Screw Your Good Ol’ Days

by Demetria L. Lucas

 

Have you seen this cartoon? It’s been making the rounds on social media, at least among my uber-educated, well-connected circles, and surely yours as well. I ignored it the first time I saw it, rolled my eyes the second, and when a “friend” who I respect and thought knew better added it to her status update and declared herself a “’70s lady,” I finally decided to address it.

Um…. What it implies is bull$#@!. Earlier this year, I was on a 17-hour flight back from South Africa and killed time watching Woody Allen’s “Midnight in Paris,” which won Best Original Screenplay at the 2012 Academy Awards. Loosely, it’s about a guy (Owen Wilson) who idolizes the past and (whoops! ) stumbles back in time to a period he thinks is superior. There, he meets this woman from that prior time who has also stumbled back to the era before her own and thinks that it is even better. It’s a cycle. By the end of the film, Wilson’s character realizes that there’s no time like the present, and he might as well make the most of the time he has.

That is the same point I’d like to make here. No disrespect to my mother’s heyday, or for some of the ladies reading, your granny’s. I’m sure there were lovely women galore, and I don’t mean to denigrate anyone in any way. But to pretend that the women of one era were so far superior and the values of all black women now have gone to hell in a Louis Vuitton hand basket (because we’re all sooo materialistic) is crap. That’s it. Crap.

I will give it to black women of that era; they had better PR. They didn’t have many images, and when they finally got put on, they presented their best — at first. The Seventies gave us the debut of Essence, the first widely distributed publication for black women, and “For Colored Girls …,” which was brilliance personified. But it also gave us free love (i.e., promiscuity) and Blaxploitation flicks, which prominently featured black pimps and “hoes” and cocaine use as iconic. It wasn’t all gravy.

I’ll join the chorus to say we, black folk, got problems: Piss-poor graduation rates, the number of children born out of wedlock or even into committed relationships, and the number of people incarcerated are issues that need addressing — not just criticizing — by us, even if we weren’t the ones who got that trend rolling down hill. I admit that. But to make lace-front-wearing gold diggers who don’t know the difference between a pot and a pan the face of the current generation of black women isn’t just unfair; it’s also inaccurate. So is linking submission to men as a virtue and labeling “strong” and “independent” women as a vice. Please explain to me how it benefits black women or the black race as a whole to have women who are weak and dependent.

I’ll wait.

Black women are as varied, contradictory, and multi-faceted as any other race of ladies. But when those other women get portrayed as loose, gold-digging, and otherwise unsavory, it’s presented as one representation of the women their race embodies, not the part that represents the whole. Of course, there are the women among us who could do better, who should know better, or who weren’t taught better (or just didn’t listen). But there are a whole host of us, too, who were raised by those good ol’ days and duly praised women of the Seventies who embody their likeness, literally and figuratively, and still carry ourselves with the best of their values, morals, and common sense. The intersection of our race and gender shouldn’t inherently have us all portrayed as ratchet.

I know Katt Williams isn’t a philosopher, and his pimp-schtick, vulgarity, and “complicated” personal life don’t make him necessarily a go-to person to be quoted, but when he’s lucid he drops bombs. And one of them from his comedy act was about women who complain about all men not being worthwhile:  “If you 25 years old and still walking around talking about [men] ain’t sh#!, you need to get a handle on your [expletive] life and take some responsibility. What you mean to say is you need to figure out what it is about [you] that keep attracting ain’t [expletive]  n—s. That’s your own personal business.”

The same applies for men — and women, too – who see comparisons like the cartoon above in a friend’s Facebook status and click “like” to co-sign madness. If every black woman you currently encounter is a money-hungry, disagreeable, shameless mess and you just have to let everyone who follows you know, I have to ask what’s wrong with you that you keep attracting that type of woman into your personal space? All black women ain’t bad, but the bad ones who exist and you keep encountering or attracting one another? What they all have in common, actually, is you.

Demetria L. Lucas is the author of A Belle in Brooklyn: The Go-to Girl for Advice on Living Your Best Single Life. ABIB is available to download and now in paperback. Follow her on Twitter at @abelleinbk.

  • ChillyRoad

    I think black men have been better at dismissing thugs, deadbeats, and losers better than black women have been wit their female equivalent.

    I think the good decent and moral black people need to separate themselves from the bad instead of separating themselves from black men or women. We can’t good black people find common ground?

  • http://akamissi.wordpress.com akamissi

    Well Said. People will always feed into stereotypes. They are the same people who give reality shows that represents us (African American Women / Men) in a negative way, the ratings. I can’t tell you how pissed off I was when I heard on the news that Love and Hip Hop was the number 1 reality show. Really? For years, I have blamed the media for these images and I pray for better.

  • Ms. Write

    Thanks for this, Demetria! This actually was circulating in my news feed about two months ago and I addressed it as absurd then. The thing with social media is that everyone with access to an Instagram or a Meme generator is now a philosopher all of a sudden. And people just buy into it by adding it to their own timeline without thinking twice. SMH

  • Nope

    Lol. I had not seen this, but I have found myself on the “I hate black women” side of YouTube a couple of times too many. You might think that they’re addressing the hoodrats, but as you listen, you will see that they think all black women are hoodrats. Well some of them have come up with 90% lol. There are a couple of men who comment on this website who have broken down the numbers and statistics themselves. The sage ones here have decided that 80% of black women are ratchet. I’m sure they came up with that number from having a couple of bad relationships with black women, rejections in the club by hoodrats, and from watching Love and Hip Hop and music videos. That submissive thing is definitely a big one that they go on and on about. I can take criticism. SOME black women are too argumentative, but there are plenty of black women who aren’t argumentative and difficult that don’t submit. They hate strong and independent women. What’s wrong with a woman with a career paying her own bills? Don’t fall for that. Being the opposite of that will get you labeled a gold digger. They even hate women who like Beyonce. Hoodrats are the female equivalent of thugs. It’s annoying how some black man on the Internet try to make it seem like 90% of black women are so horrible, but only 10% of black men are acting a fool. These idiots think we got a 70% illegitimacy rate because black women like thugs. Videos are all over YouTube talking about your thug lovin ways ladies. Because in there world there are no non-thugs that are baby daddies or cheating or screwing up. In their world, there are all of these Shemar Moores driving moving trucks looking for their perfect woman but being met by selfish, materialistic, shallow, uppity ratchetness.

    Submissive? By submissive these men mean get their way all the time. They mean giving commands and having you do them. They want to go back to the days where a man said jump, and the woman said how high. I don’t miss those days. Also all that submission stuff that they preach about from the bible is about a wife submitting to her husband not girlfriends submitting to husbands or baby mommas submitting to baby daddies.

    All people romanticize earlier eras, but you couldn’t pay me to go back in time. This is just another thing where people place all the blame for problems in the black community on black women because you know we love thugs and have too much attitude.

  • Tami

    I just want to say “Amen” to this article…very well written, thought provoking.

  • http://itsoftenbeensaid.wordpress.com Sasha A.

    Is it okay if I hit the proverbial “like” button cosigning this post?

  • http://twitter.com/sweeternadiah Natasha P (@sweeternadiah)

    I co-sign!

  • SS25

    The good ol days gave us Angela Davis, Anne Moody, Mae Jemison, Nina Simone, and many more women who fight for the rights of black women/people in their own way. Who do we have these days? No one. Everyone is about themselves, trying to build brands and end up on blogs and at parties. That cartoon was point on. Let’s teach the younger generation about self-respect, not just about gettin money.

