<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Mind Over Manners</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/</link>
	<description>Smart &#38; Fly &#124; clutchmagonline.com</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 08:18:13 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: 2 way street</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-4/#comment-297100</link>
		<dc:creator>2 way street</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2012 10:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-297100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I haven&#039;t seen this mentioned yet: &quot;Chivalry is dead, but women killed it.&quot; Women want to be made to feel special, but they also want to be equal. Those two things are completely contradictory. Much if not all of the women&#039;s rights movement was predicated on the idea that women and men are equal on all accounts, that they deserve the same things. 

What those activists were going up against was a system that had a particular set of expectations from women, and another set of expectations from men. Women were expected to stay at home, cook for the family, make sure the man was content, etc. Men were supposed to make enough money to feed everyone, protect the family, be the main enforcer of child discipline, etc. These roles were carried further in this system to say that an extension of protecting women was to participate in a set of small courtesies, like opening car doors, pulling out dinner chairs, that sort of thing. In turn, women were to make sure they took care of their looks, had dinner ready when their husbands got home, all that. Then the activists said, &quot;Hey, listen up. We think your system is stupid. We are smart and responsible enough to vote. We do just as much work, and there is no basis for paying men more to do the same thing. We want to abandon your system, and we want to prove that we really are equal.&quot; 

In abandoning and replacing that system, women also must come to terms with the fact that if they don&#039;t want to be stuck in a kitchen or at a secretary&#039;s desk by default, then they should also expect the courtesies extended to women under that patriarchal system to disappear. If anything, those courtesies stem from a male desire to be needed. On a deep, unacknowledged layer, they allow the man to feel like he is completing something weak - perpetuating the idea that women are prim, prissy, and fragile. If women still want those courtesies to be extended to them simply because they have a vagina and breasts, they should also be ready for the forms of discrimination that say that those breasts and that vagina should bar them from the voting booth. Holding the door for someone is a courtesy, as is giving up a chance at a empty seat. If the rest of the patriarchal system is out the door, then those actions should and must become unhinged altogether from gender. I realize that it may seem as if I am saying that voting and holding a door are similar things - I&#039;m not. But I am saying that the system that said women couldn&#039;t vote is also the system that said men should hold doors open for them. 

In case you haven&#039;t guessed yet, I am a man. I hold doors open all the time for people. It&#039;s a courtesy that I enjoy giving to everyone, not just women. Saying that women are equal doesn&#039;t mean that men should stop holding doors open for women; it means they should stop holding doors open *simply because* they are women. On their part, women should stop expecting that kind of courtesy *simply because* they are women. Your vagina is not some magical door-opening contraption, and a penis is not some kind of ticket into the voting booth. Equal is equal, and courtesy should be based on humanity, not gender. 

