LGBT Rights vs. the Civil Rights Movement, Are They the Same?

by Kirsten West Savali

Photo via Consider magazine

Let’s call a spade a spade.

There are many people across Black America that have a problem with homosexuality.  And by Black I mean descendants of African slaves, first generation African-Americans, Cablasian or whatever particular Black applies to avoid the “we are not a monolith” argument.

Initially, the criticism stemmed directly from the Christian Bible — or rather, how people chose to interpret the “Good Book.” Hidden beneath tales of murder, rape, adultery, incest and all other sorts of sordid straight sins, most evangelicals leeched unto a little scripture that was directed towards priests in Leviticus that states “thou shall not lay with mankind as womankind.”

Then a strange thing happened.

People began to think. Discussions began to rage on not only the separation of church and state, but the validity of the argument that homosexuality was even addressed significantly enough to be considered a “sin” in the first place. And even if it were addressed, what in the hell did that have to do with whether or not the LGBT community should be tarred, feathered, marked with a scarlet “G” and thrown unprotected into a vicious court of public opinion?

Nothing.

So as the religious argument continues to fray at the seams, a new tact is gaining traction; a transparent tact to be sure, but one that is spoken with all the venom and narrow-minded indignation of the Tea Party shouting angrily that they “want their America back”:

“The LGBT community is trying to piggyback on the struggles of descendants of African slaves to further their own agenda.”

That’s right. It has nothing to do with the fact that there has always been an underlying aversion to homosexuality within our communities. Well, at least of the male variety because the war cries are oddly muted when threesomes and lesbianism is discussed. For some reason, in this patriarchal society the male fantasy of two women doing the horizontal mambo while an eager man watches and/or participates trumps any aversion to gay — but that’s another article. Homophobes would like us to believe that it’s a matter of cultural treachery. The LGBT community dares to equate the fact that they are ostracized, not afforded equal rights under the law, bullied, assaulted, killed, mocked, belittled and treated like second-class citizens to the atrocities of the Jim and Jane Crow South.

Even more disturbing, what happens when gays and lesbians over-run society and the eugenics plot to kill Black babies is complete?! Never mind that for more gay people to be born, it stands to reason that more straight people would have to have sex, canceling out the entire homosexuality will end the human race argument.

How dare they, right?

Wrong.

Yes, we had the Civil Rights Movement but we do not hold the patent on civil rights. Secondly, there is no separate LGBT community when some of our brothers and sisters are included in the group. Does a person automatically become “them” once their sexual orientation is revealed? I have tried and tried to understand this argument, but there are just too many holes in it. Just as slave marriages were once illegal and miscegenation laws prevented inter-racial marriages, it is equally archaic to deny two adults their civil liberties based on nothing more than religious conjecture and pain ownership.

It’s disturbing to see people use the same book that has been used to justify slavery through the Curse of Canaan to justify discrimination toward the LGBT community. It’s pathetic to watch people use the same court system that has marginalized and enslaved us as an excuse for oppressing people because of the circumstances their birth.

Is the battle that the LGBT community is facing on religious, political and cultural fronts equal to what Black people in America had to face and continue to face?

No, but it cannot and should not be minimized by that fact.

Injustice is injustice, whether due to the color of our skin , the content of our character or sexual orientation.

Let’s not be on the wrong side of history on this one.

  • seventeen

    It is logically erroneous to contrast or compare sexual preferance to racial origin…any number of my voyeuristic tendencies come to a complete halt at homosexual relations, whereas I will never be able to shield my eyes from Black skin – short of becoming blind, that is.

    Even if I were a blind Black person, my reflection in the mirror would be percieved by those around me, thus awakening “The Watcher” within, lol

    On the other hand, a homosexual person would have to explicitly express thier desire for ‘social justice’ in correlation with the struggle that the average Black person faces daily.

    Blacks and the LGBT community do possibly have some kind of relevance with each other way, way, WAY off in hypothetical land, but not in reality.

  • LADreaming86

    I don’t have much to say about this issue, because my interest in politics has significantly lessened over the years, but what I can say is that, I definitely do not think LGBT Rights and Civil Rights are one and the same.

  • chanela

    no they are not the same. you only know someone is gay if they tell you. you can look at me from a mile away and tell that i’m black.

  • http://www.cocoareport.com Cocoa Report

    It’s a movement within itself, just like the Cilvil Rights movement,Women Rights movement and any other movement throughout history. I feel like they use the Civil Rights Movement as an example of LGBT rights as a ploy for more of a division then empowerment. Since most blacks have conservative opinions towards the LGBT community people know that that don’t most us don’t want to associate the two together. African-Americans are not the only minority that had a movement in the history of the United States but yet the Civil Rights Movement is the only one that it is compared to.

    LGBT rights is a civil rights issue and a movement within itself.

  • http://pervertedalchemist.blogspot.com Perverted Alchemist

    “Yes, we had the Civil Rights Movement but we do not hold the patent on civil rights.”

    Maybe not, but when you talk about they issue of civil rights, it’s almost synonymous with the Black race.

    ‘Secondly, there is no separate LGBT community when some of our brothers and sisters are included in the group.”

    Try telling that to the Black churches and community leaders, LMAO!!!!

    “Does a person automatically become “them” once their sexual orientation is revealed?”

    Depending on the attitude of friends, family and close associates in their circle…yeah…

  • http://pervertedalchemist.blogspot.com Perverted Alchemist

    *but when you talk about the issue of civil rights…

  • Roxanne

    What does your sexual preference have to do with race? Two totally different things and I think the LGBT are definitely piggy-backing off of the Civil Rights movement. I will be ostracized more for the color of my skin than for my sexual preference. No one knows who what sex I prefer just from looking at me. What blacks suffered for years at the hands of whites is NO COMPARISON at all.

    I also find it disturbing how many from the LGBT community attempt to force people to accept their beliefs and lifestyles. They’re definitely getting like PETA now and focus more on the wrong things (aka Roland Martin’s tweets) and not the bigger issues (the young man who was beaten in ATL).

  • http://lovefro.wordpress.com Jay

    No, they are not the same….gay’s in the West (at least) are not/have not been oppressed or enslaved in anyway, and treated as second class citizens. In fact many, in the UK, hold influential positions, and in general, their life style is on par with those that are heterosexual, apart from marital rights, and here will always someone hating in you because you are different, whether, straight/gay, or of colour. So their plight cannot be compared, with the civil rights movement for many reasons beyond what I have stated.

    But lets get one thing straight, when christians speak out against homosexuality, it’s not simply because of the act of ‘anal’ sex, rather, that this type of sexual engagement is a purposeless, barren, enterprise, especially when God is a God of purpose and fruitfulness. Equally, heterosexual sex can also be wrong, if it is also set outside of divine parameters, i,e marriage. Why it isn’t frowned upon is because in general, it can be a fruitful exercise…(yes there are always exceptions) , but homosexuality, cannot evolve in any way, and cannot reflect God as creator. Although God is love, love without purpose, without, boundaries/parameters, can be a very dangerous thing – gay or straight. Therefore, love cannot be the sole reason for any type of sexual engagement.

  • http://musedmagonline.com Drew-Shane

    I think many movements try to mirror the Civil Rights movement because it’s “success.” Nothing but rhetoric. Either way a group is/was oppressed and denied basic rights (blacks, women, gays). I hate to read the ignorance of BLACK people not seeing the issue wrong with injustice when we as people experienced the same. Hopefully, we can stop comparing the LGBT movement to the Civil Rights movement, so Coloreds won’t get upset. We get it- blacks own any type of movement. We’ve come so far as a people…

    Good post!

  • OSHH

    NO it is not!

  • Priceless34

    You cant even compare the two. At point in time we werent even considered human. Laws had to be passed for us to be considered citizens and not property.

  • Natalie

    No they aren’t and I find it extremely disrespectful.

  • Ms. Information

    It is NOT the same fight!!!!!!!!!!!! Even as a general rule right now, gay people have a higher income per capita than black people do…400 years of slavery, segregation and intentional systematic destruction supercedes their fight.

  • Mimi

    As do I Natalie. I get so tired of being labeled as homophobic because I do not believe that black people’s struggles and LGBT struggles are the same. I am not homophobic. I do not care what anyone does in their bedrooms as long as its not hurting anyone and everyone is of age. What I do NOT like is when some group, be it LGBT or PETA, try to ride on the coattails of the civil rights movement and compare their struggle to that one. It is highly offensive to me and I ALWAYS speak up when I see that happening. I can’t stand the “_____________ is the new black” saying and signs as well. I think the overwhelming majority of people do not want the LGBT community to be discriminated against, and they deserve the same rights as any other human being, but they do NOT deserve to compare their struggle to ours, to ride on the coattails of my forefathers hard work or anything else like that.