  • Yb

    The misogyny is this cartoon is mind boggling and contradictory. She has her own self worth but knows she must be submissive and cook for her man. Wtf?

    I think women (particularly black women) gaining rights after the 60′s and 70′s must be a hard think for black men to accept because some are still struggling to accept it today. BW didn’t leave the fields to be indentured servants to our husbands. Smh

    FYI the confused writer of these comics goes by the name Alex L and you can find his bullshitt art throughout black tumblr.

  • Yb

    How has being strong, able to take care of yourself, and being driven to succeed become a character flaw? Da hell?

  • Yb

    You need to brush up on your history if you think those “good old days” for any good for those women. If you don’t think that there are no black women today like you mentioned you are disgustingly ignorant.

  • http://sparkleandboom.wordpress.com Nina Renee

    Damn, girl! Write that!

  • CurlySue

    Wow, what a completely incorrect cartoon. They show a drawing of a black woman from the 60s depicted in the typical “Strong black woman with an afro” meme and then impose a bunch of personality points on her that she would likely never adhere to. There’s no part of that woman that looks like she’d submit to anyone but herself. And cooking/cleaning? Please. A woman like that had battles to fight and status quos to change. Just shows how uninformed the creator was.

  • SS25

    Since you know everything name a few of the women like the ones I mentioned. I think say everything was peachy-keen for these women. I know they struggled, I benefit from those struggles. Get your mind right and watch who you call “disgustingly ignorant”.

  • SS25

    * I didn’t say

  • Erin

    I went off on a Facebook collage similar to the comment above a few months ago on how stupid they all are and how ridiculous people that are actually cosigning them are as well. My homeboy’s argument were that they were used to help the people that are like the negatives see that they are like that. I told him I guarantee those type of men/women don’t care, won’t change because of a stupid collage on Facebook, and are most likely the ones liking them or leaving comments cosigning them. I totally agree with your statement saying that if all the people you are around remind you of negative/toxic individuals, you need to re-evaluate yourself and see what changes you need to make personally or environmentally.

  • alyssaj

    I agree with the cartoon. They is some great truth to it.

  • Karla

    The Artist is named Alex L. He seems like some former thug-turned-artist who now thinks he has a right to preach since he can paint and use photoshop. And in his other cartoons, black men are never held accountable . If black women aren’t blamed, that honor goes to the good ol’ KKK). Overall his messages are not original: don’t sell out to welfare, women need to stop dating thugs, stop supporting non-black businesses in ghettos. In his mind, he just discovered it so it must be new to everyone else.

  • Crystal

    I’m conflicted here. Now the cartoon itself is a contradictory depiction of black women. Yes, we are all different from the ladies on the block to the ladies in the boardroom. No one caricature fits us all. I will say as we have progressed and made significant strides in coming into our identity particularly in this country, some of our sisters have lost or not brought along our values and morals into this new age. I’m not saying we have to go back to the old day of women being subservient or “seen and not heard” but we need more representation on the front end of sisters who walk with integrity, grace, and standards. We each have a voice and it is our responsibility to use it. Your voice is just not in your words but it is exemplified in your walk.

    I’m progressive in my thinking, ideas, and concepts about life but my walk still holds old school values of integrity, respect, grace, and standards mixed in and I’m okay with that.

    We have a lot of work to do as a whole sisters. No one answer is completely right or wrong.

  • Pingback: My Response To…Screw Your Good Ol’ Days « A.K.A. MISSI

  • DookieTurds

    The cartoon is on point. It did not suggest that ALL black women are like this. Why can’t black women own up to the fact that we are out of control. If it doesn’t apply then let it fly but don’t act as if this cartoon is absurd. I’m tired of black women being loud, attitudinal, fat and having babies left and right. This is going on all around us and if someone dares to speak out about it then it’s a problem. Everyone wants to claim “well that doesn’t apply to me and my circle”. Well If it doesn’t apply to you then great but don’t sit up here and act like you don’t see numerous black women with no shame, unladylike and kids galore!

    And yes, the strong independent anthem is annoying. Why brag about paying your own bills? It’s called being an adult and responsible. Why do you want kudos for that? And wearing your education like a Badge of honor doesn’t weigh much in stock when it comes to men. So I wish that would stop also.

    A tired black woman.

  • Cree

    +100000

  • Cree

    SS25, the good ol days also gave us MLK jr, Malcom X, Huey P. Newton, Petey Green, Al Green….

    I don’t believe the bs that black “leaders” or upstanding black people in general are gone or old…I think that no one wants to give them any coverage and quite honestly things are a little different now. The cartoon was foolish.

  • IOpinion

    @Yb

    Please dont talking about what must have been hard for black men because, like black women, they are individuals.

  • Patience

    People love to pick on women.

  • IOpinion

    @Yb

    I dont want to speak for those black men who subscribe to certain anti black women ideaologies but many of them argue that for isntance, Asian women have outpaced every woman in America in terms of their educational, career, and personal/romantic goals without having lost that feminine touch.

  • Yb

    @IP

    Take in to play the portrayal of Asian women in the media, the racial hierarchy scale, their recent immigrant status, yellow fever and the fact that over 50% marry out of their race. Apples and oranges. The two groups cannot be compared from the surface.

    And black women represent the largest percentage of women attending college and gaining degrees. Fyi

    http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72

  • [email protected]

    That cartoon holds some truth to it. Of course it doesn’t apply to every single black woman on the planet. I proudly co-sign.

  • http://designsdelight.com design

    Black people did not have many negative influences, prosperity had not spoiled us.

    I think there was a golden age, Just listen to the Music and compare it will what is being put out.

    Let us be realistic, black people were less corrupt, but the seed of our destruction was laid, hence blaxploitation era.

    Black people are too much into fashion, we need to invest in the retro. I think we are too commercially minded. Hell we have many black multi millionaires. But these people are not giving direction to their people.

    Remember what Malcolm X saw when he left prison? He could not see it before.

    Black people need at least to hide their madness, Little Wayne, Lil Kim, Lil Brain need to sit down.

    We need to listen to Coltrane, Monk and Mingus. Even whites in France can give those people respect, despite their racist instincts.

    We need to appreciate art and we have it in abundance, but we want to celebrate Rick Ross.

    We have a great history, but why are we acting like we are drunken fools.

  • Jess

    who said that women in the ’70s thought being submissive to men was a good idea? First of all, most Black women have NEVER been submissive to men, so who came up with that bull-oney? obviously a black man who wants submissive Black women to appear drew thatcartoon. maybein Africa we were, but 500 years of hardship in the Americas ended all of that! Black women in America have never been submissive to men – just because you know your history, areintelligent, don’thate your hair, or want to look like a white woman definitely does NOT (and never has) mean you are submissive to men of any type – that 70s cartoonis a wore setareotype than the 2009 one. I don’t see Michelle obama or Oprah submitting to ANY men, and they are both from the 70s – or before!

  • Jess

    meant -

    “that 70s cartoonis a WORSE stereotype than the 2009 one. I don’t see Michelle obama or Oprah submitting to ANY men, and they are both from the 70s – or before!”

  • Jess

    Gee, and Michelle Obama and her daughters are sitting up in the White House..and to think, they don’t even know they’ve been outpaced by asian women in Ameica. Can you believe that?? How could the not know they’ve been beaten???

