scandal

After calculating the results of a completely random, unscientific, social media poll, I have come to the conclusion that 76.21 percent of black men do not like Scandal.

To the 23.79 percent of black men imbued with discernment and the ability to parse creative, political and societal nuance, “Thank you.” And I’m counting down the days with you until next Thursday, which is hereby renamed Scandal.

That’s right: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Scandal, Friday and Saturday.

In all seriousness, I brushed aside the occasional acerbic comments that would come across my Facebook timeline and Twitter feed. The Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson jokes that black female Scandal watchers would nervously bat away, secretly wondering if their black, male friends were laughing with them or at them didn’t even give me pause because I’ve long come to the conclusion that when it comes to inter-racial relationships, there are some black men who hold themselves to a different, hypocritical standard.

While their brethren, and themselves, are free to pursue and fetishize about any Sue, Becky and Kimmy that crosses their path — because black women are so demanding, fat, lazy, unsupportive [insert derogatory label here] — any sister who isn’t beating a drum in Leimert Park with dreads down her back or a TWA (Teeny-weeny afro),  is a race traitor waiting to spread her legs for the massa.

Let them tell it.

I swiftly discard that exaggerated criticism because it is so obviously steeped in feelings of emasculation and instinctive powerlessness that it would take much longer than a sweep of social media to peel back all of the layers and address its core.

But these anti-Scandal black men are a wily bunch. Oh yes, they are. They realized that they couldn’t continue to post pictures of Kim Kardashian on Monday, quote little Wayne talking about “bet that bitch look better red” on Tuesday, break down all the reasons why white women stay “#winning” on Wednesday, then complain about a black woman being in love with a white man on Thursday.

So, what’s the new tactic? Slut-shaming.

Forget that President Fitzgerald Grant III is white, they proclaim all aflutter with their hands clasped to their heaving bosoms. It’s that he’s MARRIED!

scandal men hate

After decades of black women living in a culture of infidelity that is reflected on screen without fail, now all of a sudden –when it is a powerful, black woman involved in an affair that viewers experience from her perspective — we want to talk about marriage.

After years of Blaxploitation films that depicted women as nothing more than breasts and asses, we want to talk about marriage.

After countless music videos shot in strip clubs with rappers collecting  “hoes” like parking tickets, now we want to talk about marriage.

Black women who root for Fitz and Olivia, in all of their complicated, “If Loving You Is Wrong, I Don’t Want To Be Right” fierceness, should put ourselves in the place of the poor wife who is being disrespected in all of this and be ashamed for watching.

Spare me.

As my father used to say, “I might have been born at night, but it wasn’t last night,” so there is no way in hell that I’ll believe that concern for the institution of marriage and the negative portrayals of black women in the media is the reason why Scandal is such a sensitive subject for those black men for whom the show presents an issue.

It’s okay for “bandz to make her dance,” but sleep with a married man? Now, that’s just uncivilized.

^ See how silly that sounds?

Don’t get me wrong, if President Grant were black and Liv were white, black women would not flock to Scandal. I freely admit to that. It wouldn’t matter how empathetically and  compassionately their love was depicted. It. would. not. fly. Not in this life or the next. Those same deep, racial fissures that would turn some women away from that inverted plot are clearly causing resentment in some black men and that’s understandable. I get it.

I get that no one is allowed to objectify black women but them.

We could get into the details of the show and discuss just why exactly Olivia Pope is not being objectified. We could talk about the nucleus of power  — of which Olivia is at the forefront — and how the marriage in question is one of convenience and not truth. We could even discuss monogamy and why, if and should it be the standard of all relationships. But to delve into any of these things would be to fall for the distraction that Olivia’s affair with a married man is the real issue why some of these men are one step away from creating a petition on Change.org to boycott Shonda Rhimes — and we all know that it’s not.

This is about hyper-masculinity, patriarchy and possession. For once, a black woman is depicted on screen who is one self-reliant, skilled, bad-ass business-woman capable of making her own decisions based on choices independent of black male control — and she chose a white man.

More importantly, she chose love with all its drama attached — no racial qualifier needed. And attempting to slut-shame black, female viewers into turning the channel just proves that a lot of egos need to be adjusted for deflation.

For once, it’s not about you, sirs. And that’s okay, you’ll live. We’ve being doing it for years.

  • http://www.ashleydeniserobinson.com Ash

    I feel like I’m the only woman in the world who does not like this show. It’s so ridiculously fast and overdramatic it makes my skin crawl. It might be one of those shows that I watch because I honestly feel really left out because I don’t watch it (And I’m an only child, memories from the past, I wanna go to the party too!!) but it’s not typically my first choice. As an actor, I am happy to see a Black woman in a lead, and a Black woman who is a love interest to not just the Black guy on the show.

    Thanks for this article!

  • Erica

    Who cares what they think? Now let me go read this.

  • Liz

    Here we go………….

  • nona

    I really like Scandal. After hearing so much about it on the Internet, I decided to check it out. I am on season 2 already! I love how fast paced it is and the supporting characters (Harrison and Huck, in particular!) are my favorites. I love Kerry but it’s so fun to make fun of her character’s two moods/facial expressions: fierce and strong or wounded. I could also play a drinking game for how many times Fitz states, “I am the most powerful man in the world/the leader of the free world!” per episode, or Liv calls him, “Mr. President”, but I enjoy going to be sober ;).

    I think the reason why so many black people in general get a little “nervous” over her character is the tendency to view black characters through a racial lens. If I we’re watching and only focused on Olivia being black, and Fitz being white, I’d be rolling my eyes left and right at all the connotations of her being his mistress. But it’s not meant to be viewed like that. Yes, race exists, but this is Shonda Rhimes universe. She specifically wants her characters to be seen as flawed humans, and so that’s how I view it. This is not a show about race, and it’s not meant to be one.

  • Rosey

    LOVE this article.

    “It’s okay for “bandz to make her dance,” but sleep with a married man? Now, that’s just uncivilized.”

    Hilarious and spot on!

  • Tishea

    You wrote this so well I’ll just say kudos and head back to working.

  • politicallyincorrect

    I haven’t heard any black men complain about Scandal, the show is too soap opera-ish for most men to even get into it.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    i cannot make it through an episode…it’s boring

  • http://bloopbleep.com bloop (no way)

    Some people also don’t like Scandal because it is essentially not a good show. It’s overly melodramatic, not well-acted, crappily edited, and probably just a few notches up from soap opera.

    Surely some insecure dudes don’t like this show because of their aversion to interracial dating or whatever, but I can assure you that quite a lot of others don’t like this show because it actually sucks.

    I can’t help feeling like a lot of people (and Black women particularly) watch and defend this show because it’s like the first time ever that there’s been an independent, intelligent Black woman depicted in a leading role on an episodic drama television show. And that’s great. That’s awesome. Good for everybody. But still.

    At the same time, if other people say it sucks, it’s not necessary to internalize/react to such criticism as though folks are bashing you/Black women/Shonda Rhimes personally. The show is just not good. It’s ok.

  • leelah

    Its 7 in the morning over here…but I’m getting my popcorn and mike’s hard lemonade ready for this one.

  • politicallyincorrect

    Where are the quotes in the “story” where BM are supposedly upset? Blogs like to create outrage where there is none

  • class of fitness

    I as a Man, have no bad feeling to this show. but i do have a problem when peoples keep making topic like this one to keep pain going? it not a bad show, but i wouldn’t feel left out it if i don’t watch it. are we going to see the samething with Megan Goode and her new show ‘Deception’?

  • Chillyroad

    Dancing to suggestive music is more morally sound than sleeping with a married man. False equivalence. SMDH.

  • Kani

    Well, I’m a Black woman who does not appreciate the adulterous story line depicted in Scandal, but for me, it wouldn’t make a difference whether it was a Black woman with a White married man, a Black woman with a Black married man, a Black man with a White married woman…well, you get the point. I’m against adulterers, but I love the show because that’s not all there is to it. What gets me, however, is how many Black women still condemn Alicia Keys, yet cheer Olivia Pope for what she’s doing and claim that Olivia and Fitz have some wonderfully romantic relationship. Sure, many assert that the show is merely fiction, so it doesn’t matter, but in my opinion, Alicia’s personal business may as well be fiction since it has nothing to do with our own personal lives. There’s more than one double standard in operation here.

  • http://bloopbleep.com James Elroy

    Scandal is not a good show. That’s why.

  • http://bloopbleep.com James Elroy

    As if Black women are not blasting “Bands Can Make Her Dance” out of car stereos, everywhere across America.

  • Chillyroad

    Many black women are heart broken by black men. They feel rejected, neglected, and taken for granted. Black men should allow black women to enjoy this.

  • http://gravatar.com/blackprincess0524 blackprincess0524

    I agree with the author of this author 100%

  • Chillyroad

    Good point. That music is geared toward a female audience.

  • Sasha

    I have never seen this show but the Black women on my Facebook timeline sing this show’s praises. I may or may not give it a watch seeing as I really like Kerry Washington but if I miss it, I won’t be too upset. I’m not friends with many Black men however the ones I am friends with have never said anything negative about this show. All I can say about this article is that I have a feeling the men trolls will come out of the woodwork for this one. Its Friday and 5 oclock somewhere so I’m prepared to make a drink and some popcorn in anticipation of the comments but that’ll have to wait until I get out of work.

  • Chika

    Ooooh this comment section is gonna be oodles of fun =.=

  • http://chennadoll.tumblr.com pinklipstick227

    I’m sorry but I have yet to hear a black man complain about Scandal. I’d bet that most of the viewers of the show are women. I don’t really hear many men talking about Scandal at all. I’m disappointed in Clutch for creating a non-issue and baiting a gender war in the comment section.

  • C.Law

    I want to go on record by saying that I’m a fan of the show since Episode 1. The affair never bothered me cause I didn’t watch the show looking for a “strong black woman”. I watched the show looking for a great storyline with superb acting played a phenomenal actress of color who EMBODIES all those great qualities WITHOUT an overemphasis on said “strength”

    This article was a little silly in my opinion. Especially given the fact, it was a MAJORITY of women who had issue with this “powerful black woman” having an ongoing affair (which most would call a mistress) with the president. Now that folks have actually given the story a chance to grow.. it’s all “Olivia Pope Everything’

    The bigger question is so men may not like the show. So what? Why should they change how YOU Feel about it. Especially if the show as the author indicates below “is not for the sirs”

    This article seems way too oversimplified and juvenile to be honest.

  • Sasha

    Kirsten was speaking from HER point of view based on social media that she is linked with, that’s very plain to see if you actually read the article for comprehension. Sentences that clarify this:

    -”After calculating the results of a completely random, unscientific, social media poll, I have come to the conclusion that 76.21 percent of black men do not like Scandal.”

    -”In all seriousness, I brushed aside the occasional acerbic comments that would come across my Facebook timeline and Twitter feed. The Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson jokes that black female Scandal watchers would nervously bat away, secretly wondering if their black, male friends were laughing with them or at them didn’t even give me pause because I’ve long come to the conclusion that when it comes to inter-racial relationships, there are some black men who hold themselves to a different, hypocritical standard.”

    I don’t have Twitter, watch Scandal or have many Black men for friends, in real life or Facebook, so if there is any backlash from Black men in regard to Scandal I’m unaware but just because I don’t/ can’t see something does not mean it does not exist. She clearly sees something and is free to write about it.

  • Hepburn3

    I am not a fan of Scandal, I love Kerry Washington, she is a very talented actor and what I have seen of the scenes between Fitz and Olivia they are very moving and touching, but the reason why I cannot watch Scandal or really enjoy it is the writing. The “scandals” and situations that they have to fix just bore me and the heighten dialogue is just too over the top.
    As for the relationship between Oliva the black woman and Fitz the white man, I think it is well done, tasteful and romantic. It is very nice to see a black woman who is celebrated and loved on a drama for a change, but unless they change the writing of the very predictable ‘scandals’ and the really lame idea of Gladiators I will not be watching it.

  • JSF

    I’m a diehard Scandal bro — love the show. I have no issues with the interracial relationship or her strength. I will say however that issues may come from some brothers because of how the black men remain in subordinate positions — and there is nothing wrong with a sista in charge, but what is she doing with/to Senator Edison Davis (Norm Lewis), if she is hopelessly in love with President Grant. As Sista’s would not watch the show if the color situation was reversed, brothers don’t want to be played.
    Just an observation. Still, Kerry Washington is excellent!

  • bob

    In all honesty shows like scandal are not interesting to me as a young black man. Me personally I like tv shows with alot of action. Or fantasy I watch vampire diaries and the attractive black woman on there is dating a white boy. I watched Greek and the attractive black woman on there dated a white man. I did not find a problem with it. Some black women prefer white men thats their preference. It’s not that big of a deal. You cant force people to be with you.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    ” just a few notches up from soap opera”

    it IS soap opera to me…

  • http://www.beyondblackwhite.com Christelyn Russell-Karazin

    Kudos to you for pointing out this foolishness. Black women aren’t “allowed” to be put on ANYBODY’s pedestal according to some folks. Because, HEY! If society all of a sudden sees black women as *gasp* WOMEN, then whose neck will they step on?! Oh the horror…

  • Treece

    “But these anti-Scandal black men are a wily bunch. Oh yes, they are. They realized that they couldn’t continue to post pictures of Kim Kardashian on Monday, quote little Wayne talking about “bet that bitch look better red” on Tuesday, break down all the reasons why white women stay “#winning” on Wednesday, then complain about a black woman being in love with a white man on Thursday.”

    This quote right here….this is what I CAN’T STAND about some of the Black men that complain about Scandal or interracial relationships between BW and WM. Irritates the hell out me. There is a lot of hypocrisy going on with BM and BW in regards to interracial relationships. The show Scandal is just putting it on blast b/c of it’s popularity among ALL women. Some people legitimately may not like the show….that’s fine. I didn’t like Grey’s Anatomy or Private Practice (also Shonda Rhimes creations) and ppl looked at me all funny when I said I didn’t watch. But I’m a fan of Kerry Washington, so I watch Scandal. However, I am tired and exhausted by Black men’s two-faced attitudes whenever a Black woman dates/marries a White man….yet when it’s the other way around your buddies get the head nod or the fist pound/slap on the back when they bring their White girlfriend around.

    And yes, women do it too. Like the article said, there are some women that would be livid (and I mean seething) if Liv were White and Fitz were Black. But I believe the difference lies in the level of hypocrisy. Black women are less likely to be two faced about their beliefs on interracial dating. If they don’t like it, they don’t like it either way. Black women who feel this way don’t date outside of the race, and don’t advocate that their peers do it either. They may not lecture her about it, but they wont congratulate or act like their BFF just won a trophy if she brings around her White boyfriend.

  • Chillyroad

    So black woman are allowed to share white men but not black men? No Wedding No Womb indeed.

  • Chillyroad

    And if you think this show is about putting black women on a pedestal than I can only SMDH. Perhaps because you’ve never been on one you don’t know what its really meant to look like.

  • Ask_ME

    Amen and THANK YOU for this post. I too was outraged by black men’s (and some black women) overnight concern for the institution of marriage. GTFOH!

    Amazing how they can overlook all the man sharing happening on BLACK reality television shows in which black women are fighting and sharing BLACK MEN, who show no signs of ever committing to one woman, but catch feelings about Scandal, a FICTIONAL show! Truly amazing!

    But it’s not just black men…

    I got into a heated debate with a BLACK WOMAN on another blog site. This woman kept bringing up the fact that 72% of black children are born out of wedlock and black women shouldn’t be “idealizing dysfunction relationships.”

    In response I told her the bulk of those 72% of out of wedlock births aren’t coming from BW/WM relationships. Instead they are coming from black couples. So why isn’t she protesting and boycotting Love & Hip Hop, All My Babymamas, and Basketball Wives all of which feature REAL LIFE BABYMAMAS and REAL dysfunctional relationships!

    She never responded back.

    I’m sick and tired of people trying to tell black women what to watch, read, who to love, dislike etc. We are FREE to make our own choices in this world. If BW/WM unions threaten a certain group of black men and black women…get over it!

    I watch television to be entertained. I’m free to love Scandal or any other show for that matter. I don’t give a rat’s arse about black men’s ego, respect, etc. Again, if they feel threatened by this FICTIONAL show and BW/WM unions that’s their problem.

  • Ask_ME

    I refer you to THE ROOT and YOUTUBE.

  • http://dw DW

    As a black man why should i even care? I mean black women have proven who they want to be with and deal with so why should i care. Besides in a white dominated country with white dominated media why should i be shocked that every black woman is with a white man in these shows? it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out and besides what do you women get out of trying to diss black men all the time, all it does is just make black men don’t deal with you. When your in yout 40s and 50s and 60s do you expect these same white men to still lust after you all? And when they don’t u all come back to the black community after giving all your best to other races of men to then expect black men to just accept you back and your run down selvs and act as if nothing never happened. At least black men today are waking up to the b .s and still not choosing to deal with many of you, yes the most disloyal group of women in this country, the african american female. everyone knows this so thumbs me down to hide my comment and have a great day.

  • http://gravatar.com/dorknation Mark

    How do we know she’s actually reporting on what she sees if she can’t provide any quotes or screenshots or other evidence?

    I don’t have any problem with Scandal, I choose not to watch it for reasons unrelated to the lead character’s relationship. I do find it curious, however, that in recent years there are suddenly so many White male/Black female relationships, the predominate interracial relationship depicted on television. I have to ask why that is given network televisions timidity to depict interracial relationships of ANY kind over the years.

  • Ask_ME

    Most critics are very specific in what they don’t like about something. I’ve read several comments about Scandal and I can assure you many don’t say anything like this…

    “It’s overly melodramatic, not well-acted, crappily edited, and probably just a few notches up from soap opera.”

    Instead they read something like this…

    “Why do pretty black actresses always get paired with white men? Never thought I would see the day when black women praise a show for portraying a black woman as a white man’s bed wench.”

  • Ask_ME

    And no one is forcing you to watch it!

  • Nikki Martin

    I’m conflicted about the show honestly. On the one hand I am happy to see an obviously black woman who is strong, independent be depicted as a power broker onscreen. It is a depiction that is well past due. I do however think that the whole desperately in love with a married man takes away from her mojo a little. Anyone arguing that the wife is a wife of convenience is just making excuses for a cheating man. The episode where he was actually being civil to his wife was heartbreaking and sad to watch once he just decided he was finished being nice. Did you see the wife’s face flash hurt, rejection, surprise before she decided to protect herself by showing the blank face of acceptance? I don’t care what she said before, no wife should have to beg her husband to be civil and caring.

    As for Fitz and his love: put up or shut up buddy! Everyone talks about the romance. Well, true romance was that of Edward and Wallis Simpson. He didn’t just call her the love of his life. The man gave up the power, and love of a whole empire because being with her was more important than anything else. But Edward was no one’s idea if a handsome man nor was Wallis Simpson anyone’s idea of a beautiful woman. No one talks about that or thinks it is reasonable for Fitz to give it all up for the “love of his life.” If the Fitz character truly thought of Olivia Pope as the love of his life then wouldn’t he also think that she was worthy of all of his love and attention instead of being someone he has to sneak around to steal a kiss and a sex from occasionally whenever no one is looking?

  • Ask_ME

    “but what is she doing with/to Senator Edison Davis (Norm Lewis), if she is hopelessly in love with President Grant.”

    She told him to take a hike on last night’s episode…and it was cold too!

  • Ask_ME

    Uh…Scandal is fiction sweetie. It would be nice if people like you could remember that.

  • Chillyroad

    Not coming from a woman who hosts a self admitted mistress Kola Boof – a certified wack job-on her website. Please stop referring to me as Sweetie. So inappropriate.

  • Trisha

    I think it depends on age and choice categories for the 76.21 percent of black men who aren’t interested in Scandal. Older black men; maybe 40+ feel s a sense of betrayal when it relates to a black woman dating a white man. Regardless of a black male’s interested in white women. They aren’t interested in seeing it in real life; therefore, they will not watch it on tv. Then the younger men may not have an interest in its storyline. They have more of an interest in CSI shows, sports, action, or news broadcasting.

    For black women, it is nice to see a beautiful, smart sister in a powerful calling the shots. Not degraded or allowing limitations to stop her. That is refreshing for what we see or what we are attempted to be brainwashed with. That is why I’m drawn to this show. While I don’t respect a mistress or extra martial affairs, I do enjoy witnessing the strong desire white men (still) have black women as well. I’m interested in seeing how this part will play out.

    As far as last night’s episode, overall I thought it was predictable as far as Fritz coming out the coma. Being a former “24hours” fan – not comparing two shows- but if a President is not coming back he is killed instantly. However, I will continue to support. We need support black actresses in leading “positive” roles.

    Carry on. This section will have some interesting comments. :)

  • Sasha

    I don’t think you were being clear when you said this but of the interracial relationships I’ve seen on television recently, White men and Black women, are not the predominant ones. Then again I don’t watch that much tv so you can take my words with a grain of salt but I’m not talking just tv shows, I’m talking movies and commercials as well.

    As far as her not providing any screenshots or quotes, I do not require those to believe how she came to her conclusion. Those offer no validity in my opinion because I can write the same article she just wrote, not in reference to Scandal but in regard to White men/ Black women relationships based off of things I’ve personally experienced. As someone who is in the DMV dating a White man, I don’t notice any “stares/ looks” from people, because half the time I don’t have my contacts or glasses on but I very clearly hear the words that people, particularly Black men, say to me (at times in the presence of my boyfriend) about how they feel about MY relationship. Perfectly complete strangers. Who do not know me, my boyfriend or my life but feel free to make their own assumptions about me based solely off of the fact that my boyfriend is White. If I were to write an article about this occurence, I wouldn’t be able to give you dates, times, names, locations but my point wouldn’t be any less valid because I couldn’t. This is how I feel about Kirsten’s article.

  • Chox

    It feels like the motivation for this article may be all in your head. While the majority of my Scandal loving friends are female, I haven’t heard a single complaint from any male regarding the show; not on social media or “real life.” You’re article was quite passionately written though, even if unecessary.

  • Charlz

    PREACH! When my soon to be ex husband, who cheated, fixed his mouth to complain about this relationship and this show I almost fell off the couch!

  • Ask_ME

    Umm…if you don’t like the content on this woman’s site WHY ARE YOU ON HER SITE??? I will start calling you what you appear to be: An obsessed Troll.

  • Chox

    ITA!

  • Ask_ME

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL05Wv2m0Y8

    ^^^But it’s all apart of the author’s imagination right? Make sure you read the comments under the video.

  • The Bishop

    If you using the Root and Youtube as your litmus test to what Black men think of Scandal then you need to really update your research skills. I don’t like the show because it not believable period. It is a poorly written soap opera/ fairy tail written for TV. But I do enjoy Deception.

  • Chillyroad

    I hope the same black women who love Scandal aren’t the ones who tarred and feathered Beyounce for her photo spread in GQ. Calling her all kinds of trashy classless and calling into question Michelle Obama for choosing her as a role model.

  • http://gravatar.com/templet00 tymetravelife

    Good article. Plenty of quotables.

    My fave:
    “They realized that they couldn’t continue to post pictures of Kim Kardashian on Monday, quote little Wayne talking about “bet that bitch look better red” on Tuesday, break down all the reasons why white women stay “#winning” on Wednesday, then complain about a black woman being in love with a white man on Thursday.”

  • The Bishop

    This is one of the best comments on Clutch I’ve ever read.

  • http://www.gallimaufry.ws T.

    There have been several articles written by black men and other complaining about Scandal and the Olivia/Fitz relationship, and plenty of heated discussion about it in previous comment threads here on Clutch and elsewhere in the social media. See:

    http://politic365.com/2012/04/13/michelle-kerry-and-the-war-on-black-women/

    http://www.theroot.com/buzz/olivia-pope-new-sally-hemmings

    http://www.theroot.com/views/scandal-fans-guilty-association?page=0,1&wpisrc=root_lightbox

    http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/72772475.html

    http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/10/does-scandal-exploit-the-image-of-black-women/

    http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/10/scandal-exploits-black-womens-images-huh/

    It’s definitely something that’s been raised/discussed.

  • Al

    Ah yes… Scandal. A show that challenges all of us. I have mixed feelings about this show. Partially for the interracial relationship but not in the context of the way Ms. Savali puts it. My problem with the interracial relationship in this show is the objectification of blacks as a whole in media.

    Take two of our crowning moments; Denzel and Hallie’s oscars. While they were the firsts the circumstances they came under were not idea. Denzel had to play a crooked cop… Did he play the hell out of that role, yes. Do I enjoy the movie Training Day, yes. But “his nigga,” Ethan Hawke (as he referred to him in the movie) came out on top. The black man had to go down. Along those same lines, Hallie had to have her body “objectified” (I don’t necessarily agree with the term but the author uses it here) by a white man in order to win her Academy Award. If anything, Scandal is a harsh reminder of the fact that we live in a white man’s world, especially given the fact that Olivia Pope is the side piece. Let’s not forget the infidelity that is going on here… Fitz is married.

    For the record, I think this show in concept is awesome. We have barely any have shows with black leads, much less black female leads. That is empowering and our community needs that. I also think the idea of interracial relationships are a reality in society that will be depicted more and more. However living in a media paradigm shift, we need to look at the opportunity we have to make a difference. There is a chance to make change in the way we are depicted and how black actors and actresses ascend. I think Ms. Savali’s points here, while valid in some cases, should be redirected to the powers that be. Thoughts?

    PS- My main issue with the show is the writing. Thats what challenges me the most. I think it could be better.

  • Sasha

    I don’t see why they couldn’t do both. I can see why people would find the photo distasteful the same way I could understand how people would think it was awesome. Different strokes for different folks I guess….

  • Chillyroad

    Ask Me

    I enjoy the content of her site. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.

  • cb

    awwww

  • politicallyincorrect

    Youtube is litmus test now? With all that trolling for hits going on? Free your mind girl

  • http://gravatar.com/chloerayne516 GirlSixx

    *JesusWept* Is this nigglet SERIOUS??!! He’s just a Bitter Bobby because his girl left him for a WM. I can’t take this seriously.. *smh* lollllll – He don’t trust dark skin women that wear weaves.. WOW!!!

    This boy craZy… lolllll

  • MuffyCrosswire

    I haven’t heard any BM speak poorly about scandal. The few I see commenting about it on FB are fans of the show.

  • leelah

    Mark,

    I have a theory why there is so many white male/black female relationships. Because for some reason hollywood decided that two black people kissing on each other is completely unappealing to the american audience. Its almost like a law of physics, two black people cannot occupy the same space in time. So…we had the rise of the black male. But he was rarely with a black woman on white shows, blair underwood, taye diggs, wesley snipes, isaiah washington, idiris elba on luther, the policeman on the wire broke up with his wife just so he could sex the white D.A.. And now that black women are getting a little shine, the same is true, all the black women have to be with someone white. I wonder if the white audience is so use to seeing themselves as the focus that they can’t wrap their minds around being the outsider. Does watching two minorities get it on feel like a voyueristic experience or something(oh, thats how those people do it). Does it make them question their own sexual potency?–please note that all minority groups suffer the same fate in mainstream media(hello jennifer lopez couldn’t do a movie with super hot and totally in benjamin pratt,in her hay day she was always with a white male).

  • The Comment

    Thank u @ T.

  • Ask_ME

    @The Bishop

    Those are just TWO examples…neither of which I regarded as scientific or a litmus test. The individual up above said he hasn’t heard ANY black men complain about Scandal. I pointed him to TWO websites where a number of black men do indeed complain about Scandal.

    *Sidenote: Soaps are typically aimed at women…not men. If this “soapy” show doesn’t appeal to you that’s not surprising.

    I do wonder…will you still like Deception once Megan Good’s character begins getting it in with a non-black man…and let’s be honest…from the previews it will happen.

  • Ask_ME

    See T’s comment below!

  • Ask_ME

    @Politically Correct up above.

  • sheree

    I don’t watch the show (don’t watch a lot of tv) however I don’t hear men backlash the shawty lo show either. The ones on fb support that shit. His ass ain’t married.

  • Trisha

    Just to comment on this point:

    “Black women who feel this way don’t date outside of the race, and don’t advocate that their peers do it either. They may not lecture her about it, but they wont congratulate or act like their BFF just won a trophy if she brings around her White boyfriend.”

    While dating white men have never been my preference, I’ve always supported other people’s choices. If she is happy and being treated well, that is all that matters to me. I only have two interracial (BW,WM) couples as my friends. I absolutely love them without any reservation because they are simply good people. For the other black women I know, they have this same “do you, be happy” mentality as well.

