When a BBC News reporter from the UK contacted me last summer about being the core subject of a radio documentary focusing on single Black women, my immediate reaction was skepticism. American media had been particularly careless with the topic (read: Nightline, Washington Post); and I didn’t want to be a contributing source perpetuating the spinster Black woman meme. After several conversations with the reporter who convinced me she would not use my story to paint a broad picture of all Black women, I agreed.

I flew out to New York City on the Fourth of July weekend for the documentary. The reporter set up a series of blind dates for me that I’d go on with different types of men. She also interviewed me in various locations such as Grand Central Station or on subway platforms about the state of single Black women, as well as my overall feelings about each guy. After spending three days with the BBC reporter, I was confident she had done significant research, interviewed several sources and understood enough of where all of her interviewees were coming from to convey a balanced story in her documentary. Unfortunately, I was wrong.

After waiting a few months, both an article and the documentary went live on BBC’s website. As I listened to the documentary I shook my head in shame at her angle, and wondered if I had presented anything that led her to believe her final assessment: “Blacks tend to believe stereotypes about one another.” She used this reasoning as the basis of why 42 percent of Black women have never been married. I completely disagreed with her notion about us internalizing stereotypes. I even loathed her as an Indian British woman making such a claim.

A few weeks ago Clutch ran “Help! I Don’t Have Any Black Female Friends” by Niesha Miller, which I avoided reading like the plague. However, I eventually read the piece after several writer friends insisted I read and pay close attention to the comments.

Although the author’s experience of lacking Black female friends was unlike my own, I know quirky Black girls and women who grew up around all white people, hence the reason they claim to have no Black friends. I respected the author for being honest in her evaluation of why she didn’t have any Black female friends. And I commended her for not using the article as an avenue to dish a laundry list of reasons why Black women are unfriendable (yeah, I made that word up). But the commenters had no qualms revealing their similar stories, and basically throwing certain types of Black women under the bus. It was then it hit me that the BBC reporter may have been on to something. Through the comments it was plainly obvious that some Blacks are notorious for internalizing stereotypes about one another.

Many of the comments caused me to cringe as the term “ghetto” was tossed around loosely to mean bad, uncouth or unintelligent. Once one person accused Black women of being nasty toward one another, the horror stories of rude Black women and the ones who don’t bother speaking to the other Black women in their department kept coming. There was some obvious pain in the tone of some of the comments. Women recounted their childhood stories of Black girls being the ones who bullied them. And admittedly a few of those same women have allowed those experiences to shape their interactions with Black women today.

When one woman attempted to address the way the comments displayed Black women internalizing stereotypes, no one seemed to want to participate in that conversation. What she considered as internalizing stereotypes was brushed off as truth telling. The fact is, as was argued, there are “ghetto,” rude, nasty Black women according to some of the commenters.

I eventually closed out my Firefox tab and thought about how this internalizing of stereotypes may be contributing to the divisiveness in our community. When I thought about the author having no Black friends, I attributed this to class and socioeconomic background. In reading the comments it turned out to be a revelation on the ugly things we think about one another as Black women.

The historical divide and conquer methods used to colonize Blacks globally are still at play in the 21st century. House nigger vs. field nigger, light skin vs. dark skin, male vs. female, good hair vs. bad hair, were constructs created by white racists, but are being perpetuated by us.

As women we are already fighting patriarchy, misogyny and sexism. Do Black women really need to fight another battle with each other?

In working hard to make sure we are not a stereotype, too many have adopted a mentality of proving to the rest of the world, ‘I’m not like the bad ones, I’m one of the good ones.’ This mentality has caused us to turn our noses up at our own people.

I challenge Black women to think about the negative ideas we hold about other Black women. Do we automatically assume a woman from the “ghetto” is stupid and unsophisticated? When you meet other Black women, are you holding on to a notion she will be catty or rude? And are you judging people individually or based on their class or socio-economic background?

It is much harder to combat racism and sexism when we’re internalizing the very stereotypes we’re trying to dismantle. Women have enough external battles to be fought. We don’t need internal ones that reinforce the fallacy that we are our own worst enemies. ­

  • ALIG83

    Yes, a lot of people do assume a woman, who has grown up in a ghetto is stupid and unsophisticated.

    I don’t exactly meet other Black women unless it is through work, whether it be my coworkers or customers. When I was a bank teller most of our customers were Black. Sometimes my coworkers and I would look at a customer and guess who was going to be rude. Most of the time we were right.

    I judge people based on them as an individual and on their socioeconomic status. For me, I am usually right about people.

  • sunshyne84

    Amen.

  • WoW

    The whole world is a ghetto. Maybe black women have the ghetto act down to a science but really now…….selling cheap meat to school cafeterias is ghetto, selling $200 jeans with poor stitching is ghetto, news people giving a shout-out to their facebook page during the 5 o’clock news is ghetto, electing presidents who know nothing about the world is ghetto, arabs swearing up and down that Allah is the greatest while starving their people is ghetto, appearing on tv and crying, “woe is me,” is ghetto.

    It is all ghetto and it will continue to get worse everyday.

  • what-what

    I have found that the black community especially, have such a narrow box for classing other blacks compared to the way they class other races and with black women it becomes even narrower.

  • C

    After reading all the vitriolic comments on that piece (“Help! I Don’t Have Any Black Female Friends”) and examining my own views about other black women, I was one of several who eventually commented about how we had internalized racism (and you are correct in that few others wanted to participate in that conversation, but were only too happy to add their voices to the chorus against us). What is ironic is that those black women who stereotype other black women are also viewed in the very same stereotypical way – i.e. no matter how “different” you may think you are from “those” black women, others are still making the same harsh, racist judgments about you.

  • Domino

    Why are you attacking Arabs? Look at Christians. They swear up and down their so holier than thou and then they use the Bible to start wars. Ghetto.

  • Kim

    ” no matter how “different” you may think you are from “those” black women, others are still making the same harsh, racist judgments about you.”

    And there you have it. LOL! Some folks will never learn. Some of US are so sick and sad inside until we become “death to the spirit and to the soul.”

  • Vanessa

    I wonder how much of this are issues of political correctness? I would venture to say that most of the people who comment on this site are reasonably intelligent people. We know that just because you come from the suburbs doesn’t mean that you have class and just because you come from an urban environment doesn’t mean you are classless. There is a difference between “ghetto” the noun used to describe a location and “ghetto” the adjective used to describe certain mannerisms.

    I would venture to say that the use of the adjective “ghetto” isn’t internalizing stereotypes but rather using a distinct word that has had different means throughout time to describe a certain way of thinking, acting, and carrying oneself. You can be “ghetto” and be black, white, purple, or green. Like it or not when you describe someone as ghetto, you can draw a picture from that single word rather than having to go through an entire list of actions and descriptions just like one would say “lemon” instead of “a citrus fruit that comes from a tree that is bumpy in texture, refreshing in smell, oval in shape, yellow in color, and sour in taste”.

  • http://www.citizette.com Citizette.com

    Interesting topic though am I the only one who feels like it’s a little incomplete? I would like to know more about how the reporter drew that conclusion from your dates since you focused so much on the article entitled “Help! I have no Black female friends!’.

  • veronica

    I must say everything is down to individual circumstance. Some people choose to use the word ‘ghetto’ whereas another may use another word. It is how individual people perceive or understand things not necessarily ‘black’ or whatever…If your grounded and confident you would not be bothered whether a black woman was trying to bully you, just the fact that someone actually was. We all have a tendency to narrow things down to colour at times. I am black and I have met/known nice, inspiring, caring and beautiful black women as well as not very favourable ones but as with all types of people I focus on the positive and the positive women definitely out do the negative ones. We are fabulous and we should own it!!!

  • Lex

    @Domino Generalizing Christians doesn’t make Wow’s argument any better than generalizing Arabs. Just a thought.

  • Jennifer

    You cannot both judge “people based on them as an individual and on their socioeconomic status.” That statement is contradictory.

  • Jennifer

    Great article. If the current comments are any indication, I dread reading the comments that will follow this thoughtful article. It seems people are married to their positions and are unwilling to examine their prejudices. If we struggle to see ourselves as just as valuable as any other person of a different race, how can we expect anyone else to?

    Have you ever noticed how white people become emboldened when a black person says something negative about another black person? They argue their racist points more firmly, go off on tangents the black person never did, and keep referencing the black person’s comments. I am sure most white people that reference Bill Cosby’s comments don’t even know what he actual said.

    We need to do better. We owe it to the generation coming after us.

  • Theodore Bushwick

    Ok. Let’s cut the bull.

    @Vanessa, there are no green or purple people, so let’s discuss reality. The term “ghetto” is thrown around VERY loosely, and has come to embody, as discussed in these comments, a particular connotation of behavior. We should also be clear – the term in popular culture is undeniably linked to blackness. When used by other races, particularly whites, saying someone is acting “ghetto” is equivalent to calling them nigger.

    How do I arrive at that conclusion? List the definitions and conjured images of both words, and what do you get? Is this REALLY what you want to say about your people? What does that say about how you view them, and yourself? How do you respond to being called “bougie”, Tom, or “house nigger”?

    Like Ms. Viera said, too many of us continue to play plantation politics in our community. Unfortunately, too many of you in these comments are part of the problem. This is why we get nowhere as a people.

  • Theodore Bushwick

    You seem a bit too smug from the conclusions that you’ve drawn from work.

    I used to work a 4 star hotel front desk as an overnight manager. In one quarter (4 months), I evicted 10 people for disorderly conduct. 8 were white. and over the age of 45.

    The people you would judge by their race and socioeconomic status checked in just as frequently, and overall caused less carnage nightly, if any at all.

    Your class prejudice stops you from seeing people as people. How do you feel when you are denied opportunities or treated rudely based upon your race?

  • ALIG83

    @Jennifer, I CAN judge people based on both. I don’t know how to properly articulate it here so that it will make sense to someone else.

    @Theodore, I am not being smug. Trust me. The customers we had would act out many stereotypes about Black people.

    I think you are making a lot of assumptions about who I am based on the few sentences I have written here. Your line about me not seeing people as people because of class prejudice is way off the mark. It’s not even close to being accurate. Quite frankly, I don’t know if I have ever been denied opportunities because of my race. I don’t quite put myself out there like that where that would be likely to happen, but not to say that it hasn’t. Heck, people treat me rudely or like a child simply because I look young. I haven’t exactly had people treat me rudely directly because of my race, but I have experienced microaggression from other people.

  • Merci

    @ Lex – Good Point.

  • nina

    I agree with Theodore 100%. Everything he said is right on the money.

  • Domino

    Could it be that internalizing stereotypes goes both ways. Not only do you have people generalizing black people and women as “ghetto” but then you also have black people who do not accept any other behavior as black without attacking it as “acting white” or “bougie”.

