A lot of fuss is made about black women and why we collectively (per society and possibly the Washington Post) can’t find a man. It’s a heavily skewed statistic/topic/news story that usually enrages (or terrifies) more than it informs.

But it’s always implied that somehow – for some reason – black women aren’t marriageable, ignoring the other side that black men aren’t exactly rolling in brides either. (The most quoted stat – that’s not a made up one is that 42 percent of black women between ages 25 and 34 are single, but black men in the same age range are single as well at 43 percent).

It seems nobody these days is getting married (until much later when they’re financially more stable). Yet all the impetus is put on women because … ahem … there’s no “Groom”  magazine. Only Bride.

But how much is the desire for marriage in women, particularly black women, about what is expected of us – by our families and society – versus what we actually want and have?

According to these days, most black men (and women) aren’t getting married until they’re at least 30, on average. I have a friend who is black and a man and is very unmarried, never married in fact. Statistically, he is part of that group of black men who, at a rate of approximately 20 percent, have never married and are in their 40s.

So I – after nailing him down from a bit of incessant squirming – got him to speak frankly about why, at 40, he was still indifferent over when there would ever be a “Mrs. Indifferent.”

For him, it all boiled down to “marriage sounds nice, but it’s not necessary.”

“You can live a happy life without being married,” he said. “Do you need to go to the prom in order to have a successful high school career? Does that invalidate your time in high school? I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be married in order to live a full life. If you can (live a full life and get married), that’s great. If not, you’ll be all right. I don’t see why you have to do it.”

“I found out there are people who are married and are no longer married, but it didn’t make their life any different, better or worse necessarily. It’s not the end all be all of your life. You can still do plenty of things if you’re married or not. I’m not down on marriage. I’m not pro-marriage. If I did it, I feel like I would be doing it for my wife rather than having a desire for some priest and piece of paper saying ‘we’re married.’”

My friend, who is the child of divorce (for those playing at home), said there was nothing specifically that made him feel this way. He’d always been one to question the status quo, authority, and why we do the things we do. He acknowledges that his life would more than likely be different if he settled down, but he also demonstrates that in pretty stoic and methodical answers like, “there would be more decision to make based on the group on what’s best for the group organism. Kind of like the Borg,” referencing the assimilation obsessed alien race from Star Trek Next Generation.

My friend said he once got close to possibly proposing to an ex-girlfriend more than eight years ago, but ultimately it didn’t work out because “we wanted different things.” Namely, at the time he was financially in a more precarious place and she couldn’t handle that. She told him he needed to “make more money.”

He admits that money was a defining factor in that relationship, but that he doesn’t think that whether or not he’s financially stable has much to do with whether or not he’s married. It’s more about how he hasn’t found anyone since that he’d consider getting married to. Mostly because he believes marriage is intrinsically tied to romantic love – not the old bonds of yore when marriage was primarily about property, community ties, and having children.

“The concept of love is a recent invention. Before that it was all about community and property the cohabitation of families and the building of them. Why should I have to conform if I haven’t found that person that I love?” he said.

My friend argued that women may be more motivated for marriage simply because it’s what is expected of them by society – that women are conditioned for it from an early age.

Plus, that whole baby-making window every woman faces.

“They have biological imperatives. They’re told almost from birth through toys that they buy. They’re almost conditioned that that’s the ‘be all, end all’ through everything,” he said.

When confronted with the notion though that some issues the African-American community struggles with could be solved through stronger marriages leading to stronger families he was somewhat indifferent and skeptical about the push in looking for causation between the decline in marriage rate and things like out-of-wedlock births and crime. He wondered how people could discount factors like poverty, the larger impact of desegregation and re-segregation in our society, the prison industrial complex, shifts from a manufacturing based economy to a service and white collar-based one, systematic racism, the influence of various government programs (or lack thereof), and societal shifts that took marriage from being the expected, family building norm, to something purely based on romantic love and attraction.

But really though, I said to him, “You’re 40, and you’re not married. It’s as simple as I just haven’t met the right woman? That’s it?”

“I treat it like sex,” he said of marriage. “I don’t necessarily want to have sex with just anybody.”

No point in just doing it for the sake of doing it, he supposes. One must seriously have a reason. For him, it’s love. Myself, I’m also unmarried, and I’d have to say – if I honestly asked myself why I’m not – it has a lot to do with me, my own struggles/fears about relationships, and my overall commitment to my life-long dream of being a writer that took priority over a lot of other things, including settling down and looking for a mate.

If you’re part of that over 30 statistic ambivalent about making that walk down the aisle, what’s made you look into the marital abyss and blink?

 

  • Anthony

    That dude sounds more nerdy than the average brother, and he might just be temperamentally more suited to bachelorhood. He may also be prime white woman material too. Just sayin’ !

    As a man, I will say that the idea that men have forever to have children is overblown. First, men do suffer from fertility challenges like prostate cancer which is very common among black men. Second, as an older father with young kids, I can say that you do not want to be too old running behind some babies! I already tease my daughters that they better chose their boyfriends and husbands wisely because I will be too old to tangle with some young man!

  • http://gravatar.com/lovegiraffes onegirl

    To answer your question simply; the loss of my mother. I would have loved to have her see me walk down the aisle. Now, I feel like ‘meh.’ I wish she had told me when I was younger that I should be serious about looking for a mate (I’m 38). Perhaps then, she would have seen me looking gorgeous in white. Now that I’m in a serious relationship, I just don’t seem to care as much. Is that sad?

  • Bev

    My step-father had his last child at 65. Depends on a man’s health, he has plenty of time. I’ve also heard of some men fathering children as late as age 80.

  • Anthony

    All sorts of things can happen. It doesn’t mean they are likely or wise. I think it makes sense for a man to have his kids by 45 or no later than 50, so he can increase his odds of being around and healthy enough to interact with them.

  • Yvette

    I like the way your friend thinks, is he single lol? (seriously)

  • Cocochanel

    The man above just doesn’t want to be married which is fine. As long as he states that to women who he is dating..he should feel free to live his life as he sees fit. I don’t know any brothas that really want to have their first child by 40 or any women..mainly just because at that age who really wants to be changing diapers and running after some little one???

    My motto is live and let live! Find someone who agrees with your lifestyle and go for it…

  • http://halloftheblackdragon.com Greg Dragon

    Excellent article and he echoes much of what many of us older black nerds feel about the institute of marriage in our modern information age.

    Many men do see marriage as more of a reward or gift for their women versus “the right thing to do” and others see it as the final step in a wonderful romance. The ex-girlfriend telling him he needs to make more money sounds about right – heh – but that’s a discussion for another day.

    I’m glad you got one of the silent good guys to actually give you some feedback for your article. Good stuff indeed.

  • Bev

    45 is pushing it .

  • T.

    Mr. Indifferent gets 10 points from me for the Borg reference!

    I am not particularly concerned about getting married, one way or the other. I’m not opposed to it, nor am I seeking after it. Like the author’s friend, I don’t see that there’s any point in doing it just for the sake of doing it. If I do get married at some point in time I would consider that a good thing, not because being married is inherently good and something to aim for, but because it would mean that I have found a companion whom I love and respect and whose company I enjoy and who I’d want to be with for the rest of our lives, and with whom the feeling is mutual.

    Interestingly, most of my family members who press me about whether I will get married don’t phrase it in terms of love and partnership; they act as if marriage (and possibly kids) is the goal in and of itself, and love is over-rated.

    The difference between their perspective and mine is that I think (when I think about it at all) that it would be great for me to find someone with whom I share so much love, care, respect and joy that we want to marry each other, and we’re willing to experience together the challenges and the rewards that involves, whereas my family talks about it as if the important thing is just to be married, because they seem to think that being single is a problem.

  • Baker

    Older men need to think carefully before deciding to have children. It does present potential health risks. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/health/fathers-age-is-linked-to-risk-of-autism-and-schizophrenia.html

  • https://twitter.com/TheKMichel K. Michel

    I think his first marriage proposal not working out is what’s caused your friend to have the stance that he has now. I can’t even imagine how devastating that would feel. It’s not like a regular rejection that can be glossed over as a non-factor. Here’s a person that he knew has been tried and tested and felt safe enough with as a man to pop the question to. She happened to answer “no” and I assume the relationship didn’t last past that.

    After something like this, he should definitely consider some therapy sessions just to find closure and clear his head (if he hasn’t done so already). Even if he doesn’t feel any different after what happened back then, that particular situation changes a man and how he looks at relationships.

    And who’s to say that the number of unmarried African-American men that we see now haven’t tried to marry the “girl of their dreams”; women that they were indeed in relationships with? A lot of things have to go right in order for a marriage to take place. It’s not as simple as a man just asking.

  • Real Talk

    The biggest problem with black marriage was mentioned in the article but not as a major issue or an issue at all. Waiting until you’re over 30 to get married. For black women who want to get married you’re putting yourself at a major disadvantage. You are no longer at what men consider your physical peak/most attractive and you’ve pretty much eliminated men between 22 to 27 who might be marriage minded. And if you haven’t taken really really good care of yourself you’ve also eliminated some men your own age. Simply, you now have less men options. That’s huge! All things equal a younger educated man has less woman experience and options than a man in his 30′s who takes care of himself. A professional man in his thirties has women options from 20′s to 40′s. Trying to get a confidant, professionally and financially successful black man to want to marry you is going to be very difficult. After his 20′s, maybe doing a lot of chasing, he’s now become the catch……. and he knows it. His criteria for wife material has risen. That guy you could have gotten at 25 doesn’t want you at 35. Who’s fault is that? Secondly, I’m assuming were talking about educated young adults. These dudes don’t want a woman with kids. They’ll hit it, but you can forget a ring, especially if he doesn’t have any kids. Thirdly, there are a lot of accomplished, highly educated young black women with great personalities walking around overweight and fat. who are on this “you’ve just have to take me as I am” nonsense. No he doesn’t. Young professional men, as a group, (of any race) are not going to marry a fat overweight black woman. They are just not going to do it. I go to the gym and I see tons of accomplished women of other races with degrees bussing arse trying to stay in shape. Why? The simplest answer is because their men demand it for a ring. Fourth, on average, from my experience sexually; out of 10 women 3 are lose, 4 are average and 3 are very tight. If she’s lose and the man has difficulty getting off, it’s just not going to work especially if he’s been with women who were wet and very tight. If the woman is average, it can work if everything else in the relationship is good.

    Most black women complaints are fallacies. The truth is average to attractive black women who are YOUNG (under 30), friendly, educated, takes care of themselves and keep their weight down don’t have a problem getting a decent working man. Go to any young black professional event and watch. I guarantee you there is some brother(s) chasing. She just needs to pick the guy who is willing to make a commitment to her (ie marriage) and not the ones who are just fun/good looking who will be gone tomorrow. Stop dating/chasing men who don’t want you. Settling’ is dependent on having actual and current marriage OPTIONS. If you don’t, then you’re not ‘settling’, you’re facing your reality. A lot of the woman complaints are from over 30, overweight, baby mammas many with other issues …. attitude, education ect.. If you want to get married, find your husband while you’re still young at your physical peak/most attractive to men and have the most (man) options. You’ll win every time.

  • T.

    The final step makes it sound like marriage is a death knell for the wonderful romance -like, once you get marriage, romance is over!

    May I suggest “the next step in a wonderful romance” as an alternative phrasing?

  • CJ

    I never wanted to get married and have children, but being born in a traditional Southern family, it was something I thought I “had” to do. It wasn’t until I was older that I realized I had a choice.

    I am 38 year old woman, and what I want most is a companion, someone to share life experiences with, and I don’t need marriage for that.

  • isolde3

    First, I would like to know if any of these unmarried men friends referred to in the article have children? Was that fact alluded to, and I just missed it?

    Second, if a woman wants to marry and feels like the intra-racial pool of marriage minded men is shallow, then she needs to look elsewhere to improve her odds, simple as that.

    Third, there was a lot that I agreed with in this piece, not just the part about the societal onus placed on women to marry (which we kind of already know), but I also agreed with what the one man was saying about not discounting extraneous variables contributing to crime and dysfunction in the black community. Poverty is the cause of most of societal ills. Because of the switch from a manufacturing based economy to a knowledge and service based economy, kids who come from homes where their parents invest heavily into them are the ones most likely to thrive, regardless of whether or not the parents are married or even heterosexual. A lot of articles are coming out about kids thriving in homes headed by lesbians, and that has to do with their socio-economic status and how many lesbian couples are planning their families and investing resources into their children, not marriage in the hetero-normative sense.

    Do I think marriage is a way of building wealth. Of course I do. If you ask me whether or not I think inclining marriage rates would go a long way in improving the plight of the black community, then I would say, probably, because I’m in favor of anything that would make parents more responsible for their children. If one of the mechanisms to go about achieving that is through marriage, then so be it. Ultimately what I would like to see are children raised to be self sufficient and competitive in the global marketplace. I would like to see black women who aren’t stigmatized for being independent and self sufficient, particularly if the men in this article are indicative of a larger trend of black men who aren’t down with raising families or building communities.

  • Anthony

    Of course, the prettiest and most accomplished young women will have the most options. The same will be true of the most handsome and accomplished men.

  • Anthony

    I think the woman who turned the guy down over finances acted very sensibly. The best therapy for the brother would have been to get his finances in order.

  • simplyme

    The reality is not every woman truly desires marriage either. And a lot of women know this about themselves…. theres just a lot more pressure on women to be married so they convince themselves that they need to be. The sooner more people can come to terms with this, the sooner divorce rates will start coming down. The way people are getting divorced these days, I think its safe to say that marriage is a broken institution in America across all racial lines.

    Marriage isn’t about romance… Its about family. Its about creating a legacy. Its about creating stability. You can have love and romance without marriage, but the reality is that studies have shown that marriage directly improves socioeconomic status. It needs to be viewed practically. If the above is important to you then responsibility and other character traits should be higher on the list of things that you look for than “a girl with long hair who puts it down in bed” or a “tall guy who dresses well”. Studies have shown that married people have better finances, live longer lives, have better mental health, have more sex when older, than otherwise similar single people. This is how most societies with very successful marriage rates view marriage. I think marriage is a great life choice, but people no longer view it the way it should be viewed. There are people that will keep searching for perfection in a guy or girl forever thinking everything is supposed to be a fairytale and it just doesn’t work that way. We live in a society that demands a little too much. If he truly wanted to marry for the right reasons (barring any major personality defects) he would have found the right person by 40 years old. Just my take.

  • Cocochanel31

    Amen simply me! As far as the man stating that women need to marry before 30..where are all these women going to get the young men from? Let’s face it.. most men in their 20′s especially early 20′s with alot of options are not looking to settle down in a marriage situation…I don’t care how “good looking and tight” the woman is..

    I’m from the DMV area and truth be told, not trying to sound crass or funny, but the MAJORITY ( exceptions to the rule exist) of men who are looking to settle down in their 20′s just don’t have alot of options from a female perspective- which works great for the woman who actually wants to get married for a mans character and not looks or wallet.

    Women 30 and up can always date men 40 and up..since you will still be young to them! lol..or how about they just leave it up to God and when/if the time is right it will be!

  • Real Talk

    Don’t believe the hype. YOUNG average looking, friendly educated black women who keep their weight down don’t have a problem getting a man.

  • Perspective

    ” Namely, at the time he was financially in a more precarious place and she couldn’t handle that. She told him he needed to “make more money.””

    Good for her! I wish more black women would spell it out like that

    Poor choice for the use of the phrase “she couldn’t handle”

    No – dude didn’t have himself together PERIOD – end of story!

  • Real Talk

    Who said she had to marry a man in his 20′s? Plenty of young women marry men in their 30′s (both are at the peak) even 40′s if he takes care of himself.

    My point was. If you want to get married do it while you have the most OPTIONS. Don’t spend your 20′s playing the field and then expect the game to be the same when you get in your 30′s. You’re may no longer be the star. You’re now the backup.

  • Tallulah Belle

    @Real Talk

    Don’t they teach you young men grammar in school anymore? I realize that you are just writing a post, however, your syntax and use of verb tense are utterly horrific. This fact alone would make me run from you (top speed) at one of these singles events you frequent. Try reviewing Webster’s Dictionary or a basic elementary school guide to English verb tense, noun usage and compound sentence construction. For Pete’s Sake, dude, your command over the English language is truly appalling! Sorry.

  • T.

    Marriage is about different things for different people. For some people it is about legacy and stability and creating a family. For some it is about romance. For some it is about status or financial security. For some it is about companionship as they age. For some it’s about respectability and acceptance in the eyes of society. For some it’s a religious/social responsibility. The important thing is to be married to someone whose perspective and reasons are compatible with your own, whatever they may be.

    You are right that if the author’s friend was seeking to start a family, to create a legacy, etc. etc., he would probably have been married by age 40; that’s because he would have been more actively pursuing marriage as a goal. I think the reason he isn’t married isn’t because his reasons are “wrong” or “right”, it’s because getting married just isn’t one of his priorities. I think that in general, people for whom getting married is a priority or who make marriage one of their major life goals/desires are more likely to be married before age 40, whether for the “right” reasons or for the “wrong” ones.

  • Anthony

    Real Talk is harsh, but I do think some very pretty women act as if they have forever to get an A1 choice in mates. That attitude reminds me of the elite athlete who acts as if he will never get old, but wakes up one day to find he can no longer get a pro contract.

