Is It Ever Okay to Date A Married Man?

by Demetria L. Lucas

I was stuck in my house all day Monday waiting on Hurricane Sandy to unleash her fury on the East Coast. I planned to be productive—touching up the edges on my most recent paint job and putting a dent in my read of Rebecca Walker’s Black Cool. Instead, I mindlessly spent (i.e., wasted) most of the day flipping through fashion magazines and scanning celebrity “news” sites to distract myself from impending doom. Oops!

It seemed “everyone” who wasn’t talking about Sandy was talking about the lavish bash that supermodel Naomi Campbell is planning to mark the 50th birthday (Nov. 7) of her billionaire Russian boyfriend, Vladislav Doronin. The details read (and looked) like an event planner’s wet dream: an alleged four-day affair in India, a booked solid palace where a one-bedroom suite costs upwards of $12k a night, and an imagined guest list that read like a Who’s Who of the world’s A-List. Must be nice.

Each article reveled in the would-be decadence of it all, but no one seemed able to avoid the figurative elephant that would be in the Indian room. Naomi’s very sexy, very rich boo? The one that’s held her down since 2008, accompanies her to red carpets, vacations with her around the world, and even once subjected himself to an inquisition by Oprah to stand by his lady? Welp, he’s still married. Bossip, unsurprisingly, took the hardest dig: “Guess when you can’t get married cuz your boo still ain’t divorced you have to get creative about other kinds of celebrations…” I mean, it’s true, but… Ouch!

When it comes to coaching clients or doling out dating/relationship advice, I take a hard-line on dating married — that includes separated, like Doronin — men. I can’t forget the story of YaVaughnie Wilkins, the jilted woman who dated a man who was separated from his wife for 8 and a half “serious” years. (Wilkins said she didn’t know he was still married.) But then, her boyfriend, after all that time, decided to go back to his wife. Wilkins made headlines after setting up a website showcasing mementos from their relationship and took out billboards in three different cities because she wanted to debunk many people’s assumptions that she was someone her ex had “just” passed (all that) time with but that she actually mattered to him, at least before he went home.

I’d heard or seen similar stories — sans the websites and billboards — from friends or friends of my family. One of them was the friend of my dad’s, so close to the fam that I called him “Uncle Chuck” and he always showed up at our house with “Aunt Kitty.” At seven or so, I just assumed she was his wife like all the other non-blood related women who I called “Aunt” who showed up with men I called “Uncle” (All of my parents’ friends were married too.)

But then one day, nearly a decade years later, “Uncle Chuck” showed up with a woman my mother introduced as “Aunt Lisa.” I’m sorry, who? My mother explained she, Aunt Lisa, was his wife.

Me (at like 18, upstairs in the kitchen two minutes later): He left Aunt Kitty? He’s re-married already!

Mom: Uhh … Aunt Lisa’s always been his wife. They’re back together.

Me: Huh?

Mom: Mind your business and take the potato salad downstairs to your father.

For good (and polite) reason, I never saw, heard from, and rarely heard of “Aunt Kitty” again. It was like she never existed. (Damn shame because I really liked her too.) Aunt Lisa was here… or er, back after all those years, sliding right back into her seat, an easily made claim since there was never a divorce, which meant she never gave it up. And that was that. I did learn a lesson though: separated means just that. It doesn’t mean “over.”

Neither one of these scenarios is likely to happen to Naomi Campbell — but I guess that’s probably what Wilkins and “Aunt Kitty” thought too, huh? Anyway, Campbell’s boyfriend has been separated from his wife for at least twelve years now, and prior to hooking up with Campbell at Cannes, Doronin had a seven-year relationship with another woman. Doronin’s wife seems to be okay with the situation as she, her daughter, her husband, and Campbell have been spotted at events together. Despite rumors from earlier this year that the wife had clowned Naomi and was planning to file for divorce, “friends” of his wife say she has no plans to do so and she and her husband live separate lives.

Doronin and Campbell travel the world together, he dotes on her, splurging on homes — note: not bags and shoes — and when they’re actually “home” in Moscow, they live together. Doronin seems to be building a life with Campbell. I don’t know why he’s still married. It doesn’t appear that he is still in love with his wife. Perhaps if I had a better understanding of Russian divorce laws, I could gander that his reasoning is along the “cheaper to keep her” lines. Maybe there’s another reason entirely.

I do know, Doronin seems happy, Campbell seems happy, and so does his still wife.  His divorce, or lack there of, doesn’t seem to matter to any of them. But should it? (That’s not a judgment. That’s a question.) There’s a popular line of thinking — that means you, Bossip —that Campbell is playing herself by being a mistress, that Doronin’s wife is getting played by having her husband publicly claiming another woman, and Doronin, well, he’s just a player.

Would you be okay with dating a separated man like Doronin? (Okay, what if he didn’t have Doronin’s money, power, or privilege? That was a joke… sorta.)

Demetria L. Lucas is the author of “A Belle in Brooklyn: The Go-to Girl for Advice on Living Your Best Single Life” (Atria) in stores now. Follow her on Twitter @abelleinbk

 

  • Yvette

    Considering he’s a billionaire, it seems like money is not the reason why he chooses to stay married. He does it because Naomi and his wife let him get away with it. He doesn’t respect either woman enough to get a divorce, and unfortunately they don’t respect themselves either.

  • __A

    No. Naomi and her boyfriend are doing whatever they want to do. I don’t really understand it. Maybe he thinks marriage is forever or he wants to continue to provide for his wife and child. Either way, it’s not something other woman should try to do. The average woman will probably end up like Aunt Kitty.

  • AJ

    He is nice looking….
    Separated whatever, at least she knows and she can do what she please

  • Misshightower

    If he’s married to you!

  • http://twitter.com/mz585_81 Mz.Scott (@mz585_81)

    It alot of ppl that are married that either date or cheat. His wife knowns evidently an chose to stay . So if it was a problem she would of divorce him a long time ago .. Look @ Kim K n other whose are still married but separated but still date … In my opinion Naomi knows her position and could have anybody she want … 50 n Still a Top Model-gorgeous.. He’s a billionaire ..Enough said…. This is my opinion..

  • emme

    I have been in this world a very long time and sometimes you have to do what makes you happy. They are both very happy together, the wife doesn’t have an issue with it and from I understand they have all vacationed together as a “family” and get along wonderfully. So you ask if I would be okay dating a gorgeous billionaire who was separated from his wife for a number of years who doted on me hand and foot, neither money nor time is an issue for him….hell yeah I would be cool with that! Now if he was just an average joe…..hell to the naw! Call me what you want but I am keeping as real as real can get. The last thing I read on them said that he was building her yet another mansion in some exotic country and they don’t go to Cheesecake Factory for her birthday they live on the French Riviera on a yacht for several months in celebration of her big day! If all parties involved understand the deal and are happy with the circumstances then why the hell not? I don’t understand or know anything about marriage law in Russia so I can’t speak on why he is still legally married however I can’t believe that a woman like Naomi would stand for the okey doke especially since she can have any man in the world that she wants. I say do you girl!

  • http://gravatar.com/tiffywiffy88 Tiffy

    Your right in a since but I believe I read somewhere if they divorce she will get close to half of his money even though there on good terms it has something to do with Russian laws but it’s not worth it though

  • Cocochanel31

    He probably doesn’t want to give the wife half/alimony/court fees which she would probably be entitled to since she probably never had to work while with him, or the wife is not granting him a divorce ( if he wants to lose half ) out of SPITE!!

    Seems messy all around but clearly Naomi doesn’t mind. Kanye shrug.

  • lol

    it’s never ok to date a married man.

    never.

    not in my book.

    but guess what i’ve learned as i’ve matured?

    1) there are people out here who live by different rules and have needs and wants that are different from mine, so whether it’s Naomi or the everyday chick down the road, she can do whatever she pleases.it’s her life and she’s an adult.

    2)rich folk sometimes live by VERRRY different rules than the rest of us.

    just one caveat.

    please don’t be the one crying about “he did me wrong” if this doesn’t work out.

    people tend to not have too much sympathy for a person who abandons the safe, conventional way of doing things.

  • Natalie B

    Personally, I wouldn’t do it, but as previously noted, he’s a billionaire and he’s gorgeous. I don’t see how his wife tolerates their relationship being thrown in her face, but she must be okay with it.

  • Dalili

    No.

  • http://gravatar.com/thereluctantsocialite thereluctantsocialite

    “Look @ Kim K n other whose are still married but separated but still date”

    Right. It kind of bugs me that people have been so hard on Kim because she started dating again before she’s officially divorced. Its very obvious that she and her husband aren’t getting back together. So… on that end, I don’t really see what the big deal is, logically speaking. However, I know that everybody views things differently according to their values.

    I feel like once both parties have decided to go ahead and end things, that the marriage at that point is nothing more than a legal matter that needs to be resolved. I’ve had a few friends who decided to start dating again before their divorce was finalized and it worked for them. I still feel like its best to not date until you’re officially divorced, though. Not necessarily for moral reasons, but more so to avoid the unnecessary drama of dealing with unresolved baggage.

