Celebrating the Black Beauty On White Women

by Danielle C. Belton

Everybody likes a winner.

Which is the only way I can really explain the success of the Kardashians. They won the genetic lottery by being born relatively attractive while being the scion of a wealthy and prominent Los Angeles attorney. Bonus points for living in a country that has no royal family, so all sorts of kind of rich people have a shot at being “de facto” royalty of various classes. (Like the Kennedys, for you folks who don’t know who the Kennedys are, would be the Kardashian Family of Politics. Ugh. Sorry, I think I might have vomited a bit just after typing that.)

Of course, though, you can’t just become famous for nothing. You still have to sort of do something besides be pretty and rich. You need a gimmick. For heiress Paris Hilton, that was an accidental sex tape. For Kim Kardashian, that was an “accidental” sex tape, with a black guy and a big ass this time.

I once joked upon the first time seeing Kardashian that I could see why a certain subset of black men fell all over themselves for her because she really didn’t look that different from the prettiest light skinned, long haired, big booty black girl of their video girl dreams — only she wasn’t a black girl. Making her some sort of Racial Sex Unicorn. All the black girl parts they liked, but with none of that “black girlness.” Because, ew, black girls, right? A white woman with a black booty is like a pack of psychological Splenda – still as sweet as sugar, but without the burden of slavery, systematic racism, and centuries of internalized hate and taboos.

But, oh! I can’t help what I love! Whatever, dude. So much of what we love is conditioned by popular culture, history, fads, and social mores. When being “thick” was a sign of wealth and higher class status because most Europeans were serfs, dropping dead from the Black Plague, everyone wanted a big ole booty. Big ole booty meant you had enough food that you could actually eat for recreation, not just sustenance. If you never left Sub-Sahara Africa (and it was never colonized by Europeans), you’d probably still think being pale with long, thin, light-colored hair was a sign of being old and in poor health. Now our “beauty” ideals are malnourished 14-year-old, six-feet-tall former Soviet bloc country fashion models styled to look like “women,” and oversexed PhotoShop illusions with tiny waists and scientifically enhanced butts n’ boobs.

If society tells you, from birth, that you should dream of marrying Blake Lively, but dream of screwing Nicki Minaj, a woman with Blake’s face and Nicki’s ass is going to trade high on the “male gaze” market.

Which brings us back to Kim Kardashian. (And by proxy, her sisters, Ice-T’s wife Coco, Angelina Jolie’s lips who are gorgeous on her, but “ordinary” on every other black girl in America, etc.) This goes beyond just physical beauty.

Everyone likes black stuff when it’s not on a black person. Ask Elvis. Ask Led Zepplin. Ask the “Justins” – Timberlake and Bieber. Our music, asses, lips, hair, dance moves are all crass vulgarities until some non-white person “cleans them up” and “makes them accessible” by doing the exact same thing – but being white while doing it. And these days, you can be white and completely sincere about your love of R&B or Hip Hop or having a fat ass and society will still gladly put you on that “Oh, but a white person did it this time” pedestal – whether you asked for it or not. And they’ll go there “oooing” and “aaahing” as if your mentors and predecessors meant nothing. As if your pop n’ lock routine came to them mature and fully-formed like Venus from the sea foam.

Eminem can write all the love songs to his mentor Dr. Dre as he likes, but for some folks he’s EMINEM! Stop ruining their fantasy.

Case in point: When the 2012 Grammy nominations were released Adele’s ground-breaking album wasn’t listed among the “R&B” albums. But if Adele isn’t singing R&B, then what on Earth is she singing? “Rolling In the Deep” is pop music? Does Adele know she’s singing pop music?

Oh, yeah. She’s white, so the old codgers who handed out the Grammys probably thought she cleaned up and classed up that pesky “race music.”

(Bruno Mars is also listed under “Pop” in this year’s Grammy nominations. Apparently if more than “just” black people buy your music you’re “Pop.” Is Cee-Lo Green “Pop?” Nope. He was only nominated in the R&B categories.)

It’s not even worth getting mad about anymore. Heck, you’ll even find some black folks who love the Kardashians and will defend them vigorously. After all, they seem pretty committed to pulling random black athletes out of obscurity. I’m sure that wins bonus points for someone. Plus, again, it’s not like the Kardashians invented the “it’s better when a white person does it” game. They’re just the players. And you can’t hate the players who are, in essence, the winners of this game.

And everyone likes winners.

So I hope you have a happy Kardashian Khristmas.

  • LemonNLime

    Maybe it is just me but I could give a crap less about white people with black features. I consider black features timeless while Hollyweird considers them today’s trend but I doubt they will be here tomorrow. I think that is because I had parents that told me I was beautiful so you couldn’t tell me otherwise. I am more so disgusted by everything the Kardashians represent (greed, materialism, stupidity, etc.) rather than what they look like. I will say this, when curves are no longer the “in” thing, I wonder how fast it will take Kim to deflate that “real” behind?

  • Clnmike

    So basically Kim Kardashian is the arch nemesis of black women given the amount of attention given to her by them. Oh well thats what happens when you seek validation in others.

    BTW aint nothing ground breaking in Adele’s album.

  • http://www.coffeerhetoric.com Coffey

    In addition to the continued media attention this family banks off of, it really bugs me that some Black women feed into the hype and somehow see these broads as competition or some sort of threat to their sensibilities. Stop allowing the media and poor, wayward souls with delusions of grandeur, to use novelties as a weapon to assault the Black female aesthetic, because at the end of the day it’s all smoke-and-mirrors. Let the hungry beast starve… stop feeding it.

  • Guilty

    2011 was apparently the year for people of African Descent and I don’t see black people going anywhere ANYTIME soon. The two highest grossing couples of last year were black. Don’t you fret the Kardashians really are just a fad. Like Kim’s ex said “Once you have kids and get older NO one will care” or sumthin like that. Rihanna has put ot an album every year for the past 5-6 years and you can barely go a week without see here on the front page of something. I LOVE Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones I’m not going to ignore societal issues because I’m sure in some way or another they exist. BUT CAN YOU PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING SO MUCH ABOUT THESE TRIVIAL THINGS!!!
    Black people are woderful and have done so many great things which you’ve covered to a great extent, but I think the Kardashians ar okay looking. I can’t blame anyone for the fact that Kim has a big ass anymore than I can blame myself for being brown. Just embrace what you have fuck media if they don’t cover it. Just do you!

  • isolde

    Nice to see “Snob” writing for us again.

    That said . . .

    Ahh, my eyes! I can’t take all this photo-shop! Who is that woman standing next to Lamar Odom cuz it sure as hell aint Kholoe?

  • http://LesBoom.Tumblr.Com LesBoom

    Dallas is having a f*cking field day with the Kardashian Klan. Every five seconds you hear someone talking about a “Khloe sighting” and this is only the beginning smh.

    Sidebar: The car ads are getting a bit crazy around here…

  • http://LesBoom.Tumblr.Com LesBoom

    Sidebar: Sidebar: That Everything is Remixed vid is AH MA ZING. I will be following thr series closely. Thanks for the heads up!

  • apple

    cant wait for the comments on this
    brb going get popcorn

  • Please Believe

    Gurl—Preach! I have noticed this long before the Kardashians came about and it will be true long after they fade into obscurity. We (black people & to a certain extent, society as a whole) put a premium on things/people that pretty much adopt our features. It somehow makes them special. Kim and her whole family are laughing straight to bank, and that’s why I simply cannot have any respect for men like Lamar Odom—no social consciousness–just mindless materialism and consumerism; no sense of uplifting your own people. But he’s a jock that plays basketball. Am not moved. I’m going to continue to live a happy life!

  • QON

    I think this talk about “black features” is very dangerous. It can open a door to all kinds of things we will not be ready to defend as black people. Why do we only hear about black feature?. No one ever uses the term white or Asian features.

    Can we not pretend that Kim K. and Jolie arent attractive women? Their fame comes from their attractiveness not their supposed “black features” on a white woman.

    Lets also not forget that black men didnt choose Kim Kardashian, she choose them. An attractive white woman, with her own loot, choose them as romantic partners. You cant pigeon hole her as some “fat-sloppy trailer park white girl” or some golddigger looking to get in a baller’s pocket.

    Lastly black women better be careful about concepts such as “black features.” It will bite us in the butt one day-so to speak. If black beauty is reduced to butts and lips, we we will eventually become obsolete.

  • Dr. Chancellor Williams

    Great solid comment!

  • Dr. Chancellor Williams

    All other “races” are but diluted variations of the Black race family.

  • Are You Serious Bro

    You sound like a massive hater and come off as a writer who is extremely jealous, not just of white women, but of any one who fits outside the norm in any way that gains attention from a large audience. The way you wrote this made it seem like Kim K and anything like her are a threat to black women worldwide. Newsflash Kim Kardashian is not the only women out their with a pretty face, a nice butt, and some breast. They make them hand made and naturally throughout all parts of the Earth. Get over it.

    Clnmike and Coffey are right, this is not a competition. Put the spoon down and stop feeding into the non sense. This is not Mortal Kombat, and Kim Kardashian prototype should not be playing the role of Shang Tsung to black women’s Liu Kang.

  • Mahogany

    Could point QON!

  • Mahogany

    Why always compare the white women to black women? I hardly here comparison between white and black men, especially when it comes to features. Do we really have to claim the big lips and big butts? Do we own these features? Is that our only trademark? Come on! I know plenty of black women with flat behinds, straight hair and pointy noses. We as black people are very diverse especially when it comes to features so let’s not generalize here.

    We can’t uplift our people if we are always comparing ourselves to others.

  • Perverted Alchemist

    You haven’t heard the comparisons between White men and Black men? Just read the comments section on Clutch and you’ll see them…A LOT!!!!

    For the longest time, Black women have always been compared to White women- some of the time, Black women are doing it themselves. I think a lot of it has to to with America’s so-called “beauty standards” and a need to compete…against what, I don’t know.

  • LemonNLime

    I was thinking more about this. How are some in the black community any different? People go crazy over white women with full lips and butts, how is that any different from black people who go gaga over black people with natural “white features” like green eyes or straight hair? The black community puts a high premium on that just as those in the white community do for full butts and lips.

    Thankfully I take my value a self worth from myself beyond just my looks. I don’t need holllyweird telling me anything and I think it would be best if we didn’t allow butts and lips to define us as a people because we are so much more than that.

  • Isis

    What ur saying is true but it shouldnt bother u because we know why women like her are so coveted. Lets focus on us

  • Kacey

    Well said, Danielle.

    I’ve always been puzzled by the adoration some black women have for Kim Kardashian. Here is a woman, with no talent and limited intelligence (just watch the show once, or , better yet, watch her in an interview, and you’ll see) who became famous for a sex tape and dating/bedding famous black men. Yet so many of us are trying to emulate her “style”, which she appropriated from black culture. There are tons of pretty, big-booty black women everywhere, even in Hollywood. But many of these black women still idolize Kim K. exactly for the reason Danielle stated – we think it looks better on a white woman. We have such internalized hate and scorn for ourselves and each other that we are always looking for a white validation of us to tell us we are OK. Sad.

  • mahogany

    *Good* point

  • Mimi

    GREAT ARTICLE!!! You certainly can’t deny that fact that a lot of white women are trying to obtain physical features at their plastic sugeon’s office that black women are genetically blessed with. And I think it goes without saying that we all know that black women come in a plethora of shapes and sizes. We all know that there is other things going on in our world. As a black woman who was blessed on top but not on bottom, I can take this article for what it is. Great social commentary.

  • http://www.dafixer.com Dafixer

    Dr. Francis Cress Welsing and Prof. Neely Fuller said, “If you do not understand racism, what it is and how it works, everything else you think you understand will only confuse you.” To those who think this article is just some form of griping or it’s not “Mortal Kombat” then maybe these types should seriously keep those heads in the sand. This is, in fact, a competition and the white side is playing their part of the game hard. It is that serious. We play our side as if we don’t care if the white side wins. We have to play our side of the chess board. Hyping light skins with fake blond hair is not playing our side. Pretending the elevation of people like Kim to a status she doesn’t deserve is not playing our side. The problem with too many Black folk is they don’t take this serioiusly enough. Then when they get hit with the racism that’s always there they walk about like dried out drug addicts wondering how it happenned. If one would stop preteding this is exactly what it is, then one would never be surprised.

    This is worse then Mortal Kombat, it’s Death Race 2000 – without the cheesey music.

  • TheBestAnonEver, Part 2

    I don’t know how you guys do it. The constant agonizing on and nitpicking at everything, every time. There is too much focus on everyone else and what they are doing. What is your business with the Kardashians? Focus on what you have control over; stop wasting time trying to figure out where other runners are, focus on your own race. I am not going to lie, I control my interactions with Af-Ams because after a while the constant whining just becomes too much to bear. Life is to short for all this. End of the year, still going about nonsense.

  • Isis

    True

  • Cantarah

    “Now our “beauty” ideals are malnourished 14-year-old, six-feet-tall former Soviet bloc country fashion models styled to look like “women,” and oversexed PhotoShop illusions with tiny waists and scientifically enhanced butts n’ boobs.”

    I agreed with your basic premise but this sentence was a cheap shot and a bridge too far.

    A) The women of former Soviet bloc nations aren’t any less “real” women then black American women. And even when they are are 20, 30, and 40 they tend to be tall and thin with thin, straight hair. In part because of genetics and in part because many (and often most) people in those countries go hungry.

    B) Mocking the genetics and poor diet of women in third world countries because a lucky few get propped up by magazines as the beauty ideal in the West when most of them would sell their right arm to live Danielle C. Belton’s life in the U.S., black and all, and not have to worry about their children going hungry or they or someone they love being sold by a human trafficking ring because the media makes black American women feel bad is kind of low.

  • SassyFrassy

    Kim Kardashian herself is not, of course. But I can’t lie that it bugs the holy hell out of me to see my attributes (as a black woman) ignored on me, but glorified when they are on someone else. Kim is just an example. (I.e. “Somebody walked off with alla my stuff.”)

    For another example, take a whooty (youtube the track) and tell me there isn’t a glorification of white girls with black booties… I know the song is rather coonish, but it still speaks of a permeating (and troubling) mindset.

  • Pilot

    Just focusing on the part about female beauty for a moment, you make a valid point in some regards, but it falls a bit flat when you really consider it carefully.

    The whole premise here is that you believe white women with big breasts, big asses and big lips are celebrated as beautiful, and that those features are “black” because a lot of black women have that in their physical makeup. You go on to say these “black” features” are not considered desirable until they’re seen on white women.

    My response is: I think all men of all races like big tits and big asses on women (as long as the T&A are not huge and sloppy), and always have liked big tits and asses. It is built into their DNA to respond to same. This isn’t new. Are those really “black-owned” that is, that mostly black women have these physical attributes?

    And if you turn this around, and say. well, black women as a group have very high rates of obesity, so would that look good on a white woman, too? Would that sub-group of obese white women be desired by white men and considered attractive by both men and women if they had the same levels of obesity as black women?

    How about if white women had kinky hair? That is a “black” physical attribute, right? Would those white women automatically be considered more attractive with this “black” physical gift? Although I personally like a natural hairstyle on a sista, my intuition is that the answer to my question is that white women (or Asian women, etc.) with “fros” would not be considered more attractive.

  • Clnmike

    Ignored by who? Because it surly isn’t black men, songs, magazines, music videos, books, movies, and pictorial books have all come out with black women’s butt alone being the subject. So who is ignoring you? The only answer to that is that your seeking attention from whites and their media, nothing I can tell you there but good luck on the search for the Holy Grail of white validation.

  • Clnmike

    Competition for what?

  • Rastaman

    WHOOP, WHOOP!

    It’s the sound of the racial police. You will be lucky if you get only stopped and frisked, step out of line and you might get a proverbail stick rammed up your “you know what”.

  • SassyFrassy

    First of all, obesity is not a black “trait.” It is an health epidemic sweeping through our community and should be a grave concern and is happening for more reasons than I care to get into now. We are not born that way. We are (FAR more than any other race) born with more pronounced sexual organs– larger breasts/booties/penises. This does not mean that all black women (or men) have this trait, but it is the norm. These stereotypes did not just fall out of the sky. Our bodies are, in fact, different. Not better or worse, per se, but different.

    This article is addressing those genetic differences that are glorified when they (through whatever means cause I still don’t think Kim’s ass is real, but that’s neither here nor there) find themselves on a white woman’s body.

    Also, there are cases were kinky hair is glorified on white women. They have been known to get “perms” to kink their hair up. And to get wigs. Also, kinks are just the purest forms of curls, so…

    It also bears to mention that this current fascination is a recent phenomenon.