  • http://www.gallimaufry.ws T.

    The commenter said they hadn’t seen a single complaint on social media. YouTube is social media, so the comments there are evidence of complaints on social media.

  • http://bloopbleep.com bloop

    Garbage in, garbage out.

  • doski walk

    The show has entertainment values but no moral value… just like society

  • DownSouth Transplant

    Leelah, Ms Savali done thrown the first salvo, all the rest of us may just gonna react, we can’t help it, match set…

  • BlackFuture

    Why do black women want black men to care so much about what y’all do? I personally don’t know any brothas worried or complaining about scandal. Most of us don’t watch the show. This article was just to garner hits, there is no validity in your accusations.

  • Ask_ME

    @bloop

    And the TRUTH will set you free.

  • Marcia

    It’s fiction. A tv show. Why we also like Dexter the serial killer. Stop making it so serious. My dad’s horribly adulterous behavior destroyed our home and permanently fractured many family relationships but I know that Scandal is a tv.show with fake characters.

  • http://www.gallimaufry.ws T.

    I get where you’re coming from. Most of the interesting things in Olivia’s story revolve around her relationship with the President. We don’t really know anything about her outside of that, about her life, her relationships, her family, her upbringing. Her relationship with her ex-fiancee was only introduced to cause conflict with the President. Olivia may be the protagonist, but the President is increasingly the axis the whole show turns on, and Olivia is increasingly defined in relation to him.

    I continue to enjoy the show and to recommend it to others, but I am getting a bit weary of the Fitz/Olivia relationship story.

    I think you might enjoy these articles, if you haven’t already come across them, about how the depiction of the relationship in Scandal and the power imbalance apparent in it.

  • Pingback: A Black Man’s Response to “Such A Big Ego: Why Some Black Men Have A Problem With ‘Scandal’” « Uppity Negro Network™

  • LadyP

    Exactly .

  • lol

    change Olivia’s race to anything else (more so white) and you know brothers would have no problem whatsoever with that situation! has nothing to do with “brothers don’t want to be played”.

    i see through it all!

  • The Bishop

    @Ask_Me, I could care less who people date seeing that my Great Grandfather was Irish and not the black kind. But I find it interesting that when some Black men express they don’t like the show people like yourself immediately run/infer to the interracial component to site that is the reason why. Why can’t we not like the show because it is a poorly written, edited (with all those fake camera shots) and unrealistic when it purports its self as a political drama based in Washington DC.

  • IJS

    Well… I think this article is on point. I too have read articles and FB posts penned by black men complaining about this program and women (like me) who love it. They too complain about the adultery and the “slut shaming” as the writer pointed out. What’s interesting is that one article actually mentioned that Tyler Perry offers better portrayals of black women than Scandal. (I couldn’t make that up if I tried).

    Anywho, this quote “For once, a black woman is depicted on screen who is one self-reliant, skilled, bad-ass business-woman capable of making her own decisions based on choices independent of black male control” is the real reason why black women love the show and SOME black men don’t.

  • JDB

    “bands will make her dance” is not a song about dancing to suggestive music. :-/ It’s a song about getting naked, exposing yourself and manipulating your private parts in unnatural ways for the enjoyment of men who are willing to pay for the experience. So unless there’s a remix I haven’t heard, there is definitely a viable comparison there. It’s all about objectification – which we should all be S our DH’s at.

  • Ask_ME

    @Bishop

    You have a right to like/dislike what you want. Do remember you replied to MY comment addressed to politicallyincorrect in which he said he hasn’t heard ANY black men complain about Scandal. YOU took issue with ME pointing HIM in the direction of two sites where black men are vocal about their issue with this show.

    I personally could care less whether you like or dislike Scandal. That is your business.

    And yes, I strongly suspect the same “issue” SOME black men have with Scandal will also come to light with Deception…despite it being more action driven. Some black men singing praises of that show will completely change their tune once Megan Good begins kissing, touching and getting it in with non-black men. If it doesn’t apply to YOU…let it fly.

  • RuhOh

    The trolls are a coming. The trolls are a coming.

  • Treece

    Not trying to say that a BW who doesn’t date interracially wounld not be supportive if a friends choice to do so. Just trying to saytjat she probably would treat her like she just won some special prize or something. Usually BW who do not AGREE with interracial dating when BM and WW are concerned won’t be so quick to give accolades to a Black friend who has a White man friend. That was my point.

  • D

    This article is just ridiculous. As a black man, I can tell you any chance I can get to see fine ass Kerry Washington a) unclothed and b) whoring it up with whomever I’m extremely happy. But even those opportunities can’t make me watch this show regularly (I even forgot it was on last night if it indeed was on. I don’t know). The show just blows. You can take a poll and outside of the previously mentioned sex scenes and long lingering shots of Kerry’s juicy lips, 75% of men will hate the show. The rapid-fire dialogue is ridiculous…the smarmy, smart-alecky comments are corny, the characters are prone to giving drawn-out speeches on minutia like Grey’s Anatomy, Private Practice, Dawson’s Creek and a bunch of other horrible shows. In short, there is no widespread black male backlash against Scandal because of the interracial love plot. There is probably just a male backlash. There is no slut shaming. If anything, we want more sluttiness….and it wouldn’t hurt if the president secretly has another big booty chocolate mistress or two in the wings. That would be a good plot twist. lol….but I kid….

    Let me tell y’all what is really going on with this author and her article. She, and many others, see it as a triumph whenever a black woman dates/screws outside her race. (Bonus points if it’s on TV). It’s some kind of weird validation that “Yes, we’re desirable, too, dammit!! White men truly do want us. We’ve arrived!!!” That it’s with the president, the numero uno white man on the planet, just sends their hearts aflutter….lol…regardless of it being fiction. The fact that this alone produces fist-pumping across the country is a sad commentary. But I’ll give it to the writers/creators…they know their audience.

    Some take great glee in talking with black men about it, looking for the slightest discomfort so they can go “Ah ha! Double standard blah blah blah….” while telling us to “get used to it. Black women can do it to blah blah blah.”

    OK, here you go…..for the rest of eternity, there will always be a large number of black men who do not like watching a black woman with a white man. SO THE F WHAT?!? That proves nothing except that lots of black men are uncomfortable with a black woman dating/screwing a white man. Just as there will be a large contingent of black women who don’t like black men with white women. No double standards uncovered. No guess work. No detective work or 1,000-word analyses are needed. Take it as a given.

  • mikey kun

    I love scandal, every show has fans and people who don’t like it (that’s ok.)

  • gmarie

    lol I find that online black men have a problem with ANYTHING black women find entertaining. (offline they’re watching with their girlfriends though. go figure). I don’t even watch Scandal and I took offense to some idiot ranting about how black women who watch the show are “stupid”, or “lack critical thinking skills”.. it was something to that effect. I see the same complaints about pretty much any show that is popular amongst black women from RHOA to The Game, etc etc. Any excuse to try to belittle women..it’s pretty sad. Considering those sharing these views not being able to separate entertainment from reality displaying a TRUE lack of critical thinking.

  • The Bishop

    @Ask_Me you tried to apply to me when you asked the question: “I do wonder…will you still like Deception once Megan Good’s character begins getting it in with a non-black man…and let’s be honest…from the previews it will happen.” and I responded accordingly. Just like you have the right to comment about the merits of the article, I have a right to have a counter argument to the premise of the above authors unscientific assertions. I feel that in this instance your painting Black men with more of broad brush and not giving us credit for being able to critically critique a show in my opinion is just above Soap Opera status. I hope my retort does not make think that I’m disrespecting you. But it is intellectually lazy to group all black men in the …”I hate fictional interracial affair crowd”…. you can carry on with your crusade now.

  • http://gravatar.com/bigdaddy1906 Chuck

    I honestly could care less about the show and the general premise of the article. I disagree with the rather dismissive attitude of the author when she states “Don’t get me wrong, if President Grant were black and Liv were white, black women would not flock to Scandal. I freely admit to that.” If the author was being totally honest she’d state that black women would be pissed the hell off and letting the world know it. Just imagine if Olivia was played by Scarlett Johansson and the President was played by Denis Haysbert. There would be war councils all over America just like in Jungle Fever.

  • Chillyroad

    What a single woman does with her body for money and what she does with a married man are on two different scales. With the former should could potentialyl hurt herself with the latte she and the man can ruin whole families and especially children. See the difference?

  • http://gravatar.com/dginki Kim

    Please. many of us already know many of you could care less about Black women. We get that.

  • http://gravatar.com/dginki Kim

    Never heard of the song.

  • http://www.gallimaufry.ws T.
  • Batman

    Here come the cape crusaders, now waits for Val and Ravi the illusionist, it’s all in your head black women to fly through.

  • http://bloopbleep.com James Elroy

    Hang out with Black folks aged 16-25 pretty much anywhere near any city, nationwide, for the past few months. (Re: Bands will make her dance)

  • http://gravatar.com/dginki Kim

    Maybe there are some Irish sites that you could go visit. I’m so sick and tired af some of you. Why are you here. Why do you have the need to intereject yourself into the lives of Black women. Some of you are so sick.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    Bingo! Personally, I find it funny of the trolls who attacked the show but people defending the show at all cause. Funny, despite that it’s FICTION but the way people are rationalizing and going harder than a hand basket to defend this show and some of the incidents on the show to make it seem right or politically correct is not only disturbing but scary…like seriously we are “protesting too much”. Are we that starved for attention that we need to use this show as a launching point of “SEE! They do find us attractive; we can be vulnerable or that/that…” I swear some people need TO GET THEIR LIFE. Personally, I don’t watch Scandal because it is predictable and I can usually guess what happens so it isn’t exciting or refreshing for me. Secondly, I think the character of Fritz is an A$$hole to ALL the women in his life so why people are acting like he is this great prize is confusing to me, regardless of his race. I have NO problem with Scandal or Olivia Pope I just don’t watch it similar to the black men I know who don’t complain because they simply don’t watch it or don’t care to watch that show. I think the author is confusing trolls with the sane individual.

  • JDB

    Chillyroad,
    Take a few moments and google the lyrics to that song. You tell me how having young girls and boys (potentially mothers and fathers) be repeatedly subjected to mass media messages regarding the objectification and blatant disrespect of woman by men who deem you only worthy of giving dome and popping your p***y for money, and the blind cultural acceptance of those messages DOES NOT affect familes — ESPECIALLY children. How are we going impress upon a man-child (or girl, for that matter) the importance honoring their committments, like marriage vows, if all they have to do is turn on the radio to be constantly reminded READ: RELENTLESSLY BOMBARDED with reminders that most of their favorite, successful pop cultural figures have no respect for women.
    No, I don’t see the difference.

  • The Bishop

    @Kim I didn’t know this (Clutch) was your life. But if your searching for the reason of why I comment on this site is because I like to know what Black women are thinking and I like to have friendly discussions about issues that affect them and subsequently us as Black men. I love the sister’s and we should be able to have a friendly discourse without all the disdain.

  • LemonNLime

    OMG WHO CARES?!

    Are these random dudes paying your cable bill or buying your TV or paying for the electricity to keep it on?

    Probably not, so who gives a crap about what they think? Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. It’s stupid giving power and attention to those who don’t deserve it, especially random nobodies on the internet.

    If you want to watch Scandal, then just watch it. Stop feeling like you need to justify it to yourself or anyone else. I swear the amount of energy some black women expel worrying about or justifying or analyzing everything to random black men is exhausting.

  • Pseudonym

    I’m actually bored with the affair storyline. It’s goimg nowhere- kinda like most affairs. They come together for 2 seconds for “tension” then piss each other off until they get another 2 seconds for “tension.” Got it. Let’s get something else going- like Olivia dating the opposing candidate next election.

    I’m more interested in this voter fraud and all the blackmail and backstabbing. The funk is gonna hit the fan AND I CAN’T WAIT!!!!

  • http://www.gallimaufry.ws T.

    Quite so. And if black men don’t like seeing a desirable black woman with a white man, I am not going to fault them for feeling that way. But all this moralising about adultery and academising about objectification and what have you just seems like a smokescreen. I’d prefer if the black male critics came out and said (to paraphrase a black male Clutch commenter) that they don’t like seeing such a fine black woman with some white dude. Lay it out straight. I could respect that more.

  • Ask_ME

    @The Bishop

    You wrote: “I hope my retort does not make think that I’m disrespecting you. But it is intellectually lazy to group all black men in the …”I hate fictional interracial affair crowd”…. you can carry on with your crusade now.”

    No disrespect taken because I feel it’s intellectually lazy to not READ and COMPREHEND what’s written. Here is a re-post of my comment up above:

    Me: “And yes, I strongly suspect the same “issue” SOME black men have with Scandal will also come to light with Deception…despite it being more action driven. Some black men singing praises of that show will completely change their tune once Megan Good begins kissing, touching and getting it in with non-black men. If it doesn’t apply to YOU…let it fly.

    Notice, I didn’t “group ALL black men in the…’I hate fictional interracial affair crowd.’

    Nor did I write ALL black men have an issue with Scandal.

    Have a nice day!

  • Ask_ME

    LOL. This is funny because it’s true.

  • Analyst

    So you’re basically saying that black men can’t be because Scandal is poorly written, derivative, cumbersome and is focused too much on the Olivia/Fitz/Mellie Love Triangle? It has to be because black men do not like interracial relationships? Obviously, everyone isn’t going to like the show and they will have your reasons; however, to use social networking and some black men who do not like the interracial relationship as your sole sample is ridiculous. Can the same be said of the overwhelming amount of black women that hate Kim K simply because Kim K is with Kanye? You addressed her, but failed to address that? Such a myopic, op-ed piece that was used to incite and not to educate. Then again, I’ve come to expect ridiculous writing from many Clutch writers. Maybe that’s why you like Scandal so much because Shonda is as subpar a writer as much of Clutch Magazine’s staff.

  • http://www.gallimaufry.ws T.

    Your comment was very blunt, but I think there’s some real truth in what you’re saying.

  • Analyst

    *correction to my post So you’re basically saying that black men can’t like Scandal because Scandal is poorly written, derivative, cumbersome and is focused too much on the Olivia/Fitz/Mellie Love Triangle?

  • Lace2

    ummmm…..as a woman I find this article a bit stupid, next. This conversation is soooo dated. If men want to bury their faces inbetwwen the infected cheeks of this or that woman (whatever her national origin) and if women want to fall in love with this or that man, who’s business is it? It’s not 1955 or even 2012 anymore and it’s time to get real. I’m not sure what kind of business CLUTCH aspires to be. But this is poorly written and tacky imo.

  • Ask_ME

    This comment was directed at “Batman’s” comment about Val and Ravi. Too funny.

    *I wish the reply button on this site worked more often.

  • AM

    I’ve read this article, but I don’t understand where it is going. Can somebody please give me a summation of it…….Thanks in advance.

  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com Val

    This is one of the most half-baked, poorly written posts I have ever seen on Clutch. Rather than using Scandal as a starting point to dissect the complicated feelings that many of us have regarding portrayals of us in the media, you took the low road and turned what could have been an enlightening conversation about how Black men and women see each other in the media and why, into just another low-brow Black men are haters, think they own us, love Becky, blah, blah, blah conversation.

  • BlackFuture

    Lady, you’re trying to turn this into something that is not. You know damn well most BM (myself included) do care about Black women. What I meant was some Black women seem to want black men to have an unhealthy psychotic obsession over them.

  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com Val

    You don’t get it, AM, because it’s nonsense. She’s just trying to appeal to the lowest, most base, insecurities that many of us have as Black women. Not everyone who writes for Clutch really gives a damn about Black women, apparently.

  • Ask_ME

    @D

    In short, he chose a black woman that a certain group of black men complain about not being able to pull.

    You know the pretty, intelligent, slim, top-notch, non-belligerent, childless type who often end up with non-black men.

    Funny how art imitates life in this situation (referring to Kerry Washington’s preference).

    Hehehehehehehehehe. I’m sure fans of this show will continue to enjoy it!

    People living in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

  • http://gravatar.com/dginki dginki

    You are one sorry piece. The only people who have ever had black men’s backs were black women. How dare you come to this site with your fiction. Maybe you can write and produce your own version of Scandal. You are down right delusional. What you want black women to do is be there for you NO MATTER WHAT. You don’t have to do right or be right. Just be there. Then and then will black women not be disloyal to you. Go straight to H@ll. You have no right to expect that from ANYONE.

  • AM

    LOL Val! *waving*!!

    Actually, I’m a fan if not a certified stan for Kirsten’s work. She is one of the REALLY good writers on here as far as I’m concerned. But this article right here…..

  • D

    Agreed….the president’s tastes run parallel to the exotic-worshipping black men. The type of black or half-black women whom other black women despise because she doesn’t look like or represent 99% of them.

    So he pretty much picked the “whitest” black woman he could find.

    Please do continue to enjoy it.

    Hehehehehehehehe

  • Chillyroad

    “You know the pretty, intelligent, slim, top-notch, non-belligerent, childless type who often end up with non-black men.”

    So I guess the reason there are so few black women with non black men is because there are so few black women who meet this stringent criteria. SMDH. Way to throw most black women under the bus. See this is why I LOVE when women like you talk. Give you enough rope to hang yourself.
    Is that how women like you feel? Because a white man choose you must be the best of black women? SMDH.

    This right here should let other black women know that the reason why they are stuck with black men is because they just aren’t good enough. SMDH.

  • http://defendingmoney.wordpress.com Marketing Gimmicks

    Um. Hello. The goal of Scandal as with all television is to have the show’s name in your mouth and to have your tongues wagging. Whether you watch or not; you’ve heard about it and that’s the intention and goal. When shows aren’t talked about they get canceled.

    Deception in 5…4…3..

  • Ask_ME

    @ChillyRoad

    Please kick rocks troll pop. Everyone that frequents this site knows you have a vendetta against black women in general.

    Your FALSE outrage at my tongue-and-cheek retort to another troll (he didn’t even try to hide his trolling) on this site (and please don’t act brand new about the implications of his comment) doesn’t mean a damn thing to me.

    Go sit your arse down somewhere.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    You got to give KIRSTEN WEST SAVALI props, she is an instigator of the first order, she put the IR bait out there wrapped up under the guise of a TV show that black men would not be watching even if there was not an IR element and now she sitting back laughing as the dogs tear each other apart. She didnt even try to hide the bait like she does in her other posts. When do men in general flock to see chick shows? When do black men rush to see anything that doesnt evolve them? I know I will not, if I am not prominently represented what ever it is can kick rocks. Perhaps this a trick to get men to watch it?This is a woman who knows her audience well. She has my utmost respect.

  • Kacey

    @ Kim
    OK, I thought I was the only one. So I [made the mistake] of going over to iTunes to preview it (note: its called “Bands a Make Her Dance” not “can”).

    It’s Atrocious! Spare yourself.

  • Cocochanel31

    RUN TEL DAT!!!!!

    Very poignant and eloquently written. Right on sis!

  • Treece

    Wow, my comment is full of typos. sorry I’m typing on a cell phone….meant to sat “probably would Not treat her like she just won…”

  • Kacey

    I feel like I’m betraying the sisterhood by saying this but, I agree – the show is terrible, in my opinion. I tried so hard to get into it, committing myself to a weekend marathon viewing of Season 1 on Netflix and I didn’t make it past the first few episodes.

  • ChillyRoad

    @SMH

    She has been running interference all over the field. She needs a Heisman trophy. 2013 Rookie of the Year.

  • leelah

    strippers usually dance for single and married men

  • Kweli Wright

    Yes.

  • GlowBelle

    Your insecurity is showing.

    I mean, WHO GIVES A CRAP what Black men think about ‘Scandal’? Do some Black women really need that much affirmation/permission from Black men? I know I sure don’t. Not everybody is going to like something that you think the world of. That’s just life. Also stop assuming the reasons why someone doesn’t like something that you deem precious. Sometimes it’s not that deep. Also you bet your snuff that if the President Grant had a white wife while being Black, Black people would be watching. Who are you to predict what Black people do? What happened to the “Black people aren’t a monolith!!” we seem to be screaming so loud about? I don’t watch shows and movies just because “ooh look there is one…two…three Black people!”, I watch shows if their plot lines/characters interest me and maybe specific actors that I like that are in them. These basic trivial Black men you’re speaking of aren’t killing my joy of escapism when I’m watching ‘Scandal’, and they shouldn’t kill yours either, because who exactly are they? They aren’t paying my bills or taking me out for fancy dinners, so who gives a crap what they have to say about things I like/don’t like?

    I thought that’s what was the great thing about being GROWN…you don’t have to explain yourself to anybody and you can think and do the way you want to and not worry about what everyone else thinks of you. I’m sorry, but I left that childish crap back at the high school lunch table.

  • Trisha

    Hmmm..that’s interesting I received thump-downs on my comment. I understand exactly what you are saying. I just wanted to point out that some black women really don’t care. As long as our friends are happy, we will congratulate them just the same.

  • dirtychai

    Geez, thank you. I was annoyed my this article, because it’s just a TV show that women and also many men that I know love to watch. Olivia Pope isn’t a real person. She’s not my super-sistah-homegirlfriend. She’s a television character, as with Fitzgerald Grant.
    Black women are not so lacking in role models that we have idealize a make-believe woman and defend her right to sleep with the make-believe president.

  • http://gravatar.com/dorknation Mark

    @leelah I’d have to disagree with you there. I’m an old dude and have seen all the BM/WF relationships you’ve mentioned, but note the gap in years, going back to LA Law when I was still a law student about 100 yrs ago up until Luther (a BBC show by the way, who have been less shy about showing IR relationships between couples of any race over the last 20 yrs or so). I’m seeing the uptick of WM/BF relationships very recently. It’s almost as if Black women are a fad to them. I do agree that within many network programs they’ve failed to show BM/BF relationships, but that exposes what is to me a greater problem, the lack of dramas that show Black families as an integral part of the show.

  • MommieDearest

    Your last paragraph pretty much summed it up. Folks will feel how they feel and that’s fine. No need to try to “convert” anyone.

  • K. Michel

    “After calculating the results of a completely random, unscientific, social media poll, I have come to the conclusion that 76.21 percent of black men do not like Scandal.”

    I don’t see why this is a problem. It’s not exactly a show that was made for them in mind.

    Can Kirsten West Savali even come up with three reasons why Black men should like “Scandal”, or give it a chance? I’d be impressed if she could. Otherwise, I can’t take her argument seriously because it’s not a show most Black men would be watching anyway …regardless of the interracial romance.

  • OH

    Speaking from experience, dear? By your own admission YOU were rejected over and over and over again by black men for being fat despite being “blessed” with light skin. Your light skin pass was revoked, stomped on and thrown out and instead of moving on, you take your hate out on black women.

    It obviously pains you to see black women CHOOSING non black men when you couldn’t even land one and had to settle for an Asian man to take you in. What a pity. :-(

  • http://gravatar.com/beejcee beejcee

    Mellie (the President’s wife had an affair, according to the now Vice-President at that time an opponent to Fitz. Wonder if it was with a black man!

  • L.W.

    That’s it exactly. Olivia is a cipher. She is not given any real character. Good stories grow out of the characters, in not-so-good stories, the characters are puppets moved by the plot.

    Olivia is a puppet–dressed in beautiful designer clothes, it’s true and in a far more powerful position than black women are usually granted in tv or movies (aside from token peripheral figures like crime shows with black women as judges). But still, a puppet rather than an interesting character whose quirks and passions drive the story.

  • Daps

    BlackFuture: you’re trying to turn this into something that is not. You know damn well most BM (myself included) do care about Black women.

    Exactly just look at the black community as a whole and the caring is apparent.

  • Z

    “When do black men rush to see anything that doesnt evolve them?” <<< I wish more black women would take this stance and stop supporting people and things that blatantly do not support or involve them.

  • Rupaul

    ChillyRoad, you have been read, hunty.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    That’s “involve them”,

  • Ask_ME

    “YOU were rejected over and over and over again by black men for being fat despite being “blessed” with light skin.”

    OMFG! I called this witch on all the above too…yet she tries to portray herself as some “hot commodity” in the black community. No, troll, YOU admitted you weren’t desired by black men.

  • MISS_EMCEE

    I blame clutch magazine for my weight gain. I’ve been eating chips, bluebell ice cream, and drinking juice while reading these comments lol. Now I have 2 chinz.

  • Georgette

    I don’t like the show either. I watched the 1st two episodes and they just moved too fast for me. I watched again last night and I still don’t like. Also Olivia doesn’t have any taste in men, because the president is nowhere near handsome.

  • Shelly

    I am a black woman and I don’t watch this show because I am tired of black women being portrayed as sluts (and a slut is what I perceive a mistress to be). Also, I will admit, the fact that he is white bugs me, too. From what i’ve seen in the previews of Meagan Good’s new show, it looks like she will be involved with a white man, too. Why? It seems like if a black show is allowed on tv these days, there has to be at least a few stereotypes thrown in there (I guess to make the white audience happy). I wish I could, but I cannot support this show simply because the female lead is a “sucessful” black women.

  • L.W.

    For me Scandal is kind of meh–worth watching for the clothes once in a while but overall there’s not much memorable about the show as far as acting, plots, or dialogue. I think the dearth of black female leading characters on television has a lot to do with Scandal’s popularity. It’s like if you’re starving, even junk food tastes great but if you’re used to dining at the best restaurants, you have higher standards.

    I always think while watching most TV and movies–why couldn’t the lead in that be black? I’m talking across all genres here–black leading characters in sci-fi/fantasy shows, in action movies, in cop/detective shows, in historical dramas, in cutesy TV sit-coms and rom-com movies, in any you-name-it type of entertainment. In that sense, Scandal is perhaps a good start of what I hope will be a trend of less overall whiteness in entertainment media. It would be great if we could reach a place where white isn’t the default setting when casting a show or a movie.

  • Barbara

    Your light skin pass was revoked, stomped on and thrown out
    ^^
    I shouldn’t but LMAO so hard right now.

  • KayKay

    Good job, you definitely won that argument by correcting her spelling.

    *rolls eyes*

  • Tara

    I could care less about what black men think. I think that the sex scene is hot between Fitz and Olivia is HOT. I would like to see black men and black women dating interracially in larger numbers. I like Scandal and I do sometimes feel funny that I like seeing them get it on considering the fact that he is married but you only live once right? Men do it all the time….

  • Tara

    That girl is brown skinned with black features and curly hair. I met her in person. She is unmistakeably a sister. Not on the borderline. So that wont work. But I agree with the tiny butt, skinny girl comments…lol

  • maxineshawattyatlaw

    You: “Find a new script please”

    Me: Or you could just find a new online magazine to grace with your presence.

  • K. Michel

    He was correcting his own spelling…

  • MissCleo

    Go to responses when black women address certain issues

    1. You’re just jealous
    2. You’re just insecure
    3. What problem? Not the people I know therefore it doesn’t exist.
    4. Stop talking about/Stop bringing it up!!!!!!!!!!! (I imagine in a “Leave Britney Alone’ cry) and it will go away

    It would be funny if it were not so predictable

  • Lol

    This troll is addicted to Clutch which is why he, she, it keeps coming back after being banned several times. How pathetic must one be to keep returning to where they are not wanted.

  • http://opinionated.wordpress.com Bianca

    It’s a television show people. I don’t think that there are enough black men in the US for there to ever be a 1 to 1 for everyone anyway, so we might as well get used to a global economy and global integration. Why limit yourself to one race or creed? Cut us open and we all bleed red so it really doesn’t make a difference.

    Olivia Pope is flawed yes, but I watch because it is GREAT television! Much better than RHOA or any other ghetto fabulous reality TV show that shows a one sided view of black american women- we all don’t all wear weaves with beat faces and stiletto pumps with our boobs high and lifted up. Liv is conservative, intelligent, and YES Flawed, but she pushes past her flaws to do it in a big way everyday.

    I don’t condone extra marital affairs, but this is a great TV show and we should support Shonda Rhimes’ attempt to keep real television programming alive while bringing a diverse cast to a diverse audience. Otherwise we’ll be inundated with more “reality TV” foolishness that makes us look like a bunch of uneducated monkeys!

    #Imjustsaying

  • EST. 1986

    Women aren’t raised to only think about themselves the way men are.

  • EST. 1986

    “This whole excavation of my personal life is just pathetic. I personally dont give a crap who any of you women are, personally. Why you guys care so much about me is a mystery.” – Chillyroad

    No one cares about you here. People are just tired of the game you play and act oblivious to.

