Last week, I wrote about a cartoon that idolizes Black women from yesteryear and craps on modern Black women. One of the uplifted qualities of the 70s woman was “knows that she has more power being submissive to her a man.”  Unsurprisingly, many commenters latched onto the idea of submission and rallied against it.

“Submission” has become some sort of weird buzzword. The second a guy—always a guy—throws it into a conversation as a desirable trait, you can bet good money that an argument is about to ensue. It’s an exasperating conversation that women go ape s#@! over. We hear men say it and most of us envision a man wanting a woman akin to Vanessa Bell Calloway’s character in “Coming to America”, the type of woman who answers every question with “whatever you like” and will hop on one foot while barking like a dog—a big dog, if necessary—to please her man. Just the idea of it is enough to make many of us black out as we tough type an enraged response. As much as we try to convince and cajole guys to an enlightened perspective, they rarely budge. Maybe men are just that pigheaded. Or maybe something’s getting lost in interpretation between the language of Venus and Mars.

I like to think that most men are not Neanderthals and there must be some confusion of what many men mean when they say they want a submissive woman. So I asked my Male Mind Squad (if you read A Belle in Brooklyn, you know they address an array of topics in the book), my go-to group of thinking men across the country, ranging from their mid-20s to mid 40s and who are either dateable or would be if they weren’t already committed or married (because that’s the only kind we really want to hear from on these topics.) I prayed their answers wouldn’t reveal that their mindsets were from the Stone Ages.

The Good:

There’s hope. Most of the respondents didn’t expect a woman to submit, or even think she should. They even added some sort of disclaimer to their answers like, “I don’t believe in submission”.

“Submissive women” is an outdated idea from Biblical times,” said one guy. “The notion of a woman’s submission is the same as people believing a woman should wear a head covering or walk 10 steps behind a man. It makes no sense in this modern time and probably never did.”

In so many words, many men said what they wanted was a mutual submission, of sorts, or better, “compromise“. One guy summed it up nicely with: “I want her to be assertive and speak her mind. I do want a partner. I want her to lead in the areas where she is stronger than I…and I want her to do the same where I am stronger.”

Another added, “I don’t want a submissive woman, but I do like women that are confident enough to not always have to assert their independence. ‘Let go’ of perceived power sometimes and let me take on the stereotypical role.”

The Not So Bad:

When a guy says submit, what he’s really saying is—if I can be a Man Whisperer for a moment—he wants you to listen to him (which does NOT mean obey), he doesn’t want a lot of conflict in the relationship, he wants to know that you trust him (his judgment and to provide security) and he wants to at the very least feel like his needs/desires/input matter to you.  I wish they would just say that instead of “submit”, but anyway…

“Some women have too much to say all the damn time and refuse to just listen,” said one man. “Having a perspective and opinion is great but when you’re a control freak and your way is the only way, it will drive that man away… give him at least the illusion that he has some say in the relationship, otherwise he will check out mentally.”

Another explained, “We all want a woman that’s not going to create or feed into conflict based situations. Men are as sensitive and emotional as women, we just mask it in different ways. We ultimately desire partners who make it easier to hide that vulnerability.”

And one just made it simple: “Every once in a while, I just want her to do something she doesn’t want to do, but will do it anyway to make me happy as long as it’s a reasonable request. No man wants to know before he asks that the answer is going to be ‘no’”

The (Sorta) Ugly:

Some guys—and they were in the minority of the group who responded—think they are better at decision making solely by “virtue” of being born men. “Not to sound ancient,” one man began, all but letting me know he was about to say something wild. “But men are normally more logical when it comes to making decisions (versus  being emotional).”

Um… Ok.

Another guy added, “Male genome dictates we take charge. When sh** goes left, it seems men are better equipped to handle the fallout. How many times have you seen a woman get emotional when the s*** hits the fan? Most men just roll up their sleeves. Women, they cry. This is a gross generalization, but it has merit…. Can’t fight Darwin and evolution.”

Others believed strongly in the “natural order” of a hierarchy between man and woman and rigidly defined roles. “ I like a woman who not only accepts her role in the natural order of family and community––nurturer and builder of child and man––but swims in it, needs to succeed in it. She needs her man to feel successful in his natural role as provider and security (physical, emotional; many times financially), so facilitation is a part of her role’s duty.”

To his credit, he added, “The relationship should be reciprocal FYI. So it’s not about a man wanting a woman who is submissive as in weaker to his strength, but strong in her commitment and surrender to her role as his everything.”

And for some others—even the so-called enlightened ones—they wanted the ability to pull rank.  “I want to hear her point of view and opinion,” said one. “But I want my word to be the last word. Kind of like the President of a company does with his VP’s. There can only be one chief.”


