Be Honest: Do You Really Like Black Men?

by Demetria L. Lucas

Do you like Black men?

That’s not a trick question, and there’s no right answer. Just whatever comes to mind.

I realize the fallacy in that question. It’s not like I’m asking about chocolate chip ice cream, which no matter the brand has a pretty uniform taste. Black men are as varied as, forgive the analogy but it’s apt, snowflakes in that no two are entirely the same. But in general, when you think of Black men, what do you think of? And is that something you like?

I expect the knee-jerk response from most Black women will likely be, “yes,” if only because it’s the answer you’re “supposed” to give and to say “no” opens the door for accusations of self-hate and possibly to hear, “Well, well, we’re not too fond of you either, you know?”

But I ask, even if I’m expecting a chorus of “yeses,” because it doesn’t seem as so many Black women do. I’ve noticed — perhaps you have too — that conversations about Black men, or even boys, often devolve quickly into a theme of “why don’t they have any act right?” as if every Black man has gone to hell in the proverbial hand basket. When I hear many women speak of their proclivity for interracial dating, I often — but not always — hear the reason is because Black men can’t do right or get it together, to put it nicely. Even from the Black women who swear up and down that they’re not into interracial dating and only want a Black man, I still often hear a litany of angry complaints that generalize them all as liars and philanderers, who can’t be trusted to commit to education, much less one woman or stick around to be a daddy to the kids they fathered.

If you’re a woman who thinks that way — and I don’t expect that anyone will admit it — I don’t blame you. That’s not to say I think Black men are generally bad, just that I understand it’s partly a result of the undercurrent of the popular American story that goes Black women are lascivious, angry, and big. And Black men? Well, to sum it up, they ain’t $@!#. We’re practically bombarded with these messages so it can be a hard narrative to escape internalizing for even the educated and deemed sensible, and especially so, if your personal story includes a father who didn’t stick around, a series of men who did you dirty, or you grew up in place where you looked around and didn’t readily see any man hardworking or upstanding enough to disprove the stereotypes. I get it.

I also get why women who think this way, wouldn’t be inclined to do much to change it. Part of it is a defense mechanism to avoid being hurt, likely again. Or maybe they’ve been privy to overhearing or reading male conversations that either deem Black women the lowest of the low or even at best, don’t take our needs, wants, or desires into consideration, as some Clutchettes in the comment section to yesterday’s story on young Black men and education. There, an attitude of “why should I do what you don’t?” emerged and I get that too.

But I’ll suggest to you, if this is your outlook, that it’s doing you more harm than good. Complaining about what’s wrong with Black men and what they don’t do doesn’t change whatever you may perceive to be wrong with Black men. “Ain’t ish” and “about they ish” men exist in all colors, even Black. And if all the Black men you encounter ain’t ish, I’ll skip my go-to Katt Williams quote about assessing yourself and just ask you to look elsewhere until you find some who are.

If you’ve observed also that Black guys don’t care so much about what happens to you or women who look like you, I’ll even still suggest that you still take an interest in what happens to them, anyway, even if you don’t go so far as to advocate in the streets or city hall for their interests. That’s for no other reason than because if you’re hetero and dating Black, at some point you will encounter a man worth caring about, and too, a community doesn’t thrive ever when half of its members don’t care about the other.

That might mean you act as the bigger/better person and go with Ghandi’s adage and being the change you want to see in the world. Maybe your first step can build a bridge to reciprocity. Or maybe it can just keep you, if it applies, from becoming (more) bitter since you’ll be a catalyst to change instead of a complainer about all that hasn’t yet.

Demetria L. Lucas the author of A Belle in Brooklyn: The Go-to Girl for Advice on Living Your Best Single Life. ABIB is available to download and now in paperback. Follow her on Twitter at @abelleinbk

 

  • http://gravatar.com/chanela17 chanela17

    maybe not american black men and what they’ve become…

  • http://gravatar.com/honeybfly1980 Isis

    Not the American ones. Give me one from the West Indies or Africa

  • http://www.passion4percussion.com Lamont

    Wait, no comments on how horrible we are yet? I’ll wait…lol(not)

  • Ariahead

    Of course I like black men. I like all people until that individual gives me a reason not to.

  • Smilez_920

    Thanks for writing this . Im sorry but what I saw in the comment section of yesterday’s post was sad. I saw a bunch of hurt. I understand the hurt but damn we were’nt talking about grown men we were talking about children. Not saying some of the commenters didnt have good points, but the theme of the article didnt call for what ended up being a ” if they don’t do it, why should I “. All the article was suppose to do is shine some light on something positive going on in our community. Since most of the news about us is either controversy, violence in our community or celebrity news.

    Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I am fully aware of some of the hurt these women feel. Some blk women so hated/ under valued by black men that all they can do is put that energy back in the air. But I will say that some women have a tendency to gravitate and try to make men who don’t like them or ( us) and try to change them or change themselves to fit this particular black mans fantasy. The thing is ignoring our young black boys our (sons ) and our daughters will not make the situation any better. Just another generation of underdeveloped black men dealing with grown women who feel under valued and that doesn’t create a healthy community.

    And for the women who push interracial dating like it will solve every blk women’s ” woo’s” I say to them what I say to blk men who think white women ( non blk women) are the answer to everything ( put them on a pedestal) . ” good for you , if that person makes you happy great, but don’t put down every black man/ woman because of your own mishaps. Keep that negativity to yourself because your not helpin the situation . ” I always wondered how the partner of the opposite race feels when the black partner goes ” I’m dating you because blk men/ women don’t know who to act blah blah” .

  • Tonton Michel

    This will definitely kick start the morning off.

  • Black Out

    People HATE African Americans for some reason, and I think it’s cause they don’t understand. West Indians and Africans have their own countries (to some extent), while African Americans may have been ‘freed’ but the next day they had to work for their masters, and even today, they try to get em in jail for committing crimes that more white people commit, to work for 23 cents an hour.

    And it’s not all African American Black males, that have ‘become’ what you THINK they have. And West Indian culture and African cultures have their faults too (misogyny, homophobia to name a few)

    But you do have a right to your FUCKED UP views.

  • Stanley

    Here we go again!

  • Kacey

    *eye roll*

  • Downsouth Transplant

    Yep Demetria, it is a trick question & you know it! LOL

  • Ms. Information

    I love black men….I love my father and my uncles, my cousins and my friends….I love how they open doors for me, change my tires when my car breaks down, how they give me compliments and make me laugh, how they dress, and how they are protective of me I know good black men so I am not going to lump a whole race of men into the stereotypical ones…I hate when people do that to black women. Yes I have been mistreated and cheated on by black men but I attribute the behavior to their character and not their color.

  • Chillyroad

    Ive noticed that while whites may not like individual white people they like whites on aggregate. Blacks, on the other hand, like individual blacks but not blacks as a whole.

    I like black men. All black men.

  • Chillyroad

    Titt for tatt.

  • Yb

    This will not end well……might as well just close the comment section early.

  • Leslie

    To answer the author’s question: No I don’t like black men…at all period. Black men’s problems, education, etc are THEIR problem…not mine. And I agree with many comments under that article.

    Even though I’m a black woman, I am sick and tired of black men’s problems being dropped into my lap as if I’m just supposed to take to the streets to rally for change FOR THEM when these same men are noticeably silent about black women’s problems. No thanks!

    I’m not up for playing Mother Theresa for black men. According to them Black Women aren’t the backbone of the community anyway. We’ve been told our so-called backbone is broken or has scoliosis. So why in the world would any sane black woman jump to their defense for anything??? Why in the world are other black women so intent on dropping black men’s problems at the feet of black women?

    I understand some black women have black sons, husbands, fathers, brothers etc…but the flip side to this is black men have black sisters, wives, aunts, and mother yet we RARELY, if ever, hear a peep out of them about the issues faced by black women.

    Some say two wrongs don’t make a right…well I same fool me once shame on you…fool me twice shame on me. I think this modern generation is not up for sipping on the “pity black men at your own expense kool-aid” like grandma, momma and them did…and with good reason.

    Black men are constantly going on about how black women aren’t needed. They tell us they don’t even need us to produce “black” children anymore. They tell us WE alone have destroyed the black community. They tell us we are not physically attractive and we’re bad mothers this, that, and the third. Okay…cool…and I say the hell with black men. Let them burn!

  • Ms. Write

    I don’t understand how we continue to discredit our own race. There are good, and bad of every race and ethnicity. There are triflin Black men just like there are triflin Latino men, triflin Asian men and triflin White men. We continue to discredit our own people, that’s why we keep on loosing. How do you judge a race of over a billion worldwide based on a few bad experiences? SMH

  • Nikki

    I love/like the Black men that I love/like, and I’m open to liking more. I’m kind of through with expecting people with characteristics similar to my own (i.e. race, gender, economic background, same college, whatever) to show me love because of that so-called common ground.

    I love, love, LOVE my black husband, son, father, brothers, and uncles, and I like my black male friends. I guess I’m beyond expecting too much from black men whom I don’t know, and I’m past expecting much from anyone whom I don’t know.

  • Yvette

    This is a subject that I wrestle with a lot, and I applaud Demetria for tackling it head on. First of all I will say that, yes, of course I love black men. I feel like it’s almost my duty to do so since I’m the mother of a future black man. How can you hate what’s a part of you?

    But on the flip side I do find that it’s become harder and harder to love black men. I’m not angry though. I’m disappointed, and sad, and often feel defeated. Black men should be leading our community, strengthening it. But for whatever reason this isn’t happening. Instead, black relationships and black families are in shambles – we have the lowest marriage rates and a high rate out of wedlock births. Of course this is not entirely the fault of black men. This is not the blame game and women do bear some of the responsibility. But black men, please, it’s time to wake up and realize that we need you to step up and do better.

  • Black Out

    You don’t love black men, you love men that do stuff for you

  • Ms. Information

    I love black men that are there for me..and I am there for them in return..hater. #notgonnaarguewiththebitterbrigade

  • C

    I’ll be honest, I’m not on the “I love all black men” train because I’m not into liking people based on shared skin color or ancestors. I’m also not angry at all black men, either. I love the black men in my life–my husband, Daddy, my son, my brother, uncles, some of my cousins, the few male associates I have. If there’s a black man I don’t like and/or love, he isn’t allowed in my life and isn’t relevant to it. I don’t lump all black men together. There’s different types (good ones, bad ones, bitter ones, self-hating ones, nice ones, mean ones, upstanding ones, criminals, and so on), and those that I don’t like, I distance myself as much as possible.

  • Smilez_920

    I like men that treat me good , Black , white or other . Yesterday comment section ( while it had some valid points) were made in poor taste.

    The article wasn’t about grown black men and their problems. It was about Grown black men trying to guide and mentor young black men to do something positive. It wasn’t a call to action for black women to do nothing more but wish then well. Most of the main stream news about our community revolves around celebrities, violence , controversey, hair and relationships. It’s nice too see the blog shine some light on the positivity going on in our neighborhood.

    Ignoring our sons and our daughters because of our own hurt isn’t going to help them. All that does is create more undeveloped men and more women who feel unappreciated and undervalued.

    And for men and women who date outside of the blk race not because of love and happiness but because of hate ( for blk ppl of the opposite sex) please keep your negativity. Let ppl know that you dated a few of the wrong blk men or women, don’t make it seem like we’re one monolithic group and were all the same.

  • Kir

    Now tell us how the non black men, as a group, treat and fill about you. They all want to wine, dine and romance you… yeah, ok. lol

  • Misty_Moonsilver

    Say that! I feel just about the same!

  • Smilez_920

    The article was about young black men children. Now yes I’m not jumping to the defense for every black man problem because they need to own up to their ish. But how can we create a generation of better men and women if we ignore them. The article wasn’t asking blk women to do anything. Just letting ppl know that blk men can do positive thins to help their community.

    No ones asking you to put your life on the line but, damn. And not all blk men do what u stated . Unfortunelty our media has just let the ones who do have to much of a voice.