  • Jess

    yup – i knew that cartoon was created by a dude. he got every part of it wrong. and black women from the 50s, 60s and 70s were definitely not submitting to anybody – they were too busy fighting to win!

  • Natalie B.

    For the “artist” to have this opinion of Black women speaks to the company that he keeps, and says more about him than it does the state of Black women that he is attempting to editorialize.

    Yes, there are issues that Black women need face head-on and deal with without trying to mitigate them, but there are also issues Black men need to face head-on without hiding behind some BS entitilement of oppression non-sense.

    Let’s just ignore this fool and let him disappear into obscurity.

  • Hehe

    That cartoon is bullsh!t but what grinds my gear is that submission crap. I don’t subscribe to the bible so i’m not submitting to my S/O. We are partners, we work together. Just because you have a p-nis doesn’t mean you can lead.

  • Nic

    Louis CK does a bit about how white people talk about the good old days but most black people know that the probably shouldn’t venture further back than about 1980. And he’s not lying.

    Look a lot of black men like to support their sexism and misogyny by heaping all of the problems that do currently plague our community at the feet of black women.

    Black women are either all too fat (right, b/c black men are NEVER fat, plus they don’t seem to mind it if it’s on white women-see Chris Rock’s bit on that, funny and true), too loud, have loads of illegitimate babies that just implanted themselves in their wombs, too ghetto (again, b/c that is just a black woman problem), etc.

    But the grossest part of it all for me is that they want to claim that women who won’t just accept anything from them are somehow the problem. Yep, for a lot of them, feminism is the problem. A woman who expects you to have a job, or is educated and can support herself and therefore expects to enter a marriage as an equal partner and not a servant is the problem. The woman who doesn’t just accept that her role is to be your cook, maid, baby factory, and freak is the problem.

    Sorry, but since women of all colors do earn money, go to college and grad school, and can satisfy a lot of their own needs means that you do need to have your act together and not just blame feminists that they don’t want you if you can’t read or spell, have been to jail, have no career options, and have babies scattered all over town. So they don’t need any of that, and they don’t even HAVE to stick to black men if they do want a husband or partner. Women who accept troubled, cheating, angry, and sexist men into their lives trap themselves and their offspring in a death spiral that will continue for generations. We’re really better off if black women do maintain high standards for themselves and the people that they allow into their lives.

    Progress is great. The same progress that got us out of the fields also gets women out of the kitchen .

    So whoever created this sexist cartoon and is sorry that more women don’t let themselves be controlled can keep it moving.

  • Nic

    Yeah, these men are mad that we don’t have to accept whatever abuse and garbage that they want to throw out there. Those days are over, just like slavery.

    They can stay mad. And order take-out.

  • Patience

    I tried googling him, but only found one other cartoon by him. And yea, he is a trip.

  • http://twitter.com/AngelinaTherapy Angie Brown-Gladney (@AngelinaTherapy)

    Very well said! ***clapping**

  • Realistically Speaking

    I agree.

    In that same token I just want more discussion of how we can actually deal with the issues of the people who do in part hold some representation of the stereotype. Saying “not all of us are like that” and waving our degrees in the air while spewing articulate and thoughtful rhetoric in our defense will not change the minds of anyone who chooses to believe in the truth of the stereotype. To me, it almost feels like energy wasted. Stereotypes unfortunately are inescapable as long as it is human nature of the mind to categorize. As for the Black people who cosign media like the cartoon, I’d say they know better but don’t know how to, or are just to lazy to separate the real issues underlying the stereotype, some of which you mentioned in your article. It’s easier to copy and paste a picture to represent a few isolated thoughts than it is to take the time and formally address them. That’s so ironic, choosing a misrepresentation used as a face for another misrepresentation.

    Again, I get your stance and I too hate it. BUT I’m tired of discussing it if we’re not really going to ever take responsibility and face the folks on the other side of the fence.

    As for romanticizing women of the past, that would require again using a minority to represent a majority that we were not present to experience. We look at Black women who were spotlighted for doing great things and suddenly attribute them to the face of an entire era. That’s an irresponsible placing of faith. Especially since I quiver at the thought of women younger than I looking back and thinking of, oh say, Nicki Minaj as representation of me.

    Likewise, looking at our own circle of friends is also a false depiction of our generation and race. Likely you are surrounded by folks who think and subsequently have achieved on the same level as you. That does not mean that your circle is proper representation either, more or less it could be an exception.

    As you stated the numbers are NOT in our favor as Black people as. In fact, those numbers say we are FAR from yelling “Momma, we made it!” banners. But back to my original point, clapping our hands for those who are exceptions will not change the statistics of our time. I think that’s the more important discussion than which time era produced the greater woman.

  • http://VerityReign.com Verity Reign

    TRUTH! GOOD ARTICLE!

  • Laugh

    Hence your screen name. I didn’t expect anything of intelligence.

  • libpatriot

    Amen!!

  • libpatriot

    Out of control? We are what? Baby girls who need managing? The truth is men have no idea how to do many things by themselves. For example, many young women decide to go to college. I have heard men say “It takes a community for a brotha to go to college” What does that mean? Some men do not want to become mature adults and blame women for everything, let them.

  • SMH

    Bitter much? Her comment had nothing to do with men. By the way, women receive far more gender-denominated assistance for college than men do. Look it up. Hope it doesn’t take a community.

  • Kam

    Why is there a certain faction of Black men that seem to have such an infatuation with Black women being submissive? I could understand if it was because of religion, but I doubt the majority of men ranting about it have stepped foot recently in a church. They tend to be the really aggressive thuggish types. Sometimes I wonder if it’s because they feel such powerlessness in the dominant society that they feel the need to assert control over someone else. It’s puzzling since my parents have been in a long term marriage (40 years) as well as many of my family members and I’ve never seen this stereotypical dominant/submissive relationship between any of them. I’m wondering if these men have no models of marriage to base it on or is it some cultural thing I don’t know about?

  • Patience

    +100

  • Patience

    +200

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    Wonderful article! It is sad that a lot of people on their “half truths” and their perspective when in reality they need to open their scope.

  • ChillyRoad

    @Jess

    I think it is problematic when Michelle Obama and her daughters become the face of black and female in AMerica. BArack Obama cannot be the face of black men in America. The Obama family are unfortunately the exceptions.

  • ChillyRoad

    @Yb

    Black men and women are two different groups and are often compared especially when it comes to the number of them in and out of university.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    *base their “half truths” and perspectives of what others are about and reading them wrong….

  • http://theblackparacosmistmind.wordpress.com theblackparacosmistmind

    @SMH
    The problem I have with submission (or rather the men who talk about submission) is that it always comes in this neatly-packaged gender-specific, patriarchal bow, meaning it’s always the woman who must submit. When you think about it, rationally that is, ‘submission’ is the very nature of a relationship be it a friendship, familial, or a romantic one.

    In order for a relationship to be in an ‘harmonic balance’ each party is going to be yielding at some point in the relationship. If they didn’t, then it would be a dysfunctional one. Some of the women who claim that they’ll never ‘submit’ to a man are foolish because if you’re in a relationship you’re going to have to ‘yield’/'submit’ or ‘compromise’ at some point.

    In regards to your statement that ‘femininity carries a strain of submission,’ sure, maybe in terms of how patriarchy defines femininity or how a woman should always be the ‘yielding one.’ But that’s why these ideas of masculinity and femininity are social constructs, there’s no scientific definition, proof, or theory of masculinity/femininity. But if I was a man, why wouldn’t I want to support a social system that says that I’m the natural-born leader and women must yield to me no matter what? And I think that’s where a lot of black women’s discontent with the whole ‘submission’ thing comes from.

