roger Ebert has a black woman.

    If you dont like the tone of this magazine that discussions the relationship issues of black women who will more often than not deal with black men, than maybe you should check for another online magazine which, curiously enough, still continues to speak about black men.

    Word!

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Isis

    And when a black man comes around here and says he still loves black women, just not American ones, you promise not to tell him he is self hating, he hates his mother and suffers from the brain condition formally known as Euro-centric standards of beauty. God forbid he says he likes East African women. Your head would explode.

  • BFS

    EmpressDivine, Laila Apples, Isis, Proofoflife, Notagain, & DeniseNice, I agree 100% with you all, especially THIS part: “Part of the issue is the reality that black women’s attention to black men is NOT reciprocated. Let me say it again…black women’s attention to black men is NOT RECIPROCATED.” And this part: “Many of the most popular sites geared towards black folks are not female-friendly”. Those two FACTS right there point out why blogs that are 98%-100% catering to/talking about BLACK WOMEN & GIRLS are VERY necessary, like the title of the Salt-N-Pepa album says. Oops! Those are FEMALE rappers, so I guess it is a crime to mention them.

    i guess the way non-Black women are worshipped by Black men on Black male run blogs is no problem to people like QueenOfNewCastle.

  • BFS

    I meant to sy Black FEMALE rappers.

  • Wello

    black women focus on our selves too much!!
    for real!!! like hell we don’t. anytime there is a discussion about black women we bring in black men. there are so many programmes and discussions out their to help black men and uplift them but the ones for black women!!!where are they?

    black women are expected to be the work mules for everybody and not concentrate on our selves. we are the neck, 2nd in command and we listen to crap telling us support this and that and other BS like that. we need to learn to be more selfish. i want to see more things for black women and the empowerment of us
    my role as a human being isn’t JUST to be the care takers of others and to support others there are issues and things that effect ME that i will concentrate on. black issues usually focus around black men. black women are simply somewhere in the backdrop and not the main focus. black issues mean all black people not just the plight of black men (not saying there aren’t issues but black women need empowerment, support and have our own set of issues that aren’t ever respectfully addressed)

    i don’t see the problem talking about black men but this is a site for black women and should be the MAIN focus. its time for black women to starts doing things for the benefit of black women and not be guilt tripped into feeling bad about it.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Laila Apples

    Stop paying so much attention to the rappers, ballers, and comedians. Yes I know they are high value high profile men who women like, a lot. But they represent a small minority of black men. Their profile distorts reality. Its still a distortion.

  • Laila Apples

    @QueenofNewCastle No Ms. I don’t focus on rappers,ballers,actors.

    I go to different sites I never heard of that are supposed to be geared toward African American women and then they always have what’s going on with the latest rapper or comments made by a rapper actor etc against black women.
    I think many of us OVERSTAND that black men in the media don’t like us and some actually hate us why should sites geared to black women focus on those kinds of black men?

    I quickly leave those sites altogether.

  • Isis

    @QueenofNewcastle Them saying that would be anything new and not shock me at all. I’m more shocked to hear/meet black men who praise and adore black women only. That’s what shocks me. *shrugs*

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Cris

    Youre right… kind of. Black women do need to broaden their horizons but when it comes to our romantic interests and how it directly relates to black men, we dont actually talk about them. This is the problem with the whole of the black community. It just seems like we obsess over criminals and athletes in the community. If you arent in those two groups, as a black man, you are invisible to the black community and to black women. Why cant we ever talk about Regular Joe black man? He is in the majority, right? We pay more attention to P.Diddly, Chad Ocho Cinco, or Lil Pistol Starter than to the black men we see everyday.

    If we are going to discuss black men lets talk about the regular, run of the mill, 9-5 black men that go invisible most of the time. If we cant talk about them, lets not talk at all.

  • Violet

    Defendng the request to have the concentration solely on us pisses me off.
    And for anyone including Black women themselves to say it’s okay that we veer off to Black men is insulting.
    When I see Black women through out my day, sacrificing and struggling is reason enough for me to feel that way.
    I see Black women taking care of EVERY one’s children including their own(White couple’s children, even BM and WW’s children) like the antebellum south!
    What damn spotlight do WE have?!?
    There are no BW in any leading roles, tv or film. No paparazzi stalking any Black starletts. No Black woman who’s been with a famous ANY man who blows up in the media and is instantly a sex symbol.
    Every single day BM are on televsion, newspapers and magazines as star athletes. Never mind the objectifying. They’re still heros and admired and desired and definitely beloved. They’re Stars.
    Please, let me have this.

  • Isis

    Exactly @ BFS!!!! The problem is the black woman has been dogged out and mistreated so much that we (many of us, not all) don’t even feel like we deserve praise/admiration. Sorry, but I’m not one of those black women. I feel we deserve praise and admiration and I feel we deserve a spot like Clutch where we can get that. I don’t feel the need to love/support anyone, even the black man, who won’t reciprocate that back to me. Sorry, its just not that deep for me. I hate to quote Rev Run, but you need to go where u are celebrated, not tolerated. lol

  • Laila Apples

    @Queenof NewCastle If this magazine only focused on black men in a negative light trying to make them responsible for all the evils in the world I would absolutely not want to be here.

    I really like articles about personal responsibility and what we as black women can do without the assistance of black men or anybody else to help save ourselves.

    I don’t like to wait on others to decide I’m worthy for them to decide to help me or other black women and girls that MAY need help.I’d much rather make haste to help myself and other black women and girls.

  • Laila Apples

    I completely agree Wello.Couldn’t have said it better myself

  • Isis

    Exactly@ BFS!!!! The problem is black women have been dogged and mistreated for so long, that many of them feel that’s all they deserve and that they need to defend their oppressors. I don’t believe that black women aren’t worth respect and love. I’m sorry if this bothers some black women. I won’t defend or love anyone, including black men, that won’t give me the love and respect I deserve. I just won’t do it. Black women also deserve a place like Clutch that is black woman-friendly where we don’t have to have other women and their beauty pushed down our throats.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Wello,

    I want to believe you, but you are lying. On this very site there is an article about abortions among black women and how we are having a disproportionate number of abortions. It seems like black women are getting their needs met. We get all kinds of entitlement programs simply because we are black, female, and mothers, and we are still complaining. We spend BILLIONS on our aesthetics, yet we are complaining. We keep Koreans rich by buying their food to feed us, their clothes to clothe us, their hair products to make us attractive yet we are still complaining.

    The only mules in this country are the corporations. Dont they most of the taxes in this country right? I dont necessarily have a problem with this. They have a huge carbon foot print.

    ” black issues usually focus around black men. black women are simply somewhere in the backdrop and not the main focus.”

    You take care of black men and social services takes care of you. A fair exchange? Black men have far less to show for such care.

    When you compare it to the huge transfers of wealth and opportunity for women in these last decades… such care is hollow. A few slogans and money into the coffers of so-called Civil Rights organizations. Black men generally dont see a dime of money or change. You wouldnt trade places with a black man if your life depended on it.

  • Isis

    I keep posting but don’t see my posts. oh well

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @isis

    “I’m more shocked to hear/meet black men who praise and adore black women only.”

    Research on inter racial dating has shown that men are far less discriminating than women are. I think it may have something to do with man’s desire to spread his seed and to pass on his genes. Women, have a small window to have babies and a limited number of eggs (men produces millions of sperm until death) and are far more discriminating.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @LailaApples

    You know some black men complain about Oprah hating black men. They complain about all the books and “Yo Go Girl” movies of the 1990s and feel like they have not had their voices heard because as men, they are often told to suck it up.

    Its like I am watching two kids fighting in the lunch line but this line isnt for lunch but for victimhood.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    “When I see Black women through out my day, sacrificing and struggling is reason enough for me to feel that way.”

    This is a free country and generally speaking the decisions we make affect what type of life we will have. When we make better decisions we will find more happiness in our lives.

    Black women taking care of her children is her responsibility. Black women taking care of other peoples’ children is her job. Unless you have proof she is doing it against her will, what are you complaining about?

    Unfortunately all of your other grips are puerile.

  • DeniseNice

    @QueenofNewcastle

    I don’t know what Okcupid data you were looking at (as if that’s a significant source) but the data I saw pointed out how black women respond to black men the LOWEST compared to how often they responded to other races of men. Sorry…but black women that feel like me are GROWING! So…yeah….I think you the individual that is mistaken here.

    If you want to play doormat to black men that is your business, but don’t knock those of us that aren’t feeling that nonsense.

  • Laila Apples

    If clutch doesn’t provide the place some black women are now looking for i.e a place where there is a focus on personal accountability and a personal development plan along with no talk of black men unless it is the black men that are actively uplifting,supporting,providing for and protecting black women I say we create this space for ourselves.

    Problem Solved.

  • BFS

    Thank you Isis. And Violet, you are speaking some real wisdom there.

  • Laila Apples

    I say if clutch doesn’t provide the magazine that some black women want I.E a place where there is a focus on personal accountability and development plans for black women along with a focus on black men who are actively uplifting,supporting,protecting and providing for black women I say we create this space for ourselves.

    Problem solved

    No diss or boycott intended to clutch because they still have lots of funny stories so i’ll still check them every now and again for the funnies

  • http://AirInDanYell.tumblr.com Erin

    Totally agree with your comment about the brother reading the magazine… LOL

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @DeniseNice,

    “I don’t know what Okcupid data you were looking at (as if that’s a significant source) but the data I saw pointed out how black women respond to black men the LOWEST compared to how often they responded to other races of men. Sorry…but black women that feel like me are GROWING! So…yeah….I think you the individual that is mistaken here.”

    Yes, minorities have a tendency to grow. That doesn’t actually invalidate my point.

    “If you want to play doormat to black men that is your business, but don’t knock those of us that aren’t feeling that nonsense.”

    Yes, and thank you very much for the false choice. Apparently, if I am exclusively interested in dating black men, my fate as a doormat is sealed and yours, on the Swiss Alps with a Nordic Prince.

    Its completely unreasonable to presume that I am sentient enough to find a decent black man or that I too am not interested in being a doormat. I dont know if you are insulting me, as a black woman, or black men.

  • lm

    ” magazine that’s focused primarily to women in this case black women/women of color should be geared to them but you will have to cover men…black men/men of color.”

    o_O

    *Have* to?

    According to whose authority?

    And based on what reasoning?

    Unbelievable.
    *headshake*

  • Maurice

    @Im…what’s unbelieveable is you taking a portion of my comment and you sounding off with headshake and such. Name one women’s magazine thru print or online that doesn’t talk about men and vice versa. Read what I said in its entirety better yet read article.

  • kim

    I see you are back under another screen name. I guess we will have to fix that. LOL!

  • binks

    A lot of comments hit the nail on the head, particularly Not Again.

    It isn’t so much about articles pertaining/talking about black men but the types of articles that is written that make people say “look, stop with the articles already.” I don’t think that the comments were saying that you shouldn’t spotlight or talk about black men in a black women’s magazines/blogs but the author fail to note that when these comments was written that week we had articles mostly about black men back to back to back I was wondering if I was reading Essence for a minute as oppose to Clutch…lol. I don’t mind talking about black men, reading articles about them or even praising them but I think you need a fine balance since your audience is mostly black women who look to read issues about black women and insights from our perspective not necessary about black men. Yes, black men is apart of most of our lives, affect us and is a major topic of discussion but it is NOT the only aspect of our lives. It is all about balance and whether those articles is adding to the discussion of change and communication not just “you need to do this, black women are angry because of that, why don’t you love us, etc. etc.” Oh yeah, and the same thing goes for the articles dealing with race/ethnicity usually those articles go around and around as well and it gets tiresome well at leas to me

  • Leah

    Cosigning on this comment as I look at the sidebar and note that one of the more recent popular articles (as determined by the number of comments) is on Steve Harvey–yet again giving some form of advice to (black) women on how to deal with (black) men—(side-eye and yawn!).

    I then sit back and think of how Oprah is often treated in many of the articles posted on here. God forbide she not grovel at the feet of black men, and cater to their desire to be deified and praised for any little thing they do (even if they have proven themselves to be of poor moral character)–she is then criticized and demonized for her seeming lack of concern in dealing with black men’s issues. Hello, Oprah has always been about the empowering of women.