  • Mz Monique

    That’s what I was thinking…

  • SassyFrassy

    Well, first of all, let me say that after reading my initial response to you and then your response, I think that I may have come off as a bit combative with you, and that was not my intention, cause I don’t even completely disagree with you. Tone is often the first casualty of comment threads. :)

    So, while I understand–and in large part agree–that we should not look to the media, or even much further than our own eyes for validation, I do think we can talk about these appropriations of our culture/identify in ways that can be cathartic and productive.

    Also, while I don’t personally look to the media for validation, and am pretty well-validated on my own, I still recognize that these things are happening.

  • jamesfrmphilly

    a natural black woman is the most beautiful thing in the universe.
    a sister with true self knowledge will not be concerned about what any white people do.
    peace to the black goddess on this solstice. peace yall.

  • SassyFrassy

    Also, part of the reason we are documented as having such high rates of obesity is because of our body types. Because of our typically denser bone density, greater muscle mass, and more pronounced curves, we often struggle to meet the requirements of the BMI (Bullshit Measuring Instrument). Further proving my point that our bodies are different.

    For instance, I am not fat by any means, but because of my curvy figure and the muscle that builds when I work out, I cannot make it out of the “overweight” zone. My doctor told me to never even look at that thing again.

  • Pilot

    True, people are not born obese, but obesity seems to follow black women like a black cloud. It is certainly associated with black women currently in our culture. Furthermore, I don’t know the answer to this question, but to what extent are black women’s boobs and asses enhanced by the higher fat levels in their bodies due to diet and activity levels?

    In terms of kinky hair, sure, some white women get perms sometimes, or wear a wig like that, but, be honest, it’s not a look embraced by white women in general. You’re trying to use the exception to prove a rule.

    I agree; black women’s bodies are different. But in noting that sisters have more of something considered desirable, it should also be noted that sisters have more of other things not considered desirable by the current culture.

    For the author to say, “white women want to look like black women”, the measured response is that some white women want some of their body parts to look like some parts of black women.

  • Clnmike

    I see what your saying but I can not see body parts as appropriations of our culture/identify, when not everyone in that cultures shares those parts, and under normal circumstances complaints have been made of objectification when focus has been given to them. This isn’t art or intellectual property that has been stolen and not given credit to, its a girl with a big butt who has done nothing but be her self. This article is all about validation or the lack there of.

  • SassyFrassy

    I am not trying to use an exception to prove a rule. I am using a trend to prove a trend. I don’t think a big booty on a white girl is a beauty rule, or standard, I think it’s a trend. Hopefully a fad.

    And boobs and booties are not enhanced due to lack of activity… They are about proportions. So if you see a chubby chick with very pronounced bosom, if she loses weight, she’ll still have proportionally large knockers. They will get smaller, but relative to the rest of her body, they will still be large.

    I am extremely active and a vegan and I still have an ample T&A set. They don’t go away with exercise. In fact, your ass will gain muscle and you’ll weigh even more, making the BMI even harder to attain.

  • SassyFrassy

    Again, I see your point. I mean, we as black folks are kinda responsible for fueling the current national obsession with the booty. I do feel like the popular obsession with white girls with booties (in the national discourse, not the black community) as an extreme form of exoticism, and eroticism with black women– but in white face this time. But I digress.

    Also, I agree that Adele’s album was not groundbreaking. Actually, it probably has more appropriation going on there than the matter at hand. The ground she was standing on has been broken, plowed, planted, all that shit.

  • bertamae

    The problem our generation has is that we call everything trivial. They are digging into your culture and what then happens is the Black artist who created the art form no longer has the opportunity to create and earn a living off of their heritage. Where are the black rock and roll artist?Where are the Black Jazz artist? They are trying this mess again by pumping up Adele, Amy Winehouse, and Joss Stone.

    We have to start viewing things as collective and connected. It is similar to having Street Smarts.

    Do not fall for the banana in the tailpipe!

  • http://www.crownofhisglory.com crownofhisglory

    Well said and great points. The stuff everybody knows but doens’t know what to do about in a mentally dwarfed self esteem deprived culture.

  • puhlease

    very disappointed w/this title and the article.. how about we celebrate black beauty on black women.. why we always gotta big somebody else up because they maybe shapely like us or have some features such as ours when black women are put down at every turn for our features?! NEXT!

  • damidwif

    “I think all men of all races like big tits and big asses on women (as long as the T&A are not huge and sloppy), and always have liked big tits and asses.”

    Not really. I would have to agree with others who have said this is faddish. I specifically remember a time when all white men talked about was breasts (and hips, perhaps) and asses were considered (by white men AND women) to be fat–undesirable.

    Besides what do you do with all that ass when you’re 60 years old and maybe 50 lbs heavier than when you were in your youth? LOL

    Lack of physical activity can seriously affect your T & A category…as can other things like having children. Some women go from no or small T & A to world records after hormonal contraception, pregnancy and/or birth. The fat content in some women’s diet is serious….and I think the stuff in milk and meats (hormones) is producing these younguns that look like stallions. For some women, the T & A and thighs nearly disappear upon dietary changes and exercise. Others lose their abs and fat on the upper arms. It just depends on your distribution and body composition as there are fat women who do not have large breasts and have a big flat ass.

  • edub

    Thank you. Anytime you have to put somebody else down to build yourself up, you LOOSE.

  • QON

    I dont personally think anyone is going crazy over Kim K. and her butt or Jolie and her lips. I remember distinctly when J.Lo mainstreamed herself and how her butt was ridiculed. It seems like every night time show host had something quite insulting to say about her behind.

  • http://www.realityunscripted.com RealityUnscripted.com

    It bothers me that women (black or white) want to be compared to Kim Kardashian. She’s beautiful and has a nice shape but she did porn for goodness sakes. If I have to leak a sex tape to be famous, I’ll just pass.

  • African Mami

    Simply put, this article was just BULLSHIT!

  • QON

    What exactly did Kim K. appropriate from black culture? She still acts like a white woman and dresses like other white peers in the media.

  • QON

    @Cantarah

    Great point. Women from Scandanavia and the Eastern European countries close to it are very tall.

  • QON

    @SassyFrassy

    “We are (FAR more than any other race) born with more pronounced sexual organs– larger breasts/booties/penises.”

    I dont think the butt or the breast are considered sexual organs. Not sure how it works with breast but I know that if you are from very hot parts of the world, as a woman you store fat on the bottom half which may enlarge the butt. However, just thinking of women like Alek Wek, black Africans do come in all shapes and sizes. I would say that the butt may be a West African regional thing not a pan African one.

  • Appletree

    This article reminds me of this one time I was at a party and I overheard these black guys say “I’m looking for the blackest looking girl in here that’s not black”. I wanted to slap them. These white girls with “black features” or with a tan are not to blame black men can be so ignorant these days. All you hear is white girl this and white girl that in songs. Kim K is gorgeous and if a guy thinks she’s attractive he has every right to think that way. However, the problem occurs when a guy thinks she’s attractive because she’s not black. That’s an on going problem.

  • K. Rock

    Love everything you wrote. So true.

  • Trini

    @TheBestAnonEver,Part2

    THANK YOU!!!

    Thats almost word for word what went thru my head reading this article and some of the comments. Your comment deserves a standing ovation!

  • gmarie

    You do know full hips, thighs, and backsides are not exclusive to black women right? I’ve seen so many Armenian, Persian, Middle Eastern, Indian, Polynesian, etc women built like this..people need to leave their block/city/state/country more often. I am all for uplifting and promoting elements of black beauty but no reason to put down other people in the mean time. We are more than our physical attributes

  • African Mami

    Hi-5 girl!!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

  • Trini

    @PervertedAlchemist

    “….a need to compete…against what, I don’t know.”

    I wonder the EXACT same thing every time someone hops up on the already well worn black women vs. white women soapbox.

  • Trini

    YUP! Pretty much!

  • Trini

    “You do know full hips, thighs, and backsides are not exclusive to black women right?”

    Obviously not! LOL!

    Didnt you know that God bestowed those gifts upon us and NOONE else! Hello!!!

  • Chica

    Haha, someone didn’t read the article. Way to go.

  • Whatever

    Wow, this was hilarious and well written. I totally agree with the writer!

  • Whatever

    @bertamae

    Excellent points. I call them “culture vultures”

  • huh?

    Your whole agrument is the point of this article my dear.

  • huh?

    good article! very well written.

  • Whatever

    ” when most of them would sell their right arm to live Danielle C. Belton’s life in the U.S., black and all, and not have to worry about their children going hungry”

    Actually they would rather starve than be black. Have you ever been to any of these countries? the racism makes jim Crow seem like a joke…

  • Whatever

    @pilot

    please look up the current trend of Japanese and Korean men and women perming their hair to get the “kinky afro look” Some have full round afros.

    Also, don’t be fooled by stats and studies where they focus on a group of 300 participants… Obesity is a problem for ALL races in America.

  • OaktownMiss

    I resent comments like these. They’re so pointless. Present a real argument for Chrissakes, or keep your negative opinions to yourselves. Retards.

  • iQgraphics

    @Kacey

    “I’ve always been puzzled by the adoration some black women have for Kim Kardashian.”

    I don’t know ANY black women who have any adoration for Kim K.
    Men like Kim K and white women want to be her from what I see.

    I don’t even know how many men actually like this girl. I know they’d love to smash genitals with her… but like her… meh

  • anon

    Ceding to white hegemony.

  • http://LesBoom.Tumblr.com LesBoom

    QON, I’m curious to know how a white woman acts vs how a black woman acts. Please enlighten me.

  • Whatever

    It’s funny how most people focused only on the kardashians with their comments and completely ignored the other points in the article. Yes, sometimes these folks are culture vultures. It happens in the entertainment industry all the time and covers everything from beauty standards to talent. We were once made fun of for these very same features in the mainstream and now white women are running full speed to their plastic surgeons to have the lips plumped and their asses injected, lifted and rounded. Let’s not forget the tanning salons either.This is so blatant that i can’t understand people’s comments about this being a trivial issue or why we shouldn’t focus on this. It’s taboo to speak on it yet we aren’t allowed to point fingers at people famous for their fake body parts being used to appeal to black people?

    On the topic of talent…A white mediocre singer with an all black band and black back up singers, singing songs written and produced by black people is seen as this generations “blue eyed soul”…. wtf? Yet those same albums aren’t “marketable enough” for a black artist… again wtf?

    Way too many WTF moments to be ignored.

  • QON

    @LesBoom

    Did you not see that YouTube video “Shit Black Girls Say” LOL. Im just kidding. If we concede that there is a black culture to appropriate than presumably there are behavioral norms and patterns, speech even- that can be adopted.

  • Val

    Yes, this is definitely an age old issue. I am glad you brought it up again, and I liked the spin you put on it. Don’t hate the players…hate the game.

  • CD86(CaliDreaming86)

    I guess all of the text was too much for ‘Puhlease’ to read…

  • SAA

    three thousand times yes!! I just do not understand it…at all. the way the females who frequent this site crucified ‘The Help’ you would’ve though the movie itself shot MLK.

    “I am not going to lie, I control my interactions with Af-Ams because after a while the constant whining just becomes too much to bear. Life is to short for all this. End of the year, still going about nonsense.”
    -couldn’t agree with this any more. I have one African-American friend, this is on purpose; we met in college and he is one of the most down to earth person I’ve ever met, wouldn’t trade his friendship for the world!

  • C

    Agreed with EVERYTHING in this comment. As a BW, I don’t even have the features typically associated with BW (at least not all of them) and I can still call BS on someone who praises WW for having features typically associated with BW (in other words, it’s not like I need praise or validation for myself). Again, it’s not about BW always wanting praise/validation from other races. It’s just the HYPOCRISY of some people who praise “black” features on white skin. And some people keep bringing up how other races have those same features. Obviously, some do. But let’s not act like they are not TYPICALLY associated with BW (and then ridiculed when found on BW). Why is it that some people don’t get this and then automatically chalk it up to poor self-esteem? Sorry ‘Whatever’, my rant is not directed toward you LOL.

  • http://fattiesoslim.tumblr.com FattieSoSlim

    I’m gonna have to agree with you. The author glided over the fact that the Kardashians aren’t fully white…

    But overall, I think the article was well written, and it had some good points.

  • Perverted Alchemist

    @ Trini- Sometimes I wonder if Black women know their power in their beauty. Instead of comparing themselves to other races, they should take the time to realize that the very same women they are being compared to are looking at them as style icons and the primary reason for those women to get fuller lips, hips and thighs- courtesy of plastic surgery, by the way.

    Personally, I think this comparing stats and competition mentality of Black women in their view of European standards is just plain infantile and pointless. I’m of the opinion that the only things that should be based around the concept of competition are sports and education- beauty shouldn’t be a part of that. I blame these Miss America pageants, LOL!!!!

  • stella

    the article didn’t put down any race of women, don’t know where you read such things.
    the point was that certain attributes are to different extents appreciated on women DEPENDING on their race; the author was arguing that these characteristics should be appealing either way- regardless of the color of their skin tone. (interesting how arguments are still made that remind me of MLK’s speech; we’ve come so far in areas, but still have ways to go in 2011.)

    that’s (and has been) the issue at hand

    you’re welcome. :)

  • http://clutch mikki

    YOU NAILED IT ! SO TRUE

  • bertamae

    Love Danielle, but she did co-sign the notion that the Kardashians are all white. They are of mixed race, we accept this with Halle Berry and Paula Patton, but glaze over with the Kardashians. It is the mother and her two youngest children who are white.
    I heard Khloe Kardashian complaining that she felt tortured growing up because she was lighter than her sisters. Does that sound like the whinings of a white girl?

    But I agree with the overall premise of the article. I myself have been writing about this and watching this game for the last decade (especially in regards to the music industry).

  • AustralianGirl

    Merry Solstice!

  • AustralianGirl

    Read the article, stupid.

  • Guilty

    @bertamae and @Whatever As far as I know Adele writes most of her songs as did the late Amy Winehouse. They also were professionally/classically trained musicians. Their admit that their inspiration comes from soul, gospel, and r’n’b, please don’t discredit them for years of hard work and dedication my point is… You don’t have to put down other people to make yourself feel celebrated. If there were copyright issues and some one black was being blatantly taken advantage of THEN I would have a problem.
    On the Kardashians. The fact that these women who aren’t even white are being called out for features beyond their control bothers me. Booty is not limited to those with melinin.( I don’t know if you watch gymastics, but most of those atheletes are certainly not lacking in that department)

  • chanela

    @lemonNlime… the difference is that you don’t see white men RUNNING and worshiping black women who have green eyes and straight hair.lol

  • chanela

    i’m waiting on the next caucasian celeb to have kinky afro textured hair to sashay into hollywood. the same thing will happen.

    “omg how to get your hair kinky like ____” “_____ has the most beautiful hair in the world! i’ve never seen anything like it” lol

  • ItsComedic…

    the big a$$ elephant in the room is that the black male is simply NOT attracted to the broad features that many black women possess.

    Case in point, your story is one of many that black women have mentioned when it comes to black men and their attraction to black women.

    Black males do not care if you like it or not, so why are some black women walking around on eggshells when it comes to them dating outside the race?

  • Whatever

    @guilty

    “The fact that these women who aren’t even white are being called out for features beyond their control bothers me.”

    See that’s the thing… Kim’s ass is not real. It’s been enhanced.

    The thing about Amy, Adele and Joss Stone is that it is such a novelty to have these white women singing soulful music that this is why they exist. A black woman walking into a record company with the same exact album would be told it isn’t marketable. Their efforts would end up on the sub soul segment instead of being pumped into heavy rotation.

  • http://theartofbeingsingle.tumblr.com Orisha613

    This article is PREACHING.

    It unveils the utter falsehoods in the idea of a post- racial society. That is just a guise for the dominant culture ( read : white people) to further appropriate and invisiblize the marginalized and oppressed communities they have continuously taken from.

    Anyone who disagrees with this articles, needs to go get themselves a education or shit a library card and buff up on Patricia Hill Collins and bell hooks.

    Say the word and speak the truth Ms. Belton !

  • African Mami

    @ OaktownMiss

    You have a VERY valid point. I was going to write a whole dissertation on this, whose premise was basically that the article was full of BS….as such, I did not see the point. However, now that I see that there are some like you who like to read dissertations, I will make it a point to be very intellectual.