  • leelah

    kerry washington doesn’t look like us? with her brown skin and kinky hair? ok….if u say so

  • leelah

    that comment was left by a man, but nice try.

  • eboni

    Heeeeeeeeeck yes!!

  • leelah

    mark. there’s two shows with black female leads. I don’t know if that low level of representation could be called a fad. but we are seeing more black women which follows the well established trend of black men in the spotlight: they will be paired with a white partner. I would like you to explain why the length of time is significant when talking about black men in hollywood. I believe hollywood embraced the sex appeal of black men first because of sports, they couldn’t deny it with black men dominating all three major sports. so we had the rise of the leading black male actor. now, because of probably tyler perry, oprah, and shonda rhimes they are exploring the black leading lady. but all black actors are dealing with the same limitations:1. they will be the only black body surrounded by a white cast so white people will go to the movie. 2. the romantic lead, if its a general audience movie and not a black film, will most likely be white.

  • Robert

    To be wanted by a white man is the ultimate compliment?

  • ArabellaMichaela

    @GlowBelle
    I am inclined to agree with GlowBelle’s general sentiments. I am a loyal soldier and “all in” when it comes down to basic, racial affinity. However, although I am reluctant to say Black men are part of the problem, they definitely are showing themselves not to be part of the solution. The perception/reality that they worship the Kimmys and Beckys and “Bianca Marias” is part of what creates this unfounded stereotype that AA women must, intrinsically, be undesirable. The obvious reason , that Black men have deep rooted self hatred issues (Psychology 101) never occurs to other groups. It’s a bad thing because it gives other groups just one more fake thing to use against AA women. No matter how bright, attractive, etc., an AA woman may be individually, it benefits other groups to reduce us all to the lowest common denominator, thereby marginalizing us or eliminating us entirely. Black men, and their choices, directly support this. They do, sorry to say it.
    All this is to say, I agree with GlowBelle. Who cares what Black men think? I only wish their “thoughts and actions” didn’t affect our daily lives as we go about trying to live and have a career in america with some dignity. Personally, I know a few Olivia Pope types.

  • Liz

    So, you would rather the character be dating a black man? Which would then make Scandal a black show? Which would then give it a strictly black audience? Which would then have it relegated to syndication on BET? Which would keep blacks out of network prime time? You folks have no clue how to be strategic. But Shonda does. She realises that if you have all blacks being the main characters, people are going to see it as a black show. But if she has a mix, then the black people in it are not seen as blacks but as merely people. And that’s why shondland is raceless. Just like white people are seen a people, not white people. they are the mainstream while every other race is othered. I wish American blacks would realise the importance of this. Obama and Oprah get it, which i why they are where they are. They don’t go around spouting black power. And in playing the game smartly, they achieved power as a black person in a racist society. Get it? I really wish black Americans would.

  • ArabellaMichaela

    @T
    No. Black men do not like seeing a desirable black woman with a non-black man. Frankly, I think we need to start a movement and do exactly that, en masse–Black women dating anything other than black men. Heck, fight fire with fire. I guarantee you the “brothas” couldn’t deal with it with the “insouciance” we, AA women, have to exhibit every day.

  • Empress Ashaki

    I think you are just perpetuating stereotypes and over generalizing. I watch the show because of the scenarios Olivia Pope is able to get people out of. I don’t much care for the infidelity piece…but it’s a tv show. I think most men don’t like it because it portrays a woman with a great deal of power. This is coming from a black woman with locks down her back who has drummed in Leimert Park AND dated white men. I would love to see an article that serves to unite black men and women instead of perpetually dividing them.

  • tony smith

    Your article stinks for the following reason: “After calculating the results of a completely random, unscientific, social media poll……”

    You are writing a column bashing black men based on madness on your Facebook wall? Get a life!

  • Pastor E

    This is too funny…I’ve never seen the show because I’m just not that into TV but as an African American man I’m not tripping off of inter-ethnic relationships or the morality of extra-marital affairs. The author of the article seems to be angry with 76.1% of African American men and this show is her revenge. The fantasy of a TV show can never match reality but if this works for her, then get the anger out. But don’t categorize with an unscientific survey the significance of the men she’s listened to about the show. It ain’t reality … it’s TV show!

    It ain’t that deep!

  • http://www.facebook.com/magalee.cirpili Magalee Çırpılı

    You’re commenting on an article that cites an actual social quandary about the integrity of the research?
    Get a life!

  • isola

    I enjoy watching Scandal every week. It is just plain old entertainment. I watch it and just move on.

  • I what a white man, but he don’t want me

    Every race of man wants black women?! WTF! Before you thumbs down, answer this question. Why then are the interracial marriages of black women the lowest? Keep in mind that it is the men who usually pursue the women. How many of yall have been out and had tones of white, asian, indian men holla at you and ask for a phone number? VERY FEW. Black women say “we are going to get white men” (Note: White men are not coming for you, you are going to them). Its O.K if you want a white dude, But don’t make it what it’s not.
    P.S : Please answer the question, don’t get mad and just thumbs down

  • Can’t look in the mirror

    LoL! Remember the Clutch article titled: ” Should Black Women Boycott ‘Red Tails?’” How come black women did not see a problem with this? Black women wanted to boycott the movie. They seem not to have the ability to look at their own actions. If you don’t have a problem with the show Scandal, you should not have a problem with the movie Red Tail

  • http://www.facebook.com/richard.turner1 Richard Anthony Turner

    Maybe black men don’t watch it for the same reason they don’t watch other soap operas because men that aren’t into soap operas. If sistas want to be with white men then they can be with them. Rap is misogynistic but so is America and the culture that consume it (both male and female). Olivia Pope’s exist all over the place in Washington DC, LA, New York, London, Paris… Hell Lenny Kravitz and Traci Ellis-Ross are the product of a black female-white male relationship. Most black men don’t dislike the show because she is smashing the white President. Who cares? Maybe they don’t like the show because they don’t like the theme or the writing or late night soap operas.
    But spoiler alert: men are men and white men have been subjugating women as long as black men if not longer in this country. The great white hope: It’s a unreal fantasy that if black women just dated all these white men ( who for that matter are leaving white women for Asian women) then all would be good. Black women being with white men should be because you want to and he makes you happy not to spite brothas. Love is about two people not the whole community. But hey I am black man who has only dated black women and am not threatened by white men and black women together. It’s logical because there are a lot more black women than black men in the world.

  • Jamilia

    “As if Black women are not blasting “Bands Can Make Her Dance” out of car stereos, everywhere across America.”

    That’s a good point.

    Some of the points that Kirsten, the author, mentioned seem to be true. But it seems that too many black men and black women are just looking for reasons to be at each others’ throats. It’s rather old

  • http://gravatar.com/dorknation Mark

    @Sasha

    The OP is making a very specific accusation about Black men without much to show what she’s saying is accurate. I’m not asking for a scholarly piece, just a couple of quotes from her FB friends to at least give *some* validity outside a “feeling.” You can’t really address a problem if you can’t show there really is one. We can’t talk amongst ourselves with any seriousness if all we have is a “feeling.” I’m a judge. If one side has just one shred of evidence and the other side has a “feeling,” guess who I will rule in favor of.

    Unfortunately, the same goes for your personal circumstances. I have a friend who is married inter-racially. His wife always “feels” Black women have a problem with her, treat her differently in stores and whatnot *even when* she is not with her husband. He might agree that there will be some women who will look at her sideways when they are together, but all women all the time even when they aren’t together? Not likely.

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com Trueletterson

    We don’t have a ego problem we have seen this all of our life at every level, we read about it doing slavery how the black women was raped by the slave master, we know and heard about how black maids have a baby come home to her black husband and children and the baby is half white and guess what the father is the white man she work for, now to the present we black men know and have seen by far the black women sleeping running around and sleeping with her white co workers and bosses and yes the well educated career minded black women willingly sleeping around with her white male managers and co workers hoping to get a career advancement or find a white mate then when it don’t happen she get mad and wonder why the black don’t honor her and want marry her. We have no problem with our ego, we know it is what it is because we are in a time now where the black women view sleeping with the slave master great great grandson as a badge of honor and empowering he don’t have to rape her all he got to do is dangle a title in front of her and he can get all he want then go back to his white wife! We black men know the deal that’s all!

  • http://gravatar.com/dorknation Mark

    @leelah

    I’m not just talking about major network shows with Black female leads. I guess there are a glut of shows that you lot don’t view, like several shows on the Sci-Fi channel, a short lived series on the USA network (4400). That said, speculative fiction shows have also been better in showing serious BM/BF relationships as well, sometimes because the actor has the power to demand it (Avery Brooks in Star Trek:DS9) or a more recent series, Alphas (with Malik Yoba).

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com Trueletterson

    Bravo! Thank you I couldn’t have made the case any better!

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com Trueletterson

    I have more respect for Shawty Lo ten babies mamas that the likes of Olivia Pope in Scandal

  • http://twitter.com/NaijaAdditude Mr. E (@NaijaAdditude)

    We are still having this debate in 2013 about interracial relationships. Thats not the issue with Scandal, most guys just not into shows like though. It is full of drama which is drive more female viewers. The president and Ms.Pope’s affair has been happening with years where powerful white men have a black concubine , it is normally kept in secret.

  • Blue

    I totally agree with you. I honestly didn’t know it was a debate. I’m a women who doesn’t watch it. When I did I loved the story line but I couldn’t watch Ms Washingtons acting. Men could really care less.

  • Gideon

    I wonder how receptive this show would be if Kerry Washington was the President’s wife and a white woman played the happy home-wrecker.

  • kissofdanger

    I “soap opera” a curse word or something? I keep hearing this show is to soapish as if there is something wrong with that. Most TV and movies are geared towards men despite the fact that women are the majority consumers. There is nothing wrong with female character centered plot lines. Scandal has something fro everyone.

  • Tim

    If the producers really wanted to be “progressive” they’d have cast a dark skin or even better a dark, overweight, natural hair sister with distinct West African features as the love interest of The President (a white man). That’s really your dream fantasy. Is America ready for a white man loving on a fat black woman on their tv screen? I’d actually watch that show. :-)

    Isn’t that the type of woman you all complain about not seeing as the love interest of black men on these shows? Is that too deep for you all or are the features of a black woman not important when the man is white?

  • binks

    “Black women are not so lacking in role models that we have idealized a make-believe woman and defend her right to sleep with the make-believe president.”

    BOOM! This said it all! Like I said before, why are we going harder than a hand basket to defend/condemn a fictional character? I hear people write and speak of her like she is a real person like both the trolls and crusaders need to calm it down a bit. Like if you want to give props to some of Olivia Pope’s characteristics and professional aspects if you like her and identify with her (not necessarily the sensationalize part of the show) than her name is Judy A. Smith who Olivia is loosely based off and inspired by and sista is FLY as hell! Let’s not put fictional characters on a pedestal and forget real black women role models.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    OMG, lol, thanks K. Michel.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    That would be the smart thing to do.

  • Shelly

    @Liz…Oh, I “get it.” And I still don’t care. If stereotypes and catering to whites (like Oprah does) is what gets you mainstream success in America, count me out. I love Oprah and Obama, but personally, I am not bowing down to white people’s needs so that they will like me. There are some shows from back in the day that did not have to try so hard to please a white audience (Living Single, A Different World) and they were fairly successful. If we had shows with good writers and interesting characters and storylines, our shows could be successful without including random white people and stereotypes. Maybe not as successful as Scandal, but at least we could keep our dignity and pride in ourselves. I would have more respect for the show if it stood up against what white people want, but I understand that to be rich in American, white folks have to love you, and for that to happen, you have to cater to them. But it won’t be me, and I won’t be supporting it.

  • Stef

    I’m a guy who like the show. Never knew it was a gender thing, it’s tv drama nothing more nothing less , it’s really not that deep.

  • eshowoman

    The white woman in this case was a home wrecker. That is how the Oliva/Fitz relationship started. Five years from now when the show ends Liv and Fitz will be happily married, some black men will still be up in arms with this FICTIONAL character.

  • http://twitter.com/kindred985 Nikk wILL (@kindred985)

    I care less than a hoot whom black females talk to. If it be a white male or purple transgendered, i care less and why do any women happy with a man of any color care what a man of their own think? Puzzling? This is a form of inner ethnic hatred in its seedling type beginnings that will beget a race of light brown vs very dark whom will hate one another. think Haiti vs DR, Very sad that Nagaz are too dumb to see whats being done with them. Screw or marry your caucasoid lover and shut up about it already.

  • class of fitness

    I see you like ‘Friday Foster’, cool

  • CHRISTINA

    They have computers in jail???

  • eshowoman

    It was with a ex-porn star with a toe sucking fetish. He was white.

  • truth hurts

    “creative, political and societal nuance,”

    LOL!

    Though I suppose, if Basketball Wives and Real Housewives of Atlanta is your usual fare, you might think this show is more than a nighttime soap opera

    You can call it “true wuv”, but screwing a married man with a pregnant wife is hoe behavior and NOT a good look for bw. No matter how smart and sophisticated she is, Washingston’s character is the white guy’s jumpoff who takes a backseat to his white WIFE. Period. Point blank.

  • http://www.facebook.com/marlon.ball.3 Marlon Ball M Ed

    Kerry Washington will win an Oscar/Grammy for her role, because she is the concubine of a powerful white man. Halle Berry got the same for being f*cked by a white man on camera. #SallyHemming #MamieBellMann#1893
    #ThomasJefferson #ThomasHarrisonStokes1856

  • Tracey

    Kristen,
    Thank you for that excellent article!!! I co-sign on everything that you said!!! Unfortunately black men are not the only ones with a problem with Scandal, some very self-ritcheous
    black women have a problem with this wonderful show as well.

  • truth hurts

    So being a married man’s side piece is pedestal status? Bird mentality, but I expect nothing less (or should I say more) from a babymama. #noweddingnowomb

  • jay

    For some black women, Scandal represents the ultimate fantasy: a powerful white man hopelessly in love with a black woman. This fantasy dates back to the slave plantation where white men held the power of life and death. The reality is that white men have been having sex with black women for 400 years yet when it comes time to choose a wife will always find a white woman.

  • Sharon

    Great Article. We should continue to peel off the layers every week.

  • p

    L.M.A.O AT ALL OF THESE COMMENTS and the trolls……. Where michael ealy and kanye at?

    Oh look@smh and chillyroad/qon….the Black women police who must swoop in if ANY Black woman dare to step out of her place(i.e mention Black women and *others*, dare to respond to/insult Black men who feels free anywhere, anytime to insult Black women , but Black women must NEVER, EVER respond likewise, etc).

  • p

    @I what a ???????LMAO!

    I dont know….but two summers ago I worked in a certain area and I was *seeing* without sex about 5 Pakistanis, 1 Hispanic, 1 Black and 1 White guy….true story and fun times.

  • justanotheropinion

    Da truth: “The reality is that white men have been having sex with black women for 400 years yet when it comes time to choose a wife will always find a white woman.”

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson Trueletterson

    Jay your comment is wise, fact base and on target but you got a lot of thumbs down on this comment, that tell you the mindset of the black women today, now back to your comment then after he choose a white wife the black women is hurt, sad and disappointed cause she foolishly thought she was going to be the wife then she look around and wonder why she is not held in honor by the black man and say there is no good black men around after she have ruin her reputation with the white man!

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson Trueletterson

    You are right, The reality of it is most real black men [I am one] have no interest in watching a black women sleep around with a bunch of white men or any other race of man just like the white or Asian man have in interest in watching his women sleep around with other race of men that’s the long and short of it!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    It’s funny to me just how far logic and reason fly out the door with people like the author in their zeal to support something that they identify with so strongly. Let’s take a look at her poor attempt to discredit legitimate criticism:

    1) “But these anti-Scandal black men are a wily bunch. Oh yes, they are. They realized that they couldn’t continue to post pictures of Kim Kardashian on Monday, quote little Wayne talking about “bet that bitch look better red” on Tuesday, break down all the reasons why white women stay “#winning” on Wednesday, then complain about a black woman being in love with a white man on Thursday.”

    I’m such a man and I never post pictures of Kim K or any white women. The insistence that there is this sort of hypocrisy in our criticism is likely just projecting. As evidenced by the author’s referencing of “Becky” the author seems to be hypocritically not quite as supporting of IR when it’s the other way around. After all, she wouldn’t be watching if the races of the leads were reversed. I personally would have a problem either way. I would be no less upset if the black male president was cheating on his black wife with a white star. Somehow I don’t think the author is as consistent. I doubt she would be writing an article in support of the show.

    2) “So, what’s the new tactic? Slut-shaming.”

    It’s not really slut shaming if she is sleeping with a married man. Slut shaming is about shaming women that are involved in sexual relations that violate traditional gender expectations ie. sleeping with numerous partners or having casual sex — the types of things that would not be problematic if a man were doing them. It’s not concerning things that are messed up to do for any gender. It’s not slut shaming if you shame a girl for doing genuine dirt or messed up things. If you shame a woman for taking advantage of a drunk person, for sleeping with a child, or sleeping with someone that is already married, then it is legitimate shaming and a man would not get treated any differently for engaging in that sort of misdeed.

    Sleeping with a married man is indefensible and I seriously doubt the author would be talking about slut shaming if a white girl were the mistress and the wife was black.

    3) “This is about hyper-masculinity, patriarchy and possession. For once, a black woman is depicted on screen who is one self-reliant, skilled, bad-ass business-woman capable of making her own decisions based on choices independent of black male control — and she chose a white man.”

    If this was about those things then why are not all of the other numerous depictions of black women with white men being similarly treated? Why didn’t you see any petitions about Hawthorne? Why didn’t you see any black male protests about Meagan Good sleeping with most of the cast of Californication last season? Why don’t you see any criticism of Parenthood? Why was there no boycott of Lincoln Heights or any of the many other shows depicting black women in romantic situations with white men? It seems that if the problem was hyper-masculinity, patriarch, and possession, that we would be protesting all of these BW/WM representations equally. Kerry Washington is usually in roles opposite white men and she has NEVER gotten this sort of backlash.

    This is about the fact that in the rare situation where a black person is cast as the lead protagonist with has a ton of power, intelligence, skill, and education, that she is still ruled by her sexual urges and lust. She is still being depicted as so insatiable as to avoid the advances by a married white man — a situation where she should objectively not be giving in to her sexual desires. This is not a positive depiction and it is shocking that supposed black feminists would suspend all reason and rational thought in the defense of such a depiction. The fact that you can’t even entertain the idea that there might be legitimate criticism speaks volumes of how blinded by the love of this character some folks are.

    “More importantly, she chose love with all its drama attached — no racial qualifier needed.”

    She chose sex with a married man. Sex and love aren’t quite the same thing and it seems the author has confused the two.

    This is about the fact that she is having sex with a rich, older, married, white man. It’s all of it together that evokes imagery of slavery and the tradition of black women being mistresses instead of wives. I refuse to support black women being depicted in such a manner. And I’m consistent. I haven’t watch BET since the 90s, nor do I watch reality TV.

    BTW, many black men, as well as men of other races, don’t like the show because they think it sucks. This show, along with all Shonda Rhimes shows, are targeted at and tailor made for women. Many men think Grey’s Anatomy sucks too. Scandal is essentially the new Glee — favorite show of countless women, but boring, overacted melodrama with cringe-worthy dialogue.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I don’t think you would call the wife the home wrecker if she were black. i think the blame would be placed on the cheating husband and the mistress that decided to sleep with him while he was still married. If the relationship is doomed, then why not wait til the divorce is finalized? I guess love is so patient after all.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I only date black women, and my house is brick. I’m also not into slim.

    #gettingmystonesready

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    cardinal sin:

    don’t ever say anything negative about Fitz. he is perfect in every way.

  • http://twitter.com/Oy_aN Oyan (@Oy_aN)

    There was a concern, because black women were purposely, left out of the story/film, and a white female was the sole image of female/love’; There is a good chance that there were black women in the lives of the real life flyers. That’s why there was ‘concern’.

  • http://twitter.com/Oy_aN Oyan (@Oy_aN)

    I figured that out when I noticed how the white characters, were ‘stepping to’ Olivia Pope’s character every week.

    I thought, how/why is Pope’s character not putting these folk (consistently) in their place? Ex. The scene in ‘The Trail’, when ‘Pres. Grant’s character, screams/yells at Ms. Pope to get out ‘of the damn car!’. What? Then, it dawned on me…Strategy…

  • http://twitter.com/Oy_aN Oyan (@Oy_aN)

    Not me. I like the show for it’s escapism, plot line/story of the week, the clothes and the ‘witty’ lines/writing. The IR affair is just icing, not the cake. Oh, and love that Ms. Washington is the central character, Ms. Rhimes is exec.producer, and that ‘Olivia Pope’ is based on a real life black female character.

  • Cassie Smith

    However, this isn’t about black men who chose to not watch the show or simply dislike it.There are plenty of people of all races and genders who dont like the show. Of course people aren’t going to like it as much as others. This is about black women being attacked for liking a show. This is about the men who use slut shaming to make black women feel guilty for watching the show. And this is about men who cannot take seeing a successful powerful black woman who is multifaceted and complex and is in a relationship with a white man, that other black women love to watch. If that is not you then that is okay. Not once in this article did the writer claim that ALL black men are guilty of this. Just because you do not identify with the claims made in this article does not mean such do not exist.

  • http://justclimbingnow.blogspot.com Jae

    Please stop dating black women. I beg of you. Some Becky needs her a chocolate covered banana and you are cruel to deny it to her.

  • Billy Paul

    And correct me if I am wrong here, but a blog’s revenue stream results from advertisements on their site and advertisers are willing to pay higher advertising premiums the more popular the site. Hence, explicitly turning down hits arguably puts Clutch’s revenue stream at risk. Is this a part of Clutch’s business model?

    Is this about business or a personal vendetta.

    Be not mislead, Billy thinks the author is extremely talented and all commentors made good points, although I may not agree 100% with everything that was posted.

  • simplyme

    First, thats great that you think that way. But Its clearly more than “men just don’t watch it because its like a soap opera.” She specifically cited in the article that she noticed a lot of Black men on social media actively saying negative things about the show because of who she is with. Thats who she is talking about. Congrats for falling into that 23.79 % but unfortunately not all of your brethren agree as you can see from these ridiculous comments.

    Its Halle Berry Monster’s Ball all over again…Black guys were the main ones trying to discredit her Oscar. And the whole “sexual degradation” argument is a joke because for some reason they only seem to care when a White man is doing it. I remember when that white rapper MGK made a crass comment about Black women and “fellatio” at an award ceremony guys were up in arms “how can a Black woman ever be a fan??” But its rare to see….really personally have never ever heard a Black man stand up to the countless Black rappers who make it their professional duty to sexually degrade Black women. Which is what leads the author, me, and any woman with a brain to believe that a lot of those comments are not coming from a place of support or activism but of entitlement, insecurity, and hypocrisy.

    Its a night time drama involving a powerful woman in a steamy affair with the President. Women of all races love the show. That includes Black women who especially love it because the main character is Black. There really isn’t much else to it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    For realz. Nothing more. And, why can’t a Black man not care for the programme simply because it’s a soap opera, and not have it to do with feelings if “ego”, “emasculation”, etc? Please. This article is bs, and what provocative bs at that.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    @Jae,

    No thanks on the white girls. That’s what Reggie Bush and RGIII are for.

  • CHRISTINA

    newsflash black dudes (i would call yall men but that would be a lie)…

    Being the sidepiece to a rich white man > Being the main chick to the average black dude.

  • simplyme

    Lol the delusion is real.

    Its a friggin drama involving a powerful woman in a steamy relationship with the President. Woman of all races love the show…that includes Black women who especially like it because the main character happens to be Black woman who is a bamf. Her hero flaw is that she is in love with a married man. It adds to the drama and it fulfills some forbidden fantasies that most women of all races may have secretly because he’s the President and is extremely powerful. It has nothing to do with his being White. There isn’t much more to it than that. We aren’t living 400 years ago.

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    Very well stated. My wife, as far as shows created by Shonda Rhimes, ie, ‘Grey’s Anatomy’, ‘Private Practice’, had similar views. Men just don’t care about those programmes in large numbers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    Somehow, ‘Deception’ is even worse; more poorly written, more poorly acted. I can’t stomach either. Honestly, I’ve been (re)checking out ‘The Good Wife’ from the beginning.

  • Seven

    You are right. In reality however, Black Women have always taken a back seat to White Women whether we wanted to or not.

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    That second quote seems pretty specific to me, actually. Not necessarily accurate, although I recognise the sentiment.

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    Indeed. Gender and ethnicity.

  • modern lady

    I really don’t think the average brotha gives “Scandal” or black females dating out of their race very much thought. As well they shouldn’t. I’ve seen a few episodes of the show, and I was a bit shocked, appalled, etc. by some of those sex scenes- I mean having a leading (see: respectable) black woman is apparently too much to ask these days.

  • jae

    Blah, blah, blah jay.

  • jae

    I think that the point of this article is that too many black men will date, worship and glorify white women while putting down black women as a whole. They have no problem running credit cards through the asses of black “hoes” in videos and rapping disrespectful words about them but suddenly Scandal is a BIG problem. Give me a break. He was married when he MET Olivia and if he hadn’t been, he wouldn’t be married to the white woman in the first place. Deal with it. It is a television show. Black women’s issues and dealings with far too many black men are REAL LIFE. Bet half of you complaining brothas wouldn’t have given Olivia the time of day because she is far too intelligent, articulate and successful for you. You would rather have your Kanye West ideal of the “perfect bitch” being Kim Kardashian. Right. GIVE ME A BREAK!

  • jay

    The fantasy so many black women have of being in a relationship with a powerful white man is real. Just look at the proliferation of black women blogs focused entirely on dating white men. Any black woman who says she doesn’t know at leat one black woman obsessed with white men is being dishonest. I would never deny that black many black men also suffer from White Woman Fever but it really seems that black women are unable, or unwilling, to concede even the most obvious points.

  • Tim

    I’m sure you speak from previous experience.

    Those white men knew who they were dealing with. Never try to change a whore into a housewife.

  • EST. 1986

    SMH, but chuckling to myself at the same time.

  • EST. 1986

    What is a ‘light skin pass’?

  • Chic Noir

    I think there is some truth in what Chillyroad wrote but it certainly doesn’t apply to all blk women.

  • Chic Noir

    ^^^And cable TV too girl.

  • Chic Noir

    *Sprays troll repellant all over body.passes bottle off to Rudoh*

    They got me itching already.

  • Deb

    I’m always amazed at the vitriol and resentment african american men and women seem to have towards each other. All these comments (the back and forth) is just sad to read. God help us.

  • Chic Noir

    Agreed T.

  • Chic Noir

    You know, I only listened to half of that song. I thought the song was about twerking or freak dancing. I had no idea the song was so gutter.

    I guess the Temptations or the Whispers wouldn’t be able to pay someone to give them a contract.

  • truth hurts

    Lo and behold, this is exactly why the majority of you will never be anything more than a babymamas and bedwenches.

  • EST. 1986

    Lol.

    *Comments never post properly on here. They were supposed to fix this, like a year ago.

  • Pseudonym

    No, the fantasy is a beautiful, powerful black woman who’s basically running everything and her power is acknowledged and respected.

  • The Other Jess

    Tell that to Diana Ross’s husband(s)

  • The Other Jess

    the fact that you think “educated, career-minded” Black women are sleeping around with their white co-workers or bosses shows your head is way up Hollywood’s ass and you’re delusional. Quick, get your meds !

  • DownSouth Transplant

    Wow wow Ravi, what happened to intelligent intellectual responses with substance void of reactionary emotions?.
    #playgroundisroughtoday

  • Zindzi

    LOL, WHAT?!? As a Black womban, who would probably know far more about who Black womben are sleeping with (especially in the workforce) I can say that you just made your whole comment up. I’m sure there are some sistas who’ve slept with managers (the fact that you act like managers can only be white men says a lot about what YOU think of Black men and womben of all races) to get ahead, but that’s no more common among us than anyone else. Acting like this is something you’ve seen constantly is just FUNNY.

    And I need for Black men to stop talking about how white men aren’t going to marry Black womben until THEY start marrying all the Black womben they procreate with. Until then, stop acting like white men are doing something to Black womben y’all don’t do far more.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    @DownSouth Transplant

    If you type CTRL F and do a search for “Ravi” then you will find such responses written directly below. I don’t know how to respond any other way. I don’t do reactionary emotion and everything I type has substance.

