In the past year, I have come across a multitude of image macros posted in black community forums and by black friends in my Facebook feed discussing the “origins” of baggy pants.

Be wary of any PSA whose creator can’t exercise proper grammar or punctuation.

This “origin” story has been proven untrue again and again (see Snopes’ article on the subject here), yet it seems every month I see a friend who feels they are “helping” their community by alerting young men or the parents of these men to this notion, in hopes of deterring the trend, as no “real” straight man would align himself with “faggy” behavior.

It is no secret that the black community is not exactly “progressive” when it comes to homosexuality, especially in the arena of gay men. This can be attributed to the emasculation of the black male during slavery, and the fight to reclaim manhood. Male homosexuality is still seen as rejection of manhood by the older generation. If anything, the community is quite divided, most likely due to religious beliefs. It wasn’t until May of this year that the NAACP endorsed gay marriage, and that was met with plenty of dissent. It led to the resignation of key members of NAACP branches, most notably Rev. Keith Ratliff Sr, who lead the Iowa and Nebraska chapters. Last year, he spoke at a rally in Des Moines, making statements such as, “Gay community: Stop hijacking the civil rights movement.”

The NAACP hopes to bring the acceptance of homosexuality to the fold by this endorsement, but the dissenters have become more vocal. And more tricky with their words.

For example, another series features an attack on black youth culture with this:

According to “sources,” the popular word “swag” comes from a code in the 1960s gay bars and meeting places would use to advertise their homosexuality on the down low. Now, the jury is out on whether this was ever a thing, but I’m going to go ahead and call bullshit on it too. More credible sources, such as Online Etymology Dictionary, trace it back to an Old Norse word for swaying, fitting in with the “walk” a person with swagger is known for. The average, easily-accessible-from-the Internet-you-are-already-using-to-post-incredulous-infographics dictionary will give a similar explanation.

Or you could open a new tab and Google it without even clicking a source. Note this search took 0.18 of a second, probably a few seconds less than clicking the share button, writing your thoughts, and tagging a dozen friends on Facebook.

It is clear some members of our community are exploiting homosexuality as a means to influence the conduct of young black men. This not only works as a deterrent for what we deem improper in youth culture, but for homosexuality, as it is also perceived as amoral. By spreading this belief, they hope to deter homosexuality and its acceptance.

In a world where popular television programs, such as TV’s Glee or Modern Family, expose young adults to homosexuality in a positive scope, one would believe young adults are in favor of differences. (It is to be noted not many characters on television are gay and black, but that is an issue for another day.) As we told them growing up, being different is what makes you unique. Given the public outrage over Chick-Fil-A this summer, it seems the American majority is keen on accepting different sexual orientations. And many have been able to reconcile their religious beliefs with this acceptance just fine.

Those who post such graphics, or statements, seem to know or at least be slightly aware of the implications, but won’t or don’t care about the veracity of these graphics. Apparently, promoting anti-gay concepts is just the price to pay for getting our children to wear a belt, buy smaller pants walk straight, or stop using certain terminology. In short, to “act right.”

Do we really need to use tactics that breed anti-gay sentiments to tell our kids to stop acting like clowns? Whatever happened to good old, less bigoted scare tactics for flying straight (no pun intended)? Also, can we stop using #nohomo already?

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey RJ

    American culture is incredibly homophobic, period. I can’t tell you the amount of outright ignorant stuff I have heard, read and seen in my gay lifetime. I can count on one hand the amount of ignorance that I have experienced firsthand due to my race. I could write a novel about the amount of ignorance I have encountered as a result of my sexuality.

    I also believe that black folks are almost obsessed with homosexuality. For a while you couldn’t hear a young black man or woman say anything without saying “no homo” at the end. If you go to bossip and a lot of mainstream black blogs (don’t ask me why I still visit that site – I think it is out of morbid curiosity), every other article is about a gay people and it is always exploitive, sensational and inflammatory. If you read a lot of blogs and listen to a lot of black women, every famous black man is supposedly gay. And so many young black men are so afraid of being labeled gay that they go out of their way to represent the most exaggerated interpretation of manhood. Don’t get me started on the phrase “that’s gay” to describe anything negative or bad.