    But to each it’s own. And if your a black mother than anything that has to do with your blk son and their future is your problem.

  • Sweetles

    I agree with you. Yesterday’s thread was a mess. The article was a positive one, but some of the comments were hateful right from the beginning. I think, if you want to attract positive into your life, you need to be in a position to accept positivity. That can’t be done if you are hateful and bitter. I have come across a lot of screwed up, nasty, and hateful black men and women, and guess what? I left them right where they were. You don’t need me in your life and I don’t need you in mine. It really is that simple, and that goes for everybody. If you aren’t a positive force in my life, you won’t have the pleasure of being in my life. There is no benefit in carrying around years and years of hurt and pain. You are really missing out on life if that is what you choose to do.

  • Stephen

    What I noticed from the article is that some/many don’t like black men but, when the conversation switched to black boys, it became clear to me that some just don’t like black males in general, child or adult. It was as if guilt, evil and unimportance is implicit in humans “afflicted” with a Y-chromosome.

  • Sweetles

    Well said.

  • Gell0h0h

    I love everyone – for the most part. No one is without faults and we all have fallen short at some time. Whichever band wagon floats your boat, you ride it until you do not sink. All of us had short comings at one point in time – where we were not this enough or lacking in here. The state of affairs in our relationships, communities, homes and etc. are due to a number of issues and no one person in particular as fault. It is a collective issue because there has been a discord and disconnect between both groups of people, but I do not use as that an excuse to bash or just dislike all Black men. My father unfortunately was not there in my life and when he was present, it was nothing but negativity and negative experiences accompanied by his presence, however, I do not limit my mentality and apply his behavior to all of that of all African American men. That in itself would allow myself to be boxed in the category of all “African American woman are angry, and etc.

  • http://cupofjo-jo.blogspot.com bk chick

    Can we inject some stats into this convo? Because if you’re going to discuss the legitimacy of disliking black men, as a collective, then there should be statistical evidence somewhere the justifies or disproves disdain for the collective black male. If the prison rates are as high they say they are, or homicide, or domestic violence, or neglecting of children, or lack of education amongst black men compared to the national average of other men of other races, then there is some legitimacy to not liking black male culture. I can tell you from a cultural perspective alone, hip hop culture is the dominant image of the black male, and I def don’t like what I see. glorifying violence, criminality, putting non black women on pedestals, and bragging about baby mamas is NOT attractive. Now, you can argue whether or not the powers that be are pulling strings in a way that helps promote this allegedly “skewed” image of black life, but a lot of people who don’t live that “hood” life have no problem turning the other cheek or tacitly approving this image by buying the music and singing along to the destructive lyrics. I understand the need for us to all come together as a collective, but we cannot move forward in dishonesty. I say, show me the facts and prove to me why I shouldn’t be turned off.

  • Yb

    Oh God. How did you read this article and decide its time to start other blacks vs. other blacks bullshitt?

  • cocochanel31

    I love black men and refuse to surround myself with negative people of any race, PERIOD. All of the black men in my life are upstanding men of standard and I wouldn’t know them if they weren’t. There are plenty of jacked up white men too, they are not the end all be alll to black women’s woes. If white men were so perfect why did we have a series called Sex in The City about all white WOMEN looking for love with very little luck as it relates to white men, why did we have the very white movie HE’S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU, the list is endless, men are men, color means very little when it comes to character.

    At some point if you keep latching on to “no good men” the problem is not the man it’s you!!

  • Joan

    Great article! However, I think that for us to even be questioning whether or not we like black men shows that we are so lost. I can’t lump all black men together. All of the black men I know and associate with are each so different and most of them are positive. Have I ever been disappointed by a black man? Sure. Do I feel like disappointment from any black man has affected my life in such a way that it makes me look at all black men and judge them? The idea of that is so laughable. I guess it’s because whenever I have been disappointed by someone (male, female, black, white, whatever), I eventually point the focus back to myself and I try to look at the bigger picture. Were my expectations realistic considering the circumstances? If so, then I chalk the person up as a douche and move on. If not, then I try to make a personal adjustment and move on. I do what I can to make sure that I am around positive people and at age 41, I can honestly say that I haven’t done bad at that. And this is coming from a black woman whose father was an alcoholic and was so irresponsible. My father blamed other people for his shortcomings. Thank goodness, I was able to see that his problems were his, not black male problems. So what if some (not all) ignorant men who happen to be black say and do negative things…that is not all black men and what ignorant people (male, female, black, white, whatever) have to say should not count for much.

    I know of black women who sit around and talk about how much black men frustrate them, but the ones that I personally know of who do this never really take much responsibility for changing their own circumstances. They use their negative experiences with certain men as an excuse to keep putting themselves back into similar situations (because to them, it’s as good as it gets…good relationships don’t exist…happy people are faking it), ultimately ending up with the same type of men all over again…and the circle of frustration goes on and on. I’m not saying all black women who claim to dislike black men are this way, but the ones I have personally seen up close tend to be this way. I’m not trying to blame black women for negative circumstances, but I will say that just as it can be said that many black men appear to be resistant to change, the same can be said for many black women.

  • Keepitreal

    I wonder how black men and black women would interact, today, in 2011 if the black illegitimacy rate was still 20% and black wow, end had the highest rate of marriage of any women of any race? As it was in 1950. I suspect we wouldn’t be having this post nor the never ending black relationship discussions. Black women (as a group) refuse to accept responsibility for being the root of their current self inflicted (very real) relationship tragedy. This didn’t just happen. The attitudes of today’s black men is the result of decades of black women embracing The Feminist and Progressive Fundamentalist failed social engineering which devalued (the man is wanted but not NEEDED in the home) the Natural Order of the nuclear family. Now that the chickens have come home to roost, black women and feminized men are saying it’s primarily/exclusively the black man fault. I the guess white elitist, liberals, feminist and black baby mammas thought those boys were going to learn how to be men through osmosis. Throughout history men, as a group, of any race have never made a commitment and embraced their illegitimate kids. Fact.

    If a boy growing up see’s 3+ men in and out of his mammas bed, a bunch of baby mammas in his family and in the hood or black men in the hood with multiple baby mammas he thinks that’s what men do and how women are to be treated. You see, Uncle Sam is just not a good baby daddy. Black women refuse to accept the blame for this self inflicted tragedy. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to treat grown women like kids. You reap what you sow.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    this is not about sex…

  • http://gravatar.com/asiainghana AJNYC

    There were others up thread who mentioned not liking/loving African American men but liking/loving West Indian and African men. They were able to choose the type of black men they like/love so why can’t others defend African American men if they want?

  • Leslie

    Black women dont have anything to lose with non black men…thats just how sorry the so called relationship between bw and bm is today. Smh. Try again.

  • JustCurious…

    Because I go by the individual, I can count on one hand the black men that I like and respect, however I can honestly say that I do not like black men as a whole.

    I have male a few male friends and family members that I love to death, but I won’t turn a blind eye to their issues and make it seem like they’re the bee’s knees just because they’re black men.
    I don’t admire them from afar like I used to. I don’t even look their way or acknowledge them because in my mind, they’ve already made their minds up about me and my being a black woman. It’s in the body language and how they interact with me, and I am not a hoodrat or some angry matron. However it doesn’t help that I live in a location where black men don’t even like black women themselves.
    All the black male blogs really let me know how the majority of black men feel about us, and most of it is not so positive.

    I don’t have a duty to make them feel better about themselves when they always talk about how other races of women are soooooo much better and how they can be men when they’re with them and how they can make prettier babies.

    So no, not really…

  • OSHH

    @ Tech 11, you say “To judge an entire group just because of ones short coming and not realize your part in the situation, the black community will always be at a stalemate, no progress, no building nothing, I am a builder and if black women do not want and like black men such as myself then i say continue your avoidance, you will forever remain in that dark, lonely, cold bitter hole that your in and you will never escape it unless you start change the way u think.”
    BUT didn’t you just tyoe four/five paragraphs doing the same thing?!?!
    You sound bitter and I don’t know you but if a certain type of a woman, appsrantly the ones you have been attracted to in the past, isn’t attracted to you, I’d wager it’s not because you are “well to do” just a hint.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “i does feel i have no choice to deal with other races of women”

    you should know that you always have a choice.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    the system of white supremacy hates all black people.
    divide and conquer is one of it’s primary means of attack.

    i love all my people and i will not be turned against my own.

  • http://www.aworknprogress.com Diana

    Amen! I was in the hairdresser recently and some girls who were about 18-20 years old were talking. One was concerned that her male friends didn’t want to go to college. The other two chimed in, “well college ain’t for everybody.” The other girl clapped back, “that while that may be true, these dudes didn’t even want to learn a trade, a skill, nothing. And what would their life become?” And so the other girl says, “well that’s their life. I told you to stop worrying about other people.” Ummm…ma’am…you do realize these dudes are in your dating pool? They are your potential mates, dare I say husbands, fathers, contributors to our community and society we inhabit. We are descending into a ‘I got mine, you get yours’ (both mentally and in actions) community, but I think Gwendolyn Brooks said it best, “We are each other’s business; we are each other’s harvest; we are each other’s magnitude and bond.”

  • camille

    Maybe Black women don’t want you because your grammar is atrocious. Some of us do have standards.

  • Kacey

    “I am a license commercial pilot and a professional IT Engineer. Many and when i say many, many sisters avoid me like a plague.”

    Sir, given the dearth of successful, professional black males in our communities, and the fact that the overwhelming majority of black women still prefer to date, mate and marry black men, I find your statements lack credibility. If women are in fact avoiding you like a plague, as you say, I am willing to bet there are other, very serious reasons why. Your rantings here may offer some clues. Good Day! (And I wish you the best in your quest back to reality)

  • Patience

    No, not really.

  • Smilez_920

    We could go back and forth all day . yes a lot of blk men need to get their sh!t together . Yes there there are blk men who have hurt blk women , yes there are blk men who go to jail, kill and steal and don’t take care of their children and don’t handle buisness.

    Yes there are blk women who are hurt , hurtful towards themselves and other black women, yes there are blk women who open up their legs and live to the wrong men, yes their are blk women who resent their sons and love their sons out of fear and loneliness and pass down issues to their daughters.

    Yes there are a lot of blk ppl who r f’ed up. Our media have examed , played on and mocked these flaws so much that it has not helped us but hurt us. Yes I believe that too a certain extent that grown men and grown women need to handle their own problems. But when it comes to children male or female I will not put them down. Yes our children need a dose of personal responsibilty. But why not wish them well instead of throwing them into the ” nigg@s ain’t ish category”.

    The article didnt put women at fault for anything , it didnt ask women to do anything , it didnt put down women to lift up men. It just simply showed us that some of our children need help and there are blk men out their trying to provide it.

    Again I like/ hang around ppl and men who like me, black white or other .

  • B

    To be honest I don’t care for any man who doesn’t care for himself or me.

  • http://gravatar.com/bossbloggeryahoo KIR

    @Leslie

    You didn’t answer my question. I wonder why? lol

    FYI, I don’t have a problem with interracial relationships. But if you want to compare YOUR relationship to black men, as a group. Let’s compare it to YOUR relationship with non black men as a group. Ok, The black men that “YOU” wanted, as a group, treated you like DoDo. So how does that compare to non black men, as a group, who treat you as if you don’t exist, aren’t attracted to you romantically/sexually and don’t want to have anything to do with you socially? Let’s put it all on the table.

  • B

    I would hope that the partner of the opposite ethnicity would end the relationship. I wouldn’t want to date anyone if I felt that they were using me as an escape route.

  • Nipzie

    I understand where you are coming from. From what you’ve stated your education and occupation looks good on paper. But just because your educated and black doesn’t necessarily mean that black women are going to be lined up at your door. I know this may sound superficial, but what do you look like? You may not be attractive or you may be socially awkward. Who knows?? But please don’t assume that black woman are settling for the men that are glamorized in social media. There is nothing more that ANY educated woman wouldn’t want than a smart, honest, and good looking man. I’m tired of people always pointing the finger as who is to blame for the short comings of black relationships. Be real with your self.

