Will the ‘Real Women’ Please Stand Up?
Have you ever uttered one of these statements?
“Real women have a little meat on their bones.”
“Real women don’t need to depend on anyone.”
“Real women don’t sleep around.”
“Real women know how to take charge.”
“Real women know how to treat a man.”
And my personal favorite, “Real women do real things.”
If so, stop.
While these catchy phrases seem to give props to sisters who are handling their business and owning their self-worth, they actually do little more than continue to set up contentious relationships between women. Inevitably some of us will be left out of whatever definition a “real women” is intended to encompass.
Case in point, “Real women aren’t a size two.”
Recently, I was watching The View and Beyoncé and her mother, Tina Knowles, were on the show promoting their newest ventures. Mama Knowles was hawking her affordable fashion line and had brought along a few outfits for a mini-fashion show. During the show, which featured models of varying sizes, Sherri Shepherd remarked that she was impressed that Tina Knowles used different types of models.
“Not many people will show you, they usually will have the slinky size two model, and we never know how it will fit on real women. And the fact that you bring up two different sizes, kudos to you Ms Tina.”
Co-host, Joy Behar, quickly jumped in. “Well the thin models are real women also.”
Sherri countered, “The thin models are real women, but the average size is bigger than a two.”
Although I knew what Sherri meant, that the fashion world rarely presents realistic representations of what the average-sized American woman looks like, her comment still made me wince. Apparently, I wasn’t the only one.
After hearing her comments, several petite women in my Twitter timeline expressed offense at what they felt was Sherri taking a jab at them for somehow being less than “real women” because of their size.
According to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, the average woman in the United States is 63.8″ tall (about 5’3″) and weighs 164.7 pounds, so if we were to measure what a “real woman” is by those standards, a lot of us would be left out.
The debate over the ideal body type of a “real woman” continues to divide us. From the “skinny bitches are evil” meme, to the line of thinking that overweight women are lazy and advocates of poor health, we continue to lose if we take sides and buy into the mentality that some of us are “real women” while others are not worthy of the title. Not only does this thinking do little to build real self-esteem, it causes us to diminish our collective power as women.
When conversations like these occur, I’m reminded of the power, and problematic nature, of generalizations. If we start to classify certain types of women as “real women,” what happens to those of us who do not fit neatly into the box? And moreover, who decides who is and is not a “real woman”?
Historically, women have had to live within rigid ideas about femininity. Compared to men, we were considered naturally weaker, less intelligent, and unable to perform tasks that involved physical strength. In pre-industrial societies, for example, women were relegated to domestic tasks, leaving more physically demanding tasks, such as hunting and plowing, to men (although Black women were often times forced to handle such demanding tasks as well). Moreover, women have also had to operate under double standards that seek to strip them of their sexual freedom.
Although such unyielding ideas about women were primarily created by men and a patriarchal society, many of us continue to perpetuate these antiquated ideas that do more to oppress, and little to uplift.
But why?
Some sisters cling to the label, “real women,” like it’s some sort of banner that sets them apart from those they consider undesirable. For instance, some of us who rock natural hair mistakenly consider ourselves more “real” than our sisters who relax or alter their hair. As if how we look determines our “real woman” status. Another sticking point for many of us is how other women behave. We sometimes label those who are sexually free as “wrong” (or whores, or sluts), and those who are more “pious” or less open about their sexuality somehow “better” because they’re behaving more like a “lady should.”
This “I am a ‘real woman’ but you’re not” attitude repeats itself over and over again in terms of how we look, dress, how we act, and how we view each other, but it needs to stop.
The media constantly focuses on the supposed cattiness and jealousy of women, but most of us are to quick to point out our love for our girls. However, we need to be aware of how we treat the women we don’t know, and, even more, how we talk about ourselves if we are to foster any sort of true and lasting bond as women.
When it all comes down to it, all women are “real women.” No matter our age, size, race, attitude, sexual history, or body type. And whether you’re discussing Nicki Minaj, Jada Pinket, Oprah, Lil’ Kim, Michelle Obama, your mother, or yourself, we are all women and we no longer need to separate ourselves by false barriers in order to feel good about ourselves.
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jazzyphile on
Why is Raven Symoné’s Sexuality Your Business?