    What I don’t understand is dating while “separated”. In my opinion, separation is supposed to be for having space and time to think about if the marriage can be salvaged and to work on yourself… not necessarily to date other people. But I guess each couple defines what that means for themselves.

    The whole situation with Naomi, her boyfriend and his wife is weird, though. I would also like to know why he won’t divorce his wife if they’ve been living separate lives for 12 years. But… if they’re all cool with it, then it is what it is, I guess.

    I wonder if the wife has a boyfriend, too?

  • A true Delta

    They have both stated before that the marriage is only because of the money. She is fully aware of Campbell and she still loves her husband.

  • Perspective

    @ Yvette – WRONG!

    SMH – at the women who can’t see the forest for the trees.

    He does it because (as a rule) white men with that type of power and wealth are keeping their money WHITE! His legacy will go to his “white daughter” and his wealth will stay within the Russian circles of power. They will NOT be transferred to BLACK PEOPLE in any shape, fashion, or form through a black woman.

    I keep seeing BW IR fantasies constantly shatter – Keep in mind I’m not a IR dating promoter for black men either.

    George Lucas still hasn’t married his black woman – Why?

    Same reason I just listed above.

    I can see many black women really don’t understand this game of money, power, and legacies that are transferred THROUGH MEN.

    White men are the maintainers and keepers of their community. This idea that we are all one, and you find love where you find it – follow the money and you will see that the money does not move with the love, too often.

    To me, it’s blatantly disrespectful.

    If this was a black man, sistas would have a field day about black men who refuse to commit and won’t VALIDATE AND LEGITIMIZE Naomi Campbell.

    As of right now – she’s just his NEGRO BED WENCH – unfortunately. Even she needs to wake up and realize this, and I agree with the above comment that she is simply ALLOWING it to happen.

    But as I have said – when sistas really want a white man – they let a lot of stuff slide that would be their number one complaint with brothas.

    I guess being a Billionaire will suffice. I’m not knocking it – I just think REGULAR black women need to think a bit more before they jump up and try to us NAOMI CAMPBELL as the poster child for black women being in vogue and desired by white men, also this whole promotion of IR dating.

    To me – she’s just a real life example of OLIVIA POPE – not legitimized.

    And also to another comment Naomi is no different than Kim K in this regard. Neither her or Kim have secured a man. Kanye hasn’t wifed Kim and Doronin hasn’t wifed Naomi

  • Perspective

    1) She’s already paid

    2) They have a daughter together – so there is his legacy and heir to pass on his wealth

    3) I don’t know Russian law, nor do I know if his wife is Russian – bottom line she ain’t black that money will NOT be transferred to Naomi in anyway.

    She is permanent JUMPOFF for now. 12 years. Come on son.

    There’s no respect here. Its like “The black woman’s not good enough!”

    I don’t know why she doesn’t see it that way – but u know, women never do.

  • kd

    Would you be okay with dating a separated man like Doronin? YES. Some people aren’t looking for the piece of paper but the companionship. All parties are aware of each other and their roles – it does not have to be a dramatic situation but it must be an honest and mature one.

  • Erin

    Why don’t they just get a divorce? He could afford to give her a lofty divorce settlement, alimony, and child support. The whole situation makes no sense. They’ve been separated for 12 years, and his relationship with Naomi isn’t even his first long-term one after his wife. Sometimes you just have to let people that want to go go and let them go for good so you can find your own happiness with someone who actually wants to be with just you. Now, usually I would be totally against a woman dating a married man, and I probably couldn’t deal with it myself knowing that his wife is still looming in the background trying to wait it out or for other creepy reasons, but this situation with Naomi is completely ridiculous.

  • Joy n L.A.

    Exactly. I also tend to let people live their lives. They are rarely in the US, which is where most of the nah saying is coming from. Do you think Naomi cares what people think? I think not. This is why she’s living a life folks only dream about. I bet when they break up (if they break up) she’s taking those homes with her. She doesn’t seem like the “settle down, cook dinner for my man, and be a soccer mom” kinda girl anyway. Live and let live!

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “white men with that type of power and wealth are keeping their money WHITE! His legacy will go to his “white daughter” and his wealth will stay within the Russian circles of power”

    this simple truth seems to escape black people.
    it’s not about the sex it’s about the money. she will end up used and discarded. just ask the wife.

  • Pink Lipstick

    Negro bed wench? Seriously?

  • Apple

    Well at least Oprah is doing the same (keeping her money black)? Then again who she gone Leave the money to? Her dogs I guess?

  • Apple

    Naomi better hope it lasts because she may be aunt kitty and walk away with nothing . If he truly loved her it would be worth the struggle of a divorce . But this is probably just a good time and not a true love thing

  • Perspective

    Oprah will most likely donate her money to another black women who is on the rise and shares the same views as her.

    What I don’t get about Oprah – why promote this STRONG INDEPENDENT black woman thing – black matriarch stuff – and then on THE LOW – send 100 black men to college.

    Why promote – YOU GET A CAR, YOU GET A CAR.

    Rather than – to said brothas – YOU GET A SCHOLARSHIP, YOU GET A SCHOLARSHIP – as IF! we don’t have an issue in the black community with getting black men to that level. I just don’t get it.

  • Queenpatricia

    Wow! What a profound theory. I never thought of it like that. (I’m not being facetious either)

  • Starla

    I recently heard he had filed for divorce and was waiting for that to come through for him and Naomi to get married. Not sure what is true. This situation is too unique to even coment on.

  • Lady P

    Not for me, but I do believe Naomi doesn’t mind. As Perspective stated, the fortune won’t be transferred to her. but Naomi will not walk away empty handed. Whatever Naomi leaves with, it will suffice hopefully. If it doesn’t, she cannot do anything about it. He is a married man.

  • apple

    i heard this too…a year ago

  • apple

    i heard this too…a year ago

  • apple

    ughhh! this comment was to Starla

  • Pseudonym

    I, personally, wouldn’t do it,

    However I think the triangle of these three (Naomi, the boyfriend, the boyfriend’s wife) may be the result of older age and the jade of having gone through many failed relationships and they’ve reached a point where they’re over the romantic fairy tales of what their relationships were supposed to be and they’re just doing whatever’s getting them by and making them happy enough for now, for their own personal reasons. I get it. Since his wive is aware of his relationship, I’m less inclined to see it as a secret affair as much as it is a weird arrangement between the three. Like I said, I wouldn’t be that girlfriend/mistress and I wouldn’t be that wife, but I can see the jadedness that probably caused them to reach this point.

  • http://gravatar.com/beejcee beejcee

    ?

  • Perspective

    @ Queen – Oh it gets deep.

    When black women ask why black women aren’t valued – they often go to other things about the flawed character of black men.

    Really, what are black men passing on?

    White men, other races of men are the keepers and maintainers of their communities. They build, create, and maintain in order to pass it on to their children.

    Black men don’t do that –

    Now where I get into a disagreement with women is when I bring up the point that the black community is matriarchal or LESS patriarchal than other communities. Black women, as a rule, don’t really support the idea of patriarchy and as a result the idea of MEN passing on their legacies is OUT.

    With that said – Does a black woman have more value than any other race of woman when a black man is not passing anything on? NO she, unfortunately does not.

    White men have a vested interest in KEEPING IT WHITE, and maintaining their communities. Underneath a pseudo matriarchal structure black men do not and as a result black women have no more value than any other race of women. White men need white babies in order to maintain a white power structure. If you believe that there exist a white power structure then u have to believe that he is trying to MAINTAIN IT. How do you maintain it? You keep it WHITE!

    Too many black women believe that they should be valued by black men intrinsically or based on her original woman earth mother status. All that is BS – the TRUE value of a woman based on a patriarchal structure is based on the legacies that men are trying to pass on through women and their children. Without that – there is no sense in keeping it black because you don’t have an intact community associated with any black woman. There is no benefit to keeping it black. You don’t have much of a purpose as a man in the community sense. Women become nothing more than sex objects when men aren’t trying to build anything.

  • http://gravatar.com/beejcee beejcee

    Just like the “reluctantsocialite” I would like to know, does his wife have a boyfriend. If so, possibly the reason for the non-divorce is deeply rooted, maybe for the daughter’s sake. IJS!

  • http://gabandgraffiti.wordpress.com marloweovershakespeare

    No disrespect, but this a VERY unintelligible and thoughtless question. I can’t believe we’ve come this far in our treatment of matrimony that we have to ponder if breaking vows is really that bad. Too disheartened to say much more.

    And by the way, I’m 22, single and childless.

  • Perspective

    @ James I don’t think his wife was discarded – she served her purpose in a cut throat and ruthless manner by giving him a WHITE HEIR.

    His daughter ex wife and Naomi – WEIRD!
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vb3f86ZUtoY/TFxgVX7PDvI/AAAAAAAAF_8/S3IDr1kVl9c/s1600/katyadoronin.jpg

    SMH – at Childless Naomi!