  • B

    I see what you are saying but I don’t need black men to do anything for me. I respect the hard working ones who don’t need to be asked or told to handle their responsibilities. Case closed. If a grown man has to be begged and pleaded with to do what responsible individuals are supposed to do, I count it as a lost cause and continue moving on. Life is too short and I have my own to live. Sorry but no thanks.

  • Lo

    Exactly. Avoiding him like the plague. Dude, there’s more to this story than you’re letting on. Having an education and a good job (btw 86k isn’t much in my book…at least not to brag on) doesn’t necessarily mean that women should be groveling over him. There’s something else here if he can’t pull a black woman.

  • B

    Um, what black women are YOU dealing with because you seem to be what “decent” black women are looking for. What is the type of neighborhood you live in because you sound like a suburban dude living in the hood.

  • PJ

    To be honest, I love my black men. I do not abhor any hatred towards them. I have met some “not so good” black men in the past and some great ones. I have learned from the bad ones as well as the good ones. From my experience, the good is still outweighing the bad. I cannot buy into the flawed beliefs that black men are worthless and/or menacing. Not bragging, but just thankful for my blessings:

    1. A strong, hardworking, w/ endless dedication to his family black man raised
    me. (R.I.P)
    2. I have four [will go to the ends of the world for me] brothers.
    3. God-given intelligent, handsome, and talent son.
    4 My son’s father; a good provider for his son and family.
    5. And my husband ~ (a God-send). Tbh…I didn’t think men like him existed.

    Once we give up believing in our men, we cannot make room for the good ones in the future. The men in my life are too good to have room left to dislike the bad ones. I do want our black men to do better especially concerning their children. Those men I cannot respect and don’t understand how other women could. I don’t hate them, but I sure couldn’t develop a friendship with them as well. All our black men aren’t bad. For right now, I will continue to uplift them and believe they will do better.

  • C

    Gone? But you don’t even like black women yourself! And I have come across plenty of articles and comments by Asian women downing their men and praising white men.

  • Pseudonym

    “You say you love black men, but every day i go out into the streets i see many of you hanging with drug dealers, hanging with black men with no jobs, no source of income, much less no drive to get an education, but say you love black men. Yea the weak ones.”

    The guy from BGAE made a great point to claims made like the above. If these are the only type of black women you are seeing every day when you go out into the streets, maybe you are out on the wrong streets! There are plenty of black women who do not fall in this category of dating losers. Scrubs hang out where scrubs hang out. Achievers hang out with achievers. Why are you hanging with scrubs and using them as your example to represent ALL black women?

    I don’t surround myself with losers and therefore the black women and men I know STAYS winning. You should come hang out with us- that is- if you are a winner as well.

  • Stephen

    This thread reminds me of Dave Chappelle when he would start his show by saying “Well, they haven’t shut me down yet…”

    I think a lot of this article and the comments can partially be explained by what it means to be male in society. In most societies, men are not valued for existing, they are valued for what they do, produce, sacrifice or bring to others and, if they are not producing, society simply doesn’t care about them. As more black men came to have less resources to give, we became less valued. I think that, because that became so widespread, black masculinity as a whole, including black boys and teens, became less valued by some.

    I think it also explains the following and much more:
    1. Mentioning the “black male crisis” in conjunction with the dwindling number of “marriageable” men
    2. Concern regarding high-earning black men marrying interracially but no concern for average or under-earning men.
    3. No concern for the abnormally high number of homeless men.
    4. No concern for male suicide victims, but concern for the families left behind.
    5. The resurgent call for chivalry.
    6. A resistance to the idea of stay at home fathers among both men and women.

  • hmmmmm

    You sound hurt.

    *KISSES*

    From a black man who despite you stance hops you succeed in all things. I get that from my beautiful black mother.

    *kisses to the rest of you as well*

  • Nikki

    If I was on the fence about liking black men, this comment would certainly push me to the other side. If there were an article on a website read by predominantly black men, Iwonder how many responses would be just like this. Yet, on every forum frequented by black women, the consistent question is where are all the educated, nice black men who want to meet black women?

    And so the disconnect continues :(

  • politicallyincorrect

    Are we speaking the internet or real life. the internet battle of the sexes is a hot mess

  • LaNubiana

    I bloody love my black men!

  • B

    Tech11, sorry to hear about your experience. How and where are you meeting women? Do you have any outdoor type hobbies. Sometimes people meet their dream partners when they are just enjoying themselves and life. Best of luck. You’re still young so compared to a woman, you have plenty of time.

  • http://gravatar.com/rastaman1967 Rastaman

    I have been around black women all my life and what I have experienced are women who have a lot of anger towards the men in their lives. Whether it is the father they failed to establish a relationship with, the ex-boyfriend who broke their heart or the man who abandoned them with the kids and went on with his life seemingly without a care. In many of those cases the men are universally black. So I understand how so many of these women can get into a space where they then associate all black men with their anger. What I don’t understand is why so many seem to project that anger with such a vengeance at others and in their present and future interactions with any black man with whom they have no personal history.
    A lot of what Demetria sees as hate is linked to personal hurts and much of the anti-black male commentary comes directly from that place. Women who don’t live in that space: have relationships with their fathers; gotten over past heartbreaks and don’t feel abandoned by the men in their lives generally cannot identify with those feelings. There are a lot of awful men in this world and many of them have visited a lot of hurt on the women in their lives: wives, girlfriends, children, etc. they are not all black of course but most people are usually victimized by people within their own social group, ergo black women being hurt by black men.
    I believe the lack of access to mental health and the persisted cultural aversion to it is what is allowing this to fester in our community. There is a dysfunction at work and until people choose to address their personal issues with a mental health professional they will continue to hurt and be angry. As I was told by someone who is a pastor and mental health professional, they can get a lot of black women in the church to discuss their issues as their pastor but any recommendation they discuss those issues with a mental health professional is immediately shot down. Hurt people hurt people.

  • Stephen

    This thread reminds me of Dave Chappelle when he would start his show by saying “Well, they haven’t shut me down yet…”

    I think a lot of this article and the comments can partially be explained by what it means to be male in society. In most societies, men are not valued for existing, they are valued for what they do, produce, sacrifice or bring to others and, if they are not producing, society simply doesn’t care about them. As more black men came to have less resources to give, we became less valued. I think that, because the circumstances are so widespread, black masculinity as a whole, including black boys and teens, are also less valued by some.

    I think it also explains the following and much more:
    1. Mentioning the “black male crisis” in conjunction with the dwindling number of “marriageable” men
    2. High-earning black men marrying interracially but no concern for average or under-earning men.
    3. No concern for the abnormally high number of homeless men.
    4. No concern for male suicide victims but concern for the families left behind.
    5. The resurgent call for chivalry.

    (sorry if this gets posted twice, my first post didn’t go through)

  • gigi

    i like black men its not that they can’t get their shit together is but due to enviroment they think they cant do better but once they get their shit together they think they’re the shit… looking down at everybody and thinking by becoming what they are not they have updated…

  • rosie

    Black men and boys usually come first among black (Americans), despite how they may be presented on one website by a handful of women.

  • ?!?

    There is definitely more to this story. Many successful black men have NO problem getting women. They can get a nonblack woman or have a harem of black women or both. Many times they do. Some black women are so desperate to be with a professional black man that they will manshare because he is good looking, looks good on paper, and gives them butterflies an all that. They will knowingly get involved in nonexclusive relationships thinking that they can make a man fall in love with them and leave those other women alone. I have heard that mansharing is prevalent in cities like Atlanta where women outnumber men.

  • Sweetles

    Tech, if that is the way you feel, why don’t you just move on and stop ranting about it. Have a nice life!

  • Smilez_920

    @leslie

    When your dealing with a good man black white or other you have nothing to lose.

    I don’t care who anyone dates. But let’s look at the rates of interracial relationships ( blk women with other men) I’m sure it s not skyrocketing. Maybe I’m just out of the loop. While yes there are blk man who make it their mission to tear blk woman down, it’s not like men of other races at a large are running to put us on a pedestal. It’s all about the individual person. Maybe I can’t just hate all blk men because even if I have a child with a man of another race he will still be considered a mixed black man. And how can I resent all black men ( even the good ones) and really be able to turn and look at my son. Same with blk men who date other races for ” pretty babies ” what do you say when your daughter comes out looking just like you .

    We start hating our children when ther younger and wonder why they grow up to be hateful , male and female.

  • http://fancyfacekreations.blogspot.com/ Kween

    I love Black Men. I don’t LIKE their asses sometimes, but I love them. lol …I think the common denominator in a lot of women’s issues with our men is that there’s no accountability. Not the men…US. A lot of the time, we choose our own agony. No one does to us what we’re not willing to accept…and once you’ve gone on to release yourself (or be released) from that dysfunction, it’s time to TRULY move on. Holding onto bitterness of why and why not, won’t help. It truly IS a truthful sentiment that a father or lack thereof leaves an indelible mark on a woman’s spirit and mind. Some triumph over that stigma…a lot don’t. What we have to do once we’ve become grown is to relinquish the sins of the parents. Quit blaming mom and dad. Most parents grew up with us…there’s no manual on rearing. It’s ESPECIALLY hard if no models are before us. You can’t own someone else’s mistakes and demons. You do what you know. Figure out who YOU are and learn to find inner peace, love, comfort…and watch how different your outlook is on LIFE, let alone men. I’ve learned that people as a whole do what they’ve learned. I’ve learned that my Black men are worth my love and hope. It’s up to ME to discern which man that is and when.

  • apple

    good observation.

  • apple

    its a cycle..you hate me , ill hate you, i hate you new person,so new person hates me too…and around and around it goes, where it stop?we’ll never know.

  • hmmmmm

    The funny thing about the article yesterday was that it was about black boys and the tone of the comments said more about the hurt of a lot of black women posting than the article said about the state of black boys. When you hate/prey on children it says a lot about you. A lot….

    As for the hate in the comments: Folks with this much hate are hurt people. If the American experiment has taught me anything it is that hurt folks produce children that hate and hurt more recklessly than their parents. How is a woman who hates black boys going to raise a boy into a man who loves black folks enough not to kill and hurt other black men and black women? How can you hate what you will inevitably produce?

    The funny things is politically a lot of hope of a lot of black women is riding on the vote for a black man? And if he is different from most (he is not), do we really want to explore what makes him that way? Are we, black people, really ready for that conversation?

    I’m a black man, raised and schooled by black women, and taught to love by black women. So I like most black men I know love black women even if we don’t always like what black women do. This love includes the fragile black women who get on Clutch and act all internet tough despite the obvious hurt that resonates from their words and exposes their faults.

  • apple

    i did..then i grew up and found out what they think about us, say about us , and put out there for others to think about us..and then i realized, i’m just indifferent.

  • Anthony

    As a black man, I have often heard black men talk about what they see as shortcomings in black women. Ultimately, I think most of them are rationalizing going for non-black women. My response is, I hope your are not dating, impregnating, or marrying women that you honestly feel are a second option? I hope you actually love those women. That is the exact same way I feel about black women who give a list of reasons why they want a man ouotside of their community.

    As for disliking black men, a lot of us are not the least bit likeable!One of the downsides of a world where black people get beaten down is that many of us becomes jerks at one level or another. Those of us who can improve or be helped, we should help. Some are too far gone, that’s life.

  • Comment

    This is the honest truth I really like older black men because they usually have traditional values and knowledge to pass on. I do not like this new crop of black men, many of whom fit into the following 3 categories 1. Bash black women regularly while they aren’t doing anything positive with their lives, 2. Are doing something with their lives but turn their nose up at most women who don’t fit a list of requirements bc they think they are unicorns, or 3. Ambitious and claim to be conscious and love black women but secretly believe non black women are more attractive. I don’t know what it is that made these younger black men so stuck up and self hating to the point of downrating women who share their skin tone (maybe mamas boy syndrome). But I don’t like it. On the same token I am open to changing my views and working together only IF younger black men step up first. It’s on them to explore why they tend to have so many self hate issues / lack of black love in their hearts.