    The obsession fascinates and perplexes me. If we spent as much time demonizing being ignorant, uneducated, irresponsible, sexually promiscuous, having babies out of wedlock, being loud and obnoxious in public, committing crimes and the host of other real problems we have in our community, we would be better off. We need to attach more stigma to the aforementioned ignorance than to be being gay.

    All of that to say- your observations are spot on.

  • Jennifer

    At the end of the day. After the research I have done. I can conclude for myself that homosexuality is not natural. Call it ignorance. Call it whatever. But if even Buddhists don’t see it as natural. That should tell you soemthing. With that being said, the worst thing anyone can do is exert their own will over someone else. We are all here on our own journeys.

  • __A

    “The obsession fascinates and perplexes me. If we spent as much time demonizing being ignorant, uneducated, irresponsible, sexually promiscuous, having babies out of wedlock, being loud and obnoxious in public, committing crimes and the host of other real problems we have in our community, we would be better off. We need to attach more stigma to the aforementioned ignorance than to be being gay.”

    I agree. Many of these things and the attitude about homosexuality are caused by “acting black” which I see as refusing to progress or work on growing as a community.

  • Stephen

    It seems like nations/communities that are fiscally stable and religiously ambiguous tend towards accepting homosexuality. Most black communities are neither.

  • Yb

    *Sigh*

    The comments on this article is just going to turn into a bash black people fest and blame them for every social injustice in the world, while ignoring the un progressive sentiments of other communities and placing all negative sentiments on black folks. How fun!!

  • http://gravatar.com/arlette81 arlette

    tell us about this research you speak of.

  • O’Phylia

    The worst part oh homophobia is how people justify it, by saying “it’s what God wants.” God doesn’t want you to think that someone’s “sins” are worse than your own.

  • Hmph

    We know about other regressive communities. I’m sure homophobes are very common in the Middle East, but we are black. This is a website for black women. Why can people never admit that there are problems in our community without the “white folks do it too” argument?

  • Yb

    Please. This isn’t the “white folks do it too” argument. I didn’t mention white people in my comment. You did in yours.

    What I’m saying is that many of these comments are going to attribute homophobia with blackness, whilst berating black people with generalisations and stereotypes while condemning others for doing the same (using stereotypes and generalisations) toward gay people. I am not supporting homophobia in the black community but what I’m saying is that many of the comments will NOT propose solutions or answers to curb and eliminate the anti gay sentiments in the BC but turn in to a circle jerk discussion about how horrible, backwards, and primitive black people are. Where is the solution in that?

  • Pseudonym

    “The obsession fascinates and perplexes me. If we spent as much time demonizing being ignorant, uneducated, irresponsible, sexually promiscuous, having babies out of wedlock, being loud and obnoxious in public, committing crimes and the host of other real problems we have in our community, we would be better off. We need to attach more stigma to the aforementioned ignorance than to be being gay.”

    I am in *LOVE* with this comment!!!!!!!!!

  • Jennifer

    I will try to make this short for you. However, if you want more detail feel free to let me know, and I can email you.

    I started researching what different cultures have to say about homosexuality. And I found that most cultures had no word for homosexuality because it wasn’t practiced, it wasn’t something that was a part of their culture. The only culture that I could find that this existed in was European culture (Greeks and Romans). Hence why I think most white people are supportive of homosexuality now. (let me know if you want more detail on this).
    Then I looked at religions. I looked at traditional religions and then most modern day religions Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Ba’hai etc. They all do not believe in homosexuality. Some are more tolerant and peaceful than others.

    Then I went to my own personal source. I went to a university where the male population was predominately homosexual black males. Once I started talking to them, my findings were disturbing and enlightening. About 95% of the men I talked to were molested and came from single parent households (raised by mothers). Most of them had come into their homosexual lifestyle when they were teens, ny older gay men who had shown them the ropes, so to say. Four of the men I knew personally had become ex-gays. They’re stories are very interesting. We do not look at the role molestation plays in the lives of adults in regards to sexual orientation.