    I also think of the treatment of other individuals, like Tyler Perry, who attempt to address women’s issues and speak about empowerment and who are then criticized for being insensitive to black men.

    If this is truly a magazine for and about black women, why do we spend so much time trying to be sensitive to the feelings of black men and trying to learn things we can do to make them be more interested in us? I’m not saying that these things aren’t important and that they can never be addressed, but it seems like whenever someone brings up black women’s issues there’s a whole lot of unnecessary apologizing that goes on to assure black men that they are still “gods” in our eyes. Can’t speak for anyone else, but that’s where I get annoyed.

    Oprah and Tyler Perry are thrown under the bus because they dare challenge the “greatness” of black men by showing how their actions (can) affect black women, but ole’ two-timing, wife beating, Steve Harvey is seen as a reputable character that we black women should be taking advice from?! Yeah, right!

  • Queenofnewcastle

    Black men do have a wide pallet don’t they? If black men aren’t featuring black women or not featuring us exclusively who is? That’s right, no one. I cant open Maxim magazine and see women like me. I see Buffy the Body and Bria whoever on black men’s blogs and King magazine. I dont see any reciprocation of black women from any other people. They threw us a bone with the Italian Vogue cover and we clicked our heels. Then on those occasions we do make an appearance we are mixed. You have to convince me that people other than black men are doing us justice and I will throw my money in their direction. Until then I will see you next Fashion Week with the rest of the black women staging a mock runway show to protest our absence on the actual runways.

  • Laila Apples

    @Queen of New Castle child please you cannot call the casting of black booty models in black men’s magazines support.More like sexploitation.

    Thing about it is we don’t have to depend on black men or anybody else to do these things for us and we certainly DON’T {owe}black men a thing for sexploitation of African American women and girls.

    GTFOHWTBS

    Black women also have a palet one that is increasingly for men,and in some cases women, that support us in ways we find exceptable no matter what color.

  • Laila Apples

    (acceptable)

  • JustMe

    I understand that women don’t want to hear about rappers, ball players, or self-proclaimed playas, yes I get tired of that too. I would much rather hear more about the Bed-Stuy Men, men like this doing good in the community. On a side note those brothas where good looking too. Women lets be real about one thing we can talk all we want to about how independent we are or can be but let’s not forget that we do need help. I’m not saying a man is there to complete you truth be told you should be complete and so should he so the two can come together and compliment not complete. If that’s a black man or not that’s up to you; then again if a black man is seen with a woman other than black on his arm its black women who are up in arms. So why not write stories about uplifting black men and stop trying to bring them down and please STOP acting like ours don’t stink. Yes mothers have been holding down jobs and taking care of children for a long time but a mother can’t love her daughter the same way her father can and needs too. I’m not into self-help books so a magazine trying to tell me about how to take personal accountability and personal development just are not for me that comes from within. I’ve heard black women talk about black people has a whole not coming together and if this is the sound of the next generation black people will be further divided. I’m fine with black men being discussed in a magazine for black women more Bed-Stuy Men less ball players and men in that circle.

  • African Mami

    Okay, since the majority of the women on here do not mind black men being dissected discussed praised contradicted or whatevered, CLUTCH why don’t you invite a male writer to write something…..Let’s hear from their point of view. May be the Rasta Brotha can be a potential contributer.

  • African Mami

    From what I am reading, the majority consensus is that most women do not mind reading, discussing, dissecting, issues pertaining to black men. So clutch, why don’t you take the initiative of inviting a black male writer to write from his point of view. I mean, the Rasta brotha could make for one of your potential writers if there is a limited pool to choose from. But seriously, I would be interested to hear from a brotha!!! Just because its a black woman’s publication is not to say we should leave in a fantasy world where their POV does not matter. C’mon people we need the brothers, after all we did not get here on our own.

  • kim

    @BFS,
    It is no problem to QeenofNewcastle, because she is actually the A. Santiago chick. It’s the half white, half PR girl( or whatever) who has nothing but desdain for black women. Please ladies, Catch up and pay attention. I’m sitting here laughing because she is so silly until you can’t do anything but laugh. That little girl is mad because she will never be you. She will never know the greatness that is you. LOL!

  • http://www.clutchmagazine.com Clutch

    Hi African Mami – we have a great writer/staffer – Zettler Clay :) We also have verysmartbrothas.com. The guy in the photo is a stock photo and we have no relationship with him.

    Thanks!

  • African Mami

    @ Clutch…

    thanks for the feedback!

  • Dave

    @TheFeministGriote and Queenofnewcastle

    Im going to keep it simple.
    I love you sisters for your highly intelligent comments and I wish there were more outlets for not-so-bitter, authentically powerful black women and men not looking to play the role of victim or sit at the polar extremes to talk, learn, and build together. Your comments are confirmation of what I believe and why I and many brothers still love and discuss authentically powerful black women.

    Note to others: Get a white friend today, please. Progressive white men do not look at Playboy or Maxim to inform them. They look at them for the pictures and the fun articles (that sometimes ring true).

    Progressive black men do the same thing when looking at King or any other mag like it. If you are dating a man over 25 who thinks King is where it is beyond the pictures, you might want to evaluate your taste in men.

    Keyword: Progressive

    Thank you for speaking powerfully.
    “Dave”

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @LailaApples

    Actually I can call the casting of “booty models” support for black women. You cant call it sexploitation because it is done between consenting adults. These women get paid for a service, and they arent doing anything against their will.

    I understand blacks have a tendency to look down on anything associated with black people. If our rumps were in the air for more mainstream magazine, it would be proof of how beautiful we were.

    “Thing about it is we don’t have to depend on black men or anybody else to do these things for us and we certainly DON’T {owe}black men a thing for sexploitation of African American women and girls.”

    But according to a poster named “Violet” black women seem extremely bitter when people dont do things for us. We say there is no “reciprocity” when black men dont feature us on their blogs and on their magazines. Now you are telling me that we dont need them? Make up your mind.

    Also, who said you owned anyone anything for exploitation? Its a good thing you arent being exploited.

    Again, my point is that black women arent any different talking about black men, our love and our hate for them, than Cosmo is when they discuss 1,00,000 things to do to get such and such from a man. The only difference is that we have the very serious fissures between black men and women. Women still want to please men. Thats in our nature. We love the drama of talking about them.

    I have two eyes dear. I know which topics on Clutch get the most comments and which dont. There seems to be a market demand for discussions about black men.

    Obviously some black women have a pallet for non black men but even during those topics it always goes right back to black men. Sistas cant help that they love the brothers. Even when they hate them.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Lisa

    The best thing for you to do is ignore me since you probably dont have anything to say anyway. During that time please try not to “poison the well.”*

    *Cardinal John Henry Newman during a controversy with Charles Kingsley:

    …[W]hat I insist upon here…is this unmanly (or unwomanly) attempt of his, in his concluding pages, to cut the ground from under my feet;—to poison by anticipation the public mind against me, John Henry Newman, and to infuse into the imaginations of my readers, suspicion and mistrust of every thing that I may say in reply to him. This I call poisoning the wells.

  • S.

    African Mami u ain’t NEVA lie! lol

    That’s a SEXY brotha! Lord knows that I love them with locs too!

  • D-Chubb

    As some of the complaints point out, not all of us are in relationships with Black men. If you’re going to talk about “the brothas,” then perhaps you should to put an article up every now and again about navigating interracial relationships. Black men aren’t the only men on the planet.

  • Leah

    Why is it that we black women always have to feel obligated to listen to a black man’s POV? Who really cares what his POV is? That’s why we always have fools like Steve Harvey thinking they’re doing us favors by giving out unneeded advice. I for one don’t want to hear it! I want to hear from other black women!

    When have black men ever been obliged to listen to a black woman’s POV? They have their magazines, they have their news media, and not once are they asked to listen to the opinion of a black woman. It’s completely one-sided.

    Again, I’m not saying that black men can’t/shouldn’t be addressed at all, but if the primary focus of this magazine is for and about black women, then that’s who we should be getting a POV from.

  • maria

    Clutch I love all of your articles, but it would be nice if you could write articles about relationships that have already formed. I’ve been married almost 7 years and we’re still learning. I also want to point out that although the majority of the readers are black, there are some of us that are Afro Latina. Throw us a bone once in a while LOL
    As far as black men articles…. nothing wrong with them, but the majority of my African American girlfriends are in interracial relationships. I think its only fair that you do an article here and there with a white boy involved LOL

  • African Mami

    @ Leah,

    The primary focus of this magazine is black women CORRECT. In addition to this, black men happen to be a part of the equation whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Nobody is telling to ‘feel obligated’. If an article on here happens to be written by a brother, just IGNORE it, and let those of us that are interested dissect it, write dissertations and what not.

  • African Mami

    @Maurice

    ABSOLUTELY, WHOLEHEARTEDLY, 99.9+0.1% Agree with you!!!!!!!!

    We can cover fashion, beauty, hold hands and sing kumbaya in the name of positively channeling sisterhood, talk about career ambitions, feminism you name it, BUT still there are some of us that are still interested in articles covering men and their POV’s so long as they are not degrading our worth. I’m all for it!

  • African Mami

    @ S.

    Ain’t nothing like a brotha with locs. A sight to behold and cherish.

  • tip_tops

    “Do publications for Black women have an obligation to solely focus on women?”

    Well yes of course, writing about something else would be false advertising.

  • Laila Apples

    Ladies don’t fall for the okey doke.

    You are within every right to be concerned about yourselves first and foremost and within every right to expect a magazine that is geared to black women to be black women friendly again I say : if clutch doesn’t provide the magazine that some black women want I.E a place where there is a focus on personal accountability and development plans for black women along with a focus on black men and other non black men and women who are actively uplifting,supporting,protecting and providing for black women I say we create this space for ourselves.

    Problem solved

    You don’t owe non supportive negative hateful anti black women type (people in general) adoration,praise,your money,support,personal time,or energies as these type people will not and do not add anything of value to your lives.

    I really do sense that there are those who are tacticly and strategically trying to get us as black women to be stuck in the rabbit hole of having black men as our main and only focus.

    So far noone here,except I think one person, has said let’s absolutely not focus on black men at all. That leaves me wondering why certain individuals here protest so much on behalf of black men.

    I personally think the reason for this behavior is the fact that If we as black women focus solely on those that are currently adding value to our lives by actively uplifting,supporting,protecting and providing for black women and black children that would mean not an exclusive focus on black men and it would also mean that at times there’d be no focus on black men.

  • Laila Apples

    Only except alot of those black women in those mags,the few that are shown,are actually teenaged girls or women whom got their start in hip hop videos when they were younger than eighteen such as Chessika Cartwright.

    Also it is sexploitation/pimpery because it takes more value away from those women and girls than it adds to them.They don’t get paid much and they don’t get paid as much to do black men’s magazines as black men pay other women to do those same magazines,It doesn’t result in anything good for those women relationship wise either.Image wise it’s a bad look for them because unlike Kendra Wilkes they won’t be taken care of married etc.They are then looked at as cheap hoes.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @LailaApples

    “Also it is sexploitation/pimpery because it takes more value away from those women and girls than it adds to them.They don’t get paid much and they don’t get paid as much to do black men’s magazines as black men pay other women to do those same magazines,It doesn’t result in anything good for those women relationship wise either.Image wise it’s a bad look for them because unlike Kendra Wilkes they won’t be taken care of married etc.They are then looked at as cheap hoes.”

    Nice. Youre penning your freshmen year Feminist manifesto here on Clutch. Bravo. These women arent being victimized. The pay for modeling photos, make up and hairstylist. They like the whole scene, the parties, the men, the money, the notoriety, and the attention. If they want to sell their future for immediate money and fun…I remember a bunch of feminist back in the day fighting for a woman’s right to do just that.

  • Isis

    Exactly!!!!!

  • mag

    this is a Black magazine not interacial magazine not all black women want to hear about interacial dating let focus on black please we already dont have enough space to talk about black love if you want any interracial stuf there is plenty rididicule movies out there like the mosnter ball

    please club dont downgrade yourself into multiracial stuff

  • BFS

    THANK YOU Leah & isis!