  • Theodore Bushwick

    Ms. Viera alluded to this when discussing the Willie Lynch divisions placed between us as a divide and conquer strategy. You have either the act of social assimilation and tokenism as one idealized form of blackness, and the resistance of that as another, and many tropes and stereotypes that fall in-between (light vs dark, good hair vs bad hair, as the author listed).

    I would equate calling someone “ghetto” and saying that someone “acts white” as problematic issues that recur I’m our community. The issue isn’t identifying it. What do we do to eliminate this cycle of plantation learned behaviors?

  • http://www.ramou.tumblr.com Ramou

    I agree, Jennifer, re: some of the comments. A few of them are simply affirming one of the points in the article about the internalized racism that Black women throw on one another. It’s important to remember that we don’t exist in a vacuum and the things that we think about each other – which have roots in racism and stereotypes – are not just personal, but exist on a much larger scale and can serve as justification for the dominant group – White people – to continue to believe these things about us.

  • Angela Mo

    I was a bit hesitant and felt myself cringe as I began reading, only to breath a collective sigh of relief as I made myself read further. Thank goodness I did. I routinely post on my FB ILLHAVEUATHELLO how out of touch with true blackness many of us our. Though I am a child of activists, intelligent, EMPLOYED black parents who raised 9 kids there was no shortage of turmoil. On the other hand, my dad the son of a Madame, yes as in head of call girls and my mom daughter of a preacher, not just any preacher prominent in the city, we grew up with a fair skinned dad and brown skin mom. So we knew good hair was that you could drop a brick on and not bust your head, black is beautiful, black and proud, black history, Umoja, Nia, etc. My parents were more likely to cuss us out then refer to us a derogatory black reference for if we misbehaved we were an affront to all that is black and had better be black meaning GREAT! Period or suffer the consequences! At 50 in a few days, I routinely thank my parents for letting me know up front, just becuz the outside world may let me off a bit easier, dont let it go to my head jus becuz I am light like my dad. Instead I had better manipulate them to hold the door open for more of us they and many of our own fail to see are TRULY WORTHY!

  • omg

    i don’t believe all black women are “ghetto,” but i do believe that too many black (american) people (men and women) are attached to the idea of being lowerclass. if not the idea of being lowerclass, then certainly the culture.

    that’s why you can find a middle class educated woman still living in the hood. that’s one reason why black educated women will still eat at mcdonald’s and red lobster or whatever and be fat.

    i just believe that blacks have been relegated to being poor and uneducated for so long, that we come to believe being black is to not breakaway from lowerclass acoutrements.

    i’m a bit food-obsessed and the other day i was at this crepe shop/restaurant. the nutella and banana crepe was $5. i was thinking, it would be cool if i could open something like this in the more middle class area of the black los angeles. but then i was like, they probably wouldn’t like it or get it. they’d rather go eat the barbecue, red lobster (i hate that place), fried chicken, friday’s, applebee’s, or at some other chain.

    the way i think is probably the way other folks who could open businesses think – why bother? they won’t appreciate it.

    it’s too bad because other communities – asians, whites, latinos – have businesses that go beyond what would appear to be the obvious.

    this seems slightly off topic but it really isn’t. lol.

  • Vanessa

    I am not responsible for the way the rest of the world define words. The n-word was and still is, no matter the spelling, a derogatory word used to degrade people born into the black race. Ghetto refers to certain characteristics and mannerism of an individual person NOT an entire race, nationality, or ethnicity. Yes in general the people most likely to be call ghetto are black people that act in that manner but that doesn’t mean it isn’t used to describe some Asian, Hispanics, whites etc.

    You could be the richest person on Earth, have your business and family together, well spoken, cultured, and a valued member of your community and to some people you will still be a nigger just because your skin is black but I bet those people don’t refer to you as ghetto. That is the difference.

  • sdollar357

    Now im a black man who loves his ghetto sisters as well my boogie sisters. but ghetto is ghetto. im from the hood and still here. And the stereotypes are somewhat true. for men and women. some of us are ignorant, loud, and dont care. while others are trying to get out. if you aint ghetto then why do you feel out of place around corporate america ( or white people). Because we are ghetto. and never been taught how to act in those situations, cause we dont live that way. Who said that the hood way was the black way should be shot cause that alone has killed the black community. being ghetto is not cool its stupid.. and im trying to stop being stupid.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Elle

    I don’t really know how I feel about this. I know my inital reaction after I read “Help, I don’t have any black friends!” and today’s essay brings out feelings of anger and dissappoinment in myself and those black women that I have encountered.

    This stems all the back to elementary school ( I’m taking it allll the way back, I know, but there is a point)

    Even there, an envoirnment that was supposed to be inncocent, where you learn to socialize and make friends, my experience was a negative one.

    I didn’t have any black friends and the girls that used to tease me, I considered “ghetto” even at that tender age. They probably thought I was this light skinned, who-does-she-think-she-is-type.

    Everything about those girls rubbed me the wrong way, and there was some color issues, I’m not going to lie, I didn’t have a problem with the little white, asian, hispanic, even indian. However, there was always the darker skinned black girl, who usually ran the whole damn school yard and the cliques who picked on me.

    I think from then on, I seperated myself from being “that type”, ghetto. I would be better than that, I’m not like that and other senseless beliefs.

    Fast forward into adulthood, I’ve learned that Black women come from a variety of backgrounds and life presepectives. Who one deems “Ghetto” is one’s own interpertation. I do feel though there are some Black women who are loud, obnoxious, rude, rude to others, rude to other black women. And act like the world owes them something and they take their abusive nature out on other women.

    They’re probably just a mean person. But it really hurts when black women treat each in this way and specifically coming from black women who either don’t see their behavior as a problem its almost like to thrive being that way and see no point in changing, carrying themselves in a more sophisticated manner, talking to others with respect and receiving that respect.

    These are all traits that help you out in life.

    I also remember running into that “ghetto” girl from elementary school that I could not stand on the bus one day, she’s still the same.

  • DKCA

    I don’t know if I complete agree with you, but I see your point. I come from a predominately “urban” environment (I hate that word, because it means black, like other people don’t live in cities), where black people seem to relish in being perceived as poor, tough, and uneducated, even if they are not. But that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t give people in these communities credit for being able to see something different, even if you have to educate them a little.

    I’m from Oakland, CA and proud of it. It has a reputation, (Google it), but I can’t see myself living anywhere else unless I was overseas. I love crepes and would love for a crepe shop, or a coffee shop, or a book store, or a bank, or a fill in the blank any other business that would make my neighborhood feel like a neighborhood. But too many people, blacks and whites included, feel like black people don’t have the money or sophistication to appreciate a better standard of living. The only people that don’t seem to mind opening business in black communities are Asians and Arabs, and I’m not mad at them for it.

    Business sense and a willingness to connect with the place you are at may cause you to be the crepe queen, but too many blacks give up on their own. And that’s a shame.

  • Jennifer

    “no matter how “different” you may think you are from “those” black women, others are still making the same harsh, racist judgments about you.”

    That is the kicker.

  • DKCA

    Interesting. I come from an environment where you can find all different sorts of people, living up to every stereotype you can imagine. The “ghettoest” person I knew in elementary school was this little blue eyed, blond haired white girl. Also ghetto wasn’t necessarily a bad thing, at least when I was younger. It was making due with what you had, making the best out of tough circumstances. Didn’t have a dust pan, use a record cover. Didn’t have bubble bath, use some dish washing liquid. The stories can go on and on but it was really about surviving.

    As far as black women, I try not to judge. My sensibilities are muted and understated so some of the fashions, taste, and other cultural things commonly found in black neighborhoods aren’t my style. But I have also seen folks (read white) pay $1000 for a tacky skirt because it has a certain label, or drunk frat boys (read white) act a complete ass, or rich older white women get real ignorant in a restaurant because their tuna tartar is touching the toast point. Meaning race and community and class group has a group of fools. Including black people. We just have to stop assuming that our group of fools is the majority.

  • Woman of God

    You do have a point concerning the “I’m not like them” mentality. We as Black Amricans go all out our way to try to prove to white people that we’re okay when what we should be doing is trying our best to please Jesus!

  • Rastaman

    The flaw in approaching life as a constant fight against some enemy real or imagined is that you end up spending all your resources at war and not much actually enjoying life. There seems to be a lot of angry people in this country and every one of them feel righteous about their rage. To paraphrase Pogo: “We have met the enemy and he is us,”
    That what was evident from many of the comments in “Help! I Don’t Have Any Black Female Friends”. In reading them I saw something that was ugly and frightening and just plain scary that so many black women envision other black women in such a poisonous way. And seem to attribute the behaviors they found offensive to being black rather than any other factor. It would seem the bigots have triumphed since they have now gotten some folks to hate themselves for being black and female more than anyone else could hate them.

  • Theodore Bushwick

    @Vanessa And a middle class, college educated, articulate man or woman can be (and have been) called ghetto simply based in where they grew up, drive listening to a specific kind of music, or walked into a place of business or retail chain wearing something other than a suit.

    Your staunch defense of ghetto as an adjective is highly problematic, and indicative of the very divisions highlighted by this article. And while you are not responsible for how the rest of the world defines words, you are accountable for their use, and their contextual connotations.

    Arguing in defense of a right to use “ghetto” as a negative adjective is as deplorable as arguing that the trope of “welfare queen” is valid.

  • MissRae

    As I recall I thought ghetto is referred to as a place, not a person or character, smh

  • http://twitter.com/aonyaKB Aonya Monique

    Also, it doesn’t help our psyche or efforts to dismantle the myths when there’s constant images of black women acting unrefined, uncouth and uneducated for the sake of money, publicity and reality tv i.e, basketball wives, love and hip hop, rhoa, etc.

  • Domino

    @ Lex

    You’re right. I just can’t stand how we talk about stereotypes and then someone on here randomly throws Arabs under the bus. As if arabs did anything to black people.

  • Alexandra

    It’s true the word ghetto is misused a lot. I always hear it used as a descriptive of a persons character; specifically a Black persons character.

    I do think a lot of people (not just Black), have bought into stereotypes about their demographic. It sucks on their part, cause like C and Kim said, no matter how different you think you are from ‘them’, your skin color doesn’t exclude you from the broad stereotypes either.

    The same way the author of that article went out of her way to avoid sitting next to a Black women (big WTF!), simply for no reason other than them being Black, I’m sure someone has done it to her, or will.

    Great article Bene :)

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    So question – coming from a black man…

    So is this article basically saying that attitudinal black women do not exist? or that they are a small portion of the black female population?

    Are people’s negative experiences with black women made up?

    I have to sigh when black women want to challenge their own negative stereotypes, but yet embrace every negative stereotype about black men without question!

    There are black women who believe things like 1 in 3 black men are in jail.

    However u look at the real number there are only 2.3 million people in prison both male, female, and of all racial groups.

    There are 16 million black men roughly – 1/3 of 16 million is WAY over 2.3 million people.

    However there are those black people who throw 1 in 3 black men in jail like its FACT!