    I also looked at biology and what happens when men and women have sex. What happens when a woman is ready to receive a man. (Really think about this).

    I have a wealth of other examples that really convinced me. People just really ahve to do their own research and literally look to nature. If you ever have a question about anything in life, nature will provide the answer.

  • Jennifer

    I will try to make this short for you. However, if you want more detail feel free to let me know, and I can email you.

    I started researching what different cultures have to say about homosexuality. And I found that most cultures had no word for homosexuality because it wasn’t practiced, it wasn’t something that was a part of their culture. The only culture that I could find that this existed in was European culture (Greeks and Romans). Hence why I think most white people are supportive of homosexuality now. (let me know if you want more detail on this).
    Then I looked at religions. I looked at traditional religions and then most modern day religions Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Ba’hai etc. They all do not believe in homosexuality. Some are more tolerant and peaceful than others.

    Then I went to my own personal source. I went to a university where the male population was predominately homosexual black males. Once I started talking to them, my findings were disturbing and enlightening. About 95% of the men I talked to were molested and came from single parent households (raised by mothers). Most of them had come into their homosexual lifestyle when they were teens, ny older gay men who had shown them the ropes, so to say. Four of the men I knew personally had become ex-gays. They’re stories are very interesting.

    I also looked at biology and what happens when men and women have sex. What happens when a woman is ready to receive a man. (Really think about this).

    I have a wealth of other examples that really convinced me. People just really ahve to do their own research and literally look to nature. If you ever have a question about anything in life, nature will provide the answer.

  • paul

    @YB

    Yep you know it.

    Sigh for real

    Hard to know which end to start my carve up of the graphic, this piece about the graphic piece and the comments so far. So much crap in all three.

    First of all if there’s nothing wrong with homos expressing their sexuality then there’s nothing young people expressing their flare by following a youth fashion that defies merely dress code conventions, regardless if doing so offends no-sense-ibilities of a handful of perverted bigoted old farts who spend too much time lookin at young boy’s asses.

    Who elected you guardian of public morality? Mind your own damn business.

    As for the claim that black people are somehow less tolerant, than others -

    ha

    I’ve heard it all now.

    because we all know that “smallville” USA is a beacon of gay tolerance and that gays migrate to small town america to escape the unrelenting homophobia of inner city black folks..

    the facts

    most blacks are too apathetic about sagging pants and homosexuality to have an opinion on either, which is why the bigots and the usual busy bodies – who never concern themselves with any issue that really matters to black people – think they have a point.

    Ya don’t.

    I challenge the saggin brains to sag off.

  • http://www.myblackfriendsays.com myblackfriendsays

    Homophobia and racism do have their differences, I will be the first to admit that. At the same time, both are about about attempting to control and dominate a group of people and make them feel less than–simply for being who they are.

    This is completely unacceptable and we should not be complicit in trying to make another group of people feel inferior. Especially because we know first hand how damaging that can be.

  • Maeby

    @Jennifer
    “I also looked at biology and what happens when men and women have sex. What happens when a woman is ready to receive a man. ”

    You can’t read about heterosexual sex and expect to learn about homosexuality. You won’t on to do this “research” with prejudice. You were looking to prove

    You can’t just “ask around,” because experiences varies from person to person and most of us know little about psychology and biology.

    Try the American Psychiatric Association and read one of their newer reports.

    I don’t want to have to mention Wikipedia but go onto a page about sexuality/homosexuality. Then scroll all the way to the bottom until you see the “References.” There are two sub-sections , Notes and Bibliography. Both of which I hope you put to good use. Do actual research and come back to us.

  • O’Phylia

    You know, it is possible to be black and gay. The two aren’t exclusive.

  • edub

    While I personally don’t give a F**K who you F**K, biologically speaking it is unnatural and there is nothing homophobic about saying that.

