Jovan Belcher murdered his girlfriend

By now you’ve probably heard about Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher murdering his girlfriend, 22-year-old Kasandra Michelle Perkins, before taking his own life. And if you’re like me you shook your head and commented on how completely tragic the whole event is. Another black woman killed at the hands of her lover, another child turned into an orphan, another man’s life thrown away, and everyone else left to wonder why.

While many people struggle to sort out the details of Belcher and Perkins’ relationship, others are engaging in another discussion, opening a very contentious debate—yet again brought on by tragedy—about when we’re going to get serious about guns.

After Columbine, after VCU, after Tucson, and after Aurora, we all wondered if this time our nation would finally talk about our sick addiction to guns. But it didn’t happen.

Even while inner cities like Chicago became just as dangerous as Middle Eastern war zones, and black and brown bodies stained the city streets, folks like me wondered if the chaotic nature of mass shootings or the amazingly tragic death of a kid walking home from the store would finally, finally jolt us into that much-needed conversation.

It didn’t.

But then pro footballer Jovan Belcher shot his girlfriend, the mother of his three-month-old child, and himself and we are back here again, being bombarded by the pro-gun lobby who freak out when anyone dares to question the necessity of owning a gun.

I’ll admit, I don’t understand why Americans need to have guns.

In a country that purports itself to be a shining example for the entire world, I don’t see why citizens cling to their guns as if they truly make us safer; they don’t.

But America is nostalgic. We love to wax poetic about revolting against the British, our well organized militias, the romanticized Wild West, and the importance of the Second Amendment.

While some Americans foolishly believe their guns are the only thing standing between them and the government, the truth is it isn’t. As sports columnist Jason Whitlock so eloquently wrote over the weekend, your firearms are too short to box with Uncle Sam.

Writing about the Chiefs decision to play in Sunday’s game, just a day after Belcher shot himself at the team’s facility, Whitlock surmised:

We’ve come to accept our insanity. We’d prefer to avoid seriously reflecting upon the absurdity of the prevailing notion that the second amendment somehow enhances our liberty rather than threatens it.

How many young people have to die senselessly? How many lives have to be ruined before we realize the right to bear arms doesn’t protect us from a government equipped with stealth bombers, predator drones, tanks and nuclear weapons?

Our current gun culture simply ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead.

He’s right. Our guns do not protect us, but rather heighten the chance that something can go horribly wrong.Whereas arguments used to end with hurt feelings, or at most, a brused eye, these days guns can make the smallest arguments deadly.

In one of the most poignant articles written about this situation, New York Daily News columnist Mike Lupica argues “guns make heinous crimes easier.”

Lupica writes:

Maybe we will never find out what brought him to this moment, rage or jealousy or the need to obsessively control Kasandra Michelle Perkins, his girlfriend. Maybe it will turn out to be a brain injury nobody knew about, or something else that caused this madness.

But we do know this: Murdering this young woman, 22, and then killing himself in front of his coach and his general manager was made easy by a gun, because a gun always makes it easier.

And there it is.

Whether you believe in carrying a gun or not, it’s hard to argue that had Jovan Belcher, and George Zimmerman, and the Columbine shooters, and Jared Loughner, and so many kids in Chicago not had a gun, Kasandra Michelle Perkins and other victims like her would be at home today.

*Related reading: She Didn’t Have to Die: Why Kasandra Michelle Perkins’ Death Was Totally Avoidable

  • http://beautifulmindtss.wordpress.com beautifulmind

    While I understand your sentiments, I don’t support the anti-gun movement. First, even if guns are made illegal, that will just create a biggier black market for illegal guns. For example, illegal weapons have been flooded into innercities for decades. In that case scenario, some people would still be bearing arms while others wouldn’t making it impossible to defend yourself. I believe in the right to bear arms because if someone comes into my home with some foolishness, I can defend myself.
    I think we need to remember, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. What we do need is stronger regulation on guns. But to supppose you can rid society of guns like poof once that dog has already been unleased is naive.

  • Kacey

    I don’t think guns were the issue here – domestic violence is! This guy had some serious problems – if he didn’t have a gun he would have found some other way to harm this girl. We hear about men murdering their wives and girlfriends in the fit of rage all the time, and it doesn’t always involve guns. Just this past week a woman in NY was found beaten to death by her husband and I believe the weapon of choice was a baseball bat (or some similar thing). Domestic violence is the issue in this case, not guns.

  • http://lorrikey.com Lorri

    I agree with beautifulmind’s thought that people kill people even though I hate guns and don’t own one. But with several friends who believe they need one in their homes, what’s the better solution? Stronger gun laws that keep them from owning one to protect their family or a stronger background check that signal potential riskier owners?

  • Ask_ME

    I say we start putting the blame on the INDIVIDUAL that did the crime and not the weapon or the laws. Guns don’t kill people. People use guns to kill people.

    We need to address the root of the problem.

    I don’t know if this man was mentally ill or what, but it seems to me he was a ticking time bomb. Even if he didn’t have a gun I strongly believe he would have done some harm to her one way or the other.

    Again, guns don’t kill people. People use guns to kill people.

    I support citizens’ rights to have guns. Frankly I believe we need them in this day and age. I have no issue using a gun to protect myself against violence. So don’t blame guns…blame the people and their motives for using them.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    If he wanted to murder her with his hands he could..mental illness is to blame here and murder and mayhem existed way before guns ever did.

  • Ron

    This is a very naive article although I get the underlying sentiments of it. But tell the government, police, to disarm and then we’ll be the first in line to give up our guns.

  • EST. 1986

    I agree with the other comments so far. This isn’t about illegal guns. This guy could have still managed to kill his girlfriend by another method.

  • Kacey

    This is not a gun issue – this is a domestic violence issue. I’m not at all convinced that if Jovan didn’t have a gun Kasandra would still be alive – I think he probably would have found some other (probably more gruesome) way to kill her. Rather than reviving the tired argument about gun control, how about we address the real issues in this situation – the explosive combination of rage, jealousy and possessiveness.

  • Ron

    By the way anytime you quote Jason Whitlock, your article is usually a fail. This is the same man that regularly assaults Serena Williams for being too “fat” (he’s a morbidly obese man), said hip-hop destroyed black culture, and consistently takes racist stances against people of color in sports although he is black.

    BTW, there is not one mention in this anti-gun article against the
    Obama’s Kill List,
    Drones wars,
    Iraq or Afghanistan,
    Somalia or Yemen,
    nuclear bombs (it’s so weird that a lot of anti-gun folks have normalized and rationalize and are completely silent on nuclear warheads),
    perpetual CIA wars,
    War on Drugs (a war fought by ICE),
    America support of Israel,
    or the systematic bombing by the Obama Administration of African nations as if this doesn’t set precedent for our violent culture.

    Our country is founded on violence and genocide, and we’ve never stopped being the main purveyor of violence throughout the world.

    FAIL

  • JC

    Is the issue mainly about gun violence or DOMESTIC VIOLENCE? Knowing a few women who died at the hands of their partner by stabbing or strangling or burning or some other violent way that didn’t involve a gun, I wonder if Clutch could expand the discussion, especially in light of statistics that show black women more than any other group of women are more likely to be victims of domestic and sexual violence.

  • Ask_ME

    Now there is a report out that HE came home late because he was out with another woman. Yet he felt some kind of way about her coming home late from a Trey Songz concert?!?

    I agree the issue here is DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, something that disproportionately affects black women.

    I think it’s a challenge for writers of this site to address this serious issue because there is a fear of demonizing black men.

