Many kids with famous parents often go on to seek their own careers in music or acting. A famous last name along with the connections made by the parent eases one into a career in Hollywood. They’ll tell you that they had to overcome their famous last name or that they didn’t receive any special treatment. Call me a cynic, but I don’t buy that for one moment, when it comes to the majority. Oscar winner Denzel Washington recently appeared on The Actors and he spoke about the advice he gave to his dark-skinned daughter Olivia.

I tell my daughter — she’s at NYU — I say: “You’re black, you’re a woman, and you’re dark-skinned at that. So you have to be a triple/quadruple threat.” I said: “You gotta learn how to act. You gotta learn how to dance, sing, move onstage.” That’s the only place, in my humble opinion, you really learn how to act. I said: “Look at Viola Davis. That’s who you want to be. Forget about the little pretty girls; if you’re relying on that, when you hit 40, you’re out the door. You better have some chops.”

Even with the Washington last name, Denzel is aware that Olivia’s race and gender are going to work against her. Consider for a moment that Nina Simone, a woman who was abused because of her dark skin and decided Afrocentric features, is being portrayed by Zoe Saldana. Even when the role specifically calls for a dark-skinned Black woman, we are not given the consideration we deserve. There are precious few roles out there for women period, beyond the floozy, the love interest, heroine in need of saving and the sexpot. As a woman ages, even these roles disappear, leaving her if she is lucky, to play the mother to a person ten years her junior.

To be a dark-skinned Black woman is to struggle to get roles and to get one’s talent recognized. Even with the ability to rely on her famous father, Denzel still gave the same advice that Black parents having been giving out since the end of slavery, “you have to be a triple/quadruple threat.” Denzel knows what all parents of dark-skinned children know – the worst stereotypes attached to Blackness, will be ascribed to your dark-skinned child, no matter how talented, hard-working or intelligent they are. This is the cost of living in a white supremacist state.

The success of actresses like the bi-racial Halle Berry is not a success for Blackness. Though Berry has gone out of her way to identify as Black, and promote the work of Black artists, the truth of the matter is that her light skin makes her less threatening to the White power structure. I doubt that even with the same talent, that a dark-skinned Halle Berry would have the social cache that she does today. There are some who would argue that this kind of argument is divisive because despite hue, all Black people must to some degree negotiate racism; however, it is an undeniable fact that some are simply given more opportunities than others.

Even within Black families’ hueism continues to be an issue. One child may be treated better than a sibling, simply because one is light-skinned. There are families who encourage their children to marry as light-skinned as possible to continue the light skin in the family. Surely, this is a legacy of slavery and the fact that the majority of images in the media choose to uplift those who are light-skinned versus those who are dark-skinned. Knowing this to be truth, we accept and even laud the successes of light-skinned people, though we know it does not translate into uplift for all Black people.

Denzel Washington is right when he warns his daughter that she is going to have to work very hard to have a career in Hollywood. The very fact that she cannot rely on her famous last name, unlike so many Hollywood children like, Michael Douglas, Ben Stiller, Drew Barrymore or Jamie Lee Curtis to at least open the door to opportunity, speaks loudly about the degree that race continues to impact Black people and particularly dark-skinned Black women. We can continue to deny that there is a problem to our own detriment or we can fight to ensure that all of the ways that Blackness manifests gets the representation that it deserves.

  • Shania

    He’s just being honest – it’s true! BTW I think the video you’re meant to upload is something along the lines of ‘Advice for Up and Coming Actors’ :-)

  • Box

    Attention please just leave the article if you are only going to say things like I’m tired of hearing this discussion blah blah blah. This discussion will continue when there is no issue. Now its true and sad that this is the reality. If you pay attention to little things there are really no darker skinned or black women represented besides Kerry. Just take a look at the commercials there is a black man/boy but no black girl/woman. We have truly disappeared off of the entertainment industry even in movies by black people the actress is 9/10 biracial.

  • Ashley

    So very sad and so very true. The author of this article is right on point. Thank you to Clucth for continuing this much needed discussion. Black women will not stand by as we are erased. Dark skinned black women are the mother of black people. Point blank, period.

  • Yb

    “Attention please just leave the article if you are only going to say things like I’m tired of hearing this discussion blah blah blah. ”

    Thank you!!!!!! This needs to be a disclaimer. Ladies of Clutch: No derailing the topic please!!!!

  • Reason

    Ugh. I just can’t co-sign this: Well, because light-skinned people get to be around the table of power that that should be our focus and not say fighting to be at the table.

    “The success of actresses like the bi-racial Halle Berry is not a success for Blackness.” It’s instructive that the author only cites Halle’s relative success. Light or dark-skinned Halle is the only black woman occupying the space she’s been occupying. Even at her peak Halle was never the highest paid actress in Hollywood. She was the first to crack the top ten if not top five. You could give a dark-skinned actress all of Halle’s “successes” and would anyone really be satisfied? When was the last time Halle made headlines for her artistic merit? The only woman in Hollywood whose career and life could conceivably garner envy is Angelina Jolie. Jennifer Aniston and Kate Hudson have resigned themselves to the rom-com ghetto. And winning Oscar is no guarantee. It has proven to be a curse. I mean really this is laughable: Halle Berry’s position in Hollywood NOW is something to envy? Um, the early ’00s called. And it’s 50/50 on how far a famous pedigree can take one in Hollywood. There are just as many celeb spawns who’ve failed.

    I am pursuing a career in filmmaking to put black women at the forefront but Hollywood in seems to hate women general.

  • Chillyroad

    I resent the phrase “Afrocentric features.” Africa is a big place with many looks in many different colors, shapes, and sizes.

    It’s a term that is generally used black Americans. We are not the only and final authority on what Africans look like. Can we find a better term, please?

  • Keepitreal

    Thank you for that disclaimer, I despise when issues facing black women in particular are met with the purposely naive “stop giving it attention and it’ll go away” B.S. but I have to disagree with you on one point, I’ve noticed TV commercials do in fact almost always feature not just dark women but dark women with natural hair whereas that is not the case in movies or TV. My theory is that the natural hair/dark women is such a rarity in media that she is used as a “unicorn”/attention grabber for those 30 second spots (but no more than that, of course)

    I read an interesting discussion regarding biracials, in a nut shell, the consensus was “we” screwed ourselves over by embracing biracials as black whether or not they self identify as such. IOW they get the benefit of blackness (playing black roles) while non mixed blacks get screwed over 2x, biracials are playing our parts and no way in hell would the reverse happen.

  • Box

    beautiful statement and very true. I know some of us think silence is this answer and we will look better but it’s not working i.e Zoe saldana playing Nina Simone

  • PB

    The only thing I don’t really like is the comment about “forget about being a pretty girl” or something to that effect. He just ingrained a deep seeded insecurity in her daughter that she is not pretty because she’s dark skinned. He unconsciously equated lighter skin with pretty, and that will stick with her. Parents just don’t seem to realize how their words can hurt their children so very much.

  • Leonard Smalls

    Interesting article; however, allow me to that this attempt by certain elements in Colored society to “guilt trip” the dominant group into accepting Colored people (male/female) arguably may not lead to the desired results.

  • Leonard Smalls

    What is the current definition of “Blackness”? Please no emotional responses, just plain facts.

  • Lady P

    Since this an ongoing issue, I think it was very wise for Denzel to warn his daughter of the truth. She is going to have to work extra hard. There’s no need to sugarcoat that issue. In addition, this is a much needed discussion. If it makes a positive difference for all women to receive work based on their talent and not race or colorism, the discussion should continue. Thank you for posting this article Clutch, I thoroughly enjoy the video and the article. :)

    And as always Jamie had me crackin’ up. He is mess!!!

  • AM

    Can we just take a moment and salute the foiiiiiiiiiness that is this man, in that GQ suit! God bless Black America, and also the motherland, and also the Diaspora.

  • Riiiiight

    You reject the phrase afrocentric features or do you resent the features associated with the phrase?

  • Chillyroad

    Maybe we should discuss why actors kids or kids with parents who genuinely made a name for themselves have to ride their parents coattails to the exclusion of actors who don’t have the name sake.

  • heide

    So I guess the success of PRESIDENT Barack Obama is not a success for blackness either. I mean seeing as he’s biracial as well. I’m not saying there’s no validity to what the author is saying but the problem is you need to find a better way to express it because the way it’s presented here is boring and blah and we’ve heard it a gazillion times and what…nothing.

    The biggest issue you have selling it they way the author goes about it is that we have a black first family, we have the Halle Berry’s, we have the Oprah Winfrey’s, Viola Davis, Jamie Fox, Forrest Whitaker, Bill Duke and isn’t a black woman in the new Bond smash in addition to the Kerry Washington’s and Shonda Rimes. You see so it’s hard to buy into this argument again and again.

    Of course it’s difficult if you’re any type of minority but it’s possible. There are tons of successful black, brown and beige women in entertainment.

    I guess my issue is that I don’t like the devisive tone of the article. It comes across as well diminishing one person’s success because they’re not black enough. Really? That’s where we’re at.

    What Denzel said to his daughter is correct but it’s something that 9 times out of 10 most black parents tell their children and I’m sure other ethnic groups tell their children as well. I know for a fact that asians do. And I’m sorry she should have to work hard and she should have real acting chops. It’s no more fair for her to get parts for her name and who her father is than it for Gwenyth Paltrow because of her pedigree. It should be about the talent. She shouldn’t get roles because of who her daddy is. I mean I’m not mad at that. You get in the door any way you can but you’ve got to be able to deliver in the end when it’s all said and done.

  • Chillyroad

    By ‘pretty girls’ I assumed he meant girls who just rely on their looks to get ahead.

    Maybe it’s not his daughter’s insecurity but your own.

  • Yb

    You arent even black American in the first place so you can sit your basic ass down attempting to speak on behalf of us. And I heard the term used by West Indians, west Africans, and black Canadians and Americans.

    Take your bitter, jealous anti black American some where else.

  • Smilez_920

    I see where your coming from but I think your missing the point.

    For the most part I’m light Carmel whatever . Even though there are not a lot of representations of black women as a whole on tv and movies , when one is shown she is usually very light or no darker than nia long. The media isn’t as open to darker skinned women unless thy are playing the stereotypical roles like ” the maid, or the struggle character etc…

    As a black women you will have your share of difficulties in this industry, but as a darker skinned black women, you will have some differnt challenges to face.

    Now like you I dont agree with the author saying Halle isn’t a representation of ” blackness ” or something to that extent. Blackness ranges from as light as Halle to as dark as Nina Simone , but until the media starts embracing our color spectrum ( white and black media) , it will be challenge for women like Oliva Washington.

  • wow

    I don’t really follow celebrities and their social fights.So, my basis for the next statement maybe flawed. isn’t Denzell’s love interest in his current movie(flight)a white woman. wouldn’t his actions speak louder than words. I would think Denzell would have the clout to insist on a black love interest in his movies. I guess viola Davis didn’t audition for his current movie.

  • http://gravatar.com/eynapanirb B.Payne

    He meant don’t rely on your looks…work harder.

    I doubt if Denzel don’t think his daughter is pretty and I assume that he reinforces that…esp if he’s giving her top tip advice for acting.

  • Chillyroad

    I reject the phrase that tends to narrowly define the features of close to one billion people. For all this talk about African people being so diverse how can we then you a hallow phrase like Afrocentric features? Whose features will represent Africa: Nina Simone, Alek Wek, Iman Bowie, Ajak Deng or Liela Lopes? None of them look anything a like but all African.

  • Caramel

    First of all, when it comes to Hollywood you have to use your movie ticket as a ballot, if you are not happy with what is being given, simply do not purchase a ticket!!!! If you continue to take your money (i.e. power) away by NOT buying tickets, then perhaps you will get what you want! Second, women in general, like one commenter stated rarely get good prime roles. There are no great roles for women PERIOD!!!!!! Black or white, which indicates that there should be more WOMEN writing scripts, like Kasie Lemmons, for example. You cannot moan and groan about it and not come up with a solution!!! If you want to see more beautiful black women on the screen, then do what Tyler did and start writing and producing and make it happen!!!!!! It is just that simple!!!!!!!!!!!