  • Tonton Michel

    The problem here is that someone is always trying to attach the two very different movements together by the hip as if they are trying to guilt trip black people into supporting gay rights. Your going to get a resistance to that tactic when you go that route, to me it is a distraction from the issue of gay rights. One can learn from the other and draw inspiration from it but to make comparisons is like comparing apples to oranges. Unless your light enough to pass you cant hide the fact that your black from the world, but you can hide the fact that you are gay even though you should not have to. People need support it because it is the right thing to do.

  • Ravi

    While I’m with you on some aspects, your analysis of the religious arguments are off base. Leviticus chapter 18 was not directed at just clergy. the first couple verses of the chapter clearly say that Moses was to share this law with all of the Israelites. The vast majority of the prohibitions in this chapter concern incest. There is no textual argument that can be made to suggest that gay sex is not a sin. It’s simply not debatable. Notice though that the text applies directly to gay sex. the chapter is about the different types of sexual relations that are prohibited. It is not about who we are attracted to, it’s about how we proceed from that attraction. Being gay and having gay sex aren’t the same and the bible isn’t so clear on the former.

    now some people choose to disregard Leviticus, but there is no question about the intent of that particular bit of text. I must question such a self serving abandonment of any portion of the text. Recognize that the prohibitions on incest are also found in that chapter. Any argument concerning the lack of validity of that chapter is an argument for the lack of biblical prohibition on incest as well. So does that mean the Christians should back off of the mother lovers as well?

  • Slide

    Wow. I am saddened by these comments. It reveals the hypocrisy of many Black Americans in believe their experience oppression in this country is the only legitimate experience of oppression.

    I walk down the street I am a woman, I am Black, I am lesbian. Those identities do not separate at any point. I walk down the street with my girlfriend and all of these identities are visible. I am subjected to verbal harassment, abuse and altercations by men disrespecting my relationship. But I guess I should expect and furthermore accept that type of treatment due to being lesbian, right? But you all would be outraged if that was due to being Black or female right? okay.

    LGBT people make up a good percentage of the Black population. That is something the Black community will have to come to terms with or continue to support the oppression of members of their own community.

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  • http://www.BlasianBytch.com N’jaila Rhee

    The Gay Movement has a long history of keeping it’s face white and male, marginalizing and silencing women and people of color. There’s a lot of Gay Black people that face the double bind of homophobia and racism. When the Gay Rights Movement says things like “Gay is the New Black” I think its a slap in the face to gay people of color. You can use our struggle but not our faces to further an agenda that will continue to discriminate against non whites , lesbians , bi-sexual women and trans men and women.

  • kjean

    You hit dead on the nail. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  • Slide

    excellent point

  • Cia

    Race/ethnicity and sexual orientation are not the same but creating a society where discrimination is minimized will certainly benefit us all. I think that the movement to improve rights and decrease discrimination regardless of the basis should be a united front. It is wrong to fight to end disparate treatment based on race but then turn a blind-eye or just be neutral when it is based on sexual orientation/gender/whatever. “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” MLK “Letter from Birmingham Jail

  • steve

    who ever will say its the same,must have never read the history of black people.

    except for the right to get married ( something I support), tell me when did especially white gays have their testicles cut off and then set on fire? where are the gay ghettos? when do white gays get pulled over for driving while gay? who face redlining and loan discrimination, who get denied more for jobs based on being black or being gay?

    Truman Capote even if he was gay was allowed to sit in the front of bus or eat a lunch counter while James Baldwin would have been lynched if he attempted that .

    I will stand with my black LGBT family for their rights but im no fool and I know the White LGBT are not our allies

  • LN

    I believe that gay rights are just as important as civil rights. And I think that the heart of both movements is very much the same. There are people today who are killed for being gay, just like there are people today who are killed for being black.

    Unfortunately, I think both sides engage in ‘oppression Olympics’ to try to compete about who has it worst. It’s very counterproductive. And I also think that the reason that there is so much tension on both sides is that black people tend to discriminate against gays, and the gay community is insanely segregated, and tends to discriminate against blacks. So, socially, they’re kind of like ‘natural enemies’.

    I live in Chicago and there was a huge fiasco a few months back because the Boystown neighborhood (the gay hotspot) was kicking out the gay youth of color who were migrating there from other parts of the city. They claimed the youth were too violent and disruptive, but the visual was horrible. Wealthy, white gay men, kicking out poor black and hispanic gay youth. It really highlighted how deep the race problem is in the gay community.

    So all that to say, both movements are important, but I don’t see them coming together like they should.

  • steve

    please help me out , HOW ARE WHITE GAYS OPPRESSED IN THIS COUNTRY? except for the right to marry, give me one way in which you can compare what they go through with what black people continue to face in this country?

  • LN

    @Steve Gay school children are regularly bullied to the point of suicide, gays are still murdered for being gay, gay culture is the butt of ridicule, scorn and disgust in a lot of mainstream media and, obviously, gays aren’t allowed to marry.

    But I’m not going to sit here and act like this is a contest (like I said in my first comment). There is struggle on both sides. How does it help us to argue about who struggles more?

  • http://pervertedalchemist.blogspot.com Perverted Alchemist

    Hey, you may have a point there. I noticed that it’s a lot of gay White people were the ones who were equating the gay movement to the Civil Rights Movement- but when it comes to helping out gay people of color, they are nowhere to be found.

  • steve

    the question was oppression family, all children are bullied, the child that just shot those 5 kids in ohio was bullied, hispanics then black leads america in who is gets attacked for being “different” not gays, gay are mocked in media? would argue that since they have popular shows like “modern family” on that higlight gay couples and are more open and active then anytime in american history.

    lets talk oppression such as who get demonized more the black male or gay male? who get targeted for subprime loans more blacks or gays? who get denied loans more a college educated black person or a white gay person? who get harassed and killed by police more gays or blacks? . i could easily go on.

    It not a contest , it about putting things in their proper place and perspective

  • sli

    I like your comment.

  • sli

    No, they are not the same.

  • Blaze

    Its not the same!!!! you cant look at some one and know that their gay they have to state it, and they can deny it. I am Black when you see me I’m black I could tell you I’m korean, or Latino, or Caucasian but you would know I was lying

  • apple

    NO THEY ARE NOT
    i hate when people say this, i hear no one saying Gay is the NEW JEW.. oh no!people will die if anyone say
    skin color is not like an orientation! you can not hide your skin color when convenient or safe, but no one has to know your gay!
    and gays have never gone through what my ancestors or other enslaved races has gone through.. gays when you are being enslaved for 40-400 years while being genocide,family torn apart,being beat into submission,being hosed,crosses burned in your yard,being lynched and being beat by the police..YOU LET ME KNOW.
    i’m tired of black being the measuring tool for how “struggle” is when you can’t even define it right.

  • soldier

    Yeah you are totally right, they don’t deserve the inalienable rights of the constitution until they have met the requirements you set forth. In fact, nobody should have any rights until their ancestry has at least gone through slavery. I think it might even be in the constitution. Besides, the civil rights movement wasn’t about throwing the constitution in the governments face and telling them they are wrong and need to give rights to everybody, it was about only giving rights to those who have actually been discriminated against in a context that fits your standards. All the others haven’t even earned their inalienable rights!

  • apple

    i have heard/and read blog post on this from gay people of color for being excluded or hated. I have seen gay black bloggers run successful blogs and then when people ask for a picture and they find out they are not white, they get all kind of hate mail/comments filled with racial slurs

  • Alexandra

    A lot of people clearly see that both movements are not the same no matter how many similarities there are, & I agree with a few of these comments. I support the Gay rights movement, but it irritates me when people desperately try to equalize the struggle with racial discrimination. Doing so only minimizes the plights and achievements of both groups.

    Heterosexuals are not hosing down gays, sicking dogs on them, barring them from attending schools or assigning specialized public areas (LGBT Only?). The popularized gov’t battle is with marriage equality. Criminal action is always taken against those who commit hate crimes against LGBT individuals, especially if they’re non-Black I might add (those Black girls at McD’s, Jose Sucuzhanay) and the amount of support from non-LGBT folks is strong. Those are things that took years for Blacks to accomplish, as no one but Blacks cared when others were attacked, lynched or raped.

