Courtship Might Be Dying or it’s at least in ICU

by Alisha Tillery

courtship

“I blame Steve Jobs and the invention of the smartphone!” That’s what my dear friend, E, shouted as we discussed the latest in my personal life during Scandal’s commercial break. I’d shared with her that a new guy, whom I’d named the “Texting King,” had fallen into the Black Hole of Dating after one too many iMessage exchanges without phone calls or dates. The last thing I need is a text buddy.

“Technology has killed courting (or as my mama would call it, “coatin’”), Alisha,” E said, “It’s not the same, and you need to write about it.” I took her up on the offer, but Alex Williams, New York Times writer, beat me to the punch (Ah, the struggle of writing in an online world).  In yesterday’s edition, he wrote, “The End of Courtship?,” which took a deep dive into the slow demise of traditional courting and dating through the eyes of millennials. Mr. Williams, you obviously know my life, except I’m not a millennial anymore.

Professional twenty-somethings, mostly women, gave their perspective on dating, suggesting that the days of “dinner and a movie” are long gone. They’re receiving invitations to “hang out,” rather than go on a date … and via text message and tweets.  He writes:

“It’s one step below a date, and one step above a high-five,” she added. Dinner at a romantic new bistro? Forget it. Women in their 20s these days are lucky to get a last-minute text to tag along. Raised in the age of so-called “hookup culture,” millennials — who are reaching an age where they are starting to think about settling down — are subverting the rules of courtship.”

How dreadful. Thankfully, I’m fortunate, and apparently, old enough to have grown up in an era where real dates are normal. I’ve been on a range of dates: to the movies, dinner, outdoor concerts, out to shoot pool, long walks, etc.. They were formal, planned, and carefully thought out and some were spontaneous. As we become more inundated with technology, however, I’ve also come across some men whose idea of getting know you is engaging in heavy text conversation ONLY to delay spending real-time. When and how did that happen?

In my mind, too much e-communication in the beginning of any ‘ship is a no-no. That text you send me in the middle of the work day meant to be funny and sweet means nothing when I don’t know you well enough to know your humor or “get you.” It can cause confusion and sometimes “LOL” isn’t a cure-all.

After finishing Williams’ story, I had to answer his question. Is courtship dead? No, and neither gender “killed” it. We both play important roles in what we attempt to deem as appropriate in courting and what we are willing to accept.

What courtship is, though, is lazy, lacking creativity, and afraid.

We’re hanging out, instead of dating because “hanging” sounds less intimidating, as if a first date is a marriage proposal, instead of a starting point. We’re shocked when “hanging out” leads us to the Friend Zone. We haven’t seen people in our lives date properly. Real dates only happen on TV. We think that knowing someone via social media is the same as knowing who they really are, so we dismiss the value of face-to-face interaction. We are too busy, supposedly. We don’t have enough time to spend even an hour to have a meaningful conversation with someone we’re interested in.

We’re afraid of rejection and would die on the spot if a request for a date was denied over the phone, so a crummy text will have to do. We don’t want to come off as “thirsty” when we suggest to guys the proper way to initiate, so we text back, “Sure, what time?” We think courtship and deep pockets are one in the same. We’d rather have expensive dinners where we check our phones constantly than quiet time at a coffee shop or bookstore. No way he’s spending a heap of money on you when he doesn’t even know if he really likes you. Yes, it costs to date seriously, but we forget that getting to know someone is priceless.

So considering all of that, we’ve all got some work to do, internally even. While every person does not partake in this new culture, it’s very easy to unknowingly follow suit. Dating shouldn’t become the floppy disk of relationships. If you’re uncomfortable with something, speak up for change. And if change doesn’t transpire, there’s always that “moving on” thing.

  • Smilez_920

    Simple: to me while courtship is changing it hasn’t died. People ( especially women) stop sticking to their standards . Most men who approach you in life just want to get in your pants, so all this courting your expecting from them , isn’t going to happen, they’ll just text never call etc… The men who are really interested will make an effort even if their not phone people. Most of the issues I hear from women about ” weird” communications/ lazy courting techniques ; usually their dealing with men who just aren’t that into them, but still want to get something out of them.

    As far as creativity goes, everybody’s so busy trying to express strangers and twitter followers that they think a guy taking them out to lunch or to grab a cup of coffee is unexceptable and every date should be 200 plus at a resturant some rapper named in a song.

