There have been many societal changes to our understanding of family, but most women will at some point take on the role of mothering, either through natural birth, foster care, adoption, or parenting a step-child. Like everything else women do,  motherhood is analyzed and talked about to death.  Is there a better way to keep 50% of the population on edge than the constant suggestion that we are failing to follow through on our so-called maternal instincts? The New York Times has begun a discussion about modern motherhood based on a book entitled, “Le Conflit: la femme et la mère” (“Conflict: The Woman and the Mother”) by French intellectual and feminist Elisabeth Badinter.  In a roundtable discussion, several female columnists are exploring the good mother/bad mother binary and the role feminism has played in how women perform motherhood today.

If you look through most parenting magazines, you will see an erasure of the experiences of marginalized women, particularly women of colour.  Our motherhood has always been complicated by aspects such as social class and racism.  When you have to worry about your child being shot for simply wearing a hoodie or children being educated in failing schools, somehow the debates of cloth versus disposable diapers, co-sleeping, and staying-at-home versus working take on a completely different context.  I was impressed when I realized that a woman of color blogger and columnist LaShaun Williams recently contributed to the discussion.  That is, I was until I read her article.

For Williams, feminism is the singular cause of the malaise suffered by the modern mother because “the present feminist climate pressures women to work. We should question why so many of us are working — single and married women alike. Is it because we bought the feminist lie that we don’t need a husband? Is it because we want to prove to the world that we are worth something? Or is it to live in a ritzy neighbourhood and drive an Audi Q7?” Williams writes.   I wonder if the author has considered that some women aren’t married because same-sex marriage is not legal throughout the U.S.  I suppose a little heterosexism goes hand in hand with gender essentialism. Oh monolithic woman, how I detest you.

At this point in reading her brief contribution to the debate, I had to pause and wonder about how this ahistorical piece of claptrap thought it could successfully pose a legitimate argument against feminism. This was truly a difficult thing for me because I identify as a womanist rather than a feminist, due to a long history of racism, transphobia, ableism and homophobia engaged in by White, straight, cis gender, temporarily able-bodied, class-privileged feminists.  (Yes, I know that was a mouthful.)  At any rate, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms that should rightly be aimed at feminism, but suggesting that feminism created a world in which children must be reared in a two-income household — and is responsible for the dissatisfaction experienced by working mothers — is intellectually dishonest at best.  It seems to me that the real issue is the demise of the Keynesian economic system. It is worth noting, however, that even in the imaginary golden age of the 1950′s which Williams references — a time when June Cleaver reigned supreme — Williams forgets that poor and working class women, regardless of their race, had to work to ensure the economic survival of their families.

Williams’ gender essentialist understanding of womanhood and motherhood belies the history of Black women having to work outside of the home.  When Betty Friedan penned The Feminine Mystique in 1963 — which is largely understood as responsible for starting the second wave of U.S. mainstream feminism –  her objective was to free women from their gilded cages, but she most certainly was not addressing women of colour.  At that time, White women were largely kept out of the workforce, but there were plenty of jobs available for women of colour as maids in their houses and nannies for their kids.  It is only when union density rates dropped, thanks in large part to Reagan’s attack on unions, coupled with his war on the  poor and outsourcing became the horror of the day, that White women were able to infiltrate the workforce en masse.  The ongoing decline of the social safety network today continues to ensure that women must seek paid labour outside the home. TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families), which limits benefits to 60 months within one’s lifetime, certainly isn’t helping poor mothers to stay home and practice attachment parenting.

Women started working outside of the home because it became absolutely impossible to raise a family on one income.  That’s all, folks.  Feminism and other forms of women’s activism has made it possible for women to enter careers outside of the service sector, but even then, the glass ceiling ensures that there are limitations to how far we may rise.  If one is a woman of colour, the ceiling is most definitely lower.  Getting out of the secretarial pool isn’t exactly the same as becoming a CFO or CEO, is it? A single episode of AMC’s Mad Men correctly illustrates that.

Whether you are a working mother or a stay-at-home mother — with the exception of Anne Romney — parenting a child from infancy to adulthood is back-breaking work.  The pressure to engage in this new paint-by-numbers attachment parenting, as well as co-sleeping, going to Mommy and me play groups, etc. may be something that some women aspire to, but it certainly is not something all women want or need for that matter.