    Gays face a social stigma, yes. They don’t have the marriage right in most of the US, yes. They are a minority, yes. But their movement is something I can never equate with skin color discrimination/devaluation. Sexuality can be hidden (by choice) and there are countless stories of Gays and Lesbians that have overcome this common occurrence, better known as ‘coming out of the closet’.

  • Nicole

    As a queer person I’m continually disgusted with the white mainstream LGBT movements appropriation of the civil rights movement. It is not ok to utilize a people’s historical (and current, racism still exists) struggle as a means to get some attention. It also whitewashes the work of MANY multiracial queers past and present who are fighting for survival and community change. However, previous comments of not being able to tell if someone is gay therefore they do not experience the same struggles or random violence, denies the multiple struggles that LGBTQ people of color face, especially those who are visibly gender non conforming. Trans women of color experience extremely high rates of violence, police harassment, unjust incarceration and homelessness-issues might I add are not talked about amongst white LGBT people who do the movement appropriation. My point is that we need to respect history and movements, learn from them and while critiquing the mainstream LGBT movement for using the civil rights movement as a means of agenda advancement and shock value, lets not completely let the ignorance blind us from the real and multiple struggles queer people experience.

  • Greg

    Again, if the merits of your case is so outstanding,

    why pimp the Civil Rights Movement,

    impotent confidence?

    And to do so of a population which isn’t supportive of your agenda.

  • paula

    There is nothing you can say to convince me that Civil Rights Movement is the same as LGBT Movement! I understand that the LGBT community wants the same rights as every one else but that is not possible. I’m being honest! I do not want to see two men coming to PTA meetings. It is not right in God’s eyes and I don’t know how again to explain it. I wish that people would understand that God did not create people that way. Its a learned lifestyle.

  • Alexandra

    There are exceptions, specifically if you’re by stereotyped by your dress style, mannerisms, speech, etc; or being subjected someones offensive ‘gaydar’.

  • Greg

    Also of note with LGBT and “pimping” the Civil Rights Movement,

    The Civil Rights Movement isn’t their first co-opting of another groups meme.

    The Feminist were just willing landowners, nay absolute cheerleaders.

    Cage Matches you’ll never see:

    The Women’s Movement VS. LGBT….

  • Annie

    This article is great. I don’t believe that the modern LGBTQ movement is the same as the Civil Rights Movement for many reasons. What I do believe is that the author is saying that people forget that the bible and organized religion has been used in the same way it is being used now, to prevent people from attaining rights afforded to all people.
    Lets be real, you thump god being all knowing and all loving and all that, but then you go around hating on people and saying the way they live is nasty. Please. All Y’all out there, I’m sure no one wants to be a pariah of their community; to have the person they love not be able to sit at their bedside as they pass on, to have their children taken away from them, to have their assets they shared with their love go to someone else because their relationship is not valid in the eyes of the law. Oh, and just cuz you don’t want something doesn’t mean that it won’t happen. You’re just playing into the hands of bigotry and need to take a serious look at your values (if that’s what you call them).

    This article is saying that the same way black people where treated as less than, queer people are also. However, as a queer black woman, it’s a whole nother ball game. So please, you want to be a good christian, stop putting other people down. If you want to take the bibal literally, you can’t pick and choose which of your gods words you’re gonna follow and which you’re gonna ignore.

  • Annie

    This article is great. I don’t believe that the modern LGBTQ movement is the same as the Civil Rights Movement for many reasons. What I do believe is that the author is saying that people forget that the bible and organized religion has been used in the same way it is being used now, to prevent people from attaining rights afforded to all people.
    Lets be real, you thump god being all knowing and all loving and all that, but then you go around hating on people and saying the way they live is nasty. Please. All Y’all out there, I’m sure no one wants to be a pariah of their community; to have the person they love not be able to sit at their bedside as they pass on, to have their children taken away from them, to have their assets they shared with their love go to someone else because their relationship is not valid in the eyes of the law. Oh, and just cuz you don’t want something doesn’t mean that it won’t happen. You’re just playing into the hands of bigotry and need to take a serious look at your values (if that’s what you call them).

    This article is saying that the same way black people where treated as less than, queer people are also. However, as a queer black woman, it’s a whole nother ball game. So please, you want to be a good christian, stop putting other people down. If you want to take the bible literally, you can’t pick and choose which of your gods words you’re gonna follow and which you’re gonna ignore.

  • LN

    @Steve Martin Luther King himself said that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. And in addition to working to de-segregate America, he was vocal in his opposition to the Vietnam war and speaking out on behalf of the American poor. His desire for justice and civil rights went BEYOND the black community.

    I don’t understand how or why black people feel it benefits them to be “stingy” with civil rights. It’s not consistent with the roots of the civil rights movement.

    Maybe it’s not fair for gays to say that gay is the new black. Because they are separate struggles. But I stand by my original point that both movements are very similar and can partner.

    If you want to sit here and talk about who struggles more, that’s up to you. I still don’t see the point in that line of discussion.

  • African Queen

    I agree 100%! & its about time someone wrote it so eloquently well! Thank You Ms. Savali! I shall be passing on this article.
    This has def been a hot debate topic, but I must say…many (not all) black Americans have a serious patent on Civil Rights…as though Martin Luther King’s speech was strictly for Black people. People, get over it, Gay people are a prominent target for discrimination whether you like it or not. It is not okay that people are attacked, beaten, killed, harassed, etc. simply because their sexual preference offends us. And asking them to live a secret life in fear of discrimination by covering up their true identities is senseless. Have we learned nothing from brothers on the down low LMAO??? (& then we wonder why) Also, to reference the Bible in the hopes of proving why homosexuality is wrong is degrading to Christianity. Not even a sinless virgin has the right to choose passages and stories in the Bible they do not agree with and cast stones. If gay people disgust you, simply look away. How else did racist white people escape blacks? However, Gay is the New Black is an offensive phrase in itself..lol anyone that takes pride in any new black is simply illiterate…my black is beautiful and can never be reinvented into another color or struggle. But side note, as black people why do we hold such a strong hold on our color…i think that its a sign of low confidence. I will proudly say that I am more than just a Black woman…and I believe my ancestors fought for me to be seen for my talents and intelligence versus color alone. Regardless, Gay truly is the next stage of the Civil Rights movement. Any fight for equality is. Gay people are tired of being judged because their gay and being judged because they are gay…plain and simple.

  • Greg

    “Please. All Y’all out there, I’m sure no one wants to be a pariah of their community; to have the person they love not be able to sit at their bedside as they pass on, to have their children taken away from them, to have their assets they shared with their love go to someone else because their relationship is not valid in the eyes of the law.”

    You mean like the FATHERS of America and especially the Black community.

  • Nicole

    I can’t hide that Im black but a LGBT person can hide that their homosexual.
    Hmm….are they the same?!

  • African Queen

    lol Isn’t that why our mothers taught us that if we can’t say anything nice, then don’t say anything at all? I completely understand that it may disgust you to see gay people and you have every right to feel the way you do. But what your stating is simply your personal preference. Its like me saying “I can’t stand to see overweight people, it is a grotesque sight!” In no way do I reference the true physical or emotional pain this causes me or anyone around me…by seeing what my eyes do not approve of.
    And as far as referencing the Bible, I feel that it is offensive to Christianity, and it only promotes a selfish image that we think its okay to pick and choose what we personally approve of vs. what God approves. As Christians, we should work harder to attach everything “in the Bible” to our daily lives. If we as a society put as much support behind the other portions of the good book then Gluttony (overweight!), divorce, adultery, pre marital sex, murder, jealousy, worry, keeping the Sabbath day holy, worshiping false idols…etc would be less rampant.

  • Rastaman

    I am all for gay rights and I understand how the Civil Rights movement would be a great template for getting gay rights codified in law with a combination of social protest, raising awareness and legal challenges. But I think there is a nefarious attempt to establish an adversarial relationship between the Black community and the gay community. Many of the people I know in the life tell me that within that world there are very solid lines of demarcation between Blacks and Whites and I tend to believe that some of that is being played out in this mostly false controversy.

    One does not have to be gay to be tolerant of the gay lifestyle and black people who are looking for another group to feel superior to need to quit it and work on uplifting themselves. This is especially true of the Black church folks who seem to believe that homosexuality is the only sin worth oppressing while their congregations drown in a pool of iniquity. Plus white homosexuals are just as much separatist as the rest of the white population so most need to stop acting as if black folks should be partners in their struggle. Under the circumstances, the most victimized party is probably black gays who are discriminated against for their race and for who they sleep with.

    I suggest people start looking at who are asking these questions and to what end. When people start to create drama where no drama need exist it should make us pause and ask why. Apples and oranges folks!!