    As though they actually took the time to look it up.

    Also, my biggest problem with this article and women who try to reason thru the issue is this.

    There are black women who exhibit these negative stereotypes – they don’t just internalize it and view other black women thru that lens – it manifest itself as the “IN” representation of black women where black women act it out – much as the Bad boy issue with black men.

    Difference with those to are that many black women find BAD BOY sexy – and men act it out and are rewarded for it.

    Black avoid the attitudinal black woman at all cost – so it doesn’t work towards black women’s benefit as the male version work for men.

    Black women ignore and deny the stereotype and the women who are the loudest and show this stereotype to the world instead of attack its origins and addressing that.

    Black women need to separate themselves from these women – and promote who they are because these women are surely soiling their reputation as black women – however instead of correcting these women – these women are defended by other black women – who in the process get labeled with the same stereotype.

    You are the company that you keep. Black women can no longer condone or ignore the behavior of these women and walk out untouched.

    Hood vs Regular black men do not get along.

    Ghetto black women and quality black women – like to be in bed with each other – up until the moment it comes times to be chosen by a man.

    Then when the man lumps them all together cause they are in bed with each other – BLACK WOMEN who are “quality” GET MAD.

    It’s just that simple.

  • Sally

    Well somebody must like Black women. We’re the majority of black in colleges (black fem vs. black male). We’re the majority of black in jobs (black fems have more jobs than black males). We’re probably the majority of business owners and have more wealth (black fems vs. black males). We shouldn’t have to worry about what other people think.

  • Nina

    @Theodore

    Yes! Again lol Marry me!

  • BrookeC

    Definitely something to think about; very well written. kudos!

  • Tomi

    What are you babbling about now -___-?

  • Jane

    “Hood vs. ‘Regular’” – that sentiment is hilarious to me. I embrace people who are authentically themselves. Some of the most loyal, wisest go-getters come from and are ‘hood’, which in my book is defined as a person unaffected by society standards.

    The miseducated negro will certainly bring this race to a screeching halt.

  • Khalil_mlk

    Re: She’s Ghetto’: Stereotypes Black Women Internalize

    I find the “self image” of self resolves any stereotype issues. As long as the Black woman attempts to wear the “crown” Of the White woman her view to herself and any other members of the human family will be puzzling.

  • http://www.pyramidoftruth.com Kemwer

    Do Black females from the ghetto think that highly mis-educated black females not from the ghetto are imitation white women?

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    Comment from Jane:

    ““Hood vs. ‘Regular’” – that sentiment is hilarious to me. I embrace people who are authentically themselves. Some of the most loyal, wisest go-getters come from and are ‘hood’, which in my book is defined as a person unaffected by society standards.

    The miseducated negro will certainly bring this race to a screeching halt.”

    Then comment from Kemwer:

    “Do Black females from the ghetto think that highly mis-educated black females not from the ghetto are imitation white women?”

    @ Kemwer – Precisely

    I find it amazing at how many black women praise “HOOD” black men which includes all the negatives that come with it – only to turn around at some later more mature point in their life – complaining about how its the “HOOD” black men and their mentalities that is contributing to the downfall of the black community and family.

    Black men are in Jail
    Black men sell Drugs
    Black men are disrespecting black women in hip-hop
    Black men get black women pregnant and avoid their responsibilities.

    Oh yes all that will come in due time – but right now – it’s PRAISE HOOD GUYS for their GO-GETTER mentality as she put it.

    Then once all that is completed comes the chastising the educated black men that they were NEVER checking for for being with other races of women.

    THEN COMES the lies – of White Trophyness and the like…

    I’m sorry but black women seriously have a warped sense of reality – or excuse me – allow me to clarify – MOST! black women – especially the ones on this site.

    “which in my book is defined as a person unaffected by society standards”

    This last quoted statement further supports my points about black women wanting black men to live and operate in the NINJA* box ignoring who is the dominant group with the power only to compare black men to white men at a later date about what black men are not doing – when they encourage black men to operate and function in the NINJA BOX!

    Think about that!

    What’s in this Ninja Box – operating outside the white system with ambiguous non-tangible terms such as keeping it real or street.

    Whats in the WHITE BOX? Financial stability, men taking care of their children, patriarchy, male leadership, men going above and beyond just simply “meow”, generational wealth.

    I’m sorry the things these women say on this page only further support the ignorance and blind stupidity of many black women.

    Just to let u know – UR DEALIN WITH A HEAVY WEIGHT

  • omg

    i have to sigh at lots of black men on this site.

  • whilome

    I needed this today. Thank you, ma’am.

  • Theodore Bushwick

    A heavyweight you are not. You have done little other than prove that you are capable of attacking black women as a monolith, and that you can read an article and essentially respond to none of its core tenets.

    The fact that you end your second comment with a half-assed attempt at examining tropes with no coherent point illustrates that you chose to come to this site to show out. Nothing about your words connote any motivation toward any form progress, literal, figurative, intellectual, or otherwise.

    You, and several other commenters I do not have the endurance to name, are the very reason that articles like this have to be written in 2011.

    Seriously, black people, wake the fuck up. While we sit on the internet, in beauty shops, in the workplace, at dinner, or wherever else bickering about what constitutes blackness and play out Willie Lynch divide and conquer scripts, the prisons are swelling. Education is being cut in our schools. The police act as occupying armies in black and brown neighborhoods. We can put all this energy into discussing what is “ghetto”, “bougie”, who is an “Uncle Tom”, bad hair vs. good hair, light vs. dark… while our liberties are peeled back like onion skins as our community continues to fracture.

    I am grateful that Clutch aspires to create a community where black women can voice issues that have meaning to them, and where brothers can visit to engage in constructive dialogue. However, when half of the comments illustrate the very things that divide us, I cringe at what we as parents will end up teaching our children.

  • COCOEL

    I think the term or word “ghetto” needs to be defined. There is no specific race, creed, or color who will escape this definition. What bothers me is when black people use the term to define a person they feel is beneath their personal level of economic, educational, and physical (yes) standards. There are people in all races that do this. It’s just black people have the uncanny ability to step on an others neck to place themselves two steps ahead. The “it’s not me but them” mentality allows the person to build a wall between what whites view as a low level subculture. It is no different than a white elitist calling another less wealthy white a “red neck.” It’s the “I’m better than her/him.” I’ve been a Social Worker, I have seen some places. I have always started where that person mentally was. I believe in everyone and that a person may better themselves. I make no excuses for those whose behavior is rude or violent. I have no respect for the “street hustle” it just leads to a long history with the penal system. What I would like to see is more mentoring and time spent solving these divisive issues in our community.

  • ash

    dude where are you getting this from? everything you say is so real! like what books can i read or do you have a website???

    because very few people or at all are writing from this unbias prospective.. your so great!

  • thankyou

    I just think others (and that is angry black men included) need to keep black women out of your mouth, as the old saying goes. You’re wasting your time. The majority of us are not going to stop *winning* just because you all keep throwing up these negative articles analyzing every tidbit of our existences to try to make us feel as if there’s a huge problem.

    All of my best girlfriends are BLACK, BEAUTIFUL and well put together. employed and hard working. We are perfectly fine in our own little clique and do not care what the rest of YOU (whoever YOU may be) think.

    You can write a million of these articles but it won’t change the fact that black women are highly employed/employable, educated, do well in marriages (check the stats) and stay young and beautiful even into their 50s and 60s. We’re winning! lol

    They don’t write lengthy documentaries and articles on the BBC analyzing the rest of your issues but:

    - white girls, please focus more on why you are so busy trying to look like someone else (butt implants, tanning, facelifts and ridiculous fake boob jobs)

    - asian/indian women (like the one who wrote this article), please focus more on why you worship whites to the point where you try to lighten your skin and change your eyes to look like them

    - angry black men please focus more on why you have a 50 percent unemployment rate in some areas and a skyrocketing divorce rate with all races of women

    - white men, please focus more on why the suicide rates for white men are sky high compared to all other groups. I genuinely think that is a much more pressing and newsworthy topic than the various classes of black women

    me and the rest of us non-stereotypical black women would really appreciate it if you’d focus on your own major issues instead of worrying about what we’re up to, thanks!

  • Rachel

    I’m sorry, but “attitudinal”? When anyone feels the need to resort to made-up words to make a point, I tune them out.

  • Just This Once

    @Theodore: While I understand what you’re are saying, I have to disagree with you here.

    I have friends of every background and they ALL have different definitions of the term ghetto. Just because they didn’t live in the same hood with “us” doesn’t mean they didnt have hardship. Everyone has had to deal with their own form of ghetto (even whites). I agree that the term is over-used but what means something to you may not mean the the same to me and vise-versa. I don’t think Vanessa is arguing over the use of a word. I think she is JUST SPEAKING FROM HER PERSPECTIVE WHICH DOESN’T SEEM TO MATCH YOURS.

  • Brittney J.

    I agree that black women do internalize stereotypes. The whole “ghetto” stereotype is one I see a lot. I know a lot of black females who don’t associate with any females who they “think” are ghetto. I think the real problem is the fact that black women have this messed up sense of reality. We let people who don’t know us, i.e. whites tell us how we should act, behave, live, etc. Its been going on for many years now. Its like the author said, “The historical divide and conquer methods used to colonize Blacks globally are still at play in the 21st century. House nigger vs. field nigger, light skin vs. dark skin, male vs. female, good hair vs. bad hair, were constructs created by white racists, but are being perpetuated by us.” Why is it that we are Still holding on to all of these stupid ideals that were given to us by people that hate us? What black women and men need to do is stop perpetuating that bs and come together instead of letting themselves be brainwashed by their oppressors.

  • Tomi

    Meh there’s more I’d like to say but I’ll only correct one of your points for now.

    “- asian/indian women (like the one who wrote this article), please focus more on why you worship whites to the point where you try to lighten your skin and change your eyes to look like them”

    Um, except the notion of light=better exists way farther back into history than the introduction of Grand Poobah Whitey. Lighter skin meant that you could afford NOT to work in the field, and stay indoors. Lighter skin = wealth. It’s something that has developed over CENTURIES not only because of white influence.

    “You can write a million of these articles but it won’t change the fact that black women are highly employed/employable, educated, do well in marriages (check the stats) and stay young and beautiful even into their 50s and 60s. We’re winning! lol”

    Uh… cept we may be highly employed but look how much a black woman makes to a white, asian, hispanic woman or man’s dollar. Yeah… no, okay that was two points.

    Seriously, the world is not as simplistic as you make it. Which is precisely WHY we need these articles, so people don’t end up close-minded and misinformed and dare I say… dull.

    “All of my best girlfriends are BLACK, BEAUTIFUL and well put together. employed and hard working. We are perfectly fine in our own little clique and do not care what the rest of YOU (whoever YOU may be) think.”

    I don’t even know why you bothered reading this, then o__O?

  • Tomi

    @Theodore Bushwick

    This. So much this.
    THANK YOU.

