Woman Fired For Not Allowing Transgender Woman Into Dressing Room Now Suing
On November 30, 27-year-old Macy’s employee Natalie Johnson took a stand. After spotting a transgender teen shopping for clothes with her friends in her San Antonio store, Johnson informed the customer that she couldn’t try on the items in the ladies’ dressing room because she was a man.
“I made sure to keep a close eye out on him because he was shopping for women’s clothing,” Johnson told local TV station, KSAT. ”I had to just straight forward tell him, ‘You’re a man,’ and of course that made him really got him steamed.”
Predictably, this snub upset the shopper and her friend, and it also violated Macy’s policy which allows shoppers to try on clothes in dressing rooms of the gender they identify with.
After telling her boss that she couldn’t comply with the policy because she believes “there are no transgenders in the world,” she was promptly fired. Now, Johnson has teemed up with the anti-LGBT group the Liberty Counsel and has filed a lawsuit with the Federal Employment Commission claiming Macy’s fired her on the basis of her religious beliefs. A member of the Houston Liberty Counsel ratcheted up the rhetoric even further and claimed Macy’s nondiscriminatory policy and “has essentially opened women’s dressing rooms to every man.”
Macy’s disagrees. Although it refused to comment on the specific case, the company released a statement saying, “Macy’s does not comment on personnel matters. At Macy’s, we recognize and appreciate the diversity of our customers and associates.”
Johnson hopes Macy’s changes its policy, but I’d wager she’ll be waiting a very long time in the unemployment line before that happens.
What do you think?
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Peace B
Thank you for your response. I really do appreciate being able to have civilized and enlightening exchanges on these comment boards. So, I’m glad we kept it totally civil.
Anyway, you said: “Also, if transgenders know that women are offended then why are they willing to offend?” Good question: my sense is that the alternative (having to use men’s rooms where they might actually face attack) is far worse, so it boils down to chooser the less crappy of two crappy situations. It’s a messed up situation to be in, huh.
Have a great day!
The last time I was in Macy’s (or any other non-discount clothing store, for that matter), the fitting room had individual, locking rooms for each customer–it’s not some big, open space where customers are walking around in states of undress. I’d never know who else was in there, in their private space, trying something on.
At the same time, the shared areas (generally where the 3-way mirror is) are not monitored in any way (usually not even staffed)–anyone could enter that space at any time; they wouldn’t have to pretend to be trying something on. This is just bigotry and a violation of her employer’s policy. She’s wasting the time and resources of the court system.
couldn’t have said it better myself :)
This is another ridiculous case. If she doesn’t agree with Macy’s code, she should have looked for another job, maybe one where they are discriminatory and ignorant. I’m with Macy’s on this one, “A person should be allowed to use the dressing room according to the gender they identify with.” It’ll save that person embarrassment because if he presents himself as a woman but is dressing in a man’s fitting room…come on now. People need to realize NO MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN, OTHERS ARE GOING TO BE JUST AS STRONG IN THEIR BELIEFS. In other words, just because you’re a Christian doesn’t mean your ideas and beliefs are the only correct ideas and beliefs.
I personally don’t have any problem with transgender people, and I’m a Christian. I do, however, have a problem with you thumbing your nose down at us. The woman is entitled to her opinion. This is America. However, I will say that certain actions lead me to believe that we are moving away from democracy. I think we’ve gotten just too politically correct. I also will say that fat people, and other religious believers are the biggest scapegoats in society. I say that as a fat woman who has read every hate-filled, fatphobic article that Clutch Magazine has written. I will be praying for you.
Piper: She is not ‘entitled’ to her opinion at her workplace if it is against her employer’s policy. I am glad she was canned.
@ Piper….there’s nothing wrong with being politically correct, liberal, feminist etc. These words have some how become “dirty” words. Politically correct is just having tolerance and acceptance towards others and whats so wrong with that? Besides some of the same people who aren’t showing kindness to others are the same people who swear up and down that they’re Christians. To treat others with kindness doesn’t mean you agree with everything they do or how they live their life; we should always walk in love.
YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT’S ON A PERSON’S MIND, I THINK MEN AND WOMEN SHOULD HAVE SEPARATE DRESSING ROOMS. SINCE THIS HAPPEN IWON’T SHOP AT MACY’S. IT USED TO BE A FAMILY STORE NOW GOD KNOWS WHAT THEY WILL DO.