  • Perspective

    Excuses – honestly the dude sounds lame to me.

    And… I doubt he’s being either fully honest with you – or fully honest with himself.

    There are a multitude of factors as to why many black men don’t want to get married and what many women see as shiftlessness among black men really has to do with

    The broken community
    Lack of patriarchy
    Lack of men passing on anything
    Lack of women who desire patriarchy (Women who want marriage on their terms when the man is the one asking)
    Lack of positive male identity that used to be associated with being a married man and upstanding individual in the black community. What black community. Where are these other TOGETHER black families that will welcome you and cosign your marriage, and gain some small amount of respect for being a contributing member of the community.

    We got more women out here who are single moms and really don’t want men around in that capacity. They want to be legitimized by marriage, but beyond that they don’t want the man asserting himself even though he’s the one held responsible IF anything were to go down on his watch.

    There really is no BUZZ around getting married for men anymore – once they take an overall assessment of what it means to be a married man in the black community.

    It will just be a bunch of single mothers patting you on the back and co-signing you making another woman happy, that SOME will try to sabotage later.

    There are no armies of solid brothers, finances in order, all married, to even emulate or feel that you want to be around of the group because they’re about their business and serious.

    I keep trying to tell women without a patriarchal structure – you can’t have those same things that were established and based on patriarchy have any value to men and THEIR perceptions of a positive male identity. Men who get married now are simply look at as SIMPS or guys who just settle down – just to settle down. Its not about establishing a foundation or building a legacy (Their legacy thru children). Its not about building up the community that has no collective movement of other people contributing to it. You’d be alone in that project.

    That attitude about black marriage is WHATEVER from the mail perspective. For women it has a lot to do with validation and adding men to their programs. They are even talking about this issue in the white in the white community, but they are not my concern, just pointing out that the disposability of men has come home to roost.

    Women collectively don’t want to take any responsibility for the attitudes of men in dealing with them. Its just chalked up to lazy black man stereotypes. Some men just try to make the best of it, like, “Hell, if I can’t be the type of man I envisioned (which has really died with no much to support it) I might as well get some booty out of it,” and that’s what you have. Men are now just listlessly roaming with no goals – just living life enjoying what they can.

    I don’t know why women ever shifted the pendulum so far away from what men want and are looking for rather than what they want, because at the end of the day, women have to sit around and wait for a man to propose to them. So unless women are going to start doing the proposing and having something to offer there will continue to be many single women.

  • T.

    There’s only one unmarried man friend discussed in the article, as far as I can tell. .

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    mariage is not so important. love is……..

  • Real Talk

    @Anthony

    Maybe it’s because you’re now an old man (your words), but some of your comments are out there. How many black men with degrees IN THEIR 20′s are balling? Newsflash, most black men don’t come from families with money. He might be the first in his family to get a degree. He has housing (expensive if it’s in a decent area) car, student loans ect. 30 is where the fruits of his labor start to show if he was grinding in his 20′s.

    A lot of black women especially the above average to attractive ones with a degree want brothers to already be established. He wanted her when she was 25 but she didn’t want him. Fast forward they meet again when their both 35 his criteria has now changed. He doesn’t look at her the same. It’s now going to take a lot for him to put a ring on any womans finger. After he’s accomplished a few things and become professionally and financially established a lot of things dudes would ignore and accept at 25 are going to be red flags and things they’re not going to give a pass and ok at 35 and especially not to a 35+ year old woman (a 25 year old woman might get a pass). He knows she is going to grow and mature). In the mean time, he gets to enjoy her banging body and cute face. It is what it is.

  • Chillyroad

    @Tallulah Belle

    Dont they teach you young women about fallacies in school anymore? What does this man’s post have to do with what young men learn in grammar school? He is just one person.

  • Echi

    Hate to reveal my biases here – but I never had much respect for older guys who were unmarried. The other day, I flew into the airport and had a friendly conversation with an older gentleman who is probably around my dad’s age or older. I assumed that he was married or divorced. The conversation was interesting – he was very much into the Black is beautiful theme, empowerment, etc. However, immediately he said he started talking about an ex-girlfriend and his kids by her and said that he had never married, I couldn’t help it, my view of him was taken down a couple steps. I mean c’mon, this guy is my dad’s age and he’s still playing around with girlfriends and the like. I just equate that with being irresponsible.
    When I think of an unmarried guy at age 40+, the first image that comes to my mind are those creepy old dudes at clubs. Total ewww factor.

  • isolde3

    ok. but that still doesn’t answer whether or not he had kids.

  • Real Talk

    Sorry, but I’m using a phone. It’s a little tough. lol Did I hurt your feelings? So I guess you’re now trying to return the favor. Try again.

  • Perspective

    “No point in just doing it for the sake of doing it, he supposes. One must seriously have a reason. For him, it’s love. Myself, I’m also unmarried, and I’d have to say – if I honestly asked myself why I’m not – it has a lot to do with me, my own struggles/fears about relationships, and my overall commitment to my life-long dream of being a writer that took priority over a lot of other things, including settling down and looking for a mate”

    Now that’s honesty – but the thing here is that even though you wanted to be a writer and that’s your passion, when it comes to careers many women want to get it together to be the matriarchy, have that positive female identity associated with being a SIBW, and NOT being dependent on a man – Anti Patriarchy because of the FEAR that some black man somewhere would either do them wrong, or fail them. This is promoted among black women, not saying its completely unfounded when it comes to men falling off, but there are many BITTER WOMEN who just want to throw salt in the water when they know damn well they got with a loser. He was dusty when she met him. Now she’s got buyers regret.

    What I see is that the motives for men have been shifted to black women. Black women have a positive male identity – black men do not. Women say, “Oh why can’t black men have this positive male identity just the say?” because it was based on patriarchal structure.

    Tell me what a man does who has himself together and was taught, “You find you a good wife and you marry her, raise your kids, and take care of your family,” only to find out that women haven’t even been mentally prepared for that because THEY thought that there was no such thing as this type of man. Then you have those who’s mission it was to add men to their program, only problem here is that the only men who are going to get with her ship are MEN WHO DON’T HAVE IT TOGETHER.

    A lot of men who had it together, based black women’s complaints, swore they were going to have black women like up around the block, and have their pick. “Man, I got my stuff together – man I’m ready!”

    Only to find out that they’ve been out shined by street culture, and that many of the women… yea SEX isn’t a problem… but wife material?”

    Yes attractive – (a woman needs to move a man) lets not get stupid
    Motherly qualities
    Affectionate
    Supportive – not just MAN-STROKING telling him things that she doesn’t even believe he’s capable of.
    And actually into being a wife, not some Feminist version of marriage because that turns men off.

    Many women have placed their careers before being a mother and a wife. They see it as somehow OPPRESSIVE and want to flip it where she becomes the oppressor. “Hey, I can’t breast feed, nor can I give birth – how do you really want this to go down?”

    What natural to them has become oppressive.

    Women are stuck between the 1800s and the 21 century. I feel for them, but what angers me as a man is why are her roles always oppressive but my role isn’t. If we’re married and our house gets foreclosed on society looks at ME – not you. If the kids are out of control – society look at ME – not you, whether I’m there or not. All responsibility falls on the man. EVERYTHING.

    Protection of the community
    Creating job opportunities for my people
    Uplifting and promoting black women as beauty
    Providing a roof
    Financial planning for the children’s future
    And maintaining the physical infrastructure of the community. Women don’t fix sidewalks – MEN DO.

    I mean that’s damn near everything. Women’s responsibility – THE HOME and that’s the only thing they will ever be charged with.

    So the man is supposed to out there doing all this – beyond the scope of the home – and then women say,

    “I AIN’T GOTTA DO WHAT YOU SAY”

    See this is where black men are like, “Well then let me off the bus, because I’m not doing all this back breaking work to hear anything like that – LET ME OFF! STOP THE BUS!”

    The stupid thing about that – is ok Brotha you got off the bus, but if too many people get off the bus – what happens to the community?

    Look around, you have the answer – which is why when women come with this EQUALITY (with men still holding the Lion’s share of responsibility) or Matriarchy (women take over, but still assign men patriarchal duties FROM A SUBORDINATE POSITION) – I look at them like – “What the hell are you doing?”

    But let me say that – I’m sexist and black woman bashing.

  • Love Sosa

    lol at being able to tell syntax in a verbal discussion.

  • T.

    @Love Sosa, why do you lol? Syntax is the use of words in phrases and sentences. So it’s perfectly possible to assess syntax in a verbal discussion.

  • Perspective

    It is irresponsible but there is not structure to apply it to. People keep thinking that you can have marriage exist in a vacuum. Marriage is designed to be attached to an intact community. With not functioning intact community with social benefits – these brothas are right – WHAT’S THE POINT. “We can just be happen raising our kids without marriage” because no one is establishing anything anyway. They are just existing. When you don’t have a foundation or structure – you can’t make arguments about why you need structure in other areas.

    Its like women who try to hit me with Christ as to why they could never have an abortion, that’s a sin! – but fornicate all day.

    Its the same as saying “I refuse to subscribe to any type of patriarchal structure – but then you expect all the same benefits in your community that isn’t one based on the patriarchy that you don’t subscribe to, exist in, or believe in.”

    “White women are protected.”

    Well that is a patriarchy. When white men are trying to preserve their legacy you better believe that he is going to promote, uplift, and protect the very woman that makes him and allows him to make more of him and pass on what he has created.

    Sistas want this, I’m like,

    1) Brothas ain’t building
    2) We don’t live in a patriarchy

    There are some women who are so radical to say that black men should create a black Utopia for black women based off their Original Woman status – That’s not going to work either. Its called real incentives for men. Not this magical metaphysical garbage.

  • E.M.S.

    This article leaves a bad taste in my mouth on principle that everybody has to get married and there is something inherently wrong with you for not wanting to or not being married by a certain age. Plenty of relationships work fine without marriage.

    While I defend him in not being married, I also scoff at his assumption that all women who wish to be married do so because they want babies or because it is expected of them. This is false. There many women who are married without children and are content. There are also many who just like the idea of marriage on their own.

    My basic point is, I find it ironic how we constantly talk about being more open and understanding of different ideas or opinions, and yet here’s an article putting this man under a microscope for having a view on marriage that is different.

    It’s really no one’s business what anyone chooses regarding marriage, and you certainly have no right to judge them for it. We are free to live our lives how we want, not how society thinks we should.

  • Cocochanel31

    Perspective you sound bitter as hell! Your name suits you because that is just YOUR PERSPECTIVE! A woman’s work is never done…no need getting into semantics as to who does more..both parties have an equal share of duties in a true PARTNERSHIP! Ths is the 21st century..women are working and bringing as much to the the household as the men financially if not more so, women are working AND GOING TO WORK AND GOING TO SCHOOL and breastfeeding AND catering to their husbands/boyfriends all at the same damn time..so please cry us a river with all that. We all have a hard yoke to bear and hopefully with the right partner things get/feel a little easier.

  • Perspective

    And to further illustrate my point about men maintaining the physical structure of a community.

    When they show all these people fixing the power grid, sawing up trees, and pumping out water from subways due to Hurricane Sandy.

    Let me know how many white women you see.

    The next time you see a building being erected so that a year from now a corporate office can be filled with STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMEN – let me know how many women you saw hanging from steal beams 30 stories up with power tools.

    I’m not being smart – I’m just being real.

    So when western society comes up with this DISPOSABILITY of men – I just SMH – because I know there’s a whole bunch of stuff that won’t get done and the minute it breaks. THAT’S THAT!

    And when men don’t have the drive or motivation to do it because women expect it rather than RESPECT IT. I really hope many women stock up on some batteries and flashlights.

  • LMO85

    I do agree with your second paragraph, science is only just NOW getting a clue about how a man’s age affects and impacts his sperm and its motility. They are linking autism in children with older men who father them. So people do need to consider that just because a man can make a baby at an older age, doesn’t mean he should, doesn’t mean the child will be totally healthy in development.

    As for your first paragraph, I think the dude sounds mature and someone I would like to meet just because we have similar views on marriage. And I ain’t white so I beg to differ! Sometimes, being a product of divorce like myself, it seems you have more realistic views of what marriage is and most definitely what it is not.

  • LMO85

    Agreed!

  • Lady P

    Well the majority of men I know who are 35+ are either married or working towards their second marriage. If they have never been married, then they didn’t have a desire to do so, placed their career first or is cohabitating. Within that situation, the woman have made it so easy for the man; marriage wasn’t required. Why? So in some instances, marriage isn’t just a necessity because some men already have a wife without the ring.

    Overall, I do believe most men and women desire marriage.

  • LMO85

    Co-sign Chica!

  • Perspective

    At the end of the day – all of the above is attached to community – there is no getting around it.

    You don’t need to be married to be in love. Love is an idea.

    Truth be told religion is to control people and set order – because not everyone will do what they are supposed to based on it making sense – but if they belief in something else (through emotions) they just might do it.

    Do you think its a coincidence that religion and society go hand in hand, but religion and peoples moral values go out the door real quick the minute that their basic needs are not being met in the society that they live in.

    Community – and the survival of it is the most important thing there is.

    So what if you have love. So what if you have GOD, if you don’t even have a healthy environment to live in and raise children.

    Both of those things can come up – but at the end of the day – when you tear down all the superficial wall – the only thing holding up the super structure is COMMUNITY, which is based on there being a constant flow of money through the community – which means THINGS are going to have to be built and maintained – PERIOD!

    Enough with the care bears, hearts and rainbows talk.

    Let me strip the means by which you put food on the table out from under you and you will be on some different &$*#

  • Perspective

    Steel

  • LMO85

    Dude you need to just stop it. That notion that women better hurry up and marry in their 20′s is archaic, simplistic and far from the truth. That scare tactic ain’t working here no more. Besides it is not a good idea for today’s men or women to marry in their 20′s. You have seen these comments, society is changing in general, there are more and more people-men and women who simply do not want to be married. I think it is because the institution itself needs to change.

    And you need to hear me on this—> ANY woman who is confident, healthy, loving, compassionate, sensual and in control of herself and her life, has options.

  • Perspective

    Bitter no.

    Aware yes.

    I see comments like yours and I shrug.

    I really wish black men had more self control because they could shut your whole part down.

    1) Things are already NOT getting done in the black community REGARDLESS of strong and independent black women are. Look at your nearest black community. Do you see anything being built or maintained by the men or women in those communities? SO men have already shut down.

    2) Women’s JOBS are 100% dependent on white men – just like the black man of the 60′s with those factory jobs. You better pray he doesn’t shut down your house of ARROGANCE as he did the black man, but he probably won’t because that keeps negros in their place.

    3) If black men, even the dumb ones coming out of matriarchal homes would NOT get these women pregnant unless they were cooperative – there would be many single, childless, educated women who wouldn’t know what to do. As I said – many black women have already made their decision to do WITHOUT black men. All they need is one brothas sperm and BAM instant matriarchy without the input of any man. I won’t be surprised if in a couple of years sistas started going to the sperm bank just to female (XX) sperm put in them.

    What would be beautiful about that would be that everything that happened after that point COULD NOT be blamed on any black man because that was 100% her decision.

    I can see that the community REALLY has to hit absolute rock bottom for women to get it. I’m just going to move out the blast radius. Unfortunately, I don’t see us coming back from this Event Horizon.

    Carry on with your ideas that women are really taking the black race somewhere by being dependent on white men for jobs and not building nor maintaining anything. I swear to God – you better home THE OTHER GROUPS don’t turn on your behinds and pull the financial rug right out from underneath you, because then you will really have nothing.

    Sad to say – part of me wants to be like “GOOD, I TOLD YOU SO”

    The other part says, “Now what good will that do – at that point we’re finished as a community” There are no winners in this game.

    Like I said – many of you women think men are disposable and believe that you are going to be able to SHAME men into being RESPONSIBLE from a subordinate position.

    I don’t know maybe black women have just gotten used to the black community being messed up and looking the way it does.

  • LMO85

    I agree that for the most part, men from previous generations do appear to lack self respect and responsibility if they have not ever been married, but that I think has more to do with the Societal values, norms and expectations at that time. In those days, a responsible man “did the right thing.” Not to say that having massive amounts of children and baby mamas like many men do today is responsible because it isn’t, but in modern times, the notion of what marriage means has changed. In many people, it has less value, so the man the author references, if he is child free, actually sounds very self disciplined and responsible, unlike the man that you mentioned in your post. To me, it just depends on the man and where his head is at as far as why he has never been married (AND whether or not he has multiple children!)

  • Kwazigirl

    perspective,

    I’m not gonna say you are sexist and BW bashing… and I hope you meant that in a sarcastic way.

    As a single, educated BW in her early 30s I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you as I’ve heard that argument from many of my male friends, however I think that the issues both sides (BM/BW) have in regards to marriage, love, dating etc ultimately stems from fear and lack of trust. The BW are afraid of being vulnerable, submissive, supportive, giving, nurturing etc (all feminine traits mind you) to BM because all too often the BM in the black community and probably their lives haven’t been responsible, accountable, dependable, and/or trustworthy …. therefore they put up walls as a way to protect themselves from hurt (bitter, angry BW). On the other hand some BM are afraid of falling in love being vulnerable and then having their hearts broken (adultery/maury povich), others fear missing out on “someone better” then who they’re currently with.