  • Pseudonym

    yES! This bitter black man shtick you’ve got going is NOT attractive. And just to let you know: $86K income is NOT A LOT of money, so you need to become less impressed with the money you make and work on that horrible mindset and personality you seem to have.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “I really like older black men”

    call me….

  • Downsouth Transplant

    @ YB, so true LOL! gonna be like a crime scene on CSI trying to sift through the aftermath,looking for who done thrown the first salvo.

  • Perspective

    EXCELLENT PIECE

  • Downsouth Transplant

    @ hmmmm, touche:)

  • Comment

    The answer to one of your questions: raise your boys just like you raise your daughters instead of babying them so that they grow up with the same sense of responsibilty. Black mothers are notoriously in denial about how much they coddle their sons and treat them like a boyfriend instead of a child. Also choose fathers who have family values and a sense of responsibilty.

  • ?!?

    Look. I have great black male relatives and good friends. They’ve always been there for me and done right by me. But black men as a group do need to get their stuff together. There are many women who screw up their own lives messing with bad guys. Some of them use the black men ain’t ish chant to cover up that they constantly make bad choices. They think they can make losers act right with thug love and sex and babies and other stupidity, but….there are many black women who have had problems with men that had nothing to do with them making bad decisions. Men like to act as if all of these single mothers went to the worst neighborhood around and found a group of village idiots to father their children. There are too many men acting like this.

    Anyway….I get sick of this gender war. I agree with some commenters about yesterday’s post. We were talking about black boys. They’re the ones turning into these ain’t ish dudes because not enough people care. Their mothers are black women. Most likely single black women. This is stuff they need to know.

    I don’t know how people can sit around and see all the problems in our culture and continue to bicker about who’s fault it is instead of course correcting. African Americans never want to admit that they are screwing up and need to change. It’s the white man, or my baby momma tricked me, or men won’t get their ish together. 

    In my opinion, problems in the black community are 50/50 on both black men and black women. If African Americans had any concept of legacy, they wouldn’t do with they do. Many things that African Americans do is not the stuff that great communities are built off of. The biggest problem with African Americans is the lack of stable two parent households. Great communities and civilizations are not built from single mothers doing the best that they can and mentors at the boys and girls club helping out. They’re not built from men trying to be players for life when they have kids down the street. Both black men and women need to be honest with themselves. Both think marriage is unnecessary. Many black women see no problem with having babies from men that they are not married to but then complaining about their child’s father not being involved. A committed man is much more likely to stick around and raise his children. I can see how the baby daddy cycle hurts children but women keep having babies and complaining. But I feel more harshly about deadbeats. When children arrive it is the responsibility of the adults who created them to get it together as adults and step up. 

    How can we raise black boys and girls to be well centered when black women refuse to make the connection between unmarried fathers, abandonment, and behavioral problems amongst children? How can we talk about strong black communitites when black men refuse to step up and not just pay children support or visit every now and then but they make it a point to see their kids as much as possible, to go to peewee football games, to take their son fishing, to show up to their daughter’s school play? I see a problem on both sides. This gender war never solves anything because neither sides want to take a look at themselves, take criticism, and improve. 

    All the majority of people want to talk about is interracial dating and how other folks are so much better. SMH. You all think other people are better partners. That’s because they were most likely raised in better communities, had better opportunities, taught certain life skills, and taught different things about manhood and femininity. Black men want women to be more feminine like other women but don’t provide the safe neighborhoods that these other women grow up in. Black women want to date professional black men but don’t care about their education and opportunities.

    So as our communities descend into the pits and black boys turn to violence and black girls get abused, the majority of black people in my opinion spend entirely too much time pointing the finger at other people whether that’s white people or black men or black women and talking about interracial dating. When both black men and black women decide to put children FIRST then we will see improvement. When you care about children and legacy, you don’t create problems like we have in the black community. Do you really believe black men and women are trying to give their kids a better life than they had? I don’t. 

    I know black women will not want to hear that but after decades of fatherless homes and children that aren’t well adjusted, don’t people think they owe it to their potential kids to pick responsible and committed fathers? Don’t black men think there is a problem that there are so many irresponsible fathers? Some folks need to be more responsible. This gender war is childish and has to do with single motherhood and placing blame. People want to have sex like adults but not be responsible like adults then you want to throw blame on the other side rather than holding yourself accountable and stepping up for the child. 

  • Perspective

    Ohhhh Kacey – FLAG ON THE PLAY! FLAG ON THE PLAY!

    Again sistas being INTERNALLY DISHONEST.

    This man said he was established and black women avoid him like the plague.

    Many established brothas have the same complaints and ya’ll women dismiss it with the possible that he’s ugly or lacks the already over emphasis on swag that black women have which is based truthfully on black men not collectively being in the right financial position – aka replacement culture.

    The reality is that MANY BW avoid these men because they are unfamiliar with black male leadership and a man actually having his own ship. Men who have themselves together are in control of their own lives. Sistas have become so used to dealing with dusty ninjas that when they see a man who has it together MANY freak out. “How can I be the SIBW when my man has surpassed me? OMG that means I’m just his wife! Can’t have that!” I gotta find me a brotha who’s dependent on me and then if he leaves me I can say – “but I supported you!” shaming him to death with a barrage of shaming tactics.

    This is sistas biggest secret because in the face of all their complaints – they would look foolish to actually find out that they avoid men who can stand on their own two feet.

    Many women want ON-POINT SIMPS – the evolution of a Tupac with a Degree. A simp can be controlled, a Tupac will try to run his castle. Can’t have that – He needs to be getting with your program, right ladies?

    A man who is the type of get with a woman’s program is incapable of being the type of man who can go up against other races of men and be economically competitive. Those men don’t play that.

    How many white men do you see lining up to get with more established white women?

  • Perspective

    ” Black men should be leading our community, strengthening it. But for whatever reason this isn’t happening. ”

    WOW – unbelievable.

    Look I’m not trying to set a BOMB off in here because I know comments are regulated in here especially coming from men but is unbelievable to me at how women can be the ones raising all these men fathered by many men who were really unfit to be fathers – but they had the baby anyway, then when these boys FAIL and are not leaders in the community BW act like they have absolutely nothing to do with that?

    That kills me!

    Real talk a lot of sistas don’t want BLACK MALE LEADERS. They want MALE RESPONSIBILITY.

    There is a difference. One is an errand boy and the other is a man who actually in the position to be a leader and one that you will follow.

    Most black women aren’t comfortable with black male leadership because as Demetria pointed out THEY HAVEN’T SEEN IT.

    They fear it, or they fear the abuse of black male power, so they try to limit and regulate black men from actually being in that position.

    Its holding the steering wheel while your man is driving HIS CAR.

    THIS is part of the main reason why “other races of women come up” Unfortunately by comparison they grew up in communities where their men handle business and they are used to it. So when a black man gets to the level of responsible leader. SISTAS ain’t really lined around the corner as much as ya’ll would like to claim that you would be.

    Male leadership has its benefits but comes at the cost of being a SIBW which is now a glorified position that most women aspire to.

  • Jasmine

    Honestly, I like the idea of “the black man” At 20 years old, guys my age aren’t on the same wavelength as me, not to say they aren’t putting good into the world or working hard, but those men are overshadowed with the constant praise for whips, girls, and fast money.

    When I think of a black man, my first thought is two people: Denzel Washington, because of his stature, and he’s gorgeous, and secondly, Bill Cosby as Cliff Huxtable. I understand that it’s a fictional character, but when I’m older I would hope to settle down with a man as loving and caring as Cliff — and as fine as Denzel.

    So, men and women should attempt to let past relationship help your future ones and not harp on the hurt that was done. Live, learn, and love. It’s all a part of life.

    Since I am in college, women around me are searching to settle down and get married instead of enjoying life, taking the time to enjoy the person instead of making love and relationships – interracial or not- a part of a checklist.

  • Jinx

    Of course I do!! What kind of question is that? I like ANY man who treats me with respect. Esp black men. Quit stereotyping our own men, its a horrible practice.

  • dee

    Not all black americans are like this. I agree that west indies or african oftem are hard workers & good providers, some in my experiences are possessive & controlling from what I understand that’s due to how they are raised in their cultures.

  • The Taker

    Unless you did something shady or harmful to me, I have/feel no reason to dislike you. I’ve met and known black men who were kind, loving, helpful, encouraging, etc., and I’ve met and known black men who made me sick to my stomach. I refuse to discredit a whole damn group because of some schmucks. I most certainly will not. We are all human and we all have flaws. I question some of the men you women hang around where it gets to the point where you dislike the group in it’s entirety. How can you dislike all black men if you don’t even know a quarter of a half. That’s so dumb to me. I feel this away about all people though. Show me love and you get love in return.

  • Smilez_920

    +1000 time for us to stop pointing fingers and look for solutions to create a healthy next generation.

    Please don’t skip by the comment up top it’s worth the read

  • Chrissy

    I agree with you about older black men. I find older men in general to be more respectful and have traditional values.

  • https://twitter.com/TheKMichel K. Michel

    It’s not my job to make everyone like me, though. I’m sure there are White American women who don’t like any White American men, but those men keep it moving to the women who appreciate them. That’s what all men (should) do. I know I’m doting on the “Ms. Informations” of my life and, honestly, that’s all that matters.

  • Pseudonym

    @Perspective:

    The fact that this man came onto a black women’s website to trash them and talk himself up is a HUUUUUUUUGE red flag that- psychologically and emotionally- he might be serrrrrriously lacking.

    He came in here with guns a’blazing, ready to attack.

    I understand what you are trying to say and think you do raise valid points, but they don’t apply to this tech guy.

  • Pseudonym

    “Whether it is the father they failed to establish a relationship with…”

    More like “the father who failed to establish a relationship with them.”

    You make a good point. The way that was worded just bothered me.

  • camille

    Established men tend to want less established women so that their accomplishments are magnified. When it comes to successful Black men, well, they’re too often jerks because they buy into the idea that they are rare precious gems. I will choose a guy making 50-60k who is kind and down-to-earth over a jerk with a six figure salary

  • Perspective

    but we know she’ll never take accountability for having anything to do with that.

    You see this is the type of stuff that sistas won’t say in the ABC specials. They will act like victims to the evil black man. Then claim unconditional support to brothas – deep down inside this is how many feel. It only comes out behind faceless screen names. Sadly, she’s not the only one who feels that way. 27 thumbs up speaks volumes.

    I’ve said it before many sistas want and expect unconditional praise – how dare a black man criticize a black woman – even a brotha is in the proper position and is looking for what he desires, now he’s arrogant.

    It really sucks that this is the way it is – but I really don’t expect black women to be any better – look at their environment. Unfortunately they never EVER want to consider the hand they played in that and are too consumed by their emotions to realize the type of stuff they do that makes it worse.

    I could make a list but I’m not. I’m not trying to get policed on this site. There’s some black women with her finger shaking over the block button right now.

    I’ll give some of the authors credit its not as bad as it was before with there being NO DIALOGUE and just a bunch of man hating women cosigning each other to death. Where does that get you?

    For women with colorism issue fence jumping isn’t going to help – to what? create the same light skin daughter than you currently can’t stand? Yea that makes sense – unless you plan on living vicariously through your mixed daughter. I don’t think black man hating women thinking about that sort of stuff when they throw the interracial dating card.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1245753 Nora Jean

    It saddens me to say that my knee jerk reaction is actually No. My mind jumps to my horrible sperm donor and this response just comes out. I then have to qualify when I think of all my friends and Uncles who are good black men. It does sadden me that my dad has had such a negative effect on my life.