  • sunshyne84

    nope!

  • brit

    and in public

  • brit

    this article had nothing about men in it.. why the hell do you have to always bring it up??? like i can understand what you saying but god can we not to the black men hating black women thing for ONCE.

  • angel

    Girl you clearly didn’t read the article. Your comment is so off topic a response would be waste of time. Try again hun. This time read slowly & try to comprehend what you’re reading.

  • Marcia

    This comment is in response to “Sargewp”, as an FYI…I don’t believe the purpose of the article has anything to do with your feelings towards black women or your intent to “get back” at those females that may have “wronged” you. I do believe it was intended to point out to black women to maybe question themselves and to possibly make an effort to “right” our “wrongs”. This article seems to be more about reflection and correction. I do hope you take the time to read and understand the articles and possibly consider if you may have some part as do I and am willing to think twice about my actions and where they’re coming from.

    I haven’t read any of the other articles but this is a great topic. I’m so glad someone is willing to openly comment on it. I attempt to but as was referenced no one wants to ever speak on it…too touchy. I love speaking on these topics because it’s the only way to truly understand people sometimes and hold them accountable for there actions instead of pretending these issues do not exist.

  • Really?

    @ Lex – right on

    @ Domino – and so you feel it makes things so much better to throw Christians under the bus? When did two wrongs make a right?

  • Really?

    Agreed.

    When I was younger I did my very best to stay away from African Americans and act “white.” However, when I grew up I realized that no matter how hard I tried most people who see me would probably stereotype me. No point in wasting time and being racist.

    After that I embraced myself and went oh the journey of self-acceptance.

  • Really?

    I have to agree with ash.

    Man, for the most part, you’re always on point.

    May God bless you always.

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    @Theodore Bushwick

    I really shouldn’t even dignify this with a response.

    The point was very clear – and you did not respond with one single rebuttal to the point.

    U deflected – talking about a whole bunch of nonsense that I assume is supposed to pull on teh Afrocentric strings within all of us?

    Black people LOVE RHETORIC – if it sounds good and makes us feel good we’re all over it.

    When we want to complain about white racism – DO WE HIT THEM IN THE POCKETS – NOPE!

    We march!!

    I’m sorry most black people just don’t get it – and black women are the masters of not getting it.

    My point was that Janes comment pretty much elevated and put HOOD GUYS on a pedestal – and I simply pointed out that black women will turn around in due time to throw these men under the bus once they discover that ray ray and pookie ain’t gonna be there for the raising of the child.

    ALL THAT – GO GETTER – HE’S SO SEXY stuff goes right out the window then.

    No but men like me can’t seem to open up black women’s eyes to such hypocrisy and other inconsistencies with their everyday arguments.

    If u didn’t get that basic element out of my comment – There is no point discussing anything with such a trivial mind.

  • m^2

    I’d like to motion Sargewp be banned from commenting on this (entire) site. If a petition is needed, I will gladly start it.

  • http://[email protected] Ross

    @rachel your country behind… attitudinal is not a made up word it’s in the dictionary… that is hilarious i am literally laughing my @ss off…you know what else is funny ( youtube family guy black woman always right) and you will see what caricature pop culture choose to depict a getho black woman… it’s funny yet sad..

  • m^2

    and just to emphasize my disdain for recklessness that commonly goes on in these here comment sections, Carib folks like to teach “the empty barrel makes the most noise”.

    disgusted!

  • Demita C.

    @m^2 I strongly concur. This is a place for us to discuss our issues; not to be attacked w unsolicited “advice”. This parasite comes on any channel or website where we convene & they’ve been banned from each, including YouTube.

    Get lost

  • Rastaman

    @Ash
    My opinions come from experience and historical knowledge. You see we far too often think the issues we face are somehow unique to our existence, a good reading of history would help us all to better understand that many have walked this way before and the challenge is to learn the lessons of their experience not repeat their journey. I spoke and listened to my grandparents when they were alive and I do the same with my parents today. Many of our personal issues would be solved if we were better connected with our elders. Using their lives as road maps to better conduct ours.

  • WoW

    @ All of YOUS

    LMAO…… black people today are soooo sensitive. I feel sorry for you.

    *getting my Cliff Notes for Stereotypes of Black Women*

    The point I was making is that everything is ghetto. To single out black women as the face of ghetto is juvenile. Sure, loud black women get on my nerves but so do white loud black women and even loud Arabs…lol

    Ghetto means lack of manners, crude, uncouth, lax. Without composure.

    Black people spend waaaay to much time analyzing ethnic issues with no real results. What does discussion do for you @ the end of the day? Is it going to make you even more critical or less??? You can replace Arabs with any variable you please. Cause when you read the news you’ll see that the world is full of injustices; which is the real creation of ghettos to begin with.

    Now put that in your generalization pipe and smoke it.

  • http://trynottorant.wordpress.com Afia

    Women from all backgrounds are guilty of this. Women internalize stereotypes about other women. Sad but true.

  • http://twitter.com/LMoniqueMarrie Elle MoniqueMarrie

    Thank you for this. You just made me take a very real look at myself.

  • Leandra

    @sargewp: your form of expression disgusts me and I’m so sorry it comes from a black male’s mind. Your points are baseless and completely subjective.

    @theodore bushwic: I was waiting for someone to touch on all that you said in your second paragraph. Thank you for your SOUND, REAL, and RELEVANT words.

  • http://mindofmalaka.wordpress.com Malaka

    Dear Bene,

    I am an unabashed blog snob. I rarely read the vast majority of what’s on the net because it’s primarily thoughtless, regurgitated drivel. NOT SO here. What a thought provoking article!

    Well done.

    And I concur with your final thought: Black women are (unfortunately) often our own worst enemies. It’s high time we band together, instead of fighting one another.

  • saiden moore

    First I must say that an Indian reporter from BBC became rich in America when he allegedly distorted his interview with Michael Jackson. Secondly, the majority of so called reality “housewives” tv shows are mostly white and attack each other physically and verbally without cause. I think we are dealing with a “bully” mentally among women of all races in the “civilized world”. Sisterhood is a misnome

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    REMOVING COMMENTS – NOW – Not surprised on a black woman’s site.

    Black women can not handle truth. Or anything that does not support their confirmation bias.

    “@sargewp: your form of expression disgusts me and I’m so sorry it comes from a black male’s mind. Your points are baseless and completely subjective.

    @theodore bushwic: I was waiting for someone to touch on all that you said in your second paragraph. Thank you for your SOUND, REAL, and RELEVANT words.”

    LIKE A CHILD – black women refuse to refute points and insist on resorting to ad homs – not surprised in the least.

  • Tomi

    Ad Hominem
    That word… you keep using it.
    And I’m not entirely sure you have a grasp on it’s meaning.

    Regardless, I would love to see you approach someone’s retort to your vitriol, misogyny and general bull-headedness with actual facts or proper citation instead of assuming anyone who disagrees with you is a “simp” or a black woman. How are you going to make anyone “own up” to their “BS and deception” if you can’t form an argument?

    “A heavyweight you are not. You have done little other than prove that you are capable of attacking black women as a monolith, and that you can read an article and essentially respond to none of its core tenets.” Theodore’s rebuttal.

    “My point was that [Jane's] comment pretty much elevated and put HOOD GUYS on a pedestal – and I simply pointed out that black women will turn around in due time to throw these men under the bus once they discover that ray ray and pookie ain’t gonna be there for the raising of the child.” Your point as stated by you. And apparently Jane’s too.

    ““Hood vs. ‘Regular’” – that sentiment is hilarious to me. I embrace people who are authentically themselves. Some of the most loyal, wisest go-getters come from and are ‘hood’, which in my book is defined as a person unaffected by society standards.

    The miseducated negro will certainly bring this race to a screeching halt.” Jane’s point as stated by her.

    Things that she did not talk about, allude to, or elaborate on:

    “My point was that [Jane's] comment pretty much elevated and put HOOD GUYS on a pedestal – and I simply pointed out that black women will turn around in due time to throw these men under the bus once they discover that ray ray and pookie ain’t gonna be there for the raising of the child.”

    It is very clear that you are unable to dissect someone’s point, but very good at making baseless assumptions. What you said up there highlighted no detail, phrasing or punctuation in Jane’s post. You’re either a very good troll or a very bad debater, as the 7th grade kid brother was ALSO able to point out the LACK of correlation YOUR response had to JANE’S.

    You just need and want to say your opinion in various different ways to the same group of people. You can’t prove me wrong because RIGHT up there you have proven me right. And you will again when you respond to this post. Or not. Either way you are stuck in a web of blaming the other party for whatever goes wrong, instead of owning up to it.

    “A heavyweight you are not. You have done little other than prove that you are capable of attacking black women as a monolith, and that you can read an article and essentially respond to none of its core tenets.”

    TL;DR: Child or Coward? You sound like both to me. You also “ad hom” a LOT.

  • Demita C.

    To all my Sisters & Brothers-
    Please IGNORE any purposefully nasty, mean or otherwise ill intended comments period as there is a Troll in our midst. (Troll IMO is someone whose presence only serves to incite anger, hurt and discord on said blog, vlog or online magazines..). None of your efforts to engage in anything remotely civil or constructive will be worth your trouble. Been there, done that. So simply IGNORE & let’s continue above this Troll’s hate, ok? Don’t feed this troubled soul.

    Just a word to the wise! Thanks

  • thankyou

    Hmm seems that ive outed two of the nonblack posters on this site. Doesn’t feel so nice when the focus is thrown back on you does it? Again focus on your own damn issues instead of buzzing around every “why black women don’t” article you can find.

  • bwup

    This is precisely why most black women blogs are strongly moderated. Because the others, and i mean black men too, cannot stand to be away from us for even a moment. Ask a moderator at any truly progressive website for black women how many hateful comments she has to sort through from whites and sorry angry black men. If clutch wants to maintain ita status and target audience it is going to have to recognize that and take action.

    Btw to the folks who dignify the black male hatemongers with a lengthy serious response, you’re not doing anyone a favor by egging on the nonsense. By the way that sarge guy is sarg willie peete a reject from youtube who can no longer post his hateful vids

  • Lady Laydeee

    As a professional married black british woman with a baby on the way I heard this programme on the world service – it made me cringe as i am sure there are plenty of british black fenale journalists who could have done it better plus its a non topic – if you ask me I and UK sisters were embarassed for you!

  • Tomi

    I don’t know why this comment keeps moving like a bad game of Where’s Waldo….

  • Tomi

    “Hmm seems that ive outed two of the nonblack posters on this site. ”

    Totes Nigerian-American, but thanks for playing.

  • Tomi

    I don’t know what’s worse. The fact that you assumed that because I disagreed with you I must be “nonblack” or the fact that you think said “nonblacks” don’t have a right to comment on “our” problems. Your FIRST post was to comment/allude to the maladies in other peoples’ cultures and world views. Granted you were wrong. Completely wrong in some aspects, but no one is telling you to mind your own.