  • Sasha

    I am so disappointed. Yesterday I asked Clutch to post an article about this because I wanted their take on the situation and much like articles everywhere else, this one left me irritated and enraged. THIS IS NOT ABOUT GUN CONTROL/ AVAILABILITY!! I am sick of people trying to turn this into something it is not. This has nothing to do with gun control and everything to do with the actions Javon took that day. With or without a gun he would have found some way to harm her, the gun just made it easier for him and in the end made his cowardly decision to kill himself a lot easier as well. This is a case of domestic violence and he is not the victim. Kasandra and their now orphaned daughter are the victims. This is absolutely pathetic and I am nothing short of disgusted that this man would be put into the same category as George Zimmerman. I am done, you guys can continue to make excuses for Mr. Belcher but the responsibility of his actions is with him not with the NRA or the Second Amendment.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    how about BOTH domestic violence AND guns?

  • Sasha

    Someone who gets it!!! Thank you Kacey.

  • Pseudonym

    This!

  • Afrostyling

    Oh its about Guns? Not about the fact that this man is a coward? Please lets not blame mental illness. Why was she the only one he killed? This is about domestic violence and i not even surprised that y’all would take this route. Bunch of male identified women. He murdered he in cold blood. Shot her multiple times and took his own life cos he was a violent misogynist. Black women wake up!! These men are killing you at an alarming rate!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    people WITH guns kill people.

    our capitalist gun policy is based on the profits of the gun manufactures. even black people recite the line from the gun makers. black people suffer for gun makers profit.

    black people, anytime you find yourself reciting the exact same thing as the gun lobby you need to stop and think. have we been brainwashed? have we?

    other countries control guns and have far less violence.

  • Jess

    I agree. I thought that this incident highlighted the greater need for mental health care and treatment in this country, especially for African Americans. This man had serious issues, and obviously violent tendencies. Had someone recognized the warning signs (of which there must have been some), perhaps he could have been treated, and the young lady would still be alive to raise her child. There should be no stigma and no shame in seeking HELP, in not being well. We all need help at some point in time.

  • Trinity

    I don’t own a gun, but I have always been advised to purchase one for our protection. So I agree with @ Ask _ME, this is a very good point: “…he was a ticking time bomb”. With saying that, perhaps Kasandra could have saved her own life if she had a gun within her possession. The warning signs are always present; however, most do not expect the situation to end fatally. We really do not know how mentally ill Jovan was or if he was at all. What we do know problems existed and with a gun being present; it made for a situation to end tragically rather than [possibly] resolvable. Guns don’t kill, but I do believe a person choice does along with easy access. Before citizens are able to purchase a gun, I agree with conducting a thorough background check including mental, school records, history of drug abuse, and domestic violence. Not only that, the use of guns, owning one, or just being able to resolve conflict with one is glamorized. Easy access to guns are making the days of fighting and arguing less of an option depending on a person’s state of mind. Regardless of the end results – to gain more respect or get rid of the problem completely, it appears as if the best result and easiest answer is to grab a gun.

    I foresee more problems escalating between domestic violence, random/mass killings, and gang war until limits are placed on gun control. Regulations are needed coupled with mental evaluations. Just curious, is the question even asked, “how do you feel about using a gun?” If people are not afraid to use one and believe the use of one solves all problems; of course, they are quicker to shoot someone once a grievance occurs. Is the person you’re selling the gun to, a racist? If so, what will stop him from participating in hunting season of humans once threaten? There are so many different avenues to consider before a person is allowed to carry a firearm.

    Within this case—a woman shot 9 times, there was a lot of frustration and anger present and no one saw it coming? Or were they really paying attention? Either way, it is another senseless tragedy. Gun control is an issue, but if people don’t learn how to manage their anger, hurting people and angry people will find another way to destroy lives. If it is clutching after a knife; they can become angry enough to beat or choke with their hands. My prayer is with this family and I am hoping Kasandra’s mother receive counsel as well. Such a loss..

  • Trinity

    We need to address the angry black male issues we have in the black community! Great Point..

  • http://valsotherblog.wordpress.com Val

    That is exactly what I was thinking. There are a lot of colonized minds around here.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    So you don’t think he is bonkers for doing this? You think he was in his right mind?

  • Afrostyling

    No he was not bonkers! Was he entitled? Yes. Was he a coward? Completely. I’m pretty sure this asshole had been violent to her before. Y’all really ready to make every violent asshole a mental health patient. Miss me with that.

  • Shell

    CLUTCH!!! REALLY!!!??!! GUN CONTROL??!!!??

    HOW ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH OF OUR BLACK MEN??!!??!

    HOW ABOUT THE ISSUE OF OVERLY INSECURE, EMOTIONAL ABUSIVE MEN??!!??

    STOP JUMPING ON THE EUROPEAN MEDIA BANDWAGON AND START ADDRESSING REAL ISSUES. SMH

  • Pseudonym

    Every day there are stories about men from ALL backgrounds abusing women of ALL types. We need to tackle the reality that despite being able to work, vote, and wear pants, women are still seen as subordinates and are paid less, gaslighted as “crazy,” and abused by their partners. (and let’s not get on the absurdly high rates of girl molestation throughout the world.)

    Instead of being treated with higher regard, we just have a bunch of rageddy men complaining that since women want equality, they should pay equally on dates.

  • Ladybadurae

    whenever there is a gun crime or a mass shooting everyone, pro or anti-gun, focuses on the accessibility of guns and gun control BUT no one mentions America’s disregard of mental health. Everyone isn’t going around shooting each other, many of these crimes are a result of mental illness. Until America acknowledges that there are sick people who don’t even know they are mentally ill and/or not seeking the help they need, the cycle will continue. Guns can harm and guns can protect one from harm. It’s all in the mind of the gun user. Talk about mental health and maybe i’ll listen to the gun tirades.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    I don’t think the article is naive at all. To say the gun wasn’t at least part of the issue is absurd. No matter how you word it, guns kill people,they were invented to do so. It can be a domestic violence issue or a mental health issue BUT it is also a gun issue because the victim was shot. Yes he could have killed her another way, but having the gun made it easier and quicker. If you have a gun, your intent is to do harm,whether you call it protecting yourself or exercising your Second Amendment right. People want to carry guns because they think others have guns, where does it end?

  • apple

    how about its about both? this is mostly about domestic violence, but lets not act like guns don’t make rash decisions become disasters or guns make things easier to attempt.. in this case if he wanted to kill her he could have done it with anything , but in other cases like on the street, guns give stupid people the power they don’t have with their bare hands..

  • PJ

    I agree with everyone who took issue with this article. It was not a gun problem, it was an an abusive male problem. It was the twisted mind of the killer that was the problem. The mentality of the person behind the gun is the problem. A person in his or her right mind can own a gun and use it for protection / recreation, someone who is not in his or her right mind is likely going to use it for bad things. Bottom line the real problem is why the person behind this gun felt it was okay to pull the trigger and kill his girlfriend in cold blood. Please stop ignoring the real problem here and trying to sympathize with the violent man who committed this horrible act.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    Let me explain…if he had lived do I think that he should have gotten off and plead crazy? NO! That is not what I am saying. I think that for someone to act in rage and jealousy and pride and take someone else’s life something was not clicking in that brain of his…not saying that he is not completely guilty but there is some crazy in there?

  • Afrostyling

    the only thing that was not clicking in his brain was that a woman would dare have a life without his permission.

  • Rachelle

    I don’t believe this particular issue has anything to do with gun control but more about mental health. A mentally healthy person doesn’t just kill himself and the mother of his child. This man was obviously sick. Depression can kill a person before a gun will.