 I grew up in a home in which my mother worked outside of the home, and from her example, I always knew that I wanted to work, because I wanted to be independent. The need to be financially independent was also underscored repeatedly to me by my aunt, who was forced to flee and emotional an abusive relationship, and had to depend on family largesse to make her escape. “Always remember” she said, “women’s lives are hard.” No matter what fairy tales we tell ourselves about the joys of finger painting for hours and breaking up fights in the sandbox, the current rate of divorce tells us that depending on a man to support you is not only financially irresponsible, it’s also potential economic suicide.   Even if you happen to be one of the lucky few with a wonderful, happy, stable relationship, there’s nothing like a falling piano, car accident, walnut in the windpipe, or other act of God to throw a wrench in your best-laid plans.  Good supportive partners do occasionally die young, so where does that leave the stay-at-home mom with the hunk of Play-Doh in her hands?

 Modern motherhood is tough, not because of feminism, but because the economy is not constructed to consider women’s nurturing work.  We shouldn’t have to choose between being the kind of mother we aspire to be and the demands of corporate America. The further we move into an economy that is built around 24 hour consumption, the further we move from making women, our needs and responsibilities a priority.  Perhaps it’s time that we remember that the common denominator here is patriarchy and capitalism, not other women.

  • Nicky

    Excellent post!
    As a young woman of color i often wonder about how much personal time i will have to sacrifice with my future children in order to provide the financially stable life i feel they should receive. Its especially difficult to contemplate when you are anticipating judgement from others questioning your parenting abilities.
    But this is the world we live in. The idea of the term ‘family’ has been redefined. Most women need to work, its not just a fantastical feminist desire.

    I also don’t believe any hostility should be shown towards Williams. Although she is a woman of color she may not identify with some of the issues mentioned. Unless you know the life she lives and where she falls on the map of our society.. don’t judge, take her opinion for what it is and keep it moving. After all she’s not the utmost authority on black women/mothers. Just another blogger. The internet has hundreds of those with mouses and keyboards alike.

  • Jasmine

    This!! One of the best posts I’ve read on Clutch.

  • Dreaming

    My adult life has gotten off to a very, extremely slow start (I’ll be 26 in July), which is why the idea of parenthood is becoming less likely. Not because I am getting older, but because financially, I cannot afford to be a parent.

    I absolutely refuse to have my livelihood be dependent upon another person. If I were to have children/a child, I would still work. One never knows what may happen, and too many times, I have seen women who were heavily dependent on their husband’s, and when that husband died or was in the hospital, they didn’t know what to do.

    I don’t care what anyone says, a woman should always have her own.

    No one is going to tell me how to be a woman!

  • Dreaming

    When I state that I cannot afford to be a parent, I am factoring in the possibility of being a single parent, because one never knows what may happen.

  • luverly

    I must agree. Excellent post!

  • heartofGOLD

    One of the reasons I decided to be a stay at home mother was because I use to work in daycare. I did not want others to provide my child with the necessities that I shold give as a mother. Such as balanced meals, nurturing, attention, discipline. As a daycare worker, I witnessed children in others care from 7am to 6pm. I witnessed parents expected daycare workers to take on parental roles. I never understood how parents who picked their little ones up at 6:30 pm Mon-Fri would complain about not being able to sleep late during the weekend. Why would you want to sleep late when you have an hour or 2 a day with your child?

    This article proves the point that women choose their ”feminist rights” over being proper mothers. Why are so many women afraid of losing their independence?

  • BFDuster

    Yes because we ALL know that wanting to be treated like a human being is the reason why children are suffering… it couldn’t possibly be that working parents are being overworked and underpaid! It must be those damn feminists and not those greedy corporations who treat humans like cattle!

  • LemonnLime

    Those aren’t “feminist rights”, it’s the freedom to choose to do what you want with the one life you have. Not everyone is able to stay home with their kids, if they could have you would have been out of a job. Count yourself lucky you can stay at home.

    And women with kids kill me with this stuff. Having kids doesn’t make you this saintly martyr and those of us who CHOOSE not to have kids don’t all do it bc we are selfish or too independent. Jesus where are all the people asking men this same stupid question constantly?

  • heartofGOLD

    @LemonLime- What does CHOOSING not to have children have anything to do with independence in reference to this article? I was referring to financial independence as mentioned by the author. And if I wasnt a stay at home mom, which I will no longer be when my little ones are school age, I will not allow having a job be an excuse to not parent. So many parents use work as an excuse to forego quality time with their children and properly raising their children. This includes discipline, proper values, rewarding traditions. All for the sake of feminism.

    @BFDuster . Exactly, mothers are allowing corporate America to place a wedge betweem them and raising their children. ”Im a woman hear me roar! Oh but please feed my child, discipline him, and make sure he does his homework. But how dare you accuse me of not being a strong, independent, all-together woman.” Why is being over worked affecting our children? If you choose to work then dont allow that do take away from what is most precious. You want all the perks of being equal to men…well… this includes not being able to cook breakfast and dinner for your children, not being able to attend school and sporting events, not being able to properly monitor their social lives, etc. We get what we ask for.