    To clarify my above statement, I’m a FIRST generation Nigerian-American. Does that make me a “nonblack” too?

  • Jane

    ‘Things that she did not talk about, allude to, or elaborate on:

    “My point was that [Jane's] comment pretty much elevated and put HOOD GUYS on a pedestal – and I simply pointed out that black women will turn around in due time to throw these men under the bus once they discover that ray ray and pookie ain’t gonna be there for the raising of the child.”’

    No, not a pedestal. I’m from the hood and love my brothers that is all. I simply love black men. Should I apologize for that? Are there things we can do differently, of course, but not all pookies and ray ray’s aren’t in the home. Most of the men I grew up with are “stay-at-home ‘hood’” fathers. Pick up Blueprint by Amos Wilson or read Akbar Papers in African Psychology by Na’im Akbar. Maybe this will give you another view point besides how the mainstream views us.

  • Jinx Moneypenny

    I didn’t grow up in predominantly Black neighbourhoods so I didn’t have many Black friends. Not once did that make me feel like I was any less Black. Instead it made me even more aware of my Blackness, but not at all uncomfortable with it. Yes, we’re different. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? No. We’re friends and that’s what comes before all else.

    What I’ve noticed is when the discomfort people experience when they see you’re settled within yourself. I don’t care what you think, Black or otherwise.

    So whatever you think, whatever stereotypes you hold of me, you can take them and shove them up your ass. I pay you no mind.

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    I’m sorry – this is why black walk away

    There is no such thing as a health dialogue between black men and black women.

    Ladies pay attention – this is how u handle and adult argument.

    SWP – says the sky is blue because of …..

    Black woman who disagrees – says – No, I disagree, actually the sky is green because ….

    Black as black men we don’t get that.

    Black man says the sky is blue because of ….

    Black women respond – YOU JUST HATE THE COLOR BLUE
    UR CLAIMS ARE BASELESS BECAUSE THERE IS NO SKY THERE IS ONLY OUTSPACE.

    WHAT REALLY CONSTITUTES THE SKY? WHAT CONTENT OF OXYGEN ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

    I mean anything an everything to get around addressing one point.

    Making the claim that someone’s points are baseless but yet not having ONE SINGLE COUNTER ARGUMENT TO ANY OF THE POINTS MADE – OR ACTING THE POINT AND THEN SAYIN THAT THE POINT IS NOT REALLY A POINT – (which doesn’t even remotely make sense) is childish – and for black men come to be expected when DEBATING WITH BLACK WOMEN.

    Black women argue black men call black women B’s and Hoes in music lyrics.

    Black man’s response – well many black women are attracted to those men – there’s no shortage of black women at LIL WAYNE CONCERTS – and I recall many black women doing the SUPERMAN by Soulja Boy!

    I mean that’s a basic response and black women go – OH WELL THAT’S BASELESS?!

    What!?

    I mean – damn they can’t even concede to the point that, yea there are alot of black women out here who are not only attracted to but encourage the negative behavior exhibited by males.

    And you know what the wildest thing is – OVER 70% OF THESE BLACK MEN WERE RAISED SOLELY BY THEIR BLACK MOTHERS – BUT THAT IS NEVER A FACTOR!

    Yes! According the black women the man who was never there since day one has more of an influence on the child than the parent who is there everyday.

    I wonder if black men who raise their daughters by themselves can blame their daughter growing up to be a hoe on the fact that the mother was not there.

    Most of black women’s responses to black men are EMOTIONAL – not LOGICAL!

    and they think that “TELLIN SOMEONE OFF, OR HOW STUPID THEY ARE” is actually winning them the argument or anything else in life.

    SAD!

    Sincerely yours,

    Unadulterated TRUTH!

  • thankyou

    If you identify as a black woman why in the world would you feel the need to:

    a. play cap’n save that girl to non-black women while in the process putting down black women by pointing out how much we make compared to a white or latina woman’s dollar?
    b. dispute my comments telling non-blacks to mind their own business? if you identify as a black woman why would you want others constantly analyzing who you are and what you do?

    And by the way, educated black American women have surpassed white women and latina women in pay years ago, maybe you should check the facts. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7310450/ns/us_news-life/)

    Since you asked me, I do not tell others what they can call themselves, but I do have problem with folks who are only black american when it’s convenient.

  • Tomi

    A less than five comments away, you confirm everything I responded to you on page 2 completely.

    Well done! You are an idiot! Your medal will come in the mail shortly.

  • Tomi

    “a. play cap’n save that girl to non-black women while in the process putting down black women by pointing out how much we make compared to a white or latina woman’s dollar?”

    What. I’m having trouble understanding you, but it seems like you’re saying because I identify as black…I can’t criticize the black race or females because I’m a member of both? Is any criticism to black women a put down even when it’s true? This is me asking you honest questions because that bit confused me. You said an article like this is useless because it didn’t apply to you. I was simply stating why it doesn’t matter if it applies to you, there is still a majority of black women who it DOES. We shouldn’t stop talking about stuff when it gets too touchy or out of your spectrum. This website caters to all kindsa blacks, nonblacks of both genders.

    “b. dispute my comments telling non-blacks to mind their own business? if you identify as a black woman why would you want others constantly analyzing who you are and what you do?”

    Um… well first of all freedom of speech? I believe if you want equality in race and gender, you’re gonna have to put up with a lot of scrutiny and bias. Some seem to have no trouble telling white people and the white media what they’re doing wrong, but god help us if a white person told a black person or BET black media what’s going on. Don’t you think that’s a problem? What automatically makes them wrong and us right?

    “Since you asked me, I do not tell others what they can call themselves, but I do have problem with folks who are only black american when it’s convenient.”

    Lolwat, “black-american when it’s convenient”, care to explain this one too? There’s no way my dark skinned, foreign lastname Jersey girl ass could ever be called anything but black. Now if you’re implying my customs and ideologies are different, well they certainly are, but that doesn’t stop me from ever being black and American at the same time. I’ll even sub in the word Nigerian for black because I do have a heritage I identify with.

    “And by the way, educated black American women have surpassed white women and latina women in pay years ago, maybe you should check the facts. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7310450/ns/us_news-life/)”

    “The bureau did not say why the differences exist. Economists and sociologists suggest possible factors: the tendency of minority women, especially blacks, to more often hold more than one job or work more than 40 hours a week, and the tendency of black professional women who take time off to have a child to return to the work force sooner than others…”

    Done. Did you read that part? That’s the salary based from “a tendency” of working MORE THAN ONE JOB or working MORE than the white woman. Not because they make the same amount per hour and per week. If a black woman needs to work significantly more than a white woman to make a paltry amount better than her. How is that surpassing? Until they can tell me with great confidence that it is because black women are better educated… well then it’s no dice.

    You got me on the Latina statistic though, good job, and I apologize for my false assumption. Although, that was a 2005 standing, and the one I read last week from 2009 said differently.
    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html
    http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/01/20/wage-inequality-among-race-and-gender-persist/
    these are from different years and they all say we only make up to 82<% of our white female counterpart. And the percentage is less when we talk about Asian women.

    Sooo….

  • Tomi

    “When are black women going to take responsibility for their image independent of Black Men…?”

    Well… I view black men as just men and treat them how I treat any other man. Cordially. Like they should treat me. Cordially.

    “When are black women are going to take responsibility PERIOD…”

    I don’t see why I have to take responsibility for a whole race and gender at the same time. The leftist in me disagrees with the black woman you are trying to illustrate on a CHEMICAL level lol. A lot of other woman would say the same thing… which would make most of the vitriol against “those types of black women” on this thread, kinda pointless. None of us really fit that type if you checked our comments.

    “Now if you don’t care about the BM you want who aren’t picking you for romantic reasons and going off with other races of women… carry on…”

    Carrying on because I have dated almost every race and don’t limit myself based on color.

    Carrying on… Carrying on… Carrying on…

    “The only questionable complaint that BM have with BW is the overweight issues, which BM need to stop messing with fat black women if that is not their preference… And men need to be more consistent in terms of Black female sexuality…”

    Thank you!

    “No matter what [TOMI]… Black Men & Men in general have all the leverage in this “Gender War”, and I will remind black men that you don’t have to deal with the BS that BW bring if they don’t want to…”

    Right again! You really don’t have to! I like you, while I disagree with your opinions at least you try to make sense and address people relevantly. Good on you, sir.

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    Tomi

    “I don’t see why I have to take responsibility for a whole race and gender at the same time. ”

    No black men are saying that black women like u have to take responsibility for the whole group.

    What black men are asking is for black women like urself – not to deny the truth and very valid and legitimate complaints that black men have out here of the black women who exhibit the negative behaviors

    Secondly, DO NOT DEFEND THESE WOMEN.

    You can’t say that you don’t want to be accountable or responsible for ALL BLACK WOMEN

    Yet whenever a black man airs his grievances about those black women, who u claim u are nothing like, women like you are THE FIRST ONES TO JUMP UP AND DEFEND THOSE WOMEN EMOTIONALLY AS THOUGH U ARE APART OF THAT GROUP.

    Only to turn around and say – well what they do is not my issue.

    Ur blocking – u are in the way of progress and many of these issues between black men and women getting resolved.

    The days of black women walking around with Halo and Wings spewing unaccountable nonsense like

    “black men are disrespectful to black women in rap songs” but yet are pilled on top of each other in the first Row at the Lil Wayne concert Passing out as Lil Wayne recites “IM THE PU$$Y MONSTER” – THOSE DAYS ARE OVER.

  • Tomi

    “No black men are saying that black women like u have to take responsibility for the whole group.

    What black men are asking is for black women like urself – not to deny the truth and very valid and legitimate complaints that black men have out here of the black women who exhibit the negative behaviors”

    Uh…That is asking me to take responsibility for a group I neither defend nor identify with. I didn’t say their weren’t women who portray these qualities….there are. We know this. NONE OF THEM ARE ME.

    I don’t have a problem with your tirade against these women. I do have a problem with you LUMPING US ALL AS ONE GROUP and bashing black women on this thread for no reason other than the fact that you like to talk.

    “You can’t say that you don’t want to be accountable or responsible for ALL BLACK WOMEN”

    But you just said…. wait what. If I don’t have to be accountable why are you saying I can’t say I’m not accountable o__O?

    “Yet whenever a black man airs his grievances about those black women, who u claim u are nothing like, women like you are THE FIRST ONES TO JUMP UP AND DEFEND THOSE WOMEN EMOTIONALLY AS THOUGH U ARE APART OF THAT GROUP.”

    Ah okay. So tell me when I have defended these women? Most of the time I have been defending myself, and my post above directed at you, was defending Jane. Which you STILL haven’t responded to.

  • CAsweetface

    @ Wow, what you said went over some peoples heads. Some of these, a lot of these actually, finger pointing discussions are getting old and tired. I for one feel you…

  • Demita C.