I believe men and women should have separate dressing rooms. I will not shop at Macy’s if this is their policy. you never know what’s on a person agenda. People get offended when God is mentioned in any fashion, i get offended when I see a man dressed as a woman in the ladies dressing room.
completely unrelated (yall know I’m good for that). But I’m mad at homegirl’s scrunchies. HotMess
I used to work at this particular Macy’s in San Antonio and a similar thing happened to me. I worked in the dress department and a transgender person (a man who was in the process of becoming a woman) walked into the dressing room in my area. I ran over and informed him that this was a woman’s dressing room, he smiled sweetly and walked right on in. I called security, who saw this on camera, called the supervisor and the next thing I know, the head of security, my supervisor and the store’s operations manager were in my department. I was informed that Macy’s had a policy that transgender people were free to use any dressing room, men or women; they even informed everyone during the evening meeting for the night shift and the morning meeting the next day. Needless to say, I was taken aback. I don’t know if what department this lady worked in, if it was the same supervisor I had ( I haven’t talked to any of my friends who still work there to find out more information). I didn’t get in trouble and unlike this lady, I wasn’t fired but I have never forgotten that incident and when I heard this on the local news this morning, it reminded me of what happened to me. Even though I no longer work for Macy’s, it boggles my mind about this incident. I wish her the best.
Really? You should be ashamed of yourself. I don’t know if you’re aware of what’s going on in the world, but people are becoming more tolerant of LGBT folk and people like you are only harming this progress. You are so UnAmerican. If you choose to remain backwards and spineless, I suggest swimming from Miami and Cuba..hopefully you drown on the way
Wait, so… what “happened” to you? You left out the part where you became a victim.
@Sophia, First of all, I am not intolerant. I was simply stating that I worked for this same store at the same location, a similar situation happened to me. And shame on you for saying you hope I drown…your response was downright ugly and uncalled for.
@John, I was not victimized by the incident.
Apparently I didn’t make myself clear. Again, when I heard this on the news the other morning, I told my boyfriend about the incident that happened to me. When I was told what Macy’s policy was regarding transgendered people, I didn’t freak or preach or anything…it (their policy) is what it is. As a matter of fact, the guy came to my counter after he tried on his clothes, and I apologized to him because I didn’t know. He was kind, told me not to worry that he encounters this situation all the time. What boggled my mind was the fact that I had seen gay men who were cross dressers who went into the men’s dressing room. In my ignorance (yes, I admit it) and though I could tell he was undergoing gender re-assignment, he still seemed more male than female and I figured that the person I encountered in dresses that day would have gone into the men’s dressing room.
I simply wanted to share my experience. I have commented on Clutch many times but after being so brutally attacked and wished ill will, in the future I will take pre-caution before commenting.
@Sophia, I am not intolerant. And for you to wish me ill will is ignorant, mean, cruel…your comment that you hope I drown was downright ugly and uncalled for.
@John, I was not victimized.
Apparently I didn’t make myself clear. When this happened to me, I was unaware that he was transgendered, I thought he was a gay man who was a cross dresser. Usually when that has happened, the men usually go to the men’s department and use the dressing room. It wasn’t until security talked to him and found out that he was transgendered that I was informed of the store’s policy. I apologized to him and he was nice about it, said he encountered situations like that all the time. I didn’t get mad, didn’t get upset, didn’t get preachy; I was freaked because I thought it was a man going into the ladies dressing room.
@Sophia, last time I checked, the 1st amendment states that Americans have freedom of expression, one of which is freedom of speech. You called me unAmerican, even if I disagreed with Macy’s policy, it is my right as an American to do so. Just like you have the right to wish me harm. Just for the record, I don’t have a problem with Macy’s policy, transgendered people or LGBT. I was simply sharing my experience. Nothing more. Obviously, you are angry about something other than the topic at hand, I suggest that you heed your own advice and get your life in order.
wait a second… how come little boys are allowed in the women’s restrooms then? obviously not babies but i see like 8 and 9 year old boys going with their mom to the women’s restroom.
can people kick them out?
thats a stupid comment. very stupid.
Yeah, very ignorant!
…another reason why I hate public restrooms.
I agree though, an 8 or 9 year old boy is too old to still be accompanying his mother to the women’s restroom. You rarely (if ever) see men taking their daughters that age into the men’s room.
I know a few places near me that have attempted to address this issue by creating “family” restrooms which contain slightly larger stalls and allow parents to bring their opposite sex child in with them, without annoying other adults…
Gee, guess Macy’s never heard of “sensitivity training” for their employees instead of outright firing someone for this move. You got people making racist and sexist remarks in the workplace who are never fired. Sounds more like them trying to avert a lawsuit and she was a low-level enough employee to take the fall.