    **If this artist did their research, many black women in the 70s were apart of the second wave women’s lib moment. So this cartoon is monolithic in its portrayal of black women.**

  • http://twitter.com/PiscesStar7 PiscesStar7 (@PiscesStar7)

    Hello!

    I hope that everyone is having a pleasant day!

    The point that the cartoon artist (and I suspect some responders to this article) have forgotten is that, humans are still evolving. African-Americans are still evolving. Therefore, African-American women are still evolving.

    History has been presented to humans from the point of view of the victor, i.e. the “white male.” Therefore, until the 1900s, we rarely heard a story that wasn’t tinged with perspective of the “white male.” Only rarely did we hear a story (be that fiction or non-fiction) from the point of view of the woman (in general). So, if we rarely heard the stories of white women, then, it goes that it would be an even deeper rarity for us to hear the stories of minorities, such as black men or black women.

    The stories we heard of the white male typically related “rags to riches,” the various morality tales, knowledge & wealth acquisition, and the various ways they approached love, romance, and family. And, in these tales, we learned of the white man’s thought feelings, sensations, thought processes, theorems, concepts, values, and how they applied these feelings, sensations, etc to their choices in life. They had a many millennia to examine the how’s and the why’s of their actions. They had a many millennia to carve out standards, rules, regulations, and most importantly, laws to allow them to live their lives according to their own terms, freedom!

    While most men have had all this time to exercise their freedoms, women (in general) have been forced to carefully navigate their own paths to equality. As history has explained, most women with freedom only had that freedom based upon the whims and desires of a male parent or spouse of executable power (i.e. a king, tribal elder, or a rich businessman), via a will or some other statement of legal power. Whereas, other women freedoms (or life choices) became subject to her genetic factors, such as who was her parents, was she a first born, was she pretty, and other factors not related to her character, actions, or talents.

    It wasn’t until the 1900s, that black women start getting the message (en masse) that it was acceptable to blaze their own trails, make their own decision, and figure out for themselves what is good, morale and right for their own lives. And, it wasn’t until the mid-1900s that black women started to figure out that the path to happiness was in their own hands. And, it wasn’t until somewhere near the 1970s that black women started to figure out that blazing your own path in life, not blindly, meekly following some else’s vision of who that individual woman is supposed to be, can a very rocky road to travel on. We will make mistakes learning how to be a self-sufficient human that can fully contribute to humanity.

    If we can accept that there are many types of white men, with many different goals, values, life approaches, and faiths; AND we can accept that minority men can do the same; AND we can accept that women (as well as other minority women) can do the same; then, why can we just accept that the black woman will do the same, too? If the human, in general, is still evolving; then, it goes that black women are still evolving, too!

    So we all need to get off this track trying to put ALL good women into one trick bag and calling all who are not in that bag hoes or other forms of non-acceptable. We are all still evolving and trying to find what works for us individually and as whatever group we call ourselves affiliating with!

    Still evolving,
    PiscesStar7

  • DookieTurds

    Yes, you head that right. Out of control! Obesity galore, attitude galore, weave galore and kids extra galore!! Why are you comparing women with the men? As far as your college example goes, black women were initially given a greater incentive to go to college and were continuously encouraged to attend school long before black men were.

    This is the problem I run into every time an attempt is made to discuss the issues of black women. Women want to always talk about what the men are not doing. Women have been talking about what the men haven’t done for years. How about we start checking ourselves?

    I’m tired of looking around and seeing us look and behave a hot mess. When we are at our best, we put ALL other women to shame. What’s wrong with me wanting more of us to be at our best?

  • Nope

    There are plenty of feminine women who are not submissive. These men want to give out commands and have you do them. I think you all mean you want women who aren’t argumentative or difficult. White and Asian women aren’t more submissive. They are stereotypicaly less argumentative than the stereotypical black woman. This is 2012. You should be with someone who is compassionate and caring enough that she just does things because she wants to please you. You shouldn’t want your partner to throw away her views just because you say so. Most people I hear going on and on about submission want their women to act like servants. You mentioned thugs. Of course.

    When I look at white women (since you all like to compare us to them) in couples, I don’t see them submitting. They don’t have to agree with everything a man says. Their partners don’t want that. This is why I don’t think white women are weak or doormats like some people say, but submissive women are doormats. There are plenty of submissive black women. They’re the ones getting their behinds beat. They’re the ones playing wifey to men who have no intention of marrying them. Men get bored with “nice girls.” Submissive women have no backbone and no opinion. You can be plenty feminine but have backbone not be difficult or argumentative.

    Please tell me what do you mean when you say submissive. What does this perfect woman do? You are saying submissive women are feminine, but non-submissive doesn’t equal masculine.

    In white and Asian couples that I have noticed, I see compromise not what I say goes. Not nagging or arguing as much is not being submissive.

  • Mnyama

    Im glad I grew up with women who could hold their own even as far back as the 30s and 40s. They were smart, independent and did know their worth. I never learned submissiveness but I did learn how to get along with men and know a fool when I see one. Most men have been led to believe that ALL women are chicken headed gold diggers and simply don’t know how to act when they meet a woman who actually has her own, ain’t getting with him for his “stuff” (cause he aint got that much) and actually wants a relationship because she thought he actually had a personality and some sense.

  • Indigorama

    lmao cosign, i love your last line!

  • Patience

    Or microwave a frozen dinner.

  • Jess

    Look, Chilly, how ridiculous would it be for me to believe that Asian women, white women, or any other kind of women are supposedly “winning” over black women? Who comes up with this bunk? If you can talk about the (false) sterotype of how well Asian women are doing, then i can talk about the fact that Black women aren’t losing at anything – we have a whole lot who are winning. Just because YOU hate the idea of Michelle Obama, and the legions of other Black women who are doing just fine andnot losing to anybody, doesn’t mean mean that we should accept yur hate – our whole race of black women are not in some pathetic category that people like you want us to be.

    People who think like you are the reason why people like Gabby Douglas are hated so much – you can’t stand the idea that a blackwoman or girl does not fall into some “oh-the-poor-ignorant-Black girl-who-needs-to-saved-or-chastised” and is doing just fine, beating allof y’alls asses – white, Asian and otherwise.

  • Jess

    @SMH

    ..or the eternally bitter male misogynist who would rather beat his wife than work with her. get a life jackass

  • Jess

    @Kam, it’s because they want what they think white men have, and that is submissive women.However, white women aren’t submissive and the proof is the number if white men who golooking to date Asian women in serach of a submissive woman (even though the reality is that a lot of Asian women aren’t submissive either). And it’s also th thug gang culture that makes men only value men, and hate women, so they only want women to be submissive to their attempts to sleep with them/make babies.Otherwise, they could give a rats arse about them. Just check the route hip hp headed doen to see thattype of misogyny and desire for “submissivness”in action.

  • Mademoiselle

    I’m sorry, but if this cartoon were to ever hold true, then I’d have to give the 70s women a bona fide side eye for raising the millenial women. You can’t tell me you were faithful, loved yourself, knew your history, submitted at home, took care of home, and knew your worth back then, and somehow the next generation just *turned out* to be self conscious, shallow, shameless women. The women on the right were raised by the women on the left, so it couldn’t have been all good with the 70s if they dropped the ball with making sure the next generation knew what they knew/know.