    Because you continue to participate. Didn’t you read the “IGNORE” msg.? It’s on you…perhaps these Trolls are here b/c they sniffed out a stubborn BW who just won’t listen. So take it.

    Have fun! But would you mind taking the ni**erish fun you’re having with your buddies offline please? Thanks.

  • Demita C.

    Thought this article was about the tragic effects of racial and gender stereotypes against Black Women becoming a reality through persistent social conditioning? Well, I’m satisfied w the direction this discussion was going in prior to, so onto the next…

  • theloneous

    Interesting and provacative, I found this to be good reading.

    As one who has lived in the “hood” my whole 52 years on this earth, I can attest that this “house vs field” argument has been going on far longer than anybody reading this has been alive. Instead of allowing ourselves to be divided over this artificial construct we need to learn to trust ourselves and each other more, and, conversely, trust those who are not “us” less. We’re easily divided because we don’t trust each other and we don’t trust each other because we’ve hurt each other so often and in so many ways and they’ve made it very easy to hurt those closest to us and it appears our acceptance of the willingness to hurt each other is the ultimate internalization of stereotypes. We’re not the only people guilty of self inflicted pain, they are the masters of war and destruction. That they are more than willing to hurt themselves doesn’t mean we should be like them, we have to set ourselves apart from them, I think that’s why some Black people so readily reflect “ghetto” sterotypes, in many ways its actually a rejection of white people. Ms. Viera should have turned down BBC’s request to “study” her because BBC’s intentions are never going to be in our best interest.

  • http://www.freshgoddess.com Fresh Goddess

    Bene,
    To your question, “Do Black women really need to fight another battle with each other?” I don’t think we as Black women, women of color think about that when we’re sneering at one another, behaving in insecure ways or feeling threatened by another sister on the job. This behavior comes from deep seated emotional issues – we could go back in time and through generations of Black women regarding this. Ever heard the saying, “Never let a single/young/attractive woman in your home…left alone with your husband?” Well who thought of this? And these are things that elder women tell younger women, so the message of *women aren’t trustworthy* keeps being passed down.

    But honestly, more than it being a “black woman” thing – I really believe this is a human issue. You know why? Because Asian, African, Hispanic, white and other groups of women experience the same thing on the job, in friendships, etc. If you ever get in conversations with them, they will tell you, “Oh so and so is trying to intimidate me on the job…so and so tried to make me look stupid in a meeting…”

    We live in a competitive society and one where film, TV, videos etc constantly hype up dialogue, images and scenarios of female cattiness. I watched an episode of the TV show “Modern Family” a month or so ago where Julie Bowen (white actress) character was threatened by Sofia Vergara (hispanic actress) character. They were both supposed to co-chair a school function for their kids, but Bowen felt threatened and began doing sabotaging things to Vergara. I’ve seen this type of scenario on many occasions, amongst women. And it’s sad.

    I do not hold other woman to the memory of when I was bullied or treated unfairly by Black girls as a child/teen. When you become a mature adult, you have to have measurements for your friendships based on trust, common interests, comfortability in communicating, non-competitveness, etc. These are things we didn’t know about or hold to, as kids so it’s not the same. But when you see those “bullying” and insecure traits in certain women, that’s a red flag and sadly you put them in the “not cool/no friend” box.

    The biggest thing I’ve seen as the downfall of Black female friendships is competition and jealousy. If each of us can learn to applaud our sisters, not invalidate, “one up”, or plot to steal someone else’s shine, things would definitely change.

    Great post!

  • http://dcmoviegirl.blogspot.com dcmoviegirl

    “House nigger vs. field nigger, light skin vs. dark skin, male vs. female, good hair vs. bad hair, were constructs created by white racists, but are being perpetuated by us.”

    Quoted for truth. I have worked with young black girls and often ran into a phenomenon I’ll call “public hating”. Basically, any aspect of another random black girl is evaluated, with just pure teeth-sucking, narrow-eyed, hatred.

    If the girl looks good, then it’s “she thinks she’s all that.” If she doesn’t, it’s “she looks so broke down.” You just can’t win.

    There definitely is a huge element of internalization involved and it’s not just those girls from so-called “bad areas”, with “bad upbringings”.

    On the other side of the coin, the so-called educated set, will call other sisters “ghetto” or not “down” enough if they don’t subscribe to their ways of thinking.

    It’s just sick how we judge each other for whatever reason and so damn harshly, when Lord knows we know better than anyone else how much society puts on us, how much we have to deal with, regardless.

    I’ve had to leave certain people behind, in what I thought were positive groups, because that’s what they were about, in the guise of the uplift.

    “Good, educated, right-thinking, negroes (only) in the fight against whitey.” The uniting force was hating any way you flip it.

    We know how much we need the uplift, and yet too many of us insist on directing our energies into hating instead.

  • http://dcmoviegirl.blogspot.com dcmoviegirl

    It is definitely a human issue, but I think it’s distilled by the fact of black womanhood and how society views that.

  • Tomi

    Who are you responding too o_O? If you are responding to my comments the two up there keep floating around on different pages because a comment was deleted by an admin…

  • Tomi

    Also that was rude. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. I have no problem with assholes and their BLACK WOMEN ARE THE SPAWN OF THE DEVIL rant as long as they acknowledge it’s their own opinion and no one else’s. Sarge can’t do that apparently because he is the voice of the people.

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    “I don’t have a problem with your tirade against these women. I do have a problem with you LUMPING US ALL AS ONE GROUP and bashing black women on this thread for no reason other than the fact that you like to talk”

    Black women as a COLLECTIVE – even the GREAT QUALITY “GOOD” BLACK WOMEN – as long as they either choose to ignore, omit, or deflect away from the truth.

    I’m seriously not going to play this game – of “WELL IM JUST A LONELY BLACK WOMAN ON AN ISLAND AND I KNOW NOT WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT”

    PLEASE this whole website is dedicated to exonerating black women.

    NO ACCOUNTABILITY.

    Then whenever u call a black woman out on anything – what do they do – POINT! and say it’s them other bi#ches over there.

    Furthermore black women have no issue going on TV and throwing black under the bus – I do not recall Black women coming out in droves to defend black men in the 90′s when they used to have all the “WHY DATE INTERRACIAL SHOWS”

    I do not remember black women coming out in droves to defend black men when “8 reasons to date a white man” came out on Madam Noire.

    Sitting back in silence and letting the bad speak for u is just as bad as being a part of that group.

    AND THAT’S BLACK WOMEN’S PROBLEM.

    Ya’ll have no issue coming together to throw black men under the bus or denying the claims that black men make – but as soon as BLAME or black women are to be called out on anything – BLACK WOMEN LIKE U SUDDENLY WANT TO DISPERSE.

    “OH THAT AIN’T ME – THAT’S THEM BI#CHES OVER THERE!”

    Please black men have been playing this gave with black women for over 30 years.

    Ya’ll can’t handle the reality of guilty by affiliation – nor the reality that these black women OUT NUMBER YA’LL – JUST LIKE THE RAY RAY AND POOKIES OUT NUMBER US!

    Stupid thing is – WE AIN’T PICKING THE BELLIGERENT WOMEN AS BLACK MEN.

    But MOST BLACK WOMEN CAN’T GET ENOUGH OF THOSE RAY RAYS!

    Then next thing u know u want men like me to pick up the pieces and blaming me for being on the other side of the fence and wanna talk about how the numbers are so low – BOO HOO!

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    I do not think that there is enough black men out here who are where they need to be. And I believe that the numbers on black women are over exaggerated – Too many black women over appraise themselves, majority of black women are NOT MICHELE OBAMA MAKING 6 FIGURES! Please!

    But they keep promoting that idea – “BLACK WOMEN ROCK!”

    Black women are not a self sufficient group – they are just like black men – they have not created much of anything.

    Black women are not hiring black women – they are getting hired by white men who are reluctant to hire black men.

    Then black women run around with their heads all big like they are self made – then can’t wonder y that puts brothas off.

    The issue I see is generational – The next generation of girls needs to be taught the type of black man to look for early and not settle for less – Im not talking gold diggers I’m talking FOR BUILDING A FAMILY!

    Too many of todays black girls – grow up wanting the Thug – THE BOYS SEE THAT – wanna be that thug – fall off – catch a felony – and then at 28 black women switch up and want the next Barack –

    Even the Barack have wised up.

    The focus needs to be on the next generation of girls when it comes to selection – and when it comes to the boys – talking about BLACK MALE EMPOWERMENT-

    Makes no sense to keep talking about BLACK FEMALE EMPOWERMENT – when the women are already claiming they are THERE – but yet the men are not – and they have no one to be with.

    There are other problems in the shadows as well because even for the well to do black men out here and the women out here – many of them are incompatible because men were taught to be leaders and captains of their own ships – and so were the women.

    Who’s out of place? Black men fix the complaints that black women make only to discover at 30 – that very few black women were taught to accept or get with the ship that u built.

    These men’s solution – going to other communities where getting with a mans ship is MORE THE NORM.

  • rugglebyc

    Would the author please direct us to the BBC piece that is the crux of your argument? It would help us to understand what you’re getting at. And by the way, if it’s a published piece, there aren’t any confidentiality issues at work. Thanks!

  • http://qalil-com.blogspot.com Qalil Little

    What is always interesting is the focus on women who do not have black female friends. There are many black women with friends who are mostly black. I’m wondering where their interviews are.

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    “Now my knock on SWP is that he allows BW to get him angry and start going Super Saiyan on y’all…”

    LOL TOUCHE

  • Paulette

    can we agree to state the age of the person commenting. There is no way a 40 yr old can debate with a 20 yr old for obvious reasons.

  • Faye

    Why don’t you just date women who don’t like those types of men? Being interested in people who are not interested in you will just keep you in a perpetual state of anger. Not all black women like thugs, the same way that not all black women like ho’s.

  • Kim

    That all would be believable young man, if you were not here on this site.
    No matter who you date or marry, they will eventually see you for the troubled young man you are. Becky and who ever else will get tired too.

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    @ FAYE – “Why don’t you just date women who don’t like those types of men? Being interested in people who are not interested in you will just keep you in a perpetual state of anger. Not all black women like thugs, the same way that not all black women like ho’s”

    Hey I fully agree with you, but the truth is its just not that easy. That’s like me saying to u – or to those black women who complain – that they should just go out here and obviously date eligible quality black men – just because I say to.

    Ain’t that easy.

    The problem for me like me really is in finding those women – because every black woman thinks that they are not in the “said” group. And then you have women that have one of the main issues that deter men period even if they aren’t the thug chasing type.

    1) Kids out of wedlock – (I HAVE NO CHILDREN)
    2) Weight issues
    3) Attitude
    4) Matriarchal – “I have the D” mentality.

    5) Thug chasers – then suddenly switcher uppers at 30 are only 1 part of the problem.

    By no means is a brotha lookin for the PERFECT WOMAN – but we are talking MARRIAGE HERE! and a marriage is supposed to last.