Did you read the part where she told her employer ‘she couldn’t comply with the policy because she believes “there are no transgenders in the world,”’?
She was beyond sensitivity training; she could have also been fired for insubordination for all we know.
So any man wearing a wig, women’s clothing, and makeup should be allowed into a women’s fitting room or restroom? How does one decide if dude is a transsexual or a pervert? Or people are not allowed to decide and just let dude in?
Why should women be forced to compromise their safety?
@B, why do you say close minded black people get on your nerves, why single out black people. Although i agree that the woman was wrong i dont get your way of thinking, why compare transgender people and black people what about black transgender people.
anywho Mikela123 i kind of agree with what you said. if it was a genuine transgender person then i have no problem at all with them but what would happen if it wasnt a tg person but i perv.
Arlette, I singled out black folks because I guess, as a black person, I care more about what we think than about what others think. I’m more interested in the intellectual and spiritual progress of black folks I guess because I’m black and therefore have more invested in the progress of black people. That’s simplistic, but it’s the truth. And to be clear, I can’t stand close-minded folks in general. But this is a black magazine site, and the woman employee was black so I felt the need to be specific. Anyway, I agree with your comment. In no way do I mean to separate black from transgender (because there are many black transgender people), but I think it’s necessary for black folks who are not transgender or queer to understand the similarities between black struggles (historically) and LGBT struggles. As a queer black woman I know that my race, gender, and sexuality are completely inseparable in my identity. Hope that clarifies….
Also, I agree with your comment!
Maybe I’m confused but biologically speaking, there is a difference between a man and a woman, regardless to who you choose to identify with. When you are born, what does the doctor look for to verify your gender?….Wait for it……I’m guess that most of the people rooting for her dismissal are those who have an mental issue of thing that they are “a woman trapped in a man’s body”, homosexual, or whatever. Everyone speaks about being opened minded but truthfully speaking, everyone is opened to something & closed to another. If it is something that we are doing & what to feel justified for doing it…then everyone needs to be opened minded. If it is something that we don’t, then it is closed. All these pseudo- intellects tickle me. Bottom line, if Macy’s feels that way, they need to integrate all of the dress rooms period! There is a reason why things are separate. Now as for the man who “thinks” he is a woman, with all due respect, we a human beings have a choice of attire before you leave your home. Choose carefully. You are responsible for your own actions, not the world. The mind is the most powerful thing on your body, use it responsibly.
I’mma need you to look up the term “intersexed” and come back and tell us if ANYTHING is cut and dried about gender and biology.
I agree with you 100%. If the store feels that way, they need to make the dressing rooms genderless that way no one is discriminated against no matter what gender you identify with or what you believe. And it amazes me that everyone wants to identify with what animal behavior same time they want to argue over what’s humane and what’s not. Or what’s civilized and what’s not. Goes to show you that we are all free to choose.
BTW, the similarities between sexual orientation and race struggles do not correlate. Even medical science, psychology, and biology admit that there is NO significant evidence that anyone is born that way. In this world we have many choices, your sexual orientation is one of them (for anyone who disagrees scientifically prove me wrong…not just with case studies that suggest, undisputed proof…) on the contrary, your skin color is not. Everything for the clothes your wear, the career you choose, the car you drive, the person you date is a “Choice”…to say that you don”t have a choice, nullifies and voids your ability to think…Are you brain dead? It all starts in the mind & flows from there.
@Faith
There is proof that your sexual orientation is not a choice. I’m not sure what outdated book you’re looking at. I’m gonna need you to check yourself– over 400 species of animals (including humans) practice homosexuality and other forms of deviance. You’re really deceiving yourself if you think we’re different.
Sorry for the typos and numerous grammatical errors. I think you catch my drift though!
This reminds me of the pharmacists that refuse to give birth control to women because it is against their religion. You follow the rules and policies of the people that pay you and if your personal beliefs won’t allow you to do so then you should not be working there period.
As for the customer, I’m sorry that she was mistreated and I can see how hurtful that is. But as a woman I don’t want to share a dressing rooms with anyone with a biological male body. Yes, transgender men may feel like women but since there is no way to examine their gender identity and you would just be going based off of clothing, I foresee it as a safety issue. There are tons of perverts out their that would use this loop hole to their benefit not only endangering women and possibly children but giving a bad rap to the LGBT community as a result bc we all know they would jump to conclusions and blame it on someone from the LGBT community rather just the pervert. They should either have male bodied people use one dressing room and female bodied people use the other OR better yet have male, female, and unisex dressing rooms.