  • LemonNLime

    I couldn’t say it any better.

    People who believe outlawing guns will save us are living in a fantasy world. Canada, a country where guns are illegal, has CONSTANT weapons trafficing between their boarder with the US. A few years back there was a huge massacre in by 1 man with a gun in Norway, a country that bans guns. Crap, even when I lived in France, a country that bans handguns, I had a guy hit on me by telling about the collection of guns he kept (don’t ask me why he thought this would impress me but I smiled and walked away).

    Outlawing guns will push them on to the black market, meaning 1. law abiding responsible people will lose their ability to protect themselves from crazies and 2. people who are already breaking the law, will CONTINUE breaking the law. Drugs are illegal so is rape, what makes you think banning guns will make criminals sudden go “Sure I’m involved in the drug game and I could get prison for that, and that’s cool, but carrying a gun? I think not sir!

  • Jasmine

    He killed his girlfriend and then himself. He didn’t kill his baby, mother, coaches, security, or teammates. This wasn’t a murderous rage or someone ‘snapping’ and going on a killing spree. He had plenty of opportunity to kill several people and he directed his anger and rage at his girlfriend with intention.

    What allowed this to happen isn’t the access to firearms, its lack of accountability that black men have towards black women and children and the bizarre behavior of the media and black entertainment to defend black men recklessly , to the detriment of Black women. Lets stop blaming gun control, head injuries, and jealousy and hold the murderer of a young women and new mother accountable for his actions.

  • Trinity

    When I worked in several domestic violence centers, I came across women from diverse backgrounds. One area is which I learned is white women were more likely to not disclose that information. One situation in particular that comes to mind was this white woman married to a top executive. After being laid off from his job, he kills himself and their children. He did spare her life. Since this woman suffered from domestic violence for years, it was mind-bogging of why she didn’t leave years prior. Money wasn’t the issue at that time. However, she came from a very affluent family and status was more of an importance.

    As you stated, it is interesting to show the statistics. Domestic violence is a major problem across the board. With unemployment and under employment, drug usage, men and women are becoming angrier which produces more domestic violent situations. I read and hear about the different incidents. If the stats were shared, maybe it could assist with placing restrictions on gun laws and evaluating mental statuses as people situation changes.

  • Afrostyling

    Sasha, Im actually not surprised at this post by clutch. Black men are never held accountable when they kill black women. According to the CDC, black women have a maternal homicide risk about seven times that of white women. Black women ages 25-29 are about 11 times more likely as white women in that age group to be murdered while pregnant or in the year after childbirth.

  • Hehe

    I’m highly dissapointed with Clutch. First you didn’t have an article about this situation yesterday and now you focus on Gun Control? This is about Domestic Violence in the Black community! You didn’t even focus on how the media kept calling the victim Kassandra, Jovan’s baby mother and not her name. How black domestic violence victims are often invisible in the media.

  • Liz

    This article is highly inappropriate and misguided. I don’t see what the deceased Mr. Belcher did, has to do with gun control…. at all… not even remotely.

  • Starla

    Why are so many people convinced he had mental issues? F*k guns and who ever created them.

  • Jasmine

    It ends when men stop thinking the best way to handle a dispute with your girlfriend is to pick up a gun and shoot her.

    I have a pistol permit and own a firearm not because I think the others have guns so I should have one too-that’s an incredibly childish reason to own a weapon that could end some one’s life. I own a firearm because society doesn’t believe the lives of black women should be protected, so I protect my own. Society doesn’t teach men to respect women or their boundaries, so I maintain my own with the help of the 2nd amendment. Our culture isn’t defending black women lives and creating safe spaces, so I defend my own.

  • edub

    Way to go, Clutch. Just brush over a WHOLE slew of issues and point the blame squarely on a piece of steel, that, of course, needed a crazy person to load it, point it, squeeze the trigger, and fire round after round into the individual.

    This article is highly irresponsible and should be pulled. Sure, we can have a conversation about gun addiction in the US, but not at the expense of Kasandra and her now motherless child.

    This is the result of a irrational, emotional, selfish male who should not in ANY way be made to be a victim. There is no rationalization of his crime. I hope he burns in hell.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    @ms. Information

    Jealous rage does not equal mental illness…

  • Amber

    You all (Clutch) are falling right into the media trap of turning every gun-violence incident into a diatribe about gun control. STOP IT. This article is all over the place, feeding into some misguided paranoia.

  • edub

    Wow, thanks for sharing that statistic, Afrostyling. It sent chills down my spine.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    It is childish and it is a real reason why some believe they should own a gun. Obviously want to exercise your second amendment right and that’s your business. Should every black women own a gun because “our culture isn’t defending black women lives?” If you’re in a relationship where you feel you need a gun to defend yourself, you need to make better decisions about who you associate with.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    Psych.org

    Morbid jealousy describes a range of irrational thoughts and emotions, together with associated unacceptable or extreme behaviour, in which the dominant theme is a preoccupation with a partner’s sexual unfaithfulness based on unfounded evidence (Cobb, 1979). It is noteworthy that individuals may suffer from morbid jealousy even when their partner is being unfaithful, provided that the evidence that they cite for unfaithfulness is incorrect and the response to such evidence on the part of the accuser is excessive or irrational. Healthy people become jealous only in response to firm evidence, are prepared to modify their beliefs and reactions as new information becomes available, and perceive a single rival. In contrast, morbidly jealous individuals interpret conclusive evidence of infidelity from irrelevant occurrences, refuse to change their beliefs even in the face of conflicting information, and tend to accuse the partner of infidelity with many others (Vauhkonen, 1968).

  • Sasha

    Stop telling the truth on here, it may get you shot then a writer here will likely blame you or something arbitrary for what happened. This right here is bad writing at best and extremely irresponsible and dangerous at worst. The fact that so many people here are saying he had a mental issue is so typical of the Black community when it comes to the Black man and depending his behavior. No accountability whatsoever. They do it with Chris Brown who beat the living shit out of Rihanna so why not go to bat for a murderer. It’s really fucking sad, excuse my French but I am so angry right now and I think it’s time for me to take a break from here. For a website dedicate to Black women it’s funny how a story of a Black women being killed shows no respect for her life or what happened to her.

    People want to blame it on gun control but one question: WHO PUT THE GUN IN HIS HANDS AND PULLED THE TRIGGER? People want to blame it on a concussion: DID HE NOT CONTINUE TO GO OUT ONTO THE FIELD AND COLLECT CHECKS FROM THE CHIEFS? People want to blame it on mental issues: WHERE IS THE HISTORY OF MEDICAL ILLNESS?! To all the people who want to defend this man and deflect blame, to take responsibility away from his actions and put it somewhere else, to you I say fuck you not once, not twice but three times.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    Morbid jealously is.

  • Nicole

    Gun laws are not the issue.

    The issue is immaturity, low self esteem, someone who needed anger management, and to stop being insecure!

  • thequietvoice

    how about mental illness?

  • Sasha

    Afrostyling I know your intention was to impart knowledge but all your information has done is brought me to tears. I’ve never been a victim of domestic violence or know anyone who has but this situation has touched me in a way that’s surprising to myself. For the media to continue to refer to her as the girlfriend/ baby mother, rarely by name while expressing sympathy for Javon and regarding him as a victim, and then come to a site that supposedly is a space for Black women and see them doing the same thing except taking it a step further by completely taking responsibility out of his hands, it just shows how disposable the lives of women are, especially Black women. I’m glad I’m working from home today cuz it wouldn’t be a good look to be crying in an office where 94% of the people I work with are men.