    For a man to have sex, he has to insert his penis into the anus of another man. In order to do that, he must unnaturally lubricate that section . The anus is a pretty remarkable human organ in that it is designed to carefully regulate the highly unsanitary excrement from flowing back into the small intestine (sphincter 1) and from flowing out freely from your anus (sphincter 2). Damage to sphincter 1 leads to sepsis in a matter of hours. Damage to sphincter 2 leads to incontinence.

    http://www.homosexinfo.org/Sexuality/AnalEroticism

    Heterosexual sex (penis in the vagina), on the other hand, has established mechanisms to accommodate the penis (natural lubricant, relaxation of vaginal muscles, acidity to ward off most bacteria, etc.).

    *disclaimer: I do know that heterosexual couples do engage in anal and oral sex. However, biologically speaking these acts are still considered unnatural in the sense that they serve as risk factors to the homeostatic control of the body.

  • KE

    I agree with Jennifer. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (if not all) of the gay men I know or have known have been molested and/or grew up with single mothers in highly female-guided families, with practically no men in sight. Co-sign with Ehub, too.

  • edub

    Maeby,
    Anecdotal research is research. There’s a whole field devoted to it–QUALITATIVE research–and there are hundreds of observational studies performed everyday using a similar technique. I don’t think Jennifer is implying causation with her findings, but she is using it as evidence to both support and disprove her hypothesis.

  • Smilez_920

    While other communities do condem homosexuality , I think our community condemns it because they see it as a loss of manhood. Think about the majority of examples we see in movies , music or tv shows about gay black men, they’ve either been raped in jail and now for lack of better words some other mans (b1txh) , the ultra feminine ” snaps figures rolls eyes ” male or the down low brother . In all these examples a major theme is an attack or lack of manhood. Until ppl stop basing manhood on sex ( who you sleep with ) we can’t even begin to really be tolerable / accepting .

  • Jennifer

    @maeby I have done extensive research. I had to summarize and give everyone highlights to the reasons why I believe homosexuality is unnatural. The funny thing is, you are discoursing with someone who has and had NO bias whatsoever when it came to this topic. I used to be all for gay rights ALL DAY. That is until I had a very enlightening conversation with someone, and actually read and studied a variety of text. And I did do personal interviews with about 20 men, just to get a personal sense. My findings were if not anything, very sad. This is not a subject one should research with bias, but with an open heart. It’s that deep. Anyway, if anyone wants to learn more there is a wealth of information out there. And again, nature always has the answer.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey RJ

    @Jennifer, Oh lawwdd…you are crazy.

    I am gay. Grew up with a mother and father. Never been molested. Three best gay male friends. Gay as can be. Two-parent households, never been molested. They are gay..gay..gay. Please stop with the bullshit.

    And alllllll of your historical and biological research is not even based on any form of reality. Mitt Romney, is that you…With all of your made up facts, figures and your own version of reality.

    Homosexuality has existed in every single culture throughout history since the beginning of time. Homosexuality has been found in nearly 400 species of animals. There are gay dogs, gay pandas, gay horses, gay penguins…lol…so please stop with the nonsense.

    Here’s the reality, gay people exist and if you want to believe that 95% of us are sad little molestation victims and now we are just so confused about our sexuality, be my guest. Take that belief to a room full of gay people and see how far that nonsense gets you. Are there gay people who have been molested and sexually assaulted? Yes. And there are also millions of straight people who have been sexually assaulted and/or raped. So, what’s your point?

    Also all major religions reduce women to positions of inferiority, does that make those religions right? Most religions were lead by and propagated by men who thought the world was flat. So, saying that most major religions reject homosexuality is not really that impressive of a point.

    What annoys me the most about ignorance like yours, is that people like you are so freaking condescending and presumptuous. We yell from the rooftops about our experiences. We tell you our life stories. And you, some random person who has probably never really sat down and had a real convo with a gay person, tells us how and why we are gay. It’s not a freaking choice and no, we aren’t a bunch of victims. Have a stadium of seats.

  • edub

    I actually think it is a valid hypothesis. Having sex gives way to the release of a hormone, serotonin, which is responsible for us bonding with our partner. It is not out of the realm of biological possibility to have your first sexual experience be with a man, have serotonin releases, and be attracted to males from that experience. Abuse for extended periods of time can serve to exacerbate the issue– especially during important neurological developmental times such as brain pruning (ages 10 -14) where your brain actually restructures itself given you prior experiences.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_pruning

    I implore you to actually study these connections. I think we could discover some really interesting things.