    Of course, the other side of the logic is that the cartoon depicts an apples/oranges comparison, and doesn’t stand up to criticism or even do a good job at drawing a point. I’d venture to say there has always been a little of both women living in all eras of time.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    DING DING DING! Somewhere between there and now doesn’t add up because along the way someone dropped the ball…my parents say it was my grandmothers’ generation, which trickled to theirs now ours, which I agree you can’t go from good to bad overnight this was a steady progression.

  • http://www.fashion-acce.com/fine-jewelry.html Fashion Accessory

    Wonderful article!I agree with bink’s idea— It is sad that a lot of people on their “half truths” and their perspective when in reality they need to open their scope.It is a good idea.

  • E.M.S.

    Glad you called this cartoon like it is: inaccurate to a severe degree. There’s quite a few things wrong here:

    1) Strength & independence are necessary for women because of how society treats us and views us. They are not negative traits.

    2) Just because you are not devout does not mean you cannot live life well and be moral. It is in fact possible to do so without religion.

    3) Women should not be submissive to any man. Relationships should be about give and take, there should be balance and equality.

    4) Being driven by success (not money) is a GOOD thing. You will not strive to be your best and make your life the best it can be if you’re not hungry for it.

    I find it very interesting that particular traits that women need for survival in the real world are considered negative. That goes to show society is still very backward when it comes to women. Especially black women.

  • msmonet

    Preach!

  • Paul

    hmm?

    the cartoon is not idealizing black women from the 60s. Drawing one group of women as good and another as bad is merely a cheap shaming tactic.

    You make black women of the 60s look good (better than they were) and make black women of today look bad (worse than they are) to shame or guilt women into compliance.

    Personally I don’t see a problem with today’s black woman’s refusal to “submit” ie – provide domestic services free of charge and free of argument

    LOL!

    It was inevitable in a capitalist “free maket” system, that women would start wanting pay for their services.

    Truth is a lot of women, those with parasitical inclinations, have always felt they were much better off in more traditional sexual arrangements with men -

    for obvious monetary and leisure reasons.

    Feminism didn’t eradicate these women, that was not feminisms aim, but it did drive them underground for a while. They sought refuge in patriarcal institutions like the Church and in Sugar Daddy “relationships”, where they waited for their neo traditonalist (feminists) sistas to dismantle the culturally maintained system of female submission.

    Yeh, so what we have now is a PRIVATIZED system of female submission. Feminism has unsocialized female submission and made it a privately contracted service that you PAY FOR and maintain without the support of the wider society.

    That’s right – no more submission handouts to weak BROKE males, who are TOO LAZY to get a good enough paying job to BUY submission.

    LMAO!

  • student

    I’m trying to figure our why the person who made this is so mad about women who work. I really don’t think he knows what he’s asking for.

  • Indigorama

    truthiness right here! :)

  • echidiime

    co-sign!

  • msmicia

    First let me say I knew the comment section would blow up but daaang that’s a lot of scrolling! Lol ok enough jokes. First I’d like to say that the cartoon in question isn’t saying anything extremely thought provoking. And it’s contradictory. Black women in the 70s who were militant also were normally NOT submissive. Dare I say these women were discovering their identity outside of being just black and started thinking of themselves as womyn first. ;) The submissive woman in the seventies didn’t wear an Afro she wore a process lol. On the flip lets not stick our head in the sand and pretend like the state of our people aren’t being affected by these images. Images not manufactured by us. At least in the 70s you had your Melvin van peebles. Eighties we had spike, 90s we had varied underground artist getting major platforms to showcase their work ie de la director of love Jones ect. We had abstract images of what being young and black meant. We had something to identify with that had some dignity and it had our support. Be it submissive or progressive it was varied! Young women now what can they look for a role model?. Other than the FLOTUS iimages for little black girls AND BOYS have gotten worse and worse in the last ten years. Bump the seventies heck giver me the nineties with the Cosby’s. A different world living single and female MCs that could rap! And lastly if you and your friends are getting these type of emails and you are qouting Kat Williams to make a point about how far we’ve come…youre doing us a disservice and you not as upwardly mobile as you’d like to think. #justsaying

  • http://www.facebook.com/christelyn Christelyn Russell-Karazin

    Tell ‘em how you feel, Demitria.

  • Pingback: Have You Noticed? Changes in the Out-of-Wedlock Conversation in the Black Blogosphere « Beyond Black & White

  • ChillyRoad

    @Jess

    You comment confuses the heck out of me. Where was it stated that I resented the success of some black women? I just said that the Obamas are the exceptions for both black men and women, and it is true.

    On every metric a large majority of Asian women have done well for themselves, as have Asian men- hence the”model minority” label.

    My point was that Asian women, according to many, have managed to pursue their academic and professional aspirations while managing to avoid certain negative labels that black women have found themselves saddled with.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/SW-PhD-Consulting-LLC/189802874370407?ref=tn_tinyman Sides 2 Truth

    I was a child in the 70′s. I remember the first national airing of Soul Train in 1971 – basically I’m over 45 LOL!! However appreciative of your piece, I think there are some things that should be considered:

    1. Many portrayals of Black people on television and film in the 70′s were what was allowed.

    2. “Submission” does not mean be a Stepford Wife in Black – it means you supported your husband and his mission, while maintaining yours. Trust, my Mom ran the show; but my Dad was clearly in charge – respectfully.

    3. There’s a difference between independence and interdependence: one can be so independent where they become isolated/isolating. Interdependence is the ability to take care of self, and build a network of people to be able to call on when needed – no matter how educated and independent Black Women believe they “have” to be because of some misguided belief that ALL Black Men are soooo terrible, I have a corp of wonderful, loving BLACK MEN I can call on (i.e. car issues, career advice, mentors, etc.) – does that make me “weak”, NO! That makes me smart.

    As a so-called well educated woman (Ph.D.) I’m responsible for how I am portrayed, starting with me, my attitudes, and my actions. One thing I can say about my sisters from the 70′s…there was a pride unmatched (and Black Men returned the favor)! We could learn something from them…but first, we must get ourselves together, reconnect with our men, and get back to basics.

  • DONALD

    I do click like. When one throws a stone, the only dog that hollers is the one that gets hit. That cartoon did not come out of a vacuum.

  • Jess

    Gee, everyone, isn’t obvious that DookieTurds (?????) is:

    1. Not a Black woman
    2. A big ugly a** troll

  • Jess

    I’m sorry ChillyRoad, but only a cowardly person refuses to associate themselves with the successful ones of their group, simply because stats (usually from those outside their group) tell them that everything about them is negative/unsuccessful/ugly. I’m sorry, but Asian women have MANY negative sterotypes to contend with, not least of which are being considered whores, doormats, lapdogs, ice queens, nerds, or dragon ladies, and MANY Black women are as sucessful, happy and decnt as the First Lady. I just don’t buy that black women, or any other black people, should distance ourselves from successful Black people as being somehow outside the norm – they ARE the norm, they are real, just as some rachety women are real.

  • Jess

    Qualifications: Harvard and Princeton Law Degrees, practicing lawyer, Chicago city government, Asisstant Commissioner, First Lady.

    Has it ever occurred to your hateful, heartbroken, bitter, dumped-by-a-Black-woman-and-now-hate-them-all, misogynistic arse that the First Lady and President “submit” to each other? That they work together out of mutual affection, love and shared values and backgrounds? The First Lady has enough of her OWN to not submit to anyone.