  • Nicky

    Who is making the “bread” while you stay at home with your kids? Some how somone is making it possible for you to be able not to work and take care of your kids. The point here is that most women don’t have anyone to fall back on or don’t want to make the mistake of letting their partner resume all finacial responsibility only to be screwed over some where down the line.

  • Nicky

    Ppl seperate or divorce with a passion these days. Everyone’s concerned with their own happiness and staying together for the sake of children can prove to be the worst choice. What happens if dad leaves? How does mommy pay the bills?

  • heartofGOLD

    @Nicky – being a stay at home mom was a choice. Through my personal experience I saw how children did not receive the basic care and raising because mom had to work. I chose not to be one of those parents who complained about not being able to spend time with my kids while expecting others to take on my duties. The family is suffering because we allow work to be a hinderance. Im aware that everyone cant be a stay at home mom, but why allow work to take away from your duties as a mother? Mothers should sacrifice fully. This doesnt mean given up work, but this does mean not allowing your duties to suffer. I believe this…when it comes to cleaning, cooking, disciplining, attending events, sharing traditions, monitoring the kids’ social lives, keeping on top of school work and maintaining relationships with teachers, principals, other parents, etc.

  • Dreaming

    Why do men allow work to take away from their duties as a father?

  • heartofGOLD

    Why are you deflecting the issue? This is about mothers (refer to article). Like I use to tell the children I worked with, ”When I ask a question about you, dont tell me what another person did.” And let’s face it, many women in our community are single mothers so why are you worried about what the fathers are doing? If he’s not around to cook or clean, how can he?

    No one has touched on my point which is mothers expecting others to handle their business. It’s women who started and championed for the feminist’s movement, NOT MEN. Men did not champion for our duties. We stated we can do their’s duties and then some. But am I wrong? Or is the family suffering because our children are missing out on the basic necessities?

  • heartofGOLD

    ^^^^^@ Dreaming

  • Dreaming

    People need to move away from the idea that it is a woman’s job to be the primary caregiver. This is why so many children are growing up with little to no emotional connection with their father’s even if they come from a two-parent household.

  • heartofGOLD

    So is that the solution? Mommy and daddy share duties? Ok, but will this prevent the parents from placing their duties on others? Hopefully, this will mean mommy and daddy, BOTH, will not use work as an excuse to fully parent.

    But let’s face facts. WE DONT LIVE IN A WORLD OF HOW THINGS SHOULD BE. We live in a world of how things are. Many of our homes dont have a daddy. What do we do in the meantime? If he’s not their he cant clean, cook, reward, redirect, discipline, etc. Also, many 2 parent homes hold traditional values, mommy is still to main cook, cleaner, nurse, school runner, etc. Even when dad is hands on, each parent plays a role. Point is, this article is about mothers and feminism. Not the role daddy should partake

  • Dreaming

    Listen, I am not ‘worried’ about anything or deflecting. How can there be a discussion about Feminism and parenting without talking about men and men who are fathers when they are apart of the equation? My issue is with the belief that when women work, she is supposedly neglecting her parental responsibilities, but when men choose to work, he isn’t seen as neglecting his parental responsibilities.

    I cannot speak for others, so I cannot address why no one has ‘touched’ on your point about mothers expecting others to ‘handle their business’. I personally do not feel that a mother dropping her kid off at daycare is her expecting someone else to take care of her responsibilities.

    Like the article states and what I believe as well, “No matter what fairy tales we tell ourselves about the joys of finger painting for hours and breaking up fights in the sandbox, the current rate of divorce tells us that depending on a man to support you is not only financially irresponsible, it’s also potential economic suicide.”

  • BFDuster

    Heart, women are NOT wind up toys for children. Or men for that matter. We’re NOT beasts of burden. We have human feelings, desires, dreams, etc… we get tired, depressed, sad, angry, etc… and if a woman needs to work to help support the family, she needs to work. It’s about survival.

    In today’s economy where jobs are being sold overseas, people are being exploited and CEOs are voting themselves more money than they really need, one breadwinner isn’t enough for regular families to even raise just two children. That doesn’t even cover where race, gender, sex, ability, etc intersect with this shit.

    By the way if you knew a family was suffering, but only sat from the comfort of your home and passed judgement on them, I’d REALLY hate to find out you’re a Christian.

  • seventeen

    Dreaming, Women are primary caregivers.
    Men don’t carry babies then go through labor and delivery.
    Not to mention, lactation and nursing – this is primary business.

    Households of stay at home mothers should be monetarily gifted.
    It should be a national and federally funded effort, akin to social security.