Basically, Ms. Harris&#039;s complaint is simply dressed up nostalgia for one of the few bright spots in a societal order that would have brought with it a host of conditions far more infuriating than the loss of an empty subway seat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t seen this mentioned yet: &#8220;Chivalry is dead, but women killed it.&#8221; Women want to be made to feel special, but they also want to be equal. Those two things are completely contradictory. Much if not all of the women&#8217;s rights movement was predicated on the idea that women and men are equal on all accounts, that they deserve the same things. </p>
<p>What those activists were going up against was a system that had a particular set of expectations from women, and another set of expectations from men. Women were expected to stay at home, cook for the family, make sure the man was content, etc. Men were supposed to make enough money to feed everyone, protect the family, be the main enforcer of child discipline, etc. These roles were carried further in this system to say that an extension of protecting women was to participate in a set of small courtesies, like opening car doors, pulling out dinner chairs, that sort of thing. In turn, women were to make sure they took care of their looks, had dinner ready when their husbands got home, all that. Then the activists said, &#8220;Hey, listen up. We think your system is stupid. We are smart and responsible enough to vote. We do just as much work, and there is no basis for paying men more to do the same thing. We want to abandon your system, and we want to prove that we really are equal.&#8221; </p>
<p>In abandoning and replacing that system, women also must come to terms with the fact that if they don&#8217;t want to be stuck in a kitchen or at a secretary&#8217;s desk by default, then they should also expect the courtesies extended to women under that patriarchal system to disappear. If anything, those courtesies stem from a male desire to be needed. On a deep, unacknowledged layer, they allow the man to feel like he is completing something weak &#8211; perpetuating the idea that women are prim, prissy, and fragile. If women still want those courtesies to be extended to them simply because they have a vagina and breasts, they should also be ready for the forms of discrimination that say that those breasts and that vagina should bar them from the voting booth. Holding the door for someone is a courtesy, as is giving up a chance at a empty seat. If the rest of the patriarchal system is out the door, then those actions should and must become unhinged altogether from gender. I realize that it may seem as if I am saying that voting and holding a door are similar things &#8211; I&#8217;m not. But I am saying that the system that said women couldn&#8217;t vote is also the system that said men should hold doors open for them. </p>
<p>In case you haven&#8217;t guessed yet, I am a man. I hold doors open all the time for people. It&#8217;s a courtesy that I enjoy giving to everyone, not just women. Saying that women are equal doesn&#8217;t mean that men should stop holding doors open for women; it means they should stop holding doors open *simply because* they are women. On their part, women should stop expecting that kind of courtesy *simply because* they are women. Your vagina is not some magical door-opening contraption, and a penis is not some kind of ticket into the voting booth. Equal is equal, and courtesy should be based on humanity, not gender. </p>
<p>Basically, Ms. Harris&#8217;s complaint is simply dressed up nostalgia for one of the few bright spots in a societal order that would have brought with it a host of conditions far more infuriating than the loss of an empty subway seat.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-297100" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('297100', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-297100" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('297100', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-297100-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: OHIO_614_GENTLEMAN</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-4/#comment-281043</link>
		<dc:creator>OHIO_614_GENTLEMAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-281043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder how the conversations would be if todays technology existed prior to the 80&#039;s. Somehow there&#039;s this assumption that chivalry was alive and well back then and now it has kicked the bucket. says who? people were nowhere connected as we are today. there was no platform for people to share their experiences.There are always shifts in generations,cultures and socities but the same crap that goes on now,happened back then. Once key difference is that we can talk it about 24/7. I dont believe chivalry is regional either because people will always see things differently. That same guy giving up his seat when youre present,might not when someone else sees him.  

I will open doors,give up seats for anyone. Having manners mean you will extend it to everyone. Its just the kind of man I am,so its not something I 
do for show or because a woman is attractive. Even though I live in ohio,Im from dc and am very familiar with metro. I dont see any difference when im riding the train in toronto,dallas or the buses in columbus,minneapolis or
dallas. Having manners isnt gender specific,so one can&#039;t just point out what men arent doing. I see women all of the time,not give up seats pregnant women,the elderly or men. It seems to only be an issue when a man doesnt do it. If you are not the exact opposite of what you complain about,then you should get some manners.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how the conversations would be if todays technology existed prior to the 80&#8242;s. Somehow there&#8217;s this assumption that chivalry was alive and well back then and now it has kicked the bucket. says who? people were nowhere connected as we are today. there was no platform for people to share their experiences.There are always shifts in generations,cultures and socities but the same crap that goes on now,happened back then. Once key difference is that we can talk it about 24/7. I dont believe chivalry is regional either because people will always see things differently. That same guy giving up his seat when youre present,might not when someone else sees him.  </p>
<p>I will open doors,give up seats for anyone. Having manners mean you will extend it to everyone. Its just the kind of man I am,so its not something I<br />
do for show or because a woman is attractive. Even though I live in ohio,Im from dc and am very familiar with metro. I dont see any difference when im riding the train in toronto,dallas or the buses in columbus,minneapolis or<br />
dallas. Having manners isnt gender specific,so one can&#8217;t just point out what men arent doing. I see women all of the time,not give up seats pregnant women,the elderly or men. It seems to only be an issue when a man doesnt do it. If you are not the exact opposite of what you complain about,then you should get some manners.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-281043" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('281043', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-281043" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('281043', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-281043-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Natalat</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-2/#comment-280949</link>
		<dc:creator>Natalat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-280949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[+1 This is totally American men. In the Caribbean/Europe the men are much sweeter]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1 This is totally American men. In the Caribbean/Europe the men are much sweeter</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-280949" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280949', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-280949" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280949', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-280949-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: emftn@verizon.net</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-4/#comment-280911</link>
		<dc:creator>emftn@verizon.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-280911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the Metro, I have been offered a seat on many occassions by young African American men, some with sagging pants and locs. I think the issue in the author&#039;s case was the man was wearing a suit.  At my job, Black men of all ages that do some type of manual labor will speak most of the time.  Black men in suits that do not work in my department generally do not speak.  I think some Black men turn in their card when they wear a suit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the Metro, I have been offered a seat on many occassions by young African American men, some with sagging pants and locs. I think the issue in the author&#8217;s case was the man was wearing a suit.  At my job, Black men of all ages that do some type of manual labor will speak most of the time.  Black men in suits that do not work in my department generally do not speak.  I think some Black men turn in their card when they wear a suit.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-280911" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280911', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-280911" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280911', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-280911-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Please</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-4/#comment-280841</link>
		<dc:creator>Please</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-280841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*Our men*