  • DB

    Yeah I think he was saying that as it relates to his daughter not focusing on her looks (as many in Hollywood do) because he later stated that’ll mean nothing when you’re 40. (loosely quoted) you’ll have to be able to truly act.

  • Chillyroad

    @YB

    Stay on topic before your comments get moderated.

  • Ashley

    Obama and Halle Berry are bi-racial. If bi-racial equates being black. Then does black equate being bi-racial. If so, then Viola Davis should be allowed to play Lena Horne in her biopic.

    Let’s keep it real. If you have one white parent and one black parent. You are bi-racial, and they’re is nothing wrong with that.
    The problem is when bi-racial people are allowed to represent blackness, but not the reverse. That is a double standard. If we are all the same, it shouldn’t matter. But the truth is we know there is a difference between biracial and black, we just don’t want to speak on it.

  • Ashley

    I honestly don’t know what it is for African Americans. But I know if you were to go to certain parts of West Africa, they do not consider someone like Beyonce black. They will tell you she is white. The problem with African AMericans is that theyw ant to claim everyone under the sun who has 1/10 of African lineage as “black”, even if they are as pale as paper. Look at the word “black”, and then ask yourself what is the definition of blackness. The word itself tells you what the definition of blackness is.

  • heide

    @Ashley You are beyond reaching on the Lena Horne Viola Davis comparison. It doesn’t work. Actually I don’t really get your comment at all.

  • Ashley

    That is only a small part of the issue. The issue is colorism and the eefacts it has on black people. The issue is dark skinned women are not represented equally in mainstream media and “black media”. We are being replaced with lighter skinned women. The issue is equal representation. The other issue is why the black community doesn’t see this as a problem.

  • Tara

    Back in the day browner skinned actresses did get a lot of roles. Although I am dark skinned, I still love Hallie and I think that most black women do…

  • Box

    @keepitreal That’s true I see alot of darker skinned/black natural haired women on McDonald, laundry commercials .

  • kayla

    THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUU! THIS IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Ashley

    In your original statement you talked about the tone of the article sounding as if the author was saying certain people are not “black enough”. I presented to you that there is a difference between black and bi-racial. President Obama and Halle Berry both have one white parent, while someone like me has two black parents. It is not a matter of not being “black enough”, it is a matter of not being fully black. There is noting wrong with this, its just a fact.

    I then stated that if biracial and black people were both the same, with no differences, then it should not be a problem for darker skinned black women to play roles of lighter skinned black women since that is what we are seeing with prevalance in today’s industry. Hence, the Viola Davis and Lena Horne example. I say all that to say that there is a double standard within the black community where bi-racial women get to play black roles, but black women are not allowed to play bi-racial roles. Black women are not even allowed to play ourselves as we can see in the case of Nina Simone and Harriet Tubman. It is hard for many bi-racial, light skinned, and white people to understand why black people would want to see themselves accurately reporesented.

  • Box

    Not to gear away from the topic but you just use “we” when talking about AA. I know you are Haitian living in the U.K with an Asian husband. I’m curious to know do you relate to Haitian culture??? I notice you tend to frequent AA based topics.

  • Chillyroad

    @YB

    Then we should use the term West African features since the very vast majority of blacks in the Americas like Nina Simone and Zoe Saldana are of West Afrixan descent. And when we say Africentric features we aren’t describing Somali women.

  • LMO85

    Your fourth paragraph in particular is on point and one of the main reasons I stopped reading Renee’s womanist blog as much as I used to…

  • Smilez_920

    So basically what your saying Ashley is if your not as dark or darker than Denzel or better yet Idris Elba you aren’t black?

    There are mixed children who come out looking like the darker parent .

  • Pingback: Denzel Washington On Dark Skinned Black Actresses | Celebrity News & Style for Black Women

  • Ashley

    I’m saying that is the standard for where I’m from. African Americans have created their own standard.

  • leelah

    OH! So the black woman slamming the door in the preview was the ex-wife? Thats another thing, why do they keep casting black women as the angry ex-wife and have brothers in loving relationships with white women at the same time? I smell a conspiracy

  • leelah

    are u serious? there are no good roles for women period? I’m going to let u have that argument with romantic comedies, which all star white women but Meryl Streep. Charlize Theron, Anne Hathaway stay working with some very good roles. The number of good white female roles is too many to list but u get the point.

  • Chillyroad

    I guess the only exception would be when our very own Denzel played brother Malcolm.

  • PB

    Right, because as someone who has probably never actually experienced what the girl is going through as a very dark skinned young woman, you would know so much better.

  • Reason

    Um, Janet Jackson’s non-biracial butt was up for the Lena Horne biopic which Lena personally gave her blessing until nipple-gate. And Denzel’s non-yella self did play Malcolm. Also, Angela Bassett got away with playing Rosa Parks. I think Viola wouldn’t get away with playing Lena in a Hollywood production but on stage or in an indie production she would.

  • hmmmmm

    Wow. The difficulty of black male fatherhood in a country still run by and for white men. Difficult for some, I’m sure but imagine how it must feel as a father – the best living actor at that with all kinds of influence and male privy – to have to tell your daughter this? He can not protect his daughter from a world that would falsely tell her she is less. I’ve hear folks talk about the non-black women who play opposite Denzel. if he can not sure up his daughter’s prospects what on earth can he do otherwise, if he wants to work?

    If folks weren’t so emotional and caught up in their own feelings and rejections this could be a worthwhile discussion topic for so many reasons.

  • PB

    These were his words, at least in the article:

    “Look at Viola Davis. That’s who you want to be. Forget about the little pretty girls”

    If you don’t see how he has just equated Viola Davis with “not pretty” and also told his daughter the same thing, you just don’t want to see it. A better way to state this phrase would be “Don’t build a career based on your looks, build it on talent.” You have to be very careful of your word choice around young people.

  • PB

    So do you disgaree that there are physical traits found in Africa that simply aren’t found in Europe, Asia and Australia? Do you have the same problem with the term “Eurocentric.”

  • Pick your Battles

    @Ashley

    Black is a culture. Those light skin blacks ancestors were slaves picking cotton out in the fields, sleeping on dirty floors and eating slop just like yours. The only difference is their female ancestors got raped and yours didn’t.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    yes, he do look good……(no homo)

  • http://gravatar.com/thereluctantsocialite thereluctantsocialite

    Um… I take it that neither of you have seen the movie yet.

  • Pick your Battles

    You’ve adopted the South African Apartheid Boers definition of black which was installed to dilute the power of blacks. You need to go learn some history before repeating things you know nothing of.

  • Chillyroad

    No. Black Africans aren’t a different species and because of the sheer size of Africa there are bound to be similarities. The only thing I can think of that is the most unique is the hair texture found in most parts of sub Saharan Africa. Not even the skin colour of Africans are that unique considering the range you can find in South Asia.

    I have less of a problem with the term Eurocentricism because it is rarely used to describe a European look. But even that term is very limiting because of its over usage when describing Anglo Saxon cultural dominance.

    None of those terms can adequately give justice to human populations.

  • C

    Ooops, sorry Clutch, I reported the reply on mistake.

    Anyway, Ashley…What? So, if that is the case, then I am black, because I am dark brown, and my sister–who shares the exact same mother and father–is not, because she is fair skinned like our mother. Wow.

  • Smilez_920

    It’s not just about being biracial it’s about being light or dark. Or in some cases looking more like the ” exotic parent” vs the black parent . ( like a Camorea Lee Simons, Ameria, Zoey Solandana.)

    When it comes to black women, our beauty has always been on the chopping block. We started off Saying black is beautiful, but it seems like in the entertainment industry , only a certain type of black is beautiful enough to grace the screen on a consistent basis . When this happens it takes away from the beauty of the black women who are being under represented. ( some not all)

    The last time I saw the color spectrum of black women represented on tv was on The show “Girlfriends” .

    When Denzel told his daughter not to worry about being pretty, he wasn’t trying to put her down . He was just acknowledging that in this industry her ” beauty” might not be seen as beautiful or good enough by some casting directors, so instead of her beauty being an extra brownie point ( like some actresses) it could be a strike against her, so she better act her ass off until they can’t do anything but say yes, and not see her beauty as a hinderance.

  • Ashley

    My ancestors did not eat slop. Nor, were my ancestors light skinned people. I come from a black people. A dark people. If you have light skinned people in your family that is great. There is nothing wrong with that. I simply stated what MY people considered black. Not what African Americans consider black.

  • Ashley

    @Pick Your Own Battles. What are you talking about. I am not African American and I am not South African. Would you like to talk to the people in my village/tribe so they can tell you what they consider black? There is a difference in what AA consider black and what Africans consider black because we did not go through mixing (forcible and non forcible) to the extent that AA did. Its just a fact. We are, by and large a dark black people.

  • Yevi

    The sad part is when a biracial black person identifies as biracial, they’re a self-hating negro for stating a fact.

  • Child, Please

    “Obama and Halle Berry are bi-racial. If bi-racial equates being black. Then does black equate being bi-racial. If so, then Viola Davis should be allowed to play Lena Horne in her biopic.”

    Simple, the one drop rule. You may not agree with it, you may not like it, but that was in place well before those that mentioned were thought of. It’s not a “double-standard;” if anything it’s an unnecessary standard set in by America which has caused this same divisiveness. Funny though, folks will only get mad if the bi-racial other is playing someone darker-skinned, but let the reverse happen (Angela playing Coretta Scott King) and mums the word.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    @ashley : ok, what are you?

  • Love Sosa

    Some of these posters on clutch are the most misguided, self-hating, i don’t get enough respect but secretly don’t respect my roots posters i’ve ever seen.

  • GlowBelle

    @ Reason: You also forgot the darker-skinned Diana Ross playing the lighter-skinned Billie Holiday in ‘Lady Sings The Blues’. I’m glad you and commenter Child, Please brought those roles up, because some people like to have selective amnesia about that.

    @ Ashley: I see your point, but the one drop rule, plain and simple kills the double standard. Also mixed/bi-racial people are always trapped in the crappy “pick a side” cycle just because society is ‘uncomfortable’ and can’t fit them in a box. That’s why the one-drop rule was made, to make the Whites breathe a little easier to know that they weren’t being outnumbered and diluted out. But let’s be real, President Obama and Halle Berry can’t prance in a room and say, “I’m white!!!”, their features and their genetics don’t warrant that “luxury”, so they are as Black as Viola Davis and Denzel. Also Obama and Halle have identified themselves as Black, if they didn’t, then we’d be telling a different tale. Bottom line is, they are bi-racial scientifically, but society will always label them as Black.

  • PB

    Why is it that wheneverbone of these articles pop up discussing the specific struggles of dark skinned girls and women those who cannot relate to the experience rush in to tru to put out the fire? Why are you trying to quiet the voices of dark skinned girls? Hell no, young black girl if you have something on your mind let it out. Don’t let the fear of someone telling you you are insecure or imagining things stop you from saying what you feel needs to be said.

    I mentor girls. One time I flat out asked one beautiful normally hubbly dark skinned girl if she was being teased in school. Her eyes welled ip with tears as if I had opened up a wound. These girls need our support and reinforcement not shunning. Stop telling your daughters they are cute to be dark skinned or suggesting that they are not pretty like other girls. Stop trying to sweep the real issues under the rug and act like your dark skinned child isn’t going through something. 9 times out of 10 YOU as the parent are part of the problem.

  • i.mean.really

    Thank you! People are always lamenting what roles are available to actors, but no one ever asks about the people behind the camera. If there are no black screenwriters, producers and casting directors then we’ll never see any black faces, regardless of hue.

    White people don’t care about what roles are available to black actors, since they can make a blockbuster without a black (or any non-white) face in sight.

    People collectively lost their ish about Zoe being cast as Nina Simone, but I didn’t hear boo about people being mad about the white woman writing the screenplay. A white dude directed Beasts of the Southern Wild.