  • Chrissy

    I am going to ask this question again. Where is male CHOICE.

    Like I said in another post my father told me mother he would rather be the man to raise me instead of another man. He did not want another man to take care of his responsibility. My dad made a choice. My dad also went to college and he is in his sixties. So he grew up in time where things were much worse for black men, but he still managed to do what he had to do.

    SO…

    Who are these women that asked to be abandoned in mass? Where is the CHOICE some men make as well. Many men even if they married a woman could still leave her if they wanted to. Many of them make a CHOICE to stay.

    And lets please stop pretending black men do not talk negatively about black women.

    Also I agree that Caribbean and African men as a whole do not act like AA men. However, ignorance and cooning has not always been apart of the AA collective. I’m sure many older AA men have little or no respect for the young generation of men today.

  • http://valsotherblog.wordpress.com Val

    This is a healthy and productive comment. I really got insight from your comment. Thanks for sharing.

  • Chrissy

    Yep, SMH

    So why cant AA men do the same? Oh wait. It is the women’s fault.

  • lol

    “The funny things is politically a lot of hope of a lot of black women is riding on the vote for a black man? And if he is different from most (he is not)…”

    sorry but Barack isn’t out here droppin kids left and right, shooting other black men because they looked at him the wrong way or juggling numerous women. let’s show respect where it is earned. Obama did just that.

  • dee

    So true. I’ve seen plenty of women pass up on great guys with careers simply because his swagger wasn’t on, then complain bout rayray not working & there being no good men. I have a friend who turned down a handsome, college educated brother because he spoke proper. Smh sometimes we bw can get in our own way.

  • Mina

    I like black men when they’re intelligent, nerdy, and just like me. When we have things in common. Heck, I like all my men the same way no matter what race or color they are. I tend to date mixed/latino guys and most of them have “black” or “native” features. Idk how else to explain it but I also date guys who look like me, kinda Asian. So it’s a preference of mine. I have dated dark skinned black guys who were intelligent, nerdy, kinda skateboard/prep/hood/bookworm guys. I think those type of guys are awesome. A guy who can impress me on a skateboard, dresses preppy and cali swag style (no baggy pants though) who is street smart and book smart. And who does new and exciting things like skiing, skinny dipping, other non-stereotypical things. I also like a guy who can cook, clean, and is neat and smells good and has good dental and body hygiene lol.

    But stereotypical black guys (or guys who act like that) I do not like AT ALL! I find them to be pathetic and they can’t engage me in conversation. They literally sound like they have 10 brain cells working. I only date guys who are driven about their education, where they want to work, how they’re getting there, etc. Not the dope selling, weed smoking, I wanna be a rapper, ay shawty, pimp my ride type dudes. Those types irk me to death! Doesn’t matter if they’re black, latino, white, etc. I do not date them ever! I’m ok with being acquaintances with them if they go to my school and we’re in the same class or something, but I’d never in my life date them! I’d never lower my standards for them either. Until they can prove to me that they’re a better man or something, but they’ll still be in the friend zone for life.

    I don’t see myself marrying anyone right now so Idk who I’ll end up marrying. I don’t care about his skin color or race. As long as we have things in common, have a fun and healthy, loving relationship, we’re like best friends and he truly loves me and shows me what true love is, that’s all that matters.

  • ?!?

    @Perspective – Black women like other women are attracted to attractive men. I never hear attractive black men complaining about how they are unable to find a woman. That may sound harsh, but that is what it is. Also the majority of black women aren’t walking around with advanced degrees. They would love to have a man take care of them. These are women you all call gold diggers though.

    Do you really think if a man who looked like Blair Underwood rolled up and was educated a black woman would turn him down because he has his stuff together and what they really want is a us driver that they can control? Naw these men have many options. Many attractive successful black men are married or happily playing the field. They are probably the last people with lonely beds.

    This may sound harsh and superficial, but women are into looks on men as well. I usually find that men who complain about not being able to find a woman are either unnattractive, awkward, or have some misogynistic leanings that turn women off. I know that sounds shallow to say, but that is what’s going on I believe for many of these men. You can’t help how you look, but unnattractive men have it much easier than unnattractive women. A man with a face that is unnattractive or a socially awkward man can hit the gym and buff up, improve his conversation skills, and do okay in the dating game.

  • Smilez_920

    Lets not have the AA vs West Indies argument. Atleast in America West Indian men are just as bad. All those statics aren’t seprating men of West Indian decent , in America they are considered black and part of the number . Go to New York City just as many West Indian men act up as AA men . And Im sure in poorer areas of the West Indian countries they suffer from crime , males being in the streets or in jail, lack of educational resources and father -less homes .

  • Winsome

    YES! and WELL SAID!
    Keyword = LEGACY which is what is missing in the mindset of an overwhelming majority of young people, male and female, especially black. All that should matter is what we leave behind for our children. What kind of example we set for them is the be all end all. Until that is fully understood and displayed in our actions, our communities will continue their descent and decline.
    “African Americans never want to admit that they are screwing up and need to change. It’s the white man, or my baby momma tricked me, or men won’t get their ish together. ”
    -I couldn’t possibly agree more with this statement.

  • Ms. Information

    @ SMH..thank you…I am just tired of the percieved or real battle of the sexes between black women and men…I know black men who serve God and their community..black men who love their children..black men who work in hard back breaking jobs to support the ones that they love…Are all black women ghetto baby mamas on food stamps who are loud, obnoxious and hood? NO…it is mathematically impossible for a whole race of individual people to be homogenous in personality and actions. I love black men and cannot wait to marry one and start a legacy.

  • Perspective

    @ question mark – I’ll break it down for you

    There is a difference between black men and women who are just having sex verse heading towards something serious. Any man that is attractive for that matter will not have an issue getting the CATS MEOW – THAT! is not the issue.

    The issue is once we move past the superficial stuff and get into things such as

    Primary Residence
    Financial Investments
    Where the children will go to School
    A woman moving into the house that THE MAN already established before they met.

    This is the area that black women FREAK OUT – and the resistance to this will ONLY be discovered when a man is ACTUALLY in the proper financial position and trying to add a woman to HIS SHIP. As I believe it should be.

    I know women aren’t about to tell me that men SHOULD be looking for a more established woman.

    And I know they’re not about to tell me that the MAN is leading when she is his financial superior – or some fake equality where the woman says black men should be leading the community but not their household.

    I want BW to bring out the chalk board of reason on that one.

    You dismissing the man’s claims, who you can’t even see in the internet is no different than a man who REALLY just likes white women, but will claim that he dates white because black women are fat or whatever.

    Its a VALID POINT – but its an ILLEGITIMATE COMPLAINT because THAT isn’t the real reason as to why a person may NOT be getting with a person.

    We could go right over to the attractive established brothas – and they will tell you. Getting some – isn’t the problem, but finding a woman who’s down with getting on his ship that SHE CAN’T CONTROL – is entirely a different issue.

  • Anthony

    I have to disagree. An awkward or nerdy man can look better on the outside, but cool comes from inside. The “it” factor that gets women is not always quantifiable, and those who don’t have most likely will never get it.

    The good thing is that a person, man or woman, who doesn’t fit the mold can chose to step out of the game and check out the women who don’t fit the mold assuming they aren’t caught in the game themselves.

    Finally, I think we as a people worry too much about what others do. I want people to be happy, and if happy takes a man or woman outside of their community,
    it’s no one else’s business at all. Way too many people let their sense of self-worth be measured by others instead of by themselves. I know for a fact their were times when I was young when that women I liked who didn’t like me actually got mad when I they saw I was seeing someone else and not worried about them! They’re self esteem was so low that they needed to feel that someone wanted them, even if that was a person they did not want! The bottom line is that all of us will not be popular, but all of us can find love and companionship if we truly look and are open minded.

  • Ravi

    @Leslie

    so much hurt in the lyrics. I’m sorry for whatever experiences have led you to such a hateful position. You may rarely hear a peep out of us about the issues you face, but at least you are hearing it from one of us right now: I feel your pain and I’m in this with you. My contemporaries (men and women) and I take the issues faced by black women very seriously and are working tirelessly to fix things. For what it’s worth, I’ll never go on and on about not needing you, because I do need you. You have primarily been holding the black community together, not destroying it. And you are the most physically attractive women to ever grace the face of this planet. So much so, that the thought of wifing a non-black woman is enough to cause me to become nauseous. It probably won’t count for much at this point, but I figured you should hear this from at least one black man. Much love sista.

    Ravi of the
    H.E.A.D.S.

  • Perspective

    Pseudonym – I can’t see his earlier comments the way the comments come up are all over the place. It hard to follow the conversation. Replies to comments on page 1 show up on page 6. But let me say this.

    Lets just say Tech Guy is angry. You may not agree with it, but I would fight for him to be upset.

    Quiet as it’s kept there are many black men raised by black women or even by both parents who are raised to be decent men. (Not saying this doesn’t happen to women – and I understand men are heavier or looks than women) but in the face of all the complaining about black men, many men get their stuff together and realize that they are in a position that black women do not respect. This is part of the reason many boys don’t want to fulfill those type of positions or when they do end up on the other side of the fence where they have more value for being an established man.

    Trust me I’ve tried. Its a little difficult to get a boy to focus on being the next Barack when the women are on Lil Wayne. Also there aren’t enough black men in the community that would even get respect and admiration from black women to be those role models.

    “He’s corny, or doesn’t have swag” is a cliche line from sistas.

    The problem is – bw really do expect black men to have this degree of swag. In reality men who have swag spent less time in the books and more time hollering at women – which is why they are good at it. Since the black community lacks money we have created a value system based on the intrinsic nature of individuals ignoring whether their actually in the financial position to make change.

    As one person told me. “A lame with money is still a lame.” And hence PART of the reason why they don’t stick around in the community. Then everyone wants to start filing complaints because those with resources aren’t actively participating in it.

    Oh, and I’m not talking about kissing their behind and throwing them a parade, I mean a general level of respect.

    U’d be amazed at how many women have told me it’s my job to mentor her son, like I was the father who left.

    I told her flat out – you should have picked a better man.

    Again – I don’t know what the boy looks like – I’m just highlighting what goes down but people frequently dismiss with the superficial arguments.

  • African Mami

    But of course, I do. What is there not to like? Your blackness and existence is courtesy of a black man. There are some rotten apples, but in equal measure, there are a great many black men uplifting the community in their varying roles as brothers, fathers, boyfriends, lovers you name it. Women that generalize based off the rotten few, have issues of their own to deal with. [Don't take it with ALL black men, address that ONE or few that have hurt you!] To casually dismiss our brothers in favor of others [usually white men, and go on to glorify them, as you castigate our own] is pitiful. I like my coffee black.

  • http://thebrokejetsetter.com brokejetsetter

    Growing up in PG Maryland and being surrounded by them all the time was nice and dandy until I went to other less saturated parts of the country. Now every time I land back at BWI, Dulles, or Reagan the sight of an abundance of black mean warms my heart. So yes, I love black men.

  • hmmmmm

    “. let’s show respect where it is earned.”

    If respect for him is so high on your list why are you referencing the President of The United States by his last name only?

    You know, when I read comments at Clutch I see you a lot. You pulled out one part of what I wrote to continue doing what you do….attacking black male bodies.

    I won’t go there with you. I’m the type of brother who has stared confederate tattooed red-necks dead in their face while checking out a NASCAR race – from the good seats – just because I want to be a part of the spectacle. That’s how I deal with cowards; face to face.

    You don’t have to respond to anything I write ever. I’m about (black) people. You’re the type of person I would like to look dead in the eyes and expose, like the NASCAR homies.

  • Ms. Information

    Me too Mami…get through the bitterness ladies and understand that just because you date “outside” doesn’t mean that you have found a gold mine…the white divorce rate is high as heck…don’t get it twisted. This division is systematic…it is not by happenstance.