    Women have used education (not that anything is wrong with it) as a way to secure their futures w/o a male being the head of the household. When that happened and women started climbing the ladders, those motherly/wifely traits were put on the back burner, all of the sudden women started emulating traits of the men (bread winner/provider). The BM didn’t see education as a necessity therefore the BW started to out-earn the BM… total emasculator…. “If she’s buyin the bacon and frying it up whats left for me to do? I may as well leave…” This starts the cycle of “BW: ninjas aint isht/ BM: itches don’t know how to treat a man”. For those BM who did pursue higher education, woe is the BW because God Jr. believes that he is “rare” free to play the field and break the heart of any woman who finds him a suitable/equal mate (both educated, young, black, available).

    Both my grandfather’s were manly men and did all those stereotypical many things and my grandmothers were housewives raising multiple children, a generation later my father was a womanizer who cheated on my mother and had 11 children outside of my sister and I. Due to this my mother raised my sis and I to ALWAYS have our own and be independent “just in case”, however she also taught us not to be jaded, bitter women but how to be ladies, and maintain our femininity at the same time.

    Either way if we want to get over these BW/BM issues we need to work together and not continue to see each other as enemies. Both sides have plenty of blame to go around and I believe a healthy dialogue is a good start as long as both sides are willing to listen/learn. Not to sound all doomsday but the future of our communities are going to suffer in a major way if we don’t.

  • gmarie

    most men can live the life they want without it. No need to be bothered

  • Cocochanel31

    Perspective – I agree with you in that our communities are lacking true strong black MALE leadership and that we alll better come up with better means of income if we are not making money for SELF – but lets not be fooled into thingking that ALL or even majority of black WOMEN want to be the man, woman, husband, father, and wife . Alot of roles have been forced upon us by the LACK of the male leadership that you speak of, and yes SOME if it is self inflicted..but I will not tolerate you generalizing all or even majority of black women are I’m too INDEPENDENT for a man because that is simply just not the case. Many men are waiting for the right man to come in and accept his rightful place in their lives, in the meanwhile we do what we have to do which is survice.

  • Kristi

    I am over 30 and very much would like to be married. I am comfortable if I never do though, but I would like too. A person should never marry anyone b/c they feel pressured, by society or otherwise. This is a discussion that couples who are in a serious relationship should have. “Do you ever want to get married?” “How do you feel about marriage?” “How do you feel about living together before marriage?”. I personally believe in the old “Why Buy the Cow….” saying. I will not shack up with a man I’m not at least engaged to. If I eventually want to be married, and so does he, why are we just living together prior to a proposal? I’m just sayin…
    But marriage isn’t for everybody. I think that discussion needs to happen the minute the relationship starts getting serious. Communication people. Its necessary.

  • kwazigirl

    perspective,

    I’m not gonna say you are sexist and BW bashing… and I hope you meant that in a sarcastic way.
    As a single, educated BW in her early 30s I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you as I’ve heard that argument from many of my male friends, however I think that the issues both sides (BM/BW) have in regards to marriage, love, dating etc ultimately stems from fear and lack of trust. The BW are afraid of being vulnerable, submissive, supportive, giving, nurturing etc (all feminine traits mind you) to BM because all too often the BM in the black community and probably their lives haven’t been responsible, accountable, dependable, and/or trustworthy …. therefore they put up walls as a way to protect themselves from hurt (bitter, angry BW). On the other hand some BM are afraid of falling in love being vulnerable and then having their hearts broken (adultery/maury povich), others fear missing out on “someone better” then who they’re currently with.
    Women have used education (not that anything is wrong with it) as a way to secure their futures w/o a male being the head of the household. When that happened and women started climbing the ladders, those motherly/wifely traits were put on the back burner, all of the sudden women started emulating traits of the men (bread winner/provider). The BM didn’t see education as a necessity therefore the BW started to out-earn the BM… total emasculator…. “If she’s buyin the bacon and frying it up whats left for me to do? I may as well leave…” This starts the cycle of “BW: ninjas aint isht/ BM: itches don’t know how to treat a man”. For those BM who did pursue higher education, woe is the BW because God Jr. believes that he is “rare” free to play the field and break the heart of any woman who finds him a suitable/equal mate (both educated, young, black, available).
    Both my grandfather’s were manly men and did all those stereotypical many things and my grandmothers were housewives raising multiple children, a generation later my father was a womanizer who cheated on my mother and had 11 children outside of my sister and I. Due to this my mother raised my sis and I to ALWAYS have our own and be independent “just in case”, however she also taught us not to be jaded, bitter women but how to be ladies, and maintain our femininity at the same time.
    Either way if we want to get over these BW/BM issues we need to work together and not continue to see each other as enemies. Both sides have plenty of blame to go around and I believe a healthy dialogue is a good start as long as both sides are willing to listen/learn. Not to sound all doomsday but the future of our communities are going to suffer in a major way if we don’t.

  • Perspective

    I don’t disagree, although I don’t know where you are at, but I can say that marriage, is not a conversation for most of the black men I know. Not remotely.

    I knew a few guys who married shortly after college, but it only supports my theories about GROUP THINKS because all the brothas were in fraternities and when one got married they all got married and did their steps and dances at the wedding – basically I’m saying, as I said in my post, there was a support network. 5 guys who wants to be the only dude not married with kids. I think its not a well thought out plan, but what I’m saying is if you can have peer pressure to do negative things, then you can have peer pressure to do positive things.

    THE ISSUE IS – YOU MOST CERTAINLY NEED THE NUMBERS.

    I’m willing to bet most of those guys who were in college and did the whole frat thing had patriarchal fathers – AND – some were trying to be a frat brother LIKE THEIR FATHER – this is what I mean when I say MALE LEGACIES.

    But you know women just can’t stand the “P” word – Patriarchy.

  • Cocochanel31

    I meant many women are waiting for the right man to accept his rightful place in their lives. If you go to any college or even church for that matter in AMerica the overwhelming majority of the black population is WOMEN – we are waiting on OUR MEN to get their ish together and join us so we can be in it to win it!

  • Kwazigirl

    in my 90% white male dominated insutry everyone is married. In the under 45 council all the white boys are married or engaged they trot their wives out to events and business dinners with pride. They always ask me if I’m dating or why arent I married. I would love to see the looks on their faces if I said “because BM dont beleive in marriage”.

    I dont get the fear of BM and marriage, and the “white man has more privillege”excuse is exactly that… and excuse. While Bret is building his happy white family and building security and Kristi, Junebug is in the club dancing to Weezy trying to get numbers.

    Pathetic.

  • kwazigirl

    As a single, educated BW in her early 30s I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you as I’ve heard that argument from many of my male friends, however I think that the issues both sides (BM/BW) have in regards to marriage, love, dating etc ultimately stems from fear and lack of trust. The BW are afraid of being vulnerable, submissive, supportive, giving, nurturing etc (all feminine traits mind you) to BM because all too often the BM in the black community and probably their lives haven’t been responsible, accountable, dependable, and/or trustworthy …. therefore they put up walls as a way to protect themselves from hurt (bitter, angry BW). On the other hand some BM are afraid of falling in love being vulnerable and then having their hearts broken (adultery/maury povich), others fear missing out on “someone better” then who they’re currently with.
    Women have used education (not that anything is wrong with it) as a way to secure their futures w/o a male being the head of the household. When that happened and women started climbing the ladders, those motherly/wifely traits were put on the back burner, all of the sudden women started emulating traits of the men (bread winner/provider). The BM didn’t see education as a necessity therefore the BW started to out-earn the BM… total emasculator…. “If she’s buyin the bacon and frying it up whats left for me to do? I may as well leave…” This starts the cycle of “BW: ninjas aint isht/ BM: itches don’t know how to treat a man”. For those BM who did pursue higher education, woe is the BW because God Jr. believes that he is “rare” free to play the field and break the heart of any woman who finds him a suitable/equal mate (both educated, young, black, available).
    Both my grandfather’s were manly men and did all those stereotypical many things and my grandmothers were housewives raising multiple children, a generation later my father was a womanizer who cheated on my mother and had 11 children outside of my sister and I. Due to this my mother raised my sis and I to ALWAYS have our own and be independent “just in case”, however she also taught us not to be jaded, bitter women but how to be ladies, and maintain our femininity at the same time.
    Either way if we want to get over these BW/BM issues we need to work together and not continue to see each other as enemies. Both sides have plenty of blame to go around and I believe a healthy dialogue is a good start as long as both sides are willing to listen/learn. Not to sound all doomsday but the future of our communities are going to suffer in a major way if we don’t.

  • kwazigirl

    As a single, educated BW in her early 30s I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you as I’ve heard that argument from many of my male friends, however I think that the issues both sides (BM/BW) have in regards to marriage, love, dating etc ultimately stems from fear and lack of trust. The BW are afraid of being vulnerable, submissive, supportive, giving, nurturing etc (all feminine traits mind you) to BM because all too often the BM in the black community and probably their lives haven’t been responsible, accountable, dependable, and/or trustworthy …. therefore they put up walls as a way to protect themselves from hurt (bitter, angry BW). On the other hand some BM are afraid of falling in love being vulnerable and then having their hearts broken (adultery/maury povich), others fear missing out on “someone better” then who they’re currently with.

    Women have used education (not that anything is wrong with it) as a way to secure their futures w/o a male being the head of the household. When that happened and women started climbing the ladders, those motherly/wifely traits were put on the back burner, all of the sudden women started emulating traits of the men (bread winner/provider). The BM didn’t see education as a necessity therefore the BW started to out-earn the BM… total emasculator…. “If she’s buyin the bacon and frying it up whats left for me to do? I may as well leave…” This starts the cycle of “BW: ninjas aint isht/ BM: itches don’t know how to treat a man”. For those BM who did pursue higher education, woe is the BW because God Jr. believes that he is “rare” free to play the field and break the heart of any woman who finds him a suitable/equal mate (both educated, young, black, available).

  • grateful

    @Echi

    me too!!!!!!!

    i think for me it comes from the African culture ideal (when you’re married you’re considered a MAN)

  • kwazigirl

    As a single, educated BW in her early 30s I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you as I’ve heard that argument from many of my male friends, however I think that the issues both sides (BM/BW) have in regards to marriage, love, dating etc ultimately stems from fear and lack of trust. The BW are afraid of being vulnerable, submissive, supportive, giving, nurturing etc (all feminine traits mind you) to BM because all too often the BM in the black community and probably their lives haven’t been responsible, accountable, dependable, and/or trustworthy …. therefore they put up walls as a way to protect themselves from hurt (bitter, angry BW). On the other hand some BM are afraid of falling in love being vulnerable and then having their hearts broken (adultery/maury povich), others fear missing out on “someone better” then who they’re currently with.
    Women have used education (not that anything is wrong with it) as a way to secure their futures w/o a male being the head of the household. When that happened and women started climbing the ladders, those motherly/wifely traits were put on the back burner, all of the sudden women started emulating traits of the men (bread winner/provider). The BM didn’t see education as a necessity therefore the BW started to out-earn the BM… total emasculator…. “If she’s buyin the bacon and frying it up whats left for me to do? I may as well leave…” This starts the cycle of “BW: ninjas aint isht/ BM: itches don’t know how to treat a man”. For those BM who did pursue higher education, woe is the BW because God Jr. believes that he is “rare” free to play the field and break the heart of any woman who finds him a suitable/equal mate (both educated, young, black, available).

  • Perspective

    Ok Cocochanel31

    I offer you a challenge to take on – if I’m so wrong.

    Next time you get around a group of black women – GIRLS NIGHT OUT.

    I want you to bring up a conversation about black men being responsible and let the women go at it.

    “THAT’S RIGHT GIRL – THESE BLACK MEN DON’T DO NOTHING” story after story.

    Then I want you to throw them a curve ball – mid way.

    Then start talking about male leadership and men leading –

    WATCH THEM BUCKLE AND CRINGE!

    As I keep saying – MOST YES MOST! of todays black women want male responsibility DEVOID OF LEADERSHIP.

    Picture a general who’s 100% accountable for his troops but the troops say – “YOU CAN’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO” – but yet HEEEEEEEEE is the one that’s responsible

    I would have no problem with equality if women would take on more responsibility without crying – but women’s version of equality is based on ONLY the male power they see – they don’t see the responsibility that comes with NOR WANT IT.

    They want ON-POINT SIMPS – men who got it together but are comfortable with her directing things.

    No real man is going for that. You really expect black men to be COOL with a woman running it – and then go up against other RACES OF MEN WHO ARE OPENLY HOSTILE TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY – that’s a joke.

    Black women are raising weak men – and then complaining about the consequences.

    Today’s women are AVOIDING men who have it together, quiet as it’s kept because they FEAR BEING CONTROLLED.

    And they fear black male leadership that hasn’t existed in the black community for the past 40 years or so due to a host of things – some the fault of black men, other the fault of women, others the fault of outside forces like DRUGS. It was not a black man who did the chemistry to turn cocaine into crack! Nor had speed boats to get dope in the country. NEVER FORGET THAT.

    All I’m saying is that black women have been internally dishonest about what they REALLY WANT.

    They want black men to take on the same responsibilities as patriarchy dictates without having one. They want women to have more power and more say – but the man is still charged with the same amount of responsibility.

    HOW DOES THAT WORK?! Feel free to break that all the way down.

    The person who is MOST responsible should be the leader, period, because the person responsible should have the freedom to make decisions about what they are responsible for – if it’s you family – then you make decisions for the family.

    Imagine being responsible for children you have no access to or say over. If it ain’t the courts its the woman, and women know this goes on. I don’t know why they pretend and paint the picture of the EVIL BLACK MAN FROM 1965 slapping women up every chance he gets.

  • Perspective

    Love how black women leave out – AND THE WHITE WOMEN COOPERATES LIKE A MOFO WITH EVERYTHING THE WHITE MAN IS DOING – THEREFORE SHE REAPS THE BENEFITS.

    You just conveniently leave that out.

  • Cocochanel31

    White people place a higher premium on marriage at a young age because that is how they were raised and socialized. Alot of blakc people come from one parent struggling households so dont really know/understand the benefits if building wealth together with a partner at an earlier age. However, different regions do different things across ethnic groups. I’m willing to bet black people get married younger in southern places as opposed to northern places and same for whites..but I defiently see yt getting married young right out of college moreso bc that’s how they were raised.

  • Fancypants

    If a person chooses not to marry it’s just like a person deciding not to have kids: it’s better they decided they didn’t want to before they did it rather than after. It’s their perrogative. Find someone with your same goals.

    As for marriage no longer being about property, I don’t understand that. It is totally about property! So when you and your other half decide to set up shop, where are you going to live? Whose name is going on the deed? Are you going to put both of your names on everything? And say you’re together forever and one of you dies. Who gets the other’s pension? Nobody, unless you have children but it’s theirs. My uncle had a girlfriend for years and when he died his wife (or ex I can’t remember) got his pension, stock, everything and the woman he spent 20 some odd years with got nothing. My point: there are certain legal rights associated with marriage. If you don’t believe in the spiritual reasons for marriage at least make the smart decision and protect you and yours.

  • W

    you said

    “As I said – many black women have already made their decision to do WITHOUT black men. All they need is one brothas sperm and BAM instant matriarchy without the input of any man.”

    you don’t think some of this has to do with the fact that a lot of black women know that black men do not like black women’s facial features? you yourself have stated so in your vids.i mean, if the man that is my natural mate does not like the way i look i might as well assume i might not get married and so eff it! let me just go ahead and have a baby…these are the women who aren’t complaining about dusty nigghas because they realised what the deal was and made a decision. usually they ask their father or brother to be a male role model.

  • Pseudonym

    “in some instances, marriage isn’t just a necessity because some men already have a wife without the ring.”

    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Not only are so many men having the wife without the ring, they’ve got the wife without even having to recognize her as his official exclusive girlfriend. It’s hard for me out here dating in these conditions…

  • Perspective

    cocochanel31 – can’t respond right now – because all my long post are in moderation

  • African Mami

    Yes, it’s sad because that is a monumental part of your life, that she will not be here to witness.

  • Cocochanel31

    lol ok no worries im sure it will post soon.

  • Real Talk

    @ Cocochanel31

    “White people place a higher premium on marriage at a young age because that is how they were raised and socialized.”

    Don’t let these PC liberals indoctrinate you with that nonsense.This baby mama, not marrying and waiting to get married is not your culture. It’s a recent phenomenon cause by welfare and social engineering programs. In spite of extreme abject poverty, black women had the highest marriage rate in the U.S. until 1960. In almost all African Nations, it is expected almost demanded that young women get married at a young age.

    For some history on the black out-of-wedlock birth ratio, from the end of slavery until 1920 the black out-of-wedlock birth ratio was about 10 percent. From 1920 until 1960 this ratio went up to 20 percent. (that’s 40 years and only a 10 percent increase in illegitmacy). In 1970, the ratio was at 38 percent. (THAT’S AN INCREASE OF ABOUT 18 PERCENT IN 10 YEARS!!!) In 1980, it was 55 percent. (ANOTHER INCREASE OF 20%!!!) In 1990, it was 67 today if course it’s 72%.