  • watcher

    ditto…folks trynna read their palms with their hands 1/2 an inch from they face

  • CoCo

    Okay Danielle your words like “Racial Unicorn” & “Psychological Splenda”…..awesome descriptive satire. Unfortunately so true. Good Article

  • chanela

    @whatever. LOL i was totally just gonna say the same thing! for those who think her behind is real……http://gossip.whyfame.com/files/2010/05/kim_kardashian_butt.jpg

    COME ON NOW! whose butt gets THAT big without the rest of them getting big as well?

    thats what i think is so sad. how do soo many magazines constantly put her as #1 for “best butt” when its not even real? yet they would never in a million years put a black woman because we all KNOW black women would shit all over that list.lol

    currently white people are spazzing out over kylie minogue’s butt and kate middleton’s sister…. both who would totally get knocked out the water by meagan good,serena williams,angela basset,ect.

    if they’re gonna put fake booties like kim’s they might as well just put nicki minaj on their lists…… oh wait shes black. oops!

  • Sulaina

    Wait…but the Kardashians (Kim Khloe and Kourtney) are half Armenian. Even Khloe noticed that in her interview with US Magazine that she looked more American than her two older sisters. And according to the ethnic rainbow of Europe, Armenians aren’t high up in the hierarchy of Europe either (and some scholars even believe that they’re more Asian than European). Armenians had their own fair share of racial discrimination, genocide, and corrupt governments. So even in the scion of the Western world, certain Europeans have their own warped ish on race, culture, and color.

    HOWEVER I do agree that Kim’s nonblack girlness allows her to play to everyone’s sexual fantasy. Everyone loves the exotic. And exotic as being Mediterranean, olive skin (which still baffles me! Olives are freaking green, brown, and black!), plush lips, long dark hair, and thick curves. Not dark skin as if your ancestors were from the “dark” continent itself.

  • Bunny

    I haven’t read what everyone else has to say about this, but I for one appreciate this. Thanks!

  • sindy52

    this article is correct in its text as anything and anytime a white woman takes on one of our traits, she becomes popular,usually with no talent. However, some “male” will say that a black women is fat or unhealthy if she has a ample behind. Just asked the Senator who said the first lady has a fat backside and her fitness program for the nation was a joke. He and others like him have forgotten that less than 200 yrs ago, american black slave were breed to have larger thick legs and backsides to help their performance in the fields of the south. Yes we thick lips and breast too. And we are still Queens and should stand tall for ourselves. the “K” has nothing on Black women and when they are old and wrinkled, we’ll still look good.

  • Bunny

    LOL Ikr! They don’t even look like they were in the same room!

  • jamesfrmphilly

    if you breed a black women with any one else the baby will be black.
    that is because the black women has the dominant genes.
    we are the original people. nappy hair is our crown.

    black women are the queens and goddess of this earth.

    the ONLY issue is that so many don’t know their own royalty.

    http://www.egodesign.ca/_files/articles/blocks/6548_ale_wek_herb_ritts.jpg

  • Bunni

    Article is very much on point! Agree with every word.

  • Guilty

    Please don’t give me that Nicki Minaj has been a covergirl and she is celebrated the world over. That being said her music isn’t my cup of tea and neither is her look, but then again their isn’t one form of beauty. You act like people are just now focusing on large backsides it was Jennifer Lopez not too long ago and Destiny’s Child had a hit with Bootylicious( I’m joking, but hopefully you get the point). Celebrities are constantly getting called out for being too thin. I see alot of black women with the opposite problem. The point is just be healthy and love yourself and your look. I have no beef with Kim Kardashian. I have no way of Knowing she had surgery or not unless I’m her surgeon or someone close to her.
    Am I supposed to be mad that talented musicians are getting recognized? I don’t work in the music industry, but I don’t see enough young artists with a combination of a powerful voice and actual music knowledge or a sound that goes against the grain. I don’t listen to Joss Stone so this is moreso for Amy Winehouse and Adele. They are revisiting a retro sound which was VERY popular in its heyday anyway. I don’t know many black musicians who are using that sound now. Maybe Sharon Jones and The Dap Kings, who is AMAZING, but younger musicians who prefer to use actual instruments and more soulful sounding music aren’t plentiful on the airways. If you know of some current black artists like this feel free to prove me wrong.

  • Suburban Soulgirl

    The Kardashians ARE white. Last I checked, Armenia is in Europe….

  • Pilot

    @Whatever -

    Thanks for your advice; but I am generally not “fooled” by anything.

    On this particular subject (obesity among black women), I am also not fooled by people saying, “Don’t believe the overwhelming amount of data on this subject, it’s not enough for me, I’m going to minimize the importance of that data, and you should believe what I think should be true.”

    I know obesity is a problem for all races and both genders in the U.S.. I also know it’s much worse for black women than other races of women. There is now decades worth of quantatative data involving millions of data points supporting this fact.

    This is a very contentious subject for black women – I am fully aware of that. And I have no interest in getting into the flame-throwing “weight war” discussion which invariably follows any comment about obesity, with lots of women telling you they’re fit, not fat, that BMI means nothing when it comes to them, that black women are just “bigger” than other women, that what’s really important is your self-confidence, not your looks, and everything else that usally follows. I know black women get crazy when this is brought and want to prove to you that:

    Black women are no more obese than other women
    If black women are overweight, they’re not really overweight, because black women are supposed to weigh a lot more
    Even if black women are overweight, it’s okay, because what’s important is that you feel good about yourself, are confident and have inner beauty
    Anyone that says anything about black women being overweight/obese is just a jerk, is engaged in fat-shaming, and has no idea how fat people are discriminated against in the world and how women struggle with their weight.

    And a dozen more…

    So let’s not go there. It is a pointless, circular discussion and neither of us will change our position, right?

  • Clnmike

    Doesn’t matter what these girls are mixed with, they look white they most likely categorize themselves as white, the world see them as white but the most important part is that what ever there mixed with it aint black.

  • adriane

    Maybe it’s just me, but I do not think that the Kardashians look like Black women one bit. They are attractive and all, but they are no match for a beautiful Black woman. Having a large bum or big lips are not the only features that make some Black women gorgeous. What about our thick, big hair, natural kinky curls — when well maintained. Or, our cocoa to dark, rich skin tones? What about our flat pleasing noses and high foreheads? Or our delicate cheek bones and upturned shapely eyes and long necks? Our squared jaws (like the Williams sisters and Janet) and our warm brown eyes. These Kardashians (and Angelina) simply don’t have the same kind of beauty as Black women do. The are okay, and I do not want to take anything away from them, but I don’t see it. The Kardashians have none of the splendor that makes some Black women lovely. I think they look like very attractive white women, except for Khloe and the severe-featured mother, who do not look good at all, I’m afraid. Why do Black women care? I don’t understand the comparison here. I don’t understand where they look Black or African. I just do not see it.

  • http://listentoleon.net ListenToLeon

    I agree with almost everything in this entry. That said, I must give credit where it’s due; Kim K is just flat out good-looking, period. Yes, she’s an attention whore…and in some respects, you can call her an actual whore LOL, but she’s a pretty girl. I don’t think it makes one brainwashed or conditioned to feel that way. Besides, I’m not attracted to the rest of that family…although the Mom is a pimp!

  • Reason

    Huh? Are your glasses on? The Kardashians, especially Kim and Kourtney, do not look white. And the claims that they possible classify themselves as such seems dubious. And I don’t think white people automatically consider them white. The fact that 2 out of 3 of the girls mostly date black men gives insight onto how they must’ve been received in Southern California, where blonde hair, blue eyes and flat butts rule the land. I’m not a Kardashian apologist here but Kim especially fits into the Jennifer Lopez, Halle Berry, or Salma Hayek racially ambiguous category. There have been surveys that have found that the most popular commercial models among consumers are those that cannot be boxed. Nicole Sherzinger is another. It isn’t just white people that are expending ink and energy on her it’s black people too. Look at this blog, Bossip, etc.

  • Shana

    Im white with a big butt. I was just born that way. But I personally think black women are the most beautiful women in the world! Michelle Obama is beyond lovely, smart, beautiful, accomplished, & kind. I think it looks strange when white women get enhancements to appear more ‘ethnic’. Women should love themselves because we spend so much time putting each other down. Our race is a matter of genetics and beyond our control, but the way we treat each other is in our purview. Men may admire whatever or whomever cranks their engine, but I would hope that they can self-examine their motivations and decide if they like the Kardashians of the world because of the egregiously misguided notion of white superiority or if these women actually have substance and beauty that transcends their corporeal identity. That being said, white folks in general fail to appreciate the myriad contributions of black people and arrogantly ignore the trials and tribulations of black people living in a society that deems black as less than desirable and white as the epitome of right. The tides are still shifting. Not fast enough IMO. But every step forward is a worthy move toward loving ourselves and our neighbours.

  • Isis

    I love how folks say Armenians arent white. Meet one and say that to their face. Lmaooo a hot mess. Learn geography

  • The Comment

    I clicked on the link @James…is this a statue or graphic design. Very cool.

  • Cantarah

    Whatever-

    You’ve been to Georgia, Estonia, etc. and have been struck by how many of these starving children huffing out of paper bags in alleys would rather keep selling their bodies for money than be black?

    Wow.

    Lemme guess: you went to the likes of Romania on vacay right?

  • http://@clnmike Clnmike

    No, are your glasses on? The heel they do not look white skin straight hair, straight nose, European decent what else you want? The fact that they get this much attention from whites is proof they do not see them as white.

    ” The fact that 2 out of 3 of the girls mostly date black men gives insight onto how they must’ve been received in Southern California”

    Now that was just plain silly, so what’s the excuse for blondes and blue eyed women in southern Cali for dating black men.

    They are white as the untouched snow, but that doesn’t matter because there not black which makes them safe for consumption by whites.

  • The Comment

    “The only answer to that is that your seeking attention from whites and their media, nothing I can tell you there but good luck on the search for the Holy Grail of white validation.”

    LOL!!! Right. While the other ethnicities, who don’t give a damn what white folks think just as long as they give me a business loan, continue to expand their influence, increase their wealth and become highly educated.

  • Kimberly

    Shana you couldn’t have said it better. You are absolutley right we are attacking each other, because of what society portrays. In reality there are beautiful women in all races. I just wish peopel would stop waging this war, and just learn to value variety. I am a Black woman, and i just love your response.

  • jamesfrmphilly

    you’re not black are you?
    that is alex wek, an african model.
    black is indeed, beautiful.

    http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=alex+wek&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

  • usagi

    I’m going to have to play devil’s advocate, it’s a sign the racial beauty standards are improving. Fifty years ago, Kim would’ve had to change her name to something Anglo-Saxon( Charlie Sheen). I willing to bet that those Ayran folks would …still call Kim and family niggers. Janice Dickerson couldn’t find work in modeling because she was too ethnic.Also, Steven Tyler felt different from other whites because of his lips.

  • usagi

    Well, I’m black with a flat pancake butt. Me myslef don’t feel like Kim is stealing anything, When she gets her nose small and pointy, flatten her body, dying her hair red or coloring her lips plum, then I’ll say she’s stealing my thunder.Race is just just a social construct. A big one, though. I just don’t see big butts, curvy bodies, or big lips as black features.

  • BigRJ

    “black women are the queens and goddess of this earth”

    That sounds nice but serves no purpose in the real world. Being the illusion queens and goddess does nothing to help the millions of black women living in poverty.

  • elle

    danielle! dope article, so very very true. it’s undoubted that the beauty ideal is moving toward a racially ambiguous model like kim k, but black women are still are little too ‘ethnic’ even though african genes helped create many of these ideal features. i think it’s no coincidence that paris hilton was kim k’s predecessor. her family didn’t want to participate in the circus however, perhaps that’s why her star dimmed. thanks for writing this!

  • jamesfrmphilly

    if a person wakes up and becomes aware of their true self it has direct practical implications. our wealth is right there inside of us. poverty is the illusion.
    the ONLY problem that black people have is this nightmare that we our having.

    if a large percentage of us wakes up it will change the world.

    black people are oppressed because we allow ourselves to be. we spend time fighting one another. we stop fighting each other and focus our anger on the white man, things will change. peace, goddess.

  • Danni D

    Ummm, Armenia is definitely in the Middle East, south of Georgia and a little north of Iraq, sooo any Armenian who wants to consider themselves white, ie. European, would be going through some serious denial and self hate.

  • http://youreratchet.blogspot.com Young Heaux

    GREAT article.

  • herewego

    Black women have the same praise of white men when they sing “soulfully” or have the “swag” of a black man as the article mentions. More comments from atop of a soap box.

  • Reason

    You’re really suggesting that people are literally either black or white? I’m guessing you also have problems understanding that not all Asian people come from China, too? And guess who else are of European descent? Barack Obama, Halle Berry, Lenny Kravitz, Tia and Tamera Mowery, Drake, Alicia Keys, Paula Patton, Tracee Ellis Ross, Benjamin Jealous (the president of the NAACP), Melissa Harris-Perry (MSNBC contributor), Rashida Jones, etc. The world isn’t literally or figuratively black or white. Often times there are shades of gray. (I’d love to be in your head when you find out that being Hispanic and black aren’t mutually exclusive. “Blown,” right?)

    Kim Kardashian is as much Armenian as she is white. And I can’t tell how you’ve figured out who focuses on her more because it seems like the black media and black people are as obsessed with her as white people are. She has two pages right now on this site.

    As far as my pointing out her dating habits…she grew up in Beverly Hills, I highly doubt had any of the white guys in her neighborhood paid her any attention, black guys would’ve been in her purview. There is the philosphy that whitenesss thrives on narrowness whereas blackness has had to survive on openness and inclusion. Even redheads, or “gingers,” are marginalized in white culture.

  • Yadontsay

    I feel the same way when black women are praised for having so-called euro-features such as aquiline noses, skinny builds, lighter complexions and long straight hair. It goes both ways.

  • Honey

    Kim Kardashian looks like a middle eastern woman, and middle eastern women tend to have curvy figures, full lips etc etc but pale skin and sometimes straight hair. I remember the first time I saw her I thought she was Algerian/Libyan/Kuwait etc. As soon as I found out she was half Armenian, I understood why.
    When she went to Dubai recently, there was a bit of an uproar (due to the origins of her fame). Plus a lot of people from Dubai didn’t understand what the fuss was about, she just looks like a very pretty Middle Eastern woman. I understand that a lot of black culture is only popular or acceptable once white people start doing it. But black women aren’t the only women on earth with full lips, curvy figures etc.

  • Honey

    Can I also add that Middle Eastern people suffer from racism too. And a lot of women in the Middle East invest time and money into looking more European (with blonde hair, blue contact lenses). Little do they know that their traits are considered beautiful in Europe and America. My Arab friends from the UK go back to their home countries and sunbathe, their family members who live in their home countries tell them to stay out of the sun and “stay white”. They ask them why they keep their hair wavy or why they haven’t died it blonde yet lol.
    Women all over the world just need to learn to love their selves the way they are!

  • NY’s Finest

    Seriously these negative comments about Black Americans are really getting out of hand. Please judge people as individuals. I’m Black American and I don’t spend my days whining about big butt white women or anything else for that matter because I’m too busy doing something with myself.

  • oldowan

    Totally agree. Besides – what are “black features”? Sure, there may be features that people most commonly associate with black people, but we aren’t a monolithic group. There is so much diversity in black physical features. Africa is the most genetically diverse continent in the world, and you find so much physical diversity between various ethnic groups all over the continent. This kind of diversity is not found anywhere else in the world. People from Zimbabwe, for instance, look very very different from people from Nigeria, and even within various African nations, there are countless ethnic groups, who may physically differ from one another, and so forth and so on. I think this article is spot on, but I also think there should be another terminology that is used to describe what people call “black features”. I hope I make sense.

  • CocoPuffs

    The Kardashians aren’t really WHITE white, though……ok, they’re not black, but you can’t say they’re Angolo-Saxon with like Viking ancestors LOL….Kim, Kourtney & Rob definitely look like they should be in Aladdin

  • Clnmike

    No what I am suggesting is that girl is not black nor mixed with black which makes her just as white as African Americans are Africans. It is ridiculous that you would even try to categorize her with Barack Obama, Halle Berry, Lenny Kravitz, Tia and Tamera Mowery, Drake, Alicia Keys, Paula Patton, Tracee Ellis Ross, Benjamin Jealous (the president of the NAACP), Melissa Harris-Perry (MSNBC contributor), Rashida Jones, etc.” When there lineage is clearly pronounced. Just as her lineage is pronounced white, unless of course white to you is only those who are people of north western European descent, and i am sure the ones south and east of that will beg to argue with you including the black whom live there.