    But sometimes, feminism – as a movement, shuns feminine qualities.
    Lesbian feminists have little in common with heterosexual married women with kids.
    This is one reason that women’s rights have stagnated, in my opinion.

  • Dreaming

    “A primary caregiver is the person who takes primary responsibility for someone who cannot care fully for themselves. It may be a family member, a medical professional or another trained professional. Depending on culture there may be other members of the family engaged in care.”

  • seventeen

    [i] “I wonder if the author has considered that some women aren’t married because same-sex marriage is not legal throughout the U.S. I suppose a little heterosexism goes hand in hand with gender essentialism. Oh monolithic woman, how I detest you.”[i]

    ^ This quote from the article is very peculiar.

    A few weeks ago, the National Association for Marriage was outed for trying to pit gays against blacks.

    What’s really strange is how a gay, black, feminist woman is now posed as the voice of motherhood. Oh, the irony.

  • apple

    I agree with you dreaming! My life is starting slow too or rather not at all and now the shear thought of children makes me cringe because financially I can’t do it. Nor with the current state of the world makes me not wanna do it. And then the thought of single parent hood? I just can’t

  • H

    I don’t think women are choosing to go to work for 8+ hours a day rather than stay at home and raise their children for the sake of feminism. Everybody wants the American dream, and guess what? It ain’t cheap. It’s very difficult to get that dream with only one source of income. Forget the American dream and the suburbs. Life is hard period on one income. I’m glad that you were fortunate in having that experience, but many are not.

    I don’t know why stay at home mothers attack working mothers on their duties. They work 40+ hours a week and still do the same cooking and cleaning that you do without all the energy. They attend events, go to Sunday school, and do it all. The working mothers I know do everything they can to stay involved.

    Everyone loves to lay the decay of the family on the working woman. It’s silly to think that you can go to high school, get a silly degree in college, meet your husband in college, and be taken care of for the rest of your life. Divorce rates show that this is a bad idea. That fairy tale of finding your prince and being happily married forever is just that.

    I don’t think that women choose to work for the sake of feminism. One of the biggest reasons they do it is financial independence.

  • Pat

    +1

  • Anonymous

    “And if I wasnt a stay at home mom, which I will no longer be when my little ones are school age, I will not allow having a job be an excuse to not parent. So many parents use work as an excuse to forego quality time with their children and properly raising their children. This includes discipline, proper values, rewarding traditions. All for the sake of feminism.”
    ” I believe this…when it comes to cleaning, cooking, disciplining, attending events, sharing traditions, monitoring the kids’ social lives, keeping on top of school work and maintaining relationships with teachers, principals, other parents, etc.”

    Come back and tell us how this works out for you. Until then, you have no right to put down a working mom trying to balance her life and children. As they say the grass isn’t always greener. Enjoy the fairy tale of playing super woman.

  • au napptural

    Feminism is the scapegoat for life. It’s the reason for rape, divorce, lesbianism, war, tears, etc. I swear to hear these people tell it life before feminism was rainbows, lollipops, puppies, and orgies. Anyways, as to the article, I agree. It’s the jacked up economic situation that forces us, men and women, to have two income households just to survive, let alone have luxuries. I can’t imagine my mother supporting our household growing up alone and I’m 23. Today, it would be wholly impossible. Either a single parent would have to work two jobs or have gov’t assistance. Alone? Not an option.

    I also identify as a womanist but I appreciate the work feminism has done. And I hate to hear it unfairly maligned by people who don’t even understand the word.

  • AL

    I think the author and Williams both have a point. Mothers choose to work for a variety of reasons. The economy requires a two income household for many families to survive. The divorce rate doesn’t leave women feeling confident that they can sacrifice their financial independence to rear their children. Some mothers just don’t see anything wrong with having others help them raise their children (i.e. daycare, extended family). After all it takes a village.
    The judgement and hostility between the two groups is unnecessary, and only makes things worse for women. Mothers need to respect eachother’s choices, and support one another in the choices they have made for their families.

  • isolde

    @Nicky – being a stay at home mom was a choice. Through my personal experience I saw how children did not receive the basic care and raising because mom had to work. “I chose not to be one of those parents who complained about not being able to spend time with my kids while expecting others to take on my duties.”
    _______________________________________________________

    @heart of gold

    LaShaun, is that you? I believe the question posed before you was, “Who is making the “bread” while you stay at home with your kids?Some how somone is making it possible for you to be able not to work and take care of your kids.”

    Unless, you’re independently wealthy, then your choice is being subsidized by someone. What exactly are the duties of your sperm donor (assuming that your child isn’t adopted), pray tell?