*Im in love with hip hop*

sigh

never mind]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*Our men*</p>
<p>*Im in love with hip hop*</p>
<p>sigh</p>
<p>never mind</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-280841" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280841', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-280841" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280841', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-280841-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: my_reply</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-2/#comment-280838</link>
		<dc:creator>my_reply</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 21:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-280838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@JT - Another blame black women comment. Feminism encouraged women to be self sufficient. That should make you happy. You all are always worrying about those gold diggers. Now a woman is independent that means you can&#039;t open a door? The matriarchy in the black community exists because men father children and then don&#039;t marry the mother or help with child rearing placing all the responsibility on the mother. Do you think these women prefer being alone or do you think they would like to have a good man around to help? I think the latter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JT &#8211; Another blame black women comment. Feminism encouraged women to be self sufficient. That should make you happy. You all are always worrying about those gold diggers. Now a woman is independent that means you can&#8217;t open a door? The matriarchy in the black community exists because men father children and then don&#8217;t marry the mother or help with child rearing placing all the responsibility on the mother. Do you think these women prefer being alone or do you think they would like to have a good man around to help? I think the latter.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-280838" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280838', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-280838" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280838', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-280838-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Keiko</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-3/#comment-280836</link>
		<dc:creator>Keiko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-280836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It doesn&#039;t even have to be a dark alley.  I could just be a woman walking down the street at any time of day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t even have to be a dark alley.  I could just be a woman walking down the street at any time of day.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-280836" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280836', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-280836" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280836', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-280836-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JuneBug</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-4/#comment-280825</link>
		<dc:creator>JuneBug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-280825</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What I wanted to say was: 

I wonder if he would have allowed a white woman to sit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I wanted to say was: </p>
<p>I wonder if he would have allowed a white woman to sit.</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-280825" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280825', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-280825" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280825', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-280825-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JuneBug</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-3/#comment-280824</link>
		<dc:creator>JuneBug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-280824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[testing again..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>testing again..</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-280824" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280824', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-280824" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280824', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-280824-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: beautyinbaltimore</title>
		<link>http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/06/mind-over-manners/comment-page-3/#comment-280817</link>
		<dc:creator>beautyinbaltimore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clutchmagonline.com/?p=24269#comment-280817</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; In my mind, women are equal to men on every level,&lt;/i&gt;
Except when walking down a dark alley late at night.

I wonder if women will be allowed to box men in the upcoming Olympics?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> In my mind, women are equal to men on every level,</i><br />
Except when walking down a dark alley late at night.</p>
<p>I wonder if women will be allowed to box men in the upcoming Olympics?</p>
<p> <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="up-280817" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280817', 'add', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_');" title="Thumb up" />&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" id="down-280817" src="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/3_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('280817', 'subtract', 'www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '3_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-280817-total" >0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Page Caching using apc
Object Caching 1120/1158 objects using apc

 Served from: www.clutchmagonline.com @ 2013-05-21 05:04:34 by W3 Total Cache -->