  • http://gravatar.com/cocovabarbie Kema

    “And I know they’re not about to tell me that the MAN is leading when she is his financial superior”

    A man does not need to make the most to be the head of household. A true leader is a leader no matter the circumstances. I say this coming from a two parent household where my father made less but was still the head.

    You are right that many women have never seen a man lead so they are resistent to the notion. That is why it is important for men to be in their daughters lives.

    I said this yesterday and will say it again. Black men’s problems are our (black women) problems and vice versa. Until everyone gets that we will be at a loss.

  • Ms. Information

    Whoa Ravi…thanks for that.

  • http://gravatar.com/niajolie JJ

    I never had a black man (or any man for that matter) that cared for me in my life but that hasn’t made me feel that they are all horrible. Some black men are wonderful, some aren’t like any other race of man.

  • African Mami

    “This division is systematic…it is not by happenstance”.

    -Powerful statement-YO!

  • Ravi

    :)

  • Perspective

    “Who are these women that asked to be abandoned in mass? Where is the CHOICE some men make as well.”

    Ok Chrissy – please get off the CLASSIC SISTA RHETORIC. This is what brothas mean by sistas have been making the same talking points since before I was even born.

    I love this concept of abandonment. The main reason why today’s black women don’t get much sympathy from younger black men is because many of us grew up believing the one sided lie that it was ALL BLACK MEN’S FAULT. Then when we came of age most of us started to realize that women were not the perfect angels that society and our mothers led us to believe.

    We watch young black women’s actions as they choose men clearly unfit to be the father only to complain about his abandonment or absence later.

    This is how I know many (I’d like to say most) black women do indeed father children with sorry black men – 0 discretion.

    Bring most of these guys back and they have nothing to offer their children. No skills, no leadership qualities. Not even good manners.

    You see women like to put the blame on the person, (get this,) that they claim that they can clearly out think – hence why he’s not qualified to lead.

    On what planet can the supposed smarter person blame the supposed dumber person and get away with it?

    “And lets please stop pretending black men do not talk negatively about black women.”

    Oh black men most certainly talk negatively about black women – the pot boiled over – that was at least 20 years in the making. It was only the last 5 brothas have spoken out. Prior to that it was barbershop talk – and there would always be some simp in there who was raised by their mother whose father was a deat beat – so you couldn’t even voice any grievance because CaptNSave would come swoop in and hit you with the almighty.

    “YOUR MOTHER’S BLACK!”

    “aww damn well if you take it there, I can say nothing now.”

    Eventually brothas said BUMP THAT – ya’ll be getting away with entirely too much, and took to the internet.

  • Ms. Information

    @ African Mami…thanks sis…but can I get shallow for one minute? Black men are fiioonnnee…the most attractive men on planet earth…and all women know this.

  • Blackwomenknowing

    I love black men. I hate when black men don’t want to show the same equal kind of love to us black women. Black women always got the backs of Black men but Black Men will do like all the other men and abandon us, throw us under the bus, and dehumanize our whole being into account of their own safety and comfort.

  • African Mami

    This is why I fawwwwwwks with Ravi!!

    -Bitter women, please read this brotha’s comment!

  • http://gravatar.com/niajolie JJ

    No decent woman over the age of 21 cares about swag. All I want is a man with a decent job, whose a good, strong man. The end. I prefer black men but if I can’t find this a black man i may have to look elsewhere.

  • hmmmmm

    From you I’ll take that all day. Salute.

  • Ravi

    Men of all stations in life experience massive amounts of rejection. education and career aren’t the only factors that women look for in a man. I know many professional bothers that get routinely rejected because of a wide variety of reasons — physical attractiveness, height, weight, lack of confidence/swag, lack of style, etc. I’m a highly educated professional black man that is rejected more times than not, for many different reasons. It’s hard to speak on someone’s experiences without trying to get in their shoes and walk around for a while.

  • African Mami

    Giiiiiiiiiiirl. Yo, please do! Yesterday I was watching Nas in his new video, and I could not help but literally touch the screen of my kompyuuuura. That man is not even foiiiiiiiiiiiiine, he is ridiculously divine! Let’s not even talk about Lance Gross! I LOVE my coffee BLACK.

  • African Mami

    Ravi,

    You should already know by now, I crush super hard on your intellectual discourse. Who are these women rejecting your foiiiiiiine azz?!

  • Ms. Information

    @ African Mami…Operation Cosign…

  • Tech11

    I couldn’t agree with you more on this. They say i am ugly but yet have no clue on how i look. I mean i ran varsity high school track for 3 years and college track and i am very fit to this day. The problem that i have is that i am bumping into too many black women who are afraid of responsibility, or is expecting me to take care of their children from another man for which i would not do.

    The day i get a daughter, or a child for which i do not have kids because i wanted to be in the right position to be able to bring my children in a stable environment i have to really teach her and show her that there is more to a man than just looks. Maybe that is why we have so many unmarried, single mothers out here because that is all they base their judgment and characteristics on, On how he looks? No wonder we as a black community are at the bottom. Christ.

    So regardless of my skills and ability and contribution i can make towards the black community, you women will simply write me off because of your perceive notion that i am an ugly duckling and gets no play from women. Haven’t you read earlier when i said i have never gotten a problem from white women, Asian women and Latinas, i have ACCESS to these women but chose to remain exclusive to black women for that in itself you women should be honored by that. I do that, i get dogged out for being a gentleman, but other races of women respect it.

    That is why i said i am no longer being exclusive to you women, many of you are very ungrateful creatures, unappreciative and could really careless about any black men that makes sense and holds him self up as a man in this racist society. so why the hell should i continue to be loyal when u have no loyality for me as a hard working black man?

    Whatever, to someone who said 86k is not a lot of money, hey i never said that to be on a bragging rant but to draw a point that regardless of my atrocious grammar, i have other unique qualities about myself that is useful in and towards society.

    I don’t know but the more i interact with other races of women to then come back here and hear the foolishness is the more i am starting to believe that many of you black women are indeed stupid women.

    Now thumbs down that.

    Pathetic. smdh…. thank god i only come to this website once a month. geez who the hell needs this shit.

  • Ravi

    I think you hit the nail on the head with awkward. Everyone doesn’t have tons of confidence and the ability to talk to women. I think I’m fairly attractive, but being situationally awkward has often been my downfall in the past. I’ve gone through many periods in my life without being able to get with a woman. Not to say there weren’t some options, but I’m not the type to just get with someone I’m not feeling just for the sake of getting a girl.

    I do think the gym is an option for an unattractive woman, so I don’t think it’s necessarily harder for her than him. Body is a huge part of what attracts many men. Girls with great bodies will find suitors regardless of what her face looks like.

    Regardless, beauty is subjective. A teacher once told my class back in 7th grade that no matter what you look like, you will come across at least 40 people that find you absolutely beautiful. I see men and women that I think are unattractive, with mates all the time. I think other factors not yet discussed can often be the larger variable.

  • Ms. Information

    These thumbs downers….please get some help for the internal pain that you have suffered…holding on to bitterness causes cancer and other maladies….namaste.

  • African Mami

    I so FRIGGIN heart this chick!!! LMAO!!

  • Ravi

    LOL, I think I appeal to a segment of the population. I do get some wins, but I’m not everyone’s cup of tea. Might be the cheap clothes, old shoes, love of comic books and hard rock, old car, grad student budget, hair that fits no contemporary standards of style, the fact that I don’t drink, or complete lack of bad boy appeal. It really depends on the girl doing the rejecting.

  • Ravi

    Not this black man. I love yall!!!

  • Ravi

    love you too!!!

  • African Mami

    Please continue to accept their rejections of you. It is good. One step closer to us [me and you], finding each other!! LMAO.

  • Beth

    Hey SWP! How you doin??

  • Ravi

    in Charlottesville, VA during the school year and depending on how my final round interview goes this Friday, Detroit, MI for the summer.

  • kamille

    I think it’s not so much of not liking black men. But it’s more of…personal relationships. I love my black father and brothers, as some of the other commenters have mentioned. However, I’ve become disenfranchised with the notion of ‘black comradery’ based on the fact that just because we share the same skin color-doesn’t mean we hold the same interests. I can through up black uncle toms, or black self-hating men/women, or just lower income blacks that relish in ‘ghetto/hip-hop/swag’ culture. I’m finding that I really just don’t feel the way I felt before-rallying the community as a whole. Honestly, there are some blacks that I don’t want in the ‘community’ and wish to separate myself from. Yea, it may sound elitist/classist. It’s not coming out of a place of ‘oh I’m better than you,’ it’s coming out of a place of-we have different morals/interests. And to each his own. I have NOTHING in common with another black female that only cares about ‘swag culture and p*ssy popping.’ Sorry-just don’t. Same with black males that are on b.s.

    So for me, it’s not a wholesale disillusionment with black men. Do I believe that black men solely belong to me? Honestly, no. I just don’t feel like they’re OUR men exclusively (in a romantic sense). I don’t feel any pressure to date/marry a black man. And maybe that’s just coming from my experience as a black woman who’s still in college and is dating. I’ve dated white men, Indian men, Middle-Eastern (Lebanese to be exact), and don’t get me started on Latinos (Mexican, Panamanian, Dominican, Puerto Rican). And of course, black men. I’m currently in a relationship with a brotha from Tanzania, straight from the motherland lol. And I love him with all my heart, not because he’s black but because of his character and we have mutual morals/interests. So do I like black men? Depends on who and what you’re talking about. I’ll support any brotha that’s doing good for the community and advocates change.

  • Ravi

    have to accept the rejection. just a risk of participating. maybe rejection is just doors opening to where you are supposed to be in the first place.

  • Ms. Information

    @ Tech…many women here are speaking out of their pain that has grown into bitterness because of what a man or men have done to them…better yet, what they have allowed men to do to them. But, understand that women of other races have “issues” too…you sound like an accomplished brother who is trying to stay with black women…but understand that as black women we deal with a set of problems and barriers just as black men do. Some just handle it better than others. If you really want a good black woman, we are out here. You just may not find us in the club. You also have FULL rights to not want a ready made family, I am a woman and I don’t want one. Don’t gauge your experience with black women on a couple of thumbs downing trolls on a website. FYI 86K is good money to me and if I made it I would probably be in Brazil somewhere instead of typing on this computer.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    This! All this Mina especially the last paragraph. Wonderful article! I must say that some of the comments on that article made me feel a certain type of way and it wasn’t good. But to answer the question, I like a CERTAIN caliber of black men too that is often underrepresented in the media and society. I love hard working black men, black men who believes in the family unit, black men who are great fathers, black men who are successful in whatever they do, black men with goals and passions, black men who don’t damage their community, black men who aren’t followers and buys into the stereotypical image of what a “black man should be”, black men who are educated, etc. THESE ARE THE MEN that we need to get back too and see/raise in the future. I don’t like the black men that that is often portrayed i.e. the thugs, killers, dead beat dads, drug dealers, ones with no respect for authority and other people, those who gave up and is not a pollutant in our community, the ones that disrespects black women, etc. THOSE are the ones that I personally dislike. But ironically I still don’t hate them I’ am just fed up with them and the potential they throw away. But it is easier to push the blame on black men/boys because it is easier to defer to the same argument of “personal responsibility and accountability” yet sadly there are plenty of black women out there that had a helping hand in creating this problem/image.

  • Comment

    Should have clarified, I like *married* older black men who were wise enough to settle down with a strong black queen when they were younger. They are usually the ones with the most knowledge to share with younger people IMO

  • Beth

    “– they would look foolish to actually find out that they avoid men who can stand on their own two feet. ”
    “a Tupac will try to run his castle.”

    Barring disenfranchised black women that come from an impoverished socioeconomic background, who DOESN’T require a man to have his own? I would say that nearly ALL healthy, well-adjusted women regardless of race or ethnicity strongly desire a man who supports himself, takes care of his responsibilities and has goals/plans in mind. The “professional” black man in question probably doesn’t attract women due to a multitude of very real PSYCHOLOGICAL issues that are off putting and disgusting to women of all colors! I know from experience the genre of men that gross me out the most are mid thirties-forties professional black men (I’m 26 and in shape) they are so lecherous and entitled. THAT is why they repel women.