  • The Other Jess

    Oh Tim…you’d like nothing more to see than that, wouldn’t you? Then you could ease your intraracist mind with “yep, all those Black woman are oh-so-fat that I could never bring myself to date one!” Maybe they should cast an overweight, dark-skinned natural haired BROTHA with a white woman.

    i mean a 300-pounder like Faizon Love or 1/3rd of the old skool trio, The Fat Boys! When will we will see the brothas who look like them get represented? There are sooo many like that, and since you’re so concerned for heavy Black women, how about their heavy Black male counterparts? That should ease your feelings of guilt of not seeing a heavy Black woman – show a heavy Black man for equality!

  • Kim

    But you all do it every day. You have convined yourselves that black women don’t know the women you chose.

  • Zindzi

    Of course, and that’s the authors point. You all are perfectly comfortable with Black womben being exploiited by BLACK MEN. Your only issue is that she’s with a white man. That’s it.

  • The Other Jess

    insecure much, aren’t you? did some black woman break your por, wittle heart? sorry to hear that.

  • Kim

    She looks like me and most of my friends and we never have been called white looking. Lol! Dear God, some of you have lost your minds.

  • The Other Jess

    Ladies, do your thing and to hell with black men. Sorry, but it comes down to that. in this day and age, black men will try to diminish you more than even the KKK back in the day. thus, build your own brand, prove yourself worthy WITHOUT their validation. otherwise, their self-hatred and unfounded hatred for their own women WILL leave you single. men from all over the world have always loved and had great relations with me and other black women. gaslighting from black men means nothing more than you make it yourself.

  • The Other Jess

    ad btw, no, i am not saying abandon black men or not date them. just date who you want, of any race, and don’t let black men goad you or bully you about it. bullies are bullies, no matter the race, and we have many entitled bullies among black men.

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson Trueletterson

    Black women like you are just plane old stupid you refuse knowledge and want to believe in a fairy tale!

  • The Other Jess

    No, you have no idea what it means to be strategic. The stupidest thing black people ever did was start quoting the lie that a black leading couple on TV makes it a ratings loser. it’s not the black couple that makes it a ratings loser, its that racists who think two black people in a relationship is enough to not watch and cancel a show!

    please remember that not very long ago, no black person, even as an individual man or woman, would have played lead roles, or even have existed on many TV shows simply because racists didn’t think anyone wanted to see a black man or a black woman on TV.

    If our parents could fight to make it acceptable to see black people in lead roles, then we can fight to make it acceptable to see black couples in lead roles. If two white people can lead a show that non-whites will watch, then a black coule can do the same. please miss me with that bogus and self-defeating attitude. it’s the most pathetic argument i have ever heard spring fortg from the mpuths of black people. what a losing attitude!

  • http://gravatar.com/ninamarrissa QuestionsBeforeActions

    These kinds of articles attack a very specific issue in our community that you addressed directly. The idea that black still feel that they have the right to regulate the sexuality of grown black women by “shaming,” exactly as you are doing right now. A woman “ruled by sexual urges and lust?” Please don’t criticize shows you’ve never watched just to weigh in on another black woman’s sexuality.

  • EST. 1986

    You mean, that WOMAN.

  • Zindzi

    Amen to this comment and the one in response to BlackFuture’s response! We already KNOW you don’t care about Black womben and to say you do just isn’t believable in the face of how womben are treated in our community.

    That ain’t news.

  • Zindzi

    I KNOW you didn’t just say, “When do black men rush to see anything that doesnt evolve them?”

    That must be a particularly sticky brand of icky you’re smoking because the VAST MAJORITY of mainstream rap that TONS of Black men listen to ain’t evolving them at all. Stop playing.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Did you not read what I wrote above? I addressed the shaming issue. That’s not what slut shaming is. We do have the right and duty to regulate certain aspects of sexuality. Sex with minors, for example, is definitely something that should be shamed. Sleeping with married people likewise should be shamed. You can’t do dirt then hide behind this mis-applied idea of slut shaming. Understand what slut shaming actually means, then come back so we can have an informed conversation about the merits or lack thereof of my arguments. What I’m criticizing doesn’t necessitate my watching the show, and I’m not weighing in on another black woman’s sexuality. You do know Olivia Pope is a fictional character? I’m criticizing a popular representation, not an actual woman. Please don’t criticize what I write until you have taken the time to actually understand what I’m arguing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/larry.tree.7 Larry Tree

    quite true

  • Tara

    Well Robert De Niro and George Lucas and Roland Betts and Peter Norton (Norton Antivirus) to name a few a very powerful white men who fell in love with black women and ………actually married them. That is what black men want for rich, powerful, white men not to marry us. It would kill them if more do marry us. Oh and Melody Hobson whose future husband just gave away 4 billion dollars. Powerful white men can marry anyone theyy want and chose these women.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Is George Lucas who is pushing 70 marrying a sista barely older than his children a point of pride? is this winning? If she pulls Brad Pitt that’s one thing, but have you seen George Lucas? Melody needs to have her head examined. I hope the money is worth it. Paula Patton and Robin Thicke would have been a much better example.

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    I don’t know about the other brother’s, nor can I speak for them, as you shouldn’t, but, I could care less who white men marry. Maybe a white man is what you wish for yourself and your ilk; my Black woman has chosen me, and I her.

  • p

    @truel

    R.O.T.F.L.M.B.A.O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    Typical jump-off status. And, not shaming because you have none.

  • Lol

    In Miss America tune, “There he is, the hypnotist” I can almost see him waving an object and chanting, “BW you are getting sleepy. What you’re seeing is an illusion”

  • ?

    I’ve seen this said about Oprah on many occasions and must ask, how does/did Oprah cater to whites? Her TV show catered to women of all colors or is this another case of “not black enough” whatever the fuck that means.

  • leelah

    I know. I’ve been drunk all three day reading this mess. Nothing like a little sh&& talking with your cocktails. I’m going to go find this blueberry ice cream. I don’t think I’ve ever had that.

  • aj

    huh?

  • leelah

    george lucas is actually a very attractive older man. he’s cultured. and i’m sure he brings some very intelligent, interesting conversation. women aren’t like men. looks and youth isn’t everything

  • http://twitter.com/jeanpier_re jeanpierre (@jeanpier_re)

    It pains me to hear us talking about each other in such disparaging ways. The fact that a woman regardless of her race finds herself in a relationship with a married man is not right. It isn’t right for her and it isn’t right for the other two people involved in the love triangle. Then again, life is complicated as heck and it makes for damn good tv.

    I’m black, I’m a man and I’ve seen every episode of Scandal to date. As entertainment I enjoy it but history being what it is I can appreciate the inherit drama of Ms. Pope’s situation, and to her credit so can she.

    This reminds me of the significance of story telling. Shonda is clearly ahead of her time, a transcendent story teller, but the issue we face and have faced stems (in large part) from the lack of positive imagery in the black consciousness. Thank God for the 1st family but we need a lot and I mean a ton more positive images of healthy, loving black relationships. Hopefully we’ll see a reboot of the Cosby show written and produced by miss Rhimes (overly optimistic).

    Whatever happens. You’re all beautiful to me.

  • http://gravatar.com/silq02 Thyrteen

    I find this incredibly divisive. You pinpointed an area in which there was already division between Black men and women then chose to denigrate Black men and, in so doing, further drive a wedge. What positive purpose does this serve? Could this have not been written in defense of Scandal without simultaneously going on the offensive?

  • Tim

    @Kim

    No, I think you all have convinced yourselves that one Kim K and a bunch of Rapper girlfriends are the sum of non black women and black men relationships. You need to get out more often.

  • Obah Lovell

    I’m sorry to inform you, but not every black man fiends for white women.

  • http://chennadoll.tumblr.com pinklipstick227

    I find Christina’s comment to be dreadfully embarrassing. Sidepieces and main chicks? Is that what women are aiming for these days? Whatever happened to healthy partnerships as girlfriends, fiances, and wives? At the end of the day none of the women in that inequality are being claimed and I don’t want to have anything to do with a man who doesn’t want to claim me.

    This is just sad. I have no respect for black men and women who denigrate each other. White people as a whole aren’t better than us and I wish people would stop spreading such nonsense.

  • Waheed Mikle

    Correct me if I’m wrong. Judging by the comments, y’all don’t even want Black men on the site right?

  • Tara

    Amen to that!

  • Tara

    zyeah Lenny Kravitz and Traccey Ellis are products of bf/wm marriage. You black men want so desperately want black women to think white men wont marry them.

  • WB2

    I really have tried. I did. I have heard this show heralded from the mountain tops…but eh….i wanna join in but i couldn’t get past episode two of season one….i. just. couldn’t. Not sure if its Kerry’s Angela-Bassett-School-of-face-tics-acting…the way-too-fast-super-human-speed-talking…or what…but it ain’t clicking…so….

    Oh hey Ravi!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    George Lucas is attractive??? wow. He literally looks like he is in the process of swallowing a cantaloupe whole. He has no discernible chin. He wasn’t even attractive as a young man. I guess that’s race inflation. Bonus points for being rich and white. Somehow, I don’t think anyone would think he is attractive if he were a garbage man.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    care to elaborate or are you having trouble formulating intelligent arguments on the topic? I’ll give you some time.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    What’s good, WB2!!

  • Ask_ME

    @Ravi,

    You cannot tell black women who to deem attractive and unattractive. I happen to think George Luca is and always has been a CUTE man. I love his hair…it’s so thick.

  • gryph

    the show wouldn’t be anywhere near as popular if the president in scandal-world was a an asian or latino man. it is sad that black women are so put of by a black man as president, made president with a relationship with a strong, supportive black woman, that they have to flock to an imaginary world where a black woman runs things and is dangerously love with a white president.

    anyways, ‘scandal’ is the swirl industrial complex’s way of making sure that powerful black women put a ‘degraded’ relationship with a white man over that with a ‘legitimate one’ with a colored man. in other words, shoring up white supremacy. and if that’s not enough the show really isn’t that well made. but hey rimes knows her audience and her funders and gives each what they want.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Ask_Me

    I’m not telling black women who they can find attractive. Black women in general aren’t saying the guy is attractive. A few random people on the internet are saying he is attractive and you are hardly representative of black women in general. I’m sure if I polled women of any race, there won’t be many that say he is very attractive.

    I’m just expressing my utter shock that someone that is so clearly unattractive by almost any standard based in this reality, could be considered very attractive by anyone with fully functioning sight. I’m also theorizing that his money and whiteness are probably what makes him appear more attractive. Sort of like in that “Girls” article where people were talking about attractive black guys with fat ugly white women. I’m sure those guys thought that their fat ugly white women were attractive too. Same thing. He is like Lena Dunham except with a deformed neck, much older, and much nerdier.

    But if old, white, and ugly is your thing, then more power to you. beauty is clearly subjective as hell. I wouldn’t dream of telling you who you can and can’t find attractive. You can’t tell me not to laugh hysterically at your odd taste in men.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    from the neck up, he looks like honey boo boo’s mama with facial hair and aged about 40 years.

  • http://afrolistasandthecity.blogspot.com Von

    *in the Terry Richarson stance* Two thumbs up and several snaps! I love this and there’s nothing like hearing or reading the truth.

  • EST. 1986

    This comment didn’t end up where it was supposed to. You all just mindlessly thumbs down comments.

  • EST. 1986

    I replied to my own comment and it posted as a separate, new comment.

  • Really

    One can also say, on the flip side, this is exactly why the majority of you will never be anything more than multiple baby daddys dropping seeds left and right like un-neutered dogs.

  • Marisa

    Yep and were the only ones doing it in such a public way, whatever issues these other races got it stays in house, it would be one thing if were discussing how to help our community prosper. Nope its black women are this black men are that by our own people, shameful spectacle. My thing is we live in the world of internet gangstas folks get real bold behind keyboards. My hope is that a lot of these comments are by trolls who aren’t black men and women because for the ones who are should be ashamed of themselves.

  • Marisa

    Lets face it this is Shonda Rhymes here you gotta know any show she creates will have adulterous affairs as the foundation. Grey’s Anatomy and Private Practice nothing all kinds of adultery with them. This show just happens to have the two alleged soul mates as a black woman and a white man, no different than Meredith and Derek, George and Izzie half of Private Practice. Although I will say if Fitz loved Olivia like he claims then she would have meant more than his desire to be President. Run with her as your potential First Lady if you lost we all would know why lol As I said that guy wants his cake and eats it too and that kind of storyline gets old with me fast no matter how great the chemistry is between Tony and Kerry.

  • R

    George Lucas looks hideous. Robert Deniro is all wrinkled up. Some black women think every white man is a prize.

  • Jointarms

    Hehehehehe. Unfortunately, you are not funny. Suddenly, America re-elects the first African American President and First Family but Hollywood can’t handle a positive image of Black people so Hollywood decides to create a TV series where a married white man is the President but secretly pumping a black woman. Hmmm, sounds like someone can’t have reality so they dream. Get it. Dreaming…Hehehehehe. Their exist married black men who don’t lust over women. Get real. 

  • Jointarms

    Naive. Yes it’s a show about race. Coward. Yes it’s a show about behavior modification. Nonsense. It’s a show that strives to attack taboo topics in the larger society. Mularky. It’s a show that continues to denigrate African Americans as creatures less than and will subject themselves to uncompromising immoral acts to survive. Pump the black woman. Feminized the black man. However, reality is we have re-elected the first Bi-racial President to a 2nd term and his African American family and Hollywood execs or White America are fuming. Delusion is believing your lying eyes.

  • Jointarms

    @QuestiosBeforeActions

    Naive. Yes it’s a show about race. Coward. Yes it’s a show about behavior modification. Nonsense. It’s a show that strives to attack taboo topics in the larger society. Mularky. It’s a show that continues to denigrate African Americans as creatures less than and will subject themselves to uncompromising immoral acts to survive. Pump the black woman. Feminized the black man. However, reality is we have re-elected the first Bi-racial President to a 2nd term and his African American family and Hollywood execs or White America are fuming. Delusion is believing your lying eyes.

  • Andrew

    I’m surprised the feminists on here aren’t bashing the married guy for cheating on his wife regardless of who the mistress is.

    But i think the real issue is that everyone will always see what they want to see in situations like this.

  • ASouthernAfrica

    I liked Scandal at the beginning. Then it became obvious that they were trying to force us to root for the couple by making the wife increasingly bitchy and crazy. I would’ve much preferred it if it was just about the woman and the man doing something they both knew was wrong without the annoying justification of: “but it’s okay because it’s twu wuv and besides, the wife is a bitch!” Maybe it’s just because in my experience most people who cheat tend not to do it because they don’t like their partner, but rather simply because they can.

    Also I disagree with the notion that pointing out that the Pres is married is somehow sexist. I can’t think of any film/tv show in which an adulterer was ever portrayed positively; a single man who sleeps with lots of women yes but a married man/ceo/politician who cheats? Almost always the bad guy who the wife leaves in order to get with, as they said on the Boondocks: “The light-skinneded gardener who loves [him] some jesus and loves [him] some [her].”

  • Hmmmm

    Great read and true. I think Scandal is great. Sisters can stop acting like they don’t fantasize about white dudes. I call it progress. Do you.

  • Bait debate

    I think right thinking blacks should SUE any media entity which purports to provide a service specifically for blacks if its output incites intra-racial hatred.

    There are laws against inciting racial hatred and laws against hate speech, and i believe those laws can and should be used against websites devoted to black on black inter gender bashing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    What is so progressive about that? Now, a Black man and woman publicly agreeing to disagree without the discourse dissolving into some of the exchanges I’ve witnessed in response to this highly divisive and altogether crappy OPINION piece (become familiar with that concept), now THAT would be progress.

  • JNique27

    love your article! thanks for tellin’ in like it sho nuf is!!

  • Honest

    @ArabellaMichaela

    please hurry that movement up, but leave black men out of your mouth. I doubt it tho.

  • Honest

    @Ask_Me

    No rebuttal, classic

  • Honest

    These “wannabe” negro bed wenches are off the hook.

    These older BW blew it & had to suffer the consequences.

    Good night

  • Hmmmm

    Yeah I have no time for that discourse….all I’ll say.

    I’m as pro-black as anyone. More than most, actually. I have not time or need to police someones desires. I think it is progressive in that it will maybe help raise the level of discourse as it relates to this topic about choice and possession….so that it is not all about black men who don’t like or love black women. I’m tired of waiting to exhale moments and stories. Seriously. I feel that that tired old line is in part a byproduct of the reigns some sisters put on what they desire. A world where black women feel free to be real about their fantasies or desires is one where I can feel free in regards to my own.

  • Hmmmm

    yes we can. do you.

  • grey

    You are so right. Some black people have no shame. They leave the most nasty and hateful comments about their own race and many of these people consider themselves progressive. They are pathetic.

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    You right! Any man [black, white, red, yellow etc.] worth his salt can’t stand to see his women with another race of man and base on yours comment and other mis educated people who like and defend Me. Pope action you have been “hit in the head, and lost knowledge or never had knowledge[mis educated] and are living the life of beast”, and the sad thing about it is y’all stupid enough to revel in it and brag about it!

  • Ms. Vee

    I can’t understand why black women enjoy this show. To take pride in a show that, yet again, portrays us as a side piece/ negro bed wench shows how low we have fallen. SMH

  • Wake up

    I read your article and thought it was on point, every word. Then I read some comments and saw that the “caped crusaders” came out of the woodworks (black women who defend black male opinions no matter what without any reciprocation) and that got old real quick. Just wanted to say you have some fiyah writing skills. As far as the topic, I agree with everyone who said who cares what they think, I’ll be tuning in for season 2-10.

  • WhatIThink

    I wish clutch would stop pretending that somehow white men having their way with black women’s panties is somehow new. Please.

    White men have always had their way with black women’s panties, whether during slavery, during jim crow or after. It has always been there. The only difference was that in the past those black women had no choice in the issue for the most part. But now for whatever reason some black women actually believe they are somehow “liberated” by dating non black people.

    Black people will not be liberated by dating non black people. That is the sinister agenda of this “melting pot” culture which tries to convince black folks that freedom and liberation is defined by interracial relationships. Please.

    And if anyone bothers to check the history the numbers of black entertainers married to, having babies by or relationships with non blacks is too long to mention and goes back to even during the times when black men were being lynched on a daily basis.

    Just like it didn’t do anything to empower or liberate black folks then, it doesn’t do it now, no matter how much some boneheads like to pretend it does.

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    You are right on point!

  • tru

    Thank you so much! There is absolutely nothing new or progressive about black women having sex with white men. It has been going on for 400 years. White men have always had unlimited access to the body of black women. In the past white men raped black women. Now black women run to them.

  • http://www.imanagerealtygroup.com You can’t handle the Truth

    Black men have been dating White women for years with no regard for how Black feel about it. They all seem to have this, do as I say, and not as I do type attitude.

    I could care less! Don’t get me started on the number of Black, single moms in this country raising children alone because the “Black” man walked away from his family and failed to take responsibility for the child/children.

    So keep that nonsense to yourself.

  • http://www.imanagerealtygroup.com You can’t handle the Truth

    I want African-American women to stop dating DOWN just to date a Black man. I heard a Black man say when I was 9 years old that he dated a White woman because he wanted attractive children. He couldn’t see that happening with a Black woman.

    I never forgot that statement. I’m in my 40′s! So, Mr. Black man you’ve been tainting Black women’s views of you for a long time because of your self-hatred. Scandal has nothing to do with it. You don’t feel worthy of a Kerry Washington character. Probably because you know a sister as well put together as this character would have you.

    She’s out of your reach. Even the so-called boyfriend with an education and powerful position has NO control over Ms. Washington. So what in the world could an average Joe do for her? So many women have to dumb themselves down to even have a conversation with certain men. If the man who’s interesting is non Black, then so be it. Sad part about this is that White women don’t need anything to qualify to be with a Black man except—->drum roll———–>the color of her skin.

    Go fly a KITE!

    COME ON THURSDAY!!

  • MG

    Sigh. I hate articles like this…it just does more to divide people, especially comments like this – “This is about hyper-masculinity, patriarchy and possession.” It saddens me to read some of these comments as well. Seems like a lot of people love to demagogue others. We see this in a lot of aspects of society. Anyway, if black men hate this show because of the interracial component, then that’s too bad on them…and vice versa for black women who hate anything interracial. Usually says a lot about that person. Honestly, I’m amazed at some of the prejudice amongst us, considering our history of dealing with prejudice and discrimination. Very unfortunate.

  • John Forte

    A “completely random, unscientific, social media poll,” my arse! You blacks just look for any excuse to attck each other. Its in your slave DNA.

  • tru

    Exactly! There is a group of black women who have nothing but disdain for sisters who date black men. They view these women as inferior because, in their minds, only low quality black women have relationships with black men.

  • gryph

    the only thing wrong with scandal is that bigamy laws are in place. it is racist that olivia can’t marry three white men instead of one. she’s worked so hard and is so stressed out. she deserves it.

  • Honest

    I heard a Black man say when I was 9 years old that he dated a White woman because he wanted attractive children. He couldn’t see that happening with a Black woman.

    Just because you heard one coon spew self-hatred is not indicative of all, most or the majority of American black men.

    Try again & get over yourself. And nobody is stopping you from riding pink pen*s

  • C

    LOL! Black women, please unplug yourself from the Matrix! It’s obvious you like to be the white man’s concubine.

    Monica Lewinsky is considered a hoe, but this “Scandal” chick is not? LOL!!!

    I find it funny how Black Women love to give the best of themselves to white or non-Black Men, but give Black Men the attitude, ego, and the funky- independent attitude!

    It’s funny that the first major show centered around the president’s side piece involves a black woman. Pathetic!

    But hey, I can’t blame you. Your white daddy takes care of you. He did it back in slavery and he does it now (welfare). Truth be told, a lot of Black women were not raped. They volunteered to sleep with the slave master.

    When the Black man was trying to organize a slave revolt or run away… guess who snitched. That’s right the bed wench!!!!

    I love history!

  • C

    I think I might tune in. So what time does The Ghetto Gagger show come on?

  • SweetMay

    Please go f*ck yourself and drop dead. You whites are constantly coming onto Black sites because in your feeble, inferior DNA, you want to be us. Jealousy is a bitch ain’t it boy?

  • SweetMay

    You whites are constantly stalking Black sites to put your two cents in, two cents that no one cares about. But, I know that you’re inferior DNA compels you to be jealous of the great Blacks that you try to hard to put down. God don’t like ugly, so stop insulting your forefathers.

    Please, choke on a d*ck and drop dead.

  • SweetMay

    You whites are constantly stalking Black sites to put your two cents in, two cents that no one cares about. But, I know that you’re inferior DNA compels you to be jealous of the great Blacks that you try to hard to put down. God don’t like ugly, so stop insulting your forefathers.

    Please, choke on a d*ck and drop dead.

  • Tara

    whatever…next?

  • C

    Did you roll your neck and point your finger when you said that? LOL!

    But is it not true?

  • http://gravatar.com/nadanone nadanone

    “Hey you racist! Im gonna show you how I can be equally racist!!! take THAT!”

  • http://clutch Tene

    The interesting part of this, most movies and TV shows , show interracial couples as being a black man and white women. No one makes a big deal about. I want to see more show with strong black smart women, who date/ marries out side her race, and can make mistake sometimes, human..
    I would like to see strong black smart power couple on a major TV show, not just The Cosby’s show.

  • Tara

    Yeah. Lenny Kravitz and Tracey Ellis are products of bf/wm marriage. You black men want so desperately for black women to think white men wont marry them

  • C

    The best comment on this board! Thanks for posting! Media is a powerful tool. Its the reason white men joined the KKK in record numbers after “Birth of a Nation” came out!
    “The Color Purple ” made the Black Men ain’t sh**” campaign sky rocket!

  • chinaza

    I’m not even trying to be negative. But I just find this show to be so boring.

  • DsEyez

    Latino, white, Asain, any man for that matter

  • Rich

    Oscars for playing maids or for getting falling in love with and being sexually demeaned by the racist who helped execute your black husband. And what kind of perverse poverty porn is “Precious”?

    On TV, get the lead in a network primetime show by playing the mistress of a powerful white man or being sexually available to them. Seems like there’s a theme to me…

  • tutu7

    Points well made and glad someone else is pointing out the hypocrisies. I’m not a huge kerry washington fan, but iam intrigued and interested in her new role in media and in how this image will affect the ways black women are percieved because that is what the media does. Change general perceptions. This is based on a real woman and many real women that are not seen often or promoted. For good or bad. I dont think its a bad thing to hype up big butt caucasians or to show super intelligent beautiful thoughtful successful, passionate and irresistable to the president who happens to be caucasian…its not really a big stretch. Lets do an experiment and show how truly dynamic all women are and show the real side of black women the vulnerability, the utter beauty, sensiti vity, wisdom, all that instead of the limited vision offered on reality t.v. maybe if we reverse stereotype for a while we can get to root of the problem.

  • http://Clutch SL

    Hmmm, and how come only a white woman can save a black man …. Most Hollywood movies play that tired line over and over and over again aka Denzel Washington’s character in Flight who falls for a strung out piece of trailer park trash…but even that TPT ended up being the black man’s savior.

    I am glad is showing AA women that they have options…options black men have been exercising for decades.

  • C

    By the comments and this article, It’s obvious you guys like to be a white man’s side piece.
    That’s why I’m not surprised that a good looking black female prison guard slept with a pedophile/neo nazi skin head gangbanger inmate in Orange County, CA. TRUE STORY! Just occured recently. Look it up! LoL! This white boy with racist Hitler tattoos on his face and body spit a little game and got some. LoL!
    I wonder if Clutch is going to cover this????

  • v

    Scandal is the black woman’s ultimate fantasy: A powerful white man in love with a black woman. A white man represents the highest form of validation. White men raped and sodomized black women for more than 300 years and now black women are worshipping their offspring. The black race is lost.

  • ro

    I read that story. Any white man can get a black woman. This guy was covered in nazi tattoos and dedicated to eradicating the black race but she still f@cked him. WTF!

  • C

    I wonder if this show would be on the air if it was a black president and white side piece?
    This is an abc show right. I forgot this the same company afiliated with Disney (I think). Princess and the Frog – FIRST Black Disney Princess, but no Black Prince??? And Black women try to shame us!!! Its obvious they’re trying to program our little girls to be the white man’s concubine or hoe at a young age!

  • C

    “Princess and the Frog” The first black Disney princess but no black prince or hero ??? (A company tied to abc) Explain this “Scandal” fans! Its obvious they are trying to train you to become the white man’s concubines at an early age through adult hood! Did Black men protest this cartoon, “Lakeview Terrace,” or “Something New” ??? Nope!

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson Trueletterson

    Great point! however you are shooting way over these race natural, liberal and progressive women head and guess what they think they are intelligent, and don’t be surprise if you don’t get 100 thumbs down on this site because they believe up is down, and down is up, left is right and right is left and front is back and back is front you got it radical feminist have made them stupid and got them all messed up in the head to the point where they revel in being the slave master great great great grandson concubine! Great point.

  • http://[email protected] Trueletterson

    C first of all she should not have been in that job a job like that is not for females she probably was mentally over powered but feminist will never admit that however I hope Clutch don’t cover that because if they do then these well educated, think they are intelligent but stupid weak minded black women will start going out to fine a racist, neo nazi skin head to sleep with thinking it will some how liberate and empower them and at the same time hoping to stick a knife in the black man and revel in offending the black man then after the white man dump them and bring them them to a open shame they will say “It ain’t no good black men out there at my level”.

  • C2

    But deep down they have no pride in being black. That’s why the rally around a woman with fake hair in love with a white man!

  • C2

    Its obvious they are using the media to brainwash Black Women from childhood. Take “Princess and the Frog” for example. The first Black Disney Princess but no Black prince or man to rescue her??? Makes you wonder.
    Black Americans still have a slave mentality, that we need to break.
    But with Black Women, that slave mentality is worse with them. Even after more than 100 years later they are still want to be the white man’s bed whore.
    He made her feel comfortable and has in the Matrix, so she does not realize she’s still a slave and dependent on him. He gives her just enough. Take “Django” for example. Remember the fine slave woman/ negro bed wench hanging around the Leonardo Dicaprio slave master character. She was eating good at his table eating gormet food right!?