  • http://valsotherblog.wordpress.com Val

    When I read the title of this post I knew the comments were going to go off the rails. And they have.

  • http://valsotherblog.wordpress.com Val

    So how would you explain the majority of gay men having grown up in two parent households and who were not molested as children?

  • Humanista

    How do you debate the “pros” and “cons” of someone’s personal lifestyle that has no affect on you or anyone else? How about we first debate the “pros” and “cons” of being black?

  • edub

    The question I would be interested in is the likelihood that an abused male child would be gay and is there a biological explanation for that. Which is a bit different from the question you raise, Val. The population base of my question would be abused males who became gay and not gay males.

    A study design would be a matched case-control study where you match men growing up in two parent households are were not molested to those who did/were not and see if the odds ratio of being gay was significantly different between the two groups.

  • Jennifer

    @RJ I think dialogue and communication can be had on any topic as long as its respectful. I am not trying to be at all condescending. I used the term “sad” because the people I talked to, their stories were very sad. I don’t think saying this is positive or negative. I just think it is what it is. If you took this as me being condescending, that is not at all what I meant. Also, I understand that not all gay people are molested. However, I do think molestation in regards to sexual orientation is not looked at as closely as it should be. I think reading and research should be done objectively, and free of emotion. That’s if anyone wants to do the research. I’ve done mine, I shared about ten percent of my overall findings. At the end of the day, as I stated before the worse thing anyone can do is exert their own will over someone else. That is not the point of life, and that is why I despise religion and media. However, it is important to look at things and ask the question “Why”? Why do I agree with homosexuality? Why don’t I agree with homosexuality? Why do I agree with heterosexuality?So on and so forth.

  • victoria

    I read years ago about a study that found a link between homosexuality and childmolestation. Lee Boyd Malvo rings a bell.

  • BoutDatLove

    Smilez, When the slavery by ships took place, homosexuality was a tool used to break black men and to take away their manhood… much like the when the slave owners would beat a man in front of his family to humiliate and degrade him, so he would be seen as weak in the eyes of his family & would no longer have his honor as a man. Also, just like the feminist movement, which Black woman were used for, which also aided in breaking down the black family & confusing gender roles, along with many examples though out black history. Everything is like a domino effect to me, but it is only meant to destroy us, but I think black people like the idea of being destroyed because we refuse to build & turn to God.

    Lastly, The word homophobic is always being overused. It is like you can’t disagree with or state your own opinion when this topic is discussed because you will be labeled a homophobic. If it is your choice to be a homosexual and call me a homophobic, then it is too my choice to disagree. If our ancestors were doing gay marches etc. we wouldn’t be here. We still ain’t free ya’ll.

    Even if you don’t believe in God, he said to be fruitful & multiple. Obviously this is the way to be fruitful and multiply, a man and a woman. But if everyone is sticking penis’s in each others butts and woman continue to bump vagina’s together, we will no longer populate the earth. I mean can’t we see the correlation between racism & genocide vs. homosexuality. Our enemies have been trying to get rid of us since day one & what better way through homosexuality, because we will self destruct because ”cursed is a homophobe who speaks against and disagrees with homosexuality.” SMH…

    @Jennifer, your post is on point too.

  • Since1989

    On every gay discussion on clutch so far, single parenting and kids out of wedlock in the black community is always brought up. It is quite contradictive to be against single parenting yet be an advocate of the gay lifestyle when both are in opposition to the familial structure that has been dominant in all cultures since the beginning of time. Both incidences go against norms that really keep a community functioning and intact. And there is a reason why both incidences are not dominant in any culture or considered apart of the norm because both are destuctive to the traditional setup that keeps everything running smoothly. So please stop trying to shame single parenting yet praise homosexuality. Both will create dysfunction and destruction of any community if they become the prevalent occurence.