  • DeePDX

    D-Chubb, I hear you on that. To be fair to the argument that you can’t cancel out the discussion of black men when this is a magazine is targeting black women, it would be nice to see a more layered discussion regarding the love lives of black women and ALL that entails. How about talking to a Sista who is pursued by men of other races and the feelings that are brought to the surface because of it? It does happen and I don’t know why some black women out there want to disregard it. It’s complex, different, but more importantly still talking about the Black Woman’s POV?

    You’re not gonna win a lot of allies with stating this fact on this site, I’m afraid. Unfortunately those of us that date outside of our race have to burden the mockery and disdain we receive from our fellow Sista’s and Brotha’s when we find a love that doesn’t look like us, or that is not from our own cultural background. So, thank you for at least being the lone voice (the only one I have seen thus far in reading through the comments) that speaks up of the diversity of the chemistry and intimacy that can be found when you didn’t even see it coming in the first place.

  • Laila Apples

    @Queen of New Castle you are talking to a woman with common sense.

    Black men are exploiting the insecurities of black women in those magazines.

    They are not adding value,financially or otherwise, to the lives of black loose women like they do with white loose women.

    And some of those women started off as children in that industry.

  • Lacy

    Problem IS SOLVED. You should just leave Clutch then and start your own then. Because this site has been VERY uplifting for both Black women and men. I can’t say I love each and every article on Clutch, but they have been the best site I seen online for young black women hands down.

    I love hearing and learning about Black men by the way. The topics and articles that have been covered here don’t hit on Black men and their interest but our relationships with Black men.

  • Laila Apples

    Damn Lacy you sure seem angry at me.I don’t know why considering the fact that I have nothing against Clutch reporting on African American men.

    What I said is we need a place where there is a focus on personal accountability and development plans for black women along with a focus on
    >>>>black men<<<<<AND other non black men and women WHO ARE ACTIVELY UPLIFTING,SUPPORTING,PROTECTING,AND PROVIDING for black women if this can't happen at Clutch I say we create this space for ourselves.

    Maybe you should leave.

    Noone wants a magazine where all is discussed is some black mens disdain for black women.

    I suggested that Clutch not focus on the Slim Thugs,Young Bergs,and Wesley Snipes and instead focus on black men such as 100 black men along with other black and non black men and women who are allies to black women and girls.

    Where's the problem in that Lacy?

  • Laila Apples

    @Lacy I also mentioned that Clutch has some funny articles here and that being one of the things I do like about Clutch.

  • Laila Apples

    @Lacy I’ll say again :So far noone here,except I think one person, has said let’s absolutely not focus on black men at all. That leaves me wondering why certain individuals here protest so much on behalf of black men.

    I’ll also repeat that there are certain black men that many black women do NOT want to see or hear about.I think Clutch should focus on the men that like black women and the men that black women like also

  • http://rapedattufts.info ABF

    I would not mind the mention of black men if they are not always mentioned like they are the default option when seeking romantic relationships. I despise hetereonormativity and the assumption that I must be seeking to be dating black men – or men in general. I also hate the assumption that all black men are the type to have sex with women or are seeking to have relationships with them. Also it is important to not forget asexual people – who have no interest in sex or finding partners at all.

    One thing I like about the idea of focusing on women only is that you can avoid erasing or ignoring some women who are not straight. I hate the trend where so many so-called women’s magazines focus on men as if 1) we all are into men and 2) that’s what we all mostly care about.

    I don’t know. Maybe I am just starving for a place where I don’t have to worry about reading an article that assumes I’m straight and dating or want to date or have any interest in partners. I already feel isolated as it is and such trends like I’ve described do not help.

  • jamesfrmphilly

    “Black men aren’t the only men on the planet.”

    well, black women are the only ones on my planet

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @LailaApples,

    “I personally think the reason for this behavior is the fact that If we as black women focus solely on those that are currently adding value to our lives by actively uplifting,supporting,protecting and providing for black women and black children that would mean not an exclusive focus on black men and it would also mean that at times there’d be no focus on black men.”

    Can you tell us who these people are. I am very curious. Please dont say the government.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @LailaApples

    “I suggested that Clutch not focus on the Slim Thugs,Young Bergs,and Wesley Snipes…”

    Ditto DJ Cipha Sounds and Don Imus.

  • Lacy

    I’m not Laila. This is one of my favorite sites if not my favorite and I really think they do a great job representing us as black women. Out of this year they did maybe 8-9 articles that focused or talked about Black men. But, when they did we were included in the conversation. I guess I just get tired of people complaining about this site. I can say I have emailed Clutch and personally asked for articles and/topics to be covered and they have 100% emailed me back and wrote about what I requested.

    I’m just a Clutch stan sorry.

  • Violet

    Well then lets be fair! As well as progressive.
    Invite a White, Latino, Asian(etc),brother to comment and write also!

  • Wello

    @ QueenofNewcastle
    lying!!!! i’m only lying to you because what i’m saying doesn’t fit into your view on the world.
    there’re programmes & spaces for “women” and “black” people but what about black women and black women only? they are growing (thankfully) but there isn’t enough & as much compared to black men and ones with respectful discussions about black women or empowerment that focuses on US. when we do talk about black women its to the tune of or in some way its our fault because we are too_______

    yes! ONE article about abortion among black women so we better quiet down. “[our] needs are being met” are you even a black woman?
    “We spend BILLIONS on our aesthetics, yet we are complaining. ”
    what does THIS have to do with ANYTHING? you’re mentioning a whole lot of stuff that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. more black woman blaming

    go and guilt trip somebody else for taking interest in my black womanhood and unapologetically does so and WON’T STOP. i’m not saying don’t support black men (i’m pro-black as hell and black men are BLACK) but i will not stop talking about things that effect me because i’m not including black men. people with this type of sentiment need to get over them selves fast, especially black men that think like this. Where does this entitlement come from that the universe MUST revolve around black men to be relevant to black people? are black women not black?

    when there are discussions about black men it generally sticks to black men but low behold you dare talk about black women: what about black men?
    “You wouldnt trade places with a black man if your life depended on it.”
    ^^^^this is a good example of what i mentioned above. what about the black men? they have it hard. yes they do and and guess what? its not all sunshine and unicorns for black women either. don’t think because i’m not getting stopped and searched that my black womanhood isn’t being terrorised in other crippling ways. measuring black oppression by things that are relevant to black men is oppressive to those that aren’t straight black men( LGTB blacks need a space to but this is another topic).

    as a black woman with black relatives i know black men have issues that needs addressing and should be but so do black women and rightly SHOULD be addressed as well.

    i’d like going on a site that isn’t trying to tear me down or naming different ways black women ain’t sh*t and are to blame for______. there aren’t many places on the internet i can do this so its not that i don’t want black men mentioned but i like coming to positive uplifting site where my black womanhood is front and centre stage and i don’t feel like i have to have my guard up because its more black woman bashing BS.

    i’m not choosing between being either woman or black, how can i? i’m both and a whole lot more. I won’t pick. both are JUST as important. both makes me.
    ***my spelling isn’t incorrect, i live in the UK.

  • http://iolastar.com/blog iolastar

    Do publications for Black women have an obligation to solely focus on women?

    When I log on to Clutch I click on the articles that interest me… it’s just that simple.

    Some articles on this site are targeted for the younger female that’s fresh out of college and that’s cool I been there, but I’m not her anymore. However those articles make me smile and remember the young, naive, insecure girl I used to be. Other articles on this site seem to focus more on the sista that’s getting a little older, more mature and have zero tolerance for adolescent BS (that would be me) and that BS could be her job, irritating family members and yes her man.

    For those of you that think men have no place in a woman’s publication you sound absolutely ridiculous. Men are part of our lives, just like your kids, your place of fellowship, your girlfriends, and the toys you keep in the drawer. If you want to read about hair, well click on the link. If you want to read about fashion click on the link.

    Some magazine covers and some articles don’t pertain to me and yes I do get sick of seeing the damsel in distress articles and the how to make it work with your man, but we all know that there are some women out there that can relate to these articles, women who need these articles…Remember when many of you were going off on Steve Harvey with his very common sense advice he gave and gives in his books and lectures? Apparently there is an audience. I know a lot of you can’t stand Steve or you say shoot I could’ve told her that, but real talk since many women grew up without daddies (yes yall I went there) Steve words are Bible. Again it may not be for you, but it can hit home with another woman I’m just saying.

    Clutch you can’t please everyone, we’re too diverse and as you know very opinionated. I think you’re doing a great job.

  • Laila Apples

    @Queen of New Castle in response to:Can you tell us who these people are. I am very curious. Please dont say the government.

    Other black women,YEP!the government,people in the lgbt community,feminists of different races,different churches not just the black church(which doesn’t have many black male members might I add),community organizations that were originally meant for whites such as boys and girls clubs The Y.There have been many people who have provided support to black women and children financially and otherwise when black men have not or could not.

    not an exclusive focus on black men and it would also mean that at times there’d be no focus on black men.”

  • Laila Apples

    @Wello You must not’ve gotten the memo so I’ll do you a solid and fill you in

    ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE MEN,AND ALL WOMEN ARE WHITE!

    …..end sarcasm and shakes head.

  • omg

    “Frankly, I have no use for an online mag of any kind if it’s focused solely of being happy go lucky 24/7…I need to be challenged in what my perceptions are whether right or wrong and how to progress forward.”

    lmao. this really isn’t a publication aimed at you so it doesn’t matter whether you “have no use” for such a periodical. you’re not the target audience.

    this is one of the problems i feel with men who comment or seek to engage in these publications and the risk taken in doing certain types of articles involving them – they have a ballooned sense of self-importance that requires their opinion to take precedence, even in a space that in some ways is not theirs, over women.

    so presumptuous. why can’t you just read and absorb and learn something for your next relationship?

  • omg

    also, as a former journalist myself, i can tell you that what is newsworthy is almost always subjective.

    topics and stories are almost always passed up in favor of others. it is the prerogative of the editors and, to a lesser extent the writers, to determine what is “newsworthy.”

    the folks at clutch always seem to operate on the assumption that they have to write about certain things when the reality is that they do not. they will say that when a rapper or someone makes disparaging remarks about black women, they must post something. but they do not need to do this. they only do so because they know it’s controversial and will get a response. but, the fact that people respond to it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s newsworthy. it’s just sensationalism.

    anyway, there should be articles about men in general, just just black men – if that’s the way you’re gonna go. but, i would imagine if they go too far, they will lose many in their audience. i for one, don’t frequent this site as much as i did a few months back because i find some of the articles shallow and poorly written and obviously meant to get a rise out of readers. but i digress.

  • MC

    Someone mentioned that those comments regarding articles discussing black men do not exist in a vaccum. That is very true. When I see those comments I sense strong emotion and resentment and I really think that needs to be adressed. A good article for clutch to write about would be how not to become a bitter woman despite all the negativity that is thrown our way and not to ingest the garbage put out by some black women that impact on our perceptions and cause us to become jaded.

    Also how can you not write about men at all? yes men are still a very part of woman’s lives. writing about men, as they relate to women’s issues, does not take away from clutch being a black female centered publication.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @LailaApples,

    “Black men are exploiting the insecurities of black women in those magazines.”

    All magazines are charged with exploiting women’s insecurities. Maybe women shouldnt be so darn insecure to begin with. Thats a personal problem. We cant safe proof society because some people are too fragile.

    “They are not adding value,financially or otherwise, to the lives of black loose women like they do with white loose women.”

    What? There goes white women under the bus. Black women are victims while white women are agents of their own destiny.

    “And some of those women started off as children in that industry.”

    Thats a matter for the police and their parents who are probably really exploiting them.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Wello,

    First, I want to apologize for saying you are lying. We all have opinions here. I happen to disagree with yours. Therefore I think you are wrong in your opinions.

    I think first you need to distinguish between needs and privileges. Earlier you said this:

    “black women are expected to be the work mules for everybody and not concentrate on our selves.”