  • https://twitter.com/TheKMichel K. Michel

    If it’s okay to date a married man, then it’s okay to date them all.

  • Jaslene

    Lol @ Cheesecake Factory.

  • hmmmmm

    Sure its okay, for so many reasons. The main one: She’s a companion. Not the keeper of his legacy. A Courtesan. Valued and cared for, I’m sure, even loved, but nothing more. She knows it and she’s cool with it. It’s a win for both of them. Sounds like the ideal arrangement for most men I know. Lucky dude.

  • __A

    @pink lipstick – That’s some other term they’ve come up with to paint BW as deceitful whores. Some man on YouTube has all these videos. I didn’t watch them, but from what I gathered he thinks BW are “basic females” who don’t know their place. I didn’t watch that video about the Negro bed wench, but I think it’s them saying that BW weren’t raped during slavery. They slept with the slave owners to get easier work while looking down their noses at black men and blah blah blah. They have too much time on their hands. But there’s probably no other group of men than these genX misogynists that is as creative with their misogyny, so they can take that for what it’s worth.

    @Perspective – This article is not about interracial dating. The majority of BW don’t know who Naomi Campbell dates. I just found out today reading this article that this man is her boyfriend and that he is still married. There are lots of BW dating men who won’t marry them who are black. No one fussed about Jay-Z not marrying Beyonce all those years. How many black male celebrities have actually gotten chewed out for not marrying a black woman they were dating? 

    Most of the time when women complain about black men not marrying black women they are talking about everyday guys. Let’s just be honest. When women date rich men and celebrities, sometimes they don’t care about a ring. It’s about money. They have fun. They jet set around the world. He buys her all kinds of expensive crap. I don’t think she really cares about that. But the average Joe ain’t doing that, so yea women expect you to get married. If Jay-Z and Beyonce were average people dating for years and years, a lot of people would have expected him to marry her. Basically rich men can get whatever women they want. Women overlook the lack of commitment because of all the trips, houses, gifts, and money. Yeah. People are going to fuss about you using a woman’s body for years and years especially when you’re broke and she’s been supportive. Call it materialistic and gold digging, but that is what it is.  

  • DrutooU

    it’s hard to agree that the question is “very unintelligible and thoughtless” when there are respondents who have answered .”yes.”

  • Rue

    @Perspective:
    Just a polite FYI: Oprah signed the Buffet Pledge.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “I’m 22, single and childless”

    get out there and find you a rich whitie…..

  • ArabellaMichaela

    I am definitely ok with this. Naomi looks actually happy. She deserves it. However, it probably is not going to end in marriage or forever after. Therefore, I hope Naomi is smart enough to get those homes/jewels/hard assets in her name so that when he eventually leaves, the assets stay with her.

  • Blaque217

    I have more of a problem with her dating a white man than a married man, but that’s a whole other topic. :-(

  • __A

    @Perspective – This loss of patriarchy and pseudo-matriarchy that you go on about is because black people don’t have two parent households. Black people can’t have communities like white people if black men don’t marry black women and then have children afterwards. I come from a traditional family. Women respect men because these men are worthy of respect. They think they have certain responsibilities as men and they do these things. It’s very hard to talk to about women submitting and bringing patriarchy back when you have to deal with people who see you as Negro bed wenches, females, b****s, and hoes. My male family members don’t say things like that. They don’t shirk responsibility. It is easy to respect that. 

    You all place all of the blame on BW, and BW are not blameless, but all of this let’s get back to patriarchy and independent women are horrible talk overlooks the fact that there are too many men that don’t have the same community building view that other men have. And it’s part of the reason why these other women behave differently not because of their lighter skin. They’ve been raised in a positive culture that teaches certain rules. If you’re talking about negative stereotypical African Americans, they don’t have this culture. And the men promote a culture that promotes materialism, ignorance, violence, misogyny, and deviant behavior. 

    Let’s just say you’re right about BW and matriarchy. You think BW are angry and whatever. As men, you all think that you should be the head of household and leaders of the community. But you can’t be these things when you don’t show up, and women who are not raised in a home where good morals and values are taught will not be nice, sweet, or feminine. They will spit on bus drivers because they weren’t taught better. And when you don’t show up to do these things, they will have to take them up. No? Let’s not pretend like BW are dying to be the head of household. Many of them seem desperate to get a man. 

    I’m basically saying you men can’t create this negative culture that is absorbed by everyone and expect it not to affect the way people behave. And you all are defining the culture. 

    And you do make the decisions. If men don’t like women with attitudes, stop dating them and giving them attention. All of you! If you don’t like oow children, start shaming women for having them. If you don’t like men who sag, steal, beat women, cheat women, encourage criminality and ignorance, make them a social outcast in the neighborhood. Other people have these positive cultures because the men shame certain people and promote patriarchy. White men don’t like fat women, so white women work out. White men don’t like attitudes. They don’t let their daughters get by with that behavior. They don’t chase after the “baddest chicks” the way a lot of BM do. 

     You all are defining the culture. It should be you all defining what is and isn’t acceptable for our culture. And you should be shaming the Lil Reeses of the world to fall in line. these types of men can’t be controlled. You say it’s our fault. I’m not going to play the victim. Black women make mistakes, but I think it’s very hard to get something traditional going when men shirk responsibility. And you just can’t blame that on women. You can’t say men don’t do what they’re supposed to do because of matriarchy. It’s just not a good enough excuse. If you’re so much smarter and more logical than women, then stop lying up and having babies with these women. Stop rewarding women who have attitudes and create a positive culture. 

    These men don’t build up their communities because it’s more fun to be selfish and do what you want to do. Why date a black woman who is an 8, when you can date a white woman who is a 9? Many white men would choose to date Kirsten Dunst over Megan Good. How many BM would date Naomie Harris over Kim Kardashian? Why settle down with one woman when you can go to the club and get a new woman when you get bored?Why marry your child’s mother when you know she can do it alone because of family and maybe even government assistance?

  • Perspective

    @ pink lipstick

    Negro Bed Wench is simply a term – such as House Negro – or Uncle Tom. It is meant to be negative.

    To say that House negros existed but Negro Bed Wenches didn’t, I think is intellectually dishonest.

    I guess you never saw the 1970′s movie “Mandingo”

    According to you Sally Hemmings, who was biracial by the way. Her mother was the true full black slave.

    Why do you think they have the term concubine

    “A concubine is a woman in an ongoing, marriage-like relationship with a man whom she cannot be married to for a specific reason.”

    If you think the ALOT, of black women didn’t know that she was with this BILLIONAIRE white man, I think you are off base.

    Did most know he was still married – probably not.

    Actually quite a number of black women chewed out Jay-Z for not wifing Beyonce – I don’t know where you get that from.

    Are we doing the black women making up stuff to tailor their points to an argument again? I do bore of that game.

    ” Let’s just be honest. When women date rich men and celebrities, sometimes they don’t care about a ring. It’s about money. They have fun.”

    So in other words, now it’s cool because he’s go bread?

    Look, as man when a black man disrespect a black woman on the DL – I take issue with that, especially when her and other women don’t see it. Like with what they did with this Mississippi home coming queen. White folks are laughing. I take issue with it just as much as white men take issue with black men disrespecting white women.

    People tend to let things slide when its “IN HOUSE” but the disparity between whites and blacks is so great that I can’t help but get annoyed when damn near everything whites do is COOL and black people will accept damn near anything just to be associated with them.

    I’ve seen both sides do this “oh we’ll let it slide” when they’re with someone white – like saying the N-word.

    G Paltrow – and then BM came out CAPING

    Then u have BW who cape for white men. Stedman is Oprah “B” but Gabrielle the underwear model was just Hailey’s sexy man. Stedman independent of Oprah is still a 10 million dollar dude.

    “Basically rich men can get whatever women they want.”

    I’ll keep that in mind the next time a black man does it.

    “People are going to fuss about you using a woman’s body for years and years especially when you’re broke and she’s been supportive.”

    I love how sistas default to the being with a broke dude “…but i supported you” SMH

  • Lanee

    *side eye* Uh ok.. Vlad is hot. In fact, I’m pretty sure he’d look good in just about any shade so why be mad that he’s white?

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    i was gonna say that but i wanted to avoid the beat down….

  • ArabellaMichaela

    Perspective;
    Yours is one of the most profound and rational observations I have ever read on this conundrum of why collectively speaking, black men, uniquely in the world and unlike all other men, do not value their own women. Your theory makes complete sense. They have no legacy to pass on So they can just as soon switch over, as stay with their own. Their only hope is to fight the entrenched power structure, or not. Fighting is tough. So, black men, maybe subconciously, choose to pass on as much “whiteness” to their offspring as they can (Darwin/evolutionary
    theory, etc.) with the hope hat whiteness will aid survival in this world. My feeling is, if Africa ever comes into its own, with all of the wealth that continent has, our African American men will have made the wrong bet.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “black men, uniquely in the world and unlike all other men, do not value their own women”

    with friends like this we don’t need no enemys….