    As long as we let them tell our stories, through their eyes, we’ll always be disappointed.

  • November

    Yes. I think the advertising industry is a bit better at showing darker skinned black women and not just in stereotypical roles like that Pepsi superbowl ad.

    Maybe with Kerry Washington and Joy Bryant, the TV world is slowly moving towards showing darker skinned black women.

    I think some black women themselves have a problem with this. I have read short stories and novels by black female writers and many times especially if it’s a book with a romance story line, the writers will write the characters to have long wavy hair or green or silver eyes.

    I read somewhere that black people respond in a more positive way to advertisement featuring light skinned or mixed people. I don’t know if that’s true, but I don’t doubt it.

  • EST. 1986

    The same thing happened when there was an article about light skinned women.

  • November

    What?!?!!!!?? This poster ChillyRoad is a black Haitan woman with an Asian husband?

    Mind blown.

    I would have never gotten that from this person’s comments.

  • shanet

    as a dark skinned woman I can relate to the perception that I’m viewed in a negative light at times- expected to ‘act more black’ and told ‘you’re so pretty’ in a surprised tone that makes me wonder if dark skinned pretty girls are not often encountered- which in Hollywood they are not. My parent’s same advice of ‘be a triple threat’ is always on my mind and gives me motivation to excel

  • Perspective

    I didn’t like this piece.

    I really getting annoyed with this victimhood thing that black women have going on. If I have a black daughter (biracial the way things are going) I don’t want her being around other black women with this PITY party that they throw every 5 minutes.

    Screw Denzel – Denzel and Jamie have enough money to link up with whatever black producer or other black philanthropist and start a black hollywood but do they do it? – HELL NAH. They just won’t – but Denzel – JUST LIKE TO MANY black people in the black community will SUBJECT their children to having to FIGHT for the white stamp of approval instead of creating an environment for his black daughter where she doesn’t have to FIGHT to get noticed.

    I’m so sick and tired of black people BEGGING white people for entrance into their world and then calling them racist for it.

    It is not in the best interest of white people to PROMOTE US – they will promote themselves, token blacks, and non-whites who aesthetically resemble them. That is what they do.

    That does not require hate – that is self interest and self preservation.

    Black women are their own worst enemy and IF I have a black daughter I really want my daughter to have nothing to do with most black women.

    I don’t want her infected with the pity party mentality, I don’t want her in a culture of BONDING over her problems, I don’t want her to constantly harbor on this idea that she is a doubt minority and therefore a double victim because she is both a female and black when in fact it will most likely be her brother who will fill the prisons or end up dead in a cemetery. I don’t want my daughter feeding into feminist ideals that will have her single and alone. I don’t want my daughter trying to COMPENSATE for her beauty when she is truly beautiful because all the other unattractive dark skin women got her feeling that they are just as unattractive as they are and believe that two degrees and a sassy attitude is going to make up for a nasty attitude and appearance when, as I said, what if she’s truly beautiful? Won’t matter if she believes everything said by black women in these pity parties.

    Fine dark skin black women ain’t complaining.

  • lol

    @Yevi

    no, the problem usually lies in the fact that some biracial people have a habit of “we all black” when there is something to gain and then switching to “I’m biracial NOT black” when they are in a better position/they have something else to gain by not being “black”.

  • AM

    no need to put the “no homo” disclaimer! There’s nothing wrong with appreciating the beauty of your fellow man. You and I gon ride together till the wheels fall off!!

  • [email protected]

    Because you are forever talking. You never give this issue a rest. If it rains to hard, “oh! It’s cus I’m dark-skinned!” If a bird poops on your forehead, “ain’t it cus I’m dark.” Why can’t the bird just have diarrhea and you convenient happened to be standing in the perfect landing spot? Like light-skinned girls’ lives are brimming with opportunity and promise. Really?
    It’s seriously too damn much. Give it a rest already.

  • zelda

    aaaah yes, thank you (a black man) for telling us this;
    “If folks weren’t so emotional and caught up in their own feelings and rejections this could be a worthwhile discussion topic for so many reasons”

    read=anytime that black women talk about what bothers them and how they feel the discussions are unworthy and thus just emotional rants, they should be talking about black men and their issues and how they feel, for those are the only worthwhile discussions in the black community.

  • lol

    and what if she’s not beautiful,even if she is biracial? what then?

  • zel

    “If folks weren’t so emotional and caught up in their own feelings and rejections this could be a worthwhile discussion topic for so many reasons.”

    read-anytime that black women are talking about their feelings and concerns they are emotional rants and therefore unworthy. the only worthy discussions in the bc are about black men and their feeling and concerns.

    why do you even come here if this is how you feel?

  • [email protected]

    Ok, I’m not touching this with a ten-foot pole. I’m not even going to dignify this comment with a legitimate response. My only qualm is this absurd perception that lighterskinned blacks have some inherit gateway into white culture that blacks of other races do not.

  • Keepitreal

    Of course not. Lol. SMFH Self hate is a beast.

  • lol

    “…that blacks of other races do not.”

    ?

  • Bout Dat Love

    First off, we need to stop looking for validation from a people who obviously hate us. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with a light skinned all the way down to a dark skinned black, black is black. OUr ancestors were of different hues, so we need to stop dividing as if one is better than the other.

    However, Ashely is right in saying that we have excepted a different standard of what black is, being bi racial is not being black. You still have a parent who is not black, therefore you are mixed. Also, I do agree with what someone else mentioned about the term afrocentric features, it is an ignorant term because black people have a variety of hair textures, shades, noses & lips etc. Which only makes sense because every other people (race) came from us. Lastly, It is sad to see that we have kept the mentality of our slave masters by causing hurt & excluding each other based on a damn skin shade.

    I hope us black people can see ourselves as a family one day, instead of ”Oh your light skinned, so you don’t understand.” Or ”oh your dark-skinned so I’m better than you,” type of mentality, because in the world out there, you can be as light as you want & as dark as you can get, but they will always see you as just another negro and nothing more, so let us get it together.

    I’m not trying to deflect from the issue but every time there is an article concerning the black community (on black blogs) it is usually about others not accepting or liking us. It just goes to show that we need to get it together & learn to love each other & ourselves because they will never love us, and we need to except that. Our relationship to our enemies reminds me of children who are looking for love and acceptance from some abusive kidnappers, it is very strange, sick & sad.

    Black is & will always be beautiful.

  • Gotcha

    How can you fix something if you don’t know it is an issue?
    How can you know something is an issue if you don’t talk about it?
    If you hear something over and over and over and over and OVER and you’re not understanding why you keep hearing it over and over and over and OVER you’re probably GONNA keep hearing it OVER and OVER and OVER until you DECIDE to do something about it and news flash the whole “don’t talk about it’ll blow over” ain’t working which is why you keep hearing the same old colorism stories over and OVER.
    Like SERIOUSLY why is this a bit, difficult to comprehend? I’m absolutely sick of hearing/reading people “dismissive attitudes” saying somebody is looking for a pity party-you-just -need- to- stop -talking- about- it responds.
    If you can’t relate or empathize just don’t comment.
    “WELL GOTCHA What you expect ME to do?”

    Encourage.
    When the opportunity arrives encourage those who you see needs it. Make sure “you’re” in check and treating everyone equally and not saying ignorant comments so commonly heard in black communities. “You’re pretty for a black girl” or “if you were lighter you would be REALLY pretty”. This is real if you have people in the comment section, people coming out on in the entertainment would saying “HEY THIS IS HAPPENING TO ME” how can you possibly say “EH, JUST stop talking about it-EVERYONE will treat ya GREAT!”

    New Generation :
    I have two nephews 12 and 11
    the younger one is light-skin and everytime they come to visit me the younger one always make some kind of reference to his skin-color PURPOSELY trying to put down his older brother, who might I add is dark skin. Now, I doubt he picked that out on his own, he must have got to hear and seen that behavior from somewhere and that means that attitude of colorism is STILL prevalent in our issue and its 2012 OMG. All these ISSUES are still alive at 2012, shocking!
    maybe its because we all want it to blow over and not talk about it like its not an issue.

  • Mademoiselle

    The irony: “but Denzel – JUST LIKE TO MANY black people in the black community will SUBJECT their children to having to FIGHT for the white stamp of approval instead of creating an environment for his black daughter where she doesn’t have to FIGHT to get noticed.” ==> “IF I have a black daughter I really want my daughter to have nothing to do with most black women.”

    You’re mad that the black well-to-do aren’t creating opportunities for other blacks and then go on a rant about not allowing your future children to associate with black women. So, when the time comes, whose approval will your children be chasing if not white people’s? You’re fighting the fire with flames.

  • Chillyroad

    @Box

    I didn’t fail to notice your little “gotcha moment.” Not sure what anyone’s life has anything to do with this topic or any topic. Perhaps in your intellectually bankruptcy you can’t fathom that regardless of anyone history or profile they can still manage to OBJECTIVELY contribute to any topic they have sufficient knowledge in.

    So not only is this space not for men but it is only for certain black women. What’s with the ethnic cleansing? I feel like I am in Pol Pot’s Cambodia.

    For the record I was born and raised in the US and would appreciate if my comments are judged on its own merits.

    Next time you comment refer to Clutch’s comment policy.

    Thanks.

  • Chillyroad

    @November

    Yes, in your ignorance you assumed that based on what little you have heard about an anonymous commentator on a blog you can pigeon hole someone’s politics and values.

    Welcome to the world outside the hood.

  • Box

    @Chillyroad You just wrote a whole lot and said nothing please refer to the Lauryn Hill post you commented on.

  • Box

    @November yes this is true. I usually ignore the troll because she’s known around AA particularly women based blogs but I had to say something once she used “we” to refer to us yet she puts us (bw) down all the time.

  • cupcakes and shiraz

    I remember that, which was horrid. If you want people to respect your struggle, you should respect others’ in turn.

  • Perspective

    @ LOL – If she’s NOT BEAUTIFUL – (even if biracial) I’ll tell you want she’ll NEVER BE ABLE TO DO – unlike black women.

    SHE WON’T BE ABLE TO BLAME HER UNATTRACTIVENESS ON HER SKIN COLOR!

    If a white girl is just ugly – she’s just ugly – What is she gonna blame it on being WHITE?!

    But sistas – an unattractive women can NEVER EXIST!

    Gotta be because she’s dark skin.

    Denzel’s daughter ain’t no KERRY WASHINGTON.

  • DB

    I agree I think this generation is very different also in terms of having these convos and it’s killing me. And not just this generation, I believe many have checked out of “blackness” so to speak (yet will not stop reading these types of articles go figure) There was a time that black people of all skin tones could sit around a table, have this convo and everyone would understand EXACTLY what was meant by it rather than taking it personal or seeing it as self pity.

    Rather you were a light skin black woman or not, rather you were a mixed light skin woman or not. There use to be a time where we understood each others struggle. And often times it was the mixed woman (in my experience of course) that could relate the most because of how she was placed on a pedestal vs a dark skin family member. Rather people say it out loud or not, light/white is right comes out in action form. So if you have a gorgeous dark skin cousin, prettier then you even but because you’re mixed guys come at you, you’re going to notice that and understand when your cousin then speaks on her dark skin woes.

    My niece and I actually had a convo about two weeks ago about this, she knows her struggle, many of our struggles are the same but she also knows the struggles of the dark skin women in her life. I don’t get where this has become such a debate or unknown thing and quite frankly it’s scary because not only does the ignorance lives on society has somehow convinced us that we’re our own problem. There isn’t a group of people that do not have faults so that isn’t to say there aren’t people out there woe is me-ing it to death but that shouldn’t overshadow the issues either.

  • Perspective

    Actually your comment doesn’t make sense.

    Here is Denzel with the means to do something. If you KNOW how it is Denzel – you don’t subject your daughter to that. PERIOD – this is the same as in the job opportunity world where black people subject their children to the mercy of whites in obtaining employment instead of creating something and passing it onto their children.