  • Since1989

    If you are going to advocate for homosexulaity then you have to advocate for single motherhood and every other anti-norm that fights the patriarchal set-up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey RJ

    Yeah, I can’t with the foolishness.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey RJ

    What a silly and obtuse comment. Single motherhood is a choice. Being gay is not. I REPEAT. BEING GAY IS NOT A CHOICE. The reason why it is not and will never be prevalent in any culture is that it is rare.

    But even if everyone on planet earth were gay, what would that impact? Nothing. We would still have families, those families would just take on different forms. Children would still be born, but they would come about by nontraditional means.

    As for your postulation about single motherhood. Visit Iceland. The majority of children in Iceland are born to single mothers and they have low rates of crime and low rates of other ills that plague society. I do recognize that single-parent families can be problematic, but they are problematic for far more complicated reasons than what you might think. Single mothers who have multiple children and single mothers who have very little education and career opportunities are the “problem”. Single motherhood in and of itself does nothing to harm society.

    Equating the two issues is intellectually absurd.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey RJ

    @Edub…Okay, I’ll be charitable and grant you that homosexuality sex is unnatural. What does that prove? What does that mean? Weaves are unnatural. Perms are unnatural. Wearing clothing is unnatural. The computer that I am using to write this comment is unnatural. So, what?

    I could argue that people of the same races should only procreate with each other, because it appears more natural for us to pair off based on people who share the same physical characteristics. And hey, if “God” wanted us to intermix, why did he place whites in Europe and blacks in Africa and asians in Asia. All of these arguments are silly.

  • Seriously?

    Hm..Not understanding whats so perplex about the discussion…

  • Gotcha

    ….Single Motherhood is a choice?
    I repeat single motherhood is a CHOICE?

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey RJ

    @Jennifer…

    There is nothing to agree with. It’s just as absurd as “agreeing: with heterosexuality, or blue eyes, or brown hair. Lmao. It is a fact of life. I never one day in my entire life decided that I wanted to be gay. Not once. It is simply a part of who I am. When I went through puberty I found myself attracted to other people of the same gender. That was it,

    I have three older brothers. They are all heterosexual. I grew up in Tennessee in pretty much the backwoods. Never heard the word gay until my teens – but I did hear the word ‘faggot’ and knew that I never wanted to be that. Never saw any gay people. I was never molested. And I had a great relationship with my sibling and my brothers.

    I have many…many…many…many conversations with gay people about our sexual orientation and it is actually very scary how people from different backgrounds and ages will tell the story of how they came to know that they were gay and the stories are often VERY similar. It is eerie.

    I think reducing my sexuality and the sexuality of about 300-500 million people on planet earth to some sort of abnormal reaction to being molested, is insulting. It makes us into victims who are ill and need help.

    You can call me unnatural all day. You can call me whatever you want to call me. I don’t care. Long gone the days when I will invest energy in the useless opinions of people who don’t know me, my life or my heart.

    There is nothing to agree with. I am gay and I am just as gay as I am black, tall and chocolate. It is an immutable and harmless characteristic. Good day.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey RJ

    @Gotcha
    Yes, in the black community, it is largely a choice. Most black women are not made single mothers as a result of divorce. They are made single mothers as a result of getting pregnant by men that they are not married to. They are made single mothers by not using protection during sex. They are made single mothers by engaging in relationships with men who are not marriage material. So yes, by and large, single motherhood is a choice.

  • Hmph

    Single motherhood and homosexuality are not comparable. It is usually a minority of people who are homosexual. The majority of black children are brought up in single parent households. This is about not persecuting homosexuals just like we don’t persecute single mothers.

  • victoria

    REAGARDING ICELAND
    Many couples do not marry, but live in committed relationships under the same roof. In Iceland and in Scandinavian countries due too the higher tax rates placed on married couples, parênts live together as husband and wife. Baby mamas are not the norm. It’s financially smarter to not marry. Trust, many of these mothers are not raising their kids in fatherless homes. These places are too expensive to do so, but mainly because their cultures and values promote 2 parent household.

  • The Patient One

    Most men in the BC aren’t marriage or date material.

  • trey

    God loves the person, but hates the sin…………….

  • Get a life

    Two weekends ago I had the pleasure of attending the wedding of two black women. Both gorgeous (I mean gorgeous), well-educated, genuine, kind, dynamic women.