  • thequietvoice

    and he was mentally ill. jealousy alone doesn’t cause you to kill others then yourself. something snapped in his brain

  • Kacey

    If you actually took time to read the comments, you would note that there are very few people taking a pro-gun stance. What the readers and commenters are expressing is a combination of disgust and outrage that this site (which is supposed to be dedicated to issues affecting black women) would (1) wait several days to report on the story of a black woman being murdered in cold blood by the father of her child, who, as an athlete, happens to be a public figure and (2) when they finally do address it, they choose to ignore the larger issues of domestic/partner violence, which black women are disproportionately affected by, and instead use it as a platform to revive the tired, side issue of gun control. And, yes, It is a side issue, and not the main issue, because the gun was only the instrument he chose in the moment to use against her – if they had been in the house, he may have chosen the largest knife in the butcher block to stab her to death, or bludgeoned her with a heavy lamp, or, given his size, he could have just pummeled her with his fists. Either way, he acted with intent to harm her, for what seems to have been out of jealous rage, and because he felt he had some sort of right or justification to do so. And THAT is the issue!

  • Nicole

    Starla the issue is not the gun.

    The issue is that we had a man who was immature, had low self esteem, was insecure and controlling.

    As far as we’ve come socially even today men are made to feel that its not okay for them to show any emotion other then anger. So when the sh*t hits the fan instead of saying “you hurt me” they go into a rage when in fact the emotion their feeling is not anger its heartbreak but they do not know how to articulate those feelings because they dont want to be labeled as “soft”

  • thequietvoice

    Guns are apart of the issue, but the main issue is his mental health. The gun didn’t just up and leap into his hand. It’s inanimate. He got to a point mentally where he felt he had to kill her and kill himself over foolishness and the gun was the most available option in his mind.

    That’s a sickness of the mind. Whether it’s extreme jealousy, cowardice or guilt that drove him to it. It’s all mental.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    So now your diagnosing him? We don’t any details. There are reports that there was no history of violence in the home. The media is calling it head trauma from playing football. We may never know exactly what happened. But every time a black person picks up a gun and kills someone, its not a mental health issue.

  • http://www.geekmommarants GeekMommaRants

    I do not understand the relevance of guns in this story. This man could have killed his girlfriend with his bare hands. This is an instance of a control freak gone crazy.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    How is he not being held accountable? No one is excusing his behavior. what he did was tragic and inexcusable. If he didn’t have the gun, would she still be alive? That’s up to speculation. But, for whatever reason he shot and killed someone because he had access to a gun. Period.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    Gina I am not diagnosing him, stand down. Every time any one can pick up a gun and kill an innocent person, there is something WRONG in their mind to think that doing something like that is OK. It is not OK…what stops you from doing something like this? Are you rational? The opposite of rational is irrational. Clearly there is something mentally wrong with someone who would let his jealously overwhelm him…he also committed suicide which IS a CLEAR sign of mental illness.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    dear black people.

    when you find yourself agreeing with the NRA it is time to check yourself.
    what’s next? solidarity with the KKK?

  • Dissapointed

    This is not Jet magazine Britni (you know, the magazine [pamphlet] for people who like to read but not that much! copyright Cedric the Entertainer). This is Clutch and readers expect more from its writers than a lazily researched and written op-Ed, capitalizing on the hysteria brought on by charlatan journalists such as Jason Whitlock & Mike Lupica.

    Comically, this article from such a respected outlet as Clutch is akin to Will Ferrell’s classic character Ron Burgundy from Anchorman botching his sign-off line “Stay Classy San Diego” with “Go Fcuk your San Diego.” I feel like the over-the-top characters who were so sad with their trusted anchorman.

    Maybe, like those characters, I put too much faith in Clutch to be cutting edge, scholarly yet accessible, but above all, the place where the mainstream media couldn’t filter in without a critical assessment.

    But it’s cool. We all have off days. I know Clutch will get it together-quickly. And please don’t get me wrong, Britni & Clutch don’t need me to tell them that they can post whatever they like and their opinions are respected, but don’t treat a reader like she isn’t well-informed, nuanced, or letting bs slide.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    Thank you! A friend of my dad’s was brutally murdered a week ago…STABBED in the head 60 times. Should we outlaw knives now?

  • LadyP

    @Afrostyling

    Thank you for sharing this information.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    Had he choked her, what would the byline be?

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    @ms information
    He committed suicide after he committed an act he knew he couldn’t step away from. It was most likely guilt and not mental illness. He knew what he did was not OK.

    You hear about women going into jealous rages all the time. Although not this extreme, you always here stories about scratching up cars, throwing items, busting windows etc. Are they mentally ill as well?

  • thequietvoice

    any kind of violence, domestic included, is a form of mentally ill behavior. It represents a sickness of the mind, an error in logical and rational thought. There’s no logical reason to resort to any kind of violence.

  • http://www.geekmommarants GeekMommaRants

    With due respect, the byline would be Domestic Violence which is what this story is about. A control freak, abusing the one who loved him, ya know, the daily story in our community.

  • Starla

    @ Nicole..I am well aware of the meme “People kill people, guns don’t kill people” and all variations of this. I am aware that someone intent on killing you will try every which way possible.

    However, for me, I maintain my opinons on guns. I had an uncle who was killed by someone holding a gun. If that person did not have a gun perhaps my uncle would still be alive today, as he was a very strong man. Guns take away that posibility of a fighting chance. Perhaps he could have fought off his attacker, even if they had a knife. This is why people use guns because it gives them an upper hand in an attack. Even the most killed martial arts expert will have little luck being faced down with a gun. So, for for me, I believe fully in gun control, so that people have a fighting chance under an attack. Maybe they wont succeed, but they still have a chance.

  • That Nightlife

    Here’s an article that touches a more on the racial and gender issues at hand.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    “Guns don’t kill people. People use guns to kill people”

    Whenever I see this sentence it irks me to no end. What else are people going to use guns for, they are weapons specifically designed to kill. What other motive can someone have for using a gun other to do bodily harm?

  • http://gravatar.com/chanela17 chanela17

    are you serious?!?! what about his intent on killing the mother of his child?? what if he stabbed her instead? owning a gun has nothing to do with this. most people who own guns are responsible.

    i would like to own a gun simply because i no longer trust law enforcement to protect me. they are never there when you need them and they respond slower when it is a black person. i’m putting myself first! with proper training and discretion, guns are not bad.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Funny you mention Canada:

    In Canada, there were 542 homicides in 2000 resulting in a national rate of 1.8 homicides per
    100,000 population. By comparison, there were 15,517 homicides in the U.S., resulting in a rate
    (5.5) three times higher than Canada’s.

    Guns will always be available in the black market, but gun control makes it more expensive and adds a barrier to getting a gun. To own a gun does not make you safer. If that were the case, then the old west would have been relatively very safe, considering most people were armed. Arming everyone just makes it easier to handle disputes with guns. Being armed doesn’t make you bullet proof. If defense was the issue then folks would be investing in body armor.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    arming both sides doesn’t create a safer situation, it creates a shootout. No one is suggesting you can rid society of guns, but you can definitely make it a lot tougher to get one.

  • The Other Jess

    Maybe if Kasandra Perkins had a gun to defend herself she wouldn’t be dead today.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    You know it can be about both. Saying that accessibility of guns was a factor in no way absolves him from the guilt of his heinous act.