    We keep trying to be ACCEPTED by whites only to tell them – OH BY THE WAY – YOU BEING ACCEPTED IS CONDITIONAL – I say – bump that – HAVE YOUR OWN DAMN HOLLYWOOD.

    Black people had the Mulan Rouge and in less than a year the white mob shut that sucker down because it was taking business away from them. ONLY INTEGRATED CASINO ON THE STRIP!

    1955

    But you know black people will never recognize what they are capable us – we will just continue BEGGIN WHITE FOLKS

    2nd part – and NO i don’t want my (BLACK DAUGHTER) if I have one being around other black women if THIS is their mentality.

    Pity party after pity party!

    Its like having your child around a bunch of black folk who say – DON’T EVEN TRY TO ATTEND COLLEGE BECAUSE YOU WON’T GET IN.

    I do not want my daughter around that type of negativity.

    SAD TO SAY – but if she’s BIRACIAL – she’ be KICKED OUT of the black female group ANYWAY – or at least as soon as MEN walk into the room.

    I don’t want my daughter to go through all this mental torment and anguish that black women LOVE TO BOND OVER.

    Black women are like a room full of war veterans fighting over WHO HAS THE MOST HORRIFIC BATTLE SCAR.

    “Oh yea not only am I dark, I have big lips and nappy hair”

    “Oh yea not only am I dark I don’t have an ass.”

    “Oh yea not only am I dark – but I’m fat too! So I’m the ultimate victim – PLEASE FEEL SORRY FOR ME!”

    I DO NOT WANT MY DAUGHTER AROUND THAT HOT MESS! SELF-LOATHING AND SELF-DEPRECATING MINDSET!

  • Princess Di

    I’m genuinely confused about Denzel’s comments. I’m sure they are coming from a place of love but to me it sounds like he’s saying because his daughter is dark-skinned she is not pretty and will have to work harder. Especially the “forget about the pretty girls” comment.

    I’m dark-skinned and was ALWAYS told by my parents that I was beautiful and it was not despite the color of my skin. I was beautiful point, blank, period. If I was on the receiving end of Denzel’s comments I would think “wait a minute. Did he just call me ugly?”

  • Ms. Information

    Racism is deeply embedded in American AND African American culture…even within Denzel’s comment “forget about the pretty girls” he basically told his daughter that he wasn’t a pretty girl. I don’t beleive that colorism will ever die because it has been passed down through generations and perpetrated by the media..dark skinned girls get the ugly, mean, fat, strong roles – light skinned girls get the damsel in distress, beautiful, weak roles….both highly stereotypical…but honestly which stereotypes would you rather be victim of?

  • Chillyroad

    Black American women don’t speak for all black women. And just because I’m not goose stepping to you political and social views doesn’t mean I’m a troll. I have every right to be here regardless of my parents immigration status.

  • Mina

    Um, that’s a lie. Your child could come out either brown skinned, olive or pale if she’s biracial. Just look at Key and Peele. Being mixed still means you still have melanin in your skin that can easily turn dark if you stay out in the sun too long. I’m sure in your future, you’ll have your child prepared with SPF and skin bleach 24/7. That’s going to make her even more insecure and ashamed of her skin, her self-esteem, and her race because now she will be dependent on having ever-lasting pale skin to be deemed as beautiful by others but she will forever be seen as inferior and ugly because she’s 50% black and therefore will be seen as a “black woman”. Nobody cares if you’re really mixed in this society, the only thing that gets you a pass is well passing to be white. Your actions, mannerisms, the way you speak, the food you eat, the traditions you practice, your hair, skin, eyes, face, etc must match up to European/Western white hegemonic notions of society as well as the notions of beauty for all minority women, which is White feminine beauty, in order to receive the “white privileges” of being a so-called biracial “black woman”, latina, asian, indian, or other racial minority.

    Asians, Indians, Latinas, and other racial minorities also are subjected to colorism and often do blame their issues on their race and culture as well. Most often the ones who are seen as token minorities also model themselves around the Western white hegemonic notions of society to be seen as model minorities for all people within their race to act like. You must be seen as an oreo and literally self-loath your race and your skin to feel like you’re accepted into white society. You must partake in polo, golf, tennis, skiing, and other things considered “white”. If you celebrate your culture in anyway, you’ll probably be taken less seriously and people will be reminded that you’re totally black or Asian because you totally love anime and miso soup and enjoy sleeping under your kotatsu when it’s cold outside. And white people totally don’t do that.

    But the fact of the matter is, you don’t have to raise your daughter up to feel pitiful about her race or skin color. You can tell her she’s beautiful everyday even if she’s dark skinned but if you yourself don’t believe it, she’s not going to either. You can tell yourself you don’t want her to be a double victim because she’s black and female but that’s how our patriarchal hegemonic male society works. Female and racial other is a double whammy. Doesn’t matter if you’re black, asian, indian, native, latina, etc. If you’re seen as a racial other and you’re a woman, you’re still subjected to discrimination, oppression, unfairness, and more because you’re automatically seen as inferior because you’re first a woman and secondly because you’re a racial minority. Women are already a minority in and of itself so you’re still going to be a double minority until you have a FtM sex change and you go into stealth mode or passing.

  • Mina

    Idk if he tells his daughter everyday that she’s beautiful or not but I’m sure the girl probably tells her dad about the “pretty girls” always getting attention, getting more things handed to them easier, or having life more easier, etc and she’s probably internalized that. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be giving her a pep talk about forgetting the “pretty girls”.

    She’s a college student. She’s gone through at least 20 something years of being put down because she was dark skinned and has internalized it based on her skin color and race and probably felt like she would have had it easier if she was light skinned or bi-racial. There’s pretty girls all around and there’s no doubt we do to some degree feel more or less inferior based on our self-esteem issues. But forget about them and just do you and prove everyone wrong.

  • Chillyroad

    @perspective

    I have to agree with you regrettably. The worst part is that even if there was a black Hollywood some black women would still be I unsatisfied. Black folk and black men don’t have enough status to give some black women the validation they long for. Only white people can go that. Until then there is nothing blacks can do for some black women.

    If you read the comments about Kerry Washington and the Damsel in Distress it’s the same dam thing.

    I agree. What business does white Hollywood have with putting black women in those roles? Most Americans are white women. They are the ones that need to be catered to not black women who like black people are a stagnant demographic.

    I do wonder if Asian or Hispanic women talk about this stuff on their blogs.

  • zelda

    “Black is & will always be beautiful.”

    the sad thing is this,^^ needs to be something the WHOLE group believes but one half of us does not . (black men).

    i never hear them say this. it’s always the women. just like it’s always the women talking about black love. never the men.

  • Serene

    I’m sure Gabrielle Union is complaining. Along with Regina King and Nia Long. All of these women are just as pretty as Halle Berry, but they did not have the same opportunities that she had.

  • Keepitreal

    Nu uh!! You must be bitter and or insecure for stating the obvious<—–typical STFU, deny, deny, deny response when certain topics are discussed within the black community.

  • hmmmmm

    you are playing gender games, trying to create waring sides while i was only trying to indicate that their is a bigger picture to look at. my statement was based off the fact that these issues are problems beyond you as a black woman. this is not about YOU feeling pretty. this is not a black woman’s account. this is denzel washington talking about HIS daughter, not you or any woman reading this, and that should indicate that the problem is not only a black woman problem, it is a problem for black america; for available black fathers who can not protect their daughters the way white men can and do. this successful and rich man, can not create inroads for his daughter where other men can. his gender and success and marriage provide nothing to improve his black daughter’s prospects in an industry he has evolved. did you not read that in the story? did you miss that angle?

    it is bigger than you feeling good about yourself. and it is bigger than me. it is bigger than your sexism or mine. it’s obviously bigger than denzel and his status as an A-list actor.

    turn down the women’s studies overload for a bit. in the context presented here it seems that this is larger than your individual struggle and rejection, i think.
    it is a larger story that speaks about the marginalization of a people regardless of gender.

  • Pingback: Denzel Washington And The Difficulties Of Being A Dark Skinned Woman In Hollywood | Praise 1300

  • hmmmmm

    because as my 70 year old alabama-born dark-skinned mama taught me i am free. thus i move where i want and speak when i want to….regardless of the forum or audience, as she does.

  • hmmmmm

    you need to upgrade the menfolk you hang with.

  • Chillyroad

    I can think of tons of light skinned actresses who are even less popular then the aforementioned group… Lisa bonnet jasmine guy jada Pickett smith Hillary from fresh prince. Etc.

  • Chillyroad

    @zelda

    Black is beautiful but not every black person is. Do black men have to find every black woman equally attractive? Haven’t you run across some ugly brothas?

  • The Other Jess

    Denzel is a sell-out. Who cares what he has to say? If he was so concerned about Black women – dark or light – getting roles in Hollywood he would push for them and not cater to Hollywood, white, mainstream stereotypes. Black women really need to stop looking to Black men to vouch for them. Black men in no way reciprocate any real concern. They “get theirs” and go.

  • The Other Jess

    Many Black men who have dark-skinned daughters deep down hate them. Denzel is no different from lil wayne. Once Black women figure this out they will be much better off. I say drop Black men just as they have dropped you – and try to embarras you – and keep it moving.

  • ?!?

    Really?

    This is a black woman’s site. Of course it seems like we’re complaining. This is an issue we face. Most of the issues on this site will be about the issues black women face not just black men. Is colorism not a big one? We talk about weight, hair, dating, politics, music and many other things. Of course colorism will come up. And it comes up even less than many of those other topics. I have explained this so many times I’m sick of talking about it. How many times you probably whine all over the world wide web about matriarchy and black women this and black women that. It’s stupid.

    I’m sure you don’t fail to realize that the majority of black women in real life don’t sit around talking about how they’ll never be this or be that. The majority of us go about our daily lives and enjoy them.

    This article was fine. You simply decided to do as you always do and make it into an “I hate black women” rant or trying to “educate” us with some of your drivel. When black men complain about stupid crap on your blogs, no one tells you that you are trying to have a pity party. There was an article about Naomi Campbell being some man’s mistress. You went all off topic talking about matriarchy. There was an article about women having low self esteem because of male expectations. You started talking about matriarchy. You say the same stuff on any article. If there’s ever any article about a black woman having to go through ANYTHING that doesn’t have anything to do with racism(that’s all people like you understand), there you are saying that we’re whining about things that don’t matter.

    Good God. Go get a non-black woman since we’re forcing you to dislike black women by reading 50 something people’s opinions online. You’re annoying. Maybe she can put up with you.

  • __A

    I am light skinned, and I wasn’t offended by the comments on that article. Let’s not pretend that the discrimination that light skinned people face is the same as that faced by dark skinned people.

    There are white people who experience discrimination. A lot of black people ignore claims of “reverse racism” and say that black people can’t be racist.

    I think it’s natural for a group that is often seen as inferior to be annoyed by the cries of a group often seen as superior. I understand that light skinned people get picked on and it hurts too, but I definitely understand why dark skinned people see it as whining. Not dismissing other people’s experiences and not playing the oppression Olympics is something people have to work harder on, but I understand why people feel this way.

    As a light skinned person though, I will discuss colorism in the black community because many times people try to silence darker skinned women by telling them that they are just jealous or saying that they’re playing the victim and being sensitive. I can see how this could be very damaging for self esteem. It is highly likely that if my husband is dark skinned, my child would be dark skinned. I would not want anyone to treat them the way that darker skinned women are being treated these days: treated as less than and then dismissed when they bring up their mistreatment.

  • Princess Di

    Wow! That is extremely pessimistic. It saddens me to hear people using this topic as a reason to bash black men. A black man has never “dropped me” and I will continue to support and love my brothas despite the actions of a few.

    SMH.

  • hmmmmm

    soooo.denzel is a sellout and you are the one pushing for black women to “drop black men”like their Viginas are going to spit out white babies? what label do you deserve?