  • Kay

    I think for most people who aren’t billionaires, this may not work. Most people have to invest serious time and money and doing that for something that isn’t permanent isn’t a good idea. When you’re a billionaire, you have the time, money and influence to do as you please. You don’t have to worry about the day-to-day grind so if you get with a woman who knows you’re just separated, she will most likely be better off with you than when she came into it. Especially if he is giving her a serious amount of money to play with. But it may not work if she is REALLY in love and wants to build a family of her own with a guy like him. He may be more worried about his bottom line. But hey, I let people do as they like. If they want to waste time with something that may not be permanent versus finding something that is, it’s their prerogative.

  • http://www.labelwhorre.com labelwhorre.com

    YES SHE DOES…..trust me, she will be walking away with if not half, more than half of his empire. although she could file for divorce and still take it…but theres something apparently preventing from that..not a law but maybe a reason and personal aspects that we the public are not aware of.

  • http://gravatar.com/thisismyoyster Valsays

    If they like? it I love it.

    The transfer of money discussion above is certainly food for thought, Although I disagree that black women let white men get away with more than they would with black men. A lot of black women put up with far more disrespectful situations (abuse, infidelity etc.) with a black man with way less to offer on any front. Only to see him off with a latina/asian/white woman who he ends up putting on a pedestal, Then we get called “haters” for saying anything about it.

  • Perspective

    @A

    You don’t read too well do you.

    “Black people can’t have communities like white people if black men don’t marry black women and then have children afterwards.”

    Yea – blame it on the black man. You must be new to clutch if you really think its all about what the black man is not doing. Finish the statement – “Black men (won’t) marry black women and then have children (on black women’s) matriarchal terms. That’s what sistas really mean when they say black men won’t marry us.

    “Women respect men because these men are worthy of respect. They think they have certain responsibilities as men and they do these things. ”

    Respect for black men should be based off of what a man can do for his family and community. THIS is directly tied to money, but many black women still continue to promote the idea that a black man CAN STILL BE A MAN – based on other things – because she REALLY DOESN’T want to be controlled by men who actually have the means (MONEY) to control her and its has gotten so bad these guys really belief that black women should submit or RESPECT THEM simply based on of their intrinsic nature as human beings/men. Black women have SIGNIFICANTLY helped in creating that problem. The other issue is that TOO MANY black women want men to be responsible from a subordinate position. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Many women want errand step and fetch boys, and when you call them out they say – NO WE WANT REAL MEN – and then try to REDEFINE what a real man is. Its always a man who controls – but doesn’t dominate, as they like to put it. How is it a woman is going to be on a man’s ship but think she’s going to steer the ship? As I stated – (most) black women DO NOT WANT PATRIARCHY.

    ” too many men that don’t have the same community building view that other men have.”

    Again and who raised these men. I hate that old one – but damn. Women talk as if they are community builders – ok fine – then why aren’t the sons coming out of your homes turning into being these men? We’re talking about nothing more than a mindset here, and many black men don’t have it being raised underneath female supervision.

    Agreed other races behave that way because they grow up in a different culture and that culture is patriarchal – a culture that black women DO NOT SUPPORT! You want the benefits of patriarchy without actually having one. Took me a long time to see this in black women – but eventually it came out when as soon as you talk about black men ACTUALLY LEADING black women FREAK OUT.

    Either we are going to move forward and have that community or we are not – but black women are not going to cry that there is no structure being built that they DO NOT SUPPORT out of fear of black men being in that type of position and having REAL POWER – not this MAN-STROKING that many black women do with calling broke black men KINGS just to have them in their favor.

    Do you see how you default to men not showing up, but never ask why women choose the type of men who DON’T SHOW UP. I’ll tell you why because many, not all, but many want control, and the best way to have control and not subscribe to patriarchy is to get with men who ARE NOT in the proper financial position to support a family. Women think this is cool up until something that she can’t handle arises then she hits the dude who she knew was not capable with MAN UP!

    Continuing.

  • __A

    No one made an uproar about Beyonce and Jay-Z dating forever. You honestly read too many of those IR blogs because a lot of BW don’t follow Naomi Campbell’s personal life like that. She’s a retired English supermodel who doesn’t live in the US and is barely in any gossip rags. She is not going to be followed as closely as someone like Beyonce or Nicki Minaj. If Nicki Minaj were sleeping around with some rich Russian married guy, people would know. Most didn’t know she was dating some Russian rich guy who was still married.

    BW are harsh on BM and let WM slide? As I said, that’s not the way I see it. You think BW are giving this man a pass whereas they flipped out about Jay-Z which they didn’t because you think we are all out here preaching that white men are the best, and that everyone needs to get a white man.

    Look these blogs exist, but the overwhelming majority of black women are not reading those blogs or dating interracially, so this whole BW are chasing after white men in droves and calling us evil is not really happening in the real world like that in huge numbers.

    Oprah and Stedmond….I have heard mostly black men make fun of Stedmond for making less money than Oprah. They think he is less of a man even though he has a lot of money.

  • Perspective

    @ A

    “No? Let’s not pretend like BW are dying to be the head of household. Many of them seem desperate to get a man. ”

    Actually to the contrary. Many would prefer to be alone rather than be subordinate to black men.

    I admit that black men haven’t done many thing and were fooled into believing that “WE AMERICANS TOO” and join white folks system when we were just dependent on their jobs in order to have the little bit of patriarchy that existed in the 1920s until about the late 60′s when all those factory jobs left and drugs came in.

    You really believe that after 40 years of not having black male leadership and not seeing any benefit to it that black women are just going to say – “hey these black men of the last 20-30 years are different” No, its been promoted to black women that they are the MATRIARCHS. What I would like to know is where black women are talking us. Seems to me they have the same problem as black men – they are dependent on white men for their jobs.

    Have you seen any black women walking around with hard hats in the black community going off to build the next desperately needed supermarket.

    Do you see black women out side – cutting down trees, pumping water out of basements, and reestablishing power grids. I think not! Black women have clearly demonstrated in all their excellence that they really don’t know how to maintain a community in the ABSENCE of black men – that’s for damn sure.

    And when you charge them to it – the claim is – “WELL WE CAN’T DO IT BY OURSELVES” when the battle cry has been for so long – that they didn’t need BLACK MEN – so which one is it?

    ” I’m basically saying you men can’t create this negative culture that is absorbed by everyone and expect it not to affect the way people behave.”

    THIS CULTURE IS NOT CREATED! – it is a by product of the lack of patriarchy that exist in the black community that black women – PERPETUATE.

    Women will say dumb stuff like a man’s money doesn’t matter as long as he has Christ in his heart or SWAG

    Then when we get to REPAIRS and other things that require money in the community you come to find out these brothas ain’t got it. BW didn’t start it – but they DAMN SURE keep it going, then have the nerve to complain about the outcome.

    When you have women who AVOID – men who surpass them in performance because the women want control – WHAT ARE THE SONS GOING TO LEARN FROM THE FATHER – even if the man is present – NOTHING!

    continuing

  • https://twitter.com/TheKMichel K. Michel

    “*side eye* Uh ok.. Vlad is hot. In fact, I’m pretty sure he’d look good in just about any shade so why be mad that he’s white?”

    That’s your opinion and she happens to not share it. No need for “side eyes”.

  • Perspective

    Wow AWWWW man – I’m going to have to knock this one out the park

    @ A

    “you all are defining the culture.
    And you do make the decisions. If men don’t like women with attitudes, stop dating them and giving them attention. All of you! If you don’t like oow children, start shaming women for having them. If you don’t like men who sag, steal, beat women, cheat women, encourage criminality and ignorance, make them a social outcast in the neighborhood”

    You tell me how black men define the culture when most are raised by women – and women have custody of the children and raise them to matriarchal specifications.

    How are men making any decisions that affect black women when again – THE WOMAN AND THE CHILD has become the family and many really don’t want to man PRESENT – not if he’s going to assert himself as the head – going back to OTHER PATRIARCHIES that you admire for their regimented responsibility – BUT NOT THE LEADERSHIP that comes along with being responsible.

    Please break down for me – how someone is supposed to be responsible for that which they have no control over. Picture being a boss who is responsible but yet your employees say you can’t tell them what to do. Picture a general and his troops. This is the BS that black men get hit with – women do whatever, and then when SHTF – they blame it on men for not being there. If you don’t want to be controlled – as women say – the clearly women ARE INDEED making their own decisions. Please tell me what it is that a black man or a group of black men can stop any black woman from doing. I didn’t know there was a blockade of black men standing outside your home.

    The men with SENSE are not dealing with those women – HENCE THEY COMPLAINTS about all the good brothas being with white women and non-black women

    next…

    Shaming women?! Yea and not have the sisterhood of black women jump up and DEFEND THEM – because black women have same group PREFERENCE. Let me do that I’m black woman bashing and it would still come back to black men who got the women pregnant as if the woman didn’t participate in that – it was just Black men jumping out of bushes splashing women with their man juice – getting them pregnant.