    To my heteros: why are we so invested in the lives of other people? My friends are doing there thing and aren’t bothering a soul. Why are we so hell bent on trying to fugure out their sex lives and why they are gay and all sorts of other bullshit. I don’t care.

    And to my gay friends: you shouldn’t care either. Keep doing you. Live your life. Be kind to others. Work on being successful and leave these lonely, judgemental haters in the dust. My two lovely friends enjoyed their day and they were glowing from the inside out. Love is love. People are people.

    Some folks act like there is a big gay lobby out to destroy the world and shit. Calm down and get life. The paranoia and irrationality is just so ridiculous.

    Go out and meet gay people. Talk to them. Have a drink with them and get out of your bubble. Most of the people posting negative comments have never really had relationships with real gay people and they are citing imaginary bullshit research.

  • Heterosexuals are often parochial

    I love how this article was about irrational homophobia in the black community and the comment section is full of irrational homophobia of black people. I particularly enjoy the comments of HETEROSEXUALS who are supposed experts on homosexuality. Tell me about gay people and why they are gay, you wise heterosexual who speaks for the gay community and their experiences. *insert eye roll*

    The arrogance of some heterosexuals is astounding. Why are we giving any credence to the opinions of heterosexuals about something they know nothing about? It’s like listening to a bunch of men talk about what it’s like to be a woman. Or white people telling me what’s like to be black. Spare me the homophobic nonsense.

  • edub

    My argument does not need your charity as my argument is a biological FACT. I’m not saying it proves anything. I am just surprised that the gay community is surprised that people find gay sex unnatural. I also think it is disingenuous to label people who think that way as homophobic as their aversion to it is backed up by nature. Even you agree with this.

    This is where the gay community’s plight for civil rights is wearing thin. You are both trying to argue for acceptance AND normalcy but you (not you, individually but you, collectively) are not both. You should be accepted and be given full human and civil rights granted to every other living and breathing human being on the planet. You should be allowed to be gay with all of the protections and provisions of the law. However, to me, the “gay” agenda is not to just be accepted, it is to take the world unnatural out of the discussion and shout down those who believe it to be so.

  • Ask_ME

    “Being gay is not. I REPEAT. BEING GAY IS NOT A CHOICE.”

    I call B.S. on this comment. I have seen it over and over again. There are quite a few so-called gays and lesbians who seem to turn their “gayness” on and off. These people often have children as a result of HETEROSEXUAL long-term relationships.

    Part of the reason I personally will never accept this idea that people are born gay is because I have seen far too many so-called gays and lesbians switch teams when it suited them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey RJ

    I am still trying to figure out how 3% of the population is destructive to the traditional setup that keeps everything running smoothly. Gay people have always been a minority because it is a biological minority.

    Is heterosexuality really that fragile? Are you all really that paranoid? I guess you all really do believe that homosexuality is a choice. That’s the only way that your argument sense.

  • paul

    LMAO!

    Hold up

    how did this convo end up being about single mothers? I’ve looked through the comments mentioning single mothers and none of em have demonstrated the relevance of SMs to a topic about

    erm . . ?

    wait

    what’s this discussion about again?

    Nothing whatsoever, just an excuse to give bigots of every kind the opportunity to bend over and show

    THEIR ASS.

    Every form of bigotry is getting a work out in this discussion, racism, misandry, female on female misogyny, HETEROPHOBIA and -

    EPHEBIPHOBIA – hatred of young people.

    carry on though – I’m sure that nothing any of you paragons of tolerance & respectability say here, will be used against you at a later date. Unless what you’ve said here is not something you’d say when you’re not anonymous..

    :-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/rochee.jeffrey Arghh

    @Ask Me…

    There is something called bisexuality.

    There is something called conforming to society and your family’s expectations and leading a heterosexual life so that you don’t have to confront prejudice, isolation and rejection on a regular basis.

    I know people who were once in heterosexual relationships because they wanted to conform and were taught since they can remember that being gay is evil and disgusting and now they are in gay relationships because they are GAY.