    This article is focused on what whites considered acceptable from people who look like them vs black people. Now since the Kardashians who are NOT BLACK, are accepted than the it’s pretty much a safe bet that whites view them as one them.

    “The world isn’t literally or figuratively black or white.””

    No shit Sherlock, yet it is amazing that the world is divided up that way with those blacks coming up from the bottom.

    ” (I’d love to be in your head when you find out that being Hispanic and black aren’t mutually exclusive. “Blown,” right?)””

    I already know that or did you think you were holding a mind blowing secret?

    As far as her your point about her dating habits you have none. What the hell kind of point is I highly doubt had any of the white guys in her neighborhood paid her any attention, black guys would’ve been in her purview.” Really you speak for white men now? They nominated you chief? And because she is seen with black men that must mean because she can not get a white man? Why because white men are the gold standard? This speaks more about and your mind than it does about them.

  • TC

    @Suburban Soulgirl

    Well, maybe you should “check” again. Armenia is an Asian country.

  • khadija

    i love your comment…everyone should read it, we have so many beautiful features and you list them so beautifully

  • Kim

    @Danni D,
    well you may want to talk to the Armenian people because they definitely see themselves as White.

  • vze4gvn5

    I think it time to read a little history or ourselves and not so much of others. Especially Dr. Joy Degruy’s book P.T.S.S.

    http://www.joydegruy.com/ptss/index.html

  • sli

    Thank you for this website! I love it.

  • Stoney

    Armenia is listed as a European country right along with Serbia, Kosovo and other countries around it. These people identify as White, not “middle eastern”.

    Kardashian knows that people don’t know much about Armenia and therefore she never calls herself white(race) she calls herself Armenia (ethnicity). This way she can maintain racial ambiguity. You’ll never hear her say she’s white or middleeastern, just Armenian…which happens to be white.

    What people don’t realize is that ‘ethnic’ doesn’t mean that you’re not white. Armenia is different from Serbia which is different from France which is different from Germany/Spain in terms of ‘ethnicity’ but guess what? They’re all white people. Blonde hair thin lips and blue eyes are not their only traits people. They’re just as diverse as we are.

  • Chnyere

    yea, Pilot many black women are obese but u are commenting on the wrong article. Next time read the whole thing and then try to process it, thanks.
    smh

  • http://none Louise

    So your point is what, exactly? Listen, if you want to declare yourself some kind of expert on the “obesity” of black women then you are free to do so. Just say everything that you wish to say, whatever it may be, only please state your point. I am one of those “obese” black women that seems to be on your mind and I for one am fascinated by people like you. You took the time to write all that and then declared that it was all basically a waste of time. So why did you even bother?

    Believe me, your dislike of “obese” women, particularly black ones, comes through LOUD and VERY CLEAR. So by all means, please tell us what we are allowed to think and how to live our lives, and how we should react to people such as yourself, because clearly, we are not as smart as you.

  • Chnyere

    “If black beauty is reduced to butts and lips, we we will eventually become obsolete”

    It already is!! (at the most that is)

  • Chnyere

    “You sound like a massive hater and come off as a writer who is extremely jealous”

    she could off easily come off sounding like that but she didn’t, the article was very well written I was very surprised that the ‘hate’ was not present. You need to check yourself, you just want her (and the rest of us) to sound like hater.

  • Chnyere

    This is very true Lemon, but there is a big difference btw the two. In the black community so many strive for it and those with those white features are seen as superior to other; it has created a lot of self esteem issues among the community. While in the white community black features are just seen as an added plus, it’s like “we can have some of yalls features too, so no matter what we will always look better than u.”

  • Reason

    Right. Nice try at burying the lead there. But from all of your counterpointing there, you still have twice chosen (or are unable to) not to tackle my observation that Kim Kardashian’s “success” is as much a result of black people as white people. But what do I know. I only speak for white men whereas you are the white people whisperer, capable of channeling the emotions of all white people, knowing what they find acceptable and unacceptable. Yet, I’m sure if an index, survey, word cloud was created to meausure who the Kardashians are more popular with I’d bet you 10K that black people would best white people. I’d bet that the Kardashians rank on black households top 20 list.

  • http://msn.com, aware

    I must say snobish no, I think it is still the case of Jealous, of white beauty,

  • http://msn.com, aware of

    I must say snobish no, I think it is still the case of Jealous, of white beauty, You will never make a name for yourself, as one can see right through you.

  • http://msn.com, aware of

    face it most black women look like drag queens

  • Kitty

    you wouldn’t say that to a group of black women if this wasn’t the internet. lame

  • NY’s Finest

    And what do you look like?

  • Clnmike

    ” my observation that Kim Kardashian’s “success” is as much a result of black people as white people.”

    That was not the point of the article which was what I was addressing your attempt to darken up the girls and add on how there are some black people who support them is irrelevant to the article and my comment and an attempt to distract from the issue. The issue from the article was if features that are supposedly black in origin are found to be acceptable on whites while being looked down upon on blacks. My point was it didn’t matter what there ethnic make up was because it did not include black and there ancestry is clearly white.

    “But what do I know. I only speak for white men whereas you are the white people whisperer, capable of channeling the emotions of all white people, knowing what they find acceptable and unacceptable.”

    Well if you want to go there than yeah you dont know much, while my assertions are based on history as to what white society finds acceptable (which would be those they find closest to them in appearance including those on that list of yours) you attempt to explain why this particular girl is dating black as a result of white men not wanting her. That is because you are an expert on white people so much so that you can sit here and say that white men in Southern California are prone to date almost exclusively ” blonde hair, blue eyes and flat butts” (because those are “real white” people), despite the fact that there history shows that not to be the case, people only come in blue eyes and blonde hair.

    “I’m sure if an index, survey, word cloud was created to meausure who the Kardashians are more popular with I’d bet you 10K that black people would best white people. I’d bet that the Kardashians rank on black households top 20 list.”

    Yeah until you actually do the research I’m going to go ahead and call BS on you.

  • Clnmike

    Troll?

  • RedLine Genius

    Chanela said:i’m waiting on the next caucasian celeb to have kinky afro textured hair to sashay into hollywood.

    Never will or would happen. The Afro being the most prized relic of black hair styles has only been trotted out by white celebs on Halloween or a Madonna video. If Lady Gaga can be so daring to wear a meat dress but not “kinky afro textured hair” by now, you know this will never happen.

    All women prize their hair above all else. We may not take good care of it or do right by it 100% of the time, but we ALL know that. See “School Daze” the Madame Re-Re’s scene for more information. ;)

  • chinaza

    A-men.

  • chinaza

    This article is so true.

  • Truthy

    Merry Christmas James from Philly! May the grudge you carry lighten in the new year! May you get a new drum of oppression to bang in the new year!

  • damidwif

    “I’m sure if an index, survey, word cloud was created to meausure who the Kardashians are more popular with I’d bet you 10K that black people would best white people. I’d bet that the Kardashians rank on black households top 20 list.”

    i agree with this. possibly lending credence to this is the study that came out this year which said that black people comsumed more tv than everyone else. so, the media knows this and they want ratings.

  • JaeBee

    I’ve had friends from places like Iran, Turkey, and Jordan who consider themselves “white”. When they say something like that I usually suggest that they go attend a meeting of a white supremacist group and see how many group members will agree with them on their perception.

  • Eugene Russell Key

    Just ran across this article and have always noticed the central trheme the article is about … Elvis v Liitle Richard as king of rock and roll .. But , after ready the post / comments it came to me the images and lives of ck]larence thomas , michael steel , herman cain and the other uncle toms .. Certain white folk flock to them also … I wonder how that could be explained beyond the ‘ they agree with us ‘ mentality …

  • Eugene Russell Key

    Me correcting my own typos …
    Just ran across this article and have always noticed the central theme the article is about … Elvis v Liitle Richard as king of rock and roll .. But , after reading the post / comments the lives of clarence thomas , michael steele , herman cain and the other uncle toms came to mind .. Certain white folk flock to them also … I wonder how that could be explained beyond the ‘ they agree with us ‘ mentality …

  • http://www.xhibitp.com Patrice

    *drops the mic*

    Danielle Belton hit the nail on the head so firmly in this article. I’m not often prompted to leave a comment on articles, but this one deserves every moment of appreciation it receives. Blog posts like these encourage me and remind me that I’m not crazy when “theories” like these take precedence in my mind.

    I’ve had this same “nature vs culture/society” argument with countless folks of all colors and Ive always found myself in the minority when defending this same argument. Of course not many people studied race discourse–nonetheless majored in Black Studies–so it’s understandable, yet definitely unacceptable. It’s pretty damn frustrating.

    But here are some heartening words from Erykah Badu to serve as a sort of dessert to Belton’s refreshing outlook:

    “If you want to get into the revolution, you’re going to be broke and you’re going to be beat, spiritually and physically at some point and it’s just the way it is.”-Erykah Badu

  • rob

    Lulz. You aren’t bitter or anything are you? Too bad that any woman would bother to waste time and energy reading this garbage as I have. The hypocrisy of this article is hilarious. Too bad it may actually validate a young black woman’s inclination to carry a negative and combative attitude towards the world. That’s very productive and attractive! Not.
    Then you wonder why people are turned off by you.
    As a latino male with ex-black girlfriends, i can assure you black women can be and are SEXY to outsiders. But I can also assure you that “sexy” stems from a state of mind just as much, if not more, as it may from visual appeal.
    Id be a lying fool if i denied that racism was still alive and kicking but this article is complete BS. A pathetic piece of thinly veiled reverse-racism if i ever saw it. Funny though. I love how you take ownership of Rock n Roll and R&B, just because you happen to be black, as opposed to being a musician who actually loves and plays the genre.

  • sfdf

    “Sub-Sahara Africa (and it was never colonized by Europeans)”

    What?

    Belgian Congo?

    French in Senegal.

    Germany in Namibia.

    South Africa????

    And many others.

    Get a clue.

  • African Mami

    PREACH!

  • Madame Arnoux

    Can you please explain to me what reverse racism is? Racism, in order for it to work, requires power. Blacks, Latinos, and other minorities lack that power in America. If you mean that the author of the article sounds prejudiced against whites, then I understand what you are saying even though you’re wrong.

  • Ravi

    @IQ

    I know plenty of black women that watch the Kardashians on television obsessively. I don’t know any black men that do. She gets no more attention than any other big booty woman in Hollywood from black men from what I’ve seen. I don’t think the fame of the Kardashians lies purely in the size of Kim’s butt. Considering much of their following comes from women and considering the popularity of her entirely unattractive sister. This girl looks like an albino Shrek with a bad wig. I would have said Fiona but she looks a bit more manly than a female ogre.

  • Roman J.

    Rob, as a Latino male, maybe you don’t understand the legacy of black slavery and white domination in this country. Or maybe you believe that because you have dated a black woman or two, you know everything about black women/black folks.

    You should also read up on the genres of R&B (Rhythm and Blues) and Rock ‘n’ Roll. Blues is a distinctly African-American invention of the American music scene that dates back to the early 20th century. So, yes, we black folks do lay claim to R&B because it came from our pain, our musicianship or culture just like salsa, merengue and reggaeton come out of the Latin culture. It is never a problem for a culture to lay claim to their heritage until African Americans attempt to do as much.

    Before you respond to an article that features information that is unfamiliar to you, at least make the effort to understand, research, hell, Google the information being presented before you trivialize its implications. You are not an expert on what hurts or even gives joy to black women just because you dated one. I don’t claim to understand much of who Latinos are because I enjoy their food. You know what happens when you “assume” or maybe you don’t, but my suggestion is that you get a clue…

  • ruggie

    I think the “if” was meant to carry through to the parentheses.
    “If you never left Sub-Sahara Africa (and [if] it was never colonized by Europeans).”

    Just my grammatical 2 cents.

  • Derick

    LMAO MAN!!!! WHITE women are all ugly looking like CHER and Chastity Bono meeh!! Sandusky lol

  • http://Gingerfires.wordpress.com Dan the Redhead

    I understand this bloggers frustrations, but we ALL have a responsibility for how we chose to see this world and what we take and reliquish.
    You know how depressing it is, when speaking to young African-Americans in NYC, and they tell me they only listen to “black music”? And I’m like, “what is THAT?” I’ll say “Babyface, Teddy Riley” and they say “oh, classics?” 1992 is classic??? Kids don’t know who Pearl Bailey is, Dorothy Dandridge, Nina Simone, Charlie Pride… They have no clue Etta James and Ray Charles have been considered country… You know, I do feel as if there is this insane burden certain African American put on themselves thinking, if you speaking another language, listen to Opera or Latin music, or watch a Korean film, that somehow, SOMEHOW this means you’re losing touch with black people and selling out. It’s sad.
    I have never looked at a Kardashian as a gateway to white women. That Ray J sex tape was an obvious ploy by both hookers (ray j is a hooker) to jump start their careers. The lives of sports stars is riddled with woman with fake hair, fake nails, fake tits, fake everything… To me, these are never women to look up to. If that’s what these athletes hook up with, who cares.
    A real man wants a real woman, and a real woman with self-esteem could care less about a man who just wants a hooker.
    Comparing yourself to a Kardashian is a waste of time.
    Thinking black people are only god for R&B is sad.
    You know, Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings played in Brooklyn this summer and the white people, EVEN ASIAN PEOPLE outnumbered the African Americans I saw. Sharon Jones is old school Rhythm and Blues. She practically a female James Brown. I was startled that the audience looked more like Seattle than New York.
    Sometimes you have to look for your heros rather than expect some corporation to hand it to you.
    There is black pride everywhere… Try supporting it.

  • Jess

    face it people, kim kardashian got successful because black men helped white media puppetmasters to make her so. karrine steffans a.k.a. “superhead” did as many whorish things as the kardashians, including having a sex tape, and is also a very pretty woman, but because she is black her sexual appetite was considered nasty and unclean, while kardashians was considered beautiful, good, and marriage-worthy. steffans is a beautiful woman too, more so than kardashian, and is just as lost and misguided as kardashian, but simply because she’s a black woman who did the same thing, she doesn’t get any excuses, or fast track to wealth and celebrity. steffans gets whore-status, while kardashian gets a multi-million dollar wedding on national tv. go figure.

    face it, black people, particularly the men,are as racist as whites when it comes to being against black women, and a black womans mistakes are considered horrible while a non-black woman’s is forgivable and even considered admirable by some. very sad reality, but it is what it is. black men of some wealth continue to allow leaches to suck (literally) any wealth out of the black communities, and do their best to avoid making black families like the plague. white people know this, and encourage this because they know they will always be in control, and america will never see a black power base. it is what it is, and many black men joined their side a while ago. the old, generation of black men left the building years ago. god bless obama – whose black is kenyan and not black american by the way, which may tell you something.

  • Nicole

    This article is about a larger issue than the Kardashians, and Danielle touches on it – it’s that anything seen as “black” is looked down upon in our culture, until white people decide to claim it as their own and label it “cool.” Still. In this day and age. This happens constantly – I see signs of it all of the time and it frustrates me to no end. The Kardashian hoopla is just a symptom of it. Thank you for this article.

  • http://Gingerfires.wordpress.com Dan from NYC

    I’d like to also cite that the musical categories this author cites are exclusive to the American Music industry.

    Other countries do not always profess the categories that the American music industry has.

    A African-American artist I know of came to the Sony music label in Asia professing his music was about “ghetto life”. The Filipino marketing manager said, “sir, we don’t have this concept of ghetto life. If you are talking about poverty, our country is full of it and we like music that doesn’t remind of how we have so little.” So instead, they all decided his music was now ‘reggeton’.
    If Sony wanted to market more Asian-American artists, they could.
    If BET wanted to do more original programing, like more sitcoms, sci-fi, dramas, documentaries, they SHOULD!
    If country music wasn’t so racist, they’d produce more black artists, and if black producers weren’t so lazy on just chasing after HipHop they’d pursue black country artists!

    Prejudice is on all sides on this issue.

    I’ll just repeat over and over again, if you are wrapping up your self-esteem on Kim Kardashian, you’re just a damn and utter fool and basically saying all the powerful black women before you never mattered.

    Sad. Sad. Twisted and sad.

    Buy a plane ticket. See the world. THEN, find your voice… Cause too many who responded to this blog are LOST!!!

  • Ravi

    how does that apply to Kim Kardashian when the thing that was claimed was a characteristic that is not looked down upon by black people? Last time I checked, having a big round butt with a small waist was a good thing in our culture. the people that tend to look down at a big butt are usually white

  • http://Gingerfires.wordpress.com Dan from NYC

    @Nicole

    How dare you think THIS is what WHITE people think.