  • Keepitreal

    I laughed but this is so damn true and like someone else already said, the “need” for a wife is null and void when tons of men are getting husband benefits without even committing. “We kicking it” is not a proposal ladies.

  • http://gravatar.com/patsfaith patsfaith

    Your theory of GROUP THINKS makes perfect sense. Not just within fraternities, it does seem as if the biological brothers follow that same path as well.

  • Real Talk

    @ LMO85

    That notion that women better hurry up and marry in their 20′s is archaic, simplistic and far from the truth.

    Yeah, that sounds good but back to the real world. How’s that working out for back women? Where is this great black community where black women are waiting and finding men looking to marry them?This thriving black community with high illegitmacy? It’s fantasy land. Pure fiction. Today 31 percent of African American women by their early forties have never married as compared to only 9 percent of White, 11 percent of Asian , and 12 percent of Latino women in the same age group. Those are childbearing years. Which means most black kids are not going to have a father in the home.

  • kwazigirl

    Puh-lease! these white women are running these guys.. I see and hear it first hand. Remember that top selling book ” why men luv b!tches” that wasn’t geared to the BW. When the white girl has expectations and standards and makes demands they think she’s a spit-fire and love it.

  • Lady P

    “they’ve got the wife without even having to recognize her as his official exclusive girlfriend” – Yes…this is so true.

    And for the ones that are stepping out… honey, they treat the GF better than the wife. Sad, but true.

  • Cocochanel31

    Right , but whereas that marriage culture dropped for us ..I guess it didn’t for them ( white people) so even if they choose to get married later in life or not at all, they usually opt not to have the children or as many children out of wedlock…our values/priorities as a people have definetly shifted from one to two generations ago.

  • kwazigirl

    i agree soem women fear of men who have it together… I thik if they were confronted with that man they’d be so suspicious of his intentions he wouldnt get a fair shot.

  • Lady P

    who wants to be the only dude not married with kids – - Exactly.

    And it does depends on your geographic location.

  • work

    Times are hard these days financially and I’ve seen in certain situations were a better half of a couple doesnt want to wait on the male or female to be in a good financial situation, which can cause later marriages. Weedings aren’t cheap some people are just satisfied with Justice of Peace. Weddings are things that thought at a early age for girls. In todays society majority of African American woman want to get married and in many dudes case if they can get there cake to while should I marry her. That goes with shacking up, if a man gets all the benefits besides taxes, why should he marry her. In a mans mind nothing really changes. I think thats a problem on both sexes. Move in together once there is engagement ring. I know there will be responses about you dont know someone to you live with them, but if you stay there long enough like weeks on end. You will find out. Best of luck to those who are trying to get married.

  • Thick_Lee

    I have been happily engaged for 2 years. My fiance was previously married. I myself have never been. We both have children, however I have no desire to be married. I rarely wear my ring. The thing that I find funny is that all of our friends that are either divorced or in an unhappy relationship question us constantly, ” when are y’all getting married?” All our friends that are married never ask us.

    Marriage is a something that a lot of women(black & white) crave and dream about and yes more than men…..this is the reason that wedding planners, bridal shows, and bridal magazines exist. Now there are some men that truly want to be married and probably dream of it. However a black woman feels that she can proudly pound on her chest that she is the one and only wifey.She is the one that got the ring. SHE WON!!!! However marriage is not respected as it once was. This could be a major reason that a lot of blacks are not married. Why go through all the hoopla if the only thing to change is her last name!

    IJS

  • Anthony

    Although I agree that if a woman s highly sought after, she might want to marry when the demand is highest. By no means am I saying a woman should rush to marry. My main point is that life is finite, and no one has forever to do anything.

  • http://gravatar.com/niajolie JJ

    75% of black women marry by age 35. There is a marriage problem within the black community but that stat isn’t bad. So black women calm down most of us do marry.

  • LMO85

    I have tried to understand just what your perspective is supposed to be but in reality your thoughts are really jumbled and often come out chopped and screwed. It is better to not even bother responding to you because it is obvious that you seek attention. But I realize that sometimes, when something is ignored, people think that means acceptance. So I have to say my peace. And I do mean peace. No offense but seriously you keep posting on this blog as if you are going to find an audience, as if you are going to convince the masses of women of their evil ways. Your words come across just the same as any of the very real Bitter Brother Blog brigade and the male identified internally oppressed black women who keep wanting to shift the focus of blame on women, black women, as to what is wrong in black relationships. Your notions about returning to Patriarchy as if it ever left!! are extremely azz backwards and do absolutely NOTHING, contribute absolutely NOTHING to the conversation in how to move black women and men forward when it comes to living in this world today. Single women headed households are just that, single women raising their children-some doing a better job than others. The trouble that comes from single parent households has mostly everything to do with poverty and low income/education and access to resources as someone mentioned in another post. That and the fact they these single parent women are raising their children in a STILL Patriarchal society that truly doesn’t care about women and children.

    All of the successes and only some of the failures of the so-called Black community come from the Black women by and large. Why? Because black men as a group-fell down. They became so preoccupied with the white man’s boot, that they began to covet it, instead of finding ways to fight against it–which incidentally is also the underlying commonality that black men have with white women. Which further points to how Anti-black racism movements tend to concern black men’s interests and all anti-sexist movements tend to concern white women’s interests.–But that is another topic for another time.

    My point here is that it is wholly disappointing that day in and out, some brothers and some sisters like you are allowed to constantly come into black women spaces, spaces that should be safe mind you, and constantly begrudge, degrade, talk down, diminish, admonish, hold fault and generally hold in disregard, black women. Yes, you do come across as sexist because you are blaming black women for things that they did not create by themselves and for trying to take control of their lives and those of their children. Overall, Black men left FIRST. Black men chose not to uphold their communities, instead they choose to tear them down. That is why Black women need to leave said communities. Black men degraded their women behind closed doors and then with absolutely no shame, did it in public. First through music, then through video, now through books and talk shows. That alone is THE KEY reason why it has been open season on Black women for some time. NO protection, no respect, no love. Yet and still Black women have had to carry the banner, they have had to put up with white men’s shit, come home and take care of their families, work multiple jobs, continue their education in the hopes of providing a way for themselves because they could not depend on black men to be there. And you want to say this is because of some misinformed belief about Matriarchy? There is no Matriarchy in this country. These United States have never been run on Matriarchy. You have no idea what Matriarchy is or what it represents and furthermore you do not know black women so it is time for you to stop speaking on behalf of us and our interests as if you do. If you are not here to learn more than you write, then you need to be dis-invited to this space. Go found your own Black male blog, and hold black men accountable! UNTIL BLACK MEN ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY BLACK MEN FOR ALL OF THEIR MESS, BLACK MEN HAVE NO RIGHT to come on a site such as this one to continue to spew nonsense and beat women down. NO, we don’t want or need a continuance of Patriarchy. What we need is to be treated as equally human as men are in this society. We need to abandon archaic forms of thinking and realize we are in a new age and need new paradigms to fit this age. We are not going backwards. Progress means people want to be treated equally–equality means respect me as a person to make decisions about my life for myself. Pay me equally and justly if I can do the same job or better than you. Afford me the same opportunities that you afford yourself. If we are married and raising children and both working outside the home, then realize that you have to equally perform tasks that keep the household running smoothly. If we have sex, know that a child can come from that union. BE PREPARED TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR OFFSPRING. Realize that to get means you have to give. Reciprocity is key. If I look out for you, then you look out for me. If I take care of you then you take care of me. What about this is so hard to understand?

  • Cocochanel31

    thank you for that JJ..so true! ha! Hate when people rule their lives by “stats”

  • gmarie

    so..am I alone in thinking two parent homes (not co-parented home) would do a great deal in helping reduce poverty in our communities?

  • LMO85

    What part of not everyone wants to be married and/or have kids did you not understand? When you look at numbers, you have to think about who is reporting those numbers and what is behind them. Out of that 31% that you claim have never been married, how many wanted to be? How many are lesbians? How many have children vs. those who don’t? For those black women who do want to marry, whose to say it has to be to a black man? You are still spitting out spiel that means NOTHING in the REAL world. In the real world if a woman wants to get married she can. Now to me, it is about to who? I hope not to just anybody because she is desperate due to believing the hype you keep peddling. I hope it is about more than getting married, I hope it is about building a life with someone with equal values, and staying married. If a woman wants to have children at a later age she can. We have this thing called technology, we have plenty of children in the world who need loving homes. We don’t have to be bound by those ancient patriarchal notions that you keep wanting to cling to.

  • LMO85

    There is no high end age limit on love and marriage.

  • LMO85

    What I am really trying to understand here is how an article about a man in his 40′s who chooses not to marry for one reason or another, which could be informative on its own merit, is once again turned back on black women and all the stats pointing to her doom and gloom if she is not married by a certain age and on and on? Why is this pandering constantly allowed on these boards?

  • D.T.

    So you’re happily engaged with no desire to marry? What are you engaged to do then?

    I don’t get it.

  • lol

    no , you’re not.

  • G

    @LMO85

    Show me the numbers of black women who neither want to get married or have children. Over 80% of black children are born out of wedlock, so what does that have to do with the price of tea in china???
    Let’s face it, getting married and having children is a natural desire for most woman in the natural world, black or non black.We all know gays/lesbians are a minority, and even then, many lesbians desire marriage and children, otherwise gay marriage would not be such a huge political issue. You’re bringing up issues which have nothing to do with the topic at hand. With 80% of black women having children out of wedlock and their children suffering as a result, you’re not convincing anyone that a relevant number of these women wanted children but did not desire marriage.

    As much as your feminist mantra sounds great on paper, everyone knows that as we get older the dating pool shrinks. The older we get the less availble pool of eligible singles. And after 40 a woman’s child is at higher risk for down syndrome and other birth defects, so yes, having children in your 20s and 30s would be a more favorable course of action.

  • Perspective

    Kwaz – that you for being honest because a lot of women won’t admit that.

    Its like I say about white women who are arrogant – “who’s really intimidated?” White women are promoted all over the place to think they are better – Drop a bad sista in front of them and they LOSS IT – “What!? She’s supposed to be ugly and fat!”

    The Kerry Washingtons of the world mess their heads up

    Black women are the say way when it comes to black men – it is promoted to them that they are SO MUCH BETTER than black men and that 90% of black women are educated and 99% of black men are all messed up.

    When a man shows up to the contrary WHO DO YOU THINK IS REALLY INTIMIDATED? The man expects the women to be reasonably there, but the women does not. Factor in women who have been taught to make sure they are in the more powerful position and “HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.”

    A lot of black women expect black men to be all messed up and move from that point.

    Also, call it fear, or lack of trust – which is also addressing another woman point.

    Fine black women lack trust and faith in black men. What funny about this is that only seems to apply to finances.

    They don’t trust a black man enough to be financially dependent on him but they will trust him with HER BODY, STICKING AROUND IF HE WERE TO GET HER PREGNANT, TO BE FAITHFUL – just not finances. See I call BS on that. This is a woman trying to make a power move.

    A man that you can’t trust financial is a RED FLAG that that’s a man you should not be with. Here’s the part that black women don’t think about.

    If he doesn’t know how to handle finances, then what can he teach his SON about financial responsibility?

    Have enough black women operating like this – having children by men who are not financially competent and you will have a whole community of financially incompetent men – because women (for whatever reason) – the women want control, or they just plane don’t think about it – then when they get to complaining about black men – THE BY PRODUCTS OF THE MEN THEIR MOTHERS CHOOSE, and want to blame black men across the board, I’m like, “This is a joke!”

  • I got sense!

    You know why….

  • Real Talk

    Wrong! I’ve seen this study misquoted numerous times. The 75% number reflects black women 35 AND OLDER who have been married. Which means they’re including great grandmothers who got married in the 50′s and 60′s. This implies that women of today have the same marriage options as women in the 50′s & 60′s. It’s a laughable really bad study commissioned by the CBC to placate black women and keep you all voting for the very same liberal programs that help destroy the black family.

    Here’s the actual quote.
    “However, when analyzing the black women who are 35 and older, the percent who have never been married drops to 25 percent”

    http://www.empowernewsmag.com/listings.php?article=2051

  • I got sense!

    You do realize that there were fewer black (women) people in the U.S. in the 1960s don’t you? The one thing I want people to do is realize that raw numbers go along with those “rates” and “percentages” and until they are listed along side those “rates” and “percentages” don’t mean anything. Black Americans make up such a small portion of the U.S. population that the stats will always be extreme. When you subdivide that segment into male and female it’s even higher. The percentage of white females that are unmarried in the same age range is high as well. Did you know that they start counting the “unmarried” status at age 14?!?!??! I actually looked it up. They count age 14 – 70. It’s ridiculous but at least it’s better than it used to be…they used to start counting at age 13. Getting married doesn’t mean better and not getting married doesn’t mean anything bad either. We are not living in the 1960 and what was going on in the U.S. or worldwide is very, very different. Can’t compare apples to papaya. Also, people getting married and the reasons they got married is a different story. Just getting married won’t solve anything just like the black community isn’t in the shape it’s in just because people aren’t getting married as much as they used to. There are a number of factors and simply getting married won’t solve every issue.

  • Keepitreal

    Thank you, I am so tired of seeing the bullshit notion that our current state of affairs has always been the norm and we should just accept the fate of broken homes and so called matriarchy by default. And I say so called because men in large numbers abandoning their family is not matriarchy.

  • __A

    In the past, people looked at unmarried men as if there was something wrong with them. They were considered less responsible as well.

    I think marriage is very important. If folks don’t want to get married, please don’t make any kids that you don’t take care of. There are plenty of men talking about they don’t want to get married but have kids. Come on now.

  • Perspective

    Your response is kinda canned and a patch work of regurgitated stuff that we have all heard before but I just want to point out some things that really seem to be more FEMALE LOGIC than actually making sense. I don’t want to attack you – but I gotta call it like I see it.

    You say: “On the other hand some BM are afraid of falling in love being vulnerable and then having their hearts broken (adultery/maury povich),”

    Men, as a rule, do not fear that ish

    Grass being greener – shore – but women are the same way, difference is women “settle” quicker than men do.

    “Women have used education (not that anything is wrong with it) as a way to secure their futures w/o a male being the head of the household. ”

    Which supports my very point.

    “The BM didn’t see education as a necessity therefore the BW started to out-earn the BM”

    Education WASN’T A NECESSITY. Back when the black community was intact all a man had to do was walk down to a factor put in 8 hour days plus a little overtime when he needed money and HE ALONE could support a family – which is largely what the black community consisted of. Look at Detroit back in the 40′s, 50′s and 60′s.

    ““If she’s buyin the bacon and frying it up whats left for me to do? I may as well leave…”

    WRONG! – the idea of “I might as well leave” came from women being subsidized by the state. Not in all occasions but A LOT. In order for a woman to receive benefits THE MAN CAN NOT LIVE IN THE HOUSE – that still goes on today.

    Then you had those – (don’t know the percentage) who tried to GAME THE SYSTEM – it was their hustle. He’s there most of the time – but when the inspector comes around he bounces – Obviously you can see the fighting that comes in over that. You idea that there were armies of black women who could hold down a family INDEPENDENT of black men and government checks is just false. HAVE YOU BEEN THROUGH A BLACK COMMUNITY LATELY?! The overwhelming majority of black women are struggling – kids or no kids. Only 20% of black people have a college degree and the percentage is close to 1 to 1 its like 1.07 – slightly more females with 4 year degrees – but then you don’t factor in who’s working what jobs. Black men still make more money. That only leaves 10-12% black women with a 4 year degree.

    See you got a lot of MYTH! as black women love to make up history mixed up with some reality in here.

    “believes that he is “rare” free to play the field ” This is true. Why wouldn’t they think that. Black women talk about how they don’t exist and all ninjas are in jail. But truth is these men can find women to sleep with – but when it comes to marriage – please – all women think they are marriageable.

    “my father was a womanizer who cheated on my mother ”

    I take it you never asked your mother why she picked such a sorry man.

    I doubt that he was just SO ON-POINT and well mannered that she couldn’t resist. He prob was riddled with red flags that she blatantly ignored.

    Last part – this isn’t about BLAME – but black women who up until the last few years always thought themselves to be infallible do need to recognize their part in this, especially when it comes to WANTING TO RUN THINGS to the men they are choosing SO THAT THEY CAN RUN THINGS – which tend to be subpar men – who have nothing to offer their children EVEN IF PRESENT.

  • G

    @ Real Talk

    Folks don’t want to admit that ish has hit the fan with AA’s. The lack of marriage and rate of out of wedlock births has created a domino effect causing a shell of other problems in the black community. Not to mention government programs do not replace family. The government will not accommadate our unwillingness to form families.

    People continue to live on fantasy island and pretend like marriage does not strengthen family bonds, does nothing to hold a community together and/or does not contribute to a child’s well being.. LOL

  • Perspective

    Also – keep in mind that the number of black people going to college in the 80s was about 11% total.

    So that means about 4-5% total for black women. Black women going to college like it was the thing to do didn’t happen until The mid 90′s

    So your claim like black women were just BUSTING OUT AT THE SEEMS when it came to them breaking out of the ghetto and into college is so off its a shame.

    THESE ARE THE TYPES OF MYTHS THAT BLACK WOMEN KEEP PROMOTING TO EACH OTHER!