    I hope that you can qualify this statement because it is very vague. I think I brought up our access to abortion, to demonstrate the extent that we access women’s health. I am anti abortion btw. I also brought up how much we spend on our aesthetics- highlighting the billions that we spend -to show that we often do care for ourselves. It may not be in ways that are spend thrift or wealth creating but we do have lots of luxuries. I dont know what you mean by creating spaces. Its sounds very obtuse. Sometimes when I hear people talk about creating spaces they sometimes confuse it with creating legitimacy. Yes, the white working class in the UK should create their own space but their grievances may not be very legitimate. I used that as an example BTW.

    You live in the UK? Holla, I am upon-Tyne girlfriend. No one ever makes a connection with my screen name. Bloody Yanks.

    Ok girl if I walk into Sainsbury and see Cheryl Cole on EVERY SINGLE MAGAZINE cover, I am going to scream!!!! She cant sing. The other Cheryl girl cant sing other. Dont let me go there.

  • http://kmichelpress.blogspot.com/ K. Michel

    “I really do sense that there are those who are tacticly and strategically trying to get us as black women to be stuck in the rabbit hole of having black men as our main and only focus.” (Laila Apples)

    I really do “sense” that if non-Black men were presented as your “main and only focus” in this magazine, you wouldn’t be complaining about it… “rabbit hole” and all.

    I also “sense” that you’ve seen the blogs out there that already cater to Black women persuing relationships SOLELY with non-Black men. Yet I don’t see any women like yourself stressing to the owners of such publications that the Black men who support and love Black women aren’t being represented THERE alongside those quality non-Black men.

    But, you seem to have no problems doing the opposite HERE?

    So do we all go to a few of the blogs and sites that cater to Black women and also extol non-Black men as the “main and only focus” and tell them, “No, no, no… we ALSO need to see pictures of quality Black men and Black women alongside non-Black men and Black women”?

    I HAD to address that comment of yours because of how insincere it seemed to be.

    Clutch is pro-Black woman, always has been. A lot of the people complaining have never owned any publications, so they don’t understand the work and the process that goes into maintaining a successful brand. Within the past two weeks ALONE, Clutch Magazine has written articles such as…

    “Why ‘You Complete Me’ Is Bullshit and How I Learned to Complete Myself”
    “The Girfriend’s Guide to Protecting Yourself, Part Two: Birth Control”
    “Visualize It: How To Get What You Want In 2011″
    “DJ Apologizes for ‘Haitian Women Have HIV’ Comment”
    “Stepping to the Side-Chick”
    “Plan B: Settling or Settling Down”
    “Convinced of Herself”
    “8 Big Moments for Black Women in 2010″
    “Feminism’s Vital Role in Rebuilding Liberia”
    “Getting Past a Weight Loss Plateau”
    “Dry Skin and Home Remedies to Heal It”
    “MTV Airs Controversial Abortion Special”

    I’m a personal fan of Clutch Magazine’s Bene Viera and Jamilah Lemieux, and I think this is a case of people seeing what they choose to. It’s an issue of perception.

    In fact, I can effectively argue that Clutch Magazine’s percentage of articles about Black men in ANY regard are overwhelmingly less than the percentage of other Black woman centered media that are geared toward affinities for non-Black men.

    So, generally, Black woman interracial oriented sites and blogs focus SO MUCH MORE on Black men than Clutch Magazine does.

    No one brings it up on THEIR mediums because, either no one reads their stuff, their opinions get stifled if they bring up the insane amount of attention Black men receive there, or they actually like it when Black men get bashed.

    As I can see, the ONLY people who are upset here are the ladies who don’t like Black men. In that case, there are publications out there that cater to this notion. But, Clutch isn’t about “not liking Black men”. Clutch Magazine is arguably THE publication that makes a genuine and solid effort to entertain and, yes, uplift Black women and women of color.

  • http://roslynhardyholcomb.com roslynholcomb

    I stopped reading Essence because of all the articles about black men. I don’t read a women’s magazine to read about men. If I wanted to do that, I’d read a men’s magazine. At the very least, do what other magazines do — talk about men in general, after all black men aren’t the only men on the planet. Further, I don’t have deep-seated issues with black men, just no desire to read about their issues. I’m sure their magazines cover their issues and interests why do we need to cover those here?

  • QueenofNewcastle

    Come on. When Cosmo talks about men are they talking about Tyrone and Pablo? Get real. I doubt Essence spoke about black men the way black men speak about each other. It was always in relations to black women or black children, or black people in general. Listen, you have already found these niches online that deal with inter racial couples. They happen to be a putrid group of women but I digrees. Essence does feature black women who date out. I think most magazines take a rather indifferent approach to the issues which is what I really think is bothering you.

    You have no deep seated issues with black men? Pull my other leg.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Heggs/827665 James Heggs

    I subscribe to mainstream man pubs and rarely do they talk about issues that a black man can dig per se, like myself: breaking into film as a man of color, oops I’m black so I am a fake thug or some charlatan (-which really is such a sign of anger over past choices She made) none of em even talk of tyler perry as a director who earns multi-streams of revenue in entertainment but to some ladies up here).

    Outside of fashion and pop culture the topics on public policy or industry, is mostly white males.

    So some black women dont want to ever hear about black men-on sites like this or in essence and yet want us black men to respect her opinion on men gleaned from GQ, Mens Health, Playboy…or FHM?

    Which means some black women are forming a consensus about us without actually reading about us? This is like me saying I dig a woman’s pain because I put the toilet seat down.

    And what ever trends in men she finds out about men are from publications that dont really reflect black men overall…talk about self delusion and stuck on yourself. I guess yall dont care about what your fathers, brothers, uncles or any male relatives you may have.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @James Heggs

    Did you forget? All your needs are being met in the black community while the black woman mules around you catering to your every need and desire- except of course as a new born when you need to be breast feed. Black women unfortunately dont breast feed citing lack of interest as her #1 reason.

    Yes, because you are able to “hit it and quit it” you as a black man are complete and whole in the black community. I’ll say it again, if you arent a black man running from the police or on a football scholarship the black community can give a dam about you. When something bad happens then they will be calling and shaming for all the “good black men” to stand and deliver. When the same black community aint calling you a bitch, thug, fag, or sellout they wondering how come you arent stepping up to take care of someone else kids. I’d run away to Siberia if I were you.

    Good luck James Heggs. I do hope that a space is created for you to bitch whine and complain like everyone else got.

    Peace.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    Preach. These sites are also heavily moderated so whatever pieces or comments related to those pieces should assumed to be the beliefs held by those in charge. Dont go to those blogs and talk about the possibility of having a functional happy relationship with a black man. You will be called, among other things, a mammy, a doormat, a mule, damaged beyond repair, and everything else unholy. In fact I was just told on this very site that because I have romantic interests in black men I am destined to be a doormat. How insulting.

    Its sad that these women can’t even consider that black women have FAR more nuanced relationships with black men, women, and other races of men. Not every white man is Robert Deniro and not every black man is R. Kelly.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @omg

    “this is one of the problems i feel with men who comment or seek to engage in these publications and the risk taken in doing certain types of articles involving them – they have a ballooned sense of self-importance that requires their opinion to take precedence, even in a space that in some ways is not theirs, over women.”

    Your response to Maurice was completely hackneyed and needlessly cliched. What he said could easily have been said by a woman. Let me break it down to you. He thinks that any online publication whether it be geared toward men, women, or former alien abductees shouldnt just be a circle jerk of hi fives and sycophancy. It should reflect on the good and bad of the life experiences of its readership.

    Youre the self important one who thinks as a man he shouldnt utter such notions or that there wouldnt be any women in here who would sympathize with it.

  • http://roslynhardyholcomb.com roslynholcomb

    James Heggs said, “…yet want us black men to respect her opinion on men gleaned from GQ, Mens Health, Playboy…or FHM?”

    Actually I don’t care if black men respect my opinion or ask for it. I don’t expect black men to be concerned about my problems and/or issues, nor have I ever seen any black men’s publications that address black women’s issues in other than a self-serving way. So why on earth are we dealing with their problems with Tyler Perry or how For Colored Girls makes them feel? Do their magazines question how WE feel about Tyler Perry, or how pretty much every product produced by a black man is demeaning and degrading to black women? I’m thinking not so much. Black women have enough of our own stuff to deal with. Let black men deal with their problems and we’ll deal with ours.

    James Heggs said, “Which means some black women are forming a consensus about us without actually reading about us?”

    What’s there to read about? Most of us have black male relatives and have met plenty of black men. What the hell is there to talk about? It’s not like black men beamed down on the planet from Pluto yesterday. From what I’ve observed, black men aren’t all that different from any other men. That’s why I don’t see what all this analysis and observation is about.

    James Heggs said, “stuck on yourself.”

    Yep, stuck on me and mine, just like every other self-actualized human being on the planet. Why on earth should I be concerned about a bunch of men who aren’t my husband, brother or friend. The overwhelming majority of black men are perfect strangers to me. Why in the name of all things chocolate should I be making their issues my issues? If you’re not my husband or relative there is no benefit to me whatever in fretting about your problems. I’m not your fucking groupie. If you want a woman to be worried about you marry one. Otherwise deal with your own shit.

  • http://kmichelpress.blogspot.com/ K. Michel

    “In fact I was just told on this very site that because I have romantic interests in black men I am destined to be a doormat. How insulting.” (QueenofNewcastle)

    It’s probably the kind of language that they’d like to see more of in Clutch Magazine, unfortunately.

    “Its sad that these women can’t even consider that black women have FAR more nuanced relationships with black men, women, and other races of men. Not every white man is Robert Deniro and not every black man is R. Kelly.” (QueenofNewcastle)

    Well, it’s done intentionally. They’re “faking it ’til they’re making it” …so to speak. That’s why so many of these ladies (who aren’t fooling many) want so desperately to dictate what is spoken on in a such a successful magazine like Clutch. They need to e-mail some of the writers and kindly suggest topics that they’d like to see more of. If the writers are interested, then they’ll pick up on it. That’s what normal people do, after all.

    But, we can’t try to tell ANYONE (much less Clutch Magazine) how they should run their own publication… when we don’t have one of our own that’s of equal or greater value.

  • Laila Apples

    What you did @K.Michel is just lie on me dude whoever you are.

    I have said that if Clutch only focused on black men in a negative light I wouldn’t be here.

    I also said that Clutch should be particular about the black men they put on here Because noone wants to hear about Slim Thug,Young Berg,or Wesley Snipes and their latest rant and disdain for black women.

    I also said I’d like to hear about 100 black men,black male feminist,and other black men along with other non black men and women WHO ARE ACTIVELY SUPPORTING,UPLIFTING,PROTECTING,AND PROVIDING FOR black women and children.

    Because like it or not black men are NOT the only people who are actively supporting black women and black children.

  • Laila Apples

    K.Michel-But, we can’t try to tell ANYONE (much less Clutch Magazine) how they should run their own publication… when we don’t have one of our own that’s of equal or greater value

    We can if they ask our opinion.And they did on the issue of writing about black men

    Also K.Michel you’ve made alot of assumptions about me in suggesting that I go to other sites geared toward interracial relationships and suggest things at those sites

    First of all I have never been asked my opinion really on anyone’s publication.

    Secondly What I said before still stands black men are NOT the {only} group of people supporting black women and black children.I suggested we focus on >>ALL<< people,both genders different races and religions,and organizations that do. Which would include some black men would it not?

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Rosyln

    “Why on earth should I be concerned about a bunch of men who aren’t my husband, brother or friend. ”

    Dont be so coy. Every other black woman is a stranger to you too. I am not your sister, your mother, and certainly not your friend. Our vaginas dont make us kin.

    Those black men you dont care about because they arent your brother, friend or husband happen to be the husbands, brothers, and friends of some of the women at this site. Maybe they can come here and enjoy topics that discuss those men in their lives.

    “What’s there to read about? Most of us have black male relatives and have met plenty of black men. ”

    I dont know about you but black women dont come to read about their brothers, fathers, and uncles especially as most of the topics take a romantic angle.

    “Actually I don’t care if black men respect my opinion or ask for it.”

    You have your own blog dont you? What you do or dont respect should dictate whats spoke about on this blog. You aint the only one here.

    “Let black men deal with their problems and we’ll deal with ours.”