    That statement is just as stupid as THIS is what BLACK people think.

    You know, a few things have to happen here.

    #1 people have got to get with the program that we are an integrating society. We are becoming less and less bound by geography with help of the Internet. Therefore, remarks like BLACK PEOPLE really are turning into relic phrasing. It’s like saying you’re helping people in AFRICA… Where in Africa? Morroco? Egypt? Nigeria? South Africa? This broad brush on saying BLACK PEOPLE or WHITE PEOPLE really is racist, bigoted, narrow minded and stiffiled. I’m sure Jamacians and Haitians don’t agree on everything… Must we continue this ignorance?
    # people have got to stop expecting their culture to the sum of their identity. I’m sorry, if you live in the United States, you’re main culture is CONSUMERISM. This is why you’re OBSESSED with Kim Kardashian. Is Kim a historian? No. She an artist? No. Political leader? No. Is she a law maker? No. What is she? A publicity hound. So who is her audience? Anyone who watches her or talks about her. Is she white culture? No. Black culture? No. She’s just an aspect of consumerism. She comes cheap. You don’t have to pay a ton of writers, actors, script supervisors, basically people creating… All you have to pay is her and her entourage to act stupid. That’s it. She is a biproduct of Americans obsession with consumption.

    So if you are placing the value of black women on the market with cheap narcissist who likes to hang out with other narcissists (ie athletes with multimillion dollar paychecks and rich girls from Beverly Hills), then you are telling ME that you have or had no culture or self-esteem to begin with!!!

    Try trying to date a guy who reads a damn book, and just then maybe you’ll find yourself a man.

    And, stop basing your self-esteem on what YOU think WHITE, LATIN, BLACK, ASIAN or INDIAN men want to f*ck… Unless you want to be in porn.

    (how dare this article pretend to be about black female sisterhood when really its about ruining women’s self-esteem… Horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE).

  • rob

    Madame; I refuse to believe you are actually dumb enough to fail to understand the concept of reverse racism, but since you asked politely, i will oblige. Specifically, I was referring to the author’s assertion that big bootys and full lips are features that somehow belong to blacks. That they shouldn’t be liked on other women of other races but only on black women. She also insinuates a racist notion that white entertainers somehow do not merit appreciation and respect for their work SIMPLY because they are white and partake in a “black” genre. Did you ever stop to consider that mainstream America loves Adele et al because they are actually talented and produce “good” music? You think there is a chance that people of all colors also love black artists such as MJ, Janet, Mary J.B., etc because they also produce “good” music (and NOT just because the are black)?
    Lastly, you can choose to accept the misguided idea that you are “powerless”, that is your choice. I would hope that the vast majority of my black brothers and sisters instead choose to hope, dream, and believe that they can accomplish great things in their lives in spite of the odds stacked against them (yes i do acknowledge many barriers stemming from racism). I would love to hear you explain how people such as Oprah, Magic Johnson, Quincy Jones, and our president are “powerless” BTW.

    Roman J.; I can understand that some people are going to take offense and read my words through the haze of emotion but please go back and read my words. I never claimed to understand the legacy of slavery in this country. Nor did I claim to know everything about blacks or what hurts them. Nice straw man argument though. I merely said that I have been and continue to be attracted to black women (Im attracted to all women) but that it simply is UNattractive for anybody to go through life with a chip on their shoulder and a dumb ass assumption that the whole world is racist against them. That was all. Last but not least that racism, from ANYBODY, is BS. It’s BS from whites, latinos, asians and YES even from blacks.
    You can claim “ownership” of R&B, etc. all you want. Im merely saying that to marginalize people because they are white is, by definition, bigotry. It is also unfair and inherently idiotic to ASSUME that mainstream America likes certain artists just because they put a white face on “black” music as the author did. Last time I checked, artists such as Tupac, Beyonce, and Maxwell get plenty of love from non-blacks but i must be smoking goood s%#t because according to the author that is not the case. You wanna criticize the media monster and its darlings, go ahead…no argument there. ut this author is racist pure and simple.
    I guess if you own all things black then I suppose you would laugh at and discredit me because I would dare say that I respect, admire, and LOVE people such as Russell Simmons, Oprah and Barack Obama. They inspire me but maybe I am not entitled to that because I’m not black right?

  • Ravi

    @Rob, I don’t think you understand Madame’s message. I don’t think she was saying that she doesn’t understand the concept, I think she is saying it doesn’t exist. That there is racism, no “reverse racism.” She seems to be operating off of a sociological definition of racism where there is a necessary element of power embedded in it. Unlike bigotry, racism (and other isms) is rooted in a group on the business end of a power dynamic. The parallel would be that in most places in society, sexism is directed towards women, except in a realm like nursing where women hold much of the institutional power. In most realms of Western society, white people hold much of the institutional power, so racism is directed at those that are not in power. This is different than bigotry (hatred or malice based on difference) and racial prejudice (making judgments or generalizations based on perceived racial differences), which can be directed at anyone by anyone. Given that most people use the terms interchangeably, this becomes just a semantic argument. But I digress: the question still remains even under your working definition of racism. How can one reverse racism? Wouldn’t it be just racism regardless of the ethnicity of the actors?

  • Ravi

    not sure why you used superhead for your analogy because they don’t seem very comparable. superhead is famous for giving head in exchange for money and gifts and writing a tell all book that sensationalizes her exploits. She didn’t make a sex tape with her boyfriend, she made porn movies with porn stars. There is a bit of a difference. Seems someone like Nicole Narain would be more comparable.

    Moreover, who considers Kim Kardashian good and wife material? She is a joke like most reality tv stars. She is about as admired as the cast of Jersey Shore. People don’t take her seriously.

  • Madame Arnoux

    Rob:

    Methinks you lack the reading comprehension skills to understand what I was getting at in my first comment. Ravi, however, explains below so there is no reason for me to rehash. Please read his/her comment and learn.

    As for the rest of your comment, or at least the part that kind of made sense, the author is not who your gripe is with. “Black” features (broad nose, full lips, kinky hair, big booties, etc.) have historically been associated with ugliness. Throughout American history, these traits have been denigrated by whites and used in various ways to prove black inferiority. That whites now celebrate these traits is ironic. Similarly, you can blame white rock critics and record industry executives for how music marketed and who it is marketed to.

    It seems you have little understanding of American history, especially African American history. You should probably read up on it. It’ll impress your next black girlfriend.

  • Socially Maladjusted

    Well, this is another example of how a serious problem for blacks – the theft of our creative output, is conflated with the non-issue of ‘the “theft” of the rewards that should go to black women for being curvy’. (uh?)

    Absolutely pathetic.

    (side note: if it’s true that black women get no love, it could be because tthose they allow to speak to their issues are complete fools)

    First of all black; women don’t own the copyright to the curvy female form. Most women are curvy, except perhaps in societies where food is scarce. Furthemore appreciation of the curvy woman is not new to whites, the term Rubenesque comes from the painter Paul Rubens who painted curvy women in 16th century Germany.

    So get over yourselves.

    How about you do some real journalism and give people quality information that might enhance their lives rather than give them more reasons to feel s hitty about themselves.

  • Socially Maladjusted

    Oh and another thing, it was probably black men who re-popularised the curvy female form, despite the fact that our preference for the fuller figured woman was mocked, as being due to our inability to afford more slender more “high maintenance” women.

    Both white men and many a black woman was in on that one. Please remember the old black man/fat white woman cliche.

    Well whose laughing now eh?

    And who the hell is any black woman to get mad about somebody “emulating” “her” looks, anyway?

    Pure foolishness.

  • Kitty

    awww i love those lil trolls so cute^-^

  • Kitty

    I thought this is an interesting read but also very one angled at that, I felt a lot of negative vibez, but i can understand why. When you read about Sarah Bartmann aka Saartje Baartman.. to now the likes of kim kardashian. Its like from one extreme to the next.
    At the end of the day the body is a mere vessel of the true self within.
    Personally wouldn’t waste my time being mad over this. life is too short

  • Ravi

    most women are curvy? not sure about that one. Most women on earth are Asian and while I’ve never been to China, I’m willing to bet that most Asian women are not curvy.

    Also, rubenesque wouldn’t necessarily be considered curvy so much as chubby or fat. Usually, not always, when people are talking about curvy they are referring to a low waist-to-hip ratio or coke bottle shape. Rubensque women are shaped a bit more like a two liter or the stay puff marshmallow man as opposed to a coke bottle. When I think curvy, I think Serena Williams or Bria Myles. When I look at Reubens’s The Three Graces, I think Queen Latifah or Jill Scott before the weight loss.

  • Alexandra

    When you’re blinded with hating someones skin color how else are going to find anything else about them appealing.

    I don’t have much to say other than I can agree that sometimes, certain features on Black women are considered attractive in comparison to White women. But the tone of this article is wrong; no one has a monopoly on any body type/part/talent and its silly to see some Black women constantly compare themselves to White women, yet alone Kim K. I just can’t see how celebrating Kim K, is celebrating Black beauty.

    Black beauty is not even defined. Black women can come in all shades, types, hair textures, yet we all have the same body type? A lot of Black women aren’t curvy or have big butts. I don’t get how some people accept some stereotypes and dismiss others? And how is it that so many people know that Whites or other races never found curvy woman to be attractive? If they find curvy non-Black women attractive, what’s the obvious answer here? This doesn’t need to be over-analyzed. It’s been noted that skin color is a factor in what some people find attractive.

  • Eric

    Another woman who probably majored in a liberal arts field following the current zeitgeist of throwing the “racism!” label at everything until it sticks. What a bunch of drivel. Want to tell us all how the ancient Egyptians were really black?

  • rob

    Lulz galore. I love how you guys want to change the subject to semantics (thank you Ravi for at least acknowledging that) and completely ignore what im calling BS on. Oh? You’ve never heard of the term reverse-racism? ok. Sure. And no minorities hold any power so they’re incapable of being racist? Oh. Good to know. Glad to know the packs of black males that used to beat the crap out of me in JH school were powerless. Even though it was declared to me it was the pretty black girl with me that brought their attention, it couldn’t have been racism. Because you say so…
    I know you want to believe i lack education because we disagree but I’ve had my fair share, thanks. I also continue to be a student of life but unlike the majority of women who buy into this shi##y article, i don’t suffer from low self-esteem and self-doubt. I don’t seek validation from the media, just my real friends and family. I don’t feel a need to try to “impress” my black girlfriend or any girlfriend. I just want to make my momma proud. History is important and full of lessons but life is too precious for me to wallow in the past. No time for moping around…Upward and forward!!

    No life is not fair but I sincerely hope you remember to smile my beautiful black sisters. That is all.
    ~peace

  • Ravi

    @Rob, no problem. I think most of the arguments that occur on here have semantic entanglements at their core. Not to say there aren’t legitimate points of contention here, but they seem to get lost in lack of common definitions. As for getting jumped by groups of black males, it could very well have been racism. Remember my analogy with sexism and nursing. Women hold very real power in that particular institution. In many schools you often have an analogous situation. my junior high school was such a school. it was about evenly split black and white, but all of the power lied with the black students. the vast majority of the popular, cool, athletic, and well regarded people in the school were black. white students were marginalized and often discriminated against and bullied. Ironically, I was was bullied for acting too much like the white kids despite the fact that i am black. In such a situation you could make an argument for the typical power dynamic being reversed as in nursing. It must be put in proper perspective considering many of those same white kids that were bullied are now highly successful and relatively well to do.

    also, bigotry might be a more apt term for what you experienced. racism usually isn’t as malicious as it is thought to be. such malice that you were confronted with sounds more like bigotry.

  • Socially Maladjusted

    Ravi

    I think we’re splitting hairs a lil bit here – don’t you?

    Sheesh!

  • Socially Maladjusted

    Another woman who probably majored in a liberal arts field following the current zeitgeist of throwing the “racism!” label at everything until it sticks. What a bunch of drivel. Want to tell us all how the ancient Egyptians were really black

    1) Absolutely nothing wrong with the liberal arts, in the RIGHT hands, they have the power to transform a rotten society such as this one.

    In the wrong hands, a liberal art degree is just a piece of paper that says ‘I spent some time in a class room’.

    2) I agree that the racism complaint this underlying this article is frivolous, but I suspect that you’re at the other end of the spectrum and believe racism died with the election of Barack Obama.

    You’re both wrong.

    3) Nooo – the ancient Egyptians (Africans from 5-10 thousand years ago) must have been white since Egypt in is Europe, The same Europe which had developed no written language and were enlsaved and regarded as barbarians by the Romans about 2000 years after Egypt fell,

  • Socially Maladjusted

    You would have us believe that illiterate and enslaved whites built the pyramids and Egyptians civilization 5000 years before they were conquered by the Romans.

    Why then, is there not a single pyramid like construction ANYWHERE in Europe?

    And while you’re busy not being able to answer to that – take this home. .

    The fallacies you propogate are a SERIOUS example of how the creative
    output of blacks is stolen by whites.

    Thanks for submitting it.

  • Truthy

    Hey Socially-
    What have you done lately? Detroit is about to collapse. Haiti is a mess. So, tell me again, what have you done after 0 BC?

  • http://hypestyleshomebase.blogspot.com Hypestyle

    Intriguing. As of 2011/12, with all the reality shows featuring black women, black beauty magazines, black culture/lifestyle mags, black cheesecake mags (For Black Men, Show, King, etc.), various black female superstars in music, music videos featuring black girls, mainstream movie actresses, etc., just where all exactly are the scenarios where modern black women are beat down and told they have to kiss the ring of the kardashians? So People magazine does their “top 10 gorgeous”. So what? That’s why there’s Ebony magazine to do their Top 10. And Essence can do their Top 10. White singers doing R&B is old news. The hyper-fascination with it by some still sucks, but it’s old news. At least now their black/latin counterparts can be on the radio just as much if not more, and win awards, to boot. We can legitimately point out the hypocricy in the fashion industry, but hey– in the Internet era you don’t have to search far to find stories on some black folk (women) who get caught up trying to puff up their curves, sometimes going to just as dangerous lengths as the non-black chicks. Should Zoe Saldana get bashed for not being as ‘shapely’ as Jennifer Hudson? Should Mariah Carey get thrown under a bus because part of her success was (unintentionally) in getting her pass on? Would it be great if Elle, Vogue, Vanity Fair, etc., had more women of color (and varied sizes) in their pages? hell, yes. But at this stage of the game, we should know that the gatekeepers of those publications are going to only go so far in multiculturalism. That’s where black media ‘should’ be able to step in with some alternative content. White bread is fine for whoever loves it– i can’t stand it– I like wheat and pumpernickel. But I can’t go on and on about white bread still being sold, since I have access to what I like.

  • Jess

    Truthy, please shutup. You are such an idi-ot with your post racial drivel

  • Sarah

    Rob, you are completely right in my opinion. Though the author makes some very good points, this article came off completely racist and exemplifies the idea that African Americans are some of the most racist people in America. This article oozes with negativity and race-oriented explanations to everything. As if liking Kim Kardashian is tied to rejecting black women.

    America has changed. “Black stuff” like R&B or the mannerisms of Justin Timberlake (which the author attributed to black people) no longer belongs exclusively to the black community. We are a multi-racial country, and when anything gets popular it is driven by a majority of the population liking it. Hiphop or R&B became mainstream because whites, hispanics, and asians liked it too, sending those artists to the top of the charts.

    I’m sorry the author sees the world the way she does. I find many of the connections she’s made ridiculous. I know few white people who think of everything they like in terms of what races are associated with it.

  • Socially Maladjusted

    truthy

    Aargh!! Oh no ya got me – we aint did nuttin since way back da day BEECEE. Oh lawdy.

    kiss teet

    Well no need to go back to Ancient Egpyt to date the exact time when priorities on the continent of Africa changed from development to -

    SURVIVAL

    That change occurred post-COLUMBUS 14 AD and survival has, as you imply, been our main priority since then.

    I have a more interesting question for you -

    what have whites done -

    to have such bloody hands?

    The White foot print has left a terrible mark everywhere it stepped, starting in Europe. I can think of at least TWO TIMES, not too long ago, when whites DETROITIZED all of EUROPE. They detroitized Africa and its peoples for 400 years, many parts of Asia for 200, and are currently Detroitizing Iraq, Afganistan, and looking to start on Iran.

    What can we say about whites detroitization of North and South America, itself?

    Detroit is made in America by whites, not in Africa by Africans.

    Now whites are about to DETROITIZE the entire world all at once, including – YOUR LITTLE WORLD, if the world doesn’t stop them.