  • That Nightlife
  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    If you actually took the time to read the comments you would see that everyone is not writing the same thing. Some people are expressing your sentiments while others are saying exactly what James is referring to — “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”

    Guns do kill people and people use guns to kill people. More specifically, massive body trauma and blood loss due to bullets kills people. Of course, a person is usually pulling the trigger (I have lost friends to accidental gun discharge with no one pulling the trigger), but to say that gun availability is not a contributing factor to the gun violence we see in this country makes no sense.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Or maybe they could have gotten into a wild west style shootout and their baby could have been hit. Having a gun offers no protection from bullets. We don’t know what would have happened if she were also armed, just like we don’t know what would have happened had he not owned a gun. We do know that his owning a gun made it a hell of a lot easier to murder her.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    cosigning ^^^^

  • Afrostyling

    Sasha, edub, Lady P, sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I was in total shock reading the stats too. And the report is from 2009! So imagine what it is now. Black women need to wake up. The “black community” will sacrifice you for black men. Just google this article “Murdered Pregnant Women: The Racial Divide” and read it. Pass it on to any black woman you know who is involved with a DBR.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Considering he killed her with a gun, it seems as though that it is very much one of the issues. It clearly isn’t the only issue, but who said a crime like this only can have one issue?

    I’m with Starla, F*** guns.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Maybe if her murderer didn’t have a gun he wouldn’t have shot her. We can always speculate.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    ^^^ This article is on point. Everyone should read it to get a fresh perspective on the matter.

  • Billy Paul

    All the facts are not in; hence, it may be more logical to refrain from the above comments.

  • The Other Jess

    The bigger problem is the acceptance of domestic violence, the mindset of misogyny overall and anti-black womanism specifically in the black community, combined with the overall culture of violence-for-entertainment in the U.S.

    The problem is not so much the weapon of choice used to act out these dysfunctions, as it is the the mindset that brings about this dysfunction in the first place. These issues, combined with the easy access to guns makes for a lethal explosion. The issue is not guns alone. In the U.S. anyone can have a gun, thus any problems that the gun owner has may be acted out against someone else. Even if she didn’t die, what about if he beat her everyday, raped or stalked and terrorized her? Would it have been any less harmful if he choked his wife to death, beat her with a bat, punched or kicked her, or raped her? NO.. Just as harmful, imo.

    It’s not the tool used to commit the violence it’s the mindset.

    All men have penises – however all men arenot rapists. A man can use his penis for violence, however removing all penises from society will not end violence. Some other tool will be used as a weapon if the deeper issues of a violence culture, misogyny and anti-black womanis remain. Ultimately, the tool used for violence is not the influencing problem, although it can aggravate a problem. The mindset of a person and the mindset of the society he is in is the problem.

    Weapons of all types have been in existence since time immemorial, but when people had more respect for life, less hate of women and Black women specifically, and were generally more civilized violence was minimal. How about looking at the factors that have made so many Black men hateful towards Black women?

  • The Other Jess

    this too!

  • The Other Jess

    “HOW ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH OF OUR BLACK MEN??!!??!”

    WOW – A crazed, controlling narcissistic Black man just shot and killed a BLACK WOMAN and it’s still all about our poor, poor victimized Black men! Mind boggling.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    good article

  • The Other Jess

    people without guns kill people too. its their mindset.

  • http://twitter.com/BrownSugar_Bbyy Ashley. (@BrownSugar_Bbyy)

    I’m glad I am not alone in my disgust towards this article. This piece is so far to the left of what is really going on that reading it was painful, and the only solace was the comment section. I wish Clutch would get it together (and by get it together I mean their article content and *authors*), or stop trying.

  • Kam

    Brainwashed? No. To the contrary, I’m inspired by the way guns were instrumental in the civil rights movement (oh, you thought it was just non-violence?) and the way that gun control was used to keep Blacks from defending themselves. I’m inspired by Deacons for Defense and civil rights fighter Robert F. Williams, who will never get any holiday or recognition because of their advocacy of the use of guns. (For those interested read “Negroes with Guns” by Robert F. Williams and “Radio Free Dixie: Robert F. Williams and the Roots of Black Power. by Timothy B. Tyson.)

    Black people should have every right to defend themselves as the minority in a country that is hostile to them. The problem is that we turn the guns on each other instead of using them for defense. Most likely due to the fact that we pretty much hate each other and we’re taught to hate each other pretty well from a young age. We have no respect for guns because we fear them instead of looking at how they can protect us as a community.

    Colonized mind? I think not.

  • edub

    This is why I LOVE clutch comments. Thanks. I have NEVER heard of Robert F. Williams but a quick wiki look has me inspired.

  • IW

    Agreed. Thank you!

  • The Other Jess

    the behavior of the media to defend black men recklessly t(or any other men) when it is to the detriment of black women is not bizarre.

    it is intentional.

    this society in general, including most black men and even many black women, would love for black women to be, at the very least, dominated, docile and controlled by any means necessary, and ultimately to disappear, or be eliminated. period.

    sad but 100% honest.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Penises aren’t designed specifically as a tool of rape. Guns are specifically designed to kill people. A better analogy would be some other type of tool specifically designed to carry out the activity you are trying to prevent. Removing all guns from society would remove gun violence and to some degree diminish the capacity for violent activity. This is the reason you can’t own biological weapons or fully automatic assault rifles. These weapons have far too much destructive capacity. In countries where they have managed to limit the availability of guns, the murder rates are lower than they are here.

  • The Other Jess

    Ravi, you idiot, when he flew into a rage, he could have killed her with any weapon, not just the gun. if the gun hadn’t been there he would have just tried to kill her another way. the issue isn’t the gun. it’s the man (the demon) who used the gun on kasandra.

  • The Other Jess

    what? afraid that maybe some poor abused woman will pick one up and use it to protect herself from a violent male? or are you an abuser yourself? thus of course you’d be against self-defense.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    @The other jess, so’s your face :P

    I didn’t say he couldn’t have used another weapon, but that’s moot. He didn’t use another weapon, he used a gun. We don’t know what would have happened if all he had was household tools or his bare hands. You are assuming he flew into a murderous rage. I’m pretty sure the details have not been released.

    Saying that the gun was not at issue is like saying that airplane security wasn’t at issue in 911 because Bin Laden could have used a truck bomb or tactical nuke instead. Or for that matter, why disarm people that go on planes. They could just use a ceramic knife that is undetectable with modern scanners, so we might as well let everyone be armed.

    I never said the man with the gun wasn’t an issue. Try reading what I wrote a little more carefully. I’m saying that they are BOTH the issue. You do know that it doesn’t have to be just one issue at a time?

  • The Other Jess

    GUNS ARE NOT THE WHOLE PROBLEM. As i said already, all men have penises – however all men arenot rapists. A man can use his penis for violence, however removing all penises from society will not end violence. Some other tool will be used as a weapon if the deeper issues of a violence culture, misogyny and anti-black woman is remain.

    Got it? Good.

  • Jaslene

    Why are you being so bitchy?

  • Mc

    Great points in this article as well.

  • Kacey

    @Ravi: I have taken the time to read the comments. No where have I stated that everyone is stating the same thing – I was simply responding to this opinion James seems to have that the people here were taking a pro-gun/pro-NRA position on this.

    Either way, I won’t go back and forth with you. Good Day!

  • Smilez_920

    This article is a tad but misguided and really takes the focus off of the victim . Domestic Violence and mental illness are two factors that a lot a major news sources seem to be focusing on in regards to this incident.

    No , I’m not using mental health as a shield for this man. But when your here a story about a person man or woman killing themselves and their lover , you have to think about the mental state of that person.