    Then there’s the issue of just simply not being attracted to someone regardless of the fact that on paper they got everything going on.

    Black women like to take that argument into the white beauty standard direction which has some validity – but ur MANY of ur busted black women try to run with that one. “I KNOW WHAT IT IS… THAT’S THAT SELF HATE!”

    Nah chick u just busted.

    And see this can be said about black men who look good on paper but just ain’t the best LOOKERS – but black men CAN NOT SAY THIS ABOUT BLACK WOMEN?

    WHY?!

    If I think a black woman is unattractive and she’s dating outside her race – I CAN’T COMPLAIN – I DID NOT WANT HER!

    but the same type of undesired brothas date out and it’s an issue for SOME BLACK WOMEN. I ask them one question – “HEY WERE U CHECKIN FOR HIM?”

    NO! – Thats like the Tiger Woods argument – I mean for real how many black woman wanted Tiger? Money works for men regardless of race of the women – U got paper women check for u PERIOD even if ur busted on corny.

    Women tend to overlook looks when they are looking for STABILITY LATER IN LIFE.
    Men tend to focus more on looks which is one of our vices – but I think that has to do more with reproduction. Women don’t produce children throughout their lifetime.

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    @ Faye – so lets not down play looks – It is a significant factor and I would never encourage anyone male or female to get with someone simply because they look good on paper. However, the men that black women choose tend to be the destructive type causing far more issues for a black woman – than a black man simply getting with a pretty woman who doesn’t have much else going on than her looks – yes there’s exceptions to the rule – but I wouldn’t compare BW getting with Thugs – black men getting with DIMES.

    I don’t think I need to go thru the reasons why.

    I think that a lot of black women over appraise themselves and this is encouraged. Women just don’t have the benefit of doing like men and compensating for their lack of beauty with their earning potential.

    THAT’S WHAT A LOT OF WOMEN DON’T GET.

    And a lot of black women throw black men underneath the bus FIRST! instead of checking to see if they got things going on that are going to turn BLACK MEN OFF – especially the so called BEST.

    The thing with lets say corny or undesired black men – if their stock is low HERE – then they are just going to go where it’s gonna be a little bit higher relative to where they are.

    Many black women get mad at this ignoring that REAL TALK they only want like 20% of the educated BM – the MBA having looks like Idris Elba

    That’s rare – just like Black dimes with a brain are rare.

    Neither groups are checking for each other mainly due to lack of attraction – that has nothing to do with OTHER RACES OR BEAUTY STANDARDS.

    What needs to happen is that more of the street guys need to educated – because that’s where most black men are.

    And more of the educated black women need to take care of themselves like the dime dumb chicks.

    Not saying all dimes are dumb or uneducated – but the reality is – WE AIN’T SWIMMING IN THEM.

    Like I said it’s not about perfect tens – but trying to find a black woman who is in shape, attractive, childless, educated, traditional, with no attitude is DIFFICULT.

    And every black woman SWEARS – SHE’S ALREADY IN THAT CATEGORY.

    This just simply isn’t the case – and many women are in denial about it. If I see one more BIG BEHIND CHICK WIT 2 kids talk about her degrees and black men in jail as to y SHE don’t have a man I’m bout finna to YELL!

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    @ Faye forgot to say – I wouldn’t encourage someone to get a person they are not attracted to either – regardless of gender.

    Its just that if negative consequences come out of that LUST or attractive – don’t throw the whole gender under the bus or start blaming others – U PICKED THAT PERSON.

    Black women have a really bad tendency of doing this.

    If a black man gets with a stripper and she ain’t wife material and he gets to complaining black men ain’t gonna co sign that – we gonna look at the brotha like – WELL WHAT U THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN – u should have just done ur business and kept it moving.

    Black women on the other had – frequently with do the opposite. Its like damn – how come no one is tellin the chick WELL… we could of told u he wasn’t about nothing – I mean how much do u expect coming from a DMX type Ninja?

    A white house on the hill with a white picket fence?

    There are consequences to bad choices and even the most upwardly mobile of black women face theirs. Black men know when they are not JUSTIFIED TO SPEAK!

  • Jennifer

    I see the conversation has gotten derailed again. I am going to assume the proprietor of this site is more concerned with pageviews than having a productive discussion. I cannot imagine any other reason she allows these men to derail the discussion time and time again.

    I don’t understand this obsession with black women, a demographic they purportedly hate. There are no shortage of sites on the internet with a predominantly white audience. Go and engage the women you love over there. It’ll be a better use of your time and I, for one, will be thrilled to see you go to “Becky” (to use your term).

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    “I see the conversation has gotten derailed again. I am going to assume the proprietor of this site is more concerned with pageviews than having a productive discussion. I cannot imagine any other reason she allows these men to derail the discussion time and time again.

    I don’t understand this obsession with black women, a demographic they purportedly hate. There are no shortage of sites on the internet with a predominantly white audience. Go and engage the women you love over there. It’ll be a better use of your time and I, for one, will be thrilled to see you go to “Becky” (to use your term).”

    Comments like this only further support what black men have been trying to say about black women.

    The topic was already addressed – black women too often ignore the TRUTH in many of their stereotypes and dismiss them as baseless derogatory epithets towards black women. Instead of taking the little bit of truth in that that they can swallow and sayin –

    “Damn is this really how we’re viewed? We need to change somethings around.”

  • Tomi

    Wasn’t quoting him. Wasn’t even talking about him in particular. But alright.

  • Andrea

    I’m a 17 yr old black female and I am bossy and demanding..
    (I’m very proud of my heritage and who I am. And how DOMINANT black women can be.)
    I have a WHITE boyfriend,( I never looked at a white man as better than a black man or vice versa. People seem to think that so I thought I’d throw that in.) who only liked WHITE girls.
    But he asked me out, ( He said he liked how I demanded respect, and was saving myself for marriage) and we’ve been together for a year and a half now.
    He’s my best friend and race is not an issue.The thing about stereotypes is that they hold SOME truth.. meaning it could apply to SOME people.. I mean damn, all Mexicans aren’t gardeners, All BLONDES aren’t DUMB, All JEWS don’t have huge NOSES, All TALL people don’t play BASKETBALL. AND ALL BLACK WOMEN ARE NOT GHETTO, SASSY, CATTY.. ETC. But They’re STEREOTYPES. A sad sad thing that EVERYONE will have to live with for the REST of their LIVES.

  • http://generation-x.net Sargewp

    OMG – this coming from a 17 year old black female – EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!!

    FACE PALM

    “I’m a 17 yr old black female and I am bossy and demanding..
    (I’m very proud of my heritage and who I am. And how DOMINANT black women can be.)”

    YET WHEN BLACK MEN SAY THIS TYPE OF THINKING HOLDS TRUE FOR MOST BLACK WOMEN – WE ARE OVER GENERALIZING!?! –

    FACE PALM AGAIN.

  • Yana

    Jennifer asked a valid question. Why are you on this site instead of jumping the fence?

  • knockoutchick

    It seems to me a lot of men commenting on this mag site and many other places on the ‘net haven’t travelled far beyond their backyards or their grandmama’s back yard.

    It is so sad and pathetic to see grown men post thoughts like. “Black women only want ballers”, “Black women only want men with swagger or thugs”. It shows how narrow a view of the world many of us have. It also says to me that these men have not interacted with a broad group of women of ANY race. Because if they had interacted with different races and different CLASSES, they would know how juvenile they appear.

    If they had any vision, they would know nothing they describe is common to BW alone, so their posts seem bitter and angry.

    Young women throughout the Westen world are enamored with sports stars, athletes and tough guys. And young men throughout the West spend a lot of energy trying to attain that “swagger” or masculine edge in whatever way they can. The only men I have ever heard express bitterness and anger over women’s attraction to tough male figures are black American men.

    Most men other than black American men, just seem to accept that tall men get more attention, athletic men get more attention, bad boys and alpha males get more attention and so on. Those men simply accept that and do what they can to attract the women they love.

    It is very entertaining the men in this vid spend hours and thousands of dollars to try to compete with the footballers many young men seem drawn to. I also found it quite humourous.

    http://www.vbs.tv/watch/rule-britannia/rule-britannia-beautiful-liverpool-episode-3

  • yep

    if your so deeply disappointed then pick something else, its real easy to do.

  • kim

    Beause he is a weak young man who is mad at the world. He realizes he will never measure up and he must take it out on someone.

  • yep

    if your so deeply disappointed then pick something else, its real easy to do…

  • The Taker

    “And lacking backbone in my teen years (I am 23)”

    I can see if these comments were coming from a…let’s say a 38 year old black man and he has gone through a myriad of bad relationships but it’s coming from somebody who probably just graduated high school maybe 5 years ago. Apparently he is still bitter that alot of the black girls in high school played him or didnt want him. So I wont attack because its foolish.

    At 23 years old, you are beginning to experience life, you are opening up new chapters and so on and so on. Im not saying because you are young, your “experiences” arent valid, hell Im younger than you but really seriously. I’ve had young black boys in h.s. tease me like crazy (they confessed it was their way of showing how much they like me -_-) and they used to act like ignant ass fools but that doesnt mean I will hold most black men in contempt or even believe in the stereotypes because of some assholes in h.s. Why? Because I know that since I dont know most black men, who the hell am I too say most perpetuate certain stereotypes. Most of these comments posted are opinions based off what we experienced not because its a truth or a fact.

    I’ve traveled a bit in and out of and around America (thanks dad) to know that many stereotypes written about black people arent true. Of course l met the stereotypical ghetto ass, loud-mouthed,thugged-out, many baby mommas/daddies having black men and women but I also met educated, artsy, cultured, stylish, soft/well-spoken, hard-working, adventurous black people (I considered myself one of them ;- ) )

    My point: Never try to past off your experiences as truth. What you have gone through, doesnt mean anybody else has. Just because you are surrounded by stereotypical ass black people doesnt mean all of us are. Get out of your surroundings(if you can) and go find another place where you meet people who are thriving and striving.

  • Eva

    You avoid deeply flawed women like the syphilis and yet you parade yourself in the sexpool where you will most likely attract the syphilis. If you AVOID deeply flawed women then stop parading blogozines that cater to deeply flawed persons

    Are you ok? Do you need help?

  • Eva

    What will you call mis-educated white man? imitation of who? Your point is?

  • omg

    roflmblackao.

    you are too damn funny.

    btw, syphllis is caused by bacterium, not a virus. that’s why you can take antibiotics for it and not something like herpes, which is caused by a virus. i think that was in junior high school health science or was it high school biology? i guess you didn’t get that far in school.

    bacteria get antibiotics.
    viruses no antibiotics. that’s one reason why there’s no cure for hiv. it’s a virus. we generally develop vaccines for viruses.

    done with taking you to school…

  • Zero

    I find it interesting how so many woman on this site can’t concede or even swallow the notion that conditioning exists and that black women could possibly be susceptible to some of this. If it makes them feel any better, maybe the point of the documentary isn’t to blame black women or put them in a bad light necessarily, but to diagnose some of the problems facing black women. I doubt that lady did the documentary just for the sole purpose of throwing black women underneath the bus.