    But No, you’re too much of a dumbass and Black caveman-wannabe to understand that. Now go sit down and continue dreaming about how to beat your next girlfriend.

  • DookieTurds

    Right, because a black woman wouldn’t dare have the nerve to address other black women hunh. How dare I want us to do better. 
    So it’s not possible for a black woman to criticize the actions of black women without being labeled a troll and not black? Why couldn’t you take the high road and address what I wrote? 

  • Leena

    No disrespect, but if your father was clearly in charge, your mother was not running the show. Your definition of submission is your own and most men don’t subscribe to it. You can’t have your own “mission”(if it mission isn’t family), you can only support his. Maybe it’s not true for you and your family, but in terms of being submissive, this is what most men mean.

  • Ms. Write

    “In their world, there are all of these Shemar Moores driving moving trucks looking for their perfect woman but being met by selfish, materialistic, shallow, uppity ratchetness.” -LMAO Dead. This commentary is spot on

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    A bit heavy handed but good comment.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    I think there is a mix up in the interpretation of the word submissive.

  • YeahRight2011

    I’d appreciate it if you forty-somethings wouldn’t use your age or education to qualify your perspective as balanced. We all have parents, most older than you, who can also give an account of the 70′s. Probably a more objective account since you would have just been potty trained and learning your colors at the beginning. In fact my folks blame the youth in the 70′s for the decline in African American progress. Should I take their word over yours since they beat you by 23 years?

    Now for your points:
    1. Half excuse/Half omission. There were more images of blacks conducive to the culture than you’d like to admit. They just didn’t pay as much as Blaxpoitation. Would that make them sell outs?

    2. That is not what submissive means in its proper or this context. They want what they perceive to be Hispanic, White, Asian, or foreign female submission. Its a cheap shot at African American women and you bought it. There is no consistent record of that kind of submission in African American culture. African American culture took Blacks from freed chattel to a major political and economical demographic in just 2 generations. I’ll stick with my culture, well what’s left since the 1970′s.

    3. My old man would give his life and take another for me. There are cousins, uncles, godfathers, and neighbors that round out my black male support system. They don’t know or care about you. I see the men in your life the same way; Men who don’t know or care about me. So don’t act like they wouldn’t treat me like crap if they wanted to. You’d probably say I deserved it.

    Independence is exercising your own agency no more, no less. The mini sermon is condescending as hell.

    Pride unmatched and the stats to go with it. Highest OOW birth rate, highest teen pregnancy and birthrate, highest abortion rate, highest divorce rate, highest high school drop out rate, and lowest small business growth between 1970 and 1990. Thanks for the “legacy” but I’ll pass.

  • alyssaj

    Why does black feminism exist?

  • Ivan Cohen

    I remember when first hearing the term “free love”. It came from those white hippies who had all the material advantages but said “forget you” to their parents because they felt trapped in the straight world and wanted to find themselves. Outside of the South especially in places like Greenwich Village and in California, blacks were going to get exposed to a concept called free love. I hear movies of the 1970′s with blacks referred to as exploitative. Of course what is too often left out is how in the black community with movie theaters, one had to endure all those exploitative Elvis Presley movies and let’s not forget those exploitative Beach Party movies with Frankie Avalon and Annette Funicello. Ah yes and the previews of coming attractions like: Faster Pussycat, Kill, Kill, Dog Eat Dog, Just Once More, Johnny Cool and The Purple Gang. I do not believe we as a people have the market corner when it comes to dysfunctional. That is a “learned behavior” over 400 years here in the belly of the whale, who are you going to take after? In the 21st century we got more choices now. What we choose can either advance us or set us back.

  • http://gravatar.com/proverbs31sista Set Free Indeed

    There is no doubt to me that we do need to take a look at the eroding moral fabric of Black women, and women in general in society. No I don’t place all the downfalls of the Black family on women, but they are surely a part of it… While looking at the past is helpful, because let’s face it, the Black women of yesteryear were far more honorable than at times present, there were also blights on the past as well but it is far more noticeable today.

    I for one do not think it is acceptable for us to continue on in this manner. We do need to do some self-examination as to why in the world women (in general) are so loose, brazen, and shameless. As much as the modern day feminist woman would HATE to hear this, men were made to be leaders and protectors of families, and children were made to be within the confines of marriage where a supportive wife who is a helper is present. This mama’s boy mentality we have instilled in young men and independent woman spiel we have fallen for as women has caused us to raise a generation of cowardly men who depend on women for support, and continue the cycle of fatherless homes, and overly aggressive, domineering, bitter Black women… and yes I am a Black woman saying this if it matters.

  • http://theblackparacosmistmind.wordpress.com theblackparacosmistmind

    @SMH
    This is how I know that you: a. didn’t fully read/understand my post or b. that you don’t understand what a social construct is: “You are correct that they are social contructs but they are also defined tendencies that directly inform pairings.” “…my argument pertains to the proclivities of men, not patriarchy.”

    First of all, you must explain what you mean when you talk about ‘men.’ Are you talking about about masculinity and gender identity or are you talking about biological sex?
    Because you can’t use mass media designed by the western white, patriarchal structures to explain the ‘proclivities of men.’ “Maleness” or ‘male-hood’ means different things in different societies and cultures, because guess what? It’s a social construct! Just because the western patriarchal social identity of ‘maleness’ correlates with a ‘rough and tough’ attitude, doesn’t mean it is biologically true. Causation and correlation applies here. We are socialized beings. A lot of what we do is a direct cause from socialization. It’s not “inherent.” It’s nature vs. nurture.

    ” For example, the vast majority of women do not want effeminate men. That is not an ideology”

    You can’t use evidence from social media or ‘bro science’ or ‘your feelings’ of gender identities to make sweeping ignorant generalizations of what men and women should and are supposed to be like or their ‘proclivities’. Please read ethnographies of different cultures and see how your westernized assumptions fail.

    If patriarchy doesn’t effect us, then why is a so-called ‘effeminate’ man shunned in our heteronormative society? The problem is their is NO BIOLOGICAL THEORY of what it means to be ‘effeminate”-it’s purely a construct. That’s why if you look in the ’20s-’40s of men in pictures-they are holding hands and sitting on each others laps*, which in today’s society it’s seen as ‘gay or effeminate’-but these men had WIVES. Or heterosexual men simply holding hands and kissing in France and Italy, is seen as effeminate here (U.S.A.), but these men have wives and girlfriends.

    So your argument doesn’t stand, the idea of an ‘effeminate’ man changes over time and different social groups. You can’t use ‘bro science’ to make a generalization that a vast majority of women don’t want effeminate men. Our social definitions of things change constantly!

    Maybe it’s just my habit as a researcher and an anthropologist, but you cannot make these claims in the academic community base on ‘feelings’ and what you’ve experienced. That’s why the whole ‘women are bad at math” was debunked by several researches in studying social stigmas that affected female students’ work performance in male-dominated classrooms. You need hard compelling evidence, references to past works, and it must be tested and researched multiple times for it to hold weight and truth.
    *http://jezebel.com/5934760/vintage-photos-of-straight-guys-holding-hands-reveal-how-much-has-changed/gallery/1

  • Lisss

    Yup. Thought i was the only one who noticed that… I’m not sure what the author of the cartoon meant but if it’s the popular definition that is being talked about in these posts, then we’re not on the same page at all.

  • Lisss

    @Tonton Michel Yup. Thought i was the only one who noticed that… I’m not sure what the author of the cartoon meant but if it’s the same definition that is being perpetuated in these posts, then we’re definetely not on the same page.