  • Amaka

    It’s not the same!!! Not in the least

  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com/ Val

    Thanks for your comment. It’s like an island in a sea of craziness. And if anyone wonders why many Black people hide in the closet all they need do is read these comments. And the really sad part about these comments is that so few have a basic understanding of what it means to be LGBT. That it’s not something that we put on on Saturday nights. We are who we are 24 hours a day. And this isn’t about sexual orientation this is about who we love and who we want to create families with and spend our lives with. This is about who we are. I’m as much a woman as I am Black as I am a lesbian. None of those things can be separated.

    Anyway, thanks for you comment.

  • binks

    Agreed! They are not the same.

  • CurlySue

    I wonder if most people so vehemently against the comparison are angry solely because they feel like the black struggle has been appropriated or because they feel like gay people don’t deserve some of the basic rights that other people take for granted. Or do you just not want the black struggle and the gay rights struggle combined because you find gayness distasteful and don’t want to be linked with it?

  • Chloe

    No, The Civil Rights Movement and LGBT Rights are not the same. Gays/Lesbians have been marginalized in society and blacks have been oppressed. Its an extreme difference, you can be gay and walk down the street freely without anyone suspecting a thing. Not all gay men are feminine and not all lesbians are butch. So, in most cases, you cannot tell if someone is gay or not, but you can always tell if someone is black, Hispanic, or Asian.

    Also, I hate the slogan “Gay is the new black”. To me, its basically saying that the only people struggling are white gays and lesbians. Its very weird. How are you going to compare a movement to the Civil Rights Era and exclude the population of gay/lesbian blacks, Hispanics, and Asians? It makes no sense.

  • Slide

    I keep seeing the argument of visibility being used to say that LGBT oppression is not equal to Black oppression. Skin color is not the only identifying trait used to oppress. I know every single person has SEEN a gay person. You saw them and you knew they were gay. Enough with the visibility argument.

    Trust me, visibility is a great issue for LGBT people when it comes to gender expression (butch, effeminate, etc.) and being in public with your significant other. Heterosexuals take for granted the privilege they hold in public, when with their loved one.

    LGBT people are daily targets of verbal abuse and violence in the public sphere. Did you all not see the video of the gay black man viciously beaten by other black men while they called him a f*ggot?

    Tell me again visibility is not an issue for LGBT people. Ignorance is a b*tch.

  • isola

    The LGBT is not the same but neither is the feminist movement. It is all apples and oranges. What is the same is that everyone regardless of their race, gender, sexuality or religion should be afforded the rights under the US Constitution.

  • COCOC

    The law is the law. I have learned that all this chatter waste time. Legally, they are afforded the same rights reagardless of what the bible says.I love Jesus but we live in a society of rules and unless your willing to live like Sharia Law you better watch it. If your willing to follow the bible all the way some of you would be dead and stoned.From eating certain items,drinking,drugs,sex,lying,cheating,and even the thought of such things could be an issue if we are arguing the Bible. You can’t pick and choose what is morally unacceptable when you sin all day everyday. You have no right to judge these people.It is a legal issue and I stand by that……plus I’m tired of the same old complaints.So what they used the Civil Rights movement and the Women rights movement used…what…who cares? Are these people borrowing to better themselves or obtain rights that should be automatic? Yes, so I see NO reason why I should be writing a dissertation on why groups of people shouldn’t be able to use what power GOD granted US to fight. If they need to use that to right a wrong than so be it.Whatever people need to correct the justice system then so be it….we have worse problems to take issue over like EDUCATION?

  • COCOC

    I’m way past the gripes…wayyyyy past. If this community needs help makign sure the law is unheld I have no problem with it. Sitting around talking about how your tired of people using this and that is a waste. Can we help you? Yes, we have has some laws not upheld on our in so yes we understand the struggle mo matter how you slice is.See, struggle is struggle.When your hungry you don’t care what you eat-you want to eat. People spend too much time on explaning how the past should be used in the present.Really? Cause many people need not go there…MLK and M. X were bigger than even the race. What they believed in transcended beyond just AA. Freedom and Equal rights are a human universal right…I won’t go here…..stay young….cause those leaders are bigger than the box and the struggle was not just won for us and OUR generations but show others how to FIGHT…..GOD don’t make changes to just to affect one thing it is always bigger than even that moment…other people down the line needed to see how to fight …..things always come around more than one time…

  • MsPackyetti

    Everybody skipped past this comment, but Nicole is speaking the TRUTH!

    As a straight ally, I think it behooves ALL of us to push the LGBT movement to learn from the civil rights movement without unduly (and offensively) appropriating it. The two are absolutely not the same.

    HOWEVER, out frustration with that misappropriation can NOT stop us from recognizing the struggle, potentially identifying with it, and doing our best to fight for equal right across the sexual spectrum. Being a proponent of gay rights doesn’t mean that I have to be ok with the movement’s misappropriation of the struggles of Black Americans. But not liking this appropriation doesn’t give me the excuse to not fight for my gay brothers and lesbian sisters, either.

    Last, I think we need to recognize (as Nicole has alluded to) that similar to the Feminist movement, the current incarnation of the LGBT movement Is doing little to address the specific needs, issues and dangers facing LGBT people of color. Sadly, this remains a very white movement-full of white people talking about (largely) white, rich LGBT problems. Just as women of color had to promote the womanist movement to make sure their issues were addressed as well, LGBT people of color need a voice-and as allies of color, it’s a moral imperative to support them, as our allies did us in the civil rights movement.

  • Mina

    If it is the same structural oppressions that denies them access to whole personhood than yes it is the same. We’re not arguing about lived experiences being synonymous with each other.

    Stop with the “THEY CAN HIDE THEIR HOMOSEXUALITY ARGUMENT BUT I’M ALWAYS BLACK!!1!!” argument. You’re clearly misconstruing the main crux of the issue. The point is to challenge systems of oppression that ostracize identities that deviate from white, male, heterosexual, and middle class privilege not trying to form a TwInZiEz-GeT-LiKe-Me club.

  • Mina

    “Blacks and the LGBT community do possibly have some kind of relevance with each other way, way, WAY off in hypothetical land, but not in reality.”

    Because black queers are such an anomaly and their lived experiences and activism could never intersect to include Black civil rights and sexual freedom simultaneously? Well, I guess only in the wet dreams of our contrived hypothetical lala lands?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

  • http://triniqueen-alisworld.blogspot.com/ Ali

    I don’t think the LBQT rights are the same as the Civil Rights Movement. Let’s not compare apples and oranges here. I can understand if it was influenced by the Civil Rights Movement but comparing it to the movement is really far-fetched!

  • complexity

    1. Great article. But it may only resonate with folks who are already on your side.
    2. I am black and a straight ally.
    3. The author at the end says that the two battles aren’t the same. So why do so many people write they aren’t the same when that isn’t what the author said?
    4. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -MLK

  • Bisous

    Wonder how many people will see you comment. Have you voiced this to other lgbtq people if so what was thegeneral response. For me sometime’s it can come off as a little insensitive to the full plight of blacks because of THEIR agenda.

  • tyey

    If you understand the genesis of the use of the civil rights argument to justify gay rights, or even the lumping of the two movement, you’d be very weary to use that argument. As it is rooted in scapegoating black people for the ills of homophobia in America; as well as justifying racism against blacks within the gay community.

    Here is the basic premise of this argument : lambast the black community with the question: “how can you oppress when you were oppressed before?”

    The problem with the question is
    1) it rests on terribly flawed logic, and it implies that civil rights are not equal to other rights as they are dependant on whether blacks tow a certain line, which others are not required to tow to be given rights..
    2) it trivializes oppression; and questions the immovability the civil rights by constantly putting them fr interrogation. ex the feminist movement and acquisitions are never questioned.
    3) it singles out the black community for homophobia.
    4). it’s basically an attempt to rewrite history and absolve the real perpetrators of a homophobic system and crimes against LGBT

    All it amounts to, is fallacies exposing the fallibility and motives of this whole argument..

  • tyey

    More on the argument of civil rights vs gay rights;

    Tthis whole argument was used ad nauseam following the election of 2008, and the passage of Proposition 8 in California. The media, along with many gay organizations focused their backlash on the black community; when the facts on the ground prove that most of the proponent campaigns were waged and funded by white religious organizations (catholic, mormons, etc) and politicians within the republican party..But that did not seem to matter.