    SURPRISE!!!!!

    encourage other men – yea – to be the very men that black women avoid and aren’t checking for. See women like you never want to address that. Outcast in the neighborhood – you say that as if the black community is INTACT and the progressive black men currently out number the ray rays and pookies. Actually its the other way around. The established and legitimate brothas are NOW THE OUTCAST – and that damn sure ain’t stopping black women from having babies with RAY RAY.

    Patriarchy has to be support by women when men establish proper foundation – it doesn’t just exist because men establish it. I keep trying to tell you – many black women don’t care HOW ESTABLISHED a black man is they see him as a man who isn’t about to get with her program nor is about to let her run what he put together. They want ON POINT SIMPS.

    continuing

  • __A

    @Perspective – Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blame the mothers. I said in my comment that BW are a part of the problem. Many of them choose bad men, but you can’t just say that there are so many bad men because their mothers didn’t raise them right. As I said, for a lot of them, they do what they do because it’s more fun to be selfish. I have admitted that these types of BW are part of the problem. You cannot bring yourself to say that these types of men are selfish. For black families to get back to any kind of stability, it will involve both parties doing better. Men laying blame on their mothers is like women blaming their noninvolved child’s father for the bad behavior of the child. You don’t like when BW choose bad men and make excuses? That’s fine. I don’t either, but I don’t like the excuse of these men weren’t raised to know how to be responsible.

    You are talking about money? And what are women supposed to do? Just sit around their parents’ house until a man wants to marry her? The majority of BW don’t have college degrees, and BM make more money than BW on average.

  • Perspective

    @ A

    “Black women make mistakes, but I think it’s very hard to get something traditional going when men shirk responsibility.”

    I feel like you are trivializing what black women do – MUCH OF THIS IS NOT A MISTAKE it is INTENTIONAL.

    A woman point blank told me “I didn’t want a man who could out think me.”

    I think you need to go check out LipstickAlley and peep the blogs over there.

    If a woman doesn’t want to be controlled her best bet is to get with a man who is less established and dependent on her.

    Some of these guys think they’re going to GAME the woman out of her money.

    Please go over there on Macklessons and check Tariq’s latest video – and you will see what I’m talking about. This is what happens when women try to keep men NOT FOCUSED on money because they really don’t want black men to have that type of power because they don’t want a true patriarchal community. They want the perks – but not all that REAL MANHOOD STUFF.

    I call it PEDESTAL OPPRESSION. White women get to be on the pedestal – as sistas cry – but are oppressed at the same time. HOW DOES THAT WORK?! You can’t have it both ways.

    Men are going to continue to shirk the responsibility when that’s all it is RESPONSIBILITY. There isn’t a positive male responsibility attached to it. There is no admiration from women or women who will respect and admire men who are doing all these things that need to be done not just in the home, but in the overall community as well.

    What women want is JUST RESPONSIBILITY – Errand boys, and think that blessing him with the cookie every once in a while is enough. Cookies are NOT ENOUGH to push men to go out here and go above an beyond to put a black man on the moon and everything that falls beneath that – You need a full blown patriarchy in order for that to happen.

    I can see after this statement you revert to a Pookie argument. The men created by a matriarchal structure getting with matriarchal women and acting a damn food. As I said that is a consequence of matriarchal structure

    “You can’t say men don’t do what they’re supposed to do because of matriarchy.”

    I’m not saying that at all – I’m saying that you can’t EXPECT black men to do the same things that PATRIARCHAL men do IN A MATRIARCHY.

    “These men don’t build up their communities because it’s more fun to be selfish and do what you want to do. ”

    At this point YES I agree with that because there is no COMMUNITY at this point. Its just black people existing in a place. A community has social benefits to it – as the white community or the Jewish community does. If there is a black community please list off the social benefits of being associated with the NOW MATRIARCHAL BLACK COMMUNITY. I’ll wait…

    “Many white men would choose to date Kirsten Dunst over Megan Good. ”

    Going back to my original point – white men are maintaining a patriarchal community – BLACK MEN have no such deal. There is an understanding with white women that has never really been broken among them. When a black man is not building, and there is no SOCIAL STRUCTURE that exist “black community” and he’s trying to maintain it and preserve it because his black children are to be apart of it, and expound upon its existence, then IT DOESN’T MATTER WHERE HE PUTS HIS SEED. That black woman at that point, unfortunately, has not more value to him than any other race of woman.

    Anything other than a patriarchal structure puts black women’s value in the gutter by DEFAULT!

  • Perspective

    @A

    I gotta go – will check out ur comments later on – but wanted to say this in response to RESPONSIBILITY

    ” I don’t either, but I don’t like the excuse of these men weren’t raised to know how to be responsible.”

    Even if a woman teaches a boy responsibility – she can’t teach him leadership.

    Women think they can – but they don’t realize that what their boys are witnessing is FEMALE LEADERSHIP and the boys become very comfortable with the idea of women being in position of power and authority. With that said they expect women to be able to do things that are MEN’S responsibilities.

    Just like seeing superman jump a tall building in a single bound – seeing SUPER BLACK WOMEN handling EVERYTHING isn’t amazing either. That’s the drawback – these slogans women throw around themselves to try and prove their GREATNESS often puts them in this asexual realm. Its as if a sista can only be a video chick or a asexual BIG MAMA – strong independent that no one wants to get with.

    The other thing is – the issue with responsibility is that women keep believing that men are going to be responsible for things that they don’t control, and it just doesn’t work. I agree a man should be responsible for his own children but what’s to be expected from a man who NEVER DEMONSTRATED IT – as you said in your second post.

    Women want responsibility from a subordinate position devoid of leadership – THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

    If black women want black men to take on full responsibility they have to give black men full control – ENOUGH with the “oh ur a black man I don’t have faith in you, so I’m going to keep my hand on the steering wheel” Brothas have a lot to work on – but black women have to LET GO of all this being in control stuff and then expecting black men to be step and fetch types.

    Responsible IN HER HOUSE?!
    Responsible FOR HER KIDS!?
    Responsible FOR A COMMUNITY RUN BY WOMEN?!
    Responsible – BUT WHEN A WOMAN FINDS OUT THAT YOU ARE IN A ACTUALLY IN A POSITION TO HAVE ALL THINGS COVERED THEY FLEE LIKE THE PLAGUE – because they fear you trying to dominate and control things?

    How many non-black women do you see RUNNING away from six figure men out of fear of being controlled. Not saying they don’t exist – but it ain’t no where near the amount of BW.

  • Perspective

    @ Rue

    Thanks – didn’t know that

  • Perspective

    “There isn’t a positive male responsibility attached to it.”

    Should read

    POSITIVE MALE IDENITY

  • victoria

    @Perspective

    So what about billionaire Peter Norton of Norton Antivirus who is married with children to a black woman? Does he not want to pass down his legacy? Or how about Edgar Bronfman, Jr (worth 2.5 billion) is he not going to pass his legacy to his 3 kids by his former black wife? Let’s not forget Priness Angela of Liechtenstein (black woman) who married into one of the richest royal families in the world. She has a son with her white husband. Or my favorite, Mick Jagger, what about his daughter by his black baby mama? Wolfgang Puck? South Park creator, Matt Stone? Billionaire Marc Ekco?

  • victoria

    @Perspective

    So what about billionaire Peter Norton of Norton Antivirus who is married with children to a black woman? Does he not want to pass down his legacy? Or how about Edgar Bronfman, Jr (worth 2.5 billion) is he not going to pass his legacy to his 3 kids by his former black wife? Let’s not forget Priness Angela of Liechtenstein (black woman) who married into one of the richest royal families in the world. She has a son with her white husband. Or my favorite, Mick Jagger, what about his daughter by his black baby mama? Wolfgang Puck? South Park creator, Matt Stone? Billionaire Marc Ekco?

  • Anthony

    Wow! I had no idea so many sisters have hit the jackpot with rich white husbands. I can’t knock any woman for marrying a billionaire!

    As for Naomi Campbell, she is a beautiful woman and all time great model, however, she is not much of a role model for personal behavior.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “Vlad is hot”

    if you are into Neanderthals…..

  • Perspective

    @ Victoria – I guess you didn’t see the

    (AS A RULE)

    Sure you are going to (some) white men who are rich not care about LEGACIES in this manner. That is NOT to say that most other white men don’t care. The black woman an the white man is the least likely couple out there – but I don’t say that as some put down to black women. My point is the white power structure is so solid that a few white men diving out isn’t going to hurt the white community. How many white MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES do they have.

    When millionaire black men leave it hurts.

    The other thing is when blacks get with whites who are rich or they are rich themselves – THEY AREN’T LIVING IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

    Out of all the men you named – how many are doing anything IN OR FOR THE BLACK COMMUNITY – point and case.

    The women they got with have JOINED them and are being incorporated into the white community and their children as BEST THEY CAN.

    If you think they are being raised to see themselves as black or associate with black people that are in the financial abyss compared to them you got another thing coming.

    I really get tired of black women who take the slightest glimmer of white male interest as a sign that RACISM IS OVER – and in 3 generations the black community will equal out with the white community – what because 5 rich white men scooped up a black woman?!