    Do you find it ironic that after MALCOLM X, DR. Martin Luther King and the Black Panthers, welfare and feminist programs came. Your white daddy will give you money, but you can’t have a man in the home. This created the “skrong-independent-I don’t need a man attitude-just give me the sperm and leave attitude” Its the reason they love them some thugs! Because a real Black Man with his stuff together is not going for that crap.
    But when a White Man (their God and Slave Master aka the original baby daddy) comes around all that attitude goes away. They know they have a screwed up mentality with Black Men. That’s why articles on the Internet talk about how to get a white man. I’ve read one that said “You have to drop the attitude”. So wait, its ok to give Black man attitude but when you date white men or non-black men you’re supposed to act like a lady???
    I have cousins in my family like this. They treat the educated, career having Black man like a little boy at picnics. But when they have a black thug or some trashy looking white dude with just a high school education, he gets treated like a king! I grew up in an 80 percent black part of a city in the Midwest. Please tell me why when I was 12 I found a poor white trash boy (Family had no problem flying the confederate battle flag on trucks and on their ragedy house) pumping the finest black girl in the neighboorhood in the woods near a creek??? LoL!

  • C2

    When you guys wear weaves aren’t you trying to look like “Becky.” So you black women are just chocolate covered Beckys! LoL!

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    Just the hard cold facts, y’all better realize.

  • C2

    She do. She has a weave covering up the kinky hair god gave her. One of the things that makes us different from other people on the planet, but black women like to cover it up! SMH!

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    C2 you are right, you and I love black women and want to see them happy, hold and complete however with all due respect the fact remains that the feminist movement of the 1960s made most black women including the most educated ones “stupid” and “careless”, liken to a arrogant drunk with no common sense, but we black men still love them, feel for them and care for them!

  • C2

    I agree. The feminist movement was started by Gay white women. It was not going any where so they recruited Black women to give it a boost. Black men were not opressing Black Women! Black men were fighting for Civil Rights for everybody (They forget the numbers of Black men killed behind it)
    Along with the feminism came all the government programs and welfare. They slowly tried to make the Black Man useless in our community. They know the power of a black 2 parent home because it can produce another Malcolm X, King or bright kid (studies have shown kids achieve more in life with a mother and father around).
    A boy can’t learn how to be a man from a woman. I grew up with my father and mother, but I had friends who were not. I noticed the female habits they picked up by living with a woman alone. (Example: Having a super large shoe collection). Other kids from my high school learned false manhood from gangbangers,pimps and thugs (the substitute for not having a male romodel)
    Yes, I love Black Women and that’s why it hurts to see them portrayed as Mammies, hoes and a white man’s side piece!

  • http://cutekinks.blogspot.com CuteKinks

    Whenever I see comments on articles dealing with interracial dating, the fact that Black women were raped by White men during slavery (and essentially beyond) is brought up by some as a reason why Black women should not want to date White men. I hardly ever see anyone bring up the fact that during this same time period (and essentially beyond) there were White women who cried “rape” by Black men resulting in the torture and murder of so many Black men.

    Not trying to be divisive, but we can’t constantly bring up one side of this sordid sexual history and ignore the other.

  • chike

    first i want to ask a question?
    Why is the whole white race in general always feel intimidated by black pips?
    as superior as they think themselves.They are always watching us. i live in Russia, where i suddenly overnight became a “celebrity”-always watched at the gym,metro, street,…everywhere; other blacks can corroborate this. Whenever a black is the best at a subject, it makes them really uncomfortable, whenever you look good, they will be looking for ways to make little of you-which never gets to me, cos, nobody’s insecurity has a right to make me insecure.

    Yeah, scandal is getting to be a scandal as it is.Let us first of all examine the way black american men see black women before going into how others percieve them: the likes of Kevin Hart, rap musicians and their videos, successful black men that marry women of other races-what does the above tell of?

    If anyone is going to think less of a black woman cos Olivia is screwing a married white man albeit being as good as she is, then the person has other reasons. come on people! white pips play the same role, and nobody goes around peddling this kinda idiocy-its high time we stopped letting the media define us. Whatever pips think of black pips is skin deep, most of the time it is not given a reason at all-they just like thinking that way.

    Angela Bassett who all her life has shown the best of black women; what have the haters learnt from her? nothing! this goes a long way to showing that pips are negative cos they want to be. Nobody is a saint, we shouldnt be stuck with roles were its “play a saint or never”. i think that is what they actually want-their way of keeping us under control.

  • C2

    So why praise and worship white men when they killed black men?

  • C2

    I hope Kerry wins some kind of award for “Scandal” If Halle can win one for being a rednecks slut; Monique for being a pathetic/sick pedo mother; and Spencer for being a manny that cooks doodoo pies – than damn it, KW needs one too! The coonery has to continue!

  • C2

    Have you guys noticed that everytime a Black Woman gets pregnant by a non-Black man all her Black female friends and family members say dumb stuff like : “You going to have a pretty Baby!”
    I have never heard a Black Women say the baby is going to pretty with 2 black parents.
    Big time self hate!

  • http://cutekinks.blogspot.com CuteKinks

    Lol… you completely missed the point. So I’ll ask a question in the same way you did:

    So why praise and worship white women when they caused so many Black men to be killed by falsely accusing them of rape?

    Do you see the point I’m trying to make? My comment was made to simply highlight how SOME of the men who will tell Black women they shouldn’t be in a relationship with White men because they raped us are some of the same men who “praise and worship” (using your words) White women when they too did some pretty awful things to Black men (falsely accusing them of rape). Be fair in the argument and acknowledge both sides of it. Yes, Black women were raped but also White women accused Black men of rape which had deadly consequences.

    Let me be clear. I am a supporter of interracial dating because I am a supporter of love, support, friendship and all the other good things that come from two people being in a healthy relationship with one another. So whether it’s Black men with White women, Black women with White men, Black men with Black women and White men with White women, it’s all good to me lol. Again, I just wanted to present a different side to this argument that is so often used.

    Take care. Be blessed.

  • C2

    I’m still confused! No one was saying don’t be with a white man. JUST DON’T BE HIS SLUT, WHORE, MISTRESS, SIDE PIECE, ONE NIGHT STAND, BLACK PIECE OF ASS TROPHY, GHETTO GAGGER.
    As far as the whole worship thing, I was just responding from personal experience. I think every Black Man can reflect on his childhood and remember little black girls stay stuff like “I’m a marry a white boy because my kids going to have good hair.” I grew up with 2 parents, but I remember my aunts saying stuff like N***** ain’t s***” “I’m going to get me a white man.”
    I have never heard a Black man say anything like that.
    Who’s been going on TV since the 70s throwing Black men under the bus and talking about exploring options?
    So you consider Pope’s relationship with the president something healthy. Like I said before, she looks like a slut.Enjoyed Kerry Washington in “Lake View Terrace” BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT PLAYING A SLUT. GET THE POINT!
    And it was entertaining unlike “Scandal” LOL!

  • C2

    Question: I’ve heard a bunch of “What’s race has to do with it questions.” If race has nothing to do with why did the black woman writer cast her with a white man. Why not focus the story around a black president (white writers have had black presidents in their shows before). OK I get it (our real president is black). But why not have an affair with a Black Mayor in a corrupt political town like Chicago. The story would have the same effect I think. Did she cast this white dude because shd knew Black Women would flock to their TVs every Thursday? Just wondering.

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    CuteKinks very good point I understand and like your approach it is refreshing, when we debate we should debate each other to gain “understanding” not to win arguments or to tear down each other or just to win a gender war because we let other put enmity between us, that being said let me be clear I am personally not in support of intentionally interracial dating or marriage [ones who look, seek out to date or marry other race because they think they are to good to be in a relationship with someone of there own race].

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    C2 they know who is vulnerable and who can be played!!!

  • http://cutekinks.blogspot.com CuteKinks

    Thank you. And I agree with you. I do NOT support interracial dating for the wrong reasons. White isn’t always right and that shouldn’t be someone’s ONLY reason to be with a White man/woman. I’ve met some great White men, but I’ve also met some that were complete jerks and the same goes for Black men. If one is dating someone because they truly enjoy who they are as a human being and they happen to be White, fine. But if they are dating someone, who happens to be White because of some personal hang-up, that isn’t cool.

  • What?

    This comment made me laugh.

  • What?

    Okay, after looking through alot of the comments it seems that alot of Black men feel attacked from reading this article. I HATE articles that generalize anyone. However this article said SOME Black men, not Black men as a generalized statement. I also don’t think that anyone is expecting you to actually watch the show.

    This article seems to be a commentary on why the author believes SOME Black men are attacking the show with such distaste. I’m so fed up with people using this “oh you’re just going back to being a slave hoe for the white man” excuse whenever they see anything that has to do with a Black woman dating a White man.

    Now again, I know ITS NOT ALL BLACK MEN. But for the ones who do (and its actually quite a few) they seriously need to just put a lid on it. That excuse is so old and its obviously just another way to try and guilt Black women out of dating white men. To the men who hold such negative and backward opinions about Black women dating or marrying interracially let me ask you this. DO YOU HOLD THE SAME BELIEFS ABOUT BLACK MEN DATING/MARRYING WHITE (or any other race) WOMEN? Something tells me that you don’t (or that you don’t believe its that bad).

    And yes I am a college educated Black woman married to a White man so that tired excuse about “oh but he wont marry you!!” is old, outdated, and based on a fear of not having a pool of women to run back to that SOME Black men believe nobody will want. The reason that most Black women don’t marry interracially as much as other women is because of these lame old beliefs about staying “loyal” instead of finding the right person with the right personality to fit them regardless of skin color.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “To the men who hold such negative and backward opinions about Black women dating or marrying interracially let me ask you this. DO YOU HOLD THE SAME BELIEFS ABOUT BLACK MEN DATING/MARRYING WHITE (or any other race) WOMEN? Something tells me that you don’t (or that you don’t believe its that bad).”

    Considering she isn’t dating or marrying the president, I think that should read “…opinions about black women effing old, married, rich white men…”

    But to answer your question — YES I DO HOLD THE SAME BELIEFS ABOUT BLACK MEN DATING/MARRYING WHITE (or any other race) WOMEN. I also hold the same views of other races of women (especially Asian) that disproportionately tend to prefer white men. I did not sympathize with Flipper in Jungle fever, and I think he is one of the biggest sell outs in movie history. I hate the fact that the vast majority of the time you see an Asian woman in a romantic situation on screen, she is with a white man. I don’t like Bollywood movies where the happy ending comes when the Indian protagonist rejects their archaic, old-fashioned culture to chase true happiness that can only come from being in love (read lust) with a white person.

    Contrary to popular belief, this isn’t about you, your choices, or any sense of misplaced loyalty. This is about white supremacy and white standards/norms. I don’t like the racial hierarchy that would have us unwittingly give bonus points for being white. I give the same side eye to black men that say they are looking to smash some Beckys that I did to my black friend that told me her theme for 2010 was to find her a white man.

  • G.

    The article clearly addressed your question.

  • http://Clutch SL

    I’ve been reading the comments and to be honest I’m confused, because if you look at the stats, black men marry women of different races at a greater rate than black women marry non-black men. As a matter of fact, not much marriage is even happening in the black community at all and most black women are single and quite frankly suffering trying to find a suitable mate within the community.

    I encourage black women to look beyond and not limit themselves. I am married to a non-AA, my sister and several of my cousins married outside the AA community, not because we don’t love ourselves or even love black men – but because we had a desire for love and marriage and to make a family. We had a desire to not become perpetually single and really we dated a lot of black guys who just played the field and weren’t serious. We were very open to our own men, it just so happened that the men willing to be serious, the men also wanting to build a longterm committed relationship were not AA men. I for one wasn’t willing to wait any longer for a black man to get it together. I wasn’t willing to shut myself off to be happy simply because I was too narrow to believe I could find happiness with some one who was perhaps not like me.

    I am college educated, have a successful career and took care of myself – what are all these single AA women suppose to do? Settle for being a baby’s mama? Settle for being one in a Black man’s harrem?

    No, they should excercise their options just like black men have chosen to do.

    This is not a put down of brothers. Many black women really would have liked to marry a brother, but for many reasons that does not look like it will happen for many black women. So, I think shows like Scandal show black women that there are other options for creating the life you want. Take Shonda Rhimes as an example, she could have laid down with some black man who was not willing to committ and had his baby and become a “baby’s moma”, but she didn’t do that – she wanted a family so she adopted 2 beautiful little girls. She sought another path to realizing the lige she wanted. A path few black single women would have made. So I think Shonda has written Scandal from that prespective….to say as black women that you DO have options for love TO BE LOVED. It may not be what you had in mind starting out but it is no less good. LOVE is GOOD.

    I love the layers of complexity of the relationship between Olivia and Fitz – really it is forbidden on so many levels: sleeping with your boss, inlove with a married man, the taboo of being in an interracial love affair. I think it is beautifully complexed and the whole show is challenging our ideas of what we hold as okay.

    I understand that some people will not be able to get with the show and I think Shonda understands that too, but truly it is life imitating art imitating life in the truest sense.

    Life throws us curve balls, life throws us the unexpected, life is messy. Ladies, As with anything you want, you owe it to yourself to explore your options.

  • C2

    Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. You made some good points.
    1. The said that more than 70 percent (the majority) have a problem with the show. And yes, we have reason!
    2. Simply put, she does look like a hoe!
    3. We’re not trying to shame Black Women into doing anything. But there are plenty of Black Women who date White Men not for love but for validation. For a lot of black women having a white man is like having a gold medal and dating a black man is like silver. Its the reason why Black women give white men less attitude in relationships. I’ve read countless articles by Black women that said “If you want to get a white man,drop the attitude.”
    4. Black women have been shaming us for YEARS with stuff like “You can’t handle a strong Black Woman, that’s why you got Becky” “Your mommas Black”
    5.I’m glad your married to a white man who loves you. But let’s keep it real, a lot of white men just want to fulfill their chocolate fantasy before they get married. During my college years I know white dudes that were always running up in black girls on campus. But years later you check their profile status … married/in a relationship to a white women. I have college educated friends with similiar stories. I remember walking to class one day behind three white boys ( they did not know I was behind them). The conversation went like this: Dude was complaining about not getting sex and one of them suggested black women because they’re easy (quick fix).
    “If you can’t screw one of these black B*****, then there is no hope for you.”

  • What?

    “Considering she isn’t dating or marrying the president, I think that should read “…opinions about black women effing old, married, rich white men…”

    I understand your comment and it is fair but alot of these comments here are attacking Black women dating interracially in general. I know that the woman in this show isn’t actually dating the guy but some of these posters act as if true love could never exist between a WM and BW and they are using this show as their own proof to say that BW dating interracially could never be legitimate love and it will always be a “slave and slave master” type of relationship.

    I understand that the media has a tendency to portray Asian women dating white men but honestly all the comments about this show “brainwashing” Black women is another thing that I find annoying. Women like watching dramas in general where there is some kind of conflict going on which is why alot of people find this to be very soap opera style.

    The fact that the main character is a BW makes this a show that alot of BW will watch. Just like if the main character in a show was an Asian female, alot of Asian women would more than likely watch it.

  • What?

    I’ve heard them say that the baby is going to be pretty with 2 Black parents. It’s usually when both the woman and the man take good care of themselves. I feel bad for you that you haven’t heard this. I think when you hear BW saying that someone is going to have a pretty baby when she is pregnant for a non-Black man, it’s more of a supportive comment of their relationship because we all know that dating/marrying interracially still has many negative social repercussions. I say it more as a supportive comment but that’s just me.

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    Bravo right on point, my sentiment as well as any other self respecting man, I don’t care whether he is black, white, red, brown or yellow they all feel the same as I and you women of color you are stupid, ignorant and a dam fool if you think the white man don’t feel the same way. That’s why the white man tell the white women “if you go black you can’t come back”, that’s why if you black women go white any successful self respecting black man can’t have you back we might hookup with you and treat you right but we can’t put our name on you. Just trying to educate you!

  • What?

    @trueletterson,

    ” “if you go black you can’t come back”, that’s why if you black women go white any successful self respecting black man can’t have you back we might hookup with you and treat you right but we can’t put our name on you. Just trying to educate you!”

    Thank you for admitting that alot of these negative comments come from feelings of possessiveness. Insecurity much?

  • C2

    Wow! I can’t believe the comments of these women and the support “Scandal” is getting. It’s obvious the Black Women is The Terminator of our community, sent and programmed by the White Man!

  • ASK_ME

    Will you please shut the phuck up?

    You have posted a series of comments under different names (yes, it’s obvious) in the last few days.

    NOBODY cares what you think! Move on with your life and stop worrying about others and what we watch/support. It’s none of your business.

    Have a good day.

  • ASK_ME

    @What?

    Not to mention they aren’t putting their names on black women who don’t go white….so what the fudge is he talking about??

    Threats don’t work with women. We tend to follow our hearts…not the egos of men.

  • ASK_ME

    @Ravi

    Why in the world is it anybody’s business who other people (mainly strangers) date/marry???

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    C2 you make a good point but why do you think most programs in the media TV movies etc. target the black women I will tell you why because she is the mentally weaker gender she is easy to subvert or pervert it’s easier to get to her mind, to over power her mentally [educated or not she is still a female ] so they know if they get her then she will help then get the weaker black man to submit to them now that being said we are the blame for most of her bitterness, angry, mistrust toward us because most of us fail for the same tricks that she fail for,we derelict our duty to god and our families thus leveling her unprotected, unsecured, venerable and prey [easy pickings] for her/our enemy now she revel in sleeping with him! I don’t care what the social engineers or feminist say it’s in a women natural to submit to a man she view as strong mentally, physically and financially, all he need is two out of the three and he got her!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    @Ask_Me

    It isn’t my business. I stay out of people’s dating and married life. What made you think I thought it was my business?

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    ASK_ME with all due respect you and most females just want get it and it’s might not be in your nature to get it, but believe me to us it’s not about equality, anybody’s business or who’s business it is, it’s in our nature to be territorial, possessive, dominate and master our domain etc. particular when it come down to females, it’s in our DNA, it’s the way god made us, it’s what we are and we have little choice in it, we are made mentally and physically different from you females that’s why we male and female were made to “complement” each other on this earth, if you meet any man that don’t have that in him run from him because he ain’t worth the salt in his body!

  • http://gravatar.com/karenmm2 karenmm2

    KIRSTEN WEST SAVALI…I am officially a fan. Amazing article.

  • C2

    Wow! Now I have to shut the phuck up! This is what you get with Black Women. When you start kicking knowledge, they have to resort to cussing and name calling. EMOTIONAL WITH NO LOGIC. This is why 80 percent of Black Women have kids unmarried. They went off their emotions for the thugs with swag. They get left and blame all black men. But there were plenty of good brothers they passed but they were considered “Lame.”
    Yes this “C” and “C2″.I used two names because I thought my first name was not posting for some reason. This is my first time on this blog and it has a funny way of posting comments. I’m sorry. You see that’s the difference between men and women, we can admit when we are wrong or made mistakes!

  • C2

    Great point trueletterson. As a Black man I can look at a TV show or movie and know when the producers are trying to mock Black Men or trying to make us look like fools. I’m not going to cheer just because I see a black man on the screen.

  • C2

    Well as a Black Man I can’t find a suitable mate because the. Black womwn I often meet are Baby Mommas (with kids from thugs or white dudes who did not want to go the distance).
    I was told by my parents to never bring another man’s junk to their home.
    And the ones without kids (20 percent) have a super big EGO and have a super long list of requirements for men. But these are the same women texting you a few months later with the “How is everything going,” messages. I guess all that gliters is not gold!

  • C2

    Posters keep asking why Slavery is always mentioned on this topic. Why not bring it up. Its the reason Black people are in America. Sadly it was our foundation and sadly we still have that slave mentality today.
    I won’t bring up the sex/rape/bed wench stuff again. But answer this for me (since its dumb to bring it up)-
    Why are the majority of Black Americans Christians??? Who taughtus that?
    Where did your last name come from? Did you get from some white man who slept with your great, great … I’ll shut up now.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    @What

    I get that a few comments have been general attacks, but far more have been attacking the way it is displayed in this particular show or the way certain individuals advocate finding a white man as a goal to aspire to. I find it troubling that many people seem to be using the show as proof that white men are better options or simply romanticizing/normalizing an adulterous affair.

    I agree that many women like watching dramas like this and that is part of the problem. They identify with the protagonist a little too strongly and start to diminish the horror of their misdeeds. They start to blame the wife and rationalize the fact that Olivia is a mistress of a no good dog, because their marriage was a sham anyway. I wonder how many of these same people saw it the same way in Waiting to Exhale.

    I understand exactly why people want to watch, but that doesn’t make invalid my criticisms of the show. I’m tired of the portrayals of black women as sexual playthings for white men, as is the norm on contemporary television and movies. They are portraying black women in situations where they are high school students having sex with white classmates in the school auditorium while unwittingly being videotaped, receptionists with barely any lines save post-coital adoration for the sexual prowess of the white man (twice her age, naturally) that just gave it to her on the receptionist desk, or aspiring singers willing to bed instantly bed half the shows male cast (including the middle-aged, white star and his daughter’s boyfriend).

    The irony in this is that I think most of the women that are supporting this show in all it’s glory would understand the criticism and not be so dismissive of it if Olivia Pope wasn’t black. I believe the criticism levied at Lena Dunham and “Girls” shows that many of the same women are more than willing to levy criticism at on screen representations that they find problematic. Just not when it involves a black woman having sex with a white man. In that case, no matter what the context, it’s “you get it girl”

    Also ironic that I keep hearing about the hypocrisy of black men that are criticizing the show (despite the fact that I’m highly critical of BM/WW representations as well), yet many (not all) will find every way possible to distinguish BW/WM as somehow being necessary or beneficial while black men with white women are the ones that are brainwashed by white beauty standards and chasing “Becky.” Hypocrisy = defending Olivia Pope and the validity of her romance while lamenting the black men chasing after “Becky”

  • http://Clutch SL

    Yep, we are definitely different, but it is in that difference where the attraction is if we can harness the language and how we talk to each other. You see when you hurl a barrage of insults at us it shuts us down in the same we we shut you down when we say insensitive a cruel things.

    I see you are angry C2 and it is obvious you’ve been hurt and that the hurt is still with you. I think you are very representative of where men and women are in the AA community. There has been such hurt to the point that there is automatic distrust and skepticism on both sides. Someone has to extend an olive branch to save us from total destruction.

    Yes, I married outside the community and for that I do not apologize. Yes, I had 2 engagements to AA men that did not work out. I was crushed, but I was determined not to spend the rest of my life alone longing for love and a family. So out of necessity for my own personal survival I said yes to a man who pursued me, wooed me and asked me to trust him who I believed that one day I could grow to love.

    Listen, my daddy is a black man and was married to my mom 35yrs before he passed. My grandfather was a black man married to my grandmother for more than 60yrs when he passed. My bothers are black men, my nephew, my uncles are all black men. They are beautiful, handsome, strong, smart black men. I love them and I had hoped to marry someone just like them.

    But for time and circumstances – maybe I would have, but providence didn’t have it that way and it takes nothing away from my husband or my marriage. And here’s the thing, it takes nothing away from any BLACK MAN.

  • http://Clutch SL

    So we have to try and grow and banish the demons that make us scour when we see interracial couples – both of us BM and BW. We have to stop dis honoring one another, no matter what our personal choices are. We have to stop putting down each other. Black men have taken a lot of advantage of black women – bedding them, leaving them with children and then making those women feel less than by marrying someone else. Black women have to stop putting black men down too – making them feel they aren’t good enough. We have to stop having children outside of marriage because most of these issues result from being raised by a single mom. Little black boys get the message that it is okay to disrespect women cause their daddies disrespected their mom. Not having a dad in your home increases the chances that you will not respect the institution of marriage. Girls learn early and expect Black men to abandon them cause that is what has happened already in their lives. So what you perceive as EGO is not – it a protective barrier that says yeah, I know what to expect from you cause someone who looks like you already did that to me…so all you’ll get from me is a lot of LIP and ATTITUDE .

    Really, we have to start healing the discourse. We’ve got to change the track.

    There are few people (both men and women) who don’t find beauty within their own race – everything else is smokescreen – when you tear away the layers of hurt, it is there.

    So, what I am saying is I love you as a black man…but I still love Scandal too. The two don’t have to be mutually exclusive you know :-).

  • ro

    White men have always represented the ultimate validation to black women. A below average looking white guy can have sex with the most attractive black woman. It is very easy for a white man to get a sister in bed. His whiteness will compensate for ALL of his shortcomings. I’ve seen stunning looking sisters who look like supermodels walking down the streets of New York City with very unattractive white men old enough to be their fathers or grandfathers. Sad.

  • http://Clutch SL

    This is sooooo funny, cause this is EXACTLY what black women have said about BM who date and marry white women – that black men can only get the white women white men reject. Lol, so crazy!!!!!! Oh well, we have to stop insulting each other.

  • ro

    If 97% of white men are choosing white wives do you really believe that black women are getting the highest quality white men? I know black women don’t want to hear this but the only white men marrying black women are those with racist sexual fetishes and other psychological issues.

  • evan

    Both are right. Neither black men nor black women are getting the highest quality white spouses. They tend to mate with each other. Sorry.

  • Ask_Me

    Some of you are plain old delusional. I’m a black woman married to a white man and he is nobody’s reject. He is a good-looking, slim, well-dressed dark-haired attorney. I have seen the way women of all races look at him…he is a great catch and I’m proud to have him by my side. Not because he is white, but because he is an awesome man.

    Please more along insecure individual. Who people date/marry is nobody’s business.

  • Ask_Me

    Ummm…whatever. I don’t belong to you or any other man outside of my husband (who happens to be white). I am not your “domain.” Never have been…never will be. You don’t have a right to be possessive over me or any other black woman outside of your family. Who we date/marry/have sex with is NONE of your business. The sooner you accept that the better off you will be.

  • http://Clutch SL

    “Quality”. “Best”. You guys sound like Nazis.

  • http://Clutch SL

    No, I wasn’t hardly played, so be careful how you interpret what was written. I have 2 diamond rings to prove that.

  • cree

    I don’t believe black women will ever stop worshppng white men. This mentality developed on the slave plantation and remains as strong as ever. I see black women throwing themselves at caucasions who are hideous looking thinking they have a great catch.

  • Ask_Me

    @SMH

    Oh look…it’s the angry kneegrow that LOVES to follow me on this blog. You need you to get a life QUICK!

    You are one angry lonely pathetic soul. Most of the time I ignore you because I feel sorry for you, but you are pathetic… plain and simple.

    Even the black women who only desire black men proclaim you unwanted on this site.

    That ish must me hard.

    Unattractive, undesirable, miserable, lonely, stalkerish, obsessed with people you don’t know and lamenting false information about said people.

    You, like all the other delusional black men on this particular page of this post, HATE the thought of black women in the arms of white men. IT burns you deeply. Your angry so-called “white worshiping” “rejected” comments speak volumes. They are a smokescreen of insecurity.

    Find yourself a woman and get some happiness in your life. ASAP!

  • Ask_Me

    @SL

    The black version of the KKK lurks on this blog. Any mention of white men as related to black women makes their blood boil.

    To all the naysayers: What was all that talk about black men not caring???

  • C2

    Here we go again with the shaming tactics like: “You must be hurt” The woman wrote the article and black men responded and I’m glad. For the past 40 years Black Women have made us look pathetic in the media. They started this gender war crap. But when we express our opinion and thoughts (the other side of the coin) they want to call us crazy. How long do you expect to keep striking a tiger before it tears you to pieces. Its sort of like how we get labled the “Angry Black Man” by white people when we speak up about police brutality or other serious topics.
    The writer had the nerve to shame us with negative rap (I listen to rappers like Lupe Fiasco) . Who’s buying these records? Who on the front row at a concert throwing their panties on stage to these thug rappers. I’ve seen women in black sororoties do this! The so called cream of the crop on campus!
    You go to the club and a song with the word “Bitch” said 50 times, but you see college educated women shaking their asses!
    With “Scandal” we just don’t want you to look like fools on TV. I don’t know how many ways I can say it. White people are slick about doing this.
    Example: I think Ole Miss or Alabama (forgot which college) had their first black homecoming queen last fall. Why did it have to be a fat chick. Out of all the beautiful Black Students on that campus, why did they have to pick someone overweight! They wanted to make a joke out of Black People. Its all about superior!
    Yeah I know, its a black female writer, but there were some black actors who had not problem performing in Black face back in the day!
    As far as interacial dating, I said all I had to say in previous post. Date and marry who you want to date. If Adolph Hitler makes you happy than that’s great! Just don’t open your mouth about Black men!

  • C2

    Its so easy for white men “Even a cave man can do it!”