    Domestic violence: we have to, especially as black women teach our daughters about the dysfunctional behaviors of men and how those behaviors can be signs of a dangerous relationship. A lot of young black women think that mental , emotional and sometimes physical abuse is a normal part of a relationship. Almost like relationship kudos ( like oo we went trough so much bs together ). No I’m not tryig to blame Kasndra for this incident , because he had no right to harm her. I’m sure she tired to work through their situation due to having a new baby, but sometimes you just have to leave , superstar athlet or not.

    Clutch I think your readers just wished you dug a little deeper into the multiple issues surrounding this story.

  • Keepitreal

    Ditto on everything you just typed, this mentality in the black community is the real illness. Some of the things I’ve read on line shocks and saddens me at the same time.
    WTF have we gone wrong?

    When my business takes off (God willing, it will) I plan on starting an after school center for black girls where their creative spirit will be nurtured, self esteem will be fostered and they’ll learn they have intrinsic value that does not depend on “keeping” a man, running to the defense of men, and/or getting the attention of men.

  • http://cupofjo-jo.blogspot.com bk chick

    Wow it’s crazy how divided people are on this issue! Everyone has made valid points and they don’t necessarily have to be mutually exclusive..it could be domestic violence AND mental illness AND gun control AND “angry black man” AND disproportionate incident of domestic violence against black women etc. etc. at the same time! All those factors could have contributed to the brutal murder-suicide. Because we don’t know what really caused it, everything is speculation. I think in situations as bad and gory as this, particularly in the category of “murder-suicide” people hop on the mental illness bandwagon because of “belief in a just world.” Basically they need to formulate a rationalization for why something that horrific can happen and it’s easier to say the guy was crazy because it’s not something your everyday person can’t relate to or understand the motive behind.

    I do think people focused on gun control because this is like the umpteenth incidence of gun violence after aurora, trayvon martin, the other kid in Florida, and now this. Now, this certainly can be media bias and they could be underreporting similar incidents involving other weapons, but are not as sensational as ones involving guns… However, if you compare the U.S. to other nations we most def have a gun violence issue. Honestly, I think its symptomatic of having a “free” society which obviously leads to good but contributes to bad as well. People feel “free” to kill people for whatever the reason they see fit and using a gun is one of the easiest and fastest ways to do it….just my thoughts.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    no need to go back and forth. I’m just pointing out the obvious. James didn’t seem to think people were saying anything that they didn’t clearly say. I even quoted it for you. No shame in admitting you made a mistake or didn’t read carefully enough. You stated above what the commenters were saying. James never said that they weren’t saying the things you claimed, and the only way it would be relevant to mention it would be if everyone was saying the same thing. I didn’t say that you were claiming that everyone said the same thing; I mentioned it because that fact makes your response to James kind of pointless. It doesn’t matter that people were saying something different from what James was talking about, because other people were saying the quote that I copied above repeatedly. It is patently a pro-gun piece of rhetoric and James’ comments were completely valid. Some people were saying what James was talking about, while others were saying what you were talking about.

  • Keepitreal

    Dear black people like James…

    Why do you feel the need to interject white people into a conversation about “us”? Carry on.

  • missbehavin

    When folks find a motive to kill someone, they will do it. Guns just happen to be most convenient. I’m a bit of a moderate, as I believe in the right to bear arms…within reason. However, I’ll stand by my belief that guns don’t kill people-people kill people.

  • Kacey

    The following article gives more details about the events that led up to the killing:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/police-report-shows-details-jovan-belcher-murder-suicide-152440857–nfl.html

  • Keepitreal

    Interesting, my “As far as this conversation goes F white people” was edited out and yet all sorts of vile insults directed towards black women on this black women’s site remains. Interesting.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    Gina, yes…women who key cars and throw fits also have mental issues. Please don’t think that I am defending him. I have an MS in Psychology and I work with youth with emotional behavioral disorders.

  • thequietvoice

    It is about the poor Black Man. That Black Woman had a greater chance of being alive if the man she was with had knowledge of and control of his issues. It’s about human beings in general, and the people around them, getting help if and when they need it so they don’t feel that they have to resort to this kind of behavior to escape.

  • thequietvoice

    Expressing that there is a need for more focus on mental health issues and the like, is not a victimization of Black men. It’s an acknowledgment that there is a problem in the community as a whole, that needs to be fixed.

  • The Other Jess

    Again, it doesn’t matter the tool, it is the mindset of the fool (pardon my Jesse Jackson). Anything can be used as a weapon, whether it was originally designed as a weapon or not.

    Nuclear power was originally harnessed as a new source of energy (for electricity, etc). However it became one of the most deadliest weapons in history. And still, the atom bomb killed fewer people than Hitler did, and he just used ovens and gas. What, should all ovens be banned?

    More Black people and Native Americans were killed in the U.S. alone than there were in Nazi Germany, using a variety of weapons including guns, but not exclusively. Several items were used to kill Blacks and Indian, including knives and ropes. Do we ban those too?

    Banning weapons has no effect on people hellbent on killing other people. They will find a way to do it.

    Now, if you think banning guns may help reduce the number of killings of innocent bystanders caught in the flying bullets and crossfire of , say, a drive by shooting or a mass shooting, then yes, banning guns would reduce the number of victims of those types of crimes, and criminals who choose that method of killing would be reduced.

    But it would still not reduce the overall rate of violence against the innocent, or the frequency of domestic abuse victims and murders. If there was no gun, something else would be used (serial killers in the 70s killed just as many people as mass shooters and many did not use guns to capture their victims).

    No matter how you try to frame it, it really doesn’t matter whether the original intent of the item was to be a weapon. The violence comes from the culture and the criminal themself. Period.

  • http://gravatar.com/shamiragoestothailand Shamira

    That logic is flawed. A p*nises sole tool is not to rape. A gun’s sole purpose is violence. I agree with you all that violence and mental health problems are crucial factors in this story, but to act like gun policy in no way factors in to me is being extremely biased, like some people are being today.

  • http://gravatar.com/rastaman1967 rastaman

    I think it is funny that the author is being lambasted because she did not include in her anti-gun violence viewpoint an anti- black male screed. This whole situation is just tragic, 2 people are dead, a young child is orphaned and unknown numbers of folks are hurting and will continue to hurt from this incident. Yet so many commentators can’t seem to the separate this tragedy from their own needs to score opinion points.

    Here is what I know Jovan Belcher is a young man who murdered his girlfriend and the mother of his newborn and then proceeded to kill himself. He also happen to be a black male and a professional football player. The US is a violent society where handguns are easily accessible and frequently used; handguns are made for one specific reason to kill people. Jovan also participated in sport that can best be summarized as organized violence where many of the participants are probably going to have some some level of brain damage by the end of their playing careers. Call me cynical but what shocks me is that these types of incidents do not happen more often. We have created this toxic brew of socially acceptable violence, easy access to killing weapons and turning a blindeye to the effects of our violents society on our citizens and then we are all aghast when tragedies like these occur.

    Don’t get me wrong I watch pro football, enjoy the game but understand that if it went away tomorrow I would be fine. I have held guns and fired them, they are seductive, they give you a sense of power that most people rarely feel today, I however do not own a gun or ascribe to every citizen be given access to handguns and if that went away tomorrow, I would not miss that either.

    Our society has a culture of violence and we can parse it all we want about whether guns are the issue are maleness or whatever things or groups we want to paint with the blame. But at the end of the day people are being maimed and or killed and our society for all purpose turns a blindeye. We act like it is something that is someone else’s problem and if we don’t address it it will slowly go away.