    And when we are each others problems, what then? Your ideologically driven myopia is kinda sickening at this point. Perhaps you should just abstain from these particular topics since you have nothing but not so hidden hostility and bile to offer.

  • African Mami

    Can somebody PLEASE sum up in a line or two why they are so against black men being featured in black women’s magazine, when they are part and parcel of our existence? They are!!! Your brother, your father, your husband, your president?! I mean????

  • http://twitter.com/kjnetic Agent 021

    Well i see y’all have Cleonte Jones, Relationship Expert…

    but seriously, BW do need a space of their own, and if it’s without BM, or discussing BM as they think BM discuss BW…then so be it.

  • http://roslynhardyholcomb.com roslynholcomb

    1. Black women need to address our own. Black men do not belong to us and are not our responsibility.

    2. How man black men’s magazines do you see featuring and talking about black women’s issues in any real way?

    3. Do you see any other women’s magazines featuring men’s issues?

    4. Black women spend an inordinate amount of time focused on black men’s issues when we need to be expending our time, energy and limited resources taking care of ourselves.

  • http://roslynhardyholcomb.com roslynholcomb

    Now could someone please explain to me what’s so disconcerting about a magazine that brands itself to be “for the young, contemporary woman of color,” being exactly that? Black men are not WOMEN. Black women are not MEN. We’re not interchangeable. We have a identity separate from them. What is wrong with desiring a space free of commentary about the latest asshole rapper/baller? Free of analysis and endless navel gazing about what black men want? What about what WE want? What about what we need? To call yourself a magazine for WOMEN and then feature articles telling black men “we still love them,” or reflecting on why black men have problems with Tyler Perry is absolute false advertising. If you want to be a magazine about “contemporary PEOPLE of color,” then by all means be so. I read plenty of mainstream magazines and have yet to see one where women are trying to understand why MEN have problems with a filmmaker. Why? Because they don’t give a damn. It’s not their problem.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Roslyn

    You seem very bossy.

    1. The vast majority of the topics on any blog for black women talks about issues centered around black women. Youre misrepresenting this blog to grind an axe.

    Some black men belong to some of us, others belong to other women. I know for sure that the very vast majority of non black men dont belong to black women.

    2. I dont read black men’s blogs but I cant think of any men’s blogs that discuss women the way women discuss men. Thats what makes the genders different.

    3. The first tab for Cosmo magazine is “Sex&Love.” Presumably for heterosexual women. If you click on that tab, one of the sections is entitled “Sex Tops from Guys.” The first section is “Sex Positions.”
    http://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/tips/

    The next tab is “Hair & Beauty” and the featured article for that tab is “What Guys Think of Your Hair and Makeup.”

    http://www.cosmopolitan.com/hairstyles-beauty/tiptool/guys-secret-beauty-thoughts#/category1

    While these might not be “men’s issues” they do place a certain premium on the opinions of men. I think the very vast majority of the articles here on Clutch take a similar stance when discussing men. Bare in mind that the black community is unlike any other community.

    4. I dont think we deal with black men’s issues (whatever they are) in any meaningful way. We need to discuss why our limited resources are putting so many Korean kids through med school.

    meh….

  • African Mami

    @Roslynholcomb Asked for a brief line or two but thanks though!

    1. Black women need to address our own. Black men do not belong to us and are not our responsibility.

    We are already addressing our own, there are tons of articles on here and in other publications that do so! If your son was locked up or wrongfully accused of something, would you still make that statement that black men do not belong to us and are not our responsibility. As I have said before in a previous posting we can hold hands and sing kumbaya all day long in the name of sisterhood and its solidarity, BUT completely shunning healthy discourse about OUR men baffles me.

    2. How man black men’s magazines do you see featuring and talking about black women’s issues in any real way?

    That’s a good question, BUT because the brothers are not examining us, we shouldn’t cross-examine them? Therefore an eye for an eye? ummm….we are better than that.

    3. Do you see any other women’s magazines featuring men’s issues?

    I am a magazine junkie, and there are tons of them that address men issues in relation to women!

    4. Black women spend an inordinate amount of time focused on black men’s issues when we need to be expending our time, energy and limited resources taking care of ourselves.

    Please! Stop sounding like a ‘spokesperson’ for the black woman. I and many others that I know of do NOT spend an inordinate amount of time focusing our energies on bmi’s! We will discuss and dissect but trust and believe we do not make a career out of it.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    “What about what WE want? What about what we need?”

    There are a lot of young women at this site and one thing a young woman wants and convinces her she needs is a man. Its our girl brains working. We like to talk about them. We like to gossip about asshole rappers and ballers because its fun. We dont like to be serious all the time. We like to know who is dating who, even if that who isnt a black woman. When are such gossips.

    You look older. You sound out of touch. Check for these women post fertility and maybe then they may agree with you.

  • http://roslynhardyholcomb.com roslynholcomb

    “If your son was locked up or wrongfully accused of something, would you still make that statement that black men do not belong to us and are not our responsibility.”

    My son is the responsibility of his father and I. Not black women. And if he does something stupid and go to jail I don’t expect black women to be running around marching and protesting on his behalf.

    “BUT completely shunning healthy discourse about OUR men baffles me.”

    Maybe it wouldn’t be so baffling if you grasped the concept that they’re not OURS. People don’t belong to people (at least not in this country.) We fought a war to end that a long time ago.

    “…we shouldn’t cross-examine them? Therefore an eye for an eye? ummm….we are better than that.”

    Why should we be better than that? Only a fool or a groupie spends her time worrying about a bunch of folk who aren’t worrying about them.

    “I am a magazine junkie, and there are tons of them that address men issues in relation to women!”

    I’m a magazine junkie as well and those mags talk about attracting men and being good in bed, that type of stuff. They are NOT talking about how the latest film affects them. Or writing long essays about “we still love you.” Even at the height of the feminist movement when white women were literally burning white men in effigy they weren’t doing that kind of foolishness.

    “…and many others that I know of do NOT spend an inordinate amount of time focusing our energies on bmi’s!”

    Clearly you don’t read this magazine. You know the one that purports to be for young contemporary women of color. Seems like whoever edits it is obsessed with black men’s issues. Maybe you need to tell them that black women aren’t really that interested because apparently they think so.

  • Leah

    @QueenofNewcastle–You certainly can’t think that you can speak for all “young” women. I’m relatively young, 29, and I agree with Roslyn. I can’t completely co-sign on many of the ideas you purport young women enjoy engaging in.

  • hehe

    You’re a middle age woman who is married. A good majority of women on this site is young who are not married so there’s going to be discourse on relationship. Since on average Black women date/marry within their race the topic of Black men is going to come up. Also a lot of issues women deal with are related to or relatable to Black men.

    I have to agree with you sometimes Clutch goes overboard with babying black men issues such as the article “We still love you”.

  • http://roslynhardyholcomb.com roslynholcomb

    @hehe, nowhere did I say that the magazine should not discuss relationships. I said that there shouldn’t be articles analyzing black men’s problems or apologizing for daring to actually have a movie or anything that’s FOR US: “Black Men We Still Love You,” or black men’s beefs with Oprah or Tyler Perry. Talking about flirting or attracting men or problems in relationships is par for the course in women’s magazines. Treating black men as though we are responsible for taking care of them or that their problems are ours is not. No other women’s magazine does this.

  • Ms. Columbia U.

    I have been reading this magazine since day one – April 2007 and this magazine does not focus on Black men as much as you are trying to make it seem.

    And why are you still here. Stop reading the site. People like you kill me. 1st to talk about a site that is trying to offer something that isn’t being presented. I see why we have NO MAGAZINES in print. People like to complain and find something to harp on. I say stop reading Clutch. BYE!

  • Ms. Columbia U.

    Not to be funny but are you even supposed to be reading Clutch? You look much older than 18-35. I would think Essence would be a better fit for you? Maybe even Sister 2 Sister or Ebony?

  • Maurice

    @QueenofNewcastle….Thank you!

  • http://roslynhardyholcomb.com roslynholcomb

    @Ms. Columbia U., trust, you’re not being funny. I answered the question that they asked. If they didn’t want to know how the readers of the magazine felt, presumably they wouldn’t have asked the question. Perhaps you might want to address your question to the people who asked the question. Not the ones who answered it.

  • http://kmichelpress.blogspot.com/ K. Michel

    “Secondly What I said before still stands black men are NOT the {only} group of people supporting black women and black children.I suggested we focus on >>ALL<< people,both genders different races and religions,and organizations that do. Which would include some black men would it not?" (Laila Apples)

    You tell me.

    It was clever putting it in question form, to avoid saying it as a statement. Obviously, you don't believe that Black men would be included much, if at all. I say "obviously" because you've said as much yourself. Here…

    "I personally think the reason for this behavior is the fact that If we as black women focus solely on those that are currently adding value to our lives by actively uplifting,supporting,protecting and providing for black women and black children that would mean not an exclusive focus on black men and it would also mean that at times there’d be no focus on black men." (Laila Apples)

    You know, I'd LOVE to know what group or groups of men have been (and currently are) uplifting, supporting, protecting and providing for Black women and children more than Black men do. This is a pretty big statement you've made, after all.

    "I have said that if Clutch only focused on black men in a negative light I wouldn’t be here." (Laila Apples)

    That's good. However, I said that if Clutch only focused only on non-Black men (to the exclusion of Black men, of course), you wouldn't complain about it the way you are now.

  • Maurice

    @roslynholcomb: You’ve made some valid points for example about BM publications not caring enough to search and understanding what BW endure and how they overcome to help us BM to understand BW. You’re right there’s much to improve in that area as well as others….I can’t argue with that and you’re mad as hell from what I’ve read.

    This is one of your comments where I disagree with you:

    “So why on earth are we dealing with their problems with Tyler Perry or how For Colored Girls makes them feel?”

    Tyler Perry/FCG was focusing on BW women who had been abused, mistreated, disrespected by too many BM not being a man but actually boys. It also displayed how many of the female characters were able to channel that pain, guilt, anger, enabling behavior, and all of the emotions built up to make things better for themselves and to see that they are indeed worthy of unconditional love.

    Let’s not forget Hill Harper’s character is a true testament of a real man standing by his wife, who couldn’t procreate because of a decision she made in the past. It did not make me feel good about the behaviors of some of the brothas in the movie, although some of the women in the film encouraged that bad behavior, but it did help me to see the pain and some ways feel their pain. We as brothas have to step up individually and as a whole but some of my sistas have to stop enabling boys to continue being boys. So Tyler Perry/FCG was about BW finding strength despite what they had gone through.

    Here you said: “…how pretty much every product produced by a black man is demeaning and degrading to black women?”

    Are you serious? Who do you think controls the manufacturing of products that comes into our communities?

    Again you say: “Actually I don’t care if black men respect my opinion or ask for it. I don’t expect black men to be concerned about my problems and/or issues…”

    Come on now @roslynholcomb everyone wants their opinion to be respected, incl. you maybe not agreed upon but it’s true…it’s human nature. Respect has nothing to do with color, gender, or anything…point blank! So none of your BM friends or BM family members are concerned or have ever been concerned with your problems and/or issues? Hmm…ok!

    We should all start focusing on how to grow for the next years ahead whether its baby steps or taking giant leaps of faith. Leave all the negativity, get rid of the no good friends, stop with negative self-talk, take risks..etc. If you don’t like BM or BW or whatever race of people then fine that’s your choice but good for everyone else. But I believe some of you sistas and brothas need a heart check before the new year…literally! And if you don’t like Clutch then sayonara, adios, au revoir, don’t let the door hit you from behind.

  • Laila Apples

    Can we not worship or be groupies for black men and at the same time not bash them?Or is it that some men deserve to be bashed while others deserve to be recognized for their support of black women and black children?

    I am starting to think that there is some either or scenario going on here.

    I don’t know it’s getting confusing to me.

    It seems to me that some people here,namely African Mami Violet,seem to be going from one extreme to the next.Either worshipping all things black male or hating all things black male.

    Now that I think about it I am starting to question my own original stance.
    I said we shouldn’t talk about the Slim thugs and other hateful individuals but at the
    same time there is power behind words.