    I also know people who were in gay relationships and and because they wanted to conform and since they were taught since they can remember that being gay is evil and disgusting, are now in straight relationships.

  • Ask_ME

    @Arghh

    I don’t think so. These people don’t identify as bisexual. They identify as GAY and LESBIAN. When questioned about their past heterosexual relationships I have been told the following:

    1). Loved those individuals
    2). Was IN LOVE with those individuals
    3). At some point was done wrong by those individuals
    4). Sexuality is fluid (meaning, they reserve the right to switch teams again when it suites them).

    I have yet to be told by any of them the reason they stayed in LONG TERM HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS is because they grew up in religious families and they were scared into society. Keep in mind these are people who had children out of wedlock and shacked up without batting a eye.

    People here need to be honest. BEING GAY is a TREND for some. Some people honest DO choose to be gay.

  • Ask_ME

    @Arghh

    I don’t think so. These people don’t identify as bisexual. They identify as GAY and LESBIAN. When questioned about their past heterosexual relationships I have been told the following:

    1). Loved those individuals
    2). Was IN LOVE with those individuals
    3). At some point was done wrong by those individuals
    4). Sexuality is fluid (meaning, they reserve to right to switch teams again when it suites them).

    I have yet to be told by any of them the reason they stayed in LONG TERM HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS is because they grew up in religious families and they were scared straight. Keep in mind these are people who had children out of wedlock and played house without a second thought.

    People here need to be honest. BEING GAY is a TREND for some. Some people honest DO choose to be gay.

  • apple

    damn i miss the trainwreck

  • The Patient One

    Ask_ME

    Your experience is your experience, but do you sincerely believe that people choose their sexuality? The examples you give seem nothing more than people who are bisexual.

  • Smilez_920

    That’s cool. I’m not asking anyone to like it but to try to harm, disrespect or disrupt someone else life because you don’t like homosexuality is crazy. All I stated is where some of the ” anti -gay or hush hush sentiment in our community comes from. I don’t think everyone who doesn’t agree with the life style is homophobic. Never said that, but some ppl think because they don’t agree with that life style that the people who practice it shouldn’t be allowed to do so in peace.

  • Love Sosa

    this is like the dumbest thing i’ve ever read, like ever. who cares if you’re gay or straight. i mean like really, it doesn’t affect me in the slightest.

    your last paragraph is what’s wrong with society.

  • Love Sosa

    Superman loves Lois Lane too… and guess what…. that aint real either.

  • Stephen

    Because this train went off the rails as soon as it left the station.

  • Pseudonym

    Honestly, it’s most likely that you guys will not be able to convince each other that being gay is either a choice or not a choice. So you might just have to agree to disagree on this one.

    Either way, our energies would be better concentrated on decreasing the pregnancy rate among single and barely-in-a-relationship women and teenagers in the black community.

    …but I’ve learned from past convos that Clutch comment section is comprised of the Baby Momma Brigade, so no productive conversations can be had about that b/c too many women on here would rather defend and justify their bad decisions for future generations to make those same bad decisions just to not have to admit that they made an unwise decision once (or twice, or three times, depending on how many kids they’ve got running around). You’re not gonna get anywhere with either of those subjects.

  • Pseudonym

    No…homosexuality doesn’t have a common result of children with complexes from having their father absent. Homosexuality doesn’t have a close association with poverty.

    Why do you women insist on promoting single motherhood? It’s truly ridic!

  • Pseudonym

    Jennifer: did you ever consider that there might not have been a word for homosexuality b/c it was not considered a big deal or something worthy of special attention?

  • Yevi

    “These people don’t identify as bisexual.”

    Because bisexuality tend to be shamed by both heteros and homos alike.

  • Fantastico

    @ Get A Life Best Comment Yet!

  • NickG

    Iceland reference = instant hero! You rock!

  • Sil

    20 men? Really? That is in no way a representative sample size.

  • http://gravatar.com/tremulous tremulous

    @Ask_Me Is heterosexuality a choice?

  • http://gravatar.com/tremulous tremulous

    Is heterosexuality a choice?

  • http://gravatar.com/eliza2927 eliza2927

    you misspelled something

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