  • Mark

    You let the @the other jess comment stay but delete mines? Your can’t handle the truth. I guess I’ll just have to use different computers and screen names. You can’t delete them all. Silly insecure woman. lol

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    Very good wisdom gifted to the young lady from caring father.

  • Perspective

    I don’t think I’ve ever met a black woman who was dark skin who would ADMIT – that a either she or another dark skin woman WAS NOT ATTRACTIVE.

    It is such a bore to hear black women constantly DEFAULT to – OH THEY DON’T LIKE ME – OH ITS CAUSE IM DARK SKIN.

    Can a girl just be dark and NOT be all that – and stand alone without being compared to biracial women.

    Gotta love those INDIA ARIE VS AMBER ROSE self hate litmus test.

    AS IF THAT WAS A F’IN CONTEST!

    Nah chich – go back in the room and go get me Kerry Washington or Jill Marie Jones!

    You know this India vs Amber ain’t a damn contest.

    BW: Yes huh because if you pick Amber over India – THAT JUST PROVES YOUR SELF HATING.

    Black men’s eyes roll

  • Perspective

    Oh don’t forget Tisha Campbell because you know how ninjas just FANTASIZE about her and her lustrous fair skin.

    (eyes roll)

  • Perspective

    Statements like this MAKE NO SENSE –

    I can’t stand black women with colorism issues.

    here they are crying about LIGHT SKIN WOMEN – then blame it all on black men

    THEN TALK ABOUT GETTING WITH A WHITE MAN – ONLY TO HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO WILL MOST LIKELY LOOK LIKE THE VERY WOMAN WHO THEY CAN’T STAND RIGHT NOW

    OHHHHHHH THE IRONY.

  • Perspective

    “she will forever be seen as inferior and ugly because she’s 50% black and therefore will be seen as a “black woman”.

    So basically a black man can get with ANY race of woman and still produce a black daughter

    WOW way to really make black women superfluous to having black children.

    Then you wonder why we have brothers out here talking about I can get with a white woman and still produce black children. – WHICH I DON’T AGREE WITH BY THE WAY.

    But it’s amazing at how willing black women are to SHOT themselves in the foot just to try and make a point.

  • Perspective

    @ Serene – and who are you blaming that on – BLACK MEN – or the white men who put Halle Berry up there because THEY find her appealing because she has the aesthetics of a white woman, which is THEIR OWN WOMEN.

    When white men are trying to preserve and maintain their patriarchy it is not in their best interest to PROMOTE other races of women – which is why I don’t know why you are over there CRYING – that they aren’t promoting you and filing the complaint underneath EQUALITY AND BEING FAIR. That’s a joke!

    You all want validation that

    1) would be based on there actually being a patriarchy in the black community and

    2) validation that black men currently can’t give you – not with the current state of the community

  • BoutDatLove

    Zelda, if your comment came from your own personal experience and hurts, don’t be discouraged and I hope you heal of your pain. After all of our oppression, we have forgotten that we are created in the image of God and that we are loved by God. It is only the hate and jealousy of our slave masters that make a deal about skin color (all over the world) because they are without skin color and were not created in the image of God. We asked for equality with people who hate us, now we are dealing with the trauma of everything that came with it. I don’t see this as a topic to bash one another, but a chance to listen to each other & through listening, to heal one another.

  • Perspective

    Chillyroad – THANK YOU – these women trying to speak UNIVERSAL BLACK BEAUTY into existence where 100% of black women are beautiful is INSANE.

    If every light skin chick isn’t pretty or beautiful – then what makes them think that every dark skin chick is.

    Sure we know about white supremacy and the women who are promoted – but REAL TALK – I don’t see too many ugly light skin women with OVER THE TOP PROMOTION or any promotion for that matter.

    I get tired of dark skin 5′s crying about light skin 10′s as if it was a contest.

    I as a black man is not trying to go up against Boris Kodjoe or Brad Pitt and if they get more female attention I’m not going to scream SELF HATE.

    They are good looking men.

    I know that there is a STANDARD of attractiveness for all groups.

    Black women seem to miss this – THEY WANT TO PLAY – eternal VICTIM!

  • Perspective

    “This is an issue we face.”

    The problem with articles like this is that its giving out a VICTIM CARD to every black woman who feels like she doesn’t fit in.

    There are 200lbs black women blaming their lack of desirability on SKIN COLOR.

    Its one big fat PLATITUDE. A cliche complaint that has been filed WITH NO DISCRETION.

    When all else fails blame it on dark skin.

    Amazing how the women who complain the most don’t really look like much.

    I know some chocolate sistas who can’t shake dudes off them. They are not complaining. Your girl Buffy the Body just did a video about women not working out but crying and complaining.

  • simplyme

    I haven’t noticed any comments here expressing any negativity towards women with lighter skin tones.

    …and you do realize the that the more you comment, the more women are unchecking the Black/African American check box from their eharmony profiles as we speak… just hoping not to run into any guys like you. The only reason some women beat the “get yourself a white guy” IR dead horse in the first place is because they’re trying to escape from you…. men with a vendetta, baggage, self hate issues, a grind to pick, a battle to fight, a complex about Black women… all because of your ex or mommy issues. Its tiring. Thats the real irony.

    Your comments do not contribute positively…and only incite more negativity. Maybe you should stop worrying so much about the Black women you can’t stand and hold off on speaking so frankly on issues you really have no experience to speak about.

  • Pink Lipstick

    Perspective you are missing the point of the entire article. I think Denzel’s comment raises two major issues: the fact that black people do not own their media and the fact that society discriminates upon dark-skinned people.

    I am personally tired about black people providing nothing but critical discourse about social issues. For example, we love to talk about our lack of representation in the media, but we fail to create black establishments that will remedy this problem. How often do we encourage black women and men to pursue careers in film and television production? As of now, the only black people who own their own media are Tyler Perry and Oprah, both of whom regularly employ dark-skinned women. This is a serious problem. Let’s move beyond criticizing society and start creating solutions. I am tired of painting a portrait of a black female victim.

    Also, black men alone are not at fault for perpetuating colorism. We as women have to come together and fight this ignorance. Growing up, my mother often made comments about me being too dark and having a nose that is too broad. My father has never ever criticized physical attributes that I couldn’t change–i.e. skin color and nose size. Additionally, men don’t typically have an issue with my skin color or my nose. Women have to put an end to this discrimination as well.

    I am also tired of people acting as if light-skinned people have a better quality of life due to their skin color. In my honest opinion, MOST light-skinned privilege exists in the black community. To white people, black is black.

    Finally Perspective, I hope you know that you can shelter your biracial daughter from black women but you cannot shelter your biracial daughter from being perceived as a black woman.

    Attractive dark-skinned women don’t complain about getting men’s attention, but they do complain about being called pretty for a dark-skinned girl. Their angst stems from the idiotic thinking that the two traits are mutually exclusive.

  • The Other Jess

    totally agree zelda. only black women are silly enough to continue to look for “black love” – it is DEAD because almost 50% of the needed participants for black love could care less about it. black men are the most colorstruck, whitewashed sellout people in our communities – while i see many black women trying to move past colorism, the men are the mainly the ones promoting it (and encouraging jealousies among women of various shades to fight over them).

    it’s black men who do the majority of promoting white and lighter non-black women, who choose to abandon black families, and are generally the black trash that we need to separate from – actually, black men have already separated from us, so why keep looking to them for validation? they are TRASH people. sorry to be harsh, but they prove it time and time again, from writing books about how much they hate us, to publicly trying to insult and embarrass us, to remaining jealous of any of our successes by telling the world we are worst than other women – simply out of their own jealousy. and yes, i believe black men are angry at black women because a Black American woman and her children are standing up on the world stage with Obama, and they are mad about that – as mad as white racists who hate the Obamas.

    live your lives and stay far away from Black men. the only good black men were from the civil rights generations and they are almost dead , and thus have no influence on our lives.

    Or find a black man like Obama (a non-Black American/foreign Black man) because black American men are just no longer worth it. they will give fake lip service to having concern for you while being busy putting you down. their point? to control you, that’s it. their opinions no longer hold any merit. period. point blank.

  • Pink Lipstick

    No one is saying that every black women is a knock out. The primary issue at hand is that women are being told that they are not attractive BECAUSE of their skin color. Also, you have to admit that SOME black men glorify light skinned women as a whole despite their physical misgivings. Seriously, I know some extra regular and “hit” light skinned girls who are “gassed” because of black men giving them praise where it is not due.

    That is all.

  • lol

    you are so dumb.

    black women love their kids nomatter what, it is black men that leave and abandon their own kids,-even with non-black women. therewas an article here recently about a young woman with a black father and non-black mother who looks more black than mixed and she was talking about the esteem issues she had related to beauty because guess what?

    dad never affirmed her beauty.

    i take it because she didn’t come out looking more like mom or at least have a mixed look.

    it’s black men we can’t stand, not light skin women.

    it’s you and your misogyny.

    it’s you and your colorism .

    it’s you and the sh!t that you spew day in , day out.

    it’s you and your refusal to accept that you have issues.

    it’s you and the fact that any time anything goes wrong you find some other place to lay the blame.

  • Pink Lipstick

    Once again, you are totally misreading black women’s sentiments. In fact, you are even coming across as bitter. Getting with a white man isn’t about having light skinned children. It is about love and acceptance. Every woman has a right to seek both of those things in her life partner no matter how unattractive you deem her to be. Women who typically get rejected by black men for having certain features often get approached by white men. May I please remind you of Whoopi Goldberg, Venus Williams and Alek Wek?

  • http://thedrtywrk.wordpress.com Natsai Alexandria

    Yo this was the Michael Jordan dunk of Clutch comments.

  • The Other Jess

    WOW Simplyme…..in a nutshell, you just stated so well what I think so many of us have been trying to say, including myself. I’ve said it poorly – you’ve said it PERFECTLY.

  • ?!?

    You are the one that sees the victim card being pulled. This is about Denzel Washington’s daughter not being able to get certain roles and very real colorism not fat black women using their skin color about why people don’t find them desirable. That’s what you see because you are trying to dismiss this issue.

    Pink Lipstick said mentioned this, but there are dark skinned women who constantly get told “You’re pretty for a dark skinned girl.” I’m light skinned, but I have seen how colorism affects darker skinned girls. People like you try to brush it off by saying it’s only fat dark skinned women making excuses. I’m not some fat woman speaking out against colorism because I’m trying to make excuses for why people don’t find me desirable. I doubt the majority of the women on this page are overweight dark skinned women who think that they can’t get any attention because of their skin color.

  • Ashley Akunna

    @Perspective and Chilly Road. If you hate this topic so much, why don’t you just leave? I don’t get it. You come on here to argue about an issue that you don’t agree with. Why are you wasting your time? If you are bored, I am in need of interns.

  • Keepitreal

    First off, “mines”? Secondly, WTF kind of man spends his time on a site with the name clutch in it? WTF kind of man frequents a women’s website? WTF kind of man would go through so much trouble to pick on women online? I really hope men like you are a very small minority because this is sad on all fronts. Who hurt you?

  • Ashley Akunna

    I never thought of it like that.

  • Perspective

    @ Lipstick

    I am not missing the point

    1) The topic of black people having their OWN media was a point that I brought up. Please feel free to look at my VERY FIRST COMMENT.

    2)WHITE Society does not discriminate against dark skin PEOPLE. It discriminates against dark skin WOMEN specifically. I don’t need to go through the history Christopher Williams gets stabbed in the hand by Wesley Snipes followed by 2 decades of DARK SKIN HYPERMASCULINITY – which didn’t fair so well for the women when DARK SKIN is being associated with MASCULINE or manly. Truthfully they’ve been doing that since KING KONG – Check out Gale Dines pieces on KING KONG AND THE WHITE WOMEN – which was actually what they named the movie when they played it in Germany underneath the Nazi Party.