She sure as heck kept it on the low while she was milking the Disney-Good Girl money. I guess she milked that tit dry.
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jazzyphile on
No Romance Without Finance?
Wasn't Obama pretty much broke and in debt with college loans when he hooked up with Michelle?
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CK1 on
Why is Raven Symoné’s Sexuality Your Business?
Bravo to her. I think more celebrities ... gay or straight ... should keep their personal lives to themselves.
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myblackfriendsays on
Pump Your Fist, Arsenio Hall is the New Celebrity Apprentice
He broke a lot of barriers on his show in the 90's. I would love to see him back on TV regularly.
I understand where you’re coming from, and as I told Carol, I’m sure that fat people get harassment and hate everyday, I’ve just never witnessed it in real life. But you make my point perfectly in that as far as I see, fat people think its okay to bash skinny ones and that they should take it simply because they are thin. As if somehow larger people have larger feelings or something. Its annoying and i just want the bullshit to end!
Thank you so much for this post. I did write about this on my website and I have struggled with my petitie frame my whole life. I was teased my whole life… Because I’m thin I have no right to be offended when Mo’Nique calls me a Skinny “B.” Because I’m thin I’m not allowed to complain about how I find it difficult to shop. Because I’m thin I can’t be upset when someone asks how much I weigh. What if the average American woman was 200lbs?! That wouldn’t make it right to pander to the 200lbs woman (it isn’t healthy). I’m not saying it is harder to be thin than “curvy”… but I’m just as touchy about my weight as some “big girls.” So remember the grass isn’t always greener on the other side…
Nothing else to say, except that you’re right. Things said with a hot head are not usually wise/effective and I’m not sure how I let myself get to this state. I meant what I said, just shouldn’t have said it. Thanks for the wake-up call.
*claps*
Great article, I’ am so sick and tired of slogans in general from the “real women have this” or “these type of women do it better” etc. etc. Like someone said if you have a vagina you are a real women. I think these slogans and sayings hurt and divide us more than they uplift because in other to make you feel better about yourself you have to throw shade at the next woman that don’t look like you. Celebrate all women, I understand wanting to fight against the grain of what society and the media deem as solely “beautiful” but there is so much better ways to do it. When it comes to size and weight I do agree that we don’t always agree on it and the converstation can get harsh
To Carol N. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!! Can you please pitch an article to Clutch about thin privilege? A lot of commenters on here could read a few articles about the issue.
I didn’t mean to make this a fat vs. thin debate, but when you read comments complaining about being called names about being skinny and in those same comments make sweeping generalizations on whether all fat women are unhealthy gluttons, it makes you scratch your head.
Whether your as low as a size 00 or as big as a 30, your a woman and let nobody tell you otherwise. That’s the best way I can think of ending my comment.
“there is no suffering scale and nobody has the right to insist the pain of their experiences hurt more than another’s (i.e. a fat person’s painful experiences hurt more and cut deeper than those of a skinny individual!!)” I believe this is the underlying point. No one can tell another one that their plight is less then the others. Everyone feels differantly. If everyone respected everyon no matter what, this wouldn’t be an issue. Then again this isn’t a perfect world.
I’m just glad I’m officially average height. LOL I’ve always said that as a joke and assumed the average was 5’6″. Now I can back it up.
I’m average too! I’m just reading this and that little paragraph made do a quiet lil cheer at my desk, hehehe Even tho my Wii tells me i need to lose 40 lbs and i know my personal comfort range is 10 lbs less, i will take this lil acknowledgement that i’m smack in the middle of everything :D
1. It’s been shown that mortality DECREASES in the overweight category, and being slightly obese was about the same as being normal weighted in terms of mortality. Those who are underweight and extremely obese are the ones at the highest risk.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/293/15/1861.full
Showing that significant weight loss and yo yo weight cycling actually INCREASES mortality for people:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12410899
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17676383
Also, you can be fit and fat: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15942543
2. No, I did not. I never said “Oh, your pain is nonexistent because you are skinny and only fat people feel pain!” I said that fat hatred is the reason why thin women get the crap they do. It is backlash. Is it right? No, but when people are backed into a corner, they lash out, and everyone gets hurt in the process. With regards to privilege, privilege gives the lie that the one who is privileged has nothing but good come to them. It sets them up for frustration because the lie does not allow them to say that they are hurt by the very construct that elevates them. Thin privilege does this, as we clearly have the fat vs thin war going on now.