  • Keke

    You know, the biggest flaw in your argument is that you start off with “It did not suggest that ALL black women are like this…,” then from there devolves into an argument where ALL (or at least a vast majority of) Black women are fat, have attitudes and need a cup of STFU. Chile, please. I will accept that there are some Black women who do fit this description, but I refuse to accept that they represent me. I and everyone around me are individuals, flaws and all. Even those women we may see in the hood and “tsk, tsk,” have there own stories, their own complex backgrounds and may not entirely fit what we think of in terms of “hoodrat.” And unlike some people who will sit and judge I have actually worked with many Black women in low income communities and can tell you that many of them have arrived in their present situations in any number of ways (rape, coercion, bad decisions, abandonment etc.) and are usually very hard on themselves and more critical of their past choices more than anyone else around them.

    We judge them because it’s easier than actually rolling up our sleeves and working with them and then realizing that we should be resisting an entire system of discrimination that has been predicated on our exploitation. That’s a lot of damn work, both mental and physical so it’s just easier to say “hoodrats!” tweet a few lines and go back to business. And how can the independent anthem be annoying? Both Black men and women should celebrate when we defy the odds because in decades past, Black people were not allowed to have an education or be self-sufficient. I used to think the way you did until I decided to get out there and start mentoring people. Then I realized that things were a lot more complex than I thought. This whole rugged individualism, personal responsibility b.s. helps a lot of people in power point the finger at those “hoodrats,” and keep us distracted from the real problems facing our communities as a whole.

  • Keke

    Though I am a womanist/feminist, I am neither lonely nor suffering the plight you may be imagining. I don’t hate men either, which is why I am happily married with a child, have a wonderful household and see nothing wrong with earning a check, especially in this messed up economy. So….*shrugs*

  • YeahRight2011

    This was a reply to Sides 2 Truth.

  • YeahRight2011

    We have a hard time holding blacks of that generation responsible for anything don’t we. “Learned behavior” of acting as you please, consequences be damned?

  • Paul

    Definition of submission (the sanitized version – I think)

    source unknown

    “woman’s identity lies in an “essential feminine altruism. “A woman’s self-expression and power is based on making her husband and children her first priority. Similarly, her sexual satisfaction and spiritual fecundity depend on self-surrender.”

    LMAO!

    Well that may or may not be true, I don’t know, coz I don’t what it means.

    Sounds like broodmarism plus “man is boss of woman”, to me.

    LOL!

    Whatever the case, my simple blue collar naivety makes me ask – can’t we all just get along?

    What’s wrong with just being able to get along with a woman – no submission necessary?

    A lil give and take. A little team work.

    Does a romantic relationship really have to be structured like a boss/worker relationship?

    Come to think of it

    Do boss/worker relationships have to be structured like boss/worker relationships?

  • http://twitter.com/PiscesStar7 PiscesStar7 (@PiscesStar7)

    Hello Sides 2 Truth,

    Hope you’re having a pleasant day!

    As I am also in your age range (if that makes any difference); and I, too, recall the many transitions that we as Black people have made over the time we have been here in America. Transitions where, in the 1970s, Black women started to figure out that by blazing your own path in life, not blindly, or meekly following some else’s vision of who that individual woman is supposed to be, can be a very rocky road to travel on. Yet, they bravely did so. And, with that aforementioned knowledge of the road they were traveling on, they also understood that change would bring unknown negative consequences (depending on your perspective). Yet, change must be made or else we (all Black people) would never learn how to become a self-sufficient race on our own terms, as did the Jew or the Japanese (after WWII). We will make mistakes learning how to be a self-sufficient human that can fully contribute to the total sub of humanity. But, we each must be allowed to make that mistake, despite unintended consequences.

    If we can accept that there are many types of white men, with many different goals, values, life approaches, and faiths; AND if we can accept that minority men are doing the same; AND if we can accept that women (as well as other minority women) are doing the same; then, why can’t we just accept that the black woman will do (and NEED TO DO) the same, too? If the human, in general, is still evolving; then, it goes that black women are still evolving, too!

    So, I ask again, can we all get off this track trying to put ALL good women into one trick bag and calling all who are not in that bag hoes or other forms of non-acceptable?

    We are all still evolving and trying to find what works for us individually and as whatever group we call ourselves affiliating with!

    And, for the record, there are many who are attempting to roll back our rights to live our lives according to our own vision by taking away our right to vote…will you please make sure that YOU have YOUR stuff together enough to vote? And, if you CAN, please assist a few someone elses to ensure that they have their stuff together enough to vote?

    Thank you for listening,
    PiscesStar7

  • http://gravatar.com/gokingbeef bhillboy

    SMH has it right

  • Paul

    If this topic is ultimately about who black women are in the 21st century then I’d like to hear black women tell THAT story.

    Maybe if black women told us who they ARE instead of constantly telling us who they’re NOT, nobody would be able to project their assumptions onto black women.

    (always harder to deny an accusation than is to make and defend an assertion)

    Unless you’re saying that being a black woman is ONLY about not being what “THEY” accuse you of being.

    Well, if you don’t know who you are then WE will have to TELL you.

    :-)

  • Jess

    SMH, obviously you care we have to we say or you wouldn’t keep getting your big ol’ drawers all in a bunch over our commetns. Go find one of those Black-man-ku-klux-klan sites to foam off at the mouth about Black women – better yet, go setup a youtube about how much you hate us and leave Black women’s magazines to Black women.

  • D.T.

    @KeKe
    Oh my goodness! Will you guys stop with the strawmans and address my points. Is it that hard? I did not say ALL black women were fat, loud, etc.  Please show me where I said that. Black women have deflecting down to a science. I see why some men go so hard on us. Being nice doesn’t go over quite well. I don’t know if you guys do this on purpose or if your comprehension abilities are just limited. I believe it’s the former. 

    Why do you keep saying the word hoodrats? I never once used that word. Secondly, you’re making insinuations that I’m not involved in the community. Where could you have gotten that out of my posts? Once again that’s a strawman.  You’re resorting to assumptions about who I am because you cannot articulate a logical rebuttal against my points. 

    Actually I wasn’t thinking of hoodrats (your word not mine) when I wrote my posts. Although, I will say that obesity and kids out of wedlock are more prominent amongst groups within a lower socioeconomic status. Horrible weaves and attitude though, transcends all economic levels. 

  • Nope

    Definitely. I’m glad to see this from a man. Men who go on and on about submission kind of scare me. There are lots of women in relationships with men that are appreciative and compassionate and do things for their partner out of kindness and love not duty. A man should prefer that. A man who prefers a woman to submit out of duty sounds like he is power hungry. Reciprocity is needed. Why would a 21st century man who respects women still be talking about submission? Why don’t they simply say they want women to be more considerate and less argumentative. Why do you want to dominate another human being? So you can say you are in control? Are you not in control of other areas of your life and you see controlling your wife as a way to feel better about yourself?

    There are plenty of men and women in loving relationships with no submission. They are appreciative of each other and reciprocate. Why would you want to boss your wife around? Good wives do put their family first. Self-surrender? Hmmm. Wouldn’t you want your wife to want you rather than just have her roll over and surrender? That doesn’t sound so hot.

    I mentioned that men should prefer a woman that does nice things out of love and kindness rather than duty. I also would think a man would prefer an independent woman who is not with a man because she needs his money but because she wants to be with him. I have heard men say that they like independent women. They have goals and ambitions and don’t expect him to be an ATM.