  • isolde

    “What’s really strange is how a gay, black, feminist woman is now posed as the voice of motherhood. Oh, the irony.”

    @seventeen

    Oh, I get it. So, because someone dare acknowledge that there are mothers who exist that aren’t hetero, then that means that gay, black feminist women are now the predominant voice of motherhood.

    . . . and ya’ll wonder why I don’t comment here much anymore

  • isolde

    I think the author and Williams both have a point.

    @AL

    Yeah, but what point does Williams have, when she makes statements such as this . . .
    ___________________________________________________________________
    “We should question why so many of us are working — single and married women alike.”
    __________________________________________________________________

    Like, someone really has to tell LaShaun Williams why not only married but SINGLE women are working? O’rlly? And this is the chick that gets a piece published on the site for the New York effing Times? LMFAO, I cannot.

    or what about this gem . . .
    __________________________________________________________

    “And, for that (working mothers feeling guilt or anxiety), we can blame feminism — a movement that, while liberating women to follow their dreams, devalued marriage and the familial and societal benefits of homemaking and encouraged self-indulgence.”
    ______________________________________________________________

    Funny how it’s only a mother’s employment outside the home is encouraging self-indulgence. Are fathers self indulgent for following their dreams or working outside the home? Does a man’s decision to work outside the home devalue the societal benefits of marriage and homemaking?

    This @#&!% (LaShaun Williams) is too messy for words.

  • seventeen

    It has been asserted that gays are born that way, therefore; it is troubling to now read of homosexual women feminizing motherhood.

    If, for example, they are adoptive parents then I could understand their confusion concerning the process of a heterosexual women’s life.

    Personally, after giving birth, I could care less about a job. My first concerns were (obviously) recuperating from labor/delivery and caring for my newborn infant.

    The term used in the article – “attachment parenting” – was particularly annoying. Separation between a natural mother and her child is nothing short of a sacrifice.
    Although some deem it necessary – it is almost negligent, and could be considered abusive.

    Homo-Mom should stay in her own lane.

  • heartofGOLD

    I find it amazing how no one is addressing the excuse that feminism allows women to neglect their duties. You all want to address how it’s your wish for the American dream, or wonder how Im supported, or how corporate greed takes away from your parental duties, but no one addressed my initial statement. So continue to run amok…allow your busy lives to take away from your children…allow your single parent state to continue to destroy our community.

  • CHE

    *Heart of gold* is natalie- thats why she is evading and deflecting….She always posts whenever there is an article on feminism. She believes feminism is solely or the major reason for the breakdown of the Black family and community. In other words….ITS ALL YALLS FAULT, BLACK WOMEN! Get back into the kitchen and be submissive and all will be well.

    Yeah!

    *Sigh*

    And right behind her will be the BBMs.

  • QofNewcastle

    @Nicky

    “As a young woman of color i often wonder about how much personal time i will have to sacrifice with my future children in order to provide the financially stable life i feel they should receive.”

    Your choice of words is indicative of the problem. Your “personal time” versus your own children. I wouldnt want to be your kids. Mothers make a choice to have children. They dont come by surprise via stork

  • QofNewcastle

    @heartofGOLD

    I sympathise with your position. You are making a sacrifice for the children you decided to have and you are following up on that decision by making your children your priority. Your children arent apart of your “To Do List” and I greatly admire you and your family for that. God Bless.

  • QofNewcastle

    @Anonymous

    “Come back and tell us how this works out for you. Until then, you have no right to put down a working mom trying to balance her life and children. As they say the grass isn’t always greener. Enjoy the fairy tale of playing super woman.”

    Actually its going to work out quite nicely for her children if the research is correct. And contrary to popular yet biased belief, the grass is greener on the other side. Children are happier at home with mommy and not at a day care where they are subject to neglect, abuse, harassment and the common cold.

  • QofNewcastle

    @CHE

    “Get back into the kitchen and be submissive and all will be well.”

    What an ugly characterisation. Black women cant “get back” to a place she never was i.e. in the kitchen and being submissive.

  • QofNewcastle

    @CHE

    “Get back into the kitchen and be submissive and all will be well.”

    What an ugly characterisation. Black women cant “get back” to a place she never was i.e. in the kitchen and being submissive. ..

  • QofNewcastle

    @BFDuster

    “Yes because we ALL know that wanting to be treated like a human being is the reason why children are suffering… it couldn’t possibly be that working parents are being overworked and underpaid!”

    Americans and black Americans in particular have a problem with living within their means. Go in your closet and count the number of shoes you have that look exactly the same that you probably didnt need but bought anyway. Thats where your money is. People have to work work and work because they like to spend spend and spend. And with the recent report that black women, during their prime working age have virtually little net worth, we have NOTHING to show for all this work were are doing but an empty bank account and deprived children.