  • rich

    The article does not apply to me and more brothas than the author seems to think. First let me say this I could careless about a sistah or brother dating interracial. It is all about the hypocrisy in the community when it comes to deciding what is a negative image or not because in this instance someone likes the show or it can meet some fantasy or whatever reason..etc. For the record I date and will only marry a black woman…for me there is no other woman on the planet for me…ie A sista who dates interracially is simply not a sistah for me…(I want a sistah who holds same feelings about black men)

    Lets get to bands to make her dance… it really hits home… she views that as a negative song and image attached as do I. Yet in the same breathe does not find it to be a negative image of a sistah no matter how much they try and cover it with “love” is simply a jumpoff/side chick… Which is her right to do so but she erroneously make it into an ego thing… And no brothers dont go to change.org to start petitions.. but sistahs do… Why get upset at Shawty Lo’s tv show and start a petition to get it axed. Life is complicated and men and women end up with multiple parents for their children. My point is not an attack on sistahs as in my opinion the author has taken men’s negative views. I have an issue with bands to make her dance I have a goddaughter and nieces I hope never become a bands to make her dance or jumpoff chick or tolerate such foolishness. These rappers are modern day step and fetch it.

    I will say to sistahs/brothas whomever that do not find issue with this particular negative image you need not speak out against bands to make her dance the song or accompanying video; lyrics such as bitches aint ish but hoes and tricks.

    (If it was a black male President and a white woman if sistahs were upset I assume the author would assert it would be for the same reasons she asserts in the article. Yet she would still be very flawed)

    We need to be diligent on controlling our image and how we are portrayed and if it is a negative portray come down on it…..

    Essentially all of it is an example of how screwed up the community really is. Male and female.

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    Watch it now AS_ME be carful you might be talking about your baby [son], because if you are a black women your black son will trump your white husband remember now we men black or white tin not to hang around simple because we have more options and no sane women will like that, again be carful what you say because it might come back on you. Don’t forget your son most likely will be like us after the white males finish with him and ain’t nothing you or your white husband can do about it!

  • http://www.facebook.com/foster.garvin Foster C. Garvin

    It’s a shame that this divisive, factually-impossible-to-accurately-research OPINION piece (the author’s opinion, people), has created as much negative attention and animus between the men and women responding to it as it has. The views expressed therein really didn’t warrant all the hoopla.

  • Ask_Me

    @trueletterson

    I’m going to see to it that NONE of my children are like you bitter disillusioned losers. Anyone with a sense of self-worth and self-esteem would not let the dating/matting choices of others hurt them.

  • C2

    Did you guys know that a black woman made artwork about the civil war and slavery. For some reason she had to draw a black woman giving a white man some head! WTF x 100!!!

    http://www.inquisitr.com/489763/library-to-keep-controversial-painting-depicting-oral-sex-klu-klux-klan-slavery/

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    Wow C2 you got to stop this bro we can’t shame or embarrass this out of some black women all you are going to do by posting this is give some of these mis educated sister a ideal and make them go out and find them a white dude and pay him to let them perform on him so they can prove there independence and think it will empower them and at the very least just to piss a brother off! We must learn and understand how our black women mind work and stop giving them bad ideals that will cause them to do things that will hurt themselves just to prove their independence and empowerment and at the same time with intent to piss the black man off and later on they will be sorry, whether we like it or not we black men must be the one to save black women and restore her to their rightful place of honor.

  • Ola

    So not true you can’t help who you fall in love with. We don’t all go out saying I am dating a white guy therefore every woman who dates a black man is inferior to me as that is just plain idiotic. I don’t care who my friends and family as long as the person loves them and they love them back.

  • bryan

    what the hell you talking about african american she 100 percent black stop running from your self

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  • Wong Chia Chi

    I haven’t watched Scandal yet and I’m a female because political drama’s don’t interest me, I had trouble getting into Game of Thrones also because of this, but it’s sci fi/fantasy so I’m into that element. I also watch very little television, I stream shows on the internet but when I do it’s usually sci fi or comedy.

    I get the sentiment that the author is conveying. I don’t think that she means all black men when she means a small subset of black men.

    But my problem with these type of shows is that the “Powerful Man Fantasy” is…stupid. Period. Most romances are about forgetting logic and just going with what you feel but this is too much. Most powerful men are just narcissistic assholes when you scratch the surface and they don’t obtain power or for that matter keep it, by honest means. So….I don’t understand what is supposed to be alluring about power in and of itself? Is it the lifestyle and status it provides? I suppose. But I need more substance and emotional depth from a relationship than a “lifestyle”.

    The more powerful a person is, the more dangerous they become. Most of the powerful people I’ve known are manipulative, scheming, and most importantly SELFISH. A powerful man I once knew told me that ” Cream rises to the top, but so does shit, and I can be both depending on what the situation calls for.”

    They can be very charismatic, charming, and fun to interact with on a superficial level, but they can also have HUGE egos, very little accountability and emotional maturity Their position sort of necessitates that they are able to distance themselves from other people. Some people can compartmentalize every well but most of the time bonds are created by shared experiences. How would you ever really felt like you knew or understood someone like that since you likely have never had the power and responsibility they have. Interacting with them in a career field is sooo not the same thing as dating them.

    My idea of a healthy relationship isn’t dealing intimately with someone like that on a regular basis, it would be too tiring for me, and not my idea of love or romance for that matter.

    Women who swoon over Presidents and generals are just as illogical, to me, as women who swoon over Mafia strongmen and dopeboys. Both types of men are men who are associated with death by either being directly or indirectly being responsible for causing it. It’s not something to glorify. Politics, like drug dealing, is a dirty business.

  • C2

    Enjoyed your opinion about the show. I don’t like the show (and yes I watched a few episodes before I judged it). There’s nothing about it that grabs my attention. I talked to non-black women about the show and they don’t understand what the big deal is or they say “it’s just something to watch.” They don’t treat it like the best thing since sliced bread.

  • C2

    I know man. I’m going to stop. But I just love being right and having facts and logic (not emotion) to back it up. LOL! ONE MORE – Do you guys remember that super bowl performance with Janet Jackson and Justin Timberfake? Why is that this black woman would allow a white man to sexually expose her on live TV, during one of the biggest sport events in the world?
    Why did Timberfake feel so comfortable doing it? Was it his idea or Janet’s?
    If it was her idea, it just shows how [insert what Black men have been saying about "Scandal" here]
    If it was his idea, It shows how white boys really feel about black women.

  • http://gravatar.com/chas0x01 chas0x01

    black women promoting the white man… black women promoting white supremacy… i’ll give it another year or two before we start seeing black women joining the klan. jezebel is certainly on a roll!

  • C2

    They don’t need to join the Klan. They do the work for them.
    In the past 40 years Black Women have done more to destroy the image of the Black Man, the Black family structure and our community. And the Klan has been around since the 1800s!

  • http://www.facebook.com/kevinmoliver Kevin M. Oliver

    Give me a break…

  • http://www.facebook.com/katwhite07 Katrina White

    This is a good article. It addresses something that I have been confused about my entire adult life. As a very dark skinned woman I grew up being ignored in my mostly black high school (by black boys). When I graduated and went into the military I was never without a date…but I was still ignored by black men. So now I have exclusively dated/married white men…not out of spite but because they are the ones who have pursued/noticed/were interested in me…But I have been met with a bit of hate from black men (only…most everyone else ignores us [my husband and kids]). I go between being angry (because they never wanted me) and confusion about the subject. This article explains it as best as any other I have seen.

  • C2

    The same thing can be said for dark skinned men. I’m in between (skin tone), but I grew up with dark skin male friends and Black girls (of all shades) called them ugly and BLACK. The first thing that came out their mouths when they got mad is something about them being dark. The black girls were always the run running around talking about having “good hair.”

  • talaktochoba

    this is nothing but Thomas Jefferson–Sally Hemmings redux, because she has exactly ZILCH, ZERO, NADA, ZIPPO power outside her massa Washington’s shadow;

    you think any heads of state, titans of industry or captains of CIA, FBI of Joint Chiefs of Staff would ask the time of day from her–let me see, do they of Massa Bush’s Sally, aka Condoleeza Rice?

    this is just the latest example of the frat boy preppy fantasy white males have had since puberty–a brown skinned, white hairstyled, white makeup’ed, white dressed, prim and proper Vassar-acting white-mannered wannabe Barbie who lives with the deep down knowledge she will be replaced by the first blue-eyed big-breasted blonde ditz who comes along, quicker than Marilyn could sing “Happy Birthday” to Jack Kennedy;

    isn’t that what the First Lady was, before her shelf life ran out?

    that doesn’t excuse abuse, neglect and Becky-worship, but let’s be real here–how long would Bessie REALLY last in Beckyville?

    um, Condoleeza…?

    instead of Scandal, they really should call it “Pinky”;

  • Joe Blow

    I found the article to be rather poorly written, as it was emotionally driven. I saw a few minutes of the show, and found it to be rather run of the mill. Not bad at all, just not good. The only reason black women like this show, and let’s be honest ladies, is because a black woman was shown as ‘beautiful’ to white audiences and a ‘powerful’ white man (the President) once had her on the side. Cool.

    You can’t expect MEN in general (poll white, asian, hispanice, etc. guys and I’m sure you’ll get the same rolling eyes) interested, as this show is about ‘women’ and unless the woman is stone fine AND there are explosions and fast cars, you’re not likely to get many ga-ga over a ‘chick show’. Add to that there are NO major black male figures for black men to identify with and you get a ‘Why the fuss?’ attitude from brothers. I don’t know one black guy that feels ‘emascuated’ by this. In the ‘real’ world, black men have 2.5-3 times as many options to marry interracially than black women. This is neither ‘good’ nor ‘bad’…it just ‘is’. No ‘emasculation’ here. But the writer showed that she had (and still has) feelings of inadequacy and needs ‘white men’ to be interested in her. PEOPLE need to stop finding their own value/worth in what ‘others’ think of them. That’s a hard call, not gonna lie. But pretending to take pleasure at imaginary ‘haters” alleged ‘anger’ won’t help someone feel better.

  • C2

    Yep, I agree 100 percent! It’s Black Women on Facebook saying “Scandal” is harder than “The Wire,” and is the best show ever! WTF! LOL! THE SHOW IS MEDIOCRE. If Washington was not getting bent over by the white dude -NO BLACK WOMAN WOULD WATCH IT! The few dudes who love the show are SIMPS (someone idolizing mediocre *****), sucking up or suspect!

  • Jane

    You Americans sure have serious issues….white man, black woman….who cares?? I live in West Africa and we all enjoy Scandal here ’cause it has exciting, suspense filled plots, has good looking characters with great chemistry, some Washington power politics and glamour thrown in. Get over your silly race issues and just enjoy a good show….

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    While West Africans are bleaching their skin to appear less black, I’m thinking your silly race issues are just as big as ours, if not worse.

  • C2

    Great point about the bleaching. They are worst than American Blacks! They have a continent, but they let whites, Arabs and Asians come in and steal all the natural resources from them!!! Africa should be ruling the world right now! Black Americans should be flocking to Africa!!! But no, You guys let others punk you. Look at South Africa-How can a small handfull of white people rule MILLIONS of Blacks???? An African should be the last person to criticize an American Black (A place where we are actually outnumbered by whites!!!)

  • http://gravatar.com/frazzledchick Sydney Chandler

    Where exactly do you live in the world? That myth that Black men have 2 – 3 times more opportunities to marry inter-racially than Black women is your indoctrination in the US that Black women aren’t wanted and desired. I was born in Germany to a White father and Black mother. They’ve been married for over 40 years. In Europe, Black women are mostly seen with and married to White men and guess what, they’re usually educated and have great careers. I’ve found that American Black women aren’t particularly attracted to men of other races because they prefer Black men. And it is also not true that other races aren’t attracted to Black women because they are. However, Black women will in many instances, tell them that they’re not interested. So if you want to continue to degrade Black women, then at least do your research and step outside of your narrow scope of the world. Because regurgitating decades of indoctrinated propaganda just makes you look ignorant.

  • islandlass

    Some of these comments are hilarious. You date whom ever shares your interest. I love running, snorkeling & sailing and found the right person who also enjoyed those things. A good ole country boy from SC. You like who you like period. Enjoy.
    Oh, btw…didn’t President Palmer on the show 24 have a white side piece while married to his black wife? I don’t recall any outrage about that.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    No, President Palmer never cheated. But his black wife did try to set him up by having a black woman seduce him. He figured out her scheme and fired the woman then divorced his wife at the end of the season. His brother Wayne did have an affair with a married black woman in season 3 I believe.

  • islandlass

    Dr. Anne Packard (played by Wendy Crewson) was the love interest of President David Palmer during Day 3. She was white.

    http://24.wikia.com/wiki/Anne_Packard

  • C2

    This is why I do not want girls when I have kids. I can tell them they are beautiful everyday and teach them Black pride and self respect. But society is going to combat my teachings by calling their natural hair “ugly and nappy” and telling them that “it’s better to be a white man’s whore than a black man’s queen.”
    I saw this in high school with black girls (from 2 parent homes). They would use a black dude for proms and dates and their dads would meet them. But they never met the white boys smashing their daughters !!!! They never gave it up to the black dudes and if they did, a million dates and gifts had to happen first!
    And if I have boys that are hard working, smart and successful in life – I have to worry about them being the 2nd choice to some black thug or some white dude (successful just like my sons -BUT HE GETS A PASS FOR BEING WHITE)

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Love interest, not “white side piece while married to his black wife.” LOL. She was his white girlfriend. Unlike Fitz, he divorced his wife a couple seasons prior to getting with his girlfriend. As I stated above, he divorced her at the end of season 1, before he even became president.

    I know she was white, I watched every season of 24. Fact remains, you were wrong about him cheating on his black wife with a white side piece. So if he isn’t cheating, why would their be any outrage?

    If any black man actually cheated on his black wife with a white woman on screen, I doubt that the cheater would get this much support. and if the white woman were made to be the protagonist while the black wife was made out to be the bad guy, then there would be plenty of outrage.

    Can you think of any other situations on television where the roles are reversed? I can’t, but if I could, I would be just as annoyed as I am by Scandal.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    http://24.wikia.com/wiki/Sherry_Palmer

    At the end of the day, David had enough, and informed Sherry that he intended to file for divorce.

    After Day 1

    David Palmer filed for divorce from Sherry prior to being sworn in as President of the United States

  • http://gravatar.com/frazzledchick Sydney Chandler

    Well I guess my mom didn’t get the memo because my mom and dad met while in college in London. They dated and married…celebrated 49 years happily married. All three of us (two older brothers) are well educated, successful and happily married. My dad was the best dad and husband anyone could ask for. Just so you know, my dad pursued my mom, not the other way around. They also married during a time when interracial marriage was frowned upon in the States. My mom or dad never told us that either race is better or worse just different. We were always taught to treat people…all people with dignity and respect. So don’t lump all races into one pile nor make it seem as though Black women are incredibly stupid and self-loathing. My mom is a proud Black, intelligent, well educated Black woman and those are the qualities my dad loves in her. One day, you may hope to have daughters because we’re the ones that will come to your aid faster.

  • C2

    Awwww…That’s a great story and I’m happy for your parents. I don’t know your parents, so I’m going to comment on THEIR relationship.
    But like I said before, a lot of white men seek beautiful Black women because it’s a lot easier than getting a beautiful white woman. On my previous post, I was speaking from observations in my life.
    And since you’re mixed (not fully Black) I probably offended you by talking about white people and what’s obvious to Black Men. So you had to stick up for white men.
    My dad is Black and has been happily married to my Black mother for 37 years. So that’s why I stick up for Black Men and call BS when I see it.
    No offense, but mixed people don’t have the same experiences and thoughts as Black people. If white people allowed mixed people to be in the white category, they would not claim to be Black.
    No one is lumping all races into one category. I’m not saying every white person on earth is the devil.
    But let’s be honest, a lot (NOT ALL) of Black women are “Self-Loathing”. That’s why they wear weave and perm their hair to look at white women. Who are they trying to impress?Is it white men?
    If Black men did the same thing, we’ll get clowned.
    Like I said before on this post, a lot of Black women have the Negro Bed Wench Fantasy and white men know this! They know it’s “Easy Booty”
    That’s why this show is #1 with Black Women.

  • http://gravatar.com/frazzledchick Sydney Chandler

    No offense, you absolutely meant to be offensive. Because I’m biracial somehow I don’t have the same experiences. Really? I have ignorant Black people like you telling me that I don’t count because I’m not 100% pure Black and White people telling me that I need to be more like them. But thank God I have the parents I do because they taught us well. No you don’t know my parents and my mom was not a self-loathing Black woman and I’m proud as Hell of her and my dad. You obviously have major issues and it’s not just Black/White, it’s that you seem to loathe and despise anyone that you deem beneath you particularly Black women because they have the wherewithal to live their own lives without asking permission to do so. And obviously you haven’t looked up statistics and spoken with every Black woman around the Globe. You sound just as disparaging as the White men you’re ranting about. My mom, nor myself have ever been “easy to get”. Also American Black men date outside their race far more than Black women because most Black women want Black men. Oh but that’s just a little statistic you failed to mention in your damning and cursing the evil White people and the weak, self-hating Black women. Good luck to you with that attitude because any woman would be insane to become involved with you.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “fully black”? who is fully anything these days. So are you suggesting that Frederick Douglas would have claimed he was white if white folks allowed? What about Obama?

    Being black and being mixed is not mutually exclusive. I have quite a few ancestors of different racial backgrounds but that doesn’t make me any less black than anyone that has none.

  • C2

    I guessed I touched a nerve. LoL! I’M just speaking the truth. And who cares about the stats. I’m going off my own personal experiences. If I go to McDonalds and the food is nasty, then the food is going to be nasty at other locations as well.
    And no, you don’t have the same experiences I have as a BLACK MAN in a country set up for me to fail!
    Stop playing games, we all know light skin people get treated better white people and sadly Black people too. Just look at TV and movies. They got a mixed chick playing Harriet Tubman!!
    OK…Be proud of your family! No one is telling you not too. LOL! I’m proud of my Black parents too!!!
    I’m not loathing about anything. But everytime a Black woman talks about her background, she brings up having Native American, French, Italian, Mexian, Dutch Greek and Martian in her blood.
    I probably have some type of other race in my blood from 100 or more years ago, but when people ask me what I am I’m proud to say Black.
    There’s nothing wrong with being mixed.
    But when mix blue and green, you’re going to get something different. It is what it is. BUT ITS NO LONGER just BLUE or GREEN!
    And I’m not racist, but I’m always going to think Black first. What’s wrong with doing that. Other races of people think about themselves first.That’s why our community is in the dumps right now! We followed the teachings of MLK 95 percent and followed Malcolm X only 5 percent. If it was at least 50/50 we would be better off.
    And hopefully Ill marry a woman with her head on straight and understand how the world really works instead of this “Kumbaya” or “Melting Pot” stuff. Yeah we’re all the same … but in elementary school the white teachers would believe the white kids over the black ones all the time during a conflict! Get older and some white person less qualified get promoted first. Yeah … color does not exist.

    AND a lot of mixed people did try to pass for white. Example: Alex Haley’s ancestor “Queen”
    Some of them even owned slaves!

  • islandlass

    I stand corrected and your points are valid. I guess for me I get it and I understand both the push and pull of the controversy. But is negativity surrounding the show a case of “us” bw &bm still not seeing a better presentation of us in media or the case of bm vs wm; who have been life long enemies?
    PS I love a good debate and a debater who brings on the facts. Your good, you should get podium :-)

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I’m just a big 24 fan :) Not sure if that warrants getting a podium. I used to follow the show like it was my religion. And I was none to happy about Palmer getting a white girlfriend in the third season even though it didn’t involve anything improper. Felt it was part of a growing trend to pair black characters with white romantic interests in order to maintain mainstream appeal. Turns out I was right about the trend as it is now the norm on tv.

    I’m not sure what you mean about “bw&bm still not seeing a better presentation of us in media or the case of bm vs wm”

    Please elaborate.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “No offense, but mixed people don’t have the same experiences and thoughts as Black people. If white people allowed mixed people to be in the white category, they would not claim to be Black.”

    “I probably have some type of other race in my blood from 100 or more years ago”

    So either you are also mixed and that first assertion applies to you, or maybe there is some sort of statute of limitations on being mixed. Are you only mixed for the first 99 years but anything after that you are just black? All of my great grand parents were mixed, but I’m darker than a brown paper bag; do I get to be black? Does that mean Creole people aren’t mixed any more because most of their mixing came a couple centuries ago? If Sydney Chandler has brown skinned grand kids from unions with other mixed people, will they be mixed or black? Would they have to have one white parent to be mixed, or are the children of mixed people also mixed? Something about your theory isn’t adding up.

  • islandlass

    :-). I mean in general with regards to positive images of BW/BM in media. There are very few positive images of a black woman or man on tv period. And that coupled with the fact that, as far as a loving black women and black men in a relationship on tv, it is practically no existent. So, I have to wonder if that’s the primary reason why some are so offended by the illicit relationship portrayed on the show? Pretty, smart, progressive BW sneaking around with a married WM? Why didn’t she marry the black senator? was that insulting to us? to our image?
    As far as the BM vs. WM; I am referring to the perceive notion that BM & WM have been mortal enemies since the dawn of the day :-). So I again wonder if, some are offended by the relationship because it is an insult to black manhood, to watch this essentially ‘good black woman’ settling for such a mediocre status as white man’s jump off?

    I love differing POVs and hearing other’s thoughts/opinions. So, thank you so much for engaging me, thus far in a very healthy & lively exchange :-).

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I love differing POVs also so I’m happy to oblige :)

    I think the lack of positive black couples on tv is definitely part of the problem. If there were more positive representations of black love on television, then this representation would be somewhat less of an issue. I don’t think this is the major issue though. If it were, then all of the many, many other representations of interracial “romance” would get similar levels of vitriol. They don’t.

    I believe the larger issue, at least for me, is the specifics of the way this interracial “romance” is portrayed. A powerful, white, rich, older man in a sexual, extramarital situation with a younger, attractive, successful black woman. The way she is portrayed as a jump off, yet her pairing is viewed by many to be a positive or desirable situation, only compounds it.

    It seems that this is in line with trend of increasingly sexualized representations of black women and white men found on screen. I find this trend to be problematic on many levels. It seems to reinforce the already hypersexualized view of black women, while also normalizing such sexual interactions in a way that would tend to impact standards over time. It seems the world already has a definitive preference for white mates and this is a part of the propaganda to get buy in from seemingly the last demographic group holding out. I see it as a tool to gain support for assimilation into a society that essentializes whiteness.

    As to the black men and white men being mortal enemies, I can see how that would cause some people to be angry. Again, this show receives more vitriol than a lot of the other BW/WM pairings, so I think there are some other things going on that make it more offensive. I think the use of a white president with a younger black sex partner evokes imagery of Thomas Jefferson. Dialogue in the show even suggested as much, making me think that the allusion was intentional. Anything that draws allusions to slave rape will necessarily be more offensive. I think a larger piece of the mortal enemies concept was the historical context of white male oppression of black women specifically and it’s focus on exploitation, ownership, and rape. For this to be the guy she goes stupid over while they write her character as rejecting the much better, less-vile black love interest, certainly adds fuel to the fire.

    I think my problem is as much with the reaction to the show as the representation itself. It seems that a great many of my black women friends are very much cheering on Olivia in her messed up romantic life. Some friends will write on FB how messed up the whole situation is, but the majority are cheering her on. It just speaks volumes to me that so many are not seeing the infidelity as even remotely problematic.

  • C2

    ????????? What is your point????????? When did this turn into an episode of Batman with the Riddler? LOL!
    MIXED PEOPLE ARE NOT BLACK! It does not matter how many “what ifs” you add to the equation! PERIOD POINT BLANK!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    No riddles, just huge gaping holes in your theory of race. You can conceptualize race however you like, but there is a reason the vast majority of the world considers many mixed people (not all mixed people) black — because there is no reasonable standard of how much mixing constitutes being “fully” black. You just admitted you were mixed and claimed you were black. This should let you know how inconsistent your theory is.

    But I know the cognitive dissonance can be a headache. Continue on in delusion.

  • islandlass

    Man….f a Steve Harvey… you need your own show.
    I have to agree with most of your points; But i have to take it a step further. While I completely co-sign that you like who you like, I find it annoying when I talk to other blk women who watch the show and say, I wish I could find a man like Fitz? I am truly baffled by this, not because he is white; but because he is somehow seen as better, stronger, more loving, etc. When trying to shut that notion down, I am quickly rebuffed because, that’s easy for me to say, because I am already living it. Wow?
    So on some level it saddens me because some how, now in 2013, some blk women are really equating white as right. Don’t get me wrong, I support dating, marrying ‘other’ if it happens for you.
    That is some heavy psychological stuff if we some how condition ourselves white wash our own lives on purpose. Scary.
    I fully understand your stance with regards to the sexualized rep that BW have received over the years too; and today especially so. But I have to say that, sadly I see that we-BW are contributing to it more than ever. Go on Twitter and read some of the vulgar tweets that BW are sending to Tony Goldwyn aka Fitz. It’s embarrassing. And they way they dogged the BM, Olivia was engaged to was equally shocking.
    For me if you fall for xyz person that is your business; I wish you every happiness; but what I don’t get is this notion that some how having half a man (married, white or otherwise) is better than having no man/black man who is equally as successful as yourself. That is troubling, for me.
    I watch the show, because I love intrigue; especially if it is political. As a married blk woman the relationship didn’t bother me as much as I thought it would; only because in my rational mind I knew that, hey it’s just tv. I’ve been around enough WM to know that in reality they ain’t messing with their money like that, no matter what. :-). But at the same time, I shake my head because this show is mind f’king a lot of black women into thinking, that the CEO down the hall is hot for them.
    He’s not; ok I don’t know that for sure :-). But I do know that we have to be concerned about our image in media; because whether we like it or not or accept it or not, perception is some else’s reality. sadly.

    I hope that I wasn’t rambling. Best to you.

  • C2

    I never said I was mixed! Both my parents are Black as well as my grandparents and great grandparents. LOL! Maybe someone white or native american slept with one of my ancestors hundreds and hundreds and hundreds years ago! I don’t know.
    You really don’t need theory and big words to understand that 1 (black parent)+1 (white parent)=2 (mixed).
    Even the special kid that rides the little short bus to school knows that 1+1=2.
    So if a mixed dude has sex with a white girl and there son comes out with blue eyes and blond hair, is that child still black? And if this same mixed dude’s son has sex with a white woman and has a grandchild with pale white skin, blue eyes and blond hair, is he still considered black?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “I probably have some type of other race in my blood from 100 or more years ago”

    That means you are mixed based on your own arithmetic. (it’s really a lot more complex than you seem to understand, but let’s pretend for a moment that you are correct) You are claiming that 100 or more years ago, you might have some white ancestry. For arguments sake let’s say your great great great grandmother was raped by her master and created your great great grandfather. Seems pretty reasonable considering many estimates have the average black american consisting of 20% European ancestry. So your great great grandfather would be mixed and would not be black (based on your definition). He meets your great great grandmother and has your great grandmother. your great grandmother will have one black parent and one non-black parent. I guess she wouldn’t be black. So your great grandmother meets your black great grandfather and has a kid. that’s one black parent and one non-black parent, so their kid is mixed. A couple more iterations we end up with you — guess what that makes you — mixed. Throw in a few more slave rapings and you have present day black Americans.

    To further illustrate my point — is Frederick Douglass black? He’s certainly mixed, but are you really arguing that he can’t be considered black because he was mixed. He wasn’t light skinned, He went through a hell of a lot more as a slave than either of us have endured. If you consider him black, then you have no argument.

    To answer your questions from before, black people can produce children with blue eyes. It’s not the norm but it can definitely happen. Think about who the first people on earth were. Black people were the original people. If black people couldn’t have kids with blond hair and blue eyes, then how did we ever get any blond haired and blue eyed people? All white people descended from black people.

    keep in mind, I’m not the one that claims he can tell when people are black or not. I don’t have an equation that let’s me know where the line is between black and not black. I’m just saying that being black is not mutually exclusive to being mixed. I’m mixed and I’m black. Neither of my parents are white nor are any of my grandparents. Great grandparents either — they were all mixed, just like me.