3. Fat people are punished by society in various ways:
http://www.who.int/social_determinants/resources/articles/hpjadec2006.pdf#page=100
http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/bias/WeightBiasStudy.pdf
@Carol: Up until this point, I thought you were logical, but you are completely deluded if you don’t think obesity is a medial condition and an overwhelmingly dangerous one at that; death from obesity related illness is the number one killer in this nation. So wake: obese people are the ones keeping pharmacists rich; they didn’t make you obese.
You said, “And why shouldn’t they put fat people in movies as love interests? See, that’s what I’m talking about. Fat people are bullied every single day by the media to believe that ONLY SKINNY IS BEAUTIFUL. ”
I’ll quote myself at this point: “You claim to work out, so I won’t accuse you of lying, but can you honestly sit here and say that most obese people do? Should they be praised for exhibiting gluttony and sloth while thin people are increasingly demonized for not exhibiting these weak character traits? If this society were faced with those times or some post-apocalypic scenario, you and I both know that anyone who couldn’t run for their lives, hunt down an animal, plant tons of crops without getting exhausted early, run long distances, climg a hill, be thin enough to hide under or behind something, or defend themselves from another person or animal would be the first to die, and that would include an overwhelming majority of obese people. Obesity isn’t nature’s design for any species simply because, pre-civilization constructs (like housing, law-enforcement, frozen meals, stoves, the farmers market, day-care, etc.) it was virtually a death sentence; that’s why obesity was virtually nonexistent until about 3-4 decades ago. This is also why the body type is almost universally disliked: Because it is assumed to be unhealthy (even in the rare case that it isn’t), and unhealthy=unattractive in most people’s minds. As I said before, it’s a biological instinct of most of the population to want the healthiest most attractive offspring possible; unfortunately, many obese people pass on their atrocious eating habits to their kids. Obesity may or may not be genetic (and most nutritionists, biologists, and personal trainers are leaning toward NOT) but instead of trying to make everyone think that fat is beautiful and blaming the “shallowness” of society for not excepting them, the obese can lose weight. ”
You say that you never asked for fat people to be praised yet had no reply for my comment on how nearly all obese people got that way form overeating and no exercise, probably since that’s an incovieniently hard truth pill for you to swallow. A thin person may not be healthy, but it’s not something that’s generally assumed by looking at them unless they are grossly underweight. Most rational human beings look at an obese person and see sloth, gluttony, lack of self-control, and weak willpower at work. Do you think most people want a person whose taking shitty care of themselves as a life partner or parent for their child and pass on these atrocious habits. THAT is why fat will never be socially considered beautiful, because it’s a physical display of character weaknesses and flaws.
And yes, it’s strange that saying a fat person has a gut or cellulite, all of which are true is offensive and bashing, but bashing a thin person with profanity is turnabout.
@carol n.-thank you for providing this pretentious troll and others with the information needed to look at this situation from a more well- rounded perspective. you provided TANGBLE evidence that shows that merely being overweight or even mildly obese is not necessarily an indication of being unhealthly and that there are people who are considered to be overweight and healthly. to which i want to reiterate my original point, you cannot tell someone’s health status just by looking at them. to suggest that an overweight person is suffering from diabetes or may be medically obese, just by looking at them, when you’re not their doctor and you have no knowledge of their medical history is absurd. and you also provided TANGIBLE evidence of thin privilege.
and i agree, thin privilege (and any kind of privilege, really) and the impossible beauty ideal hurt everyone, and not just the women who are farther from it then others. if we could just disregard the kneejerk notion that thinness=healthy and fat=unhealthy, STOP SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY JUDGING PEOPLE FOR THEIR PHYSICAL APPEARANCE, and using medical studies and a prehistoric enviornment that we no longer live in as credence for why people should be margianilized, ridiculed, and discriminated against simply for carrying a extra weight on their bodies, we’d be a lot better off.