  • Trinity

    I could have turn into a wild west quick draw:.. This is why these types of “mature” dialogues are needed. We cannot refute the fact that “if” some women owned a firearm, then their lives as well as their children’ would have been saved. I do believe if he did not have a gun, he possibly could have strangled her to death or stab her. While having a gun offers no protection from bullets; being enraged also kills . In some instances, a gun can help. Society has chosen to misuse firearm protection. Within this case, we don’t know. but Personally, if I’m going against a raging irate linebacker—to protect myself (and mine), I’m hoping a gun is nearby. I wasn’t there, but it does appear as if she didn’t have the option of self-defense.

  • The Other Jess

    the point is that it doesn’t matter if the tool used was originally designed for killing or not. if someone has the intent to kill somone else, they will – maybe they’ll use a glass flower pot, a butcher’s knife, rope, ducttape, a black garbage bag and a car trunk – just sayin. It doesn’t matter. that person has the mindset to kill, and will.

    the tool doesn’t matter. sorry. the logic is spot on. people in aerica live in a violence-celebrating society and the black community is misogynistic and has a violent mentality. a bad combo if you ask me.

  • thequietvoice

    Is it(the article)about domestic violence? Because it seems to be focused on gun control and society’s addiction to guns. Which are not the only tools for murder.

  • The Other Jess

    a gun is an inanimate metal object, btw. that gun can’t kill a damn sole until a human picks it up, loads it, and fires. we could use guns as wall decorations if we wanted to, it doesn’t have to be used as a weapon.

    people make it a weapon. just as ropes were made i nto killing weapons. the black community has a violence problem period. remove the guns and gangsters would still hate each other and try to kill each other – it may be a little less convenient for them without a gun, but far from impossible. they’d find a new tool to use as a weapon.

  • http://gravatar.com/shamiragoestothailand Shamira

    This is my first time commenting on the Clutch website, and I’m so confused by the volatility of responses. There isn’t a polite way to express your displeasure? Moving on….

    I find it interesting how some people are attacking the author for having an admittedly limited exploration of the topic, but their responses are equally narrow. Gun control is either some or none of the picture, and then turn around and state the fact that the wife was a victim is the whole story? Abusers are more often than not victims too. People love to forget that, because there always has to be a good and bad guy. Domestic violence awareness isn’t just about getting battered women help. It’s about helping individuals who haven’t learned healthy emotional patterns – and that applies to both the abuser AND the abused. So while this is ultimately no one’s fault but Mr Belcher’s, both the murder AND his suicide are tragic. Let’s not forget that.

    (Also, how is gun control not a factor? A gun was used, right? I fail to see how it doesn’t apply…someone please explain to me how living in a society that normalizes gun violence doesn’t isn’t part of this discussion.)

  • thequietvoice

    one doesn’t need to go into a rage when jealous. The jealousy may not be mental illness, but the rage certainly is.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    he would have killed her anyway gun or no gun.

  • thequietvoice

    @Gina you can’t possibly believe that people flying into rages are of sound mind. No one should snap like that. Yes, he could have killed himself out of guilt for killing her but he definitely killed her because he was either in a jealous rage, abusive/controlling, crazy, or did it for kicks. All fall under mental illness, i.e a distress of the mind reflected in behavior.

  • Please Comment

    Mental issues of black males are in need of immediate attention…no denial of this. We cannot bypass the need and/or the discussion of gun control. If not, what will become of all the racist men rants to kill our young black men? And gang members killing each other? Random killings b/c I’m not liked? Seriously, I am asking anyone who can “intelligently” answer these questions without ego or passing judgment. I do realize all of these issues originate from a mental state, but how can we control these “murders” without tackling both topics?

  • The Other Jess

    that could be true, but you know what’s funny? is that if it was the reverse – a black woman killing a black man – i seriously doubt you’d see black men or women talking about the need to “understand the mental health our black women”.

    it wouldn’t be an “oh those poor poor black women” who have it so bad they can’t control their violence. instead it would be that she was an “evil bytch” or a “violent maniac who hates the black man” or just “a hateful angry black woman” – she would receive ZERO sympathy. so why should he??

    he killed his wife, and it was NOT in self defense. this man was a murderous piece of trash. period. not saying he was always that way. i’m sure at one point he was a good person. but he made a decision to do wrong, and the end result is his wife’s death. his deah was of his choosing, his wife did not ask for that.

  • Humanista

    I simply have no faith that the increase in black lives ended by guns is going to make American’s seriously rethink guns, so waiting around for these tragedies to make people change their minds is useless. At best, it will further convince people that they REALLY need guns to “protect” themselves against “those people”.

    I don’t have an issue w/ people owning guns, although I don’t intend to have one in my house, ever. I get them for people who are into hunting and things like that. But regular citizens simply don’t need access to military-grade weapons or anything outside of a handgun or two–certainly not an entire artillery!

    It’s nostalgia. And I think guns make people feel powerful, which is a personal issue,and not one that should be facilitated by government just because. It should not be as easy as it is to get your hands on a gun.

  • The Other Jess

    oh Ravi, i see you’re mad. tsk tsk. did i offend you? ANYWAY. We do know what would’ve happened if all he had were household tools or his hands – he would’ve still killed his wife or beaten and maimed her badly, even if she dodn’t die. All of which are still just as terrible as him shooting her. We’ve heard this story befor with too many other domestic violence situations. Too many of which do not involve a gun. YES, we DO know what would’ve happened if he used his hands or another tool.

  • Whatever

    Excellent Points +1000

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Me mad, not at all. You seem a bit upset, given resorting to insults and not sticking to your argument. Ad hominem attacks are usually the result of an inability to keep you anger at someone that has the audacity to have a differing opinion in check.

    No one can possibly know what would have happened because it didn’t happen. You can guess what might have happened, as you are now doing, but that’s not something anyone can possibly know for sure. There are many different possibilities — he could have beaten her with his hands or some other tool and not killed her, he could have beaten her to death, he could have done any number of other things, but no one can possibly know for sure. Being shot and killed is worse than being beaten.

  • The Other Jess

    Here’s the intelligent answer. Self-defense aside, its not ok for racist white men to kill black men and its not ok for black men to kill black women. We can discuss domestic violence in the black community without minimizing racist violence against black people. They’re both wrong.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    Ms Information and thequietvoice

    A temporary (and in this case, fatal) lapse in judgement does not mean a person has mental issues.

  • LemonNLime

    Those statics are great but it is not an equal comparison. Canada’s population is 34 million and the US has a population of 311 million. Based on shear population, it is not surprising the they have a lower rate of homicides. Plus are these just gun-related homicides or not? I doubt it it. So will we restrict access to knifes and baseball bats and anything else that could be used as a weapon?

  • Afrostyling

    I can understand if this article was about the ridiculously out of control violence that is plaguing Chicago but nah…this is about a black man shooting to death his partner.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    The Other Jess…

    “we could use guns as wall decorations if we wanted to, it doesn’t have to be used as a weapon.”

    Any argument you could have made to prove your point lost all creditably with this sentence. Yes some other tool could have been used, but lets stop speculating and stick with the facts. A gun in its own definition is a weapon used to do bodily harm, he had access to this weapon, he used the weapon to kill. This fact DOES matter.

    I am a Black women that use to live in Chicago, arguably the most violent city in the US. I moved for my own safety and that of my family. Sure I could have bought a gun to protect myself, buy why? I just made the better decision to remove myself from the situation.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina

    Here what it comes to, and I am just stating facts reported about the story.
    They had an argument that got very heated, he got mad or into a rage, shot and killed her, immediately felt remorseful (his mother said after he shot her, he knelt down kissed her forehead) and killed himself.