    In the wake of the world’s detroitization by whites, the SURVIVORS will be asking whites –

    WHAT HAVE YOU DONE . . .

    Google up some game and make me work for it next time.

  • Socially Maladjusted

    The absolute gall – a bunch of savages who have bludgeoned destroyed desecrated enslaved and looted their way around the entire world talking about Detroit and Haiti neither of which would exist were it not for whites and their savagery against the indigenous peoples of those lands and then the forced relocation of Africans to them.

    What kinda detroit do you call that?

  • Maximus

    Great read! So true on so many levels.

    @ Rob: ‘Reverse’ racism? That’s the silliest thing i’ve heard this week!
    It’s not possible(Commenting all the way from the UK)

  • Britt

    I liked this article…when I try to explain this to people I know they call me racist but obviously yur just stating the facts

  • Neil Carter

    Yo Mama so fat so jupmed and got stuck inna d air

  • Madame Arnoux

    Rob:

    I’m sorry you got beat up in JHS by a bunch of black kids. That sucks. Still, however, the kids that did that are powerless in the greater sense. By beating you up, they exerted a sense of false or fleeting power, which in the long run means nothing. Sure there are minorities in positions of power now, but that is a relatively new occurrence.

    The article is not racist. It is simply pointing out how what was once considered ugly is now celebrated as the new standard of beauty. Nowhere does she imply that blacks are superior to whites. That would be racist.

    Sarah:

    Again, I don’t think you understand how racism works. How, I ask you, can blacks be some of the most racist people in the world when they have never been in a position of power? Blacks have never conquered a region then subjugated its inhabitants based purely on the color of their skin. Whites, on the other hand, firmly believed that brown skinned people could not govern without the paternalistic oversight of whites.

    By pointing out that Justin Timberlake and others have found crossover success, the author proves a continuation of white artists looking to the black community for inspiration. The problem, then, is that black people have been doing the same thing for years without ever reaching the same level of success. It’s the same as when Elvis adopted and repackaged for whites rock n roll music that came directly out of the black community. Elvis, because he’s white, was far more palatable to white audiences. That the recording industry has been one of the most racist industries around is well documented.

    America has changed, but not so much that racism ceases to exist. Overt racism is frowned upon, however structural racism makes sure people know their place. For a good read try Racism without Racists by Bonilla Silva.

  • 42 Cents

    I can’t stand the Kardashians period. I’m really irked that this entire family has gotten extremely rich over that whore’s sextape.

  • Ravi

    if it makes you feel any better, they were pretty rich beforehand. Robert Kardashian was worth millions before he died and bruce jenner was even richer. the sisters were fairly well known socialites and media whores before the sex tape.

  • http://www.christianchameleon.blogspot.com Christian Chameleon

    LOVE love loveee this article. You addressed so many issues with this world today. You basically said everything that most of us are too scared to even talk about for fear of judgement or condemnation. I appreciate this piece of work!

  • Madawu

    As a fellow journalist myself, I do have to say this article was very well written Danielle!

  • http://www.christianchameleon.blogspot.com Christian Chameleon

    “Everyone likes black stuff when it’s not on a black person.”

    This statement speaks volumes about the premise of your article. It was so good I had to reread it. Thanks for putting this out there. We need to wake up!

  • Allana Lake

    Cee-Lo was nominated for Best Pop Album

  • OMG.CanItBe?

    The sentence:

    “Our music, asses, lips, hair, dance moves are all crass vulgarities until some non-white person “cleans them up” and “makes them accessible” by doing the exact same thing – but being white while doing it.”

    Shouldn’t it be “non-black” or “non-person of color”?

  • http://www.jorisocentric.blogspot.com Joke

    Very good commentary on subtlety of race around everybody. It’s things we don’t think about on a daily basis but just goes to show we need to. Awesome article!

  • http://www.jorisocentric.blogspot.com Joke

    Very good commentary on subtlety of race around us. It’s things we don’t think about on a daily basis but just goes to show we need to. Awesome article!

  • read again.

    you are seriously misreading this article. Seriously. She does not EVER, ONCE state that black people are in anyway superior. Those words, and that implication is simply NOT THERE. What she says is that several physical features that society have long deemed unattractive on black people are now being considered beautiful and sensual on non-black people. As for music, she is saying that music that was originated and mastered by black people has repeatedly, through out history, been lauded and praised when done by white artists. No one, not Danielle, not me, not anyone denies that Adele is an extremely talented R&B artists. She is, and her passion for R&B is legitimate and true. Yet she is constantly referred to as a pop artist by popular media and award shows, while Beyonce and others like her are often (not always) marked as an R&B artist (the less “mainstream’ of the two). Hmm.

    No one is saying that it’s these individuals’ fault that they have what have long been considered “black” features or play what was has long been considered “black” music. The point is that, talented or not, beautiful or not – they are being positively acknowledged by popular media and mainstream america in a way that their african american equals rarely are.

    The fact that you see reverse racism in an article pointing out these facts is interesting… to say the least.

  • City

    Though I do believe the Kardashians are overrated, over hyped, no talent having women whose mother should be arrested and charged for prostituting her own daughters so she can get more chances to be in front of the camera, I do NOT agree with linking the Kardashians to this article. My reasoning is not to be one of those black people that you accuse of “defending them” but because I have exposed one major flaw to your claim of “celebrating the Black Beauty on White Women” and linking them to the Kardashians which is the Kardashians are not white. Robert Kardashian was the son of Armenian-American parents named Helen & Arthur. Armenian people are people with brown hue and can be as dark as Wesley Snipes sun tanning in Texas in the summer. As you should well know if you did your research Armenia is surrounded by Turkey, Iran Syria & Iraq. Not too far away from Libya, Egypt, Jordan & Saudi Arabia. Though the African slave trade has never received the attention or reparations it should from the world from all the damages it cause to generations of our people one cannot turn a blind eye to other’s pain and suffrage such as the Armenian genocide where almost 1.5 million Armenians were murdered, while others forced out of their homes worked in unstable living conditions (Sounds kinda familiar?) from 1915-1923. Now we all know Kris Kardashian is white, but is that the dominate gene that drives this article? Are we not saying if you have white in you or if you’re not all African American and we find you attractive then you are “celebrating the Black Beauty on White Women”? So is there going to be an article written about Halle Berry? Oh, she has black in her; what about J-Lo she has a very nice backside that men still find attractive? Or are we doing the Chris Rock “We don’t break white people in different categories, we hate ALL white people” thinking? Isn’t that just as ignorant and racist like the people who put white, Armenian or Asian girls on pedestals over black women? This really has nothing to do with the Kardashians or their big backsides let’s be honest, this is because they’re not black. Run’s daughters got this much attention then we wouldn’t have a problem. Jim Crow has worked so well black folks now hate ANYBODY no matter if they have brown skin like some of them or came from a similar struggle. I can’t wait for the Kardashian fame to die or just go away but I also can’t wait for emotion triggering articles like this pushing fueling misguided hatred towards non-African Americans just because they are getting more looks than sistas.

  • Ravi

    not to be contrary or anything, but Armenians are white. They are from the caucasus region. While I can’t verify that no Armenian is as dark as Wesley Snipes, it certainly isn’t prevalent. finding a couple atypically dark Armenians wouldn’t make them non-white any more than finding a couple light skinned black people make us non-black. There is variance found in every race and ethnicity. Granted, some more than others but black people aren’t the only one to come in multiple shades. and i’m no geography major but a quick look on google maps will show you that Armenia is pretty far from Libya and Egypt. Greece is closer to both nations, so are greek people not white also? I’m not sure how relevant that is anyway considering all north African countries have more than their share of Caucasians. genetic dominance also has no relevance here. you can’t apply simple punnett squares to everything involving genetics. It’s a bit more complex than that.

  • Sacks

    Are you seriously trying to suggest ancient Egyptians weren’t black? If so please don’t bother commenting on this article again as you are merely proving the point.

  • Sacks

    Yes Ravi. I live in Europe and I’m a bit puzzled by all the “Armenians aren’t white comments”

  • thelosopher

    I really hate to see my Sisters (I’m assuming this article was written by a Black woman) spend one hot second feeling upset about the way the dominant culture (European) defines beauty or whatever. We (Black folk) have to establish our own identity separate, but equal to the prevailing cultural identities. I honestly don’t think this self defeating indoctrination is what Dr. MLK envisioned in his ‘dream’ of desegregation. To all my Sistas out there; I pray for a day when you find a love for yourself completely absent any external systems of value (white or Black)

  • ScriptTease

    I loved this article, but I think you made a mistake… They don’t wont our hair, it’s the color of our skin is what they want… maybe not as dark as others…. but dark.

  • http://www.modelmayhem.com/kevinstewart Kevin Stewart

    I will open this reply with a qualifier. I seldom watch television but when I visit my family I get caught up and my (AFRICAN-AMERICAN) family stay tuned in to the bravo and VH1 reality shows…I agree with the arch of the initial post with this disclaimer: race is a misnomoer and while Americans have blindly swallowed the false teachings of it as scientific and or fact we now find it difficult to critique the negative effects and psychlogical damage it levels members of our own nation because we wish to define other by it. Just look at the so called geographical corrections about the Kardashian’s race. Its despicable to read my intelliegent fellow Americans stomp all over terms that are appilcable here. Terms like “national origin and ethnicity. How about first using terms that make sense beyond our national boarders…white people do it to. Just link on over to imdb and read the comments about the upcoming release of the movie CLEOPATRA. Whites have bastardized Greek and Roman history as “white” to justify the mis-education over her ancestry. Its awful..

    The writer makes valed points. Right now very few women of color would do anything other than berat magazines like BLACK MEN, SHOW MAGAZINE and SMOOTH. These magazines were among the first to celebrate the backsides of black women. Now more mainstream publications turn white and hispanic woman around…This small example facilitated the rise of CoCo ( Ice-Tee’s wife) and increasingly not so colored women get all the priase on the backs of women of color….its a fact….but oh….let me tell you when I see television I see women of color all sporting that long bone striaght hair….the trade off is equally damaging…..tisk tisk….we aint going home for awhile….Toto!

  • CJ

    I concur, I liked this article, found myself sayin ‘oh yeah’ a few times.. But to call me a racist because i agreed with this point of view is wholly ignorant – people need to understand the definition of the word and stop throwing it around so carelessly.

  • lb*rollingstone

    To the sista who wrote this article, I am a brother and I agree with you 100%. I wish we as Black Men wholesale understood that many of our standards, even our personalities have been grafted by this society. I know the game and I love sistas and only sistas. Keep spreading that true knowledge to the people. Everything that is relished on Blacks is glorifyed on non-Blacks because others have problems with us and we have not come to a love for ourselves. We have to do better. There is nothing any group of people have done better than us. And Black women especially West African and West African descendants are the most beautiful and unique women on this planet. So keep shining sistas, some of us brothers aren’t brainwashed. Some of us want all of you to feel beautiful, especially my dark skin sistas. Anyways, love ya’ll.

  • Grace

    Where do they make black men like you? ‘Cause I know I need to go fishing in THAT part of the country, lol

  • Ally

    This is a great piece and every. single. word. is so very true! In paragraph 7 I think you meant to say “non-black” though. No biggie, still an excellent read!

  • Jess B

    I must say…..luv them or hate them….. this is a bad a$$ family photo!

  • http://mynameisamal.tumblr.com Elizabeth

    This is phenomenal. Everything about it completely made sense… and yet unfortunately, nothing about it was surprising.

  • rob

    Yes. “Reverse” racism. Admittedly, a clumsy misnomer in colloquial speak. Just as we Americans call something a “driveway” even though we actually PARK our cars on it. We call our service members “Sailors” even though they operate nuclear powered ships, or even fly aircraft in the Navy. I don’t control yankee english, I just speak it.

    I would think twice about playing DUMB in discussion concerning race relations since many of your opponents will already be predisposed to think you fit the bill. And last time I checked, African Americans appear to take the most liberty with “PROPER” english so the “reverse racism doesn’t exist because it’s improper english” argument honestly just looks pathetic. Trust me…

    Food for thought…

  • Playthell Benjamin

    The thing that I find most interesting about this entire discussion is that so many people find this artilce to be some sort of revelation. THIS IS OLD NEWS!!!!! It’s all true, but it has been true since the black face minstrle shows of the 1840′s and 50′s which was the most popular form of mass entertainment of the 19th century and spread around the world! It was true when Al Golson beame the most famous star in the world singing “Mammy” wearing blackface in the movies. The first network radio show was two white guys imitating two black guys – Freeman Gosedn and Charles Corell – in “Amos N Andy.” It was true when Benie Goodman was crowned “The King Of Swing” and so it goes!!!!!!!!!

  • Ratheruninspired

    I love the blog entry and love this reply. I will hold them together and reflect further.

  • http://www.straightnochase.com josie

    How many times can I scream YES, YES, and yes.

    “A white woman with a black booty is like a pack of psychological Splenda – still as sweet as sugar, but without the burden of slavery, systematic racism, and centuries of internalized hate and taboos”

    – all of THAT.

    Best article clutch has posted HANDS down. Well written!

    xx
    josie

  • guest

    Maybe all of you skanks should stop appropriating white culture and stop wearing jeans, sporting western fashion and stop buying fake gucci & LV, and especially trying to straighten your hair (all you bitches is guilty!!) Then talk some sh##t. How come all the “good looking” people you idolize is light skinned, i.e. white beauty? And then the dumb bish who wrote this article has a light skinned cartoon chick with curly hair on her blog when in actuality she is black as night Nappy headed ho!! LMFAO!! GTFOH with this ish….

    http://blacksnob.com/

  • Guest

    Let’s rewind a little bit. The Kardashians are Armenian, which, to me and many others, still puts them in the category of “women of color.” The Kardashians are not white, they are women of color. Aren’t women of color, no matter if they are black, green, purple, blue, WHATEVER, supposed to stick together? Why are you directing your anger at one family, who isn’t even white? You are continuing to perpetuate this idea that black women are completely separate from other women of color. You are continuing to perpetuate disunity among all women.

    And lastly, burden of slavery…please. Let it go. I am a black women and I do not wake up every day carrying “a burden of slavery” with me. I also do not carry “centuries of internalized hate” with me. I am really sorry for you if you do because that must be a horrible feeling. But it is about to be 2012, step up and stop comparing black women to others. We’re all WOMEN. Be proud of who you are without comparing how you are viewed to how someone else is viewed.

  • Isis

    *sigh*

  • Guest

    I agree with Rob and I’m a black woman. And whoever proclaimed that blacks (especially the black children who beat up Rob) are powerless should really be ashamed. What kind of twisted views are you spreading? I really hope you do not have children. Blacks are not powerless. Maybe you feel powerless and that is really unfortunate. Have you heard of Barack Obama? Yeah, definitely the most powerless man in the free world. Do you realize how RIDICULOUS you sound?

  • Guest

    aaaand it’s funny that you’re still on here, still fighting for this article like it’s a great piece of journalism. all it does is make black women feel bad about themselves. give it a rest. really. take. a break.

  • Isis

    Lmaooo

  • Ravi

    Armenians are caucasian. all white people aren’t pale anglo-saxons. read here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_peoples

  • Wow

    Features are features. Like skin color, we do not choose them. Why is a big ole booty only a black feature? Seems to me that if we let the false “racial ownership” of certain qualities go, we could have a lot more harmony and understanding. No race owns any feature or characteristic. We are all human, and it’s luck of the draw! How fortunate for Kim K that she is so beautiful. Now, move on.

  • John

    Great article. It reminds me of a collection of essays edited by Greg Tate called “Everything But The Burden”.

  • Bella24

    Interesting article, and contrary to what is written here by other posters, the article does not make me as a black woman feel bad, nor do I feel that Armenians “people of color”. The oldest children’s father was Armenian, and yes there are such designations in that country as “ethnic Armenians” true enough, but Armenians are simply Eastern European caucasians formerly of the Soviet Union (I’ve been there, the cultural vibe is overwhelmingly Russian). Their mother, Kris Jenner, is the former Kristen Mary Houghton born to Mary Jo Campbell and Robert Houghton, which for me (unless you’re gospel superstar Isreal Houghton) is about as non-person-of-color-as-you-can-get, lol. So I do understand the point Danielle Belton was trying to make, and I agree with the poster that said this article brings to mind the Tate essays “Everything But the Burden”. I think she has a valid point of view.

  • Guest

    Armenians are not caucasians, as are Turkish, Persians, Southeast Asians, Israelites, etc… They are not Anglos and they are “people of color”. They are not white in every sense of the word.