and i agree with you when you say that obesity is a social issue as well, because we NO LONGER live in a prehistoric enviornment and have to contend with the cheapeast and most easily accesible food being genetically altered variations of corn laden with preservatives. if we change the way food is made and what kind of food is available to lower income folks who live in food deserts we might see a reduction in obesity. and thinness wasn’t always seen as a sign of health. up until 100 years ago thinness was seen as a sign of malnutrition and being overweight was seen as a sign of wealth and attractiveness.http://www.obesity101.com/101-1.htm. funny now that the wealthy are more likely to be able to afford and have physical access to fresh and organic food that thiness is not only the paragon of the beauty ideal and social status, but is also a critereon for being perceived as healthy. i don’t think you can completely divorce the social issues (such as class and perceived social status) from the medical ones in how larger bodies came to be “universally dislked”.
When did it become ok to put any woman down?
What I don’t seem to understand is that when you need to uplift yourself by demeaning others don’t you go straight to the arrogant pile-’don’t collect 200 etc.’?
I agree with what the article is saying, when you need to insult other people or use put-downs to self-promote your insecure – period. Happy, confident people who have their ish together would not be calling others out on their supposed flaws or help others perpetuate supposed definitions of what women are supposed to be.
Positive people look for positive things in others, negative always seeks out negative.
I am speaking of those who are purported within this system as good. Skinny = good. So those who are within the “normal” weight and under are deemed good, while anyone who is “fat” is bad, no matter what the circumstances are. You get treated differently when you are thin. I lost weight due to anorexia, and I got plenty of compliments and encouragement from people who knew and didn’t know me. People telling me “yes! keep going! You are doing wonderfully! You look SO GOOD!” Yes, keep on encouraging the disordered girl to stop eating. My lowest weight was within the range the BMI listed as “normal” and I damn near looked like a skeleton. But I was in the normal range, and that’s a good thing. Right? Because “normal” is healthy, right?
How is insisting that fat people are disrespected regularly “unfair?” Again, politicians have actually tried to pass LEGISLATION to discriminate against fat people. You mean to tell me that doesn’t = fat hatred? And more often than not, I hear far too many comments about how being attracted to fat people = fetish. Because apparently, it’s impossible to actually be attracted to a fat person without being some type of pervert. And most of the time, it’s a thin person who is saying such things, and then claiming that fat people “can’t be happy” and are “deluding themselves” when they try to boost their self esteem in a world that tells them 24/7 that their bodies are wrong and they should exist in a state of constant apology to the world for having the nerve to exist fat.
You never answered my question: Why shouldn’t fat people be shown on television as love interests? Fat people fall in love, get married, and have sex, last time I checked. This happens in reality, so why are we so opposed to showing the same on television? Why are we denying fat people have happy lives on TV? We’ve no problem with showing thin people doing the same in every situation. Why is it wrong for fat people to want to see someone who looks like them on TV in a positive way, especially in the face of so may portrayals of them that say “you are worthless?”
Also, fat acceptance DOES address quality of life, etc. I guarantee you that FA pundits will tell you that HAES (health at every size) is their mantra. If you read the HAES study, you would see that the obese women increased in various areas of health without losing a pound. Fat people aren’t the problem. Unhealthy eating and sedentary lifestyles are the problem. Last time I checked, those two affected people of ALL sizes.
Fat acceptance does not say “you should never ever lose a pound because fat is the best thing in the world.” Fat acceptance treats weight as a neutral entity. If you exercise and eat right, and you lost some weight? Meh. If you do the same, and you didn’t lose weight? MEH. It is also against disordered eating behaviors which place morality upon food and bodies. But of course, folks don’t listen to that part of the fat acceptance moniker. They just see the first two words and go “you’re trying to force me to like fat people! I won’t do it! You are unhealthy and bad!”
As for privilege, what is your solution then? What is the way to make this fat vs thin war stop?
And like you Emelyne, I will not be bulldozed into going against MY beliefs just to appease a world that hates me.
sorry in advance for any typos or anything that might not totally make sense…i just got in and it’s the buttcrack of dawn so….