  • QofNewcastle

    @LemonNLime

    “Those aren’t “feminist rights”, it’s the freedom to choose to do what you want with the one life you have.”

    Yes, and what you did was choose to have kids. Now that responsibility of caring for them is on you.

    “Not everyone is able to stay home with their kids, if they could have you would have been out of a job.”

    Yes and if there was no crime, the police would be out of a job.

    “Count yourself lucky you can stay at home.”

    Her children are the lucky ones. They get to be raised by the person who birthed them.

    “And women with kids kill me with this stuff.”

    What stuff? Fulfilling their obligation to the people they decided to bring to term?

    “Having kids doesn’t make you this saintly martyr and those of us who CHOOSE not to have kids don’t all do it bc we are selfish or too independent. ”

    It doesnt make you a saint but it does make you a parent and thats the most important job you have in spite of it not being attached to a pay check. Today’s woman must respect that there are some jobs that are important even if they dont get paid for it.

    She never told you to quit your job and have kids.

  • QofNewcastle

    @Nicky

    “Ppl seperate or divorce with a passion these days. Everyone’s concerned with their own happiness and staying together for the sake of children can prove to be the worst choice. What happens if dad leaves? How does mommy pay the bills?”

    Uh, people dont divorce, women divorce. Actually staying together for the children isnt the worst choice. I’ve read some research that states that children are better off in “bad” marriages than even worse divorce. What happens when dad leaves? How often does dad leave? Not very often. Thats a lie thought up by feminist. Its women who break up families not men. Apparently money is the most often cited reason for divorce in America.

  • QofNewcastle

    @H

    Dont blame the quest for the American Dream on why people, who decided to have children, can no longer raise them. There was a time when the American dream was a nice home, a dog and a white picket fence. Now its 30 pairs of shoes, three cars, vacations, flat screen T.Vs in every room, cable T.V. with the premium package, eating out every night, a vacation home, etc. The American Dream isnt why people are broke.

  • QofNewcastle

    @heartofGOLD

    I suspect most of the consternation emanating from these women is due to the possibility that you have a man in the home. They dont.

  • QofNewcastle

    @AL

    “The divorce rate doesn’t leave women feeling confident that they can sacrifice their financial independence to rear their children.”

    Women are more likely to initiate a divorce than men. Money is the number one reason cited for divorce. Women have more of their OWN money when they have a man. They create their own financial chaos.

  • QofNewcastle

    @isolde

    “Does a man’s decision to work outside the home devalue the societal benefits of marriage and homemaking?”

    Its the absence of parenting thats the problem not who is or isnt working.

  • isolde

    “It has been asserted that gays are born that way, therefore; it is troubling to now read of homosexual women feminizing motherhood.”
    ____________________________________________________________________
    @seventeen

    Your homophobia is showing even worse than the poor quality of your education. Homosexual women are women, and if they are mothers, then they are doing no more to “feminize motherhood” than you are legitimizing your ignorance with each of your inane comments.
    ____________________________________________________________________

    “If, for example, they are adoptive parents then I could understand their confusion concerning the process of a heterosexual women’s life.”
    ____________________________________________________________________

    You’re level of critical thinking is almost as good as LaShaun’s. First of all, newsflash sis, plenty of lesbian women have biological children. So, you’re dumb@ss assertion that lesbian mothers can only experience motherhood or form families through adoption is absurd.

    The changes that are supposedly coming this site (I’ll believe it when I see it) which supposedly involve pre-approving commenters will at the very least raise the level of debate. Blatant homophobic remarks (Homo-mom) really shouldn’t have a place here.

  • ExpatInSwiss

    Im on both sides of the fence.

    My take from the article is that if given the opportunity of choice, the author will choose work over staying at home. In my opinion, with the state of kids today and given the opprotunity, staying home is the better choice. Children today have less guidance, spend less time with parents then before. Today’s kids are raised by tv and video games. And today’s cartoons and video games are more violent than a Quentin Tarantino movie.

    @H and BFDuster – of course there are mothers who do have to work. But according to your statements there are mothers who choosing to be overworked or make sure they have the 5 bedroom, 3 car garage over having the chance to be wit their children more hours a day. In today’s world, with parental guidance, our kids are losing. And @BFDuster, since you mentioned Christianity, I believe this is part of the plan to ruin the family. Destroy the family, it’s easier for the enemy to get in.

    @Anonymous – you proved @Heart’s point. You asked her to check back in after she is working. In others words we’ll she how well she’ll handle her parental duties when se goes back to work. Her point is that mothers are neglecting their duties for the sake of working.