    FOR REAL!?

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    please let us know when there is any transfer of wealth from a white to a black women…..

  • Perspective

    Yea more stereotypes again.

    Where do you get this crap from. I swear. The lowly black women who supports a guy and get left for a white women.

    Ya’ll will never admit that women position themselves to be DEPENDED ON only to make the claim of LOYALTY the minute the dude looks elsewhere because she wanted control – at the end of the day.

  • Perspective

    No James – I don’t even need to take it there. Please let me know when ANY OF THIS MONEY trickles down into the black community.

    These biracial kids will most likely marry white – and the money still stays in the white community. They’re not even gonna be living in the black community.

    Rich white men can say – screw other white men – but at the end of the day, they’re kids WILL NOT be apart of the white circles of power based on – WHITENESS – they might be able to see what’s going on because of the money of their father, but once that’s gone if they manage it right – they are out.

    How many BIRACIAL Waltons do we know of?

    How many Biracial Romney’s Do we know of?

    White father – black mother – and the kids are the heirs to some DYNASTY.

    Like I said – they can talk that – “oh but look at this interracial couple over here stuff all day”

    FOLLOW THE MONEY – it ain’t coming back to the black community.

  • simplyme

    Naomi has her own money and success. She’s frolicking the world with a Russian billionaire who adores her and looks like he could be a model himself… Survey says 99.999% of the women on this planet would call that winning.

  • Perspective

    Thank you for your kind words, but I don’t think it has to do with whiteness or subconscious anything.

    Most black men still choose and prefer black women – it’s just not ATTACHED to building, legacies, or an overall association with a community.

    THAT IS A PROBLEM. Basically there is nothing keeping black men in the community.

    Example – a white man has to think twice about leaving the race. He might be cut off, he might find himself excluded from circles of power, opportunities might be denied, his kids would be excluded.

    White men in power can REGULATE and scare their kids out of not leaving the group by pulling back on the resources that they control.

    Since the black men that came before the black men of today have little to nothing. If i get with a white woman – what black man is going to deny me AN ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY?

    You see this is what happens when u don’t have a patriarchal structure, things fall apart from their foundation and then everyone tries to keep it together with IDEALS OF RACE LOYALTY and magic – People are not that altruistic – nor do they look at RACE LIKE THAT even within their own group.

    What people think is racial loyalty is based on WHAT THEIR GROUP PROVIDES FOR THEM – what is the social benefit

    If there is not social benefit you are going to have a hard time keeping people WANTING to be apart of the group and stay in the group or see any value in the group.

    Black women are not attached to an intact patriarchy. With black men not passing anything on – they have no more value than a black man who marries out but is still not building. Black men who marry out aren’t forming BROWN communities – they are joining whites. Same with black women.

    Without a community the value that black people have for each other exist in a vacuum and that bond is not STRONG – no other group has that problem. Getting together has both social, economical, and (cultural/racial) benefits.

    Black Americans – NOT SO MUCH IF AT ALL.

  • Joy

    james: UR soooo stuck in the 40s, and 50s

  • Perspective

    I don’t know where my comment went.

    I basically said – its’ not about whiteness

    Its about the fact that there is no patriarchal community. With no men passing on legacies not only does that black women have no more value than any other race of woman nothing is being built by men.

    That means no opportunities.

    No intact community.

    There is nothing preventing any black person from leaving the black community because there are no social benefits to keeping it black unlike in other communities where there is a benefit to keeping it white.

    White men have to considered leaving and the COST – of being cut off.

    Black men – please that’s a joke – Who’s going to deny me opportunities or cut me out of circles of power – now ones.

    There is nothing gained by staying or lost by leaving – that is MEASURABLE, rather than spiritual or cultural.

  • Joy

    I’m not saying I’m condoning this (people are free to do whatever floats their boat); but lots of people are referring to money. Naomi’s current net worth is listed as 48 Mil. That’s not near a billion dollars; but she won’t be in any soup lines anytime soon. My point is that it’s not always about the money; love definitely comes into play.

  • Rue

    ‘Out of all the men you named – how many are doing anything IN OR FOR THE BLACK COMMUNITY’
    w
    WTF!!! They are not obligated to the black community, WE are.

  • NewLook

    I mad Naomi Campbell’s relationship is getting more attention than…you know…the ELECTION that’s in 6 days!!! Her love life has nothing to do with us and has no effect on the black community…or any community really.
    Please register to vote if have not already (I have no idea when the cut off is). They’re hoping that we waste time reading this article instead of learning about the REAL issues at hand…that you know affect us all!
    PLEASE REGISTER TO VOTE.

  • Fantastico

    Why?

  • NewLook

    Wow…I just put a reminder for everyone to vote and it got blocked. SMH.. I guess Naomi is more important than Obama after all.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    i’m stuck with black people. i love my people.
    if you laying with a white man you may not understand .

  • Rue

    I think we need to chill. At the end of the day, she is an adult and she is conscious of black history and racism. And if she is happy with her situation, then What can us mere mortals do?

  • GeekMommaRants

    Europeans are NOT Americans. Their idea of marriage is not as naive as the American definition of marriage. So, it’s not fair to judge others by our standards since they have their own.

  • Fantastico

    @ Blaque217 Why do you have more of a problem with her boyfriend being white, than with him being married?

  • http://clutchmagazine blcknnblv

    White men love themselves some Asian girls

  • http://gabandgraffiti.wordpress.com marloweovershakespeare

    Sure you can disagree, if you’re focused solely the semantics of my response. By all means, go ahead. I’m more concerned with how we have devalued marriage.

  • http://britnidanielle.com/ Britni Danielle

    Hello–

    It didn’t get blocked, comments go into moderation all the time for whatever reason. If you comment doesn’t show up right away, be patient. The system requires we approve it manually.

    Of course we condone voting. We’ve run several articles on politics thus far.

    Thanks for reading.

  • Perspective

    @ Rue – you miss the point.

    Victoria made the claim that “all these white men” basically don’t care about where their legacies go – as if MONEY is exchanging hands between blacks and whites because a handful of black women are with a handful of rich white men.

    No one said they are obligated to do anything in the black community. I agree that is OUR obligation – NOT THE POINT –

    The point is that money does not return to the black community WHEN ANY BLACK PERSON MARRIES OUT – especially WHITE – it stays in the white community REGARDLESS.

    Even brothas kill me with this – like they’re bringing Becky back to the hood – get real!

    95% of the time Becky is getting with them because Becky is adding his (as best she can) to her world.

    This is why Becky’s gravitate towards Carltons as opposed to Deandres. They’ll sleep with Deandre – but they are not brining then home. They have to find an acceptable negro.

    And the byproducts the biracial children will be assimilated into the white group, like a Solieodad Obrien.

    Have u seen her kids – you can only vaguely tell they have black blood – Let those kids get with someone white – U’D NEVER be able to tell.

    All things said – that money STAYED IN THE WHITE COMMUNITY. It did not exchange hands.

    That’s y that one drop rule stuff kills me. White men created that in order to EXCLUDE their mixed children from inheritance. Black people embrace it and now u have black folks running around talking about 1 drop rule half asian and black my kids still asian – then their mixed kid marries white – NEVER TO BE SEE FROM AGAIN BY THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

    Other communities don’t play that mess. Black people just hemorrhage resources all over the place. While everyone else tries to keep it 90-100% THEIR GROUP – black people are like “ONE DROP RULE!”

  • Rue

    Here we go again…..

  • Kenzy

    well I think it is really dependent on the situation. I know it sounds crazy but my situation i am still legally married and have been trying to get divorced for over a year now (long whole other story why that hasnt happened) but i have NOT seen nor spoken to my legal husband in over a year now. I do not even know where he is or how to contact him. Not to mention we were separated (still in contact) prior to final last contact last year. The matter hasnt come up as other things have prevented me from dating but I would date and I am sure whereever he is, he is dating. Some divorces take a while and overall, my opinion is that I dont feel like lives should be placed on hold waiting for some paperwork to go through.

  • victoria

    @Perspective

    You’re questioning what a wealthy white man is doing for the black community. What is the average black man doing for the black community? Are many black men starting businesses, working to reduce crime, volunteering with black youths? Until I see a significant number of black men correcting the ills of our community, I will not think of expecting a white man to do it.

    And yes, black women /white men couples are not in large numbers, but we are getting up there. And our marriages tend to outlast ww/wm, bm/bw, and ww/bm. That says a lot especially since black women are so ”un-lovable” like so many male commentors tend to mention over and over and over again. Give a 10 paragraph perspective about why men who are non black want to provide safe homes; provide for our kids; build a future with the ”ratchet” black girl. So before you try to down grade marriages like mine (trust me, our husband didnt just scoop us up) take notes on why our marriages are lasting.

  • Londoner

    I think many of the responses thus far betray a very Puritanical North American concept of marriage and also of race /sex relations.