    This article is problematic and bit racist too. So black people features are only pretty in white people? Uh? So every other person, no matter what race, who have defined buttocks, lips, thighs, etc., are “stealing” it from black people? *sigh*

    If this is some attempt to play the whole “we were the first to do this and that…” game, Im not surprised. Expected and typical from people like you.

  • Ravi

    LOL, anglos are only one type of Caucasian. There are many different types. I think you are confounding anglo-saxon’s with caucasians. The name is derived from the Caucasus region. That’s where all the groups you named above are from. Armenians are the quintessential caucasians. Every white person is not pale just like every black person isn’t pitch black. Just google Caucasian and you will see.

  • Timcampi

    @Ravi

    Here’s a chart :D Welcome back by the way~

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Meyers_b11_s0476a.jpg

  • Ravi

    @Timcampi, thanks. been back since finals ended. That’s an old map. you can find a bit more contemporary. Anything that only uses the three race taxonomy is usually pretty dated — well more dated. All use of large races is pretty obsolete. There are tons of different models, but damn near every time you will see people in the Caucasus region being categorized as Caucasian. I mean come on, where do people think the name Caucasian came from.

    we so heavily identify white with power structure in this country that it is difficult for many of us to understand that there are groups of white people that are discriminated against. It’s only recently that Jews have been considered white in the U.S. Before that Italians weren’t considered white. I recommend a book called how the Irish became white. It examines how many didn’t consider the irish white when they first got here.

  • Timcampi

    @Ravi

    Too true. Hell, the Scottish got it in for awhile. Middle Eastern people are considered white as well, and they’re this decade’s black sheep. How’d finals go for you by the way? Oh and what’s your major! And how do you deal with mid year apathy. Because right now, I love my major… but I just don’t want to do anything haha.

  • Ravi

    I won’t get my grades back for another couple weeks but I think I did ok. I’m a JD/MBA student. This year I’m doing law, last year it was business. I go back and forth each year. I got a case of pre-finals apathy. I didn’t do a lot of preparation for finals and likely did a lot worse than I should have. I spent more time watching tv and playing video games than I did preparing for the exams. The vacation is what helps me get my head back in the game. I don’t have class again until the 23rd. Trying to keep some sort of balance is key. Playing a sport, working a job, joining or creating some student organizations, or just take a road trip on a weekend. I have always done a lot of different things to make sure i’m having a lot of fun in school. How about you? How did finals go?

  • Guest

    @Ravi.

    Think in context when Americans use the words “white” and “caucasian.” True, Armenia is in the Caucus region, but that doesn’t make then white in America. They are not the Anglo-Saxon Americans everyone imagines when we say “white” or “caucasian.”

    It is rather silly to try to ascribe certain races and “different types” of races (what does that even mean?) to everyone, as race is a social construct with no biological explanation to date. Race has not been proven in the realm of science, and thus when we speak of races we address the social constructs that society places on groups of people. White or caucasian in American means Anglo-Saxon Protestant people. Armenians are not Anglo-Saxon Protestants as are Persians, Jews, Hispanics and so on and so forth.

    It would be fair to say Hispanics are white since some have actual proven European ancestry and not just from Spain too. However, if thats the case, then you are “white Hispanic” which is totally problematic.

    Ravi, Good Luck on your studies!

  • Armen

    @Ravi.

    Why are you so hopeful to convince everyone that Armenians are white? What would you say to Armenians who don’t consider themselves white? For an educated person, you are really playing a lost cause. Newsflash Ravi, race is a social construct, it has not been proven, and thus, it doesn’t exist.

    Since its a social construct, in America, Armenians are not white since they are considered middle-eastern people. People from the middle-east are not Anglo-Saxon Protestants, they are the 1% that controls America, only Glendale, lol.
    Armenia is the only Christian country in the Caucus region that is a Christian minority, which explains the small size of the country and the crippling poverty since it has been invaded by countless middle-eastern superpowers.

  • Ravi

    I am American, so I think I’m just as qualified as you to say what American’s think when they say white. Being from the Caucasus region pretty much makes them white everywhere. You seem to be confounding nationality or ethnicity with race. Saying Armenians are not white is about as silly as saying Russians aren’t white or Italians aren’t white. American’s don’t just think of Anglo Saxons when they think of white people. Anglo Saxons make up only a small portion of the total white people. You might think that way, but that’s not what is meant by white within the context of this country. I am willing to bet that if you did an image search of Armenian people on google, then posted that picture on your fb asking what the race of that individual was, every last American would say white. You have no basis for suggesting that Armenians aren’t white. the very thought is laughable.

    “It is rather silly to try to ascribe certain races and “different types” of races (what does that even mean?) to everyone, as race is a social construct with no biological explanation to date.”

    I’m not sure what you meant by this, but it doesn’t seem to apply to anything I wrote. Try rephrasing this for clarity. Of course race is a social construct. Did I suggest differently? It has some biological, aspects, so to say it has no biological explanation is nonsensical. My point had nothing to do with the fact that race is a social construct, so I don’t know why you brought it up. Anthropology and sociology are sciences. Science does address race. To say it hasn’t been proven in the realm of science doesn’t make sense. It’s a dated system of classification. systems of classification aren’t things to be proven. every model of race classification is inconsistent, so contemporary scientist don’t really use traditionally defined large races. they are too large and not generalizable. Scientists opt for much smaller population groupings when classifying people nowadays.

    Your assertion that only anglo saxons are white within this country just doesn’t jive with reality. Greeks, Spaniards, Albanians, Georgians, Estonians, and French are also not Anglo Saxons. Are you really so ill-informed to believe that they are also not white? Latinos are generally consist of one or more races, they are not a race. Latinos can be white, because Spanish and Portuguese people are white; just like Armenians, Persians, and Jews. You really should just look this stuff up. Google is our friend. you won’t find any legitimate source that defines white as only Anglo Saxons. There would be hardly any white people on earth if that were the case. Many of the white people in America aren’t Anglo Saxons.

  • Timcampi

    @Ravi

    Finals were okay… but I’m never doing group work ever again. In the end, I had to do ALL the work, ALL the research, and use my own damn free time to do the homework and final project. Also I got the second lowest grade in the group even though I did the most work. Yay. It’s my fault though… I don’t tend to speak up for myself haha.

    We don’t really have a lot to do here as far as clubs and sports go, but I do play video games like mad cray. I’m honestly just over the whole minority at a PWI school. I did it in middle school (2 black students, two asian students, one latino student, everyone else white) I did it in boarding school (80 black students, majority white, smaller majority asian), and now I’m doing it again in college (40 black students, maybe 20-30 asian students, 1400 white). I’m over it. I wouldn’t mind if this branch of UPitt was progressive and phenomenal in education, but it’s not. I’m in a small white racist town where people can stab two students of color simply for existing and still make it look like the kids were asking for it. It’s depressing, do you have any advice? I get to transfer to the main campus in a year and a half. I’m only staying because my education is 100 percent free and I’m willing to bear the bullsh*t if I graduate loan-free.

    Thanks in advance :D

  • Timcampi

    I should mention that I have not been able to find a job since relocating here. I’ve tried EVERYWHERE. But either they’re full or don’t want my dark tinge in the spotlight.

  • Ravi

    I know how that can be. My elementary had no more the 5 black students at any given time and that includes me and my brother. My business school has about 40 black students out of about 700. My law school is only a little better. And you want to talk about racist, Virginia has confederate history month. The following link shows a picture of an actual UVA law party last year:
    http://gawker.com/5773472/uva-law-students-love-confederate-flag-beer-pong

    There are statues of a certain slave raping bigot president every where you go. but that’s the kind of world we live in.

    I don’t suggest you give up on group work though. You have to learn how to navigate groups. it is a critical work force skill for most any occupation. Besides, much of the best learning happens in group work settings.

    video games are a must. I’m on my PS3 way more than I care to admit. Getting my butt handed to me on MVC3 by people all over the world.

    my advice is if you aren’t having the time of your life in college, it’s time to get the hell up out of dodge. transfer to a more diverse, progressive environment. college is supposed to be fun, not something you have to bear for another year and a half. Student loans are usually pretty low interest and pretty good debt. don’t be afraid of the loans. in my programs, the average student borrows over 100k. of course the average starting salary is over 100k also, but it’s not like you have to pay it back all at once. You can pay the minimum until you are old. There are also a lot of grants and scholarships that you can find. many of these scholarships don’t have a lot of people applying. people are trying to give out money for school and people aren’t trying to collect it.

    Have you tried a job at your university? they might have work study opportunities. A nice library job would be cool so you can get paid while you sit at a desk and get your studying done.

  • Ravi

    @Armen

    newsflash, i never said that race was not a social construct. It also has nothing to do with the fact that Armenians are white. Do you understand what a social construct means? It doesn’t seem like you do, because it has nothing to do with the fact that Armenians are white. I think you need to look up social construct before trying to come on here trying to correct people with nonsensical arguments.

    I’m not hopeful to convince everyone of anything. Most people know that Armenians are white. I’m just helping to stop the misinformation spread around by a few individuals that didn’t seem to get a memo.

    your last paragraph makes so little sense that I won’t even try to refute what you are saying. it’s like a self check in basketball that you don’t have to bother guarding. but being that you seem to be the same person that is posting later on the message board that believes that Anglo saxon is synonymous with white, what does the term WASP mean? how can you have a White Anglo Saxon Protestant if all whites are anglo saxon? wouldn’t that be like saying white white protestant? you make so little sense that I would be laughing if I didn’t feel bad that you actually believe this stuff. Please do yourself a favor and look stuff up before writing messages on the internet. I’ll even help you out. go to the following link and read up

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_interpretations_of_race
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people

    now once you read up, come back so we can have an intelligent conversation.

  • Guest

    Ravi,

    As an Armenian-American I think that we don’t need any more Americans trying to classify people into races. We all know how many obscenities doing so has caused.

    Is it rather insulting when you label and entire group of people (as white) who see themselves Armenian or Middle Eastern.

    I’m not white, but you consider me white, so do I exist?

  • Socially Maladjusted

    @Guest

    This article is problematic and bit racist too. So black people features are only pretty in white people? Uh? So every other person, no matter what race, who have defined buttocks, lips, thighs, etc., are “stealing” it from black people? *sigh*

    Hmmm?

    I think your post kinda settles the argument.

    is a celebrated black scientist, say Dr Neil Degrasse, stealing Chinese brains? Only Chinese people can be brainy?

    On the other hand, some of the fascination with people who EFFORTLESSLY (without trying) defy racial expectations or stereotypes lies in the novelty bone they tickle in all of us.

    Sad but true.

    LOL!

    A PAWG (phat ass white girl) is an exotic creature who teases a man’s, especially a black man’s sexual curiosity because she offers an extra dimension of female to male differentness.

    Not only is she white and female, she also has the kind of curves and bumps that evolution has biologically wired black men to desire in women (hence the prevelence of such traits in black women)

    She has the woman-ness of a black woman, the differentness of whiteness and femaleness of not being male.

    Which is an irresistable recipe for some explosive JUNGLE FEVERNESS.

    hold on, back in a minute . . .

    Ok I’m back phew. lmao ha ha ha . . .

    The human race wouldn’t have made it if all there was on the African Savannah was Lindsey no ass Lohan to mate with.

    LMAO!

    Dunno why Sistas are bitching about Kardasian, Oprah’s been doing the “white woman” thing for years, hating on black men, advocating feminism and chatting fluffy foolishness.

    Why we can’t have a lil big booty relief from all that yakkin?

    shut up shut shut up and just back up dat ass

    Strewth!

    LMAO!

  • Socially Maladjusted

    @Guest

    This article is problematic and bit racist too. So black people features are only pretty in white people? Uh? So every other person, no matter what race, who have defined buttocks, lips, thighs, etc., are “stealing” it from black people? *sigh*

    Hmmm?

    I think your post kinda settles the argument.

    is a celebrated black scientist, say Dr Neil Degrasse, stealing Chinese brains? Only Chinese people can be brainy?

    On the other hand, some of the fascination with people who EFFORTLESSLY (without trying) defy racial expectations or stereotypes lies in the novelty bone they tickle in all of us.

    Sad but true.

    LOL!

    A PAWG (phat ass white girl) is an exotic creature who teases a man’s, especially a black man’s sexual curiosity because she offers an extra dimension of female to male differentness.

    Not only is she white and female, she also has the kind of curves and bumps that evolution has biologically wired black men to desire in women (hence the prevelence of such traits in black women)

    She has the woman-ness of a black woman, the differentness of whiteness and femaleness of not being male.

    Which is an irresistable recipe for some explosive JUNGLE FEVERNESS.

    hold on, back in a minute . . .

    Ok I’m back phew. lmao ha ha ha . . .

    The human race wouldn’t have made it if all there was on the African Savannah was Lindsey no ass Lohan to mate with.

    LMAO!

    Dunno why Sistas are b itching about Kardasian, Oprah’s been doing the “white woman” thing for years, hating on black men, advocating feminism and chatting fluffy foolishness.

    Why we can’t have a lil big booty relief from all that yakkin?

    shut up shut shut up and back up dat ass

    Strewth!

    LMAO!

  • Armen

    Ravi,

    You are dismissed. Fact is I’m Armenian and I don’t consider myself white, and neither do I consider my fellow Armenians white. What do you have to say about that?

    I don’t think we would be readily welcomed in white supremacists groups. You can talk as much as you’d like from your obvious soap-box, but the reality is, and I stress “reality” is that Armenians are not white: We are not WASP’s and we don’t belong to oppressive white supremacists groups (neither would we be welcomed). Ravi, I hate to break it to you, but there is a difference between practice and theory. You can preach as much as you’d like from your comfortable seat in the world of academia, but the reality begs to differ.

    You have proven to be just another typical American who thinks they know everything and refuse to have an open-mind. Stop trying to shove yet another identity down my throat, I don’t need you telling me what race I am, or that I’m wrong about my perception.

    I’m Armenian and I don’t consider myself white. Take your precious links with maps, classifications, and ideologies that contribute to the oppressive environments that have led to unspeakable genocides!

    Expose yourself to the truth thats ultimately found in the real world and then you can tell me what you think. Until then your words are meaningless.

    P.S: No real scholar cites wikipedia as a valid source.

    Cheers Ravi!

  • Ravi

    @Armen,

    I have to say that you are not a very smart Armenian. You can call yourself whatever you like, but as you like to point out so much, race is a social construct. In this society, you are white. You can call yourself Chinese for all I care, but for the purposes of all the sane people on earth, you are white.

    I’m not sure what you aren’t understanding, but I will try to go slowly, so even you can understand. WASPs are white anglo saxon protestants. WASPs are a subset of white people. an Irish catholic person isn’t a WASP, but they are white. Every white person isn’t a WASP. To say Armenians aren’t WASPs, doesn’t help your argument. It’s a moot point. Most white people are not WASPs. White supremacists don’t define who is white. Most don’t consider anyone outside of pure “aryan” ancestry to be white.

    I know it can be difficult speaking to someone with an education and a working understanding of elementary logic, what with all my book learning, but this has nothing to do with theory. This is about classification. Classification created by scientists that study, wait for it, REALITY. Reality is not your limited, poorly-read experiences. If you bothered to actually read up on these things before opening your big mouth, then maybe you wouldn’t be making these asinine assertions on a message board.

    It’s funny that you call me a typical American, yet earlier you were trying to argue that “in America, Armenians are not white since they are considered middle-eastern people.” sounds like you just nullified your own argument. If I’m the typical American then quite possibly the typical American does, in fact, believe Armenians are white. and if they didn’t think that Armenians were white, then why does everyone except for you and a couple uneducated friends think that Kim K is white? And what about all the other people that Americans call white wouldn’t be based on your nonsensical definition? Steven Spielberg isn’t a WASP and is of middle eastern decent. I’m sure everyone would be surprised to find out he isn’t white. How about Ben Stiller? Not a WASP either, so I guess he isn’t white either.

    you can call yourself Vulcan for all I care, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t white. you are just delusional and a bit simple. I never tell anyone how they have to identify themself, I’m telling you what you are based on how races are defined. Expose yourself to some reading, until then, your words are just the inane ramblings of an uneducated buffoon.

    P.S. I didn’t cite anything. I gave you an encyclopedia link so you can start educating yourself. Wikipedia is used frequently in academia. I’m working on my 3rd and 4th degrees right now, so I think I would know. Now get reading my simple, melanin challenged friend.

    Cheers!!

  • Suburban Soulgirl

    @TC:

    Obviously you’re the one who needs to do the checking cos Armenia is listed yas a European country:

    http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/index_en.htm

    Your argument *only* had weight cos Armenia is landlocked in the Eurasia region, but otherwise you’re dead wrong. Sorry.