    According to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_H8
    “The high-profile candidacy of Barack Obama is credited with increasing black turnout on the bill which has been seen as the crucial difference in its passing. Subsequent analysis showed black support at only 58%, still above the 52% support received by all voters”

    That statistic reading is flawed, because it does not account for number of overall voters, poll turnout, statistic amongst religious voters or other racial communities..

    Another thing the reading does address is the fact that LGBT themselves might not have voted in large enough numbers to defeat the law. That factor is not discussed at all.

    What this whole Prop 8 episode proves, however – is that racism has been a major deciding factor in any recent targeting of the black community for the ills of homophobia in America.

    And what this contends to me; is that the white gay establishment refused to lose a stronghold within the community that is based on racism. As far as I can tell, Publications like Advocate and Out still mostly feature whites heterosexuals on its covers..
    So by scapegoating the black community for the homophobia that they themselves perpetrate, that establishment is making it known they are choosing to place race above any other quest for liberation of its people.
    The gay community as is in North America has been seeking allies almost exclusively within the white community. GLAAD, the main organization representing LGBT in the US, awards network shows with white actors and Hollywood movies with white casts..Those are the people they most evidently seek to make their allies. The gay community as it stands is one of the biggest supporters of the cultural segregation of the races in America..

    So again, any comparison with the Civil Rights movement is nothing but a covert attack seeking to justify the racism that operates systematically within the gay community asit does in the rest of America.

  • seventeen

    Mina…Foregoing my previous contextual specificity, I would be remiss not to realize that Black animal lovers and the object of their affection also experience social injustice. Unless they were ‘born that way’, in which case sexual freedom and Black civil rights should never ever intersect, lest Lady Gaga make another beastial music video (see: “You and I”). Nevertheless, privacy is a right that none should be deprived of. It’s awful to observe the LGBT community struggle with public acceptance concerning their various sexual practices and preferences. If not an anomaly, it is a unique predictament.

  • Greg

    Thanks for bringing up that Prop. 8 situation. This group co-opts the Civil Rights Movement frequently, admonishes black people for their conservative beliefs, never questions Feminist about what they’ve done to weaken Marriage in the USA, the very institution they WANT to be a part of. It’s almost like they approve of the Nuclear Family dissolution of the last 40 yrs and seek more progressive “change”.

    I don’t like how bullying, fights and broken noses only became a problem now that its supposedly only experienced by LGBT. I’ve got foes and scars that’ll tell you differently and I doubt that I’m alone. I’m not really happy about the marriage thing, but whatever. But the absence/blurring of gender that your lobby and teachers (SAME TEAM) seem to be pressing in schools is freaking my sperm out.

  • Elle

    First of all, Gay is not the new Black. I believe that it is wrong that they are denied basic and civil rights due to laws based on a religion that does not resonate with the entire nation. Oppression of any kind is wrong but to say that being Gay is the new Black is a tad bit of a stretch.

    http://www.ellecherieamour.wordpress.com

  • Whatever

    +1

    I also think sometimes people feel like all gays are the free spirited liberals. There are plenty of racist gays in nyc.

  • Nicole

    Racism within the mainstream gay community is rampant as is classism and sexism. The co opting of a movement as a means of agenda advancement is wrong- and the ignorance to say “gay is the new black” often held on signs by racist white gays and lesbians is a clear example of the ignorant post-racial, and blatant racist, mentality that resonates in the whitemainstream LGBT organizations and communities. However, the result of racist white gay people co-opting the movement mixed the media attention and lobbying power leads us into binary fighting discussions that ignore the multiple oppressive tactics they use. For example, white homonormative gay people blaming the Black community for prop 8 means that they white wash the gay community (not all gay people are white) and leave out the fact that MANY queer people of color in California voted for prop 8-which is tactile to fuel to demonize the Black community and erase the existence of queer people of color.Many believe marriage is a historically racist, classist and sexist institution and access to state sanctioned marriage will not create social change for the multiple oppressions queer people, especially queer people of color, experience. Additionally there are many, many multiracial groups and communities of queer people who are fighting inequalities and do not support marriage and do not support the racist co opting of the political struggles of Black people. The gay community is not monolithic-I do not support marriage equality politic/groups or HRC or any other white centered normative gay group or community and there are many of us who feel the same. My point is that when challenging the mainstream gay movement we should be clear to discuss its racist political tactics and engagements on all fronts-co opting movements, supporting hate crime laws which feed the racist prison industrial complex, ignoring the disturbingly hight rates of queer homeless youth (40 percent in NYC) and the white privileged “it gets better” campaign. Co opting the civil rights movement is part of a large racist web of mentalities and politics that pins Black people as homophobic and ignores the struggles and social justice organizing queer people of color experience and engage in daily-and how their politics ( the LGBT orgs) negatively impact communities of color or just ignore them.

  • nappyandhappy

    @ slide thats not what the issue is about.

    As a straight AA Woman I have no problem fighting for the rights of the LGBT community, but lets stop for a second and realize that the two fights are different.

    there are no signs over drinking fountains barring you from drinking, no one has stuck police dogs or hit you with high pressure water hoses, no one has poured ketchup or spit on you for sitting at a lunch counter. no one is making you sit at the back of the bus or making you stand up so a straight person can sit, no one is putting into law that you are less than human. Just stop appropriating the message of the Civil Rights Movement and make your own! how hard is that? That is all African Americans who dont agree with invoking that historic struggle with this one are asking.

  • Slide

    @nappyand happy

    And in 2012, most black people do not receive the brutally and blatantly racist treatment that blacks received during the Civil Rights era. Did you experience those things? Or did your parents and grandparents? I have experienced racism as Black person in the USA, but certainly not to that extent.

    Let me tell you what I have experienced being a lesbian in 2012. Because comparing the treatment of gays today, to the treatment of blacks in the 60′s and 70′s is not a legitimate comparison. Arguments need to be set in the context of their sociopolitical climate.

    In 2011-2012, I have been verbally harassed regularly by black people, who are strangers to me for being gay. My girlfriend and I have been ignored by hostesses at restaurants and have received unequal treatment from waiters. We have had our lives threatened by a black man who chased us down the street in broad daylight threatening to beat our “nasty dyke asses”.

    I have friends who have been kicked out of their homes by parents simply because they are gay. I have friends who have been beaten by strangers AND parents for the same reason.

    Imagine what it is like to be treated like that by your own people. I doubt in 2012 you have received equivalent treatment due to being black. I certainly have not. But yes I have due to being lesbian.

  • n&h

    @ slide
    You are right, there is still violence against the LGBT community that is wholly accepted in our “civilized” society. it is absolutely appalling and i forgot that when i wrote my original response.

    The issue remains that this is not the Civil Rights Movement and that Straight African Americans clearly have a problem with the appropriation of that struggle for the LGBT cause and i would think that as an African American Lesbian you would not want your grandparents struggle to be appropriated by …ugh i hate to say this but ….white gay men invoking the struggle of our ancestors. The organizers of organizations such as glaad are just as guilty as the white feminist of the 60′s who were burning their bras while over looking the struggle of AA women and all women of color.
    It just seems so lazy and disingenuous.

    Are the struggles of being gay in America real? of course and i would imagine that you as a African American, as a female and as a lesbian would want something that defines YOUR movement and not just a generic title of civil rights.

    Right now the LGBT community will not win the fight by alienating a base you desperately need to accept you cause. We understand the parallels that can be drawn but this is a different fight. You are trying to change the base of what this country was founded on, Puritanical, restrictive Christians, Christians who thought that the European churches were too lenient and needed to travel months, on a boat, over the ocean, to find a place where they could be bigger prudes!!!!

    This is going to be a long process that you deserve to win but do it under your own banner.

  • modern lady

    It’s insulting that any gay person would equate being called ignorant names with being hosed, beaten, lynched, denied a job, or other rights for a fact that cannot be changed-that being skin color.

  • Slide

    @ n&h

    I appreciate your comments and acknowledgment of the struggles of LGBT life in America.

    I suppose I never did address the question proposed by the article. Are the LGBT Rights Movement and the Civil Rights Movements the same movement? No, but I do believe that the LGBT Rights Movement is a continuation of the principles in laid forth by the Civil Rights Movement.

    I have definitely felt alienated from LGBT organizations that are dominated by white males, due to both my race and gender. Racism and sexism are both issues that damage the ability of the LGBT community to cooperate as a whole. This is why I am currently working to mobilize young LGBT people of color to participate in social activism. This movement has too long been controlled and managed by white males. Just as the world has.