    But I digress. Keep the delusion alive. Try to avoid books or research so your views won’t be challenged. We can agree to disagree, so your cognitive dissonance can stop. I have to get back to writing my paper on Ethiopian Jews in Israel. I wonder if they are black. They are pretty mixed. Let me ask a kid on a short bus. lol

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    LOL, I can’t stand Steve Harvey.

    I feel you on that. Wanting to get someone like Fitz is disturbing. And I’m seeing it a little too regularly. Some of my friends are absolutely obsessed. And don’t try to say anything negative about him or their “relationship.” There are more and more black men and women that are equating white to right. It’s like we are turning into Asian women (they love them some white men).

    I think black women are contributing to it because that is the dominant socialization. We are what we are socialized to be to a great degree. It becomes a cycle of life imitating art and art imitating life. That why this show annoys me to no end. When the representations are held as a positive, as with Olivia Pope, then their power to normalize exhibited behaviors is strengthened. When behavior is shown in a negative or marginalized light, then it tends to be less effective in creating norms surrounding the behavior. If you present black people being the side piece instead of the wife, and that is viewed as a positive, then you can expect that to start to get normalized.

    I believe this to be a subtle, yet insidious, form of white supremacy. We have started to internalize the idea that being white is merit or status in of itself. Even worse, the things that we look at as worthy traits are starting to be traits that are virtual proxies for whiteness.

    I think you might be surprised how often reality imitates art. Plenty of rich white guys have been having black side pieces for many decades. Hell, it’s been going on since slavery and hasn’t really let up since. And yes, that CEO down the hall is very hot for you. I have been told stories by young early 20s black black women that would shock you. One girl told me of how she fulfilled her sexual fantasy of an encounter in an office of a partner in a major firm. He was a middle aged, rich, white guy with children older than her. This image that we are being force fed is making situations like this a lot more common.

  • C2

    So by your logic, Italians are black too right because of the Moors interactions with them many years ago???

  • C2

    I’m really not trying to be offensive and I have nothing against mixed people. We hang out and when people are curious they keep it real and say they are mixed or half this and that. Key word: HALF

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    By my logic? Only if you aren’t reading.

    “keep in mind, I’m not the one that claims he can tell when people are black or not. I don’t have an equation that let’s me know where the line is between black and not black. I’m just saying that being black is not mutually exclusive to being mixed. I’m mixed and I’m black.”

    “considers many mixed people (not all mixed people) black — because there is no reasonable standard of how much mixing constitutes being “fully” black.”

    So I’m not sure if you don’t understand what mutually exclusive means or what. I didn’t say that being black and mixed were mutually inclusive (that means that would mean all mixed people are black). I’m saying that they aren’t mutually exclusive, meaning that you can’t say that no mixed people are black. The logical extension of that is that some mixed people can be black. I even explicitly stated above “NOT ALL MIXED PEOPLE”. Read more carefully before you try to extend someone’s logic.

    Like this — you stated that “MIXED PEOPLE ARE NOT BLACK!” I’ve already shown that you are likely mixed, so by your own logic you are not black. Also by your logic, Frederick Douglass is not black (his father was white). Any logic that holds Frederick Douglass is not black is questionable at best. You see how I based that off of what you actually stated.

  • C2

    I’m a journalist, so I like to keep stuff simple for readers.
    After all that typing you still did not answer the question. Are Italian people black because of the black blood in them from the Moors?
    I don’t see too many of them walking around proud to say “I’m Italian,but I’m mixed.” LOL!
    Is the self-esteem of Black people so low that we have to claim other races of people too?
    AND YES, DOUGLAS WAS MIXED TOO.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    your question wasn’t of any relevance. Given I never said ALL mixed people would be considered black, then it makes no sense to identify a group of potentially mixed people that would identify themselves as black. I’m no expert in Italian culture or history so I can’t tell you what they claim to be mixed with (if you need further simplification to the answer to your question — I DON’T KNOW). I’m sure you don’t really know either. What I do know is that there are mixed people that are very much black. It doesn’t follow that because you can identify some mixed people that identify themselves as white, that there are no black people that are actually black. Given the latter is the point of contention, of what relevance is the former?

    My question, on the other hand, was completely relevant. and you never answered it. You just restated what was obvious fact. I already asserted as fact that Frederick Douglass was mixed. My question to you was — is Frederick Douglass black?

    Nothing wrong with the self-esteem of blacks that recognize their diverse racial ancestry. You don’t need to claim anyone to recognize obvious historical fact. A better question is — is our intelligence so low that we have to create incoherent, idiosyncratic theories of race and mixtures without any connection to any field of study ever to exist? Are we really that uneducated?

    P.S. if that wasn’t simple enough

    THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION WAS —

    I
    DON’T
    KNOW

  • C2

    Thanks for answering! Please do a research paper on Italian people
    You mentined Creoles. Why are they called “Creoles” ? The dictionary (on my computer at work) said they are MIXED with black and White blood. Why not just call them black? Why create another term for them?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    You still must have missed the part where I said your question isn’t relevant. I’ll go look up the history of Italians when you go look up the history of Australian Aborigines. You know, while we are on the topic of completely unrelated courses of study.

    And you still have yet to answer my question.

    Is Frederick Douglass black?

    much of the Louisiana branch of my family is Creole, and they are black. Many subsets of a given race have a specific name based on the particulars of their origin as a subset. For example, Zulus are a subset of black people. Why not just call them black? Why create another term for them?

    same answer as for Creoles: calling them black does not mean they aren’t also Zulus. They can be called both. One term is referring to their race, the other is referring to a much more specific sort of grouping based on the particulars of their origin that would separate them from other black peoples, like the Creoles. Zulus are not Creole, nor are they Bantu, or Hatians. All of these groups have terms that describe something other than race while still remaining black.

    And what’s your point with the dictionary definition. Remember what the point of contention is. I’m arguing that mixed people can be black. So this definition is perfectly in line with my argument. The definition doesn’t say “Creole people are not black” so it doesn’t really do anything for your argument.

  • C2

    And I answered your question about Frederick Douglas already. He was a mulatto. According to the dictionary: a person with one white and one black parent. Why does that term exist?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I didn’t ask if he was a mulatto. I asked if he was black. It’s kind of a yes or no question. Not really all that complicated here. Funny how the most relevant questions you seem to side step. There is only one response that you can give without completely contradicting yourself. I wonder why you don’t just say “no, he wasn’t black”

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    But I already said I digress, so you don’t have to answer.. I will leave you so you can try and rationalize your inconsistencies now. have fun :)

  • C2

    Well…90 percent of everything you typed is not relevant. LOL! I answered your question three times. Let me say it again. No he was not Black. He was mixed. He looked black, but he was half white.
    So was he white too?
    ***Side note: Historians said he was PROBABLY the son of a white slave master. No one knows for sure. I learned that during research years ago in middle school.***
    Back to the subject.
    Its like meeting someone you think is fully Mexican, but you meet his dad and discover that he’s white. So guess what? HE’S NOT FULLY MEXICAN. I don’t care who his ancestors slept with 100 years ago!
    And let’s not forget how this disagreement came about. I was simply talking about the show and how easy it for white men to have a black sidepiece because of the negro bed wench fantasy and low self esteem. Then a mixed woman (so called black) came out the woodwork to defend white men. I wonder why? Is it because she felt the white side of her self was being attacked?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “My father was a white man. He was admitted to be such by all I ever heard speak of my parentage.”

    –Frederick Douglass

    “for thousands are ushered into the world, annually, who—like myself—owe their existence to white fathers, and, most frequently, to their masters, and master’s sons. The slave-woman is at the mercy of the fathers, sons or brothers of her master. The thoughtful know the rest.”

    –Frederick Douglass

    “This proves I am impartial. My first wife was the color of my mother and the second, the color of my father.”

    –Frederick Douglass

    Maybe those supposed historians should have asked him and maybe your middle school should have taught you to read more.

    Oh, and Mexican is a nationality, not a race. There are plenty of white Mexicans just like there are plenty of white Americans. You did know Mexico was a country, right?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Latin_American

    Reading Is Fundamental

    LOL

    I never disagreed with the other part of the original discussion. Only that nonsense about black people can’t be mixed.

  • C2

    “The opinion was … whispered that my master was my father; but of the correctness of this opinion I know nothing…” – Douglass

    From History.com
    An abolitionist, writer and orator Frederick Douglass was the most important black American leader of the nineteenth century. Born Frederick Augustus Washington Bailey on Maryland’s Eastern Shore, he was the son of a slave woman and, PROBABLY, her white master.

    You have your research and I have mine. I can post more sources…but I don’t want to.

    And on the Mexico thing…really…do we have to complicate everything to dance around the point. LMAO!

    OK lets say Asian.
    I have a homegirl with a Black father and Asian mother. She has long curly hair and looks Asian in the face more than anything. But I guess she Black, not Mixed……..right.

    LOL!

    Logic is fundamental too! 

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I should have said literacy is fundamental. try actually comprehending what you posted. It said he may have been his MASTER, not that he may have been white. He wasn’t sure which white man, just that he was white.

    It wasn’t complicated. It’s just clear that you don’t know the difference between nationality and race. And if you had even the remotest grasp on elementary logic, then you would know that my point would be proven if I point to one mixed person that is black. My one person is Frederick Douglass. Asking about other mixed people makes no logical sense because I never said that ALL mixed people were black. LOL so yeah, logic is fundamental. I’m going to recommend you work on your literacy and your logic. It’s hard to debate someone that is barely literate and illogical.

  • C2

    LOL!
    So is my Asian friend Black? Simple question.
    How can Douglass (let’s say his pops was white) be “black” and not my Asian homegirl?
    Makes no sense! Is it logical to say they’re both MIXED?
    Why pick and choose who can be considered “black” ?
    LOL!
    I have a college degree. I would not have one if I was “barely lilerate”
    I write for a living and have won awards for my work, please forgive me if I make a typo on the almighty “Clutch” website! LOL!
    And I’m going to recommend you work on using common sense.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I suppose anyone can get a college degree nowadays. Clearly doesn’t mean your literacy skills are up to par. And an award, you say. There’s no accounting for taste.

    Your inability to comprehend plainly written English is why i question your literacy, not typos. Whether you are selectively reading or just running your eyes over the words without comprehension, I can’t tell. It’s the same net result of you failure to absorb information through written text. I recommend you find a friend that is a little more skilled at reading comprehension, so they can read the above comments and explain them to you.

    While I would take the time to explain why your question was too stupid to even address, I doubt you would understand the explanation. So I will leave it to you to figure out why you are up for “dumbest question posted on clutch this week.” After you get someone to help you understand the argument above, then make a comment that actually makes sense. Then maybe we can actually have an intelligent exchange. I won’t be holding my breath.

  • http://brendadardenwilkerson.wordpress.com bdwilkerson

    So you miss the point. I don’t believe she was appealing to black men to like the show. She was commenting on how much they hate (vocally) the show. There is a difference. I think she’s pretty right on and you are off the rails to accuse her of feeling inadequate. It is a fact that black men have a double standard when it comes to interracial relationships–fine for them, not so much for black women. That’s the point. Stick to it.

    There are many shows I have no feelings about–don’t watch them, don’t care. If someone were to ask me how I felt about them, I would have to reply with little knowledge of them. That’s different than if I were to reply an emotional hatred, not only for the show, but for those who watch it. I would posit that the inadequacy is with those with such a reaction, in this case, black men who hate the show and accuse black women around something about massa’.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    there are SOME black men that have a double standard when it comes to interracial relationships, just as there are some black women that have a double standard when it comes to interracial relationships. I know quite a few black women that hate when they see black men with a white woman, but will date white men themselves. If the situation in Scandal were reversed with a black president cheating on his black wife with a white woman, I don’t think the mistress would be getting this much support. that’s a double standard.

    And had she not been a side piece of an older, rich, powerful, white man then there probably wouldn’t be any of the “massa” comments.

  • Scandal this

    I will put it politely. Fuck Scandal.!!!!
    You got it, And stop stereotyping all black men. I totally understand black women have been denigrated, and given little respect, but as for one who loves his black family and culture, I understand bowing down to images of black women and white men does nothing for black families or our culture. The stereotype in america is all black men are either dead, gay or in jail. so its open season on whitey. And we are falling for it hook line and sinker. Just look at TVs Deception and the new Tyler Perry show on OWN Git you a cracker, cause they’re sale.
    And if you think we have to step outside our race to find love, your a fuckn idiot.

    I will continue to love, respect and choose my Black sisters. And I understand the pitfalls of racism, and the deep rooted self hatred many of us have in our subconscious. Now that,s something whitey will never tell you.
    Now choke on that.

  • C2

    Great Post. Everything you said was 100 % true. By supporting this show, Black women are basically supporting white supremacy! Reverse the roles and have a Black President and white “side piece” Do you think this show would still be on the air? White men would not go for that! Their heads will spin. It would make Fox News every night. And every conservative white talk show host would be talking about it everyday.
    Look at how they did TO and the white chick from “Desperate Houswives.”
    When you tell Black Women this scenario, they admit that would happen, but they have no problem being a whore on TV.
    Its basically saying we can show your women getting treated like the “side b****” every Thursday to us (white men). But don’t even think about portraying our white women that way!

  • C2

    To Ravi:
    I took your advice and showed some friends your comments and they agreed with me. Everything you typed made no sense to them too!
    LOL!

  • C2

    Ravi,
    This sums up eveything you typed:
    http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F

    LOL!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I said show it to your smart friends. Not people that are less read and dumber than you. Maybe you don’t have any such friends. Just head to your local middle school and find a random kid that has learned how to read past a 5th grade level. Maybe they can help you and your friends to muddle through written English at a competent level, so you can stop misunderstanding what I type.

    https://www.hookedonphonics.com/

    try that, so you can competently sum up everything I wrote.

  • C2

    LOL! One of my friends is a doctor and the other one (Mixed) is a construction / arctitect and manages multi-million dollar highway projects. They seem pretty smart to me! LOL!

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    You are not the only woman….my fb feed is filled with his bs….if we put the same amount of energy into working out or coming together—black people would be unstoppable..I tried to watch one episode and between Kerry Washington’s over acting and her quivering funny looking mouth, I couldn’t do it…

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    Well said that’s my point. The black women who love Scandal and talk about how good of a show it is revel in feeling like they are sticking a knife into a black man when they talk and brag about how good the show is, when they talk about Scandal you can sometime feel the disdain they have for black men, that’s why I said I do not enjoy watching a show where the black women is the white man bed wench.

  • C2

    Yep. Underneath the surface, that’s what it’s all about. The so called “good writing, suspense and acting” is just a smoke screen. If it was a Black President and Black side piece Black women would not support it.
    This “Scandal” show is really opening the eyes of black men and the Negro Bed Wench mentality of American Black Women. Its all coming to surface now! It wasn’t just rape. A lot of them lusted after the slave master or his sons. Some even served their daughters up for gifts.

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    C2 I see this most by far in the educated black women who promote feminist themes and at the same time glory in sleeping with the slavemaster grand son and then wonder out loud why they are single however as MLK said truth crush to the ground shall raise again cause no lie can live for ever.

  • Angelique212

    You know what, Clutch. This was right on the money and you know, there is no law that says there have to be comment sections and outlets for these black male diseases to be hypocritical and evil. I WOULD SHUT DOWN COMMENT SECTIONS AND LET THEM STEW IN THEIR DISEASE.

    They get their rocks off by being Internet trolls to black women while they post pictures of fat white women warning black women that they have some real competition… you have really unattractive black males sitting on youtube talking about how ugly and worthless black women are… Instead of leading their communities, they spit on the women who stay and attack those who leave the abuse… WHY ENABLE THE SAVAGES? Honestly, if they, in the U.S., were wiped off the face of the earth and we imported select negro males from the U.K., America would be a better place. These American negroes have such low self-esteem, that it has become obvious that it is not really about the hypocrisy in their sweating white women, but it is the fact that these black males are up the asses of white men (they think Scandal is a problem… try watching Lil’ Wayne kiss the butts of poor white trash…embarrassing… while watching Kanye force entire audience of European whites to join in one of his songs, but ONLY on the word “nigga”…. spreading their pestilence around the world… negro males are the biggest sell outs) They are such wastes. Chatty wastes, but wastes nonetheless who feel entitled to speak on the black woman’s experience. smh.

    The only time these American black males stand up for anything, is when it is AGAINST their own women or the hoarding of a resource from their women (all black-male schools – big waste of investment resources – boys are about self… those resources WILL leave the community. Girls ARE the community, giving birth to Black children, and should accordingly, be invested in, but Black folk don’t get that in this country). When it was about their images on television as criminals, black men just bitched and moaned, but it was black women who demanded more directly to the machine in terms of the images of black men on non-Black shows, so it got to a point where we had waaay more black male doctors on television than black women doctors (House, ER, Grey’s Anatomy) even though it does not ring true statistically given the ratio of Black women/Black men in medical schools. Black women flooded to the aid of Jena 6, Sean Bell and Trayvon Martin and countless others, but never will these fools ever stand for the plight of their own women… they’d rather laugh at (and share) a video of a black woman getting beat down in her own home by one of their chick-like, black male wanna-be rappers. They also relish their claims of white male serial killers, yet we know there are just as many, if not more serial killers and sexual deviants, per capita, in black neighborhoods, it’s just no one cares about their black female victims. Menacing a black woman, apparently, is the new manhood for these new puny black males who years ago, would have wanted to gain muscle mass, but now, in an attempt to fit into white male style (if they are not already fat), want to stay fashion-thin, like white men… chicks.

    Any negative statistic on black women, the black American males cherish and spit out as venom to dehumanize their women while ignoring the fact that EVERY statistic is driven DIRECTLY by black male infidelity, behavior and lack of responsibility (Black women are the AIDS/HIV problem? Even Soledad O’Brien bought into that garbage, but Black women are 1 in 30… Black males, 1 in 16, yet NO ONE is painting the black males with one big ole disease brush. They also want to say all black women are fat when, according to the CDC, there is only a 10% differential between black female obesity rates and black male (80% to 70%), yet BLACK WOMEN ARE THE ONES WHO GIVE BIRTH TO CHILDREN which involves weight gain, what’s the black male’s excuse? Wuh? Black athletes are good PR? I see. Black males would rather accept a gay black male, than admit to a black woman being a human. THAT, years ago, would have really meant something, but there is such overlap between the heterosexual and gay black males in terms of culture and lifestyle today, that the acceptance makes sense.

    You actually have black males believing that through this show, black women are devaluing themselves, sexually. o_O… Need we go further at the pure stupidity of a group of who has, over the past couple of decades committed themselves to defiling black women’s bodies for sport? I have a black husband who sees their hypocrisy and stupidity as well, unfortunately, he thinks its just stupid, but women know this is more sinister and a sad testament to the same black males who didn’t blink when there was not one black woman in Red Tails (despite the fact that the real Red Tails would never have existed without Mary McCleod Bethune [and Willa Beatrice Brown] and her convincing Eleanor Roosevelt to work with the HBCUs to recruit the finest young men. THAT history, is typical of the black woman’s role in the success of these entitled males who if given the opportunity, will erase anything of value about black women in their psyches.

    Of the groups in the United States, Black women are the LEAST LIKELY to marry and date out of their group (alongside Asian men), yet because of one television show, and a couple of blogs, black males, per usual adding nothing of value to any conversation, decide to further MAKE UP their own version of reality based on their own sense of constant victimization. Delusional and sad. They see black women as competitors to white affection (again, embarrassing), when Black men are supposed to be LEADERS in the community. Instead, these males are whiners and REALLY believe their own delusions. Sad. It is very much a mental illness.

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    Just one thing the America male and female negro and the UK male and female negro is one and the same they both suffer from a white supremacist mind set and by reading your comment that include you, stop engaging in gender warfare because if you are smart you would know neither gender makes sense without the other.

  • http://backyardliberty.com Clarence Brown III

    Why do you think they call it TV programming in the first place? You people are worried about some stupid ass show on Network Tell Lie Vision, the Food Price Index is on steep incline. For example if you look at Peanut butter jar labels, you used to get 16 oz. of Peanut butter, now you only get 14.8 oz., yet you still pay the same price. There is a food shortage in America, over 40,000,000 people on food stamps, but we are too busy watching some contrived story that would never ever happen in the real world.

  • Ty

    wow! When these bed winches gets the hots for ole Masa there is no limit to the lengths they will go through. They actually think they are going to finally get respect after 400 years beause they have good diction and a business suit.

  • Ty

    It’s okay if after you have gotten education and power your greatest inspiration is to be some white boy’s tramp, just don’t expect me or any other man that knows his self worth to respect you afterwards. Yall want to be free to do what you want but be free of the consequences, not!

  • Mr. Masters

    This is the dumbest shit ever, so powerful she ended being a side hoe no matter what else you want to say pure dumb ass black ruined minded women

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    And they think they are educated.

  • Clarence Brown III

    The funny thing about the dynamics of the black community is that Black Women run the show, so whatever they approve or disapprove so does the community. Do you know Denzel Washington would specifically not have white female romantic leads in his films for fear of alienating his large black female audience. That is why movies and shows that depict the lest dignifying positions for black women to be in, all of sudden become a badge of honor. Whoopi Goldberg acted her ass of in the Color Purple, but got didn’t win an Oscar. Halle Barry gets dug out by Billy Bob Thorton in a lackluster film she gets the Oscar. I watched Scandal first few episodes with a female friend of mine and I told her the show will remain good as long as Kerry Washington’s character doesn’t sleep with the President, because once she does that she will lose all of her power she has over him. Remember her character was written to be a no non-sense PR Damage Control for the Presidency, which she did well, but instead of letting sexual tension develop through out the season, and give the audience some suspense, the writers have her give up the ass too quick 3 or 4 episodes in the season, that is what turned me off from the show. A real bad bitch knows how to seduce a powerful man without ever having to give up the pussy so quick. It would have made for a better show if they let the sexual tension build. Look at all the good TV shows in which the sexual tension was aloud to build until the final season like the X-Files, Who’s the Boss, Moonlighting, Miami Vice, and even CSI.

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    And they wonder why they are having so many problems with the young black males.

  • C2

    There’s no balance. But they think it’s OK. When you see young black males on YouTube twerking …you know something is wrong. Its obvious that we have been going backwards since the “Strong Single Black Women” movement started in the early 70s.

  • Angelique212

    You all are some of the most delusional negroes. It’s actually sad. Maybe there will be hope when your types die out, because you all are out of your minds. Zero… black males take zero responsibility for anything. Pity parties yet they claim to be leaders. smdh. Disgusting…

  • Angelique212

    …on the Internet trolling about how much they are victims to black women instead of taking some young boys to the park on Memorial day weekend… smh. Weakest males on the planet…

  • Angelique212

    …says the white woman’s pet chimpanzees… When you all are done whining about ONE fictional character, please “CHECK” your REAL LIFE athletes and entertainers? Look in the mirror negroes. You all are embarrassing yourselves with these overreactions, YET are NOWHERE to be found scolding Chief Keef and his antics. Attacking women aok? Cool… give passes and excuses to your feminized boys. Nice.

  • lol

    ” neither gender makes sense without the other.”

    didn’t you say you were married to a white woman?

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    Now who raise these weakest males on the planet?

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    Nope not me been happily married to a sweet loving black women for almost thirty years!

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    I some what agree with you Angelique212 and I will ask you again just who born and raised these delusional and irresponsible Negroes?

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    Good point, That’s why when they talk about the sorry, no count, weak, irresponsible black male I ask them “just who born and raised these no count bad males”?

  • AdorkABLE

    It’s just a show. I’ve only been able to see the first season so I don’t know exactly what is going on in the show. I like the show more for the relationship and the things going on behind the scenes. When I look at Fitz and Olivia I don’t see a WM & BW. I see two people who have an obvious connection and attraction to each other even though the circumstances they have aren’t the best. I don’t see Olivia as some guy’s whore. She has just as much power as he does to completely end and forget about what they have, but they both choose not to. They are both in charge of their own destinies. If Olivia didn’t want to be with the other guy that’s her choice. Why do people get up in arms over who is dating, sleeping with, or marrying someone of a different race whether it be fictional or reality. Slavery is over, yet for some reason if a BW gets with a WM she has issues with the men of her race. If she does, who cares, that is her choice. I’m not going to stop any man or women from finding love and happiness with whoever they want to regardless of their race.

  • Angelique212

    Please look up THE ADOLESCENTS – a documentary on Elephants and how its importance in the conversation on fatherhood. Children were not meant to be raised by ONE person, no matter how self-sacrificing THE WOMAN/MOTHER. Communities, maybe, but one person, NO? You clearly don’t know how children distinguish between a male and females and their biological challenging behaviors at certain stages of life, etc… in other words, you don’t know what you don’t know… you don’t know exactly HOW complex parenting is and how it is unsuccessful for MOST RACES when it is done in solitude. Let’s blame the people who stay and give up their lives for these children, not the ones who leave. Again, you negroes will never utter a word NOT in the favor of the whining black male. I’d rather that weak DNA die off than continue with this constant whining… “but black women this”, “but black women that”… cry the world a river. Go to youtube and type in “OWN” and “Fstherless Sons” … typical stuff… NOTHING the mother’s could do or sacrifice was enough for these boys… again… nothing is ever the fault of the black male… not even a little bit (which would be an understatement).

  • C2

    Great question!
    If they have a son that graduates from a Ivy Leauge college with a 4.0 they take all the praise. But if he becomes a thug with jail a record, they blame the black man!
    Black women, responsibilty and logic is like oil and water- It does not mix.

  • Angelique212

    SHIRLEY CAESAR – “NO CHARGE”

    My sister’s little boy came into the kitchen
    One evening while she was fixing supper
    And he handed her a piece paper
    He had been writing on

    And after wiping her hands on an apron
    She took it in her hands and she read it
    And this is what it said

    For mowing the yard, five dollars
    And for making up my own bed this week, one dollar
    For going to the store, fifty cents
    And playing with little brother while you went shopping, twenty-five cents

    Taking out the trash, one dollar
    And for getting a good report card, five dollars
    And for raking the yard, two dollars
    Total owed, fourteen seventy-five

    Well, she looked at him standing there and expecting
    And a thousand memories flashed through her mind
    So she picked up pen and turned the paper over
    And this is what she wrote

    For the 9 months I carried you
    Holding inside me, no charge
    For the nights I sat up with you
    Doctored you, prayed for you, no charge

    For the time and the tears and the costs through the years
    There is no charge
    When you add it all up the full cost of my love
    Is no charge

    For the nights filled with gray
    And the worries ahead, no charge
    For the advice and the knowledge
    And the costs of your college, no charge

    For the toys, food and clothes
    And for wiping your nose there’s no charge son
    When you add it all up the full cost of my love
    Is no charge

    Well, you know when I think about that
    I think about the day that Jesus went out on Calvary
    And gave His life as a ransom for me
    When I think on the words, if any man be in Christ, he’s a new creature

    I like to think about the very minute that He shed His blood
    My debt was paid in full
    And I want you to know today
    When you add it all up the full cost of real love is no charge
    ********************************************************

    Children never know or appreciate your sacrifice until they themselves are in that position. We have generations of boys and men who are not and will never be in a position to know what it is like to raise a child, lose your sleep, miss work, spend hours feeding, spend hours teaching, spending nights sitting up by their beds until they were not too afraid to fall asleep or while they were sick so you could make sure they didn’t suffocate in their sleep, eating sporadically and gaining weight, struggling to pays your bills but ensuring that your child wants for nothing, being harassed by strange men as you walk through your neighborhood, being cussed for being black and a woman, trying to earn your keep while making sure your children stick to their schoolwork in horrible school districts that could not keep the most focused child interested… and more than these cowards could ever know… NO these males do not love their children, these fathers who run away…they love being unencumbered. They love the freedom to blame their decisions on everyone else without accepting any responsibility for the MONUMENTAL task of raising a child WELL in “UNSUPPORTIVE” ENVIRONMENTS. A task left to a lone woman, dooming your children and the abandoned family’s future. Suck it up fellas. It’s your fault you couldn’t make it work. Grow some damn cojones.

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    Look Angelique212 the very worst thing we are doing is placing blame on one agenda or the other however there is a fact that we all come from a women and the mother is our first teacher and the male or father must be allowed by the mother to properly father his children example my wife told me I was a good father and husband and I replied to her I thanked her for allowing me to be the good husband to her and good father to our children by not buying into a bunch of liberal bull crap and seeing the good in me and not so much the bad, not criticizing me and running me of because of my many mistakes that’s how we worked together and became one and raised two successful young men one doing well in the financial industry and one became Doctor “MD” two weeks ago true story, to many young black children had good father but they were ran off by a misguided mother, wife/ baby mother because she thought a good man was suppose to be perfect and that’s a fact.