@Carol & Sloane: Here is the point I am trying to make, obesity may be a social issue, but it is a medical one as well, one that costs this nation several hundred million dollars each year and many deaths. Whether the nation and even the world has been “conditioned” to “hate” them or not, iit’s not a conditioning that’s going to go away when obese people (in general) got this way through gluttony and sloth. Sloane, you quopted my statement, “I also never said that thin= healthy, in fact not one commentor did. My exact words were, A thin person may not be healthy, but it’s not something that’s generally assumed by looking at them unless they are grossly underweight”, but then went on to imply that even as I said that, I must be saying that all thin folks are healthy. What bothers me about that statement is the hypocrisy that perhaps even you fail to realize. If a person is normal weight or thin, do YOU thin they are unhealthy at first glance? What about a woman about 5’9″ who is about 85 lbs.? She’s definitely unhealthy! That works both ways. Maybe an extra 15-30 pounds doesn’t have jaws dropping and this person could be at the peak of health, but when the average person sees someone 75-200+ lbs overweight, we assume unhealth and rightly so. As I said, compulsive overeating/emotional eating and anorexic/bulimia are all eating disorders and I will view them the same way. Not, Carol, as for why fat people (and I mean very overweight/obese, not just a bit plump) are highlighted as love interests and such, well, the demographic as a whole does not want to see that. The media’s job is to cater to trends and what is considered socially acceptable. Back to my hypocrisy comment, many commenters here would have had an anurysm to see an emaciated 80lb. Nicole Richie on the cover of a mag and told the editors to get that sick, skinny girl off of there, but enter grossly obese Gabby Sibide and women are defending her left and right. there are always exceptions posing as rules for reasons besides overeating that a woman can get to her size but we all have eyes to call anorexia/bulimia what they are. I will NOT defend extreme body types or the fat accpetance movement anymore than I’s defend someone’s right to kill themselves through anorexia/bulimia. The sad part is, overeating and the obesity that comes from it kill several thousand more people a year, so it kills people faster. Accept unhealthy as if it were unavoidable? No. Accept something life-threatening as “beautiful” when I know better? No. Try to get myself and others to find said unhealth aesthetically pleasing? No. Just because there are more obese than anorexics doesn’t somehow make the condition healthy now. As for politicians passing anti-fat legislation, I’m of two minds about that. If it cost the nation money (and it does) than it’s a problem that needs to be rectified. But everyone deserves to live and I’m not an advocate of subhuman conditions for any person. The fact is, Carol, how much of that legislation is actually passed? The world does not hate fat people, so stop trying to martyr yourself, but as I pointed out, obesity is an outer reflection og inner character flaws such as gluttony, lack of self-control, sloth, and often depression and self-hatred. Is this suppose to be tooted as normal now? Bottom line: Most people are against obese people for the same reason we’re against anorexcis; last I checked, a 80lb woman gets just as many pitying, dirty, and even hateful looks as the 400 lb one. These body extremes are BOTH seem nationwide as unhealthy and our animal instincts teel us that unhealthy=unattractive. Sorry, if that’s hard for you to deal with, but it’s a mentality that has gotten the species this far and I don’t see it changing.
Emelyne, you are twisting my words. I never said that unhealthiness wasn’t a problem. I said “fat people aren’t the problem. Unhealthy living is the problem. Last time I checked, people of ALL sizes can suffer from unhealthy living.”
Difference between an 80 lb woman and a 400 lb one? You’ll see the former on the cover of an international magazine with a multi million dollar modeling contract, while the latter is shamed and ridiculed for even thinking about putting herself in the public eye, despite any talents or personality.
So fat people being in love is socially unacceptable? Glad to know that so many around the world are slapping society in the face every day by loving each other.
Most people assume thin people = healthy. Don’t act like this assumption isn’t true. We are classically conditioned to believe this. Add on the fact that we don’t show fat people in any other situation except apologizing for their fatness, and you got a dichotomy set right up.
I also like how you conveniently ignore the health at every size mantra that I mention nearly every time I respond. That very study shows that improved health can be attained independent of weight. HAES focuses on eating right and engagement in activity. Is that not what folks want to improve health? Eating right and activity??? It just doesn’t treat weight loss as the panacea for health. It’s not.
And don’t apologize for me. I will not change my stance. HAES and HAES only.