    3) Much of what you say – I’m not in disagreement with but I have a problem with certain things like…

    4) Light skin people are more easily excepted by whites. Not standing alone of course but RELATIVE to other blacks YES. Whites are more comfortable with the SOLlEDAD OBRIEN’s

    5) Who said anything about sheltering my biracial daughter from her PERCEIVED blackness? That wasn’t my point. My point was WITH THIS LOGIC that light skin women just get free passes all over the place I might as well have a biracial lighter skinned daughter because ACCORDING to the dark skin black women on this page – REGARDLESS OF HER PERCEIVED BLACKNESS – she will AUTOMATICALLY be the “pretty black girl” (NO MATTER WHAT!)

    Funny how women of the women on this page say “Not all light skin girls are pretty”

    Only to turn around and act like EVERY SINGLE LIGHT SKIN CHICK WHO IS A 4 INSTANTLY BECOMES A 10 BECAUSE SHE IS LIGHT SKIN. Now they’re all pretty because they are light skin.

    I said all that only to make the point that I’m tired of black women’s SELF HATE, SELF LOATHING, AND SELF DEPRECATION.

    I don’t care – HOW my daughter will be perceived, even if she came out dark skin with my HYPOTHETICAL – it will be argued that her features are less black and she’s a white woman dipped in chocolate e.g. K.D. Aubert.

    Also some of you really need to drop the PERCEIVED still as black because as I have stated numerous times on this site these women are BLACK up until men come into the room and these women are being chosen over you or the ultimate slap in the face where they take BIRACIAL Zoe Saldana and now have her playing NINA SIMONE.

    They’re black until they are used against you.

    And pretty for a dark skin girl – comes from the idea that the “pretty girls” are the ones that aren’t that dark (MIXED) because

    A) they are not represented in mainstream (WHITE MEDIA) – why would they be?

    B) ALSO – the expectation that most dark skin women are fat or overweight.

    I have seen this theme of dark skin being synonymous with overweight.

    Oh I stretch the truth you say.

    Think off the top of your head how many LIGHT SKIN FAT GIRLS ARE IN THE MEDIA.

    Now think about how many are FAT AND DARK SKIN.

    That’s the joke to everybody. Notice the 2012 Ole Miss Homecoming queen was big and dark skin – not big and light skin – and SO MANY dark skin women actually thought that beauty standards were changing when that was done intentionally as a dis to MOCK black women.

    But you know soon as you point that out your a hater.

    Obama wins – same white students out there rioting in the streets. IT WAS A DIS! Not glass ceiling shattering.

  • Fantastico

    @PB I see what you are saying.

  • Perspective

    Here’s my thing – So what!? If a dude is color struck – move on! Why are you paying attention to him – ESPECIALLY if he has physical misgivings AND you just said that you haven’t really had a problem with black men having an issue with your skin color

    This is what I mean when I talk about black women FOCUSING ON THE NEGATIVE – its their favorite past time.

    10 guys in a room – all of them with black women – who does the black woman focus on THE ONE WITH THE WHITE WOMAN.

    90% of black men marry black women 5% marry white women

    Where do black women focus – THE 1% OF THE 5% THE ATHLETES!

    You all take too many queues from mainstream WHITE media and then you run back to black men CRYING about it.

  • Fantastico

    @ Ashley Thank you for your post! WHY do people continue to ignore the negative effects of colorism? Someone explain this to me. People keep side stepping the issue.

  • Fantastico

    +1 Very true

  • Perspective

    @The Other Jess

    (Eyes roll)

    “black men are the most colorstruck, whitewashed sellout people in our communities – while i see many black women trying to move past colorism, the men are the mainly the ones promoting it (and encouraging jealousies among women of various shades to fight over them).”

    “Or find a black man like Obama (a non-Black American/foreign Black man) because black American men are just no longer worth it.”

    Keep in mind that other races of men are too busy maintaing their patriarchal communities and valuing their women above all other women because their women make them and subscribe to a patriarchal community which incentivizes men to build and pass on their legacies to their children that they have with their women – not this backwards ass crap called the black community that we have now. 40 years of matriarchy and all black women want to do is blame black men. Insane.

    I love how black women just exonerate themselves from any of the whoas of the black community and place themselves on this THRONE of excellence.

    Let me grab another comment that I saw today in discussing the issues between black men and women.

    The COMMENT:

    “It appears that bw have a subconscious desire to prove themselves to wm. Not necessarily date them, or mate with them, but to earn their admiration. That admiration that propels wm to make ww the magazine centerfolds, the “pretty one” on all the commercials, promoted over all other races in the media.

    The bw wants that admiration from the wm, and she has no ambition to strengthen the black community. In order to stand out and be identifiable (from the black man), she must compete with him (instead of following his program). This creates a matriarchy, and destroys the black man/black woman unity.

    Because the black woman is blinded by her selfish ambitions (rooted in low self esteem), she doesn’t really desire black male leadership, because she feels that his building, his strength, and focus on the community will not ultimately propel her to society’s front page (magazine, media and adoration). She instead wants to prove to the wm, that she is better than the black man, and if she is the dominant species of her race (a do-it-all superwoman), the majority will promote her and reward her for her triumphs (self-made, did it own her own, philosophy).

    BW are more prone to accept a man making less than them, in order to buy his manhood (for cheap) to elevate her superwoman-hood. The “superwoman-hood” in her eyes will put her in the white male’s arena to be promoted. The bm would simply be getting in her way, by taking control of the household and exerting his true leadership.”

    What’s funny about the super woman statement is that I know black women who really think that being STRONG AND INDEPENDENT is something that is going to be valued by other races of men. Strong and independent women come from broken communities. That mindset serves no purpose over there. A white man (THE CONTROLLER OF THE WORLD) is not going to collectively elevate and value black women like that nor are BW going to be able to RUN THINGS over there as they do in the black community. All these matriarchal weak ass black men might be easy to push over but if you think you are FENCE JUMPING with that matriarchal crap over to other racial groups of men – you got another thing coming.

  • Fantastico

    @hmmmmm I see what you are saying, but don’t negate the insights of black women on this topic or anything else. You POV is part of the picture not all of it.

  • Perspective

    Just so you know ad homs and character assassinations don’t work with me

  • YiaYia

    Well stated, ladies!! ^^^^^

  • Fantastico

    @?!? Thank you for pointing out this pattern. +100

  • Fantastico

    Agreed. Bravo ladies!

  • Pink Lipstick

    @ Perspective,

    “WHITE Society does not discriminate against dark skin PEOPLE. It discriminates against dark skin WOMEN specifically. I don’t need to go through the history Christopher Williams gets stabbed in the hand by Wesley Snipes followed by 2 decades of DARK SKIN HYPERMASCULINITY – which didn’t fair so well for the women when DARK SKIN is being associated with MASCULINE or manly. Truthfully they’ve been doing that since KING KONG – Check out Gale Dines pieces on KING KONG AND THE WHITE WOMEN – which was actually what they named the movie when they played it in Germany underneath the Nazi Party.”

    We could go back and forth about this, but I think I will spare myself the trouble. I swear, I have never met a man who wanted to turn everything into a beauty contest even for men. Hypermasculinity may make dark skin men more sexually appealing to SOME women but that does not mean that they do not get discriminated against. Do you really think that Wesley Snipes would get hired over Terrance Howard for a corporate job? Additionally, may I remind you that the first black president, senator, supreme court judge and governor were all light skinned males: Barack Obama, Hiram Revels, Thurgood Marshall, and Lawrence Douglas Wilder. Additionally, black CEOs of power financial corporations tend to be light- skinned males: Ken Chanault (American Express), and Dick Parsons (Citigroup). By the way, men being sexually desirable is absolutely useless in a capitalist society.

    I also don’t buy the whole dark skin being associated with masculinity argument. If this was the case, no dark-skinned black women would be getting any play, and we all no that that is not the case. Moreover, do not act as if there is any shortage of women vying for the attention of attractive light skin men.

    Most people look to the amount of muscle mass a woman has to determine physical masculinity. You cannot argue that someone would say that a white female body builder is more masculine than Kenya Moore. Even if we compare two dark skinned females. i.e. kenya moore and serena williams, most people would say that serena williams is more masculine, not because she is less attractive per say but because she has more muscle.

    “I don’t care – HOW my daughter will be perceived, even if she came out dark skin with my HYPOTHETICAL – it will be argued that her features are less black and she’s a white woman dipped in chocolate e.g. K.D. Aubert.”

    I’m sorry to disappoint you but this is not always the case. I know plenty of mixed girls who surprised me when I learned that one of their parents are not black. Some of them have incredibly kinky hair and broad noses. I see that you have a narrow minded view of what mixed people look like. Maybe you have also fallen victim to the claim that all mixed people look a certain way or have certain features. From the way that you talk about about black women, I suggest that you don’t have any children at all–male or female.

  • Pink Lipstick

    Lol. But they work when you discuss black women’s faults??

  • WhatIThink

    LOL! Talk about missing the point. Who controls hollywood? White folks. Who controls America? White folks.

    The problem is white folks created this whole social and economic system based on race and colorism is all part of the system. This goes for not just the United States but all over the Americas and anywhere else that was colonized by Europeans.

    There should be no argument that as black folks living in a culture dominated by Europeans you are going to face issues of colorism. If for nothing else, because white European features are the ideal in a society dominated by Europeans economically and socially.

    I mean all of this started on the plantations with house slaves who were most often the mixed offspring of the slave master. And continued with the creole, mulatto and octaroons who tried hard to pass the brown bag test and be white.

    So at this point, it shouldn’t even be a question that America has a color complex.

    Only dummies would sit there and argue about it.

    And the reason why is because foolish black folks of all complexions and backgrounds believe they are “free” now, even with a biracial president.

    But honestly, in what material sense have black people moved forwards in the last 10 years? And what makes you so confident things will get better in the next 10?

    Which means if they don’t get better, what do black folks do then?

  • Pink Lipstick

    @ perspective

    You got a little sidetracked in your comment so I thought I’d restate the primary issue:

    No one is saying that every black women is a knock out. The primary issue at hand is that women are being told that they are not attractive BECAUSE of their skin color.

    PERIOD.

  • Mina

    @Perspective, your comment is hella confusing. But yes unfortunately that is how our society works. I’m mixed but still seen as a black woman. Beyonce is mixed but still seen as a black woman, Thandie Newton, Melanie B, Zoe Saldana, Halle Berry, Kat Graham, etc, etc are still seen as black women although they are half white.

    Yes a black man as well as an Asian man, Indian, Latino, etc can produce a child that is still the same race as them. However Latino and Indian men can produce children who can pass as white as their racial admixture varies in percentages. There is no such thing as being 100% Latino or Dravidian because Indian people are also mixed up as well. You can say black women are unnecessary to producing black children but who cares. I know with my future spouse, they will be all mixed up like me but still seen as black as well. But maybe you want to outmix the black out of your children but it’s not likely to happen unless you’re 1/4th or 1/8th black. If you really feel that bad about your race, maybe you should become an Egyptian citizen or some kind of European citizen, raise your children up there, then come to America where the naturalization law will tell you your children are Caucasian. You however still won’t be and if your children are still seen as being a brown skinned minority, they will still be subjected to racism and discrimination based on their hair, skin, and racial heritage.

    And Idk or care what “brothers” are saying. I’m not a male nor do I relate to black men or men of other races in the first place so I don’t understand or see your perspective as something I should relate to.

  • WhatIThink

    My point being that at some point you should be in a position to make your own movies and not have to worry about white folks and color prejudice. And before anyone says that black folks cant make money off movies, think about how many black folks there are in not only the United States, but across the Americas and Caribbean. That is a huge market. And lets not forget Africa itself.

  • zelda

    @Perspective

    i never call people idiots but with you i have to. black women running to wm are not running over there to control sh!t , they are doing it because they are tired of doing it alone!!!!

    we need and want strong men too!

    we want responsible men who will do what men are supposed to do!

    black men do not and are always complaining about “the man has his foot on my throat”

    well remove it then!

    you bm are so content being the ww’s “big black d!ck” that you won’t lift yourselves up! you guys are ok with having a woman take care of you!

    other men are so motivated and hungry for a piece of the pie but as long as you are regarded as having the biggest
    d!ck you are satisfied!

    how pathetic!

    uuuuuuuuuuuugh!