    The conversations about transfer of wealth and a supposed reluctance to transfer wealth from white men to black women is a particular condition of the history of the USA. Russia was not involved in the slave trade / Jim Crow etc. This is not their history. Dude isn’t loosing any kudos in his home culture for being with Naomi, quite the opposite. Russians love famous people, and Naomi is one of the most famous and celebrated beauties in the world. Being with her allows him to gain kudos, and is also a great boon for his business as a high end property developer. This couple are prized assets in the Russian / European social scene.

    It is worth considering what happened in Russia in the move from Communism to Capitalism, and the types of dealings the men (and they are mostly men) who became super rich, super fast were involved with. The wives of these men have detailed, first hand knowledge of what went on, so divorcing them is not easy if they want to stay married. Many want to stay married to these men as it is the only way to maintain status. (They do not go quietly or cheaply, and they know where all the metaphorical bodies are buried.) Doronin’s wife lacks Naomi’s beauty, profile and desireablity. None of these Russian billionaires will be rushing to marry her once she is divorced. They will go for a younger or more glamourous woman. So it may be ‘cheaper to keep her’ – or to divorce at her pace – and not just financially. This kind of situation is quite common amongst the Russian nouveau riche.

    Secondly, the story going round in Europe is that the wife wants to achieve the security of UK citizenship before the divorce (Russians do not have the freedom of movement within Europe that EU citizens have.) She lives in London, and wants to stay.

    Either way, this isn’t some plantation fantasy business. The man has been separated for over a decade. He had a 7 year relationship with another women before he met Naomi. He and his wife are not together in any meaningful way. There is not the same tendency to see marriage in religious terms or as some kind of Disney fantasy over here. It can be a business arrangement (which is how marriage was originally conceived) or a friendship that changes over time. There is little to no shame in divorce / separation outside of strict Catholic / Orthodox communities. If he wife is waiting on citizenship, it is to Doronin’s credit that he is not forcing a divorce. Just because he is not longer with her, doesn’t mean he has to be a complete bastard to her. In the meantime he and Naomi get on with their life together… I doubt they give a damn about what misinformed people across the Atlantic, or anywhere else, have to say about anything.

  • victoria

    @Perspective

    You stated to Rue…
    ”Victoria made the claim that “all these white men” basically don’t care about where their legacies go – as if MONEY is exchanging hands between blacks and whites because a handful of black women are with a handful of rich white men. ”

    No. Victoria was just getting on you about a previous statement that you made concerning wealthy white men not being interested in passing down their legacy through black blood. I was simply pointing out that there are some wealthy white men who have done exactly that. You know exactly what I meant. The fact the you tried to deflect my comment by typing a novel about what the white man has to do for our community just demonstrates how you got loss for words.

  • Pseudonym

    Girl, trust Naomi isn’t spending any of her money right now. If they broke up tomorrow, she will be financially a’rite.

    (Just keep an eye on that coke habit.)

  • http://ellemk.wordpress.com LorriK

    I’m not comfy with dating a married man because he doesn’t “belong” to me and he has no loyalty towards me. I’m renting him or he might be renting me until he goes back to his residence.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    ‘O’ enlightened one……does the money ever transfer into the black community?

  • Downsouth Transplant

    @ Starla, my gal had a similar situation & she handled it pretty well at the time, went by the court house got the divorce papers (in-case they were all tied up or something like that, you know the excuses that come up), had him sign mailed to Wifey with signature receipt, guess what, she got them back in the mail with a long long letter on child support demands which he gladly agreed to, with a phone call & letter, my gal even filed for them back in court, she was not gonna have an aunt Kitty going on for her, after she met his fam, been introduced as his gal to everyone of his boys etc. They are now officially done but are friendly all around, vacation together kind of friendly.

  • https://twitter.com/TheKMichel K. Michel

    You’re both saying the same thing, really.

    A lot of women will excuse a married man of his transgressions as long as he has the money to pay his mistress (which is what Naomi is at this point of her relationship) and his wife quietly approves.

    The thing is, though, that a lot of the people answering are emotionally tied to the couple for a number of reasons. Some women are actually vicariously living through Campbell and so of course, they’ll permit Doronin his extramarital relationship with her.

    But what if Campbell was the wife, and his current wife …the mistress? Then, these same people would have different answers.

    So I guess the question itself doesn’t really matter. Anything is “okay” as long as you get enough people to justify it.

  • https://twitter.com/TheKMichel K. Michel

    James, you’re not stuck with Black people. You can choose which ones to like, love, support and protect. Give yourself to those who actually deserve your time and all that jazz.

  • Perspective

    OMG – BLACK WOMEN LOGIC IS FOR #hit

    “No. Victoria was just getting on you about a previous statement that you made concerning wealthy white men not being interested in passing down their legacy through black blood. I was simply pointing out that there are some wealthy white men who have done exactly that. You know exactly what I meant. The fact the you tried to deflect my comment by typing a novel about what the white man has to do for our community just demonstrates how you got loss for words.”

    AGAIN! – These men are NOT passing on their legacies THROUGH BLACK BLOOD as if that money was going to go to the black community – as if – the white man is JOINING THE BLACK COMMUNITY. Any black woman who get with a white man THAT ESTABLISHED is getting with his ship and his program period – she is joining his community.

    If you want to take all but 5 white men and paint them as the poster children for millionaire white men FLOCKING to black women AS IF this is the sign that black women and white men IR dating flood gates about about to open GO RIGHT AHEAD – I don’t have the patience to deal with such stupidity and closed minded thinking – asking from the fact that NO IR DATING is a solution for the community it is simply an INDIVIDUAL solution.

    Another DENSE HEADED COMMENT!

    “You’re questioning what a wealthy white man is doing for the black community. What is the average black man doing for the black community? Are many black men starting businesses, working to reduce crime, volunteering with black youths? Until I see a significant number of black men correcting the ills of our community, I will not think of expecting a white man to do it.”

    Go back to my previous statements about the black community NOT being patriarchal and black women wanting black men to take on RESPONSIBILITIES defined underneath patriarchies but from a subordinate position. Black women REFUSE to acknowledge the fact that they aren’t down with patriarchy yet want the SAME EXACT BENEFITS AS ONE.

    Also, the point about what white man and his black woman is doing in the black community – was to further HIGHLIGHT that SHE IS JOINING “HIS” community or his ISLAND isolated from other white men who will disapprove. They are NOT coming into the black community establishing their foundation. They are cherry picking and BOUNCING back to their own communities.

    NONE of this will change the black community and I think it’s a complete disservice to talk about the very small handful of white men who like a particular black woman and then promote that as “WHITE MEN WANT US!”

    I have no time for RAINBOW COALITION sistas. Delusional as they come.

  • Perspective

    Don’t say that here the RAINBOW COALITION with their interracial dream will flag your comment into oblivion

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    Basically! As my mom always said NEVER part your legs/heart for a married/seperated man because it is emotional Russian Roulette because no matter what you are going to get the bullet sooner or later because the person is never yours to claim. Personally I don’t know their situation (and it’s a strange one) but at the end of the day both women are still sharing this man whether they want too or not…

  • Perspective

    ” And our marriages tend to outlast ww/wm, bm/bw, and ww/bm. That says a lot especially since black women are so ”un-lovable” like so many male commentors tend to mention over and over and over again.”

    This was kill me, because it only exposes the issue of SOME BLACK WOMEN especially the fence jumpers.

    Now why would black women with white men marriage last longer than even WHITE MEN WITH WHITE WOMEN

    let me guess, because black women and white man have so much more in common than wm and ww? Think about that one for a second. let that one soak in for a second.

    is it because their LOVE is more GENUINE.

    He’s white and she’s white – and yet even black women and white men have a lower divorce rate! They were made for each other right?

    NO, I’ll tell you the real reason as was EXPOSED when that black woman married to the white man called Dr. Laura and got told not to NAACP her – Many black women are so desperate for a white man and WHITE VALIDATION AND THAT WHITE STAMP OF APPROVAL – going back to a point I made earlier – that they will PUT UP with a lot of stuff in order to keep the relationship going – give white men a pass. Go listen to that Dr. Laura vid again, or Tariq’s Negro Bed Wench Clip on Utube.

    Sistas ain’t about the leave no white man.

    Did you know that WOMEN – not men INITIATE 80% of all divorces? So ask yourself why it isn’t black women initiating the divorces with white men. Oh, because white men are just so great.

    That’s funny because the white women with much higher divorce races don’t seem to think so.

    Keep in mind that the white woman IS HER BROTHERS KEEPER.

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  • LemonNLime

    Who is this “black community” you are talking about? Seriously, what does that have to do with anything? Does Naomi’s money currently go to this mythical “black community”?Why would they owe this “communit” anything? Rather than trying to get her or his money, maybe the “black community” should worry about their own wealth instead others.

  • Overlooked

    In the words of Michael Kyle, “ehh…..no!” (My Wife and Kids)

  • justanotheropinion

    Is it ever OK to date someone (man or woman) that is married? NO. Have some self respect and find someone else. Period.

    Whatever ‘their’ situation is, it belongs to them – don’t get involved. If it was REALLY over (feelings, finances, emotions, issues, back room deals etc.), then they would be divorced. Since they aren’t, the other person has some unfinished business. Remember: if they TRULY wanted to be free, they would be.