    They’re so false its insane – but when you come to black men with this FALSE HISTORY on your mind – then you wonder why we have problems.

    Black women are still up in the clouds – we have to bring them back down to earth just have a decent conversation

  • LMO85

    But of course, rhetorical question really…

  • G

    This is a perfect example of Jedi Mind tricks black men love to use. Black women, listen and learn:

    “1. When men marry women, we are responsible for that woman and existing & future children.”

    In other words, “While nearly every other race of men seek to provide and protect their women, I as a black men understand this responsibility but run the other direction, even if children are already in the equation.”

    “2. Black women’s lack of appreciate for black men is astounding, I would rather marry out to a racist non-black woman than deal with black women.”

    In other words, “I am a damaged black male who has bought into the white supremacist roles which have been assigned to black women, and therefore will take a reject Becky over a half decent black woman any day. I HATE BLACK WOMEN.”

    3. Men are not defined my marriage. If women want marriage, you have to make it appealing for men. It is not appealing based on what BW are selling.

    In other words ” While no other race of women is required to make marriage appealing to men, I assign this duty to black women because I hate them and have accepted the roles white supremacy has assigned to them. Along with every other failure in my life, I will yet again blame black women for why I refuse to protect and provide for black women & children.

  • LMO85

    G you are unbelievable and need more people. Can you read? What are you not comprehending by the numerous comments on these boards alone? Stats can be taken out of context and skewed when what is behind them is not taken into consideration. Such as % of population. Have you not read from numerous women on this site alone that do not want kids? That don’t care to be married? Just because you drink the kool aid doesn’t mean we all do.

  • __A

    @kwazigirl – I agree. I have never been one of those black women that would say white women and Asian women are weak. These women have standards! And they don’t take or put up with crap. It’s funny because a lot of BW say they put up with crap, but BW put up with wayyyyy more than these other women.

    I have read that book too. The writer was spot on about the dumb fox.

  • Anthony

    You only live so many years, and you are only physically strong enough to deal certain aspects or raising children for so long. The prime years for having children and raising a family are finite for women and men.

    I’m pretty old fashioned, when I think of marriage, I think of it in terms of starting and raising a family first and foremost.

  • G

    G you are unbelievable and need more people. Can you read? What are you not comprehending by the numerous comments on these boards alone? Stats can be taken out of context and skewed when what is behind them is not taken into consideration. Such as % of population. Have you not read from numerous women on this site alone that do not want kids? That don’t care to be married? Just because you drink the kool aid doesn’t mean we all do.

    @LMBO

    Right, as if the individual women on this site can speak for the african american collective. As of mass numbers of black women somehow prefer to struggle and raise children alone rather then have the security blanket marriage provides.Defies human logic and is certainly not the norm for non black women around the world.

    Yeah, ok, Keep living on fantasy island. Keep pretending as though stats are skewed and numbers are blown out of proportion when the numbers for the black community are consistent across the board: high rates of STD/HIV, high rates of out of wedlock, the low marriage rates, etc etc. But Of course, all these stats are skewed/miscontrued. Ok. Keep living through Michelle/Obama while mass numbers of the black community are forming a permanent underclass with their fantasy island thinking.

  • __A

    It is still the same thing. If there were 1/10 BW in 1940 with illegitimate children and 10/100 in 2012, it is still the same percentage 10%. You don’t compare groups of different sizes with raw numbers, but you can definitely use percentages.

    If you could get a bigger group of these 1940s BW togethers, say 100, then because of the rate of illegitimacy 10%, there would be more women with illegitimate children in a larger group 10.

    You don’t need the raw numbers with the percentages and rates. That’s why they use the percentages. I mean when you go shopping. They tell you 10% off not $10 right? And the amount of your discount depends on the price of your item and is proportional.

    What if someone said American women are taller than Canadian women because 50 million American women are tall whereas there aren’t even 50 million people in Canada? You don’t do that, but if I were to say 20% of American women are tall and 20% of Canadian women are tall, then the groups are comparable. That is saying imagine that Canada has the same population as the US, then based on percentages, the number of tall women in both countries should be close.

    I can’t believe people gave that thumbs up.

  • Shar

    I totally get this. I gave my number to this 47 year old dude on the block. He said he worked at Con Ed or something but he seems to have too much free time for all that in my opinion. Real talk, I think he sales drugs but whatever. I didn’t like his whole approach once I got to thinking. Plus,my father 51 and I can never remember him hanging out on the block. If my daddy didn’t do it, then I can’t date a dude that is in his age range that does it. NEXT! So glad I had a great father around that set the example.

  • G

    @Eric

    Please, by all means date Becky, Ming Lee or whoever elsee. Please take your damaged thinking to their territory and let them deal with your mess. Truth is, a leopard does not change their spots, So while you can front and pretend as though becky will get royalty treatment, we all know becky will get the same crappy treatment you dished out to black women. You will not be missed.

    As for black women being spinsters, that has nothing to do with black men. What black men fail to realize is that you don’t mean much on a global spectrum, so you like to pretend as though you control the destiny of black women. You don’t. As long as black women date non-black quality men and make successful marriages with these men, life will go on without your.

  • __A

    Right? A lot of folks fail to make that connection. You’re broke? Okay. Now we’ve got a two income household. You want some home cooked meals? You need help around the house? You got it. You need a male role model for your sons? You want a man to protect your daughters. Boom! You want to share your life with someone? Right there. You want to build some wealth and leave a legacy? Go for it.

    Marriage and family is about love yes, but it’s also about commitment and legacy. Many people are not willing to put in this work. They’d rather be the old dude in the club.

  • ZeitouneMP

    I agree with almost everything you’ve said in your post and I am a woman! You’ve said it like it is.

  • ZeitouneMP

    So true Perspective. I totally agree but maybe you can give a clear message to BW that want to get married? I have friends that are struggling in their marriages or struggling to find a mate b/c of the issues you’ve brought up.

  • I got sense!

    @_A

    I guess you missed it. I’ll itemize

    1. Blacks did not see linear population growth.

    2. Comparing White women who make up 47% of the U.S population to Black women who make up 8% of the U.S. population is asinine in every respect because it doesn’t actually show anything.

    3. Comparing the black community of 2012 to the black community of 1960s is asinine because our society has changed so much.

    4. Believing that the sole act of not getting married is the reason the black community or the entire U.S (because white people are complaining about the exact same thing, look it up) is deteriorating is asinine.

    There are numerous countries where marriage is not the societal norm and their communities, kids, and socioeconomic statuses are fine. Not because of the piece of paper but because of the people.

    When individuals make up their own minds that they are going to work hard, do the right thing (not because they will receive recognition or accolades), and make better decisions the entire country including the black community will get better. There are plenty of people in jail/prison who came from a two parent home. Coming from a two parent home doesn’t automatically mean you will turn out better. All it means is that the parents have more resources to keep helping their kids and getting their kids out of trouble time and time again where as a person with fewer means can’t. I know lots of two parent household kids who act like they were raised by wolves. Then you meet or find out who their parents are and you’re like “WTF”!!!?!??!

    Being married won’t keep food on the table, pay bills, or keep anyone happy. I think what MOST people here are confusing is what state of mind, character, morals, and values married people had BEFORE they got married. Getting married didn’t make them that way. There were responsible, hardworking, respectful people BEFORE they got married. So people see married people and see their positive qualities and come to the conclusion it’s the ring and piece of paper that made everything better. NOPE, they had those qualities before hand. Not to mention the divorce rate being so high and that most white people marry numerous times. If people would rather not say “until death do us part” numerous times I can’t blame them. For some people getting married is sacred and they only want to do it once. I find no merit in the fact that so many white people have been married at least once by the age of 35. How is that better? Have you read any of the stats on kids who have divorced parents? They aren’t doing any better.

  • I got sense!

    According to the 2010 census, just over 26% of white Americans aged 15 and older have never married, compared to 47% of the black population.

    1.People need to realize that whenever a quote is given they start counting at AGE 15!! How can you start counting when legally you can’t get married that young without consent from your guardian. It’s so stupid that men and women turn around and use this nonsense as ammunition against each other. The age of marriage and gotten older (understandable). Most people (regardless of where you come from) aren’t getting married until late 20s to early 30s so why the hell then are 15 year olds being added to the bunch.

    2. This states who has ever been married not who is currently married. So just because some white folks get married 8 or 9 times it’s better than a black woman who will wait as long as it takes to find the right ONE to get married to rather than whoever is okay for right now? How is that better?

    3. 100 – 47= 53 which means the majority of black women over 15 have been married so all this fussing and fighting is for what?

    Some people don’t want to get married, some are currently engaged, some won’t ever get married (black women out number black men 8 to 1 last time I checked someone correct me if I’m wrong) and with an every increase prison population of black men the selection is slim. Not to mention black women have more education so if income, a clean background, and a decent $45K a year salary is on her priority list, realistically how many black men fit this mold? Then on the flip side you have the women with multiple kids, weave (a huge turn off for many men), and overweight (another huge turn off for men). So if he wants a certain type of woman and you don’t fit the bill how likely is it that black men and women are going to be getting married in droves.

    Take all that out and really like the guy in the article how many BM&W really want to get married?? Really, how important is it if you don’t financially need each other and you both work, take care of the household needs and children (if there are any) why do you need to get married or is it just something that some people want. Marriage was never a love/romance thing. It was a necessity for men and women. The marriage rates were high because YOU HAD NO CHOICE. Comparing today to 1960s and before is like comparing apples to oranges. It’s easy to make a decision when there are no other options.

  • Ravi

    The thing is, at this point we can’t tell if the 25 to 34 crowd will never get married or if they will just get married later in life. If we have data on the 35 to 45 crowd that could be a leading indicator. But to conclude that because 42% that aren’t even 34 yet haven’t been married, that they never will be married, seems a bit premature. We will have to see over time who was correct.

  • Pseudonym

    “I would rather marry out to a racist non-black woman than deal with black women.”

    You make no sense.

  • Ravi

    cosigning 100%, especially on Borg reference.

  • The Other Jess

    This article spells it out…there are a lot of selfish Black men in our community.

  • The Other Jess

    @G – So true! I know of sooo many mixed people who do not have relationships with their Black fathers, or don’t know them at all – many Black men may run to non-Black women, but they treat them just as crappily. I mean dang! even Barack doesn’t know his father! The problem is with the men, not the women. Stop trying to gaslight people. Too many Black men have become lazy and cowardly. Just because something is not easy doesn’t mean youjust up and leave. Men try to work things out and weather less than ideal situations that may pop up. You can’t be aso selfish that just because the good lovin is over, you move to the next. While you may be trying to ghurt the woman, you actually hurt yourself too, in the long run.

  • Ravi

    I’m 34 and never been married. I agree with pretty much everything the brother in the article mentioned. Marriage would admittedly be nice, but I’m not just going to get married just for the sake of being married.

  • Perspective

    “In other words ” While no other race of women is required to make marriage appealing to men, I assign this duty to black women because I hate them and have accepted the roles white supremacy has assigned to them. Along with every other failure in my life, I will yet again blame black women for why I refuse to protect and provide for black women & children.”

    @ G

    Actually G

    Other races of women do make it appealing to their men because they DO subscribe to a patriarchal structure. Although that is an exchange between men and women men provide a suitable environment I have heard black women blatantly say REPEATEDLY that they don’t believe in that structure and even if black men built it they don’t want to be apart of anything that black men control because they fear the black man’s abuse.

    Seriously speaking, if anyone has been affected by white supremacy its the black woman. To destroy men – all you have to do is take away their means of supporting their family. To destroy women who will then destroy the minds of the children they raise – you attack their minds and promote what you want them to think.

    Example the Doll Test.

    And again I see you and other keep bringing up protection and provisions for black women but ignoring the fact that is directly attached to a patriarchal community that doesn’t exist in the black community. Men protect what they own and control and put their blood sweat and tears. When women don’t give men ownership – men cease to see the purpose. Its entirely too much work to do for someone else’s satisfaction.

  • Caramel

    Some men look at marriage and have a purely selfish take on it. They aren’t ready so they will wait until they have exhausted all the dating games. Well let me tell you this. Take a step back and look at the big picture. Historically marriage, not romantic love, has been the way for a father to ensure that his daughter would be taken care of once she left his household. He knew that together with a spouse there would be a chance for her and that spouse to achieve wealth, instead of her languishing on the vine somewhere. His grandchildren would be provided for and raised in a healthy environment. That is why the world, collectively has sanctioned marriage!!!! When the breakdown of marriage occurs, then we see poverty, crime, single-parenting and a jail full of statistics. Your friend needs to look at the big picture. Why do you think that the news is so unbearable with their headlines of children killing children in our inner cities?!?!?!?! This is worst than it was in the 1960s, when the revolution was at its peak!!! Stop looking at marriage as a cell and see it for what it truly is. I wonder, does your friend have any children?

  • G

    @ The Other Jess

    Regardless of the mother’s race, a high number of black men’s children make up the foster care system. The divorce rates between black men and white women marriages are higher then that of white white couples and white men black women marriages.

    Again, the same santa clause in a different suit. Black men can say what they want, but they’re are showing their true colors to the whole world. .

  • The Other Jess

    However, I’m not in agreement with dating non-Black men as a solution. Messed up men are in every race – just Black people seem to have more than others! And Black men don’t even try anymore.

    Oh well, my doom, I’m a glutton for punishment, but no matter how I try,i have to stick with my preference of quality Black or Afro-Latino men (Puerto Rican, Cuban, etc). Sorry, it is what it is. I admit this will probabably leave me unmarried for life, but c’est la vie! I know of no other way.

  • Perspective

    Since you brought up white women -

    White women come from an intact community their community is BASED on HAVING RESOURCES.

    The black community is not. This is why I argue with women about all the MAN-STROKING and telling broke black men that they are KINGS and that his money doesn’t matter as long as he loves Christ, has swag, or lays the pipe down.

    Then when you need him to be in the proper financial position to do things you wonder why he’s offended and calls you a GOLD DIGGER.

    I don’t agree with black men who believe that they don’t have to have money – but I have witnessed women time and time again tell me – “OH YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE HERE” because they don’t want to be alone – with 3 little boys standing around hearing this mess.

  • G

    @ Ravi

    You don’t want to get married,that great. I’m not critisizing black men who have no responsibilities and don’t want to get married. As long as the women you mess with know you’re not serious about getting married then it shouldn’t be a problem. What many are speaking about is the masses of black men who have children or even multiple children by multiple women and STILL subscribe to this “I’m just not going to get married for the sake of being married” its baloney, sorry.

  • Chocolate_cyn

    Finally!!! This is the best comment I’ve seen all year! Thanks

  • Ravi

    I didn’t say I don’t want to get married, just not get married for the sake of being married. I’m not going to go out and marry the first suitable candidate out of some insatiable need to be married. That doesn’t mean I’m not serious about marriage or marriage minded. All things being equal, I think my life would be happier with marriage as opposed to without. If I had my choice, then I’d ultimately like to be married, but that’s not always in the cards for everyone.

    having a child isn’t enough of a reason to marry someone that you don’t want to be married to. Granted, that should have been thought of before having sex, but once the child is there, I don’t think the parents should just get married if they don’t want to be married to one another. That sounds like a sham of a marriage. You should be in love with the person you marry, in my opinion.

    I don’t think this “masses” of men should be getting multiple women pregnant (nor the corresponding masses of women getting pregnant by randoms), but that doesn’t mean they should get married.

  • Perspective

    I can’t respond to all that – entirely too much

    I have a few questions for you.

    ” Pay me equally and justly if I can do the same job or better than you. Afford me the same opportunities that you afford yourself.”

    And what jobs have black men afforded themselves that they haven’t afforded you with equal pay.

    Last time I checked black women were getting their jobs from black men. They were getting those jobs from white men – so you need to take your grievances that you have with white men that you got from white women and file them with who is responsible for that.

    ” If we are married and raising children and both working outside the home, then realize that you have to equally perform tasks that keep the household running smoothly.”

    Ok – let me go with that one – FINE – equal household – but lets go back to everything that u assigned black men like UPHOLDING THE COMMUNITY – which means that black men would have to go out here and do EXTRA WORK OUTSIDE THE HOME.

    Again you women want men to fulfill patriarchal duties WITHOUT having a patriarchy as you clearly stated.

    ” NO, we don’t want or need a continuance of Patriarchy. What we need is to be treated as equally human as men are in this society. We need to abandon archaic forms of thinking and realize we are in a new age and need new paradigms to fit this age. We are not going backwards. ”

    Exactly – that’s what I’ve been saying. BLACK WOMEN DON’T WANT PATRIARCHY – but they damn sure want the PERKS AND THE BENEFITS – as you jealously look onto other communities.

    black women like to pull on a lot of myth. You could make a movie about it. Its all regurgitated stuff. Its so easy to make up these stories. You didn’t take in anything I said. You’re rambling but what I said was quite logical – I guess you don’t understand how social engineer works and WHY patriarchy is a million year old system that every other group that is in a better condition than the black community is on.

    Women like you seem to always leave that out – but yet cry and complain about what the black community lacks.