    When I have suggested that black women not focus on those kinds of black men and others,i.e John Mayer, that denigrate us there have been some black women on twitter who have suggested to me that black men and others that are saying negative things about us are causing the lives of some black women to be very difficult.

    Should we not be brainstorming ways that black women can avoid being negatively affected by the words and even actions of those kinds of black men if another situation arises with a black woman thrown under the bus by a black man or ANYONE ELSE?(emphasis on “by the words of THOSE KINDS of black men”)

    And we still absolutely cannot forget about the black men AND OTHERS that ARE doing good things and supporting black women and black children even when it is inconvenient.(emphasis on “AND OTHERS” as black men are NOT the only people supporting, and concerned with the health and well being of, black women and black children)

    @Clutch I don’t know I’m just throwing suggestions at you guys.I really don’t hate you guys. I’m here too often to feel that way.I’ve left other sites to come here because I do like Clutch but I just don’t want to see it turn into what those other sites became.

  • http://roslynhardyholcomb.com roslynholcomb

    “Can we not worship or be groupies for black men and at the same time not bash them?”

    I haven’t bashed anyone in this thread. I can’t speak for anyone else.

    “hating all things black male.”

    I don’t hate everything black male. Frankly I’d feel the same way if Clutch had articles in here talking about how any man feels about Tyler Perry. Or declaring their undying love and devotion to a whole group of men like some infatuated fifteen-year-old.

    “When I have suggested that black women not focus on those kinds of black men and others,i.e John Mayer, that denigrate us there have been some black women on twitter who have suggested to me that black men and others that are saying negative things about us are causing the lives of some black women to be very difficult.”

    Sounds good to me, unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the direction those articles take. Until and unless black women divest themselves of the notion of ownership and kinship with those type men they will continue to find themselves “wincing” over what they say. Essentially those men bear a pathological hatred for black women, and probably for women in general. That being the case, having any type of emotional response to them is pure suicide. I’m opposed to giving those idiots a platform or any type of publicity. Most of them are being fed and cared for by black women. If we starve the beast, ie ignore them, don’t support their endeavors or enterprises, refuse to allow anything by them anywhere near us eventually they’ll dry up and blow away like the cow dung they are.

  • Dorsey

    Damn there’s Hope. Props to alot of the female commentors. Alot of this stuff is just Hate masquerading as Empowerment. True phoniness and a see-through agenda. But I say that to say this….

    ‘Dey toe your lil ignorant, wrinkled, seething, old-wrinkled, feminazi, english teacher-looking ass up didn’t they Rosylnholcomb?

    HAHAHAAHAH.

    Oh we fina talk about you some in the nets. Why does this keep happening to you and your kind. This is like 3 freakin yrs later!!! Have you no refuge outside of your BWE IR blogs. Get a Life. Take LailaApples with you. I’m guessing that’ll work for you.

  • Laila Apples

    @ K.Michel (AT TIMES) (NOPE!) black men may not be written about at all if we focused on who is actively supporting black women and black children.

    Because at times depending on the black woman and black child a black man is NOT actively supporting them.

    Stop it with this K.Michel.

    Point to something I said that is a lie.

    K.Michel-However, I said that if Clutch only focused only on non-Black men (to the exclusion of Black men, of course), you wouldn’t complain about it the way you are now.

    First off K.Michel I don’t like that you use sneaky tactics to try and get me to swear my allegiance to black men STOP IT!!!by attempting to get me to say “oh no I am absolutely against non black men being featured here at Clutch” .
    It aint going to happen!
    I am for any man singularly or men plurally that are supporting black women.

    You don’t know me K.Michel.If Clutch only focused on people actively supporting black women and children as>>> I <<<suggested SOMETIMES there WOULD be a focus on black men and guess what SOMETIMES there WOULD NOT be a focus on black men.

    K.Michel-You know, I'd LOVE to know what group or groups of men have been (and currently are) uplifting, supporting, protecting and providing for Black women and children more than Black men do. This is a pretty big statement you've made, after all.

    From where I stand there are few groups doing this outside of black women themselves.There are not many black men doing this either.I am also curious to hear about 100 black men,black male feminists and other NON BLACK men and women who are doing things to make the lives of black women and black children easier.Whether they do these things themselves or through church organizations,the Y,boys and girls club,Shelters etc.

    However,if we are talking other men they pay taxes too K.Michel,not just black men, and we all know that a lot of black children have been on government assistance at one point.
    Also there would have to be an inclusion for men who mentor and even help raise black children who are not themselves black(think blindside) or are married to black women.How about the mostly non black police officers in many cities K.Michel?Non black male run NGO'S?Anti rape groups run by non black men and women have stepped up in support of black women and black children.

    I think all people that add good value to the lives of black women and black children should be included.

    It is not my fault that black men are not the only people or groups of people that are supporting black women and black children.

    I am sorry if that makes you feel bad K.Michel but at least you care.

  • Dorsey

    “When I have suggested that black women not focus on those kinds of black men and others,i.e John Mayer, that denigrate us there have been some black women on twitter who have suggested to me that black men and others that are saying negative things about us are causing the lives of some black women to be very difficult.”

    “Whoo-Hoo, Welcome to the Party…Kegs on the Right”

    Cause we’re definoitely here to pay back what you and the Gang have been dishing out these last few decades. And oh, you ain’t SEEN difficult yet. We’re just coming up to bat. You’ve been boring, predictable, destructive and saturated your market and there’s better stuff out there than man-hatred now. You’ve “Pong’d” yourself. Don’t beg Clutch to do the same just because your sad movement is sputtering.

  • Laila Apples

    I never mentioned you as hating or bashing black men @roslynholcomb.
    I personally took you as being altogether uninterested when it comes to black men.
    That’s not hate IMO.

    I Agree @Sounds good to me, unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the direction those articles take. Until and unless black women divest themselves of the notion of ownership and kinship with those type men they will continue to find themselves “wincing” over what they say. Essentially those men bear a pathological hatred for black women, and probably for women in general
    If we starve the beast, ie ignore them, don’t support their endeavors or enterprises, refuse to allow anything by them anywhere near us eventually they’ll dry up and blow away like the cow dung they are.

    Good suggestion@ If we starve the beast, ie ignore them, don’t support their endeavors or enterprises, refuse to allow anything by them anywhere near us eventually they’ll dry up and blow away like the cow dung they are.

  • Laila Apples

    Dorsey you aint doing nothing to me in fact i’m laughing at you.

    But I do think that since you outed yourself that you are numbered with the Young Bergs and Slim Thugs that perhaps your admirers will take notice.

  • Dorsey

    “If we starve the beast, ie ignore them, don’t support their endeavors or enterprises, refuse to allow anything by them anywhere near us eventually they’ll dry up and blow away like the cow dung they are.”

    PeeKAboo…
    Stillll heeere. How’s the tactic working?

    This ain’t Bewitched. We ain’t going nowhere. Run Forest…we’re coming!

  • Dorsey

    LailaApples? The insane never stop laughing either..

    There’s lil bits and pieces of your previous carcass all over this thread. Well Done! You did it to yourself. Don’t hate on me. Discuss it with the Keyboard.

    Uh, What a Smackdown!!! Glad I clicked on Clutch today.

  • Laila Apples

    the only black women who need to be coming up with a tactic are the ones that would allow swine like you in their inner circle.

    They should also be concerned with their livelihood.

  • Laila Apples

    and I think you should go get some mental help.You are truly insane.

  • Dorsey

    Hey, now don’t go bringing that 3-legged goat you call Mom into this. She “baaahhd” that my “oink” was sexy sooooo..

    and I was drunk.
    and a lil sick.

    But LOOK! We got you!
    on second thought…

  • Dorsey

    Rough day huh. Hey, that’s what happens in the open field of thought. Occasionally you end up looking pretty stupid. There’s always tomorrow. Maybe you can spread your hate then.

    Buck-Up!

  • secretaddy

    I like how the people that comment on this thread utilize

    ageism – that BS abt her not being the demographic for Clutch, based on the appearance of her age, is just stupid. You could have made ur argument without this. Shame on you

    sexism- ofcourse if “feminazi” and women want to empower themselves they DARE not critique a magazine for it’s subjects of male dominance

  • secretaddy

    Dorsey is a troll ignore her/him. She hasn’t offered anything of substance, just insulting commentators and using ageist commentary (esp @rosylnholcomb) to back up her point.

  • Wello

    @ QueenofNewcastle you’re in the UK to. Cheryl is everywhere ekk.

    what i mean when i say creating space its being able to talk about things that effect black women and to open a dialogue, a “space” for us in the discussion of black issues and i would love to see that translate into a real physical one. where i am in London i see many black girls that need black female mentors. so many are lost or feel they need to be like X. they need someone to show them all the wonderful different ways you can be a black woman. Clutch is a progressive start to that “space” we need.

    what i mean when i say black women are work mules is often when black issues are discussed it focuses on black men. when there is a discussion about womens issues its from a white western perceptive .
    we are expected to support womens issues without making it relative to the black woman experience and expected to support black issues without making it relevant to black woman experience. black men can talk about how hard it is being a black man and not have to pick.
    this support is part of the work mule expectation i referred to earlier. in the civil right movement many black women had to put aside their black woman struggle to fight for a vision of black person-hood that centred around black men first wave white american feminist wanted black women bring black impacted their womanhood. many black women that responded to the womens movement were heckled and shouted down by white feminist that claimed to care about WOMENS(meaning ALL WOMEN) rights but by not acknowledging the black female experience they were imposing THEIR vision of womanhood on black women, a very white experience, their white womanhood. many left and never looked at womens rights again or formed their own black feminist groups.

    when we talk about black crime its about black men. when we talk about black education we talk about black men and black male .i never see an effort to focus on black women we don’t have a “space”. instead we’re usually somewhere in the background and nothing more than supporting actor to the story of black male suffering. how many black woman mentors have you heard mentioned when taking about black education? black girls aren’t doing as well as our non-black peers either, we need that guidance to if you TRULY want to tackle black education.

    black issues means ALL black issues including black female issues.i have no clue why some black men (& women)have an issue supporting things that are mainly for the benefit of black women but demand black woman support black male issues WTF?? this entitlement NEEDS to die. i will not live out my black womanhood through other people, i have my own body. how about we truly support each other without treating black women like property? Slavery is over. just because i want to talk about black women doesn’t mean i want to disregard or ignore black men, i just want to focus on black women.My point is i want to see more “spaces” and progressive ones, for black women, like here.

  • Dorsey

    Shut-up Stupid. Been here a long while. You might be a bit young and dumb. But kids need whores too so your in luck so the the ageism is moot. And if anyone knows roslynholcomb insulting remarks about black men over the years, all for nought huh Roslyn Holcomb?, they’d know better. 3-5 yrs later? That’s a DAMN shame! Now smurf-off “she who fears speaking to her superiors directly”. Ain’t you got a direct gaze to avoid.

    How long have you been so cowardly? Do you tie weights to your tail to keep it between your legs? Tape?

    Chump!

  • Wello

    @Maurice
    There are mens magazine that don’t discuss womens issues, women mags owe NO obligation to mention mens issues.
    it doesn’t HAVE to but women especially black ones are socialised to establish their womanhood around other people. be it children, husband or family. its one thing to mention the opposite sex its another thing to write an apology letter to stroke their egos and remind them they are still loved. this isn’t the place for it.

    when men chose to be alone nothing is wrong with him but if women expresses such a wish there is something wrong or nobody wants her. its a larger problem with society. also men need to start building other modules of what it means to be a man because most of the time it doing so by having control of other people. there are men that

    “Frankly, I have no use for an online mag of any kind if it’s focused solely of being happy go lucky 24/7…I need to be challenged in what my perceptions are whether right or wrong and how to progress forward.” you have entitlement issues.
    OMG was bang on. this is a mag for black women why does it matter what you want? “i have” “my perceptions” “I need” again why should YOU or what YOU want matter? mens magazines don’t cater to women readers. giving your input and demanding YOUR needs be met are two different things. like i said this entitlement to be the centre of womans universe must die.

  • Miriam

    Do publications for Black women have an obligation to solely focus on women? Speak on it.