  • ArabellaMichaela

    Perspective:
    Apparently I am the only one on this thread, but I truly GET what you are saying. It is compelling. Your views encourage an analysis of this potentially “genocidal” black male/female antagonism, from a “perspective” of intellect and logic, rather than anger and pain.
    If you have written/published on this subject, I hope to come accross it because I find this subject fascinating, empirically and personally.

  • http://gravatar.com/g2-5bad1203f6a970f65345273e8eff5cd2 jazzyphile

    She has been described as the “patron saint of side chicks”,

  • ArabellaMichaela

    Londoner:
    Thank you, for adding that clarity. I must say, I am pleasantly surprised at the readership!

  • Londoner

    If you mean is the money going to individual people who are black – why wouldn’t it? Is Boris Becker’s money going to his wife, ex-wife and children? Yes, of course. Is David Bowie’s money going to his wife and children? Of course. Are Princess Angela of Lichtenstein and her son getting the same titles financial benefits as other royals of the House of Lichtenstein? Sure, why wouldn’t they? Who is one of the most significant supporters of work made by black artists in the world? Peter Norton, who is now married his 2nd black wife. Their collection has an entire wing of Tate Modern devoted to it. What an asinine comment. Most men in significant relationships support their offspring and partners, black or white.

    Fact is – Naomi doesn’t need this man to giver her anything, despite the fact that he keeps buying her houses and what not. She is the one who financially supported the ANC through her earnings from her modeling empire. She also supports various Black causes in the UK, publicly and privately. Seriously – what’s your point?

  • Perspective

    Yup!

  • OSHH

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.travelologie.blogspot.com K. Robinson

    I had no clue that Naomi’s man was married… here I was supporting their beautiful relationship. On one hand, do what you do – if it works for them, great! On the other hand, I personally couldn’t do it. I’m too proud to be the sidechick intentionally.

  • Cocochanel31

    Everything is always okay until it is YOUR husband that is stepping outside of the marriage smh

  • http://gabandgraffiti.wordpress.com MarloweOverShakespeare

    I’m taking a stand here to NOT justify this type of behavior. Because it is definitely NOT “okay.” I don’t know where Dru stands, if we are saying the “same thing.”

  • edub

    I agree with you both as well.

  • Candigirl

    My understanding is that it is pretty easy to get divorces in Russia, and that the divorce rate is pretty high. Interestingly, the child support laws are very pro-child. If you’ve got several children, you may pay half of your salary in support. So, he may have made the economic decision to stay married. It also may be that the wife has better societal standing as the wife of a billionaire than as his divorcee. So, she may prefer the arrangement to divorce.

    That being said, it doesn’t appear that Naomi thinks she’s marrying this guy (or even wants to, for that matter). Given that she is a 42 year old, very wealthy woman, it’s not like she wants this man for anything other than fabulous fun and companionship. If this guy treats her well, and everyone is above board – and on board – who is to judge?

  • http://clutch 40 and fabulous

    I am separated from my husband almost 5yrs now . Your right it’s messy. He has never asked me for a divorce we have both been living separate lives. I Will be seeking a divorce because I don’t feel right dating and im still married to someone i left in the first place. Holding on at first because I was afraid to be single but im over that fear its time to move on! just saying!!!

  • Blue

    And you think it’s wise to follow the foot steps of someone who thinks it’s okay to throw cell phones at working people?

  • K

    Perspective, I have been reading a lot of your comments. I have thought about your comments and a lot of them make sense, and I have thought along similar lines myself in my own evaluations of the social reality I must navigate as a black woman. Personally, I support communities that are led by men and nurtured by women. I would like to have a husband to lead me and my household. I would like to meet a man who has his stuff together and wants to bring a woman on his ship to contribute to the voyage. I am also a Christian so I know what my beliefs command of male/female relationships. One of these commandments is for wives to submit to their husbands, and for husbands to take care of their wives. I am fine with this, and in fact I want this. There is a correct way to do this and it does not involve blind reverence or toleration on the woman’s part nor mistreatment/abuse/tyranny/oppression on the man’s part.

    My problem is that I have yet to meet a man/black man who has really risen to this occasion. The one relationship I had with a BM who wanted to pursue this arrangement kept delaying marriage and it is 3 years later and he’s still talking about “I gotta do this first, and line this up, why don’t you come live with me and finish graduate school and then we’ll get married”. Okay but I am 25 years old I’m not trying to play around! The closest I’ve come to meeting a black man who wants to pursue that traditional role is one who wants to TALK ABOUT IT and wants you to BE PATIENT while he does HIS THING, and makes you FEEL BAD about not BUILDING SOMETHING WITH HIM, but then wastes your time when its all said and done–years later and no ring, no proposal. So I do understand when some black men bemoan sisters not being patient with them, I am only like that because my time has been wasted before and let’s be real the WINDOW exists for a woman!

    And a lot of the guys I have met are simply NOT UP for being the strong male leader. Personally, I find it immature to be past 23 and still trying to “kick it”? Seriously? Now, I am willing to do my part and maybe I’ll have to put in a little bit more work in terms of my appearance and the social circles I frequent to get in better contact with these types of men. I mean, I am already college educated and live in a prominent mixed neighborhood, and I am physically fit and attractive but hey, there is always more work one can do.

    My only fear is that I will not find a man who wants to pursue the Biblical model and I will either be alone or pushed out of my race to find a man who will pursue that with me. When I go to church it makes me happy to see married couples with their children and the men leading the household and establishing that model so I do still have hope.

    I’m talking about a true Christian marriage with the man being the leader and protector of the household and the woman being the nurturer, and the two of them working as a team. Now I am not perfect, I am only human and I have many assets and some flaws. But overall yes I do consider myself a great catch. I’m smart as can be, very kind and compassionate and creative. I don’t have a lot of money but I am responsible and keep my credit excellent, stay in my budget, and I do read a lot about finance and investing so when I have more money I can build something that will last and not just spend. I am willing, in fact love, to do those traditional things– cook, clean, sew, knit, and I am very entrepreneurial and can be a great helpmeet to a husband but like I said I have yet to meet a guy who really wants to seriously pursue that, most just want to play around like this is high school and this is across all the ages I have dated from the twenties to the fifties! I remember I once offered to cook for a guy I was dating, in his twenties, and he did not want to come over to eat, he wanted to stay home and watch sports! I dated a guy in his 30s and he only wanted to text and meet at the gym to work out. I dated a guy in his 40s and he wanted me to come over and watch movies, and when I suggested going out he didn’t want to.

    I see the entire situation from a macro-level and I understand the historical, economic, social, racial, and gendered implications but I am a woman living in the here and now so I need some solutions that don’t involve compromising my beliefs. I do want to be with a black man but I am afraid if I keep seeking only black men I will end up unmarried and childless. In the meantime I’ve resolved I will keep working on myself and endeavor to frequent more social circles. But, I can see how a black woman could end up being very independent and comfortable being alone.

  • Fuchsia

    I don’t think it’s right to date a married man unless he is separated AND his wife can vouch for the separation. That being said, if the wife has a problem with it fall back out of respect for the situation. I personally couldn’t do it without feeling incredibly guilty about what the other woman may be going through as a result of our relationship, no matter what the man says. However, I do have friends that take no issue with marital status and I pass no judgment. I think for the married person it’s tacky to open one door before closing the other. But I understand life doesn’t always work out the way we want and in some situations things get messy and drawn out. I think in the Naomi situation money is a double edged sword. On one hand it complicates things, and on the other hand it makes it easy to create time and space between the two parties, therefore giving the illusion that it is a livable situation and that the marriage doesn’t exist or present a problem. All in all they seem willing to make compromises and sacrifices as long everyone stays happy. I’m sure the wife has a boyfriend, or it could be more like the open relationships that are trending in the U.S. To each his/her own.

  • MISS_EMCEE

    Can you guys please give this article the correct title. It should be “Iis it OKAY to ever date a MARRIED BILLIONAIRE OR MILLIONAIRE”. This man income is NOT of a man with a white or blue collar occupation.

  • Pseudonym

    There are articles about the election every week.

    Considering that this isn’t even a news/political site, I say that’s doing well.

    The rest of our lives don’t have to be put on hold because there’s an election. I voted last week and have put forth all the pro-my candidate (Obama) persuasive fb statuses and comments/convos and web comments that I possibly can. Just because I read this one article (as did you) doesn’t mean I’ve completely tuned out from the election, am not registered to vote, and am not focusing on anything else except Naomi Campbell and her married billionaire boyfriend.

    I’ve got the multi-task game on lock.

  • Ravi

    apparently, non-billionaires have different standards of morality than billionaires. Can’t think of a context where this is not effed up for normal folks, but rich men have been able to afford all types of mistresses and concubines for centuries. Nothing new here and if that’s how they swing, then so be it. Not like Naomi has every been someone to look up to. I’m pretty sure she’s been available for whomever has the cash for a while, as is much of the modeling world.

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