    It seems like for all of your arguments about relationships you miss the bigger picture of what women are looking for in a relationship. Women of all racial backgrounds want to feel loved, cherished, taken care of, etc. Someone ranting about how much they have and what that should afford him, saying he’s “leading” and that one must “get on his program” is fundamentally disrespectful and no woman with any dignity would entertain an a**hole like that for a second (although there are enough insecure, mentally ill women in the world dating these men to make them feel like they are normal). You always worry about wealth, status, building, leading. What in the world makes you think women-forget black women but any women have that first and foremost in their minds when dating men? Most women want a guy that’s fun, makes them feel like a woman, and yes, can provide support but most women have their basic needs met already so that’s not the issue. It seems you are stuck in a pathology that relates marriage and relationships to economic arrangements. The world has moved on, most people of other races in America date because they love each other. Besides immigrants and people from extremely impoverished backgrounds most women don’t marry for money.

    And what kind of “program” are you referring to? Please explain what you mean by program. Why does a relationship always have to be defined by domination/submission, leading/control, etc. Why isn’t it that two like-minded people should marry and live their lives in a way that is authentic to them both? If that’s not the case they shouldn’t get married. But the idea that a woman gets married, then is on a man’s “program” is so misogynistic and dated. Being in a marriage does not mean you give up the right to think for yourself.

  • Comment

    Also, not talking about men for dating, just men in general. I need a ginseng or something

  • Barbara

    Female what?? You “males” kill me, HTF do you come onto a women’s site and your first two words blatantly disrespect (black) women. Female f*ing what?

  • MissDee

    What a question. They’re the only men I’ve ever known and I really have no desire to know any other men in whatever color. I’m talking of African men.

  • Perspective

    Oooo @ Kema

    FLAG ON THE PLAY
    FLAG ON THE PLAY
    FLAG ON THE PLAY.

    I really hope that everyone is tuning into this one.

    “A man does not need to make the most to be the head of household. A true leader is a leader no matter the circumstances.”

    Black women say this and then many of you wonder why we have so many black men living in their mothers basement without a pot to… who will swear up and down that JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE A MAN that they should be running things.

    Wrong!

    The truth is – your mother is allowing your father to lead IF that is what she is doing. Your father is NOT the leader.

    Black women need to get this thru their heads, and black men need to get this thru their heads.

    Truthfully most sistas already know this – hence the whole theme behind getting with less established men.

    You are NOT about to tell me that a man can manage money that he’s not even making. Seriously sit down and think about that. You are NOT about to tell me that a man is running a house that he did not build nor owns. If your mother and father put their money together that’s fine, but your father being in the lesser financial position DOES NOT have veto power simply because he’s a man. HE/SHE who has the gold has the power. END OF STORY.

    Whatever compromises people make is up to them – but as a rule – MONEY IS WHERE THE POWER IS.

  • Wills

    The problem is not, do you love Black men. The question is, do you respect them? Black women love Black men to a fault. I strongly believe Black men love us too. But do they respect us? That is the real issue.

  • Perspective

    @ Kema

    What many men and women don’t understand is that this whole men NOT ACTUALLY being in the proper financial position and still believing themselves to be the head spills into other areas.

    Now you have men who are complacent because they think that BEING A GOOD MAN/HUSBAND is good enough and satisfies their manhood requirements.

    Its a problem because when you want to start talking about black men creating financial opportunities in their own community what you come to find out is that black men who puff their chest out to being the head of house hold have to run and ask their women for financial support in order to create any of those desperately needed opportunities. Many women know this, and they LIKE IT THAT WAY, but it comes at a cost.

    I don’t have the room to get into all that, I’m just saying women really need to stop with all this MAN-STROKING – he’s still the man garbage. Then when some serious stuff comes up – what do you know – “THE ORIGINAL MAN” isn’t in the financial position to do anything about it because he got comfortable because his woman who wanted to PACIFY him was telling him how much of a SUPER MAN he was.

    I really wish brothas would stop falling for that garbage because as soon as SHE gets pissed off she’s gonna pull RANK ON YOUR ASS REAL QUICK.

    Ninja it’s MY CAR, MY HOUSE, MY PHONE!

    I have no clue how so many man don’t see the Hustle in that – ladies are dusting their shoulders off everywhere.

    “You right you right – You got us!”

    Don’t I know it!

  • p

    Honestly. I dont. Not american black men i dont. Truth. I like african ones and carribean ones but american. I dont. And its because of my history with them but since i started in church im better but id say no. And they dont like me either. So were even.

  • Wills

    Love without the respect is abuse.

  • p

    Its impossible to divorce yourself from your experiences but trully im trying, thanks fir being honest it could b maybe ive not been around the good ones

  • p

    I agree. And its bc of the atitudes expressed. Almost all my friends have married black men abroad african carib etc bc of this reason. Its a shame but real. And they still complain steada asking why. Sorry how i feel

  • p

    Thought it was me my girls married ghanian , jamacian whatever men much to their families distress im sure but american men presented too many issues

  • ?!?

    Gotcha. We’re controlling. You didn’t have to break it down. I’ve heard it many times before.

    I simply don’t think that this stereotype is the only reason that some successful BM are unable to find a woman. I think men should own up to sometimes not being all that and a bag of chips. Some professional BM are not all that and have room for improvement, but because they have a good job they think they are amazing and entitled to a beautiful woman. You are right. I don’t know what this man looks like, but I just get sick of hearing good men say that the reason they are single or dating outside the race is because BW are crazy. We are controlling or chasing after Lil’ Wayne. Obviously these stereotypes wouldn’t exist if women weren’t doing these things, but they’re generalizations. The BW are controlling and masculine stereotype is on the same level as black men ain’t ish. Is it okay when we say black men ain’t ish? No. But we’re supposed to accept it when you say that BW are controlling.

    I don’t know about this guy but many times when professional black men start complaining, they never mention that there is room for personal improvement. It’s like Sherri Shepard and the women in that Dateline special audience wondering why they can’t find a successful black man while being overweight and looking for a man to help with weave maintenance. Sherri also seems a bit silly. Many people have room for personal improvement but would rather place all the blame on the other group.

  • Downsouth Transplant

    @ Ravi & African Mami, please go ahead exchange some digits i can facilitate it, & i am rooting for you both srlsy, (ps of course i am cheering for my home girl LOL)

  • http://gravatar.com/g2-5bad1203f6a970f65345273e8eff5cd2 jazzyphile

    Don’t take advice from a “Bully in Brooklyn”.

  • ?!?

    And black women who are still stuck on swag after character past their college years are usually idiots. Women like that are perfectly matched up with the ain’t ish men. This is what I mean about how black women who behave badly are never lonely. Men spend so much time wondering about these types of women. They must be very physically attractive – the dymes I guess because I don’t spend time thinking about how to get physically attractive thugs to act right.

    Thugs and swag over good guys is the black version of jocks vs. nerds. It is natural I think for women to desire the most masculine men in the neighborhood just like men desire the most beautiful women. People have to be taught that other things are more important that stable families aren’t built off of swag and big butts. Obviously many black men and women haven’t been taught these things and they mess up before they figure it out. It’s another thing that comes from bad culture.

  • ?!?

    @Ravi – Yes. I am a bit awkward and definitely not the life of the party and find it hard to interact with people that way. I do understand that many men don’t have a steady stream of women in constant rotation. I suppose it can be frustrating when men who are undeserving continue to win in the dating game.

    You are one of the nicer male commenters, so I will ask you. Are some of the women you deal with unreasonable about their expectations of black men and swag, or are they controlling? If so, do you try to give them advice and are they receptive?

    In all of this complaining about black relationships, I find that black people are just on completely different pages about what they want from their relationships. Maybe it’s the clash between traditional relationships and the newer male/female relationships influenced by hip hop and popular culture. I think black people who are less influenced by the media are more likely to have traditional values when it comes to dating. Maybe some black men are interested in traditional relationships but keep running into women who place too much emphasis on swag and materialistic things and hip hop culture. Maybe it’s the circles some people are in.

  • Ravi

    judging by the thumbs down, some of them seem to be reading.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    i thought this thread was about black women likes of black men, plural.
    not a lonely hearts.

    sorry dude, wrong column.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    just cause some brother can’t get a date is no reflection on black women

  • The Other Jess

    wow. what kind of dumb ass question is that? really it should be the other way around – do black men really like black women. i think we all know the answer to that one.

    once again, clutch tries to guilt black women into not having opinions or criticisms ( other than those that are glowing) about black men by basically threatening us by saying our criticisms mean we “really don’t like” black men…. smdh.

    clutch really needs some more original, intelligent topics.

  • The Other Jess

    don’t flatter yourself, dude

  • Rue

    To answer the question:yes!! I like black men. not all but some. As it should be. there are a ton of good men and more than a ton of bad ones, so no need to write off all members of a group b/c some haven’t treated you right. The bottom line is this: if you want a man with a masters degree, who likes Kurt Cobain, and can pay for a meal, then avoid the jailbird who is on food stamps like the plague. You will get let down and become bitter, when its partly your fault. Also, to those who say “I only like African/West Indian men” I can tell you as a west Indian immigrant who (occasionally) babysits for an African family, and lives in an area with a whole barrage of Nigerian, Cote D’Ivorian people,they are not all “The $h!t”. They (especially Nigerians) seem shiny and new in large part b/c of their college education rates, but if college education is what you’re after then say ” I like men with college degrees”. For the record, some black men are not attracted to me because i am waifish, slender, skin and bones, or “2 meals away from disappearing”, as one feisty woman put it, but i don’t let it bother me. If you are hung up on “junk in the trunk” then I probably wouldn’t be attracted to you in the first place.

  • The Other Jess

    that was to ?!? by the way, not ravi.

    anyway, another stupid article by clutch. boy..

  • The Other Jess

    totally agree. her articles are beyond asinine. this chick needs therapy – badly

  • B

    What’s so called love w/o respect? Worthless.

  • Sondra

    Most black men are closet gays and/or drug users. They value “swag” over a real job, and they have no respect for women. And that’s why I, a black woman, prefer white men. They’re much classier!

  • Rue

    Oh, Jehovah! I Hate, hate, when women say they don’t want a man cause he has “no swag”. This is code for: “he has no flashy, jewelry, an ability to speak proper English, and no nor desire potential to make it in music/sports”. Please do not come crying to me when Mr. Swaggerific turns out to be a rat-bastard, as I tend to be as warm-hearted as the Arctic circle.

    That being said, Ravi, there are plenty of black women, who like awkward and eclectic men. When I passed over i just think that its one less person who I have to listen to smacking their lips and wiping their face with the napkins in a fancy restaurant and sigh with relief.

  • Rue

    Honey according to the stats, a large percentage of men men-black white, doesn’t matter-are gay, have gay fantasies, have tried it, want to try it, have tried it and liked it, and will try it again, so that narrows it down quite a nit. As for drug use,, again the stats say that white men use drugs more than black men, black men just get caught more (read:Stop and Frisk Law). And as for the classier bit, I would laugh if it weren’t sad.

  • MommieDearest

    This is by far the most reasonable, balanced and sensible comment on this thread. I have nothing else to add, except Thank you.

  • simplyme

    @SMH

    You know whats ironic? All of your comments kind of prove the points of the women you reply to… you seem to be the epitome of the type of man she describes…

  • A

    I appreciate a woman who speaks sense (based on facts), as opposed to hearing the played out and draining “Most black people are *negative detail here* statements.