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  • Jackie

    While I understand the point of view of the article and appreciate the parallels drawn, you are now taking it too literally. The sign was probably intended as a play on words. (Perhaps an example of triple entendre?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_new_black

  • Jackie

    While I cannot think of any examples of hoses against people due to their sexual orientation, there have certainly been people beaten, killed, denied employment, denied housing, and other rights due to a fact that they cannot change.

    If you want to argue: you can easily change your outward skin color with makeup/chemicals, just as you can change your sexual partners; however your skin will still make pigments just as it has, and sexual desires will be there just as they have.

  • Bluebird

    Brb

  • befree

    When do people think the Civil Rights Movement Begin? REALLY. Black people in this country have been trying to get free since 1619 not 1960. I have a real problem how folks try to relegate the struggle for FREEDOM to the 1950′s and 1960′s. Black folks couldn’t marry each other much less marry some one of the opposite sex. We were not even allowed to make decision for out self or our children. I am not sure what history YOU are talking about because our struggle began long before MLK was a glimmer in his father’s eye. Black people were branded with hot iron prods, Black people were beaten with the cat of nine tails, entire generations died off under the slavery. Whether people like it or not nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the world to any other group.
    Do you not understand for several HUNDRED years there WAS NOT legal recourse for US. NONE. There was no where to run. The US CONSTITUTION “Clearly Sanctioned” us as property. Section 2 of Article I states that apart from free persons “all other persons,” meaning slaves, are each to be counted as three-fifths of a white person for the purpose of apportioning congressional representatives on the basis of population. Is this the part some want to leave out? How about After the Civil War, the Black Codes
    * Race was defined by blood; the presence of any amount of black blood made one black
    * Employment was required of all freedmen; violators faced vagrancy charges
    * Freedmen could not assemble without the presence of a white person
    * Freedmen were assumed to be agricultural workers and their duties and hours were tightly regulated
    * Freedmen were not to be taught to read or write
    * Public facilities were segregated
    * Violators of these laws were subject to being whipped or branded. US Presidents OWNED US!
    I haven’t even hit the ” Civil Rights Era” people want to relegate out history to . I could go on but I won’t.

    What history are you guys talking about? You don’t take any group’s history of oppression and piecemeal it to fit your agenda.For two based reasons. It’s disrespectful to both groups and causes conflict.

    Does this mean others have not been oppressed, certainly not? But what it does mean that Black History should not be cherry picked for political gain. Take ALL of it or leave it alone.

  • Greg

    “Section 2 of Article I states that apart from free persons “all other persons,” meaning slaves, are each to be counted as three-fifths of a white person for the purpose of apportioning congressional representatives on the basis of population. Is this the part some want to leave out?”

    WRONG analysis. The 3/5ths of a white person was put into the Census consideration in order to HELP BLACK PEOPLE/ SLAVES. Slave owners wanted their slaves to be considered as FULL persons for the sake of STATE power and congressional representatives. The ABOLITIONIST (The Good Folk, Hello) said “No. You don’t get to treat them as less than humans in order to continue slavery while all of a sudden backtracking and wanting them to be considered as full humans for political purposes (while still treating them as less than human.)

    Therefore they lessened the power of the Slave States (“you will make them 3/5ths in Census consideration”) by limiting their congressional power on the basis of the slaves they oppressed. This was a good thing and a step towards making slave-holding states less powerful!

    The 3/5ths Clause doesn’t even belong in the same CATEGORY as the other things you mentioned. It’s like spitting in the face of the Red Cross!

  • Ravi

    actually, the northern states were trying to help themselves to more power, not help slaves. Southern states were attempting to use their slave population to receive more power in the federal government relative to the northern states. Most of the northern states also had slaves, just not as many. Many of the southern states had massive slave populations and those states wanted to use that population to get more control over the federal government. The northern states were simply trying to preserve their own representation in the new federal government. this was one of many arguments surrounding how the states would receive congressional representation.

  • befree

    Greg

    1. First my analysis is just fine because the mere fact there was a DEBATE on whether or not blacks should be considered full citizens or not is the issue. Thus there is the rub. There should have NEVER been a “compromise” on our humanity. PERIOD. Point Blank. It belongs right where I put it. I have only heard Glenn Beck argue that nonsense that the 3/5 rule helped blacks…LOL Oh please it had NOTHING TO DO WITH HELPING BLACKS. It was about political power.

    What the hell..let’s play..
    2. 3/5 the Three-Fifths Compromise did not work as the South anticipated ONLY because the northern states grew more rapidly than the South BUT there no way to predict THAT growth WHEN the 3/5 compromise was agreed up. It’s helped the South later on..stay tuned.

    Next…
    3. Read this one GOOD.. from Jefferson’s election as President in 1801 to the election of Zachery Taylor 1850s, the three-fifths rule would help to elect slave holding Presidents. Yep..that’s right. Presidents who held slaves would have NO interest in ending the institution.The Three-Fifths Compromise gave Southerners an edge in electing presidents and constructing majorities in Congress.

    4. The 3/5 clause was there because delegates from the Southern states would never have agreed to the Constitution unless some weight was given to their slave populations in the apportionment of representation. It had zero to do with abolishing slavery!

    5.They wanted slaves counted 100%, but when they saw that they could not get that, they settled for 3/5. The practical effect of that, far from making easier to abolish slavery, made it more difficult. It gave added weight to southern political power in Congress, it inflated Southern power in the apportioning of electoral votes, which led to a succession of Southern presidents as I mentioned earlier.

    6. The best thing that could have been done with respect to making it easier to abolish slavery would have been to have given slaves NO weight in the apportioning of representation.The South was able to count people WHO COULD NOT VOTE!

    7. 3/5 rule gave the South more incentive to import enslaved Africans

    You are also confused… opposing the spread of slavery IS NOT the same as being an abolitionist…there is a major difference.

    Sounds like the 3/5 rule is the the Black Moses you claim it to be.

    Just food for thought not ALL white abolitionists were “The Good Folk, Hello”
    Frederick Douglass spoke frequently of their paternalistic and patronizing attitudes to their black allies. Um..hello.

    :)

  • Bluebird

    Bad article, so simplistic in it’s approach to shame Blacks into linking arms with gays. #1, being Black is not immoral mentally or spiritually

    #2 It’t not the Christian Bible, but the HEBREW BIBLE, ERGO THE OLD TESTAMENT, AND the Holy BIble that condemns homosexuality. And how come writers like this have selective memory when it comes to Islam? More foolish dribble about “how Christians are so blah blah, while conveniently ignoring that MUSLIMS DO KILL GAYS UNDER SHARIA LAW. What about Hinduism? Do you think homosexuality is celebrated in that religion?

    I’m sick of know nothing writers present only one side of the argument regarding religion and homosexuality because the gay community and their shills have issues with Christianity and Catholicism. It’s lazy minded, narrow-minded, and cowardice to only attack those religions, while conveniently ignoring others.

    #3 I’m on the right side of history because I serve a mighty God. And when he says homosexuality is an abomination, I WILL SERVE MY GOD AND OBEY HIM, and not society.

    #4 When are the gay shills going to address the racism of white gays towards Blacks? We are not slaves that have to ask permission to think for ourselves. If Blacks like me don’t support gay rights because we deem it immoral, then IT IS OUR RIGHT. Do not sit here and guilt trip, play fast and loose with facts of history, and play emotionally manipulative mind games with Blacks because we should know better. Miss me all day and night with that nonsense. We don’t have to support gay rights if we don’t agree with it.

    And no, Black civil rights will never be the same or close to what gay rights are. PERIOD.

  • Bluebird

    Spot on analysis of Black history regarding institutional slavery in America. I can’t stop laughing at the absurd premise and illogical reasoning presented in this article and the manipulative tactic played by gays trying to influence Blacks into likening our experiences to theirs. Pfft.

  • Bluebird

    ^^^This. The racism and discrimination of Blacks are deeply entrenched, institutionalized, in every facet of society for over 400 years, and for gays to say, “gay is the new black” is on it’s face hysterical, pathetic, and annoyingly obtuse. Gays have been fighting for legitimacy of their sexually deviant lifestyle for 40 years, yet their experience is nothing compared to the systematic destruction of Blacks in the Americas. I’m not, and never will buy this cheap ploy by shills SHRILLING about how “we should know better and stay on the ‘right side’ of history”. I nearly choked on my food when I read this dribble. And when are those of us who oppose gay rights comparison to Blacks continuing fight for equality going ot have the same platform. You know, I can see why Rethuglicans have an ax to gring with mainstream media. I’m sick and tired or reading one sided arguments involving culture war issues without a strong counterpoint to baseless accusations and assumptions in the media.