  • Angelique212

    Again… a refusal to acknowledge the males role… let’s just move on, right? Who are these males living alongside these black women who are being run off?!?!? That comes NOWHERE NEAR any supported data stating that these dudes EVER existed as co-parents. THAT DOES NOT REFLECT THE DATA OR THE REALITY. You’re telling me that from the moment of conception (because if the dude did not want to have a child with this worthless woman, he CERTAINLY, being the king he is, would not have planted his seed in her unworthy womb, right?), so you’re telling me, that from the time he planted his seed in the woman, he was run off by which woman… the hormonal pregnant woman, the overtired mother of a newborn with possible postpartum depression? Is it the tired woman now carrying more weight and stress on her body who is learning how to deal withe her toddlers (the worst possible stage equaled only by adolescence)… which woman ran him off? The woman who needed more help than he was willing to give? smh…

    I don’t get into personal stories, because ONE story does not a GENERAL truth, make, but since you mentioned yours. When I look back on what my mother did in my TWO PARENT HOUSEHOLD… my goodness. This woman was a SOLDIER, but I never appreciated it, my father, also a SOLDIER, could do no wrong… that’s real. That’s stressful for a mother and it is common.

    “…many young black children had good father but they were ran off by a misguided mother, wife/ baby mother because she thought a good man was suppose to be perfect and that’s a fact.”

    This statement is pure fiction and the lie that irresponsible black males want to perpetuate in order to remove the responsibility from themselves. A lie. A lie. A manipulation that these males, who typically DO NOT LIVE with the mother, are run off by her because he’s not perfect. These males are far from perfect and the standard is NOT HIGH from these women… lower expectations than most communities in the U.S.. No more excuses. You’re not even the generation. Do you really know how bad things are right now? This is nothing like even 20 years ago! Do you really feel like this is the batte you want to fight? You want to fight against a fictional television show when in real life you have black male athletes and entertainers LIVING as whores for whites all while not one of you chides them, but hunt online for anything having to do with the black women left behind just so they can be trolled and assaulted on websites for Black women? WEAK men… across the board. Weak…weak….

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    Angelique212 since you are so mad and full of hatred for the black man and want to win a argument rather than debate to come to some kind of understanding and fine a solution to our many problems why don’t you visit Obama and get him to force congress to pass a bill to kill all black males in the US today and if a women is pregnant with a black male baby kill them too before they are born so they will no breathe and foul the air then after that would you be happy?

  • Angelique212

    …and here we go… woe is you and your black males. Instead of just saying, “Yes, black MEN could step up and come up with a solution as we are the leaders of our communities… We should bear at least half the responsibility for the seeds we plant, the children we bring into the world…” Instead of accepting even a LITTLE responsibility, you instead go ad hominem and the route of justifiable genocide (my beautiful husband is Black… that wouldn’t work for me). As I said, weak… You keep fighting against your women to prove that you have no responsibility towards your community. THIS IS YOUR FIGHT? That black women need to be the only women in the U.S. who MUST successfully raise their children to feel whole even when the other half of those children refuses to fill in the rest of that space, or else the mothers will be seen as lesser than for sticking it out and surviving? … and I should say weakest men in the U.S. There are weaker men around the world in failing societies who behave as you all do in the Black American communities in the U.S., except here we have certain laws meant to protect those in white society that, as a byproduct, at times protect the victims of those who live alongside you all. The women of South African and the Dalit are models of what weak men, weak in mind and in spirit/ broken by the dominant society, do to the few who are in a lower position than they. This is how the black male in the U.S. behaves and until he is no longer coddled by the black women he despises and the masses who condone his bad behaviors (they watch him like porn while keeping their faux “family values” in tact), the Black American community will never heal and come togetherso they might rise.

  • SH

    I enjoy the show. It is entertainment. I can discern reality from fiction. I don’t enjoy that Liv is having an extramarital affair with the President, but I like the characters of the show and their complexities. I am concerned with some of the comments I read through. One comment read that Black women don’t have pride in themselves or their race if we don’t spend the rest of our lives waiting for Black men to love us while not allowing men of other races to pursue us is ridiculous! Everyone deserves to be happy. Whether he be Black or otherwise, as long as he makes me happy the color of his skin does not matter. Let’s keep a healthy dialogue going and stop the name calling, overly sarcastic posts. This is an opportunity for us to talk to one another in a respectable manner and learn from one another. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. No matter how much you may disagree.

  • silence

    the black woman was the massa’s bed wench, snitch & drone over the black family
    way long before (centuries) the black man
    had the nerve take the white woman’s hand without fearing for his life… only God knows if female slaves have ever been raped during this time… what does <> really mean to a welfare queen or an educated opportunist who thinks it’s all over ???

  • silence

    the black woman was the massa’s bed wench, snitch & drone over the black family
    way long before (centuries) the black man
    had the nerve to take the white woman’s hand without fearing for his life… only God knows if female slaves have ever been raped during this time… what does double standard really mean to a welfare queen or an educated opportunist who thinks it’s all over ???

  • Angelique212

    Now these black male savages want to make up history after not sitting down and paying attention in school for most of their lives. Suddenly black women aided white men in holding the STRONG black man down?

    Pissant… if you can read…

    “Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman showed a great admiration for one another as they struggled together against slavery. When an early biography of Tubman was being prepared in 1868, Douglass wrote a letter to honor her. It read in part:

    ‘You ask for what you do not need when you call upon me for a word of commendation. I need such words from you far more than you can need them from me, especially where your superior labors and devotion to the cause of the lately enslaved of our land are known as I know them. The difference between us is very marked. Most that I have done and suffered in the service of our cause has been in public, and I have received much encouragement at every step of the way. You, on the other hand, have labored in a private way. I have wrought in the day—you in the night. … The midnight sky and the silent stars have been the witnesses of your devotion to freedom and of your heroism. Excepting John Brown—of sacred memory—I know of no one who has willingly encountered more perils and hardships to serve our enslaved people than you have.[63]‘ – Douglass

    —————————————————–
    YOU QUESTION THEIR RAPE?

    “Strong black women were sold as breeders valued for their reproductive as well as productive capacity” (Doherty). In the years just before the Civil War women were often sold for higher prices than males at slave auctions. ‘For one group of women, the assigned price depended upon their beauty and subsequent use to the master who could lease them to wealthy white men’ (Doherty). Women were sold for as much as $1,800. Skilled men were sold for up to $1,500 and unskilled field hands were sold for up to $1,350 (Gates 22). ”

    “Though many women were raped as a form of punishment, slave owners, or their heirs would rape women for no particular reason other than the power of the act itself. Besides suffering through the horrible things these men did, some women were also forced bear children from this terrible act. There were many slaves who had to grow up knowing that there mother was raped and the rape led to their existence. Sarah Ashley, a former slave, shares her awful story of how she was conceived.

    My mother’s mistress had three boys, one twenty-one, one nineteen and one seventeen. Old mistress had gone away to spend the day one day. Mother always worked in the house. She didn’t work on the farm in Missouri. While she was alone, the boys came in and threw her down on the floor and tied her down so she couldn’t struggle, and one after the other used her as long as they wanted for the whole afternoon. Mother was sick when her mistress came home. When old mistress wanted to know what was the matter with her, she told her what the boys had done. She whipped them and that’s the way I came to be here. (Gates 96)”

    ——————————————————

    You idiots sit around whining and moaning about your self-inflicted victim hood, and use LIES against your women to explain why you all fail at even the most BASIC of human interactions, e.g., keeping your families together. You all are a disgrace.

    Oh… and these welfare queens you speak of, control 85% of Black buying power… and more of them are employed than Black males (In 2011, about half of Blacks aged 16 and older had a job, and 18.0 percent of those employed worked part-time.2 Blacks are the only racial or ethnic group for whom women represent a larger share of the employed than do men – more than half [53.8 percent] of employed Blacks in 2011 were women, compared to 46.0 percent among employed Whites. Nonetheless, employed black women still earn less than employed black men – black women earn roughly $0.91 to every dollar earned by black men.).

    Massa… oh please… you’re the one who stays in chains.

  • C2

    True. When it comes to slavery it’s “elephant in the room” black women refuse to talk about or admit.
    Tariq Nasheed (director of “Hidden Colors”) talked about this on his show. There were a lot bed wenches during slavery. During that time period there was a lot of vacation resorts where the slavemasters would take their side pieces on so called “business trips” to get super freaky!!! He would bring his wench and floss her around other white men doing the same thing.
    I’m pretty sure these women felt special at the time. But when they returned to the plantation their asses went straight back to work and NEVER PUT A RING ON IT !!!! LMAO.
    Sadly Black women today still think its something special to be a white man’s whore.

  • C2

    Thanks for the history lesson.
    Yes, a lot of Black women were raped during slavery.
    But a lot of them loved being the master’s bed wench too!

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    C2 I always like reading your comments you are right the black women do love being the white man bed wench cause he has power, money, and offer them security he is almost like a god to them. When we straighten up and give our women physical, economic and emotional security we will be like a god to them and they will love being our bed wench, now that’s the long and short of it.

  • Angelique212

    Ah yes… ignore facts of the history lesson you, and the other minions of foolishness, so sorely require. Just say what you want to say, because it must be true… Trollin’ ain’t easy… Willing bedwenches… black male slave hunters…black male Confederate soldiers… CRUEL black male drivers…there will always be anomalies, but to characterize entire groups based on the actions of a minority within the group, just so you don’t have to raise your kids or have to show yourself or your community any respect for yourselves today, or because of one television show, is the ultimate in disease. You all are sick… sick. All black males are drug dealers. All black males are murderers. All black males are illiterate. All black males are thugs… and so on… good luck with that “logic” of yours… *pish*… “Thanks for the history lesson”… pure ignorance.

  • C2

    LMAO @ Angelique212!
    So Angry! LOL!
    “Diary of Mad Angelique”
    Directed by Tyler Perry

  • Angelique212

    Oh @C2… If you had proven to have any sense, I would be FURIOUS not just angry, as any group of people should be at such those within their ranks who behave like cancers, but you’re kind of a joke… playing with trolls never gets my ire. My (Black) husband and I are laughing at you, so yeah… as I said… good luck with that. :)

  • C2

    MenLOL! Thank you Angelique. I’m here all day! I’m about to go on a comedy tour.
    And when I return from that, I’m going to build a time machine and film a reality show with bed wenches and their slavemasters.
    If you think black women love “Scandal”wait to they get a load of this!!! LOL!
    Have a good day. I’ll check this board on Sunday. I’m about to go help mentor young black boys (sons of single mothers) through my fraternity.

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    Oh don’t say you got a black husband.

  • Angelique212

    Well that will be a mess. Mentoring young boys? Do they know you spend most of your time rewriting history and trolling because of one television show? Just desecrating the lives of thousands of women who carried more burdens in one day than you carry in your life, simply because Olivia Pope, a fictional character, is having a love affair with some dude.

    Hmmmm…. teaching young boys how to whine, discount education and truth, while scapegoating and practicing hypocrisy is not a good look, but maybe the women, their single mothers who didn’t cut and run… the women who, when it got difficult, didn’t just walk away and make excuses, will be able to set their sons minds right, the minds of young black boys (whose father’s didn’t give a damn about the families they left behind). :)

  • MidnightSunshine

    Correcting My Errors . . .

    Some people are not necessarily racists, but they are dedicated to their race in general and do not wish it to dissolved. Black Americans are getting lighter and lighter. Where I live I very seldom see a very black person among African Americans. It is getting to the point that one can almost always distinguish between Black Africans and Black Americans, and that is causing some Black Americans to think critically. Do we want our race to dissolve? My answer is “No.” A good man is a good man no matter which race he is in. So, I am not downing men of other races. My comment is about the Black race’s survival, PERIOD!

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    That’s right, so true the same way I feel with any sane black person it’s about our survival just as the white man, brown man, yellow man, red man etc only concern about their survival PERIOD!!!!!

  • ConcernBlackWomen

    I struggle with watching scandal not because I want to support the leading actress who is the African American woman because that’s super rare what my issue is like you brought out how there is a lot of degrading things towards black women but should higher values to be displayed be decreased just because other people do it if that were the case most of the movements and change to be have made in history would not be made because of the fact that we have chosen 2 replace one questionably moral of things with another.the same thing bothers me the most as a black woman was the fact that more people were cheering for her by her I mean Olivia Pope to be with a married man with children instead of being with the black politicians who was a good man probably would have treated her very well it is not so much that he’s white and a president but its the fact that he’s married he has children the Act the day will go in do that behind his family is back is very selfish to have an affair it takes away from the the couple of weekends in marriage takes away from the children damages their bond all because you want to choose to have an affair and that is what my biggest issue is and they will never show the children on the show because they were the show the children on the show the show a real life impact of what is a bear does to the family Olivia would never be seen as a good guy there is no way because no child no matter what would happen would be okay with their father on cheating on their mother.saying things that the president it has said to Millie and saying that he wanted to leave his wife for his mistress to come live in the White House that would make Olivia the villan automatically no matter if she is veiwed as the hero.all in all my biggest point is that we allow our morals to falter because someone else has it doesn’t improve our society or us as a people and my other pointers adult entertainment the seat into the mind of a young black girls they will see this we have to be reminded and remind each other what we/they are worth.

  • http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2013/01/abc-scandal-inter-racial-relationships/ Conscious Perhaps??

    Same ole saga, ‘negro bed wench’. White men really want ‘our’ women, don’t they? Always have. Check out Lincoln, Django,etc., Why promote race and sex?Creative? Really? Why don’t Shoronda and Hollywood play up a pornographic display, like Scandal, of a black male sexing a white female with the same passion. Let’s talk about equity? I vehemently disagree with the commodification of Black or White females in the media or in advertisement (Hanes female underwear commercial with the camera on the female’s genitalia, really?), and rap videos etc., ( this appears to be misogynistic and the FCC should label it hate speech against Black Women, in particular). They do not promote nor sing derogatory songs about any other ethnic women as in comparison to Black Women. Your excuse for the low percentage of watchers of the ‘inverse plot’ is groundless.Perhaps it is because of the media, the writers and producers unwillingness to challenge, or perhaps to offend the white male supremacy construct that we do not see ‘their’ women displayed in this light. I saw the same story line in Rhymes’ “Private Practice” a young Black woman in the bed again with a white male. Wow? Really?

  • MsKGnLV

    Hmm no mention of the Black man who left his Black Wife and daughter for the White woman. The same Black Man who pined away for the White chick for the rest of the series? No contempt for that eh?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I have contempt for both. The difference is no one is trying to defend a black man that leaves his black wife, while a whole bunch of people are defending this black mistress.

  • Angelique212

    … because no one was giving the black man in Private Practice, or the Chief of the hospital on Grey’s anatomy a hard time. smh.

  • C2

    I guess “Scandal” is back on. It’s Negro Bed wench season! That time of the year when hair hatted (weave) hooligans get moist between the legs about being the white man’s No.2 … Excuse me according to studies, No. 10!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I just said I had contempt for that also. And everyone else likely did too. The only reason it wasn’t an issue was because of the fact that folks weren’t celebrating his behavior like they do with Scandal. If everyone agrees that it’s messed up, then you won’t have a controversy. Had folks been identifying with this dude like they do with Olivia Pope, there would have been a similar battle.

    And if you recall, Private Practice had a number black women with white men in less than cool ways. Like the barely legal black receptionist getting done on her desk after hours by the middle aged white dude. There was no big to do about that either.

  • KoolKid

    Um hello??? Are we seriously gonna sweep under the rug the fact that Fitz wife Mellie never minded the affair to begin with, but got up in arms after she found out that Fitz and Olivia are really in love with each other??? Their marriage is a job contract, not one union united in unconditional love! “Pretending is what’s real” –Mellie Grant

    So before you start assuming shit, I suggest you watch the show from the first season to season 3 episode 1 and then will talk. smfh…

  • http://www.facebook.com/Afrosoul4eva Jason Fcuk-LeBron Williams

    “For once, a black woman is depicted on screen who is one self-reliant, skilled, bad-ass business-woman capable of making her own decisions based on choices independent of black male control — and she chose a white man.” LMAO typical bitter black woman talk. Yall are just too funny for me.

  • [email protected]

    I’m saddened that brothers and sisters are constantly fighting and trying to shame each other, often in public forums, over nonsense. Too often I see articles like this one either trying to create a fight between black men and women or hyping one up. It’s pathetic!
    Scandal is a TV show meant to entertain and stir emotions. It’s not high philosophy, sociology or anthropology.

  • C2

    The Negro Bed Wench show must be on.
    That special time of the week when Black women get moist about being the white man’s No. 2!
    LoL!

  • Keith

    While I respect your opinion and your experiences as a Black woman, I have to disagree with the basic premise that all or most Black men are in a way jealous and want to have the right to mistreat Sisters. I’m on my 31st year with my wife. I love and respect her, as I do all Black women. I’m not into music or video or movies that treat Sisters like sexual objects, that demean them, paint them as gold diggers, argumentative, etc.
    But what I do have issues with is the status of healthy Black man/Black woman relationships. Even though a percentage of Brothers marry white women, the vast majority of Black people marry other Blacks. Yet look at the media and how many positive Black couples do we see on TV or at the theatre? You can name a dozen white couples that are romantic, that stick together through thick and thin, that are on everyone’s list of most romantic couples. But how many Black couples really get that treatment? Specifically, how many dramatic Black couples do we see, instead of just in comedies or on sitcoms?
    My concerns with “Scandal” is that it has a Sister dating a white man, but seemingly disinterested in Black men. Likewise, “Grey’s Anatomy” didn’t have a Black couple that was healthy–or at least “interesting”. It seems that so often in order to get widespread viewership, we eschew portraying Black men with Black women on TV or in movies (like “Hitch”). Instead we put one Black person with a white or Latin person. Again, outside of sitcoms, therefore, we see no romantic Black couples on TV.
    That saddens me. It paints a picture that healthy, committed Black couples are rare. It seems to be going back to the days when Black women were only allowed to be with white men romantically on TV, and Black men were all but neuters with no partners.
    I’m not trying to say “Scandal” shouldn’t exist. Lots of people love it (including my wife). But it does trouble me that a show that gets so much exposure doesn’t take the opportunity to show Black couples onscreen and help whites–and Blacks–realize we can make it together.
    It’s just a shame that more Black-centered shows don’t make it, so we could have a dramatic answer to the likes of “Scandal” that does show a healthy Black couple.

  • http://montgomerydjango.wordpress.com montgomerydjango

    “My concerns with “Scandal” is that it has a Sister dating a white man, but seemingly disinterested in Black men.”

    So what, get over it already and be happy with your wife. Again this is the dog in the manger attitude and possessiveness black men have with black women.

  • Pretty_BlackIce

    After reading these comments and dissecting the different exchanges, I have t o say that I am very disappointed in the responses from the male commentators, and even more disappointed in the women who continued to argue with these poor deluded children. Young boys I don’t blame you for your disdain of this show, it is beyond your understanding and you can not relate to the true theme of the story. It took a while for me to understand your point of view, but now I get it. You all are not angry with this show, you are angry because for the first time, you are being rejected, degraded, dehumanized, desexualized, belittled, and made an after – thought by a black woman, one of your own…now you know how it truly feels to be a black woman in America. Unfortunately, your feelings are unwarranted, because Scandal is not about you it is about us for once. It is about feminine liberation that’s why all women can relate to all of the story’s powerful characters, from the president’s wife to Olivia pope’s mother. These women fight, love, and sacrifice for the betterment of their livelihoods and Olivia has the most power because her life does not stop or start because of Fitz nor does it exist because of Edison. I know that’s what really has you all upset, isn’t she’s not a thirsty, desperate “ho” begging for your attention on Instagram, she’s not a “video ho” spreading her butt cheeks for you to slide a credit card down the crack of her ass. She is more powerful than all of you, she makes the choices, she does the choosing, and you all aren’t used to that. You are afraid and you should be because eventually more of our women are going to ask for more, they are going to want more, they are going to demand more from the men that we are taught to cherish, to love, to respect. I don’t know where you all are from, but here in Charleston, SC we love our smart, decent, pro-black, black men who love their black women. I love my husband and he loves his dark chocolate princess, and my beautiful black children. We are very Afro-centric, so I am very disturbed by your comments C2. You say the most horrible and belittling things about black women, like many little boys do, but you neglect the fact that when you categorize so many black women it speaks volumes of your hatred for them. What does your mother think about those comments you make about massa’s bed winches, is your mother a winch, grandmother, great grandmother, great great grandmother….I know what you are referring to those women were similar to “house niggas”…that was their defense mechanism their way of survival not something they naturally took pride in, and by giving some of the slave women those “alleged privileges” the slave master’s made sure the slaves would argue, fight, and maintain a strong discord and not rise together….much like you all are doing now. Moreover, the slave men were raped too by the master’s wife, so he was constantly emasculated in front of his family and he was absolutely helpless all he could do is empathize with the plight and burdens of his wife…read the William lynch papers. Instead of attacking these women continue to be the exception, comedian or not you have good sense use it. Prove that you are the better man and that you aren’t a typical stereotype, and that your argument is to preserve black love and restore the black man’s image despite what these women have experienced. Make these women see that they are beautiful as they are, that they are worth love, respect, and loyalty…be an outlier, a solution and not a driving force behind this dreadful cycle. The whole dissolution of the black family and black culture is TIRED, and that goes for everyone on this blog….very very very sad!

  • C2

    That was so comical. I guess I’ll be a little “boy” and make more comments. It’s funny how angry white men and Black women love to call Black men that. Two sides of the same coin… but that’s another topic.
    Dr. Mary McLeod Bethune, Rosa Parks, Coretta Scott King, Betty Shabazz, Tubman, etc. were powerful and strong women. Today’s so called “Skrong-Independent-Black Woman” are a joke.
    At the end of the day you can’t pour syrup on S*** and call it pancakes. Olivia Pope is still a whore and continues the Negro Bed Wench stereotype. The show is mediocre. It’s not about Pope kicking butt and taking names. It’s about her staying on her back, desk or up against a tree (with no privacy and two other men near by). At least the bedwench got it on the “bed.” LOL! Take away the sub plot of her “fixer” role, you have a good porno.
    If Pope was white, Black woman would not watch it. If the president was black, it would be off the air. Black women and white men lost their minds over that 30 second Cherrios commercial, so I know they’ll go crazy if the races were reversed.
    I love Black Women, that’s why I hate to see them degraded. I can’t stand Beyonce shaking her butt every 2 minutes. And have the nerve to be surprised when some white boy smacks it while she’s performing. Well…That’s what she promotes. BUT BLACK WOMEN LOVE HER and Nikki Minaj. They had no problem with this whore using the iconic Malcolm X to sell a song called “Looking ass N-words”
    The “Your Momma Black” response is so typical of black women. LoL! But since you brought it up – My mother and grandmother are not bed wenches. My mom watches the show for entertainment reasons. BUT she’s woman enough to say that the only reason it’s so popular with black women is because of Pope’s lust for a white man. It would not get all the hype if all the characters were black.
    Don’t try to change history. Although some Black woman were raped during slavery, a lot of them took PRIDE in being the master’s wench for a lot of reasons. Black women still talk that “good hair” crap today. It’s the reason why an Asian family can open up a weave store and send 10 kids to college. But Sharkesha-Alize has to get a student loan and use her refund check to buy more weave.
    Come on son (In my Ed Lover voice) we all know Black Men could get killed for even sniffing a white woman’s perfume. But to be fair, there were some cases where white women fell in love with black men and risked their lives to help them escape to freedom. They did not stay on the plantation like the bed wenches.
    But maybe what you said was true. Maybe the slavemaster did get off on watching his wife with over slaves. I had a deep conversation with a white male co-worker years ago and he admitted two things: White men are intimidated by Black men but admire them at the same time. He said that’s why Black man/white woman skin flick are mostly purchased by white men. He fixed computers as a side job and being nosey, he noticed that a lot of white men had these type of dirty films on their computers. In music, he also pointed out that when a white man sounds like a black man – he blows up and becomes popular.
    You have to ask yourself why the black man is always looking like the chump in Hollywood and if innerracial dating is promoted, it’s usually with a white man. First Black Disney Princess, but no Black Prince to save her?????? (Disney produces Scandal too). The Black man in the cartoon was the villian – go figure.
    The Lynch papers are made up documents. Black people have to stop making excuses for supporting coonery and white supremacy. When you watch Scandal, that’s exactly what you’re doing.
    “I’m not from Mars, I’m just reacting to this dumb s***!” – Paul Mooney on racism and white supremacy.

  • Pretty_BlackIce

    This may come to a surprise for you because you have selective understanding, but I am supporting your belief in preserving black families and black love. Also, I am not challenging your research just your interpretation of what you may have read or have been told. My main point that I am laboring for you to comprehend is that the character Olivia Pope personifies power, which is something I feel a lot of our beautiful black women are struggling to possess. If you were able to really break down our society’s social hierarchy, and see how we are ranked in society maybe you would be able to understand my point of view. What I am realizing, while I am reading these different exchanges is that we, as a community, have a big communication problem. Apparently the plight of the black woman in today’s society is totally imaginary to you, but the plight of the black male will always be our burden. Despite the horrible, degrading, hateful things you say about young black women today, I would never fix my mouth to downgrade all black men like you are doing black women. I just want you to hear the cries for help with some of these women who feel disenfranchised and neglected. Think outside the box, go against the grain take these sorry mother’s who use child support as a secondary income, women who objectify themselves to keep up with the kardashiahs, and females who blame their problems on missing fathers as a crutch. My father was not present in my life as much as I wish he was, and I know he did his best and I don’t hate him and I know a lot of great black men who love great black women. I understand your disappointment and your disdain for the image that the characters portray, but it is our privilege to promote one another, to empower one another, so “others” won’t have to. This is the broken ideology in our community that needs to be repaired. I know that you are being defensive and joking around because you feel like today’s black women are dismissing our black men by supporting this show, but the two do not correlate. It’s really sad that there is so much self – hatred in these arguments because we aren’t trying to understand where each person is coming from. I also want you to think of how that show makes you feel next time you read comments like “Black girls are ugly, played out, tired, these ignorant expletives that you see on twitter, facebook, tumblr, contribue to speak against it, and you will contribute to the solution not enhance the problem, and my beautiful black women please continue to do the same…encourage one another and discourage degrading one another….that’s the real issues that fuels this petty argument!

  • C2

    I understand you’re point a little. But I’m sorry, I can’t support the ratchetness. I can’t jump on the “Olivia Pope is role model” band wagon. I’ve been unplugged from the Matrix and I’m not going back. You talk about power, but why do Black women have to look up to a fictional character (whose claim to fame is being a side piece), a reality show star or some chick that can’t perform one show without twerking. It’s sad, but if Kerry Washington was playing a detective or mayor (power) happily married to a black man -black women would not watch it. It would be off the air in two weeks no matter how good the writing was.
    I understand the plight of black women, but I also understand the plight of black people as a whole. Let’s be honest, Black women are 90 % at fault for for rift between us – Opera, The “Black man ain’t S***” campaign, movies and books such as the Color Purple, Child Support, Welfare programs that require no man at home, the downlow myth, etc. Black women have been throwing black men under the bus with the help of white people for years. But now they want to play the victim since Black men are using the Internet to tell their sides of the story and how Eve (the black women) bit the apple (independence/feminism) in the garden (the black community before the 1970s)
    But it’s hard not to call the BS out that you mentioned. I’ve been called selfish because I refuse to date women with 2,3,4,5 kids. But that’s what you get with the majority of black women. Since I grew up with both my biological parents (still married after 38 years) – that’s weird to me. And when you do give one a chance they don’t know how to date a good man because they’re so used to deadbeats. It’s like the Twilight Zone to them when they date a man with his stuff together and no kids.
    No one said Black Women are not beautiful. I think they are the best on the planet. But the attitude (that only black men have to put up with), daddy issues and the funky weave make them unattractive. It’s like they don’t embrace their black beauty. If I wanted a woman with stringy flowing hair, I’ll date a white one. What’s up with the fake hair? How are Black men supposed to embrace the beauty of their women, when they’re trying to look like someone else? When we see a show like Scandal and the response it receives we’re thinking “Damn, are black women’s self-esteem so low that they take pride in being the side piece to a powerful white man?”
    To me it’s no different than a video ho in a black rapper’s video. Pope is just more classy with it. When the lights go off in the bedroom it’s all the same.

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