    So I guess if you want to call this a mental health issue, would you call it temporary insanity?

    If it is not a gun issue, can we say that had he not had access to a gun at that heated moment, she made still be alive?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    that’s only true for the absolute number of homicides, not the murder rates. Murder rates are a percentage of the population that is murdered. The numbers above are based on the number of murders per 100,000 people so the overall population doesn’t matter.

    A quick google search on the relative percentage of the murders committed based on method of killing shows that the majority of the murders committed in the U.S. over the last 30 years have been by guns. So even if you assume it’s only half gun murders, you are still looking at 2.75 murders per 100,000 which is significantly higher than Canada’s total murder rate (all methods of murder included).

    The reality of fewer murders in countries with tighter gun control is inescapable. The whole world seems to understand this outside of the U.S. that is married to this love of gun ownership.

  • EST. 1986

    Is that you, ‘Chillyroad’ or her/his cousin?

  • Wow

    I think it’s funny that you equate bringing up domestic violence and the disproportionate rates that black women suffer this at the hands of black men as simply anti black male screed.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    The thing is, that’s not a fact. That’s speculation about an eventuality that did not come to pass. There is no possible way to determine what would have happened if some women owned a firearm. Owning a firearm does not prevent you from being shot. Yes, those women could have returned fire, but that doesn’t mean they would have evaded gun fire. So I am refuting that any lives would be saved. No one knows either way. All we do know for sure is that guns make it easier to kill. Having a gun nearby doesn’t really help too much if the supposedly raging linebacker is also armed. Body armor might help, or possibly some combat training, but just putting a gun in the hands of an average citizen doesn’t make them safer. Owning a gun doesn’t make you Jack Bauer.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    WHOA…backing away slowly from this tread…YIKES. I DO believe that gun control is an issue in our country (violence and violence towards women (mainly black women) in general)but I fail to see the correlation of gun control and this sad senseless tragedy created by Jovan Belcher and the murder of Kasandra Michelle Perkins. To me, this is an incident like most murder/suicide crimes are what the old folks refer to as “graveyard love”. I believe that even if Mr. Belcher didn’t have access to a gun, he would have found another way to harm/kill her. To me, gun control (and even mental illness) is hindsight to the main issue which is domestic violence, true those two things could be components of domestic violence but they shouldn’t be used as “scapegoat” or as the main theme of this situation. I do believe that ALL factors should be explored and discussed in depth (maybe Clutch would do more than one article on this topic involving Belcher and Perkins.) There are still to many facts surrounded this case that is still out so I will withhold all judgments and theories but my heart breaks for Kasandra’s family and the beautiful little girl that has to grow up in a world without both parents and have to comprehend what her father did to her mother…smh senseless deaths all around.

  • GlowBelle

    How HORRIBLE. Let’s just GLOSS over the fact that there was a serious domestic violence issue in all this and point the blame towards a gun. How convenient… Okay, I do understand where the author stands on this — guns are dangerous dangerous tools, but the people with fingers on the trigger are just as dangerous. Also if you think making guns illegal will solve the problem, you are living in a fantasy world because we’d be in a bigger mess if that happened. I don’t like guns either, I don’t own one, and think that we need to think of regulating the usage of them, but damn it, America has that law where I have a right to bear arms and if I ever felt threatened or felt like my life or the lives of those I love were in danger, I’m glad to have that freedom, that option to act upon it.

    Sure it sounds barbaric, Rambo-esque even, but it’s a law for a reason. It’s just that people abuse those rights and laws and that’s what gets this “anti-gun garble” going. What if he hadn’t used a gun? What if he had used a knife, poisoned her, his bare hands??! This article would be singing a different tune but I bet it would still belittle the domestic violence issue that is glaring right now in our faces. All kinds of men, from all walks of life abuse and kill women, and it sickens me whenever I hear a story like this. So I can’t write this off as a “Black man hates and has no respect for Black woman” issue — this is a constant issue in our society in general from all cultures and races and to settle and give Belcher some sort of “troubled saint” label, just doesn’t sit with me because it’s just not that simple.

    Belcher wasn’t stable. He seemed to have terrible anger issues and had low self-esteem, I can’t argue with that and feel bad for all parties because there is clearly no winners here (and that poor child…). And yes, this is another teachable moment, about how we need to be aware of warning signs whether it is about domestic violence and/or mental illness. Still, just how dare you write this and not let Belcher be responsible for his actions and sugar coat this whole SENSELESS situation by boiling it down to the gun’s fault. I’m sorry but anyone who takes lives BEFORE turning the gun on themselves to me seems like someone who had an intent to kill that particular person, and then panicked and took their own life in order to not face their consequences.

    This is just disappointing, Clutch at how you focus on one thing, and not see the slew of other issues at hand.

    Also I wanted to add something: Both of my grandpas were in the military, and they owned guns. I asked one of my grandpa’s (he fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam) once why he owned a gun, and he told me: “Because of racist White people”. Those guns were used for protection and in my grandpa’s mind and during his time era (Jim Crow South era), that’s what the gun meant for him. So when we think about banishing guns and thinking that will solve the whole problem, remember that guns meant differently for us way back then — we have just have abused those ideals and warped them to create havoc now. It’s time to take action for our own selves, look at the SERIOUS issues we have with domestic violence, and stop blaming the objects we use. Stop copping-out and doing blind blaming, plain and simple.

  • KayKay

    Black men will never have to take responsibility for their actions as long as their are Black women around. For this to be a site geared towards Black women you would think the first article would be about domestic violence but no instead it’s about the same anti-gun advocacy we see after EVERY shooting that gets widespread attention.

    SO dissapointed in Clutch for this article.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    i am pointing out that many black people here are repeating NRA talking points. i think that is a valid observation.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    does anyone think that mass killing can be carried out with out a gun? really?
    has anyone been killed by a stray knife? really?

    guns are dangerous and unnecessary.

    sad to see, black people have been brainwashed by the NRA.

  • EST. 1986

    Yes. Mass killings can be carried out with out a gun.

    Bombings
    Chemical agents
    Flying planes into buildings
    Burning people to death (Hitler)
    Disease pandemic

  • Ask_ME

    @Gina

    You can’t possible be this simple minded.

    There are people who use guns to rob, rape etc. Then there are people who use guns to defend themselves against robbery, rape etc.

    There is a difference between SELF-defense and COMMITTING A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

  • Rena0215

    While it’s true that the article is limited, this is the first comment section where I’ve seen such a lively discussion and so many (I think equally valid) points of view. Every time I think I’ve made up my mind, I read another convincing comment. There’s nothing like reading something that forces you to question what you believe and why. I wish all Clutch articles incited such thought-provoking conversation.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    i was thinking about the lone gunman killings…can one guy with a knife kill up 20/30 people?

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    BTW : when is the last time a baseball player went crazy?
    i think the NFL best do something about the brain damage.

  • http://twitter.com/gennatay Gina! (@gennatay)

    Prove it…

  • Mr.vicious

    What do I as a BM have to do with this…
    Stop using a womans death as a talking point.

  • rosie

    With the exception of contributions by Tami Winfrey Harris and Danielle Belton, I haven’t noticed anything schollary or even well researched on clutch. But I did “+1″ your comment.

  • pat

    @afrostyling

    I also heard the statistic that Black women make up 12%? of the population(female) but account for over 50% of the women killed by their domestic partners.Black women really need to talk and decide some things, BADLY!

  • Mr.vicious

    Bs… White men make up the majority of dv. May I direct you to your nearest trailer park.
    You know the wm bw ignore.

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