Demetria L. Lucas the author of A Belle in Brooklyn: The Go-to Girl for Advice on Living Your Best Single Life. ABIB is available to download and now in paperback. Follow her on Twitter at @abelleinbk



  1. I’ve read many of these comments and agree with some and not with others, I do wish though, that we in this country and perhaps the world could respect other’s differences of opinions without insulting or denigrating each other. But of the comments, @dee made comments which more closely mirror my own. I also believe the bigger issue is that women would have no problem submitting to me if they feel the man has the capacity to be a leader. And I’m sorry, but just the fact of having male genitalia does not make one a great leader or great head of household. Additionally, if the assumption is that women should submit to men to ensure household harmony, how does that equate in the homosexual household. And no, I’m not a lesbian, though I have no problem with being gay and will go as far as to say I believe some people in homosexual relationships were born gay. But, I also believe some people in homosexual relationships are not gay. Anyway, I’ve heard comments that women of racial/ethnic groups than black women have no problem submitting. I believe this is untrue. I don’t have any statistics to support this, it just is my opinion and observation. I work for a federal law enforcement agency and from discussions I have had with some of them, mostly male and white, and all of whom are Supervisory Special Agents providing leadership to a group of Special Agents at many levels from unit/squad to executives responsible for entire branches, I have come away with the idea that not all white women (for instance) are submissive and not all white men want submissive women. I’ve also heard that white women never say they don’t need a man. I had a conversation one evening with three other women, all white. Now I will admit I wasn’t fully attentive the entire time and didn’t actually hear the one woman say she did not need a man, what I heard was the response of one of the other women. The other woman’s response was, “We desire a man and because we have the desire, it becomes a need.” And I said, “You don’t have a problem letting a man take charge, you just don’t want a man to try to control you.” And that woman responded, “right”. Before the comment she made that I missed, she had told a story of how she met a guy and they hit it off quite well. She is very physically fit (as are many in agency in that career path, they have to be fit, and have either annual or biannual “fit tests”. This woman exudes confidence in her stature within the agency as well as her femininity. But she met this guy and after dating some time they decided to take a vacation to France. She said prior to leaving she liked his take charge attitude and she seemed he was just that, a take charge kind of guy. Anyway, so they go to Paris and things were fine. Afterwards, they went to another area of France and when they were en route, he made a comment that because his french was better than her’s, she should let him do most of the talking and handle everything. She said it was at this point she realized he was not a take charge guy, but a controlling guy. She said she ended things when she returned to the U.S. The other story I’ll tell is of a white guy, also a Supervisory Special Agent. I known he is Catholic, and I thought he would be down with the notion of submission. But it was just the opposite, what he said is that he and his current wife are very suited for each other and they respect each other’s opinion. He said they have more of an equal marriage where if they don’t agree on something, they don’t do it. He said unlike his first wife, who could not be reasoned with, he and his current wife work through issues. The reason I referenced these stories is that I believe, as someone else posted here, everyone is an individual. You can not look at any one person (any race or gender) and fully determine just from their looks, what their personal philosophy is. Love, respect and compromise should be a part of any relationship. But if you are a man and based on your own personal ideals about submission, you want a submissive partner, find one who shares your vision and ideals. Don’t try to change a woman to fit your ideals. And the same goes for women. Finally, I will address a couple more issues, one is that not all black women have “attitudes” and there are some white women who do have “attitudes”. The other thing I’ll address is the statement women sometimes make in saying, “I don’t need a man.” Mostly when women make that statement they mean it as a caveat. They mean they don’t need a man who is disrespectful, or abusive, or unfaithful, etc. The women only mean they don’t need just any man, but they need a man who is respectful, non-abusive, faithful, etc. Because most of those who women say they don’t need a man (myself included) would not make that statement if they met a man who they were compatible with.

  2. “…some are listing of well he is a good provider, father, protector, etc. well he is being an ADULT in a relationship those aren’t perks but things you are suppose to look for in a mate these qualities does not require submission.”

    Very true indeed!

  3. Odile

    Black men will soon have to seek out an entirely new species. Check out white women teaming up and outing Matthew Couloute Jr.

    Wife turns against cyber-slammed ‘cad’
    August 19, 2012

    “I’ve been patient, forgiving, supportive, taken advantage of, used in his custody battle & used as a bank. Life catches up w/u.”

  4. BLACK WOMEN- Here is my question to you: Why do you feel that you are obligated to be with black men? Why do you feel that you have to build up the black community? Why is it so difficult for you to separate your ethnic identity from your needs as a woman? Why has the black community been so selfish as to make you choose? What if I suggested to you that it was already dead and there is just nothing you can do about it? You clearly do not receive reciprocity from black males on a wide scale, so why worry about doing anything with them? I challenge you to question your commitment to nationalism! You have no obligation to build ANYTHING or submit to ANYONE! You are being used as MULES. Before you dismiss me as a raging feminazi, please at least take 10 minutes to consider what I am saying. JUST 10 MINUTES! And then you don’t ever have to think about it again if you don’t want to but the next time you see black men bash or say something hurtful about black women, I hope you do. Where have black women NOT been willing to work with black men? Where have they NOT been there for them? Why do they feel so comfortable bashing you? What if what I am saying really is true? What if you are being gaslighted? You have been led to believe that all the ills that plague the black (un)community lie in a dysfunctional black womanhood. I am suggesting to you that this is a LIE and that you are being used as scapegoats for black men’s failure to actually lead anything. If you want to dismiss this and continue to be used then ok. But in all humility I ask you that before you do, you really do give what I am saying 10 minutes of honest thought. Peace.

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