  • http://nachalooman.wordpress.com Anna Renee

    I am thankful for the commentary by Bluebird especially about this ridiculous attack on the black church and black christians. They have made it our fault and our responsibility for gay rights forward movement. How convenient! I want them to argue this position with American muslims! Im not even talking about muslims in the Middle East. Or even white evangelicals or the white mormons!

    Lets see how far they get with that. I find it ridiculous that anti-homosexuality is dropped at the black church’s doorstep, yet everybody mocks the black church for having so many homosexuals in it and how homosexuals are downlow everywhere in the black church! Seems like a dichotomy somewhere in this! The black church is the most tolerant of all churches!!

    Too many black LGBT youth have fallen for the OKEY DOKE and have allowed themselves to be bamboozled in this regard. Throwing the black church under the bus so easily. Let me tell you black LGBT youth who do this: you will get NOTHING for your efforts. You need to learn your history from the right place. You will not get concessions from white gays. White hegemony trumps gay everyday of the week. Do you really believe that being a sellout for the white man will get you something, just because the man is gay and you are as well?

    You better get to work advocating for black people to unite across sexual orientation, because there’s more in that for you. I have never seen GLAAD anywhere in my black community trying to educate and unite. Realtalk

  • Chrissy

    Peoples ridiculous religious beliefs are a choice. But yet they still want to practice their religion freely and have religious freedom.

    Instead of sexuality being linked with skin color or “race” it has more in common with religion.

    It also appears that people seem to forget black and gay people exist.

  • Libby

    Peoples ridiculous religious beliefs are a choice.

    How tolerant of you SMH.

  • Chrissy

    How tolerant of you SMH.

    It is what it is.

    I made it a point to say if people get to pick and choose whatever kind of belief system they have, no matter how crazy and ridiculous. And yet we protect that. Then why not afford sexuality the same protection?

    Why does a persons magical beliefs get to dominate another persons beliefs? If based on your belief system you deem the way someone wants to live as deviant therefore they should not be allowed to live( according to your beliefs that you have chosen, btw)…Who are you(general you) and what makes you so special that you get to decide how another person can live based off of a belief system you have picked.

  • haffie

    Homosexuality is wrong period so what does it have to do with civil rights? Cmon folks stop accepting what the bible called a sin. I am tired of this gay nonsense that is killing our communities.

  • LaDreaming86

    If you thing homosexuality is wrong just because the Bible says so, then you need to learn how to think for yourself.

    By the way, I am interested in knowing how “gay nonsense is killing our communities”.

  • LaDreaming86

    *think

  • LaDreaming86

    Exactly!

  • Libby

    Who is stopping you? No your problem is you want other to fight for what YOU believe and you think you can admonish those who don’t. It doesn’t work that way. I would argue that the vast majority of black people don’t care about gay marriage and even if they disagree I highly doubt most are out there posting against it. Save the alarmist stuff for GLAAD. Who are you to tell anyone what is acceptable foundation for their belief? You have all the right to advocate, but you don’t have the right to determine what and how I advocate my position. Sorry. You are a religious bigot and you have the nerve to question someone foundation of their beilef. Pot calling… You know the rest.

  • Libby

    la dreaming…oh great thinker how did you come to the conclusion that homosexually is right? What great enlightenment was bestowed upon you? Do tell. How did you become this evolved higher life form that formulated this idea with no influence from society. I would love to know.

    Please. Smh. Yes thinking homosexually is fine is suppose show some higher form of intelligence.. Again smh.

  • LaDreaming86

    Eh, nope. I didn’t say it was right. You misunderstood me.

    If someone tells you something is wrong, are you just going to believe them or are you going to find out why it is wrong?

  • Chrissy

    I am a religious bigot??? Nice try.

    I’m not the one beating and killing people because the bible told me to do it. Or hating people because god said so. No, Ill leave that to people like you.

    How about you read what I wrote again. Because I think you have my post confused with someone else.

    You are free to believe whatever you want. However, why does one persons fantasy thinking get to dominate another persons belief? That is my question. If you have chosen to believe in god and practice religion and another person has not. Why do you get to make the rules for them from your chosen belief system?

    Im all for people being as hateful and ‘holy’ as they please. Just get that mess out of my life and stop telling my children about your magical beliefs. lol. Sound familiar?

  • Allie

    Is gay rights civil rights, yes. Do I see the parallels between the two struggles, of course. Are they the same thing, no. No civil rights movement is exactly the same, to make that statement is completely absurd. Every group of people have their own group of problem. With that being said I’ll end with this, gays deserve their rights, because they’re rights, and rights are not suppose to be voted on.

  • Libby

    Chrissy,
    No you are a religious bigot and as you said it is what it is. I hate to tell you this but there is no beating and killing requirement to be a religious bigot. Where did you learn that nonsense? You are person who regards or treats members with religious beliefs with hatred and intolerance. Chrissy save the histrionics. No one is forcing YOU to believe anything and you know it. There is no caravan of church vans running around snatching up you or your children for Sunday School. I am quite sure if someone said they support gay marriage based on scripture you would have no problem with that belief, would you? You consider any one who thinks gay marriage is wrong is spreading hate. This is just a technique you use in order to silence the opposition and control how the dialogue is done. You want people to let go of their beliefs in place of your non beliefs, how is that anymore justifiable? It doesn’t.

  • Libby

    Most Christians are against homosexuality no surpise there AND most are the “live and let live” type. So don’t think people support you just because they don’t talk against you.

  • Chrissy

    If you dont like the way you are being treated maybe you should pick another religion.

    Anyway, like I said be as hateful and as holy as you like. That is what I expect from most people. Who’s stopping you? Please stop acting like people like me are running around raping, beating, killing, and making your life criminal. That is what you all do and justify it with scripture. (Dont think that happens? Then you must be living under a rock)

    That is an example of one persons CHOSEN belief dictating how another person lives and I asked why? But, you seem not to be able to comprehend that. Oh well.

    I

  • Mr Jay

    This article was damn near childish.

  • haffie

    Romans 1:26-28 says states clearly that God does not approve of about homosexuality. If you have a problem with this view its means that you are in opposition with God not wiith me. I believe i the bible and I believe in one man and one woman. I could care less about gays and all. i dont preach violence against them but just becaue you are gay does not mean that you can’t fight your unnatural desires. If you love God you will do as he sayd and any churches or leaders who said otherwise is against the bible. The bilbe clearly expalins that if you practice that lifestyle you should be put to death. when God’s kingdom will come it will get rid of all who practice such abomination. I stand by it till the day I die.

    “That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; 27 and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.
    28 And just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting.”

    How dare some people compare it to civil rights? Just another excuse to indulge in their corrupted sins. if you love God you will stay away from anyone who engage in unatural desire, friends or family members.

  • Allie

    First off civil rights by definition is the rights of citizens to political and social freedom and equality. Secondly the Bible also says that those who commit adultery, and disobedient children should be put to death, what’s your point? I get that you’re a Christian and that your moral compass is align to the teaching of Christ, but this is not a matter of creed but of rights. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t want someone to deny you your rights solely because their beliefs said so.

  • Socially Maladjusted

    Wearing my too black too strong hat for this one.

    I guess if gays think they have cause, then that’s their business, however gay rights (whatever that means) is not a cause I can get excited about because I can’t see any social utility in it.

    If we’re trying to create a more tolerant society in which all are respected then the women’s movement, environmentalist movement, atheism movement, international labour movement and anti-racist movement – cover that ground pretty comprehensively.

    But to make a cause out of what is nothing more than a sexual inclination leaves me a bit cold.

    That feeling turns to haberrant ostility when we see a repeated pattern of whites equating disproval of an “exotic” lifestyle – to racial oppression.

    Any opposition to anything, no matter how irrelevent to the cause of social justice and equality, is now “racist”.

    I think it hurts the cause of anti-racism because it has the effect of reducing it to just another dubious single issue campaign trying to force it’s “deviancy” on society.

    The fight against racism is not the same as the fight to gain acceptance for a sexual inclination, and it never will be. The former makes society a better and more tolerant place for all – the latter just makes society more gay, but does nothing to improve economic, gender and race relations in the society.

  • Socially Maladjusted

    correction

    *That feeling turns to hostility when we see a repeated pattern of whites equating disproval of an “exotic” lifestyle – to racial oppression.*

  • http://hairpolitik@gma[email protected] alona

    Kristen, I couldn’t agree more. First and foremost, most people forget that there were gay black people that were instrumental in the civil rights movement. So we can’t say that straight people exclusively own it. With that said, I think it’s a trap to compare the two. An injustice anywhere is an injustice. I don’t even engage in the “we have it harder” debates. It’s sort of apples and oranges isn’t it- well if an apple could be both an apple and an orange at the same time, but I digress.