    @Heart – I am also a stay at home mom. But I live in Switzerland. A country that mandates people are paid a living wage and family values are important. Stay at home moms are the norm (children here come home for lunch; therefore, mom cant work). I agree with your position; however,your tone lacks empathy and a real understanding of societal conditions.

  • ExpatInSwiss

    Please excuse the many typos. Im typing with one hand

  • H

    @ExpatinSwiss But you’ve mentioned the problem. I don’t think it’s working mothers because they do many of the same things stay at home mothers do. In my opinion after five years old, the stay at home mother is not doing more than the working mother because the kids are in school. The problem with children today has to do with what we are letting our kids do when they come home from school. They are too violent and sexually mature because a lot of mothers (working and stay at home) let them watch too much TV where they pick up bad behavior. If the children of working women are worse, it is probably because when they come home they are tired, so they let the TV entertain the children so that they can rest. I think this is the real problem. Working mothers must make sure that they are spending that TV time with their children reading with them, playing outside with them, or whatever. Sure this is hard because you are tired, but as someone mentioned you are a mother. This is a part of your responsibility, and mothers have to sacrifice for their children.

    I’m just one of those people that thinks that the TV is ruining our children. If mothers stay at home and still don’t do these things, you would probably see the same behavior. Parents are coming home from work and relaxing in front of the TV while the kids watch rap videos on YouTube. They’re shopping on the weekends instead of taking the kids to the park. Parents just don’t know how to raise good kids anymore, and I don’t think women going to work is the problem. Working mothers who make spending their free time with their children a priority can raise and have raised very good kids.

  • Chika

    @QoNewcastle
    “Women are more likely to initiate a divorce than men”

    You’ve said that a lot in the past. I’m curious, I’ve done a little researching on the internet one afternoon when I was bored and I’ve yet to find a statistic corroborating your claim. So are you speaking from personal experience or are you citing cold hard facts that have been collected by some time of census bureau? Also, regardless of whether your statement is your own opinion or fact, doesn’t it take both the man and the woman to sign divorce papers? So isn’t a divorce a result of the actions of both men and women. I’m not asking these questions out of hostility. I’m interested in hearing your answers.

  • Toppin (Formerly Known As Just Sayin’)

    People here REALLY need to start ignoring QON because the chick clearly has some issues with women (particularly black women) in general.

    Yes, women do initiate most divorces. Why? Because more often than not MEN are the individuals that screw up in marriage. Here is a list of the top ten reasons people divorce:

    http://www.buzzle.com/articles/top-reasons-for-divorce-in-america.html

    Notice the top reason is NOT money….nor has it ever been.

  • Dreaming

    Apple We have a lot in common in certain regards.

  • heartofGOLD

    @H – That’s the point Im trying to make. Being too tired to read to your child, or to ensure you cook everyday, or relying on the school to feed your child breakfast (only to complain it’s not healthy enough), or fighting like cats and dogs of Black Friday for rated R video games…the computer, tv video games have become baby sitters because mom is too tired from working to read, talk, cook, clean, attend school meetings, enforce rules, and so on. Women fought for the right to work, but now use it as an excuse to not properly raise their children. My comment is not that women shouldnt work it’s that women shouldnt sacrifice their parental duties because they work.

  • H

    @heartofGold Well. I do agree with you on that. I have mentioned on a previous article that this is a big problem in the black community where there is no father figure. Black mothers must do it all, and they are falling short. The “I don’t need a man” mentality doesn’t work when you are not financially stable and have children to take care of on your own. Our communities are full of unsuccessful matriarchies with siblings raising each other b/c mommy is at work. Out of wedlock children and fatherless households is not something that can be magically corrected though.

    I have mentioned that I think the bad behavior of black boys in these neighborhoods does have a lot to do with not having a father. But it is not impossible for a single mother to raise a boy on her own. These women just are not making the extra effort to play outside with these boys, take them fishing, read books to them, instill in them good values such as honesty and integrity, put them in mentoring programs where they are around young men, and encourage them to excel in school. It is hard for these single mothers b/c they HAVE to work, clean, and cook. But they must make every effort to spend time with these boys. Not using your free time to keep these boys off the Internet and away from Soul Calibur, drug dealers on the street, bad messages in rap music, and porn at a young age is the reason why so many black boys are growing up to be thieves, murderers, rapists, and drug dealers.

    Many people don’t agree with me, and say that I’m excusing the fathers. I am not. So I agree with you on that, but I still think that any working mother that puts time and effort into both work and her children can raise good children. These mothers are just falling short, but I don’t think we should be blaming feminism or their desire to work. We should blame their ignorance and for some of them, outright laziness.