  • Ravi

    ?!?
    It’s hard to generalize because I deal with a lot of different types of black women. For the most part, I wouldn’t say that they are unreasonable in their expectations of black men. Most of the women I deal with are in very high demand, so they have plenty of options and tend to exercise them. They are able to have a long list of criteria and still have plenty of potential candidates. Given my aforementioned eccentricities, I don’t make the cut for the majority of women that I would deem prospects for dating that I come across. I don’t think that their criteria are always the most beneficial, but still not unreasonable. For example, if I get rejected because I don’t have a passport, or because I’m black, I think that her criteria might be poorly chosen or shallow, but given the fact that she can easily find a white guy or a guy with a passport, I wouldn’t say unreasonable. Unreasonable seems to be a function of whether or not she can find prospects that meet the criteria in question. I think swag is another poorly chosen criteria, but still not unreasonable. In all fairness, I think some of my criteria for potential mates are pretty poorly chosen and shallow.

    I don’t know too many controlling women. I know a handful, but they tend to be the exception. I tend not to give women unsolicited advice these days, but if someone asks they tend to be receptive. Most women I personally deal with don’t need a lot of advice when it comes to men. I may give my male perspective on appearance — like my disdain for makeup, love of kinky hair, or why they get hit on at the gym. I know some women that have had difficulties and I tell them to try being more proactive. Lots of guys like me aren’t going to make the first move, so they get overlooked because of the assumption that all men pursue anyone they like. Sometimes a simple hello or a smile will suffice. They seem receptive to the idea, but tend to fear rejection too much to really act on it.

    It’s hard to come up with a single problem with black relationships. I think part of it is the internalized oppression and white supremacy. We are starting to devalue each other and take on the white supremacist perspective of blackness. I think maybe this is how imperialism and hegemony always work. We start to shape our preferences around traits that tend to preference those in power. Seems to me like college admissions, where there may not be any facial discrimination, but all of the criteria used tend to advantage those in power. There are likely tons of variables at play, so it’s hard to make any good generalizations.

  • C

    Wow, 9 pages…

  • Egypt

    Lawd!! Nine pages of comments..I quit.

  • Ms. Information

    Thanks SMH…that is a very gracious comment….I credit my grandmother most of all who gives me perspective of how things have changed for black men and women…who didn’t become bitter after things happened to her and my mom and dad who are a great representation of what black love was, is and should be.

  • simplyme

    This is a heavy question… I don’t think I’m old enough to be bitter about men yet, I haven’t been burned by past relationships, I have a dad that was around, I have 2 amazing brothers and a few Black male friends who I adore and respect… but for some reason I couldn’t just blurt out “yes!”

    Its actually something I think about from time to time. I don’t think it helps that there is a generally negative image of Black men in society as it is(irresponsible, lacking character, unable to commit), but even when Black men don’t fit this negative stereotype the assumption is that they have other issues (self hate, dislikes Black women or Black people as a whole, arrogant, cheater, misogynistic etc.) As some commenters alluded to earlier, I think these negative feelings Black women have about Black men seem to come from hurt…because I’m not sure if Black men as a whole actually like Black women as a whole either. In the U.S., Black people as a collective unit are broken.

    A lot of Black women seem to feel like they have been failed, disappointed, abandoned not included…whether on a societal level with regards to women’s issues in the Black community, misogyny in hip hop culture that is defended by otherwise intelligent men, the abandonment of children and mothers, the praise of women that are not Black or the praise of the things that are least Black in Black women (ie lighter skin) whether direct or subconscious. Women pick up on the fact that despite what they may say (or even really feel) men will almost always choose Beyonce over Kelly. The track record doesn’t look so great… but it takes effort to prevent these assumptions from clouding your views of the entire group of Black men. You would think it would be easier as Black women who face the same problems regarding assumptions and stereotypes but we’re all human. At this point in my life (wise old age of 24), all I can say is that I like men who like me and are genuinely good hearted people. I try to give every person I meet the benefit of the doubt irregardless of race.

  • Nic

    Yes, I’m sure everyone is weeping that some illiterate idiot doesn’t want to date black women anymore. And seriously, how successful are you with White or Asian women if you are black, dumb, and poor (b/c no one who sounds like that could possibly have a good job that doesn’t involve throwing a ball around).

  • Nic

    I know right, the fact that he thinks that makes him a big shot says SO much about where he is from and who he likely associates with.

  • Comment

    Eh, I will be the one to say it. Please don’t take it too personally but it is women like you and your friend that keep many black men complacent and unmotivated to change. It’s coddling, and they’ve been getting that ever since they were little boys. I don’t know why certain black women feel this knee jerk need to run to the defense of grown men who should be able to amply defend themselves at this point in their lives. I believe Tech11 is unable to defend himself because he has other issues — he has some more maturing to do. A women hiding him under her skirt is not going to help — only hurt him more. So again hopefully you won’t take this too personally, but I felt it needed to be said. Ladies, let men be men that is the best gift we can offer them at this point.

  • Perspective

    @ Beth

    You can dismiss an established man all day with everything that you say about why he’s such a bad person – at that point I say – Just don’t be with him. It’s just that simple.

    My point is that women are avoiding established black men because in all this time that the black man has been financially not where he should be at the collective level the black community has deteriorated and black women have evolved OUT of valuing these type of men – NOT FOR LOVE – but for building up the black community. Based even on black women’s complaints alone, it is black MEN’S responsibility to establish and economic foundation in the black community.

    Go right ahead and COMPLETELY base the value of a man on all this INTRINSIC stuff and I can assure you the black community will continue to stay broken, black women will be dependent on white men for jobs as its always been, and the problems that exist in the black community due to black men not being in the proper financial position will continue.

    Sista fail to realize that the black community is matriarchal and the whole rest of the world is patriarchal. I see many women who want their cake and eat it too. White women are put on a pedestal by white men who control the economic landscape of their communities, as soon as you say that black men need to be in the same position for the same thing to happen black women want to highlight how much white women are oppressed.

    In other words – Pedestal Oppression. Many black women want to benefits of a patriarchy without actually having one. That is my overall point.

    I’m here to tell you it’s not going to happen because once a black man realizes that he’s simply not going to participate in the “culture” of black women and how they want things to go down.

    Its not just about what the black woman wants – and it’s not just about what black men want – but there really is no equality when MEN are assigned the task of protecting, providing, and creating. Women say they want equality – but as soon as men hand then a shovel sistas start crying – “well white women don’t have to do that…” They may complain, but they most certainly are not trying to take control. There are entirely too many benefits for them to be apart of a white patriarchy.

    Marriage is an economic arrangement always has been. Especially when you start talking about children, passing on wealth, and economic opportunities. Love is a wonderful thing, but love doesn’t pay the light bill, it doesn’t provide for children, and it most certainly doesn’t build economic opportunity in the black community which is the root cause of much of the disarray when it comes to the black family.

  • Perspective

    “No decent woman over the age of 21 cares about swag.”

    LOL – who said anything about DECENT women wanting men with just swag.

    The question is how many black women over 21 are DECENT.

    let me guess 95% of them

    Obviously I’m being sarcastic but I could argue just how many decent men are out there just as you could argue how many decent women are out there. That’s not a debate that either one of us is going to win.

    I don’t care for the ABC special 3 black men for every 100 black women.

  • Perspective

    You know what’s funny – black women will say that same thing about black men over looking them for the Bootiest Chick, or the Baddest B.

    Their complaints are black men are all in jail, uneducated, jobless, deadbeats – and then as soon as a dude meets that criteria women switch the argument to – Oh he ain’t FINE or he LACKS SWAG.

    I’m not saying women are wrong – shoot I hate when I say I like natural black women and then every fugly woman with natural hair jumps up and say, “but i’m natural.”

    Yea i wanted natural but I wasn’t thinking Whoopi Goldberg.

    So I hear ya’ll on that – brothas are just basing it on yall complaints about black men.

  • lol

    from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

  • Wills

    Love without respect IS abuse…

  • Wills

    What in-the-colonized-sickness-have-they put in your Koolaide?

  • Wills

    All dating is mansharing/ womansharing until you get married.

  • Wills

    That’s a shame that you have not met, or know American Black guys who deserve your respect… that is all I have known my entire life… Part of that is you have been taught, either, through cultural or ethnic lack of knowledge, lack of access to American black men of different, soci-economic backgrounds, and because of that, my guess is the people around you have helped support this negative idea. you may be missing out on the most perfect man in the world for you, due to those problems…

  • Wills

    … And you dealt where around those in Church? There is your problem… Please forgive me all good Church going Christan folk, but dose of reality.. the good Black guys in church are with their wives and children. These tend to be the black guys in church;

    1. I just got out of jail/ out of rehab. I’m homeless i need a meal… jesus fix me…
    2. Elderly men who are trying to get it right before they check out…
    3. The poor gay guy who is trying to overcompensate for their obvious homosexuality.
    4. The pimp, who knows that there are alot of lonley, desperate, do anything and been praying for a man black babes who have been tricked all their lives in to believing that a good man goes to church (which may include the minister)

    The man most women want is watching ESPN on Sunday morning…

  • omfg

    oh ravi.

    how do you know why you are being rejected?

    if you don’t make the first move (as many of the men who are getting the girl do), how do you get the opportunity to be in front of the women you claim reject you? you seem pretty passive and i’m thinking the kinds of women you are interested do not want that. not saying they want a domineering man though.

    and, i gotta say that while on the surface dissing you for not having a passport seems shallow, i think that if you look deeper those women are probably thinking you lack sophistication and are not curious enough about the world to travel. this is not shallow. they feel it’s saying something about you – whether it’s about your fear of change, your inability or unwillingness to learn about others, etc. suppose she is adventurous and wants to go to thailand but you’d rather stay home and watch tv. sometimes, the little things about someone are incredibly illuminating.

    that is all…

  • omfg

    although black men have been most helpful to me in my professional life (more than black women), i avoid them in my personal life. they treat me poorly and i KNOW that my value to them is very little. sorry, but black men just do not get extra points from me. my personal life – as in people i interact with in normal life and those who may be interested in me…

  • Morgan

    See, who are you asking out? Because I know a lot of women who are into all that, but they are the female version, quirky grad school girl.

  • http://gravatar.com/templet00 templet00

    “Why do these angry, bitter self-haters still get mad that society doesn’t find them appealing?” SMH @ 2:16pm, Oct. 3

    You need to make up your mind. First you say society creates the standard (FYI, “society” includes you). Then you say the culprit is self-hate. Are you even literate? Never mind, you don’t have to decide, society (FYI, “society” includes me) has already decided for you–you are irrelevant, a nonentity.

  • http://gravatar.com/templet00 templet00

    Sorry, but the system of white supremacy has gone into retirement. No need to hustle anymore. The black group is doing all the work for the System. And not even asking for a fair wage. Just happy to do the work for free. It’s all love.

  • http://gravatar.com/templet00 templet00

    ^^^This! Thank you for dumping the extraneous “black women have a never-ending non-recipricated responsibility to ALL black men” bull.

    FYI, my daddy is not EVERY black man breathing. My dad understands the danger of low expectations. And he agrees that having the only requirement be a black penis is waaaaay low.

  • http://gravatar.com/perrero62 perrero62

    Okaaaayyyy . . . I see we’re still hating on each other . . . oh, goody!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/templet00 templet00

    “those men keep it moving to the women who appreciate them. That’s what all men (should) do.”

    It’s all men AND women should do. Keep it moving to/with the people who appreciate them (no matter the color). Yeah, I agree, K. Michel.

  • Nikki

    I’m a black grad student in C-ville…why don’t I know you! lol

  • Eric

    Testing

  • Kwame

    Ironically, this is the topic that every BM/BW cannot resist.

  • http://gravatar.com/worshipandpraise JN

    Ravi, I be crushing on you big time. Black women are rejecting you? I want names. And then I want a date lol.

  • Tina

    I have been lied to, cheated on and disgusted in relationships. But I haven’t given up on my people, and I haven’t given up on my black men.I don’t dog my black men in public or private, I will not add to the conversation, I have ived long enough and have enough experience to gain the wisdom that one bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch.

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