    I understand why the LGBTQ… community uses this argument (no one wants to be thought of as on the ‘wrong side of history’). However, I think that when it comes right down to it people shouldn’t concern themselves with being on the right side of history. They should do what they think is right, irregardless of how they think they’ll be remembered. Some of our most revered leaders acted with the belief that their characters would be trashed in the history books because they were opposed to those that owned the printing presses. And yet, just the opposite is true.

    Wow. SMH on some of these comments. I’ll just say I stand with “the gays” lol.

  • bluebird

    excellent points Nicole.

  • bluebird

    Well reasoned analysis tyey.

  • bluebird

    :-) thank you very much Anna Renee. Brilliant assessment of how the gay community is trying to lay fault at our feet. Th gay community needs a reality check. You’re right, it’s so convenient for them to start whining about how Blacks don’t should knowbetter. Who do they think they are? I refuse to allow gays to play emotional blackmail with me. And I’m also glad that more Blacks are becoming more vocal about our struggle not being the same as gay rights, and how extremely disrespectful and simple minded this claim is.

    It’s funny you bring up American and Middle East muslims because gays are too scared to bring this up with them! You can see how they avoid it all together. If gays want to talk about oppression, they are afraid to take their fight to where gays are still being beaten to death and killed for being gay and muslim in muslim countries. But do black journalists bring that up? NOPE. They’ve bought into the we are the same propaganda here in America. I’ll not cosign on those lies.

    I’ll never forget when Prop 8 was originally voted against in California, and who did the gay media blame? BLACK COMMUNITY. I read some of the most hateful, racist, incendiary posts that truly turned my stomach, convincing me that I will never, ever view gays as the same as me. Dan Savage wrote a nasty op-ed about it. And what did Black journalists do like this writer? NOTHING. Quiet as church mouses. And when it came out that Mormon, Evangelicals, and Catholic church were responsible for Prop 8, no apology was forthcoming from the gay community nor the gay media, especially the gay mafia, GLAAD. So they can miss me all day about how our Black struggle is the same as gay rights, because it is not.

    Not only is anti-homosexuality being laid at the feet of the black church a complete farce, including branding blacks as homophobes, the anti-Christian rhetoric from the gay community is inflammatory, racial and classism by gays proves how hypocritical, contradictory, and disingenuous they really are. I’ve read some of the most hateful comments recently by gays who hate Yeshua and try to condemn the Bible, while using it as a weapon of condemnation to Christians. I mean it’s such twisted logic.

    You are absolutely right about the black church being tolerant of all churches, but is that brought up in articles like this? NOPE. SMH @ the sheer bias. And your last paragraph was nothing but the truth. Many gay LGBT think they’re safe. They better think again.

    “Too many black LGBT youth have fallen for the OKEY DOKE and have allowed themselves to be bamboozled in this regard. Throwing the black church under the bus so easily. Let me tell you black LGBT youth who do this: you will get NOTHING for your efforts. You need to learn your history from the right place. You will not get concessions from white gays. White hegemony trumps gay everyday of the week. Do you really believe that being a sellout for the white man will get you something, just because the man is gay and you are as well?”

    You better get to work advocating for black people to unite across sexual orientation, because there’s more in that for you. I have never seen GLAAD anywhere in my black community trying to educate and unite. Realtalk

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003405625069 Retu

    When you hear about people who are gntusglirg with their feelings internally and must also take into account outside forces that are telling them to do something different from how they feel, it s really sad and depressing. I say that it s sad and depressing because for me, I feel like people should be able to love whoever they want and it shouldn t matter what other people have to say about it. They aren t the ones in the relationship, it s you and whoever you choose to be with that must put all the effort and love into making things work. The fact that the grandfather realized that he couldn t stand being in a marriage because he knew he was attracted to guys is a clear indication that people don t choose whether they love someone of the same sex or someone from the opposite sex. Homosexuals do not choose their lifestyle because who wants to willingly subject themselves to the prejudice they face constantly? I understand the idea that without the grandfather being in the marriage, the grandson would not be present. But, wouldn t that have spared many feelings from being hurt or from the grandfather from feeling constantly that he is not living an honest life? I mean I cannot imagine having a family and always feeling guilty that although you truly love your spouse and love being a parent, you still have feelings inside of you that you are not supposed to let out because of how other people may react to it. When Tony Perri confessed to the priest that he was gay, the priest simply told him not to tell anyone about it and in a sense to just ignore it and not act upon those feelings. Someone knew that Tony was experiencing an internal conflict and the only advice they could give him was to keep it inside. The only outcome that would result from this is a breakdown in the near future. Although I do not know what it feels like to be in a closet, I can t imagine keeping a secret that big from my loved ones. It s saddening that in the middle of his life, once he was already married and had children, he would just have to give it up because he didn t feel right living his life dishonestly. However, through his internal struggles, he does seem to have helped out his grandson and served as a role model for him. Seeing what his grandfather went through would have been inspirational for anyone because he actually had the courage to tell his wife and his children and his grandchildren that he was gay. Times were different back then and it was almost nearly impossible to express one s sexual orientation. Nowadays, I think it s a little bit easier to outwardly express that you choose to spend the rest of your life with someone who is of your same sex. Instead of confessing to priests and other people who believe that homosexuality is wrong, people should talk to others with experience with the situation or those with the understanding that homosexuality is not a choice. Though there is still discrimination against homosexuals, I believe that seeing someone who was in your same position be happy with the decision of being themselves initially motivates others to come forth with their decision and choose to follow their hearts instead of other people s judgments.

  • http://themodernmedicineman d-rhyme

    Its called antisocial a personality disorder. A precursor or early stage psychosis. The doctor who said it was normal owes somebody money for malpractice. Rectal sex is
    suicidal. If one helps you commit suicide, is that. a true friend or foe. I chose to be a friend. You are on the path of learning further psychosis. I am a true true friend. Yet i am persecuted and tortured by you. That’s insanity.

  • http://themodernmedicineman d-rhyme

    @socialmal. Very poignant and eloquent. Problem is those once considered mentally ill now get no treatment and now call others mentally ill. They have a penchant for destroying blacks for some odd reason. A true sign of mental illness. The AA approach of acceptance must precede treatment or cure. Sad.

  • http://WhatWebsite? Stephen Keith Black

    No. The statement should stand out as a direct insult to the suffering endured by black People in America. When “gays” are enslaved for a few hundred years and forced to reproduce, maybe then you “gays” can say something along these lines. Until then, you are only trying to cause problems where problems need not be. I could write pages on this matter.
    Homosexuality is a SIN, for a starting point. A SIN which God forgives you for, yes. To compare the free choice and SIN of Homosexuality to being born with black skin without choice or say in the matter is absurd. This idea should be put out FIRMLY by Black Americans. Put this Idea out and bury it away to never be heard of again. Black People come out and say the truth about this toward these “I was born this way” people who CHOSE to be homosexual.

  • Wordmonger

    As a disabled woman I call foul. Once you start to compare, to pull out, “I suffered more than you because my ancestors suffered more”, you lose. Or do you think that disability and womanhood trumps black every time because those particular discriminations can be found throughout human history? And I endure unending pain each day do to how I was born. Does that mean your civil rights have no meaning because they aren’t equal?

    I have found that while the method of dicsrimination varies, injustice is still injustice.

    Religion has been used to cover hate before. Do you use a toilet in your house? SIN! Do you wear polyester? SIN! Do you eat shellfish? SIN! All found in the same passages.

    Most importantly. Do you chose your religion and still expect protection for your choice?

  • texaschainsawlovin’

    Yeah I am pretty disturbed with the comments here myself.

  • Delilah

    nothing like this has ever happened to any other group? Uhm, holocaust much? and every population has been enslaved. EVERY population. EVERY race.
    and do not mistake pure invisibility for painless and non-existent. LGBT people have been around since the beginning of time and just because you do not read about it in books does not mean you know their plight throughout history. Black people were enslaved and the atrocities are still vividly remembered because in America, they are the most recent. . But no one knows the full story of any of the other enslaved populations. You go to Germany today, and it’s like the Holocaust never happened. It depends on who is telling the story.
    Black people suffered, yes. But they are not the one population who suffered the most. This is not a competition of who’s scars are deeper. Its a simple comparison of certain aspects and how history seems to keep repeating itself.

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