    You will never be valued by as you see in other patriarchy when you don’t exist in a patriarchy. You brought up America is not a matriarchy – No Duh – America is controlled by whites – but the black community is run and controlled by black women. No men around = matriarchy. Women and children = matriarchy – black men are reduced to sperm donors – the only thing is you want responsible sperm donors with no power or authority to put you up on a pedestal like other races of men who control the economic landscape of their communities and have women who are 95% about it. You will always have women who aren’t about it in every group – but THAT is how whites, for example MAINTAIN THEIR POWER – they pass on wealth and legacies from the man and through his children.

    If you women don’t want that structure – so be it. WELCOME TO THE CURRENT BLACK COMMUNITY. I can guarantee it WILL BE more of the same with the way you all think. You just make it so EASY for brothas to have to excuse to not get off their asses with this hot mess that you are talking. You are PRECISELY the type fo black woman I’m talking about.

    I agree with the whole taking care of each other thing, but you are out of your mind with this EQUALITY thing that is never equality – because you are still charging men to PATRIARCHAL DUTIES – and refuse to cooperate with a patriarchal structure. I mean is really sad and INSANE how some black women think.

    Unfortunately, I already know where the black community is going.

    Keep blaming the men who come out of your matriarchal factories – and then being mad at the men who recognized the craziness that women like you are on and who OPT OUT of the black community or the idea of marriage all together.

  • simplyme

    <3

  • KE

    If a woman wants to get married, she needs to get serious about her desires, intentions and goals sooner rather than later. Optimally, this means that once she graduates from college in her early 20s, she spends her mid-20s looking for, formalizing and cultivating a real relationship with a viable prospect – or, at the very least, dating with a marital end game in mind, not just for the sake of dating with no standards, requirements or finish line in sight. This is what gets all too many women in trouble; they spend their 20s playing around and then when 30 hits them, they are all surprised and getting worried, as they see that many of their counterparts, black and white alike, have already been down the aisle, may be on baby #1 or #2, and may have a few years of marriage under their belts already. Typically, these are the couples that dated and got serious while the woman, if not both of them, were in their 20s.

    I am a 34-year-old married mother of two. I met my husband when I was 20. He was 22. Early on I knew that getting married and one day having children were things that I wanted. Having grown up in a married-parent household with a mother and father who’ve been together for decades, I’m sure, helped to frame my perspective and priorities in this direction.

    So, ladies, if you really want to get married, you have to get serious in your 20s. Otherwise, you’re gonna be ole girl at church or in the club with few prospects, as many men in their 30s who are unattached would prefer a woman in her mid-late 20s, especially if they are marriage- and family-minded.

  • G

    @ The Other Jess

    LOL, ok. This is what I don’t get about black women . NO other race of women sacrifice their own quality of life by deliberately limiting their dating pool, yet black women consistently subscribe to the “nuthin but a bm” mantra. Foolish. Black women are failing to realize that IR dating is not a choice at this point its a matter of survival. Black women outnumber black men by 2 million, even if you counted the convicts, gays, and drugs addicts.

    “Messed up men in every race” No one was disputing this but the fact is other races do not share the dire statistics of AA community, so you still put yourself at a better chance of having a quality life simply by dating out.

    A black women who had four partners is more likely to get an std than a white woman whose had 10. Ask yourself, why do you think this is??? Its because these so called “quality black or afro latino men” you so love are taking advantage of their low numbers and using their education and job titles to exploit the high numbers of available black women.

    If you want to grow old and lonely, or old with a child but no marriage, or perhaps old with no marriage AND no children, then by all means stick to dating black men. The rest of us are moving on.

  • Sue

    Your comment resonates with me. I’m also from a background where marriage is something you are expected to do. But as I have gotten older, I realized that it’s indeed a choice. And given that making a marriage work requires alot of effort from both parties, it’s important to marry someone you actually want to share the journey with, rather than just doing it to beat a certain time limit–(for women it’s usually age 30), or to fulfill a certain societal expectation.

  • Perspective

    @ W

    Not to get on the beauty topic – because I think thats a blatant deflection from the issue

    But the issue surrounding black women’s beauty, although I do believe that black women are NOT promoted as they should be – is that you had black women who were constantly throwing around SELF HATE arguments any time black men had anything to say about black women.

    If you talked about black women being overweight – YOU JUST LIKE WHITE WOMEN.

    If you talked about attitude – YOU JUST LIKE WHITE WOMEN

    If you talked about KOW – YOU JUST LIKE WHITE WOMEN

    If you talked about the matriarchal mindset of many black women – YOU JUST LIKE WHITE WOMEN.

    Then you had those women who were genuinely unattractive who kept trying to claim self hate.

    Example Nina Simone is not attractive – it ain’t because she’s dark skin, because Angela Basset (in her prime of course) although she still bad and or JIll Marie Jones are ATTRACTIVE – but many sistas would try to slip in the dark skin ugly girl like INDIA and compare her to the none comparable like AMBER ROSE – and then scream self hate. You don’t compare average women to video chicks and then scream self hate – that was black women’s attempt to try to slip black men up.

    Who do you think is more attractive – “AMBER ROSE”

    AHA!!!!!! I KNEW IT YOU DON’T LIKE BLACK WOMEN

    Nah chick – go back in the room and get me a fine dark skin chick THEN we will have a contest.

    black women are slick and brothas fall for that all that time. Because if a black women can prove that “OH HE’S NOT ATTRACTED TO BLACK WOMEN” as they see it, suddenly – all his complaints are just excuses to justify his lust for white women.

    What I really didn’t appreciate were women who tried to force Alek Wek down my throat talking about how BEAUTIFUL she was knowing damn well they would never want to look like the women. 95% of BW wearing weave yet wanna push Alek UP ON ME, like they wanna look like her – Why weren’t sistas shaving their heads then.

    But bottom line – If black men have an issue with the way black women look, or hate black women and don’t find them attractive at all. They wouldn’t be up in this forum – nor waste their time trying to get black women to understand WHAT THEY CLEARLY don’t want to understand.

    Black women will scream self hate and try to get men to co-sign an ugly chick all day up until you pick the ugly chick over them.

    “You like that?! Oh you could do so much better!”

    don’t let me say that – I’m shallow and arrogant if I say that.

  • __A

    @I got sense – I was not really disagreeing with or agreeing with your thoughts on marriage. I’m talking about the percentages vs. raw numbers. For example 76% of black women are overweight compared to 60% of white women. Since there are way more white women in America, that means that there are way more white women. But that percentage means that if you put 100 black women in one room and 100 white women in another room, there will be more overweight black woman in that room than room.

    I actually find these numbers interesting because 60% is very high, and white women make up the majority of women. Why is it that we never see any articles about them? Also because BW are poorer than other women on average and have less access to gyms and healthier food, I would expect white women who have these things to have a much lower rate. It’s obviously race baiting.

    Anyway back to your comment…I think marriage is important. I have heard about black kids from two parent homes not really doing much better academically. That doesn’t surprise me because black parents are not pushing their kids hard enough, but I look at it more from these other cases. We can’t pretend like the black community is doing what they’re doing in Switzerland or Sweden whichever country it is. We are not financially stable like these people. And people are less educated.

    My feelings about marriage are basically about commitment. You say these people have these values beforehand. True. I’m generalizing, but many men with good values who are with woman that they love and respect will want to marry her. Other men will string her along and say it’s just apiece of paper. Then 6 years later, you’ve had two of his kids oow, and he’s bored with you and found someone new. These aren’t just rappers and drug dealers doing this stuff. It’s average men.

    One of the writers on this site talked about how she was in a relationship with some man who never proposed for years. He was charming. They had fun together. He probably seemed to have good values as well. And there were many women commenting on that article that had similar experiences who seemed to have good values.

    Women mess around with men like this all. Then they get burned. You’re saying men of other cultures take care of their kids. Good for them. Sadly, a lot of times that doesn’t happen here except for child support and visits.

    I personally feel that men who are married are more responsible. And married men may do crappy things to, but he must have felt you were worth it to walk down the aisle with you and spend money on a wedding. I personally want my children to have a father, and I strongly believe marrying a man who is willing to commit who will sit down with me and plan to have children, decide what neighborhood to live in based off of good school districts, be involved with my kids, be there when I need him is much better than having an unplanned baby with a man who might not act right. I mean men not being responsible is something I don’t excuse, but when you know how these men act and you continue to have babies by men who don’t participate and then say but what about Switzerland, I just can’t understand it.

  • http://gravatar.com/lovegiraffes onegirl

    Thank you African Mami. Yes, I wish she was still here. I may never get married, but it would’ve been nice if she had the opportunity.

  • Maybea

    I genuinely don’t understand why people is calling him selfish. The comments seem to be taking everything to another level. I’m sure if he had kids the author would have stated it but they haven’t. How do we know he even wants kids?
    He’s not talking about having kids out of wedlock.
    Someone thinking things through and deciding that it isn’t for them doesn’t automatically equal destruction. He could decide to put his focus in other aspects of his life such as career, hobbies, volunteering, travel etc. Everyone has their own responsibilities and life plans outside of marriage.

    I don’t know this man so I can’t speak for him (the above were purely possibilities) but he’s obviously thought this through. It’s better to think things through and be honest with yourself and hopefully he’ll be honest with any future girlfriends.

  • http://gravatar.com/lovegiraffes onegirl

    @lola289, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I’m not sad that I’m in a serious relationship. I’m sad that if we do choose to get married my mother will not be there to witness it. I’m not in a relationship for my mother’s sake, if that’s what you’re implying.

    Honestly, your posting makes me think you’re a troll. Being a troll is not sad, it’s pathetic.

  • Perspective

    @ G just in time

    ” NO, we don’t want or need a continuance of Patriarchy. What we need is to be treated as equally human as men are in this society. We need to abandon archaic forms of thinking and realize we are in a new age and need new paradigms to fit this age. We are not going backwards. ”

    What I tell you.

    Give black women enough rope they will hang themselves every time in their fury.

    “We need to abandon archaic forms of thinking”

    So the women’s role are archaic

    yet – men building, maintaining, protecting, providing, and uplifting the black woman (as white men do for their community and women) BASED ON PATRIARCHY – is NOT archaic!

    What funny is you’ll have women say PATRIARCHY IS EUROCENTRIC – but then STILL have and expect black me to do all of the following which is still based on patriarchy. So the only part that black women are THROWING OUT

    IS THE MALE LEADERSHIP PART.

    Yup don’t I know it.

    Black men have become aware of this – and the ones who know simply are not going to participate tis all.

    Women will complain. Black men won’t participate – and the community will crumble.

  • http://[email protected] Lola Wants

    Most men in their 20′s are not looking to be married so that whole, you need to look for a marriageable partner in your 20′s even though men themselves are not focused on it, is a moot point. I am 26 and I know many of my peers (myself included) who were serious about their relationships and/or finding men that would want to get married but this was not the case for many reasons. It mostly stemmed from men not being serious about marriage or even interested in long term relationships. Most men aren’t ready to settle down until their very late 20′s early 30′s so that leaves many women off the hook up until their late 20′s. I don’t know many people my age who are married and it isn’t because they didn’t look or take it seriously. I’m sure there are people who meet the person they are going to marry at 20 or 21 but that is the exception and not the rule. And I find it problematic that you are centering the reason why some women aren’t married in their 30′s is because they have “played around” in their 20′s and weren’t serious about looking for a partner or relationship that would lead to marriage.

  • isolde3

    @Perspective

    Oh, give it a rest already. Do you honestly have nothing better to do than spam a black woman’s web space with your nonsense?

    Telling men to support the children they sire or asking them to lend a hand in the communities in which they reside is not a call to the “return of patriarchy” that (as LMO85 pointed out) never even left. It’s called being a fcuking responsible adult. This whole, “Oh, I’d love to be a better black man but I can’t because black women won’t let me” is beyond weak.

    Like others have said, you don’t even know what a patriarchy is. To you, patriarchy occurs when a man is sitting at the head of his dinner table, and that basic @ss view of yours doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface. Danielle (the author of this article) wrote an excellent piece on her blog about how black men in general were never full participants in patriarchy because as long as white men had the power to hire, fire, and disenfranchise black men en masse, control the majority of the economic resources (jobs, banks, financial institutions) and political power (legislative, executive, judicial), then the man who really headed that black family’s household wasn’t black.

    The fact that the majority of black women have traditionally always had to work to supplement their husband’s incomes and support their families should give you some insight into the fallacy of your black patriarchy. Are women the overwhelming majority of lawmakers enacting legislation? No. Are the lion’s share of US financial institutions controlled by women? No. So, then guess what? We still live in a patriarchy no matter how many single mothers are raising kids alone.

  • KE

    This really appears to be an outlier that disproportionately affects African-Americans. Most African-Americans I know who grew up with a two-parent, married household got married by the time they were 30; those who didn’t … most of them are still floundering from “relationship” to “relationship” and are single.

    It appears that many whites, Hispanics and others are married by 30, indeed, relatively firmly settled down.

    Given the 70+ percent OOW birth rate in the black community, it stands to chance that marriage will become more of an anomaly for us. Grown folks can’t expect to mimic successfully something they’ve never seen that is not positioned as a goal or commendable achievement anymore.

    The state of black folks today is directly related to single motherhood and non-marriage.

  • jourdan

    I applaud the author and her friend for the great points in this article! Also, I’d like to add that some Black single mothers really have focused more on being financially stable for their kids than looking for a husband. Honestly, I don’t think anything is wrong with that, especially if the kids have some sort of male-figure in their lives (uncle, grandfather, older cousins,etc). I guess this is becoming the norm, which I just don’t have a problem with. I know plenty of people who come from single-parent homes and have no criminal record, education/job issues, etc. So, having 2-parents isn’t just the solution to all of the problems. Educating kids and creating a positive environment for them is.

  • jourdan

    Surely, you haven’t met every single Black woman. It’s unfortunate that you would cast out an entire race of women because of whatever experiences you’ve had. Also, what makes you think it’s a woman’s job to be appealing enough for a man? Your wife is your partner, meaning you work together to make each other happy.

  • jourdan

    I agree with some points you have, but I know in some cases when a boy is growing up, they need some sort of male figure to help them become a man. Some Black women fail at doing this because maybe they didn’t have a father figure in their own lives. Why not take a young man under your wing and try to help them grow into a man? I’ve sat and watched Black men (some in my family, some of them are friends, etc) just sit and criticize the mother for not knowing what to do about her “out-of-control” son, but won’t help. I believe that even in 2012, it still takes a village!

  • jourdan

    “The BM didn’t see education as a necessity therefore the BW started to out-earn the BM… total emasculator…. “If she’s buyin the bacon and frying it up whats left for me to do? I may as well leave…””

    Girl…. you better tell it like it is! LOL

  • Pseudonym

    Ummm…you got lucky and met someone you wanted to marry at 20. I’ve been serious about relationships since I was 18 (never been interested in casual dating or hooking up), but haven’t met a man I want to marry. This is evident in the fact that I have been notoriously single for the past 10 years (now 28) because I have no desire to be in a relationship with someone I do not see myself possibly marrying.

    We only have limited control over whether or not we find the right partner. I’ve done singles events, dated on-line, introductions via friends, etc. etc. etc. I’ve never had a really bad relationship or even a real argument with a boyfriend, so I think it’s safe to say that there’s nothing horribly wrong with me (or I was too busy playing around in the club) but rather that I just haven’t found someone that I would want to marry yet. and it’s great that I didn’t just marry Mr. Right Now b/c that will make me sooner Ms. Divorced.

    The finger-pointing is unnecessary. Don’t travel on such a high horse. Like I said, you did lucky. You’re not necessarily married b/c you did anything special that the rest of us haven’t. A lot of getting married and having a good marriage is about being in the right place at the right time.

  • Child, Please

    I like this man’s thought process. It makes me want to get with him a bit, but I digress. While I’m sure some may harp on the fact that his parents are divorced, I think he makes valid points. Some of the reasons why listed have been reasons echoed here (not sure if others re-articulated his points; I haven’t gone through the comments) and he makes a point. Also, this guy seems to have his head on his shoulders and has thought it through. I do wonder though, form the tone of the article, why isn’t it okay for him to be single just as much as it is for women to be single? Is it because he has a wonderful personality? Is it that he said it wasn’t a necessity for him? (I’ve heard that before from some men and some women). I almost wonder did the author expect her male friend’s reason for being single to be the same as her female counterparts. I’m not sure what difference the sex would make in deciding to get married apart from what he listed, but it seems his reasons are no different than what I’ve heard women say and cornering him wasn’t really necessary other than to get a male’s point of view. Regardless, I like his viewpoint on marriage and his counter those that may have already boxed him in and he sounds like a good catch to me at least.

  • Child, Please

    I was thinking the same thing! And who is that in the pic? I feel like I’ve seen him before?

  • EbonyLolita

    I’m a 33 y.o. SBM with NO children & I came from a VERY loving 2 parent h/h. My parents were married for 40yrs until my Mum passed away in April. No extra kids, no fighting, no known infidelity. Basically no “scars”. All I know is a 2 family h/h where my father supported my Mum & vice versa. BOTH parents worked & I was the only child.