    My reply:
    1.YES, publications that are advertised for black women DO have an obligation to focus on women: NOT doing so is puffery, theft, and deception.

    2.NO ONE is stopping black men from creating their own publications that focus on “black love” and “ the black family” exclusively or publications that focus on the “good works” of modern black men.

    3.Publications shouldn’t feel “entitled” to black women’s loyalty or support just because it claims to be a publication for our ethnic group: publications must compete for and earn OUR financial support and customer loyalty like other magazines must do for their customers. We are NOT obligated to accept what said publication dishes out.

    4.The race of my husband is black, but he is not American. I have several colleagues who are inter-racially married, and many co-religionists who are inter-culturally married like myself. Focusing on the pathologies, dysfunctions, and grief of African American men is a set up for failure. Focusing on the gendered warfare, and pain between African Americans couples is also another set up for failure. Understand that many of us partnered and mated with men from all over the planet. Understand that many of us are BEYOND tired of reading, seeing, and listening to mentally unbalanced information. I AM living a pretty peaceful, stable, and abundant life—I have NO desire to read about those who aren’t ( or worse who don’t think I deserve to) unless it’s in a social justice capacity.

    5.Relationship columns are a part of EVERY woman’s magazine. This much is true. Many of the dysfunctions and pathologies present in modern African American relationships are not present in inter-cultural and inter-racial relationships because the men have not been socialized the same way as African American men—no, I am NOT saying there are NO problems, I am saying the challenges and blessings are different.

    6.Also, there is simply too much sewerage promoted in these publications. Our dignity, grace, and class have left us as people and it’s very obvious. The encouragement of sexual orgies, swinging, polygamy, un-protected sex, going to strip/night clubs to find mates, coddling criminals, and not isolating child molesters in our midst is the foulest print journalism I have ever known to exist. I have no desire to read pornography cleverly disguised as pseudo relationship advice from so called authors who has never set foot in graduate school. When black men are including in black women’s magazines the content always degenerates into accommodating misogyny, abuse, sexual addiction, irresponsibility, and un-compassion. Furthermore, their inclusion becomes OUR delusion, in the sense that all the content will directed toward gaining their attention, validation, and acceptance instead of seeking those things within ourselves or at least from deserving people such as ones mother. I am not spending every waking hour occupied with male validation and my husband would be horrified and offended if he thought that I were.

    7.Finally, the bone of this matter is that many black women are cutting off ALL resources ( Financial, political, social) to those who don’t support them: when you focus on African American men the magazine looses value for all the reasons I’ve listed above. The fact that this question had to be ask illustrates how enmeshed our identity is with males that we can’t even identify our needs and expectations without them. How incredibly horrible and sad…

  • Miriam

    @K. Michel

    I am totally APALLED at your behavior during this conversation. You have just demonstrated exactly what happens when women can’t identify their own needs, rights, and expectations without attaching themselves to men—as if that’s something abnormal or unhealthy. I consider your behavior emotionally battery:
    You have NO right to dictate to black women what we need, expect, or are entitled to when the space is supposed to be for US not YOU. You are violating boundaries when you do so, which is exactly why I think the focus should be on US.
    This is exactly why “thinking” black women won’t read magazines such as this: no concept of healthy boundaries…It is true that there are black women who prefer black men and black family. But thats for US to decide NOT you or other men.

    Wow!

  • Dorsey

    I’m over
    here Coward

    turn around.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    Straw man arguments Miriam.

  • http://kmichelpress.blogspot.com/ K. Michel

    “I am totally APALLED at your behavior during this conversation. You have just demonstrated exactly what happens when women can’t identify their own needs, rights, and expectations without attaching themselves to men—as if that’s something abnormal or unhealthy. I consider your behavior emotionally battery:” (Miriam)

    I’m sorry you feel that way.

    Do you consider my “behavior” emotional battery simply because I hold a contrary view to yours and I’m a man to boot? I didn’t call anyone names, nor was I abusive. Worse has been said on this very thread, and you didn’t address them …probably because you agree with what they’re saying, even though they themselves are much more worthy of the title that you’re “trying” to bestow on me.

    Or are you simply trying to put me in my place as “the big, scary Black man” and all? If so, then you should simply focus on the points that I’ve made and why you disagree with them.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @ K. Michel

    Some of the women in here are embarrassingly hysterical.

  • African Mami

    @roselynholcomb….

    Quit with the exaggeration PRONTO.

  • Pema

    Clutch is a women’s magazine. All women’s magazines talk about men because that is what MOST women are interested in. Now, here’s my problem with black women’s magazines (i.e. Clutch, Essence): too much generalization and too much victim speech. Sometimes I leave this website totally depressed at the tone of some of the content. If I didn’t know any better I would think all black men “ain’t $*&!” and all black women are angry, lonely, undesirable, somewhat color struck, crazed feminists.

    The statistics about our community aren’t pretty but our publications tend to focus on them too much. Yes 42% of black women have never been married. Um…that means that 58% have been. Thus the majority of black women will marry and they will mostly marry black men. So why aren’t there ANY articles about married black women? Instead we work ourselves into a frenzy over the comments of “Slim Thug” like he is the only black man in the world or a desirable one at that. We feed into the negativity and then wonder why we aren’t represented more favorably in mainstream media.

  • KingJason

    Well stated. There is a small but loud faction of Black women that REALLY hate Black men. I’m too grown and intelligent to let crazy people bother me but it is sad.

  • S.

    I co-sign this!

  • hehe

    Ok comments like this I can see a point to but the comments listed above about not mentioning Black men at all or mentioning men of other races is just tragic to me. Yes I would like to see more positive stories about black relationships and but to get upset at the mere mention of black men is nothing but divisive behavior.

  • KingJason

    The Black community is made up of Black women and men you can’t deny half of who you are not to mention a natural part of your audience base. There are plenty of nutty-a@@ black men hating blogs to soothe the nutcases.

  • Maurice

    @Wello: Re-read my comments and never once did I demand for men, black men, to have their thoughts, ideas. and/or issues discussed let alone mine. Clutch can decide on what topics will be discussed and I’m sure if they conduct a poll for future article suggestions they’ll oblige. If they want to salute BM…amen, if they call attention to BM’s behaviors/issues that’s detrimental to ourselves or to the BW/WOC in our lives…amen. Clutch does far more BW than I’ve seen anywhere else online and I’m not complaining. I applaud it…embrace it.

    You and others really need to get off the BM ain’t ish mentality. Not that you’re surprised but there are men….black men who are concerned about black women/women of color issues/subject matter. I know it’s hard to believe for many of you out there. But let’s not castrate all men…black men at that.

    Something you said here:
    “when men chose to be alone nothing is wrong with him but if women expresses such a wish there is something wrong or nobody wants her. its a larger problem with society. also men need to start building other modules of what it means to be a man because most of the time it doing so by having control of other people. there are men that”

    I don’t like the double standards between men and women, race, etc….it exists whether you, me, or anyone else likes it…make some changes…get out there to make things better if you don’t like what you see. The power is yours!

    I said this: “Frankly, I have no use for an online mag of any kind if it’s focused solely of being happy go lucky 24/7…I need to be challenged in what my perceptions are whether right or wrong and how to progress forward.”

    Here what you said @Wello: “you have entitlement issues. OMG was bang on. this is a mag for black women why does it matter what you want? “i have” “my perceptions” “I need” again why should YOU or what YOU want matter? mens magazines don’t cater to women readers. giving your input and demanding YOUR needs be met are two different things. like i said this entitlement to be the centre of womans universe must die.”

    It’s my right to be concerned about BW’s matters and I can voice that…any man can. Some of us BM have daughter’s and desire to understand as best as possible the trials, tribulations and the victories they go through. Most importantly, to be there for the little girls, young ladies, and women in our lives as they navigate through life’s journey.

    Entitlement? That’s not enititlement thats’s called searching to be intellectually, mentally, and emotionally stimulated when looking for information. @Wello if Clutch wasn’t giving you what you need or needed you would not be here or on any other blog…ok!

    No where in my comments did I state I felt entitled nor demanded anything. I merely made a point from my perspective just like Clutch does with their articles. Me and any other man can come here if we choose to participate in the ongoing discussions.

    p.s. The center of my universe is Jesus Christ first…period! Then everything else after that is gravy :-)

  • Chelsea

    I agree with some of the readers…I have dated more guys that aren’t Black than guys that aren’t. Honestly there are times when I don’t enjoy the articles where they are constantly focusing on Black men and what we need to do to make them happy or whatever it may be…because if you scan a magazine geared towards Black men you can’t help but notice they’re talking about the new hot Latina so there is no need to only focus our articles about men only on the idea that that’s who we wre dating or want to be with, maybe we can just talk about men haha just my thoughts.

  • Chelsea

    Oops I meant I dated more guys that aren’t Black than guys that are = ) excuse the errors ladies.

  • Wello

    @Maurice

    criticising behaviour i that is common isn’t me saying black men aren’t sh*t but you seem to have no problem co-signing with some of the stuff that generalised about black women. i’m talking about some black men but its common so that group is big and it should be tackled like any destructive behaviour or thoughts

    like i said before, nothing is wrong putting in your input but when you said “i have no use” well no, it doesn’t matter what you do and do not have “use” for because clutch isn’t aimed at you. its one thing if you voice concern because you want something more intellectual for women in your life but thats not what you addressed in that quote. you addressed YOUR NEEDS; “i have” “my perceptions” “i need”, no mention of your loved ones there and to be under any impression in this context that they your “perception”,”needs”, “wants” matter and IS entitlement and is a form of demanding.

    the way entitlement works is you don’t think you are displaying entitled thinking and you probably don’t see it.

    i know there are black men that care and i don’t find that fact hard to believe but when blackwomen are in the lime light its never to build us up and when we do address issues that effect us we got and 3x married comedian to give us relationship advice. Steve Harvey needs to sit his ass down and not tell me what to “think like”, or another comedian to talk about “good hair”. 2 comedians to address serious issues: ha ha we’re a joke.

    criticism is hard to take but it needs to be listened to than brushed off as bashing. i have no use to tear anyone down. its not what i’m about nor is it helpful but that doesn’t mean i won’t be critical. some of bashing steams from frustration, especially if you feel beaten down and ignored.

    you don’t come across ill intentioned. nor am i trying to paint you as a bad guy but i’m critical of all ideas. ideas are powerful things and with power can mess up lives.

    this part isn’t aimed at you maurice but i don’t understand rationalising serious specific issues by making it less prominent by excusing it with “all” so because it happens to everyone or other people its not that/as important anymore?erasures are just as bad as the oppressors. expecting an oppressed group to ignore oppression or not let it effect them is complete BS, ignore sexism & it will go away; i wish.
    “All magazines are charged with exploiting women’s insecurities. Maybe women shouldnt be so darn insecure to begin with.” this is what i’m referring to in my statement

    This oppressive privilege based or identified behaviour QueenofNewcastle *sigh*.i still don’t think your a black woman and if you are, seek an existence outside black men. you can be supportive of someone while not living vicariously through them & have self ascribed ideas, problems, activity etc as well. everyone should do this, its healthy.

  • kim

    Yes KingJason, the Black community is made up of Black women and Black men. It is not made up of Hispanic, White, Asian or whatever females black men bring into the equation. It would have been better if you took that statement too your fellow Black men and schooled them on that issue.

    My life and who I am has nothing to do with where you put your penis. I am all for Clutch or Essence or what ever magazine talking about black men, because I personally know a whole lot of darn good ones. I just have no interest in discussing those of you whose “preference” is other. What the heck does that have to do with me? Nothing. Keep it moving.————>

  • Laila Apples

    @QueenofNewcastle I’m not throwing white women under the bus at all.

    Why would I do that

    It is not those poor white hoes fault that the black men that run those magazines
    1. exploit underaged black girls like Chessika Cartwright
    and 2. pay more money to their white hoes than they do their black hoes.

    Isn’t that what lots of blacks would describe as racism btw.When you do the same job as someone else but get paid less because of your color?