  • Suburban Soulgirl

    @Guest-

    I think your beef should be with the EU, as they’re the ones who classified Armenia as a European Country, not Clutch. Here’s what I pulled from the Wikipedia page about Armenia:

    “The Government of Armenia holds European integration as a key priority in its foreign policy as it is considered a European country by the European Union.”

    Also the EU’s official page has Armenia listed as a European country:

    http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/index_en.htm

  • Ravi

    sorry, but you don’t get to tell us how to define races. you can identify yourself however you want, but society will do the same. If you aren’t white, what race are you? Are you Black, Micronesian, Oceanian? Armenian isn’t a race, smartness, it’s a nationality and an etnicity; and neither is middle eastern for that matter. Don’t blame me because you don’t know the difference between race and ethnicity. race isn’t about self-identification. There are socially defined classification systems that, while inconsistent, are rooted in what other people view about a persons phenotype and ancestry. In almost every western society, the vast majority of the population and the government will define you as white. I’m afraid you don’t get a say any more than I do. I can’t tell people “i’m not black, I’m from Detroit” and expect them to take me seriously. I’m black by definition. this is not about how I view myself. Armenians are caucasians by definition of the word caucasian. This is about as stupid as someone saying, “I’m not Asian, I’m Japanese. I’ve never even been to China.”

    you don’t want to be called white anymore, go to Brazil. They have many different races that you might be able to pass for.

  • Ivan Cohen

    Much adoo and ballyoo over the Kardashians, they are the media flavor of the moment. American society goes through women like kleenex. While unknown right now someone is the wings being groomed to replace the Kardashians. If this person has siblings it will be a coup d’etat.

  • Anonymous

    Are you serious? White women are “stealing” black women’s features? As a white woman with a butt- I find this insulting, and racist. And I don’t mean against me- I mean against the black women you are insulting! And there are black women out there who DON’T have curves. So how do you get off saying that they belong to one race and not another? It’s a feature that belongs to WOMEN! And we should all celebrate our bodies, as different as we all are. You are projecting your hatred on the wrong group!

    And I’m sorry, but what are you talking about, a “burden of slavery?” I’m sorry that it happened- and just like I’m sorry that the Holocaust happened- but it was a long time ago, and it is not a part of American culture today.

    Move on. Grow up.

  • guest

    My personal opinion for the reason as to why “white” women get more attention when they are born with a booty, full lips, curvy hips…… is simply because its unexpected. Everyone loves the unexpected.
    Ms. Belton: Now I am not sure if this is really who you are or if you are just playing a role to start this debate that has formed over this blog, but you are coming across as a very angry possibly racist person that is unable to move on in life and realize that we no longer live in a world of slavery. With that said maybe you should go out and explore the rest of the world and see that us “full- figured” white women are everywhere now and you just need to get use to it and move on……..

  • BEAUTIFUL

    It is clear to me that the majority of you commenting on this article missed the entire purpose in this post, which clearly appears to attempt to expose the double standards that society has towards women who obviously would be classified as non African descent, thus White, Armenian, Latin, Asian just to name a few. And clearly I did not expect most of you to get it because you can’t relate to the mind blowing double standards of the celebrated booty of JLo dancing half necked accross the stage in hip hop videos and being celebrated and considered the Beauty Queen Butt Holder Trophy, but if a obviously African descent women did the same dance with a big butt it would be considered vulgar or the street word ghetto, Kardashians especially Kim are very strickingly beautiful young women as well, but I would not consider them no more attractive as Beyonce, Sanaa Lathan, Gabrielle Union, Megan Good, Nia Long just to name a few, and secondly these women of African descent have proven they are talented beautiful and smart, I mean like real entertainers talent, not reality tv talent and so their beauty is just extra an added benefit. But none of them are put on the level by the media of beauty like the Kardashians and JLO, Angelina Jolie, etc. strange thing it is very obvious that the Kardashians have had a lot of enhancements done like botox, bootytox to maintain their beauty so Kim in particular looks enhanced however none of the naturally gorgeous African descent women who I am sure does hours of excercise, has personal trainers, chefs, beauty aestheticians to help them maintain their beauty look fake in fact none of them have had breast enhancements, lip enhancements, botox but enhancements it all natural, yes they wear hair extension, but so do most other race women in hollywood JLo, actually pulled hers off in one movie. The point the the writer is trying to make known is that women of African descent who look black, their hair is course, skin is darker have all of this naturally,but they are still not considered as beautiful as someone like Kim who admits she is in the tanning salon, has had her lips and breast enhanced and gets botox treatments. But no matter what she is still celebrated as the eptiome of beauty (the standard), strangely even by most black men and she does not even resemble their mother, however women of African descent are ridiculed if all they have as an enhancement are a couple of extension in their hair for length typically African descent women dont need extensions for fullness however other race women like JLo uses extension for fullness but because the texture of synthetic/human hair blends with their own it is accepted as natural or just as costume. The reality is this article is real and is not racist, basically what she is attempting do is expose the double standards in society about how they reward women of other races for being blessed or perhaps enhancing themselves with fullness, but women of an obvious African descent are not regarded as high in terms of physical attractiveness and they on much much larger scale have these features naturally, I guess one would say it all boils down to preference well perhaps but anyone living in my skin would say their is something sinister subconciously transferred to the world regarding the natural beauty of women of African descent that women of other races pay millions of dollars to attain and maintain..

    However, it is not just that way with African descent women, our men also feel the double standards particularly in sports. Example, I think Tim Tebow is great, but if Chad Johnson decided he wanted to become a devout Christian and felt the Holy Spirit urging him to display his thankfulness to God after a win….I just believe NFL would have fined him or asked him to stop, or better yet devised a rule that would not allow NFL Players to display any religious suggestions to whom they believe is responsible for the fortune after a game or during a game. But let me parallel this more specifically with the subject matter, the NFL Commentators were very resistant to Michael Vicks athleticism as a quarterback and many of them second guess his him for years by really resisting to categorize him as a true Quarterback still to this day, but Tim Tebow who is obviously very driven and an amazing human being has obvious challenges ot categorizing him as a traditional Quarterback but it is very obvious that the NFL commentators are very willing to do so and are just waiting for him to prove himself and honestly the appear much much more excited and accepting of the idea that one day he will develop that well roundedness, but with Vick it took years for the analyst to come to terms with think after the dog fight (pun intended) he is recognized as a true but unique quaterback with his athleticism as a Quarterback. So people do not dismiss this article her points are valid. I like her title, but perhaps she should have gave it a more simple name for the more simple minded or the pretenders maybe this one “The Best of Both Worlds” Subtitled: The mysterious big butts, big lips, big breast, and big black tans of Americas nominated most beatiful women in the world.

  • http://bluelotusmagazine.com Blackmatterx

    Celebrating black beauty on white women? Is this a joke? It is internalized self-hatred and ignorance of black heritage and history that spits out such non-sense. First, whites were the first slaves in the Americas transported under the 1723 Waltham Act and the white female prostitutes were protected under the White Slave Trade Act. The word Slav and Serb are synonymous for slaves and servants–denoting the Slavic people of Europe. Blacks are indigenous to the Americas, really, the world for that matter. The Olmecs (Mandinka-Shi) of Mexico, West Africans, Nubians, Egyptians, Cambodians and first four Chinese dynasties were black. DO YOUR RESEARCH and stop promoting white propaganda. Black people cannot celebrate their beauty on other women until it is first appreciated on them selves. Black men are vulnerable targets and pones used to further separate, denationalize and deglobalize their own melanated people who get their superior qualities from Carbon–the building blocks of life. Consciousness is wisdom and wisdom is power! Interracial mating is the new genocide of the Black Race. Let them breed themselves out of existence–they say.

  • Stone

    The reason for the double standards is simply because of programmed thinking that white is right. The black gene is the parent template and white recessive–known as albinism. Symptoms include pale skin, light eyes, light hair, early aging, hypersensitivity to UV rays, osteoporosis, infertility, low birth rate, poor coordination, poor moral and lack of emotion (due to calcified pineal gland/Third Eye), and other genetic defects and disorders. Blacks are contracting the mutation through interracial breeding. In the last decades, blacks (males and females) have been targeted for interracial “mating” with whites to pass on the melanin required to sustain life. Melanin gets its blackness from carbon, which is found in the Universe, Earth, plants, animals and all LIVING THINGS. The darker the skin the more melanin and superior qualities one has. Scientist are working on hybrid melanin to cure cancer and clean the air. Black culture is unacceptable until it is presented by whites. Go figure!

  • Julia

    Have people even read the article?

    “It is internalized self-hatred and ignorance of black heritage and history that spits out such non-sense.”

    If they have they’ve missed the point. Read it again and try to understand that the author doesn NOT think black features are only beautyful in white women.

    Also… I’ve always had a problem with what many americans consider Women of Color.
    An example: I’ve seen Penelope Cruz being talked about as a woman of color. She isn’t, she is white. She is just spanish and people from the iberic peninsule tend to have skin a little darker than anglo-saxons. You can probably say it’s because of the arabian domination in middle age…But… Really?

  • Julia

    Ok. The more I read the more shocked I get. I will make it simple then.

    What the author says:
    1 -That features that are really common in black women aren’t considered beautyful by the mass media unless they are on a white woman.
    2 – That elements of black culture are aften overlooked by the mass media unless a white folk uses it.

    What the author DOES NOT say:
    1- That white women can’t have big lips, booty or any other characteristic.
    1- That black features are only good when in white women.

    Get it?

  • http://www.joveline.wordpress.com Joveline

    Jesus Christ,

    I wish people would stop “trivializing” the reality that black people face in this country. Bottom line, Armenians are not black or women of color. Those chicks are white. Moving right along.

    The author’s quote: “All the black girl parts they liked, but with none of that “black girlness.” Because, ew, black girls, right? A white woman with a black booty is like a pack of psychological Splenda – still as sweet as sugar, but without the burden of slavery, systematic racism, and centuries of internalized hate and taboos.” – This sums it up.

    Comedian Paul Mooney said it best, “Everyone wants to be black but no one wants to be black.”

  • Sloane

    Hey Sassy Frassy, I totally get what you’re saying. It’s not so much that there are white women who are born or “born” with black attributes that are the problem, it’s more the fact that these attributes that are natural to a black woman are only glorified when on a light-skinned or white woman. The glorification of the “black booty” on a white/light-skinned woman is where the cultural appropriation comes in.

    To reiterate, it’s not the butt itself that’s the appropriation, it’s the glorification of the big butt on everyone but black women that’s the issue.

  • bliz

    really showed your approval-seeking ass with this article. who gives a shit as long as i love myself?

  • Evanga

    Umm, no, they are not.

  • Evanga

    Of course it goes both ways…Asian women making their eyes unslanted, black women dying their hair blond and straightening it…

  • Evanga

    You are saying the Kardashians aren’t white? I am confused. They are not Hispanic, African or Asian and their mother is mainly Irish.

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  • BLACK WOMAN LUSTING MAN

    BACK IN THE 80′S AND 90′S BLACK FEATURES LIKE PLUMP LIPS WERE BEING HAILED AS SEXY ON WHITE WOMEN WHO WERE PUMPING UP DEM LIPS LIKE MICHELLE PFEIFFER …

  • http://loveandchunkybits.tumblr.com MB

    The Kardashians do identify as Armenian, which is a woman of color. OF course they have all the privilege, not saying that. (Of course the history is complex and according to the census, they are white)

    I dont really know what to say bc they date black men and give props to black people. I like them. I wish there were more diversity on TV, of course, but if the Kardashians acted the EXACT same way, but were black, I think there would be so much flack! I’m glad theyre who they are NOT representing blackness.

    I understand where ur coming from, no doubt. But I dont think trashing Karsahians is the way to go… esp since EVERYONE (except reality junkies as myself) trash them! Everyone who considers themself intelligent and cultured, they trash them w/o even watching the show.

    This is def not the ONLY way to explain why Kardashians are famous, its def a way, theyre sassy and lippy w/o all the stigma and shame of being black, I guess is what ur saying. But I also love the Braxtons, loved Run DMC’s reality show, and Housewives of Atlanta, and Love and Hip Hops and lets not forget Basketball Wives. Is your argument that those shows arent popular? Wheres the recognition? Is this a call to arms to boycott Kardashians, bc if it is, please tell people to watch some of these other black-centered reality shows!

    I’m 100% with ya on the fact that Bruno is pop, but Cee-Lo is R&B, thats blatant!

    I just dont know where ur going bc many of our most recognized entertainment and athletic icons are black. Beyonce and Serena Williams! WHat are u asking for, recognition? I agree we need more recognition.

    But, I dont really see all these black dudes just clamoring for Kardashian.It takes two to tango. I’m not the biggest Kardashian fan, I watch the show when its on, but I do enjoy the show, no doubt!

  • http://gravatar.com/saudasc saudasc

    I love this writer.

  • http://www.visakanv.com/blog visakanv

    By this logic, black girls with stereotypically “white” physical traits should get just as much attention and adulation as the Kardashians and white girls “gone black”. Is this the case? Ergo, your “unexpected” hypothesis does not adequately explain the situation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/SonOfBaldwin Robert Jones Jr

    Every heard of light-skinned privilege?

    Black women with white features, comparatively, ARE treated better and receive more “adulation” than black women with black features.

    That’s why Zoe Saldana is playing Nina Simone in the biopic and not someone that looks as black and Nina did.

    So your critique is ill-informed about the LONG history of colorism and Eurocentric blackness.

  • AJ

    Er. I think the point is that it’s hard to love yourself when society teaches you that you aren’t to be loved. That message is significant regardless of whether or not you personally have a healthy self esteem

  • kklipse

    By what logic….the false equivalence kind?

  • http://www.facebook.com/JinaKaye Jorjina Amefia-Koffi

    Bad logic. Angelina, with her thick lips, is considered hotter and sexist than Jennifer Aniston. Black girls that look “White” are not as “exotic” as White girls who look “Black”.

  • Mina

    Black women in hollywood are invisible. YOUR argument is invalid. And whatt shade of black are we speaking. You act like all black women are treated equal and they are not so the only thing inadequate her is your naive and uninformed view of how black women

  • http://www.abww.wordpress.com Friday Foster

    Black women were displayed naked in Europe because of their posterior. Google Venus Hottentot.

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  • Charles
  • Jaye

    Why did you have to go there?! You really had to tell him about his status floating around?! So sad…

  • Scott

    I know I’m late… But I love this article! Well said!

    “Pop”ular culture loves all Black expressions, but disregards and often has disdain for the core culture, history and struggle of Afrikan/Black people.

    At the expense of vulgarity, Paul Mooney expressed this nasty trend in our society: “Everybody wanna be a ni**a, but don’t nobody wanna be a ni**a!”

    Good day.

  • Interesting

    Now this is a good article and discussion. I hate I missed it. It corresponds with one of my previous discussion with friends.

    One area in which we have discussed is the acceptance of white women with black beauty. The best of two worlds (being a white woman with black features) overrides any reckless behavior from their past. We accept that fact men like what they like. It is what it is. However, what we didn’t like is how a beautiful black woman with the same beauty and features as a Kim is treated differently or bypassed. If she had the past of a Kim, a man is quicker to not commit to a black woman because of her past. A man may sleep with her; however, he is less likely to marry this same woman because she is black with a “whorish” reputation. I’m not saying Kim is one, honestly, I would not know. Once it was revealed Kanye was dating Kim, this was our discussion how he wouldn’t have committed to a black woman with such a past. If they break-up in the future, another black man will pick up where he left off from.

    Really our bottom line was the saying “you can’t make a hoe into a housewife” doesn’t apply to white women or any other non-black woman with black features. When it comes to this truth, we all agree black women should only date men who are attracted to them. Make sure you are his type…because any other race with a black woman’s feature is discovered gold for some men. It is so preferred that nothing else matters in the end. Really, I am hoping black women don’t venture after those men with these preferences.
    We always discuss P-diddy and his ex Kim. It was such a big difference (from what we had seen and read) in how he treated J-Lo in comparison to Kim. Those discussion were years ago, now we do not devote any attention to their choices. However, I will share this article.

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  • mm

    This was written before the Miley Cyrus fiasco and the cluster@#$ that was the VMAS. This amazing article needs an addendum. Appropriation of black culture has been rampant in the past few months!

  • Naomi

    @mm appropiation of black culture has been rampant for years! And with the throwback to the 90′s trend, it seems like our past is coming back to haunt us. I love this article. I will most definitely forward to my friends.

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