    Now I find myself fairly attractive with a great personality & so do quite a few men, & truth be told some women. But, at the end of the day a woman does not decide WHEN she’ll get married. She can only ACCEPT when ASKED! If your dating pool is not mentally willing to get married then what are your options. I DO NOT WANT to marry outside my race. That’s my RIGHT! I’m soooooo damn tired of ppl telling Blk women how stupid we are for NOT dating outside our race. If you’re willing to do so then that’s fine but respect my right to NOT do it.
    I’d rather be unwed with no children then get with a man that’s rushing to get married b/c he THINKS that’s all that I want. I want a man to want to marry me b/c he LOVES me & truly believes that I’m a good match for him & we can build an empire together. Whatever that empire is that we choose. *HeavySigh*

    A lot of times I read these article & leave it alone, but the comments in this thread are very disheartening. Chile ppl with all their “issues”, me included, is probably why our marriage rates are low. Work ya shyt out please or else you’re not good to yourself or anybody else.

  • Kay

    I don’t think this man is selfish, he’s actually being very honest and realistic about where his mind is at. I’ve met guys who will tell a woman what he thinks she wants to hear just to keep her around and string her along until SHE decides enough is enough. And it doesn’t seem as if he isn’t open to marriage. He just want to find a woman he can love. I think that’s better than being in a loveless marriage out of obligation.

  • Echi

    I think that’s the perspective I am coming from as well. But even among my friends who do not necessarily share that traditional African perspective, guys in their 40s who are not married get the proverbial side eye or, “C’mon, son!”

  • JJ

    He is absolutely right. At 30 (and a woman) I am of the same mindset. Especially being that the chances of finding a repectable man who would make a great husband in 2012 are slim.

    Most women get married for all the wrong reasons, because they want to show off for friends or they believe having a ring on the finger increases your status as a woman. Yet when they go home they are usually unhappy. Oftentimes the husband is miserable, cheating, checked out and already looking for a way out of the marriage. I do believe it is a valuable institution if you have truly found a soul mate who is on the same page and wants to do productive things together, but that is not usually the case.

    Life shouldn’t be about meeting social standards or impressing your friends — it should be about having healthy experiences that help you grow and be genuinely happy.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    Well damn G testify….lol I agree with you and and with some of the other jess comment. This would be a problem for me (other any woman) if I let it, but I am not because I am indifferent to guys mention in the article because they aren’t the only game in town. I see it as you can either let someone else rule your destiny…i.e. the princes who isn’t getting married and probably never will or control your own and expand your options. You are only doom to thos existence if you choose. Not saying men like the author’s friend and others like him are bad men but they aren’t suited for most women.

  • http://www.superstarisms.tumblr.com Courtney J.

    As my 22nd birthday approaches I can’t help but think about how unprepared I am to be a wife and mother. Mommies don’t take body shots of tequila in Prague and eat cereal for dinner because they’re trying to get to the toy at the bottom. I’m still too busy not listening to my own mom. According to a few commenters I’m head for 30-something unmarried doom. Oh no! Should I freeze my eggs now or wait until next year? I’ll pity myself in between my 4pm lecture & internship.

  • Ms. I-Jay

    I agree with you 100% The media has painted this fairy tale of marriage as simply two people falling in love and everything working out for them because they are in love. That deception has led many people to make marriage decisions out of their emotions without looking at the things that matter in a life-long relationship. I believe that marriage is a beautiful institution, but we need to be realistic in our expectations, what we expect from the union and, more importantly, what we have to offer as well.

    I am a single woman in my mid-thirties.I have made a personal decision to stop dating and “looking” for a brief period of time. I haven’t given up on relationships or marriage, but I do realize that if I want a successful union, I must work out my own personal issues. I cannot carry my personal baggage into a relationship and expect it to last. I need to be content with myself as a single person with my own unique gifts and personality. That’s another area where I think people miss the mark in marriage. They think being married makes them “complete”. The reality is that two truly flawed people will lead to a dysfunctional relationship.

    I believe the author’s friend in the post has come to his own conclusions based on what he has experienced and I pretty much agree with most of his points.

  • Maybea

    Why people *are* calling him selfish.

  • Mademoiselle

    I agree with the author’s 40 year old friend. I’d rather not live my life hoping, wishing, and dreaming of the day that some stranger comes in and magically makes it better. My life is already great now, so I choose not to waste all of my present dreaming about the future which isn’t even guaranteed. Whenever this currently-imaginary man that I just can’t live without materializes, I’ll make the most of that present, but until then I’m having a good time enjoying all the friends and family that already exist in my life (ups and downs included).

  • G

    @Ravi

    “having a child isn’t enough of a reason to marry someone that you don’t want to be married to.”

    “I don’t think this “masses” of men should be getting multiple women pregnant (nor the corresponding masses of women getting pregnant by randoms), but that doesn’t mean they should get married.”

    LOL only the black community thinks this way. No other race in the natural world, thinks this way. Despite the fact that marriage is a 6,000 year old institution that has proven to work best for child rearing, folks persist with magical thinking. And this folks, is why the black community will burn in collective flames.

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    In far too many of these comments folk keep putting time limits on others and themselves which is really stupid.
    Not everybody is ready for marriage in their 20′s, some not even in their 30′s but *gasp* guess what the world keeps turning and you keep living. Furthermore what is yours divinely, will be, if you have faith enough to receive it regardless of time, because some people haven’t lived long enough to receive it yet, or hurt enough, or matured enough, or really appreciated what it is to be single and content etc.

    Another thing I didn’t know so many men were SO concerned with how educated a woman is *strong side eye*

  • G

    OK, right, because dating IR has everything to do with white jewish men, LOL. At any rate black women are getting degrees at much higher rates than black men. Between the two genders I think black women will be ok, with or without government jobs.

    And burning bridges with who??? As if bridges with black men with their illogical thinking and unnatural behavior were bridges worth having. Black men have already have been dating out in mass numbers since segregation was dismantled. Black women are simply taking the hint and doing likewise.

  • G

    “Other races of women do make it appealing to their men because they DO subscribe to a patriarchal structure. ”

    Oh really?? White and asian women subscribe to patriarchal culture? Since when? Last time I checked, many European and Asian countries are DEVELOPED countries where women are afforded many opportunities and rights, therefore NOT patriarchal cultures like third world countries in African and Latin America. Get your facts straight.

    Asian women do not need to make an appeal to marriage when they are dating out a higher rates than asian men and make themselves available to the global community for marriage. White women do not need to make an appeal for marriage when they are too highly sought after by men of all races.

    Black women are the only race of women expected to PROVE why they should be protected and provided for while no other women of the global community has to do this.

    Black men able and available for marriage instead choose take advantage of the gender imbalance creating harems of women to use and exploit and then want claim that “black women don’t want marriage” or “black women won’t let me be a man” as excuses for their trifling behavior.

  • Ravi

    Actually, most of Western society thinks this way. I would venture to guess most people in this country idealize marrying for love, not because you got someone pregnant. Most of my white friends feel the exact same way. If you are getting married to a person that you are not in love with, solely because you have a child together, that is a recipe for a bad, loveless marriage. You might be the first person I have ever encountered that suggests it’s a good idea to marry someone you don’t love just because you have a child together. Avoiding loveless marriages is not the reason why black people are in the predicament we are in; every race has plenty of people that aren’t marrying someone just because they have a child together. If out of wedlock marriages is a problem, then the solution is getting married BEFORE you have kids, not continuing to go out and have children with people you don’t love and then force a marriage.

    I never argued that child rearing works best outside of marriage. I think you are doing some magical reading. I’m only saying that you shouldn’t marry someone, whom you would not marry otherwise, that is not a good match for you, just because you have a child together. Believing that such marriages will save us from the ills of poverty, stereotype threat, the academic achievement gap, the industrial prison complex. white supremacy, poor collective self efficacy, etc. is magical thinking.

  • Pseudonym

    “…quality young women who want to get married, have so many quality suitors to choose from.”

    When you become a quality young woman and not a person who trolls on a black women’s magazine websites being mean and nasty to complete strangers, then maybe we can talk.

    As many said, most men aren’t looking for marriage in their 20s and the higher up you go in education success (i.e. Ivy League, terminal degrees), the more you run into men who never got play most of their lives and want to spend their 20s banging all the B*s who wouldn’t give them the time of day in high school and during college (and I’m not even mad at them for it- these brothas work hard and if that’s how they want to take back some of their youth they spent studying instead of partying, I say let ‘em). The ones that are getting married are the Indians, Chinese, and Nigerians who come from cultures that value marriage more than Americans. Successful black and white American men seem to get married at a much slower rate.

    As a medical student, I can meet a nice guy and have to tell him that we’re going to have to put our first date off for 3 weeks until after exams (Currently doing that now.). You know how many awesome women he- a cute, nice, smart, young black doctor- can meet in those three weeks? I’m humble and realistic enough to realize that I am not the only fabulous woman in this world (Go women, WHOOT! hehehe). Not to mention that I tend to date men with school or careers that are just as demanding. Once, I met a medical resident, then he hit me up for a date but I was heading out the country for 3 weeks, then when I got back he was on his way out of the country to go back home for 2 weeks, and then with work and school it becomes three months later since you met that one man/woman randomly that one night. (“Has the window to call closed?”) I’m trying to get out of this “medical professional” circle at least, but I run into doctors in the most random places as if I have some sort of magnet.

    You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about b/c if you’d just look at the divorce rate or knew more than 10 married couples, you would know that everyone who is married is not necessarily in a good marriage. But, like I said, the fact that you’re so pathetic to come on this site being mean and nasty pretty much says all I need to know about you and where your opinion is coming from.

    Go seek counseling.

  • Pseudonym

    Also, no one’s blaming men! There are men not married because they haven’t met the right person either.

    Like I said, go seek counseling.

  • Mikela123

    “But, at the end of the day a woman does not decide WHEN she’ll get married. She can only ACCEPT when ASKED!”

    If this is the philosophy the majority of black women have in their approach to their dating life and relationships, no wonder so many are having problems.

    And Perspective claims we live in a matriarchy.Wow.

  • G

    @Perspective

    Note I said Protect and PROVIDE.. Again, you are sprouting that black women are not getting married because they don’t subscribe patriarchal roles and they won’t let black men be men, etc etc simply regurgitated nonense repeated on so many blogs and message boards. NEWS FLASH: Black women are getting degrees at higher rates than black men and outearning black men at higher rates.

    Did you not know in these other so called “patriarchal societys” non-black men in the global community generally outearn their women by signifigant amounts???? Do you not realize the reason why these non black women subscribe to this patriarchal thinking is because their men continue to play the role of main breadwinner??? Do you not know the main reason these non black men expect their women to provide leadership roles is because they have proven they are well and able to protect and provide??

    Soooo….let me get this straight. Black women are expected to be the main breadwinners, main providers while at the same time allowing black men who cannot provide to lead their households??? Black women are supposed to do this when no other race of women subscribe to this thinking. Again, fantasy island thinking for so many black men and naive black women who fall for this.

  • Cocochanel31

    That is truth to power OrangeStar!! Who can put a time/age limit on true love??????

  • Cocochanel31

    @Pseudonym

    You told the truth on that one gurrrl!!! OMG! My own FATHER tells me everything that you just said allll the time! Young men in this town are NOT looking for anything serious, it is what it is!! Soo true about the “back then you didn’t want me now im hot you all on me” brothas..that is the case with ALOOT of men in the DMV! They are able to do alll the freaking and playing in their mid to late 20′s- evne well into their 30′s now that they have a little something withall the women they lusted over and were passed over from in high school.

    The reality is black women outnumber black men in most towns and most men use this to their advantage. Alll that to say when it’s your time it is YOUR TIME! you will meet the right person when you are supposed to and that’s it..there is no magic formula outside of don’t lower your standards or change what you want.
    END OF STORY

  • Cocochanel31

    I know for a fact that I was not ready for a husband and children in my early to mid 20′s. I traveled the world and did what I WANTED TO DO without answering/being responsible for anyone and I wouldn’t trade THAT for the world. Let’s stop putting our personal wants/desires/expectations on everyone else. Everyone is different and wants different things at different points in life!

  • KE

    I’ve worked in a number of uber-professional, corporate environments. I keep reading here that most people are not ready to get married in their 20s or 30s, but that’s just not true. It’s an excuse and perhaps the evidence of delayed adulthood/extended adolescence of some, and a lack of having an example, especially as it pertains to the African-American community, as I wrote earlier.

    Educated, well-compensated white men are getting married in their mid-20s-early 30s. I have worked with dozens of these guys. They marry up and take pride in their wives and families. Their wives were obviously ready and willing, too.

    I work with a number of black women in their late 20s-early 30s with no prospects. I know a few of them and they didn’t get serious about securing a relationship until recently. When they should have been serious, they were focused on other, ephemeral things.

    We seem to enjoy making excuses or coming up with rationalizations. If anyone should be getting married and procreating, it’s those of us who are educated and economically stable. But we make the same excuses that our formerly incarcerated, OOW mothers and others make.

    Senseless.

    But I stand by my position.

  • Cocochanel31

    I guess Eric! Luckily my future is not in YOUR hands or in the hands of men who think like you! After all, only women in their 20′s get married, everyone else is doomed to be single forever right! LOL

    GOD Bless!!

  • Cocochanel31

    I work with a number of black women in their late 20s-early 30s with no prospects.

    Don’t you see the correlation being NO PROSPECTS! Let’s face it..their are more educated/stable black women than men, so that leaves our pool much smaller than that of white women if we wish to date someone in the same economic status or higher. Black women are at a disadvantage numbers wise compared to white women. Let’s not also forget..alot of these white guys come from a two parent household and are socialized to marry young – alot of our brothers don’t have that same background/mindset.

    Plenty of single black women out here who want a man with some sense..however..where are the hoards of men who are their equal?

  • Perspective

    “Oh really?? White and asian women subscribe to patriarchal culture? Since when? Last time I checked, many European and Asian countries are DEVELOPED countries where women are afforded many opportunities and rights, therefore NOT patriarchal cultures like third world countries in African and Latin America. Get your facts straight.”

    If this is what your belief is of what a patriarchy is – I’m not even going to bother arguing with you.

    “Asian women do not need to make an appeal to marriage when they are dating out a higher rates than asian men and make themselves available to the global community for marriage. White women do not need to make an appeal for marriage when they are too highly sought after by men of all races.”

    The overwhelming number of both Asian women and White women marry their own race – So I don’t even know where you are going with that one. Also, what does that have to do with the fact that BOTH of their communities are patriarchal and they subscribe to patriarchy. As I stated I think you need to look up the definition of patriarchy again.

    “Black women are the only race of women expected to PROVE why they should be protected and provided for while no other women of the global community has to do this.”

    Its not a matter of PROVING – Black women, as a rule, DO NOT – subscribe to a patriarchal structure like other races of women do with their men. The black community is CLEARLY matriarchal. That’s not even debatable and if you want to play semantic games as if you can’t see the OBVIOUS difference between the interactions of their group and ours and what their men control and our don’t, and what their women subscribe to (patriarchy) and ours don’t – I really don’t have much more to say. I’m not going to sit here and play these SEMANTIC GAMES with black women as if what I’m saying isn’t POINT BLANK OBVIOUS!

    “Black men able and available for marriage instead choose take advantage of the gender imbalance creating harems of women to use and exploit and then want claim that “black women don’t want marriage” or “black women won’t let me be a man” as excuses for their trifling behavior.”

    I won’t deny that there are black men who just want to play the field but you paint the picture AS IF all these men are the most desirable black men to black women. HOW MANY OF THESE DUDES would be considered lame or swagless? But I’m not her to get on that. At the end of the day – there is no Patriarchal community for him to add to. Marriage – has absolutely no purpose in a patriarchal sense when you don’t have a patriarchy.

    That means, no building, no legacies, no passing on wealth from the man THRU HIS WIFE – to his children.

    Sleeping around and getting THAT satisfaction is the result of not having any other GREATER PURPOSE – because WOMEN do not subscribe to it.

    Black men who marry out don’t BUILD because you don’t BUILD in another man’s house. 9 times out of 10 they aren’t in the black community – they have joined becky and her family in the suburbs or another suburb somewhere else.

  • Perspective

    This is what happens when black women don’t realize how much patriarchy is attached to THE ORDER OF COMMUNITIES AND THE ROLE OF MEN. Many really believe that marriage is supposed to exist in vacuum. They don’t understand that it has always been attached to community and the preservation of a community. They believe that a man and women simply meet, fall in love, and live happily ever after. Not to say that that can’t happen, but in a matriarchal community THAT CAN WORK, because nothing is being built. In a patriarchal community however, detaching marriage from the patriarchal structure and legacies will not produce all the things that she expects to come from black men AUTOMATICALLY.

    This is what happens when women sit around for decades CO-SIGNING themselves to death about how THEY THINK the world operates.
    How do you think white men maintain power? They have a patriarchal structure where they pass on wealth, legacies, and teach their children to CONTINUE WHAT THEY STARTED. You can ONLY have that underneath a patriarchal structure. If you can have it underneath anything else, WELL HEY, IT HASN’T WORKED YET.

    Women’s argument is that IT WOULD WORLD – if black men subscribe to the matriarchal structure where metaphysics rule and black men do all the things defined underneath patriarchy (except male leadership) and build, maintain, provide for, and protect black women. That is NOT going to happen. It is entirely too much work for men to do, that they may not even live long enough to see the benefits – NOT HAVE IT BE THEIR LEGACY, HAVE THEIR HEIR – which they pass on the job of what they started – and NOT HAVE CONTROL.

    I’ve done the math on this – IT WILL NOT WORK.