  • Maurice

    @Wello: Some of your points are considered and I do not co-sign with many of the generalizations about BW…although there’s truth to some of them just like with black men or any group of people. If I came across as irate at you I’m sorry it’s very frustrating because I have a teenage daughter and I’m already seeing her deal with this nonsense amongst us….utterly pathetic!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ashley-Sykes/1065177536 Ashley Sykes

    whoever said something about “ageism” (i forgot who said it aha) you are so right. i noticed lately that uppity clutchettes have been going on about people being to young to have certain opinions on things NOW they’re saying that someone is too old SMH

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ashley-Sykes/1065177536 Ashley Sykes

    you are so right! thats all you see in black men’s magazines is other women. yes they have black women but other women too. black women’s magazines only have black men but some people choose to date interracially.(god i hate that word!) why dont black women’s magazines talk about sexy “other” men?

    i’ve also noticed that whenever people talk about interracial dating its always black/white. a lot of women black arent into white men so they’re turned off by interracial dating. i dated a white guy but i realize that i lean more towards hispanic men. i also dated a middle eastern man as well. “interracial” is more than just white men.

    i say we have more men from all over. lemme say that korean dudes can GET IT! just look up peter le on google and you’ll pass out ladies i swear!Lol

  • Lauren

    Please!! I’m done with this victim crap from black women in case you all haven’t noticed many of YOU ain’t perfect either so stop acting like the problems with black couples doesn’t include you too! I swear a lot of black women have such a damn problem with the ‘woe is me’ meme that you all start to believe your own b.s. and apparently think your s**t don’t stink but your load of crap does. It takes TWO to tango and if there are so many problems and the black community is so ‘troubled’ maybe you need to find out how much of it is your fault instead of always trying to find blame with anyone but yourselves.

  • D-Chubb

    Last I checked, this was still a free country…for the time being anyway. If you’re “done with this victim crap from black women,” you’re welcome to not read it. This is ain’t A Clockwork Orange. Nobody’s holding your eyelids open.

  • kim

    And you need to figure out why you frequent and comment on a web site CLEARLY directed at black women. You are telliing on yourself, because you are not a black women. You are simply an envious, jealous, missdirected person who has failed in your llife and want to place the blame at the feet of black women. Because you feel you have been cheated in your life, does not mean you need to come here and take out your agressions on black folk. Why don’t you take a time out and figure out why you are here if black women are so bad. No black woman in her right mind would make blanket statements about a whole group of people she is a part of, because she would be talking about herself. You are silly and childish and it is people like you who are the most destructive to anything postive ever happening anywhere.

  • http://kmichelpress.blogspot.com/ K. Michel

    I agree with kim. She actually echoes my own sentiments, and as an African-American man… I can say that this is a positive step in the right direction for African-American women everywhere.

  • http://kmichelpress.blogspot.com/ K. Michel

    Lauren, why are you here? If you had an interest in Black women, then I’d understand your presence here. However, to try and berate African-American women… on a magazine catered to Black women? Are you on Latina-based magazines doing the same, or do African-American women just hold a special place in your heart?

  • Miriam

    @ Queen of New Castles
    This publication is ASKING/SOLICITING feedback on the issue. I have MY feedback. I truly don’t care who doesn’t like it. If this publication doesn’t have the intellectual muscle to hear constructive criticism perhaps they shouldn’t solicit feedback!

  • Miriam

    Both WOMEN and men benefit from male privilege based on dominance and aggression. The resistance and hatred being displayed by black women toward other black woman is a great example of how these women benefit from the current status quo: many of these women are profiting off of your black back and are still enmeshed with black men—even to their own detriment.

    Thinking black women no longer have an incentive to support “black” businesses or really any race based program that doesn’t serve them. This isn’t about black men screaming—it’s about the black women who also supported black male entitlement because they profited from it.

    Good luck

  • Miriam

    Wow! what a great example of a male identified woman!

  • kim

    Darn,
    How many screen names do you have.

  • Alexandra

    @ kim

    You’re funny. In reading many of these comments, I’m glad I’m not the only one that noticed the same thing.
    Anyone who has reads/frequents this site, knows typical comments that comes from a specific poster. It’s a new year, so they got a new (or more) screen name lol!!

    He/she been gone for a while and then all the sudden new names start popping up debating topics, they usually avoided? lol. So obsessed.

  • Alexandra

    Yeah like binks mentioned, you forgot to mention why a lot of those comments were made in the first place. “We” still Love you? “Ego Stroking”? Just because some women didn’t co-sign it, they have deep-seeded issues? Come on.

    I think in the recent years a lot of people have let the media deter their view of the opposite sex. In this case: some Black women have. But I gotta agree with the posters that mentioned yes it’s pathetic when the tone of some of the articles are filled with victim-hood. “Wahhh why cant I find a man” “ZOMG I’m gonna be single” “Black men like White/Light women”! Please stop.

    And I cant help but think that a lot of this comes from a false sense of entitlement. Black women do not own Black men. I always cringe when people feel the need to say “our (insert gender)”. Who are you really?
    A lot of magazines for women talk about men. But when you’re trying to base the value of women on what men want/like, how to do expect people to react? And then you have those who just cant keep Black men out their mouths? Black male magazines arent sitting around talking about Black women and what they like? And… like some other people mentioned they feature all kinds of women in their mags. Black women mags just seem to be stuck in the pubes of Black men. There I said it.

    It will do of great help to “some” Black women if some could hop of their penises for a minute and think straight.

  • Isis

    lmaooo @ these chicks saying black women have entitlement issues when it comes to black men. Hilarious. Let white men start praising/obsessing over non-white women in white magazines and see how happy that makes white women. Some of yall are delusional as hell and simply have no self-love if you don’t want the men that YOU birth to love/admire/praise YOU. A hot mess. lawd Black wmen don’t need black men to diss us cuz we do it enough to ourselves. lmaoooo again @ the sentiment of hopping on a penis makes a person happier. lawd

  • Alexandra

    What dont you understand. Just because your father is Black and helped create you, you have rights to all Black men now? You’re free to assume. But a couple of pages back you were victimizing yourself, complaining about Black men not loving, black women. Get over yourself.

    “lawd Black wmen don’t need black men to diss us cuz we do it enough to ourselves”

    Ahh lawd!!! Take your own advice. You said I’m delusional, I have no self-love, what else?

  • Isis

    Who the fuck said anything about rights to any damn one?? But black women are supposed to love black men who openly diss us when he came from a black woman?? You’re saying black women are stuck in the pubes of black men but the majority of the comments, mine included, were saying lets not talk about them. Stop praising them, stroking their egos, etc for them to turn around and diss us. Chick please get your story straight. If anything women like YOU are stuck in the pubes of black men. Praising them, obsessing over them and he spits in your face and you make an excuse for why he did it. I said let Clutch be all about black women and black women only. Love yourself and stop hanging off the balls and making excuses for black men who don’t give a shit about you. Don’t put words in my mouth little self hating girl

  • Isis

    I hate when I write a long comment and it doesn’t show up.

  • Isis

    @Alexandra don’t put words in my mouth little self-hating girl. I didn’t say shit about owning anyone. Sounds to me like YOU are the one hanging off the balls of black men. I said along with many other posters lets not praise and obsess over them on Clutch because black women can’t get equal billing in black men’s magazines.

  • Alexandra

    Wow again, take your own advice. I’m not one to argue and go back and forth on here. I dont have the time.

    I’ll just say, you might wanna re-read my comment and yours, before trying to analyze my comment on entitlement. Seems like you misinterpreted my post.
    Where did I write hopping on penis makes someone happy? What?

  • Isis

    U should do the same. thanks

  • Clnmike

    I definitely see an agree with the argument that a woman’s magazine should focus exclusively on women, what I don’t see is the case made by some that Clutch does little of that and out right caters to black male. Maybe its me but I don’t see this over abundance of black male ego stroking on Clutch, but than again I am a male so maybe there just not doing enough for my taste, lol. All of articles on this site that I recall reading have taken an interest on ALL things that may have an impact or slight influence on the lives of black women for good or bad. Now like it or not some of those impacts are made by black men for good or bad of the well being of black women ignoring that would be irresponsible. Plenty of times I have seen articles that seem to make generalisation of the nutty behavior of some black men but you can’t ignore the behavior because that crap can spread like a disease if unchecked. There are articles that praise men for doing something nice that cause that positivity spreads like fire too if you fan the spark enough. If your tired of a particular subject in an article hit the next one over, I’m sure it will be more to your liking. That’s what I do.

  • QueenofNewcastle

    @Miriam

    Perhaps this is my little cynical self but it has been my experience that the less male identified a woman is the older and less value she has in the sexual market place. I mean if you have no foreseeable future with a man, you risk nothing throwing them under the bus. On the other hand, that particular line of abuse is usually said by black women who have NO problem identifying with other races of men. Irony alert.

  • Laila Apples

    @Queen of New Castle so what you are saying is anytime someone brings up negative behaviors of some black men they are throwing ALL black men under the bus?And they do this because they are old and they don’t have sexual value because they are old?

    what?

    There are a ton of young women and sexually valuable people that throw specific black men under the bus everyday based on their experience with said black man.

    @QONC You are not black male identified you are low down dirty nasty male identifed.You have sat up here on this thread and even defended black male pedophiles by trying to put blame on people’s parents when you do not even know if someone’s parent is allowing them to pose in a magazine or if the child is a runaway..You have defended ALL black men even the bad one’s I can no longer take you seriously.

    I fully expect that any woman that listens to you in regards to black males and takes you seriously will very much so end up a domestic violence victim someday.Not because they are with a black man but because if it’s up to you black women would have no standards AT ALL for black men.And there would be no repucssions,not even a lifting of voices to air out the dysfunctions,for the negative behaviors of some black males.

  • L.Y. Endings

    i think that when clutch writes articles on black men, what was once just a gender issue then becomes a racial issues as well.
    maybe it’s just me but race, gender, and relationships are 3 things I WILL NOT BE DISCUSSING IN 2011 ! ! ! ! !

  • Clnmike

    Yes you will.

  • Nikki

    I appreciate Clutch’s discussion of Black men. As the critiques point out, no not all of us are romantically involved with black men, but IF we identify as black women, then we do have black male cousins, uncles, fathers, brothers, sons, and friends. We can not pretend or be so egotistical as black women to think that we are disconnected from Black men completely, and that we can avoid their existence in print. I love black men dearly, in multiple capacities, and would like to see more Black women admit to doing so as well, even if it means opening up an article space or two to discuss them.

  • Steve P.

    I’m a male and I read this site. Its a great site and it totally doesn’t bash males or writes about them too much. This is why I continue to visit it. Its a great site. Not just for females but for people that like to read good articles…period.

    Keep it up clutch

  • http://EbonyNewsChannel.blogspot.com ebonynewschannel

    I appreciate ANY magazine that is marketed to black females that also REMEMBERS that we have a male counterpart that looks like us, that we also give BIRTH to black males, come from the SEED of black males and for those of us who aren’t as unfortunate as I suspect the black male HATERS may have been, were RAISED by loving, and wonderful black males. The mental illness that needs ones opposite sex counterpart cancelled out of the equation seems to be PARTICULAR to black females in the Western Hemisphere who have been victimized in the System of White Supremacy (Racism) so much, that not ONLY DO THEY HATE THEMSELVES, but they HATE their male counterpart and reflection. I suspect this is why the reason for opposition would at times be, “Some of us aren’t even dating black males!” – as if that has ANYTHING to do with whether or not black males should be mentioned in a magazine marketed to their wives, daughters, sisters, cousins, nieces, girlfriends and friends.

    Despite the delusions of some, black females will CEASE TO EXIST without black males. I know that some have the habit (due to conditioning) of calling anyone with one black parent or any African identified feature “black” no matter how remote the resemblance is, but a black female cannot reproduce herself by herself. I can’t imagine such an imbalance in any other group of people. Imagine if the White women who read Cosmo or Marie Claire or whatever other magazines are marketed to White women stopped publishing articles about White men because White women HATED seeing their male counterparts in their magazines.. or if Spanish language magazines did the same.

    The people who wrote those letters have psychological issues with their own self images and should SERIOUSLY consider getting counseling. I STRONGLY suggest a few sessions ( if not MANY) with medical doctor and psychiatrist, Dr. Frances Cress Welsing.

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