    That’s of course if black women are willing to learn about themselves rather than who they like to think they are, rather than lash out at the world and in insulate oneself in victim hood.

  • http://misslittlepiggy.tumblr.com/ Shiko

    Only race of people where conversations like this happen and take precedent over more important issues such as education and racism. That aside I am of the opinion that relationships happen on the basis of attraction. I will date a man if I’m attracted to him and I assume that a black man will date a woman if he’s attracted to her. I doubt trying to force a woman down his throat on the basis of skin color will be successful in anyway. What I don’t support however is putting down what you don’t prefer. I don’t prefer short men but no one sees me running around coming up with ridiculous theories about why they’re inadequate. You don’t like loud, don’t date loud, you don’t like “ghetto”, don’t date “ghetto” and if she says she likes thugs close that chapter and find someone who isn’t infatuated with a “hard” man. With the way people carry on you would think this is rocket science.

  • Really?

    Lol,

    What about your tumblr? I thought you might be spewing enlightening stuff but instead you have post related to dating, Chris Brown, Shamika Sanders, pretty boy swagg….etc.

    hahahahaa tooo funny!

    Good comedic relief.

  • Really?

    You almost sound similar to akat042001: http_www_youtube_com_watch?v=7ym4XtxCZ88

    She expressed the same sentiments.

    Akat felt the same way, her sentiments were targeted towards African american women (not Caribbeans or African woman).

    Are you Caribbean?

    Thought that was interesting. Also, with the use of words, be careful when you don’t specify or use words like “all” (although I don’t think you did).

    Ganbatte.

  • Dlf

    I’m english and I feel a little embarressed about this doc looks like the bbc wanted to jump on this bw single and bitter bandwagon.
    It always feels good to know some one else is more dysfunctional than you especially in this climate eh? (the recession!)
    A word of advice to all african american women: DONT TRUST JOURNALISTS no MATTER what they say they WILL throw you under the bus- it’s just in their nature lol! But seriously, sterotypes do hold some water though and as a marginalised group black people as a whole have to think very carefully how they portray themselves as they don’t control the media’s perception of them and that really impacts society’s perception not just in the states- but globally.

  • Anon

    SWP I have to say im a little disapointed in you. I thought you had moved on from this – its so tedious; addressing women who you KNOW full well are not going to match you let alone beat you in an argument, just so you can prove you are in the right and a superior thinker- its beneath you. Start having mature and ADULT discussions with intelligent and worldy people or are you worried that you wont look so clever in comparison?

  • Patti

    I really enjoyed reading this article. It pains me to think of the ways we have been divided as race and now as black women. Growing up with four sisters, raised by women, and being in a sorority has made me celebrate the differences in black women and that we all add to the wonderful tapestry of black women. As child, I got a whoppin’ & a tongue lashin’ for talking about another black girl. We have different personalities, backgrounds, stories, and so much more. I hate when we try to prove that we are different and that “different” is special and better. Yes, we are different but that makes us better than any other black women. I don’t like when people (i.e. white people, black men,whoever) say that you’re “different”. What does that mean? I’m different from mass majority of “bad” black women that they have encountered. Or “different” from the stereotypes THEY define us as. I hate that! There are wonderful black women from all walks of life. What some black women do is try so hard to be “different” to set them apart of other black women that they create division in their own minds and hearts. We have got to do better.

  • Cliff

    A 40yo debating with a 20 is like a 20yo debating with a 15yo. And when I say that I dont mean that in a disrespectful manner, when you get over 35yo you begin to realize things that you didnt see when you were in your 20′s. That’s just life….. accept it.

  • Lolabadchick

    YAWN… BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO TIRED OF HEARING BLACK PPL COMPLAIN ABOUT “WHAT THEY WANT” OR “WHO DID WHAT TO WHO”!!

    CHANGE THE WAY YOU PPL ACT AS A WHOLE!!!

    YES, I SAID IT!

  • Demita C.

    They ARE all the same person. This is one of several BW-dedicated sites being hijacked and taunted so that we avoid discussing our issues and enjoy a sense of community amongst like-minded Black Women. I refuse to acknowledge this person who has since, per much reporting to site’s admin, been banned &/or blocked. They’ve now come back with a plethora of aliases. You know how to expose & shame this person?? IGNORE IT/”them”!! “They” will tire themselves when there is no audience & move on. I refuse to leave. I’d rather ignore the ignorant & immature person who has nothing better to do than to hurt others on THEIR territory.

    How disgusting. Nothing we say or do will have an effect. His job is simply to distract and weigh down the Black Woman. He is nothing to me.

  • Demita C.

    SO LEAVE US THE HE!! ALONE & GET THE HECK OFF OF OUR SITE!!!!!!!!!

  • Demita C.

    I agree…so go back to your corner where everyone’s better & stop bothering US. I know if someone could not be reached or I hated someone, I sure wouldn’t be on THEIR site period. All of you who are too good to be here… PACK UP YOUR BAGS OF ANGER & REJECTION and GO!!!!!!!!!!

  • Demita C.

    @Tomi

    If you believe that this is the voice of the peope as you say, then I’m totally confused. It is the voice of troubled, pathetic hate mongers who deliberately attack BW. It is not the voice of the people…it is the voice of a small minority of extremely marginalized hopeless hate junkies.

    I appreciate you, Sister, and I did not mean any harm. It’s just upsetting to see a fellow BW spar with this _______ that doesn’t and will never see you as a human being worthy of having feelings or a sound mind. Just hate to see you tango with the insanity that this _______ brings to the table is all.

    We BW do internalize quite a bit of the negativity that practically beaten into us by the human population at large. It would be fair if all non-BW would take a objective look at the way we are portrayed and treated by all and answer truthfully how they would fare in this world?

  • LemonnLime

    Wow… some of these comments… it truly isn’t that serious. It seems that two of these people writing comments have some serious problems with black women that they may need to discuss with a medical professional or family member or friend or religious leader or hell even a pet but NOT posting on comments board.

    Really do you think that harassing and insulting the women on this site is doing anything to prove your sorry sad opinions? All you are doing making it difficult to wade through comments that do relate to these articles. If you think that the angry bitter rantings and mass generalizations of 2 faceless nameless individuals is going to hurt the feelings of anyone on this site or better yet change us all into black June Cleavers or whatever it is you want, you are gravely mistaken and wasting your time. SO please take your foolishness back to youtube and leave our magazine in peace!

  • your article summed it up in a nutshell

    Your article said it all and summed up all and so many feelings in a nutshell. I think black women are nice to everyother type of person but when it comes to another black female I dont see black women doing that. They are getting better they were better at being more sisterly to each other back in the day. But, like this article states why it does not happen.

    When women are petty like that to each other it serves no benefit but more work in the long run. I have seen a black woman that was in a position and my white friend said oh she is so nice I love her. YEah, the way she sucked face with every nationality other than her own. But, with other black women she was a scoundrel. Just vicious even her own sister lol. The other race of women noticed it and many found it unappealing and come back stating how it turned them off. One even confronted her about it. I didnt they could notice or understand what was going on within the black girl politics that was how bad she was and how embrassing she became to be. I didnt care she was that way. I have been use this beep since birth. What was the sickening part is that other people outside of the ethnic background began to take note.

    Then all of sudden she tried to come around. LOL And, I am like I have a hard time forgetting!

    This was beautifully written article. I totally hear you and got you!

  • Alexandra

    The comment section must have a glitch, cause the order of time/dates are all over the place.
    Makes it hard to read. I wish people went back on topic.

    Topic is: Black women internalizing stereotypes about them. Do you agree or disagree? Jeez. I think everyone can agree some stereotypes are true and some are not. But the main point is, how some Black women believe in the stereotypes about them and judging themselves and other Black women because of it.

    I agree and disagree. Someone above mentioned some Black women “trying hard” to be “different” and failing miserably. I personally seen that a lot, especially amongst grown women.These women in my opinion are trying super hard to avoid being classed into the stereotypes, so they distance themselves to try to be different from “them” (stereotypical Black women), even if they do fit some of those stereotypes. These women are the result of internalizing stereotypes.

  • Marie Madeleine

    Thank you very much for writing this article. Sooo true. We shouldnt judge anyone black or whites from getto just because they must reside there. Some getto girls are all the good things you mentioned and some expensive neighborhood girls can be the opposite.

  • RetroChic

    I wonder of there is a standard of “blackness” that we aspire to for the validation (maybe even safety in some cases) from other sisters.
    I do consider myself lucky to have as many black women as close friends and mentors. I hope all of us can claim the same in time.

  • http://thenewcoolblog.wordpress.com walter

    This is a tricky subject to navigate. I will do my best to be as poignant and brief as possible. Black women do have the reputation as being catty towards each other. This is true in all races to be honest. But through television and other media outlets this is the only image we see of black women. The one that is angry, b!tchy, jealous, and ghetto. And it is unfortunate that these images are being portrayed through so called “reality” tv shows. Shows such as Basketball Wives, RHOA, and now Love and Hip Hop. These shows have done a great job of taking ghetto from something that was associated with the lower economic class to showing America and the world that even black women with ACCESS to money can act just as ghetto and uncivilized. I think that is doing more damage to the image of the black women, due to the fact that it’s black women doing this to black women. Not the black man disrespecting them, not a white man. But black women tossing around the word b!tch, grabbing and pulling hair, extreme neck rolling and finger pointing, and threatening to whip a$$ at the first sign of perceived disrespect.

    These shows also have a damaging effect on the male psyche. This happens because again it is black women with money doing this to black women with money. So now we are forced to think that these attitudes and actions don’t just happen in the hood. And we see black women flock to these shows, watching them faithfully and flooding FB timelines and twitter with comments about these shows. So we view them as guilty by association. If we have tried to dismiss these as untruths the loyal female following validates these theorums. And I don’t believe this is by accident.

    Look at what BET did to The Game. A show that was once thought to have intelligence and well built characters, has become nothing but a even more scripted reality show. And perhaps the worst thing about it is that it happened once it moved to BLACK Entertainment Television.

    There are many shades of women. In complexion and in attitude, but only one brush and style is being used right now and black women are hanging on their walls

  • j

    right on sister! right on! (god i feel so outdated using that lol but that was the thought in my head when i read it)

Latest Stories

Maya Rudolph Scores Her Own Variety Show! Janelle Monae, Craig Robinson & Raphael Saadiq to Appear

by

Dating Don’ts: Love In The Age Of Instagram

by

New Study: Young Women View Incidents of Sexual Assault as Normal

by

Pew Center: Only a Quarter of Americans Consider Pres. Obama ‘Black’

by
Read previous post:
Bi-phobia is the New Black
I’d Abort
Close