  • YeahRight2011

    I hit the “report button” instead of “reply” by accident. Hopefully the moderator(s) will see that.

    Black women are humans who happen to be black and female. That about covers it. And I don’t think you want me to use the same method to tell Black Men who they are. It wouldn’t be pretty.

  • Patience

    “And I don’t think you want me to use the same method to tell Black Men who they are. It wouldn’t be pretty.”

    I am interested in hearing what you have to say.

  • Paul

    @yeahright

    Go ahead, say whatever unpretty thing you like about black men, and when you’re done I can show you why everything you said was wrong in my case.

    I know who I AM sweetie.

    :-)

    Now you said – black women are human being who happen to be black and female . . .

    well, that leaves a lotta room that I could fill in with speculation that you can’t challenge coz all you know is black women are human beings who happen to be black and female.

    LMAO!

    So we’re still looking for a WOMAN who can tell us who black women are, without self aggrandizing or self pity, but with a lil

    elaboration.

    smh!

  • http://gravatar.com/templet00 temple

    alla this right here, +1000!

  • Nope

    Thumbs up? I’m really feeling this new feature Clutch.

  • hassanrobinson

    black woman hate it when blackmen are happy smile or just being themselves its like they are always wish us bad stop being so hateful oparh anit on tv no more

  • http://www.facebook.com/deon.walton.1 Deon Walton

    Crab in a barrel

    So you see a depiction created by some arbitrary person that offends your sensibilities and your reaction is an antithetical response based on the same flawed logic and dependence on negative and generalized stereotypes.

    “Free love” equals promiscuity to you, but to many others it was part of an overall movement that pushed for a lot of freedoms that women enjoyed today.      Sexual repression was still very much part of the mainstream culture of the 60s and 70s.  Birth control was still technically illegal to possess in many states during this time.

    Blaxploitation prominently depicted pimps and hoes?  Thats all it did?  Didn’t  it also provide some of the strongest depictions of black men and women to ever hit the silver screen at the time.  I don’t recall Shaft being a “pimp” nor Foxy Brown or Cleopatra Jones being “hoes”.

  • http://gravatar.com/yvesconde Quez

    These times are not the good Ol’ days, even MEN don’t want to go back! We’ve come a long way. There is nothing wrong with men cooking and watching kids and being domestic. Even more if you are a man who wants a submissive woman to cook and clean you have to be 100% more careful who you become involved with because that isn’t the normal culture in america now. You have to be even more careful. Personally im used to it, i was raised by a single mom. I saw my mom work hard to provide so me helping around the house is normal. Yes its hard to swallow your pride and every woman isn’t my mom (thank god).l

  • lola_z

    Self Conscious – Has no shame – Shallow – Strong & Independent.
    Somehow these words/phrases do not go together.. HHHMMM I WONDER WHY
    This man needs to sit down..
    I’m not even going to write a paragraph to address this.. He’s not worth it.. SMH

  • Johnny Cage

    Why does these types of issues seem to fall back on all black men? Most of us ARE proud of the progress that has been made by black women from then to now. Being in the military for 7+ years I’ve heard this hypothesis for all colors of men, not just black. Although I disagree with this man’s artistic statement I do believe in being equally yoked with my spouse. If you ladies don’t want all of us to blame you for these problems, then don’t blame all of us for this idiot’s work. Everyone just pointing fingers at each other isn’t solving any real issues in our culture.

  • Johnny Cage

    Not true at ALL!!

  • beks

    they didn’t have those kids alone. they aren’t out on those corners alone. and don’t get me started about arrogant ass men who believe they are the sacred few who sh-t doesn’t stink because they have an education. let’s stop blaming women – and recognize that poverty denatures all races.

  • http://myspace.com/norequestbandlive Roy

    The paragraphthat began”sorry,” i can agree with and will probably add it to my notes section on my site. The rest of it I will stay away from.

  • alyssaj

    I like #2. Thank you.

  • alyssaj

    Dang! Where is SargeWilliePete when you need him?

  • Lyrical Butterfly

    This Alex L is a complete idiot and hods on to the Nice Gut bullshit. “Oh hot black girls didn’t like me because I was a nerd in high school” when who knows it could have been the fact that you were an arsehole maybe. hmmm?

    These entitled “nice guysTM” think that because they did A,B and C that they are deserving of the creme of the crop of women deemed attractive. They are these men in all races. But since his comments focus on Black people we are going to keep the focus here. for example look at these comics from tumblr

    http://ai-yo.tumblr.com/post/25123949730/so-my-i-have-been-seeing-these-comic-strips-around-and

    In my school I have heard these complaints from Black men saying that well the Black girls that they are supposedly interested in think they are too nerdy and geeky and whatever. Although it never occurred to them to look for the Black girls with the same interests as them but nope she has to look like Megan Goode for that to happen the hot geek girl trope (see She’s all that or Not another Teen movie.) AND EVEN THEN just because someone likes the same niche shit that you like does not mean that they will like you. Meaning just because you both like playing Last Chaos MMORPG does not mean you are soulmates because you find her attractive.

    I had some crushes that were unrequited back in the day but I got over them as soon as I left highscool when I was 16 I’m 20 now. This man is probably older yet still can’t let go.

    Plus I would also love to add the blame Black women for everything complete bullshit. Seriously take some responsibility it’s just fucking sad. the picture above said it is contributing to the feminization of Black men meaning turning them gay which made me laugh my ass off.
    On one side you have Black men blaming Black women for turning Black men gay
    then you have Don Lemon a gay Black man saying the reason why so many Black men won’t come out of the closet is because of Black women.

    So we are turning you gay and stopping you from being gay. Wow who knew Black women had so much power like that.

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  • AC

    Can you really blame the Reality Shows to portray us in a negative light? Hell, we have to show up, audition, and agree to act in these shows before they can be put them on tv. We need to have some self-respect.

  • On the fence

    I like and agree with the article, but two points that obviously aren’t popular:

    I also agree with some of the stuff that “DookieTurds” said, and don’t believe that she is a man trolling. I mostly agree with the part about us checking ourselves, and coming together to be our best. I think people may have disagreed with the tone, but overall it wasn’t an ignorant comment in my opinion.

    I’ll stay on the topic of women since speaking on Black men would take too long. But I am a Black woman, and I have been many things, and graciously been able to bounce back from mistakes (what the kids call ratchedness lol) with the grace of God.

    We are not perfect, not in the 70′s and not now. There may be a sense of unity missing, a sense of community, maybe even pride…but all those things and more can be regained. Overall, I LOVE my people, but we do have issues. No need to beat one another up over every little thing.

    Oh and lastly, I saw this cartoon before and yes I’m sure I rolled my eyes, and if I were on FB I wouldn’t “like” it. But overall the artist, the “brother” is doing something right to have his work circulating and being discussed. That’s one of the purposes of art…we won’t always agree but I can respect that part.

  • http://www.retailobsessed.com LT

    I agree AC. They only work with the material that they are given.

  • YeahRight2011

    There is nothing more to add. You asking a woman to categorize a demographic as large as black women? How about this. You tell me who black men are so I’ll have a template. I’ll be waiting,

  • juiz

    http://www.theroot.com/multimedia/root-20-social-activists…just saying…Its not that they dont exist…the problem is we no longer pay attention…too busy watching Love and Hip Hop *Kanye Shrug*

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