    I personally think many of these young women are too far gone and out of their minds. That’s not to say there aren’t many black men out of their minds – but the ones who KNOW and are aware – What women are advocating – simply will not happen. Its not socially FEASIBLE. Shaming tactics rather than REAL INCENTIVES WON’T WORK.

  • Perspective

    “simply regurgitated nonense repeated on so many blogs and message boards. NEWS FLASH: Black women are getting degrees at higher rates than black men and outearning black men at higher rates.”

    First part.

    And you’d think with so many black men pointing this out that black women would wake up and get it by now.

    Black women are getting degrees at higher rates than black men and outearning black men at higher rates.

    1) Black women have not surpassed black men in earning potential.

    2) 95% of black female businesses make less than 15K a year and have Zero employees

    3) Black women are NOT hiring themselves nor creating their own opportunities at the collective level as if they were about break earths atmosphere

    4)What are these degrees that black women are getting? Education? Nursing? Psychology? Communication?

    Check out out the HARD SCIENCES and ENGINEERING – you won’t see a lot of black women.

    Yea, you know that insignificant stuff that would be more applicable to BUILDING AND REPAIRING A COMMUNITY.

    How many black women have degrees that they could apply in their community. What are you even bragging about?!

    Ok a sista is making, lets say $120K – Where is she living? IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY?! – I bet you $100 she’s not.

    ” Do you not realize the reason why these non black women subscribe to this patriarchal thinking is because their men continue to play the role of main breadwinner???”

    Wait a minute 5 minutes ago – they didn’t subscribe to patriarchy – Now you are telling me they do. Allow me to remind you

    “Oh really?? White and asian women subscribe to patriarchal culture? Since when?”

    Come on yo… The logic of black women. For real?!

    You just said…. Amazing

    And I agree the pay gap is there – and that pay gap will continue to shrink because there is no patriarchal community. There aren’t men creating opportunities in the community and having 100 years of passing on the businesses through their families, e.g. The Waltons, Ford, Dupont, Pepboys (Strauss), Hilton.

    On top of the AVOIDANCE of men who are established because many black women don’t want to be (CONTROLLED) as they see it.

    “Soooo….let me get this straight. Black women are expected to be the main breadwinners, main providers while at the same time allowing black men who cannot provide to lead their households???”

    Nice strawman – Never said that – didn’t even remotely INFER THAT. Black men do need to get their financial game up – however if a woman does not subscribe to patriarchy as you stated earlier because she fundamentally doesn’t believe in men leading with the idea that men are to take on the most onerous of task with protecting, providing, and building up the infrastructure of the community, then it doesn’t even matter if the man is in the proper financial position or not because even if he was YOU WOULDN’T SUBSCRIBE TO IT ANYWAY.

    That is my point.

    NICE TRY

  • Perspective

    This is precisely why I tell black men that they need to get their finances in order FIRST, because black women will stand on the fact that so many black men do not have themselves together. If more black men had themselves together there would be NO OTHER EXCUSE NOT to subscribe to patriarchy OTHER THAN THE FACT THAN THEY JUST DON’T WANT TO. As I have already stated, most men are only going to see this if they are actually in the proper financial position. When they’re broke, women will say, “OH I SUPPORT YOU!” while you are living underneath HER ROOF. Many black women are like fake liberal white people. They don’t mind helping you out as long as you stay in your subordinate position, as soon as they see you about to surpass them, or even be their equal – they freak out, and they want to be able to hold that – “I BUILT YOU” card over your head. “If it wasn’t for me….” talk. The “I pulled you up from the ashes and dusted you off,” because you will never be able to be THAT PILLAR OF WISDOM or guiding light in your family or GREATER COMMUNITY. Women will say to me, why can’t the woman lead. I give them two answers. First, what will the boys see and secondly, I ask them, who should be leading the community (not household community) – Most say – in unison – “The men!” Ok, so tell me how men are supposed to lead the community if they aren’t even leading their own households at the collective level? [Crickets]

  • Perspective

    @ JOURDAN

    I agree with the whole mentoring thing – but here’s the problem and heres where it leaves a foul taste in black men’s mouths.

    You have women out here that are just plain Dusty Ninja Factories and they breed with whoever, indiscriminately.

    They boy has no guidance no discipline, he can’t gain anything from his father because he was a loser, and then at 15 he’s just one big fat problem.

    These women will then DUMP the responsibility on men who have themselves together – perhaps have their own families and act like “YOUR A BLACK MAN – IT’S YOUR JOB!”

    Hey chick I’m not the one who knocked you up.

    These same women LOVE to play the victim and throw the Dusty dude that fathered the child in the “ALL YOU BLACK MEN BOX!”

    And brother were silent for decades on that. Now black men are lashing BACK! Like – “Ahhhh HELL NAH!”

    You picked a man who was incapable of being a good father, a leader, or a role model but now you want to dump the kid on men.

    Then you admittedly have those men who are just mad that the woman didn’t sleep with them but slept with the Bad father – but NOW want him to play the surrogate father.

    It does need to be done – but I’m sure you can understand how that leaves a foul taste in DECENT men’s mouths.

    Picture me gettin with a stripper. I don’t think too highly of you, but I later discover the stripper is just out of her mind – but I was moved by her looks or whatever superficial stuff. 10 years later I role up on you like HEY!!!!!!!

    I have a daughter and she needs to learn how to be a REAL WOMAN. I didn’t think much of you back in the day – but I RECOGNIZE THAT YOU ARE A TRUE WOMAN – and I would like you to take on the responsibility of raising my daughter into a woman (JUST LIKE YOU) the one I didn’t want to get with.

    You would look at me like I’m crazy.

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    @ Coco yeah girl you got to make the most out of whomever tryna get at you in your 20′s and early 30′s < _ < forget about mutual attraction, shared values, being equally yoked and things like that.
    It's on you girl to make that happen with whomever steps to you regardless esp in your 20's cause you know you shot to hell after that right.

    ( the utter ridiculousness)

  • Cocochanel31

    Exactly Orange Starr! Most in their 20′s male and female- still trying to figure out who they are life/men/women etc..hopefully with age comes wisdom and better choice in partner.

    To hear the naysayers tell a woman has no value after 29 and will forever be alone and childless lol
    #byewiththatfoolisness

    Can the women who met good men after 30 please stand up lol

  • Cocochanel31

    I didn’t say that at all, but who said I wanted a ring on it in my early 20′s ? lol..in late 20′s now btw.

    I’ve never had a problem attracting/getting a man..not saying I’m the Belle of the Ball but my light has always shined and will continue to shine whether I’m 20,30,40,or 50.

    A man can take it or leave it ..his choice. I know plenty of women married/coupled up in their 30′s,40′s, and 50′s, some even in their 70′s ..to each his own. I can’t live my life by stats….

  • Gurugirl

    Do You! I am 44 and a woman and if it happens it happens if it doesnt it doesnt. I am still a fabulous person single or married.

  • Perspective

    “This whole, “Oh, I’d love to be a better black man but I can’t because black women won’t let me” is beyond weak.”

    Yea black men talking on more responsibility FOR THE BENEFIT OF WOMEN AND ON WOMEN’S TERMS.

    Women like you must really think black men are fools.

    Women like you don’t want REAL MEN.

    You want ERRAND BOYS

    And you believe in shaming black men with patriarchal standards of “OH YOUR NOT BEING A MAN”

    WHEN YOU DON’T EVEN BELIEVE IN PATRIARCHY ANYWAY. You just believe in shaming men with the idea of being a man that has now become DEFINED by black women and on black women’s terms.

    You got me F’d up.

    ” It’s called being a fcuking responsible adult.”

    The men I speak for are responsible – for themselves and the women and children they deal with

    But you have to be a fool to deal someone who has not demonstrated one lick of responsibility and then believe that once the baby comes that this guy is going to turn into a responsible individual.

    That’s like me dating a prostitute and then expecting her to be A WIFE – just because she gets pregnant. That’s how black women operate – too often.

    Actually from where I sit – when it comes to patriarchy – the man sitting at the head of the table and being respected ONLY HAPPENS when the black man is handling minimally the responsibilities of his family – but I do think men have to go beyond that.

    “Danielle (the author of this article) wrote an excellent piece on her blog about how black men in general were never full participants in patriarchy because as long as white men had the power to hire, fire, and disenfranchise black men en masse, control the majority of the economic resources (jobs, banks, financial institutions) and political power (legislative, executive, judicial), then the man who really headed that black family’s household wasn’t black.”

    She is correct – that’s what happens when a patriarchy collapses. Now black people are 100% on whites for employment, including black women – which they never bring up when they make this point.

    Question: So what makes black women qualified to lead? Seems to me they’re in the same position – all the jobs they get they get from white people – so just like they accuse black men – WHY ARE THEY FLEXING THEIR DEGREES AND JOBS?

    In oder to fix the black community you have to have men in the the proper position PERIOD if you ever even going to remotely put up a resistance to other patriarchal groups. The Asian man doesn’t control America, but I see his woman getting with his program. The Hispanic man doesn’t control America but I see his woman getting with his program. If you want to get stupid – YES white men control the world. If black are going to hold that against black men. I ain’t got nothing for them and will quickly attempt to jump the fence, because any race of woman could very well say the same thing. The difference is that minimally other races of men control the economic landscape of their communities. Other races of women seem to respect that, not saying that’s where black men should stop, but it seems as if black women are so hell bent on giving every justification to put black men DOWN as to not subscribe to patriarchy, black men even in that position wouldn’t even be could enough.

    “The fact that the majority of black women have traditionally always had to work to supplement their husband’s incomes and support their families should give you some insight into the fallacy of your black patriarchy. ”

    Another BLACK FEMALE MYTH. I think you need go take a look at those TEXTILE mills of the 1900′s chalk full of white women. You do realize that this country use to not have child labor laws and that money when to helping the parents. The prosperity of this country wasn’t always the greatest, but if you think all black women worked, I think you need to go talk to my grandmother and great grandmother who did not work.

    Yes the OVERALL country is a patriarchy – but as you women state – THOSE benefits coming from white patriarchy don’t extend to you, and the black community is UNIQUELY matriarchal. Any number of scholars will tell you that. When white people get on radios shows and talk about their failing white boys – they point right to the black community and say – WELL LOOK AT THEM – and without hesitation state that the black community is MATRIARCHAL.

    Here black women are, wanting to ARGUE AN OBVIOUS POINT.

  • LoLo

    why do people feel if you never been married you are missing something,
    either way you can have a fulfilling life.
    there are lonley married people and lonley single people
    there are married people who got sick this day would have to suffer alone or get a relative to care for them because their marriage mate aint about nothing and dont help them when their down
    there are single people have a support group of friends.
    people always talking about they dont die alone,but the hidden secret of some married people is it’s not their mate that’s supporting them sometimes its their kids or relatives because their mate is about nothing

  • Cocoa

    why people think marriage is the end all to end all

  • Cocoa

    why should someone get anyone just to be married -you have to live with that person

  • Perspective

    good enough – damn what’s up with all these brain farts I’m having.

    I need to eat something.

  • Pseudonym

    Again, you make no sense.

    If you don’t want to deal with black women, then why are you on a black women’s website? I don’t want to deal with lesbian women (not for a negative reason, but simply because I’m not a lesbian), therefore I don’t go trolling lesbian women sites looking for articles about dating and some people’s struggles with finding the right life partner and taking that as an opportunity to attack the single lesbians about how it’s their fault they’re single.

    You make no sense .

  • Pseudonym

    What seems to me to be the secret to being married: be a school teacher.

    90% of my classmates I knew who got married between 20-25 were all school teachers (and most of the guys married school teachers). I suspect there is some secret course they take sophomore or junior year that teaches female teachers that they have to get married by 25.

    I say that in jest, of course. But it’s just an observation I wanted to share.

  • Pseudonym

    (without being personally attacked again by Eric, preferably)

  • Pseudonym

    …and the kiss of death: buying a house in the suburbs out in the middle of nowhere. My friends in their 30s who have done this never have the energy or desire to go out once they get home, so they have less opportunities to meet people.

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    @ Cocoa 1:08 that was sarcasm in response to some utter nonsense on here that has since been removed.

  • Perspective

    This isn’t the first time this has occurred to me… I think some of you just need to leave and go ahead and jump the fence, because I can clearly see that what the black man has to offer will never be good enough until black men win some type of race war, slay white people, and enslave them for 400 years – only then call it even.

    I also don’t subscribe to black men going out here and “BEING RESPONSIBLE” which requires of him to maintain a community far past what women are contributing to it. The amount of physical labor that is required to establish something that mirrors or is greater than the white patriarchy that you admire the PERKS, but ignore what having a structure like that actually takes, is entirely too much work without the MEN who are doing all the work controlling what they are being CHARGED with creating.

    Its blatantly offensive for a woman to think that black men are going to be her chattel labor and put and EMPIRE together ON HER TERMS with little to no benefit to men other than the occasional CATS MEOW and MAN-STROKING. The black women’s magical ORIGINAL WOMAN, AFRICAN PYRAMID, GODDESS STATUS, is NOT enough of an incentive to build NATIONS!

    If you think WHITE FEMALE ENERGY is the reason that white men build and create as they do THEN YOU KNOW NOTHING OF PATRIARCHY – and have fabricated and made up your own ideas about it to serve your agenda. One minute white patriarchy is oppressive, the next minute its everything that you wish black men were doing.

    Ya’ll got us F’d up.

    The black community could implode for all I care, I’m not subscribing to anything like that – and I highly doubt other black men will. I think that reality is on my side when you look at the overall condition of the black community. You women really think you are going to be able to SHAME men into establishing and entire infrastructure that HE doesn’t control? You all still work for the white man and claim EQUALITY to your men because you have this white job – while the black man not only has a similar origin of employment but owns a business as well that he put together, but YOU think you are going to CONTROL because “I SUPPORT YOU?!” (Backrubs and BJ’s?)

    Awwww Chick you really got black men twisted.

    Like I said – you might have to just go over there to white men because he can afford to give you this POWER! that you women claim you want that won’t affect his OVERALL POWER nor infrastructure.

    Just know that before you go over there that WHITE SUPREMACY EXIST because its a patriarchy and white men will KILL to defend and maintain it – and only white women can make white babies which are needed in order to maintain “white supremacy” – so I really don’t know how you all are actually going to fit in there – but that’s on you.

    Frustrated, tired, disappointed, annoyed, black man signing out.

  • Cocochanel31

    right. He was probably the black guy noone wanted in school..you can always tell the type. Like you said, if black women are so horrible go elsewhere because this is a site for and by us!

  • http://gravatar.com/1tasneem Complicated SisterjustMe

    You sound extremely bitter. I found none of those points in that article. Nor have I ever met a black man that has espoused such sweeping generalizing rhetoric

  • Perspective

    “At any rate black women are getting degrees at much higher rates than black men. Between the two genders I think black women will be ok, with or without government jobs.”

    Delusional – where do you think you are going without your men, and same to black men – where do you think you are going without your women.

    And to address interracial dating – That is a resignation on the black community.

    From the black man perspective when black women aren’t willing to cooperate I don’t think black men with sense don’t have much of a choice but to jump the fence or be since. If you notice most of the black men who are over there typically have damn good jobs and are some of the most quality brothas the black community has to offer.

    Don’t deny it – because black women have been screaming for years – “white women take all the good ones” so don’t switch up now.

    The DISTINCT problem that black women are going to have in hopping the fence – not that I’m discouraging it, because a woman with matriarchal mindset is of no use to me anyway, but from a LOGICAL standpoint – black women do need to keep in mind that THE MAJORITY OF THOSE MEN – ARE THE MAINTAINERS AND KEEPERS OF THEIR COMMUNITIES. That means – same race babies – and there is a huge social benefit and other incentives to keep it EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE – because keep in mind that THEY HAVE AN INTACT COMMUNITY. They don’t need black women’s STRONG INDEPENDENCE and whatever else sistas want to advocate over there.

    Strong independent and matriarchal structures are for communities that are broken and are failed patriarchies. Blame who you want, but the black community is a failed patriarchy, accuse men or women for that – I don’t care, at the end of the day – I know that black women wouldn’t want the most ideal pristine patriarchy if black men put it on the table because they see it as oppressive POINT BLANK PERIOD. So there is no point in discussing WHO’S FAULT.

    ” Black men have already have been dating out in mass numbers since segregation was dismantled. Black women are simply taking the hint and doing likewise.”

    You say this as IF its your decision – and as if you just wake up one day and say – I’M GOING TO GET A NON-BLACK MAN and it’s just going to happen.

    Last time I checked – MEN APPROACH WOMEN. Sure there are a number of black women who will get snatched up EASY. The 125lbs ones. MOST CERTAINLY or the ones who act like BECKY – sure thing – but the masses?! Of these angry – “WE HATE BLACK MEN” WOMEN?

    Please. That’s a joke. I don’t know if that’s what you are trying to imply or make it STING to black men’s ears.

    You women think you can go over there – You won’t hear me complain.

    Remember BLACK MEN ARE WEAK AND HAVE NO POWER – so in all this time DECADES black men most certainly haven’t had the power to keep white men and other men from you.

    There hasn’t been any BLOCKADE of black men surrounding ANY black woman preventing you from access to white men. I hope you do realize that.

    But in your quest – I bid you “GOD SPEED!”

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