Emelyne, you are twisting my words. I never said that unhealthiness wasn’t a problem. I said “fat people aren’t the problem. Unhealthy living is the problem. Last time I checked, people of ALL sizes can suffer from unhealthy living.”
Difference between an 80 lb woman and a 400 lb one? You’ll see the former on the cover of an international magazine with a multi million dollar modeling contract, while the latter is shamed and ridiculed for even thinking about putting herself in the public eye, despite any talents or personality.
So fat people being in love is socially unacceptable? Glad to know that so many around the world are slapping society in the face every day by loving each other.
Most people assume thin people = healthy. Don’t act like this assumption isn’t true. We are classically conditioned to believe this. Add on the fact that we don’t show fat people in any other situation except apologizing for their fatness, and you got a dichotomy set right up.
I also like how you conveniently ignore the health at every size mantra that I mention nearly every time I respond. That very study shows that improved health can be attained independent of weight. HAES focuses on eating right and engagement in activity. Is that not what folks want to improve health? Eating right and activity??? It just doesn’t treat weight loss as the panacea for health. It’s not.
And don’t apologize for me. I will not change my stance. HAES and HAES only.
LOL! I’m twisting your words? More like you’re avoiding the issue, Carol. You avoided comparing overeating to other eating disorders. You’ve avoided admitting that many obese (yes, OBESE, not just plain fat) people got their from chronic overeating and no exercise. You avoided the fat the excessive body fat is just as unattractive to most as none at all. You avoided the fat the obesity related illness id real and costs this nation hundreds of billions of dollars a year. And where exactly have you seen an 80 lb woman on a magazine cover? I know for a fact that top modeling agencies like Elite, Wilhelmina, and Ford models actually have a weight minimum for models 5’9″+(which is the only height range they manage) that is 105 lbs. That’s already really thin for a woman that height, emaciated even, but a far cry from the 80 lbs you’re claiming. and yes, i’d like to see the legislation as well. Seems you’ll do just about anything to make obese people appear to be victims of society when the only person victimizing them is themselves. SMH.
@Emelyne ;I think you re speaking the truth ,you said exactly what most people think ,unfortunatley alot of people are on denial with what you ve exposed.
Quoting you” Do you think most people want a person whose taking shitty care of themselves as a life partner or parent for their child and pass on these atrocious habits. THAT is why fat will never be socially considered beautiful, because it’s a physical display of character weaknesses and flaws.
And yes, it’s strange that saying a fat person has a gut or cellulite, all of which are true is offensive and bashing, but bashing a thin person with profanity is turnabout”
I dare anyone saying thats not the truth.if you re overweight you know its only your fault you got to that stage,you eat the wrong stuff ,you OBVIOUSLY dont burn enough calories and IF YOUR METABOLISM is HIGH then you ,again,obviously taking for granted eating TOO MUCH food.Portion control is VITAL for weight control.
For those of you who cursed Emelyne out or disagree with her,you are completely DELUSIONAL.
Fat is not healthy :FACT
Cellulite is not necessarly associated with obesity however those who SUFFER FROM THIS CONDITION are more prone to have it as its caused by water ristagnant in deeper fat cells.
If you re overweight you are doing something wrong,you re not taking good care of your body,screw society think about HEALTH,its YOUR BODY !take care of it and nourish it well ,you only have one and then you re gone.
Carol N: “How is insisting that fat people are disrespected regularly “unfair?””
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What I referred to was how some FA adherents avoid discussing certain issues i.e. obese people living lives of reduced quality where they can barely get around, can’t walk without assistance, bound to an oxygen tank etc. I did not write “insisting that fat people are disrespected regularly” was unfair; I wrote that it is unfair to lump everyone into the boxes of ‘enemy’, ‘oppressor’ and ‘culpable’ simply because they are not overweight or obese.
For some reason you sometimes twist what I clearly convey and often argue things I (and, as far as I can see, no one else) never addressed or stated but I maintain that, all day everyday, it’s unfair to judge all “skinny people” based on appearance. Additionally, it sounds strikingly close to things you insist have been done regarding the obese (automatically judged as smelly, lazy, unhealthy etc.) and, once again, just because someone is not attracted to an obese individual does not mean they wish them harm or couldn’t form a friendship.