  • LemonnLime

    She has been saying that since I have been on this site and I have yet to see her site any proof of this statistic she always throws out. I can make up stats too: 9 out of 10 people who make up facts and statistics also enjoy shaving cat butts. See how easy it is?

  • BFDuster

    ExpatInSwiss or whatever your name is, like it or not, women need work. There are thousands of different scenarios that end up with overworked and underpaid women. That and if you’re simply going point and judge so you can feel good about yourself, you need to quit Christianity entirely. Jesus don’t play that shit.

  • ExpatInSwiss

    @BFDuster – My intent was not to judge, but to state my opinion. Just like the author has an opinion concerning LaShaun’s article. I have an opinion concerning her article and the comments.

    @H – I agree with you 100%

  • ExpatInSwiss

    One issue with this site is that when commentors have opposing views many will respond in a very non tactful manner. Not agreeing with you doesnt mean someone is judging you. Having a different view doesnt mean people are looking down on you. People can respectfully disagree, can they not?

    God Bless

  • http://www.momonaspiritualjourney.com Sarah Lawrence Hinson

    Brilliant article.

    Not heard this said better anywhere else yet. Telling it like it is…

    “Whether you are a working mother or a stay-at-home mother — with the exception of Anne Romney — parenting a child from infancy to adulthood is back-breaking work. The pressure to engage in this new paint-by-numbers attachment parenting, as well as co-sleeping, going to Mommy and me play groups, etc. may be something that some women aspire to, but it certainly is not something all women want or need for that matter.”

    “…Perhaps it’s time that we remember that the common denominator here is patriarchy and capitalism, not other women.”

    Tough to see in print, but the truth.

    Sarah
    A Mom On A Spiritual Journey!

  • sroberts00

    Hi Nicky,

    I understand the issues that you struggle and I think all mature, responsible women struggle with of wanting a whole life and the difficulty with maintaining that when it comes to the decision of raising children.

    Please ignore anything QofNewcastle says as she clearly has some very backward views about relationships/families and pretty much everything else under the sun.

    She clearly takes some very basic statistics and skews them to suit her needs and agenda, such as the notion that women need a man to make their lives complete.

    I’m sure if and when you choose to have children, they’ll be all the better off for the fact that you were honest about you concerns in addressing your own needs as well as theirs.

  • Humanista

    QofNewcastle:

    Oi. Please re-read that sentence. It seems clear Nicky is using “personal time” to refer to the quality time spent WITH her children NOT away from them, and is implying that work would take away from that…

    “i often wonder about how much personal time i will have to sacrifice with my future children in order to provide the financially stable life i feel they should receive” = personal time with children vs. working to secure them financially.

  • LemonnLime

    @Anonymous – When I saw that post I almost fell out of my seat! Considering she has had so many hateful things to say in the past about black women. She won’t have any black female friends if she talks to them the way she talks about black women on here. Honestly I think she is reigning it in since they are going to start approving all comments before they are posted.

  • seventeen

    Isolde…No, I don’t approve of homosexuality. Nor, do I approve of Homosexual Moms.

    Moving on…

  • Dreaming

    Mwuahhahahaha, LemonNLime – That’s exactly what she/he is doing.

  • Alexandra

    Great article and points, I really enjoyed reading the varying points in the comment section. I was raised to work (not sure if feminism is to blame here), and regardless of that fact I personally have enjoyed my independence and the importance of more than one income. With the questioning of whether women should work or not, I don’t see what’s hard to understand. Times are hard today and two incomes are better than one. The push for women to work obviously came from somewhere, and adding race to the picture tells a different story, but I don’t think it solely came from feminism. Ugh. I probably have so much more to say about this, but I don’t feel like typing a lot. Great discussion though.

  • isolde

    “Isolde…No, I don’t approve of homosexuality. Nor, do I approve of Homosexual Moms.”
    ____________________________________________________________________

    @seventeen

    Oh really? I would’ve never known . . .

    “I (seventeen) am an idiot, homophobe, and I don’t even have the where with all to be discreet about my ignorance in public.”

    There, fixed.

  • http:www.chicnoirhouse.blogspot.com Chic Noir

    co sign au napptural.

  • isolde

    “People here REALLY need to start ignoring QON because the chick clearly has some issues with women (particularly black women) in general.”

    @Toppin

    Seriously, I thought at this point, that ignoring Jester of New Castle was a given. How many times are people going to fall for its tired bait and switch derailing tactics and ficticious research that it always swears by but never produces so it can be vetted?

  • seventeen

    Oh, so you’re the funny type. Interesting.

  • EssDot323

    Excellent article.

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