  • Mina

    Yes they do, but it’s never a big issue like black women make it. It’s usually a topic that’s ugly and swept under the rug unless it seriously impacts the community in some kind of way. But normally, it’s not talked about often. Pale skin is the beauty ideal in Asia so many use skin bleaching products to achieve the look. Not many Asian women praise or want dark skin unless they’re going for the whole gyaru, ganguro, yamaba, AA culture thing. There are black Hispanic women who some classify themselves as black and those who are black but see themselves as being white and don’t relate or want to relate to black women.

    There are also dark skinned Mexicans and Latinas too who are also subjected to colorism based on whether or not they look too Native. Because if you look and act Native or you are a Native Indigenous person in Mexico, you’re looked at as dirt, poor, crap. Indigenous peoples are seen as a problem all over Latin America. That’s why many Mestizos don’t claim or like to claim that they’re part Native because it’s so taboo. No one wants to be associated by negative stereotypes.

  • Mina

    @Perspective, “I don’t think I’ve ever met a black woman who was dark skin who would ADMIT – that a either she or another dark skin woman WAS NOT ATTRACTIVE.”

    This statement is also confusing. But for black women who have low self-esteem, they would internalize European female beauty standards and look at themselves and other women around them and tell them and themselves that they are unattractive. For women who have matured and seen how foolish it is to pass judgment on other women based on skin color, they can recognize and see those dark skinned women as beautiful women. It takes years and time to fix these issues society as well as our culture passes down to us. No one is immune to the light vs dark battle because light skin women feel inferior in their skin as well as dark skin women and bashing each other might make you feel good then but it’s never going to do or solve any issues to fight stereotypes and generalizations with more negative stereotypes and generalizations.

    I think black skin women are beautiful in any shade and color and not just exclusively to light skin either. You might need to take a long journey to Africa or the Carribeans or somewhere because you clearly have been living under a rock for some umpteen years to miss out on all the beautiful black women standing in your face.

    And it’s kinda sad you’d associate all black men to roll their eyes and think the same way as you in some sad, homogeneous, racial self-loathing way. I already feel bad for some black guys already but this is just too much lol. Idk what to say to you black men who roll their eyes but to keep it moving.

  • Perspective

    @ PB

    and with over 70% of black children being born out of wedlock and raised in single parent households WHO IS THE PARENT.

    The black woman!

    I guess this is where we blame skin complexion complexes and mental issues on the father who was not there.

    Funny how I never hear black men sitting around in circles talking about “OH MY BABY GOT GOOD HAIR” or pinching their child’s nose.

    Ever considered that the boys growing up with the same type of mothers as these girls pick up on that hot mess too and that only adds to why they perhaps don’t want to be with a dark skin girl? Media is the easy scapegoat.

    Unfortunately, black women want to exonerate themselves and not be honest about their own issues

  • Perspective

    @ Lipstick

    “Hypermasculinity may make dark skin men more sexually appealing to SOME women but that does not mean that they do not get discriminated against. Do you really think that Wesley Snipes would get hired over Terrance Howard for a corporate job? ”

    Straw man argument – WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BEAUTY AND VALIDATION IN THE MEDIA.

    We are talking about DESIRABILITY HERE. Lets not play semantics and get it confused. 95% of the comments on this page are about black women being UNDESIRABLE because they are dark skin. As a rule, black men tend not to go through the same thing because DARK SKIN is associated with HYPERMASCULINITY that has been placed on the black man which was a way for whites to try to demonize and animalize the black man as some sort of brute. i.e. “Birth of a Nation”

    This somewhat backfired – but then it re-fired and now you have a whole generation of black men and women who see black men as a sexual object. Black women desire it and black men want to be it. Being DARK SKIN – is very different between the genders, not always, but black men definitely have an easier time because of the HYPERMASCULINITY BALD, DARK SKIN WITH MUSCLES card.

    You are straw manning the argument because we are NOT talking about corporate america NOR – white men accepting black men in corporate America or politics.

    When you get a chance why don’t you tell me how many LIGHT SKIN BLACK MEN have ever been in pornography. Point and case.

    ” If this was the case, no dark-skinned black women would be getting any play, and we all no that that is not the case.”

    Ummm hello!? That’s what they’re only here complaining about SHEEEESH!

    “Moreover, do not act as if there is any shortage of women vying for the attention of attractive light skin men.”

    Which only make these women’s complaints more illegitimate AND – wouldn’t that be evidence that these women don’t like themselves so much that they want to live vicariously through their HOPEFULLY lighter skin baby?! Oh I forget this only applies to black men, according to black women.

    You can try to get around the DARK SKIN = Masculine theory all day it’s pretty self evident.

    BW: “I prefer dark skin men because they’re more manly, light skin dudes don’t look like they can fight or lay the pipe down. He’s TOO PRETTY! Chris Williams was a Pretty Boy not Wesley.”

    Black women are guilty of the very same thing they accuse black men of.

    And to respond to the mixed children statement – THE CHANCES of having a child look less black are HIGH/HIGHER. You can keep the change on the number of mixed kids who take 100% after the black parent.

  • Perspective

    @ Lipstick

    I think that it has become and over used EXCUSE.

    A sort of platitude that a woman is not desired JUST because of her skin color.

    Please direct me to this room full of sexy, beautiful, and attractive black women that black men are THROWING AWAY just because they are dark skin.

    Funny, the black babies just keep on coming regardless of black women’s undesirability.

    As I stated black women’s problem is that they keep taking all their queues about the world from social media.

    When women come with that dark skin stuff and then site athletes with white wives when 75% of the NBA has a black wife but the news only likes to cover those with white wives – that’s when I know this ain’t about things REALLY happening to her as much as it is the way that she has been CONDITIONED to feel about herself – inferior.

    This goes back to my original point about why I don’t want my daughter socializing with the majority of AAW because they are self-hating and deprecating.

    What are they going to Cry white folks into submission to get them to promote the beauty of black women more.

    Why would they do that? That’s not in their best self interest.

    That’s like whites in Africa crying that all they have on TV are African women and white women feel put down because they’re under represented.

    Our problem is we don’t have a true black owned network that promotes fresh new faces of new beautiful black women.

    OWN recycles old women and older women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s

    White media puts out a new white girl face every 18 months starting at 18 to 19 years old.

    Please feel free to name a 19 year old black woman who is promoted even by the little bit of black media that we have.

    Who Amber Riley – like she’s going to help black women’s image in CONTEST with other races of women.

    This dark skin thing has become too much of a crutch for black women. I have seen unattractive black women CONVINCE attractive black women that they were overlooked because they were dark skin.

    So Now its, she’s dark skin – rather than – DUDES actually being intimidated because she is so fine.

    IT DOES HAPPEN. Sorry to bust black women’s bubble but not all black men have to courage to run up on every pretty woman they see.

  • black_feminist

    “People collectively lost their ish about Zoe being cast as Nina Simone, but I didn’t hear boo about people being mad about the white woman writing the screenplay.”

    ???? Where have you been? The fact that the screenplay is written by a white woman has been discussed extensively on various blogs, including this one, and in news media. I think it was covered in a NY times article.

    Also we do not “let” white people tell our stories. They control the industry and have far greater access and resources. We cannot stop them. But we can certainly better support black filmmakers and continue to tell our own stories.

  • Pingback: Denzel Washington And The Difficulties Of Being A Dark Skinned Woman In Hollywood | Praise 103.9

  • Perspective

    @ Lipstick – please direct me to any AD HOM or character assassination I have used in this thread.

    I’ll wait.

  • Perspective

    @ Zelda

    ” they are doing it because they are tired of doing it alone!!!!

    we need and want strong men too!”

    No black women don’t.

    I can tell this by the way they raise their sons, but most notably when it comes to the men that they choose to have children by.

    There are a huge number of black women who PURPOSELY choose men who are beneath them because those men aren’t in the position to dominate and control the situation i.e. the HOUSEHOLD.

    Stupid thing is the same man who can’t run his household is the same type of man that can’t run his community NOR go up against other groups of men who are EXTREMELY patriarchal.

    And black women want to have all the patriarchal benefits WITHOUT actually having a patriarchy.

    Black women do NOT want to be UNDER black men, as they see it, but they expect black men to build, maintain, and protect from a subordinate position.

    Its not equality – because MEN are assigned with all the hard work and manual labor like building and maintaining and men are NOT going to defend and protect what they essentially don’t own!

    That is the black woman’s problem.

    If it was truly a system of EQUALITY – then you shouldn’t be looking to receive all those perks and benefits – BEING PUT ON A PEDESTAL which is based on the SYSTEM of INEQUALITY between white men and white women.

    Black women want to have their CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.

    Not going to happen. This is why you see patriarchal black men fence jumping – looking for more cooperative women. That ish has nothing to do with YOUR DARK SKIN. It has to do with your MENTALITY as black women.

    “you guys are ok with having a woman take care of you!”

    Why wouldn’t they be?! Most were raised by black mothers who purposely had babies with guys who didn’t have the finances to control her or direct his family. All these men saw was female leadership – THEIR MOMS – and now the chickens have come home to roost because they look at black women as EQUALS – “Why do I need to do it when she’s STRONG ENOUGH TO DO IT” then you all wonder why black men aren’t so quick to protect or defend you.

    The attitude is SHE’S A STRONG INDEPENDENT BLACK WOMAN – she can handle it.

    “other men are so motivated and hungry for a piece of the pie ”

    OTHER MEN!!!!! are building and have legacies that they are trying to pass on THROUGH THEIR WOMEN – that their women ALLOW THEM TO DO – and GIVE THEIR MEN OWNERSHIP of the children and follow HIS LEADERSHIP – in what the WHITE MAN is trying to create.

    Black women are off on some matriarchal ish – and expect black men to BUILD FOR THE SAKE OF BUILDING.

    When men can’t pass anything on – why build beyond your own means. You can’t pass it on, and what you create you may not even see to completion AND you have NO HEIRS to continue what you started.

    DAMN – Black women really don’t understand HOW THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK.

    You all think it’s all about being INTRINSICALLY valued like you are something SPECIAL – without a patriarchal community YOU WILL NEVER BE VALUED – that’s for damn sure!

    At this point it doesn’t matter WHERE A BLACK MAN PUTS HIS SEED. You have no more value than any other race of woman. In fact, to a patriarchal black man – they might have more – because AT LEAST – he can have his own PERSONAL HEIR – despite his biracial children not being attached to a community.

    DROPS THE MIC! WALKS OFF THE STAGE.

  • Pink Lipstick

    I will concede to the fact that most black women do practice a double standard by having a preference for dark skinned men. Women cannot complain about black men having a skin color preference only to have a skin color preference of their own. You may think it has to do with hypermasculinity, but I personally believe that it has to do with an affinity for blackness or “black authenticity.” I am not condoning this behavior, but that is my observation. Light-skinned people are often perceived as being less black.

    Also let’s be honest here; no one is turning down Micheal Ealy, Jesse Williams,and Boris Kudjoe. No black woman is going to say “I’m sorry but despite your attractiveness, I will not entertain you because you are a light skinned pretty boy.” Also stop using Wesley Snipes as an example. Most women do not find him physically attractive.

    Also if we are talking about desirability, the discussion of corporate America is very appropriate. In a capitalist society, women desire financial stability. No one is turning down men with money.

    I do not understand why you are bringing porn into this conversation. Women are not the primary consumers of porn. I don’t know why there are more dark skinned porn stars. You should ask your peers why you all prefer to watch dark-skinned men having sex.

    Also say what you want about biracial children. I know that mixed children with certain features are promoted in the media but they do not always turn out that way.

  • Perspective

    Mina’s comment – very intelligent comment and response

  • Chillyroad

    Does this mean that more black women like whoopi Venus and Alek will play damsels in distress in the movies? Will be on GQ or Maxim? Rhianna is currently on the cover of GQ.