And why do some people act as if #1) the only options are being obese or stick thin or #2) the BMI seeks to hold everyone to one particular weight or an impossible small size? There are tons of ‘wiggle room’ and the BMI has a 15-20 pound range for each height. Additionally, for each height there exists small, medium and large frame categories each with their own 15-20 pound weight ranges.
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Carol N. wrote: “Why shouldn’t fat people be shown on television as love interests? …why are we so opposed to showing the same on television?”
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Television and movies are about that bottom line and profit – point, blank – not humanitarian work, charity or counseling. And, unless marketing studies reveal stories featuring obese love interests as something large numbers are interested in seeing, including indicating it’s potential to be wildly profitable, I don’t see it happening or becoming the norm.
The cold hard truth is it’s not what most want to see and, when I say “most,” I’m not just speaking of those who are of a normal and/or healthy size. That is because there are extremely overweight and obese males/females who are not even attracted to (and do not date) other extremely overweight and obese females/males. Many of us have heard big females proclaim how they prefer dudes who are muscular/have nice bodies as well as known big dudes that only chase and try to holla’ at curvy/healthy-sized chicks.
Also, I remember an article a couple of years ago which included a discussion about the mannequins and models used by outlets that cater to overweight and obese women. It addressed some people’s complaints that the mannequins and models used were not “fat” or “big” enough and the response referred to studies that indicated bigger mannequins and extremely obese models were not appealing, marketable and “didn’t sell” — even to that targeted audience. I remember finding it interesting that a lot of fat people themselves didn’t want to see huge mannequins and models.
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Carol N. wrote: “As for privilege, what is your solution then? What is the way to make this fat vs thin war stop?”
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I’d have to buy into the concept of this “privilege” (which I don’t) to offer any “solutions,” but I don’t know that there is a “fat vs. thin” war. At the end of the day, most solutions are the same with a lot of things: check yourself and treat people how you wish to be treated and don’t allow strangers space in your head for free. It is crass and mean to say insulting things to someone’s face in order to hurt them and while there are decent individuals that don’t behave in this manner, there are those who aren’t/do and that’s the way of the world.
You (general) can’t control the mass media or television nor force the movie industry to feature obese individuals as “love interests” and totally disavow what it finds beautiful. The one thing anyone can control is themselves and the only options are: #1) accept the fact that society has it’s idea of the type of body it finds beautiful, or #2) decide to lose weight and fit within it. That said, if the obese are as happy, healthy, confident, booed-up and well-adjusted as claimed, why the desire/need for the media to validate them?
oh wow! so first i was called transophobic…. now i’m being called a TROLL just cause i dont agree with certain people on here? WOW
first off with the whole gender thing i’m over it already… i dont care anymore what you people are saying doesnt make sense and is definitely what akai was saying.. just people trying to make stuff up to accomodate their lifestyle.
hell i told my parents,best friends, and boyfriend about this whole gender/sex/transgender debate and they feel like it makes no sense either.so i’m not the only one.
dont go throwing around terms just cause people dont agree with you. i’m being called stupid,ignorant,a troll, and transphobic (wtf?) just cause i dont agree with their theory. shame on you supposed “intellectual” ladies!
You’re no transphobe – any more than someone who thinks African Americans aren’t really human is racist. They may not know any better, if they’ve been taught that and have never met anyone who wasn’t white. Not their fault, either.
The Sound byte about Transsexuals: Female Brain, otherwise Male Body at birth.
The longer version: 1 in 60 people have some sort of Intersex condition. Often not obvious, they may not even know themselves. “Intersex” means “neither wholly stereotypically male, or stereotypically female, anatomically speaking”.
For example, a mother who’s given birth to three children may not know she has the 46XY chromosomes usually only found in men. And one in five hundred men have 47XXY chromosomes rather than the usual 46XY.
I’ll just quote the abstract of one scientific paper on the subject – it says it all, really:
“The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.”
Here’s another paper on the subject : “Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus” Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041
It’s not a psychiatric, spiritual, ideological, or political issue. It’s one of anatomy.
The cure for the distress this causes is to align bodily anatomy with brain anatomy, as much as possible. The differences are on the cellular level, within the cells, so changing the brain isn’t practical (as well as being ethically dubious).