I think I am very accepting of other peoples lifestyles because frankly, I don’t care but I am not going expose myself to a potentially unsafe situation and violate my right to privacy just to make others happy. That doesn’t make me ignorant or bigoted or unsympathetic or hateful. It just makes me a realist who is not going to sacrifice her safety for the sake of what some would deem political correct.
I worked for Macy’s too at one point and what blows my mind is the employees lack of customer service. It doesn’t matter what she believes or what the person looked like (gender, race etc.) if they are shopping for women’s clothing and wish to try the clothing on they go to the nearest dressing room. Period. It is the employees job to make sure the customer is satisfied and comfortable. There is no room for beliefs when you work in customer service only policy, professionalism, and outstanding SERVICE. The employee was wrong and I’m glad she was fired. I hope she loses her lawsuit and finds a job working for a place that supports her belief system. But don’t expect Macy’s to change their diversity policy, which took long enough to get where it is, just because she doesn’t agree.
I thought the employee’s statements were a little weird.
“I made sure to keep a close eye out on him because he was shopping for women’s clothing,” Johnson told local TV station, KSAT. ”I had to just straight forward tell him, ‘You’re a man,’ and of course that made him really got him steamed.”
So based on her statements, a man is not allowed in the women’s department because they are men. Also, was it really her responsibility to tell a transgendered person what sex they are? The last time I looked, Macy’s was in the business in selling clothes, etc and not telling people who walk in their store what sex they are. Where was the customer service? Did she say, hello, how are you today, can I assist you with selecting outfits? No, it was her mission in that moment in time to bust that person’s bubble. As far as men in the dressing room, in Macy’s in NYC several years ago they had male employees in women’s dressing room counting the number of outfits you had as you entered and left the dressing room. I thought it was different but they were in the front of the dressing room and did not go in the back to remove clothes or anything like that.
I am from Los Angeles and I have grown up around LGBT people my who life. I think I am very tolerant. I do have a problem about safety. There are cross-dressers (and yes I know the difference between cross dressers and transgender, but the situation can look the same, a man shopper for women’s clothing, trying them on) who are not gay. These men sometimes rape and victimize women. I think that a “neutral” dressing room can be added, one in between the two departments that ANYONE can use, its not labeled. When I see situations like this, my religious belief system has nothing to do with my concern for safety. However I know that this concern will go untouched until someone gets hurt. A restaurant implemented a single stall neutral restroom because a cross dressed man raped a woman in the women’s restroom. I’d hate to see something like that happen in a Macy’s dressing room for a happy medium to be reached.
I completely agree with you. When I read the article, this was the first thing that came to my mind. I actually thought that was her reasoning behind it. I can relate to the similar experience you describe. When I was in high school about 15 years ago my mother and I went to the mall. We went to the restroom in one of the larger department stores. (Ironically Macy’s bought the chain out). When we walked in the women’s restroom there was a transgender elderly man in the bathroom. He didn’t look like he had transitioned, just like an old man in a dress. We’re from a fairly conservative place so I wasn’t expecting that. We were just jarred by it and left the bathroom. We didn’t complain to managment but since I was going to college in a major city, later on my mother warned me to always be careful going to public restrooms by myself and leave if anything felt weird. I don’t think she was being homophobic but as a woman, you have to think about safety.
Good that she was fired. I hope her suit gets dismissed.
I fully believe that this person is using religion as justification for simple bigotry. Anyone would know that choosing a statement to make to HR at Macy’s, where she’s appealing and especially the news using religion sounds much better (and fewer can look at her as she really is) than “I have a personal distaste for people who look different and I used my badge of authority to harass someone who made me uncomfortable.”
From what I understand, the original language and context of the Bible has no problems per se with it.
Tragic and sad.
It is flat out dangerous for women for men to be allowed in their dressing rooms. I will not be shopping at Macys any more if that is their policy.
As a transgendered person myself, I routinely use women’s dressing rooms in stores. But the ones I use are individual and private. It isn’t possible to be voyeuristic in them even if that was your purpose. It’s not mine. Just as in using women’s restrooms: all I want to do in one is use the toilet and sink. I can’t speak for all trans folks — I could imagine a straight man wearing women’s clothes and using a ladies’ dressing room or bathroom to try and get cheap thrills. But I think it far safer for someone who sees and dresses themself as female — regardless of their genitalia — to use female rather than male facilities, where there would be a good chance of their getting raped. And as for store policies — how many people know in advance what they are?