  • Perspective

    “but I personally believe that it has to do with an affinity for blackness or “black authenticity.”

    I’ll tell you how it’s not about affinity towards blackness because if you go back dark skin black men used to catch hell before 1993. Go back and look at all the light skin dudes used in videos. Light skin black men always had the shine – Janet Jackson – “AGAIN”

    Milli Vanilli, Chico Debarge bla bla bla

    It wasn’t until GANGSTA rap where dark skin black men came into vogue – Think Treach Naughty by Nature. The Mr. Marcus types and even the Omar Epps. Back in the 80s these guys were never IN.

    Black women basically have the same issue as white girls have which is they take their queues from the media.

    When you are a brown skin women its very easy for you to claim RACIAL LOYALTY or BLACK AFFINITY – who’s going to question that.

    But what black women are never willing to face is that dark skin black men were PROMOTED TO THEM.

    Many light skin men of that era got thrown off the black bus. Especially after Malcolm X came out and everyone was on the pro black tip for a hot minute – sistas with box braids and all that. Black women just never admit when they are influenced EQUALLY by the media.

    If black men suddenly started preferring black women across the board to the point that these complaints from black women would stop due to over the top media promotion of black women – if black suddenly said it was because they were racially loyal, its not as if black women would just forget about the 2000s and how they FELT.

    They’d be like please – YOU ONLY LIKE US BECAUSE WE ARE WHAT’S PROMOTED AND IN NOW – and that’s what happened with dark skin black men.

    “Also let’s be honest here; no one is turning down Micheal Ealy, Jesse Williams,and Boris Kudjoe. No black woman is going to say “I’m sorry but despite your attractiveness, I will not entertain you because you are a light skinned pretty boy.” Also stop using Wesley Snipes as an example. Most women do not find him physically attractive”

    I never said that black women were turning down THOSE MEN – but what I’m saying is they can’t have their cake and eat it too. Dig those guys but complain about black men digging the Halle’s of the world. Also keep in mind that there are different types of women – some just like black men, others it has more to do with the media. I know women who have openly admitted that their taste changed with the culture and media promotion of dark black men. There are women who just aren’t into light skin men because they see them as TOO PRETTY. You also have women who don’t want a man perceived as prettier than she, then you have the I want light babies girls, and then you have the just into light skin guys girls.

    Also – Wesley Snipes had black women into him in his hay day – New Jack City. He’s old NOW.

    “In a capitalist society, women desire financial stability. No one is turning down men with money.”

    DEAD WRONG – especially when it comes to (at least half) the black female population because men with MONEY are IN CONTROL and black women don’t like that. You can’t be the strong independent woman when your man has everything covered.

    Black women have drawn themselves this role of being the MATRIARCHY. They will walk into a messed up situation head first in order to get that MATRIARCH BADGE.

    OMG – the point about porn is that DARK SKIN MEN ARE PROMOTED AS HYPERMASCULINE SEX OBJECTS STUDS.

    Hence the absence of light skin black men in porn.

    White men are the biggest consumers of IR porn – for a whole host of sick reasons.

  • isolde3

    “DROPS THE MIC! WALKS OFF THE STAGE.”

    @Perspective

    Oh, who are you kidding? You’ll be back. Seriously though, what would you do if you couldn’t punch your troll clock on this site? I mean, it’s becoming painfully obvious that you don’t seem to have anything better to do with your time than spam this black women’s web space despite the fact that you’re rhetoric is clearly unwanted, and you continuously make statements about being tired of black women’s complaining and how you don’t want you and yours’ associating with black women, all the while posting fruitless diatribes in this space where black women congregate.

    One can only imagine how truly ignored you are offline, since you have to keep resorting to this. Perhaps a new hobby is in order, or maybe you might want to cultivate some new skills to acquire a better job (if you are in fact employed), one where people will actually listen to you off the internet. That way, you can develop a sense of importance in real life rather than the imaginary relevance you have here.

    http://i44.tinypic.com/2mw7a68.jpg

  • Chillyroad

    The same white men who don’t think you are worth saving in movies is going to save you from “de evil black man?”

    Good luck with that.

  • Chillyroad

    @simplyme

    “…and you do realize the that the more you comment, the more women are unchecking the Black/African American check box from their eharmony profiles as we speak… ”

    Women who date online are pariahs. Not sure if anyone should feel slighted by having been rejected by them.

  • Mina

    @Perspective

    Thank you :D

  • Do better

    But why are you here when all of the women you seem to be trying to reach have stated nicely and not so nicely that they do NOT care about your opinions or your “perspective”? I do not understand from a psychological point of view why you continue to post, excuse me, spam here when your comments are unwanted. At this point I’m convinced it’s for your own catharsis, it cannot possibly be because you think any black woman who reads this comment section is going to have an epiphany and suddenly agree with your extreme and outlandish points. Your words mean nothing, you’re not affecting anything and no one cares. Let the dark skin “pity party” as you call it continue.

    FWIW I am biracial but your posts just annoy the F out of me.

  • simplyme

    @chillyroad

    The dating site thing is irrelevant… but if its true that 25% of new relationships are being formed online I highly doubt the only people that utilize them are “pariahs”.

    What I was saying is that some women (those he refers to in his comment) are unchecking that box in their hearts and minds online and offline because of people like him. Also, I just wanted to be clear that I’m not on that “only date other races” train at all. Obviously, not all Black men are the same. I realize douche bags and sensible people come in all colors….but the more comments of his I read speaking for Black men….the more even I thought “Whoa… what can I do to avoid men like this at all costs?” “I wonder if xxxx thinks likes this too…” Its not healthy. I just find it a little amusing and kind of sad that he’s probably contributing to very beliefs some Black women have that he disdains so much. The real irony…

  • http://gravatar.com/dginki Kim

    You are soooo wrong. I am an OBGYN and I have heard black men in interracial relationships comment on their child’s “good hair”. Just the other day, I had to do a double take because some father actually said it in front of me. LOL!

  • i.mean.really

    Well 50 pages into a google search I couldn’t find any articles about the screenwriter of the Nina Simone movie. I did find 50 pages of stories about Zoe being cast. If it was in the NYT I missed it… I don’t get my news from Rupert Murdoch.

    And yes, we do let them tell our stories. You know how? People like Denzel Washington, who has over 30 years of acting experience, lament the lack of roles for people of color. He’s directed 2 movies and produced 7. He’s got 52 movies credited to him as an actor. Samuel L Jackson is the most bankable film star in history. He’s credited with acting in 152 movies and he produced 7. Why aren’t guys like this producing and directing films with black/dark skinned actors? They have the kind of money and clout that could change the industry.

    You know what Kim Fields and Malcolm Jamal Warner did when they stopped being in front of the camera? They got behind it.

  • templet00

    @Perspective–
    You constantly desperately insert yourself into blogs & spaces for black women. Although, you insist that you hate black women, that you prefer nonblack women & intend to partner with a nonblack woman.
    There’s something very sad about your behavior. Really you should be WINNING. But, judging by your very emotional rants, you must be a deeply lacking & insecure guy. I encourage you to frequent spaces for whites or other nonblacks. Considering your obsessively stated objectives & hardships, you would be far less bitter & angry in those spaces. Emotionally & psychologically you seem to be hanging by a thread. Stop victimizing yourself by coming to black womens’ spaces. Go where you’ll be wanted & appreciated.
    And good luck with that.

  • wepo1

    The black woman stay sensitive about little things that can be controlled if they would stop buying into being like white women in the first place!

    The white media will never accept a black women who is not close to white because it’s their media!

  • Sonti

    Simplyme- you are Simply FABULOUS. And in the words of our ancestors “You da’ bomb diggity!”

  • Chillyroad

    And what do black women do when white people don’t accept her…blame black men. That’s the real beef black women have with black men. Black men didn’t do for them what the white man did for white women. Black women in their futile attempt to dethrone white women. Dam shame how much energy black women spend agonising over not being white women. I should have prefaced my comments by saying this only a subset of black women that do this… The college educated middle class smarter and holier than thou black woman. Sistas in the hood ain’t talking about this. Maybe because they have real issues. A brother on Clutch once referred to them as the buffer class of black woman. They exist in this pitiful world of being better than most black women but not good enough to be with the white women.

  • B

    Being a light-skin black person ( two black parents) and Biracial are NOT the SAME.

  • Mary

    Halle Berry is a black woman. Yes, she is biracial, just like Frederick Douglass. Can we please stop pretending that most African-Americans don’t have some white or other non-black ancestry? Berry is the same shade as Kerry Washington or Jesse Jackson! W.E.B. Dubois was lighter skinned. Do we strike him from rolls of black Americans?

    That said, yes, colorism exists and is evil. We see it all the time in the media and in life. It should be denounced and crushed.

  • Mary

    A light-skinned black person has white ancestry. In fact, MAJORITY of all African-Americans have white ancestry regardless of skin color.

  • B

    Please. Having a white primary parent is NOT the same as having some mixture somewhere down the line that you probably cant even name. If you can’t name it stop trying to claim it. That’s goes for ” I got Indian in my family “too.

  • Ginny Frawley

    Well Will Smith was personally picked by Obama to play him

  • Ashley

    Let’s forget about black men for a second. I dont even know why they are being discussed, because the video is about Hollywood’s acceptance of dark skinned women. What about colorism in the homes? Are we going to pretend this doesn’t exist either? Oprah has talked about the preferential treatment her lighter relatives received. Did you all hear about Jackie and Doug Christie’s light skinned daughter talking about how her dark skinned sister was abused by her own mother because of her dark skin? Or are we making this up Perspective?

  • Pingback: Weekly Feminist Reader

  • Ms. Information

    @ SMH you are too funny…honestly I went for the hip and did not get to see the context….my mom made the same point that you made when we spoke about it…I stand corrected ;).

  • Bump Mediocrity

    Halle, Alicia, Beyonce, Rihanna, Ashanti, Kimora, Jada, Rita Ora, Raven Simone, Laura London, Amber Rose, Jordin Sparks, Mariah, Solange, Keisha Cole, Tia & Tamara, Cassie…OMG the list goes on. Why are we even defending this point? Light skin privilege has been the reality of black women since the days of Lena Horne and before that octoroons and quadroons. Stop playin.

    And don’t even get me started on Kim K. A quasi white woman getting endless props for purchasing a black woman’s rear end.

    Why do you think black women love Michelle Obama so much? Not only is she dynamic: beautiful, smart, sexy, attractive, educated and full of substance but she’s not your typical light skin trophy wife and we all know Barack get’s props for that!!!!!

    Y’all know good and damn well these woman (while I love them all) are shoved down our throats as the measurement stick of black woman’s beauty. They all benefit but yet there’s a hush over Jerusalem and always will be cause they collect checks from their privilege.

    There’s nothing worse than someone telling you to “get over” being consistently invalidated. And that always seems to be the case when the “color privilege” conversation comes up. People want to play pretend and brothers of money, power & status continue to cash in their “upgrades.”

    Things have actually gotten better cause the late 90′s and early 2000′s were downright melanin deprived. We now have Michelle O, Kerry, Naomi Harris, June Ambrose, Adepero Oduye, Taraji, Megan Good, Joan Smalls, Naomi Campbell, Jordan Dunn, Jennifer Hudson, women who aren’t racially ambiguous…just black and beautiful.

  • Tara

    @ Bout Dat Love

    God bless you.
    You have said it all.

  • http://capblackhood.blogspot.com/ Cap Black, The Hood Conservative

    Denzel Washington told the truth & thank God he did! Skin color bias, by both Black & White discriminators, is the sick legacy of a mindset we simply must outgrow. This Jim Crow vintage thinking it part of the outmoded baggage we MUST culturally delete to become healthy individuals.

  • Tara

    Amen Princess Di.

    Imagine,drop black men. Really

    The Other Jess

    You do realize that any son you have will be part black and seen as such thanks to the madness that is the one drop rule.

    And it will only be a matter of time before he picks up on those strong anti black man vibes.
    And how do you think he will feel?
    I think you need a long hard think about what you have just written above.

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