  • http://gravatar.com/sydnielianamosley sydnielianamosleySydnie

    I thought that this NYTimes piece was horrible. And no – it’s not that this is not your life because you might be a little older. It’s not the life for all millennials either. The piece is written as if women are something that dating and courtship just happens to. Like we have no role in how we are treated. If a guy doesn’t treat me the way I like, I tell him how I like to be treated. If he still doesn’t comply, then I’m done. On to the next.

    What’s worse is that the show cites GIRLS, and those couple of random professional women as its only sources. While I think GIRLS is a great show, I’m so perturbed that it is being received as the cultural norm for 20something women. Dunham’s show reveals one set of experiences — not ALL the experiences.

  • Curls&Swirls

    Speak the truth, shame the devil lol It’s sad because the bare minimum seems to be what is excepted and expected in today’s society…especially in the dating arena. I find that sometimes there are men with a sense of entitlement and that their presence alone should be sufficient enough for a woman….uhmmm no. “We’re hanging out, instead of dating because “hanging” sounds less intimidating, as if a first date is a marriage proposal, instead of a starting point.” Very true. I call this generation the “gimmie” generation because so many people want specific things but don’t want to work to get it…

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    I blame the economy.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    On second thought texting is not a bad idea. Consider it a pre date, date. A way of getting to a person and feel them out before you go out on a date. A step in the courtship process not meant to replace a date but to see if it is worth continuing the process. No one like their time or wasted.

  • Smilez_920

    1) in 2013 can we please stop saying technology killed courting. Men who really are interested in your court, men who aren’t don’t .

    2) what technology has done is give some women who won’t accept that he’s not into her , hope. I get it texted you 3 smiley faces in a row even though he hasn’t returned your phone call in two weeks, it must be love -_- . Just because you follow him on twitter and fb doesn’t mean you know him, so be easy.

  • Sasha

    I don’t think courtship is dead. I am of the belief that both men and women need to raise their standards. Do not accept texting as the primary means of communication in the beginning stages of ANY relationship, friendship or romantic. I understand people may be busier than others but if someone REALLY likes you, they will take the time to call you or invite you out. My boyfriend is an auditor and pretty busy during the day however I’m a chatty person so he’ll text me when he has a moment and we talk on the phone every single night. Personally, at the root of this issue isn’t technology, fear of rejection or the hook up culture but instead is laziness. I truly believe that guys (not all but some and the some I’m speaking of are from personal experience) can sniff out when women have low standards or are desperate and will act accordingly based on how interested they are in you.

  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com Val

    You get what you accept. If you accept an invite to just ‘hangout’, then that’s what you’re going to get. If you only accept invites to go on formal dates, then that’s what you’ll get.

  • ImJustSaying

    I had an initial text relationship with my current boyfriend but when he asked me if I would like to get together on that weekend. I responded “sure what do you have in mind?” He said that kind of surprised him but he liked that i expected him to have a plan. Before I met him I had already decided I would no longer accept “want to hang out?” invitations. Changes your dating pool significantly for the better (well most of the time I did have some stories)

  • http://alishawritinglife.wordpress.com Alisha

    Thanks for reading! I agree with you. I didn’t like the GIRLS reference, as I’m much older than the characters. I watch the show faithfully, but I don’t think this is the case for every young woman or young man.

  • http://chennadoll.tumblr.com pinklipstick227

    I agree. The article should be re-titled “Thirsty Women Ruined Courting for Themselves.”

  • TammIam

    I have friends who will text and play on the phone with guys for months at a time. I tell them if he doesn’t set up a date in the first 1-2 weeks of y’all meeting cancel him. Good job with this article!

  • Kay

    I remember an associate of mine told me that she had NEVER been on a date where a guy paid for dinner and they went out somewhere besides his house. *smdh* If guys are getting it easy, they aren’t going to work for it. And it’s not the economy either. Back in college, guys who didn’t have money might have taken me to the art museum (usually they only ask for a “donation”) or some free show on campus and we’d go to a nice little cafe that didn’t cost a lot. I remember one guy worked for the campus radio station and actually got his hands onto some backstage passes because he knew a guy, and I got to meet Common. After that we went ice skating (and it was cheap!). People can be broke but be creative.

  • http://gravatar.com/chloerayne516 GirlSixx

    Wow!! Maybe I need Iyanla (sp?) to “Fix My Life” *lol* because I honestly don’t have a problem with “texting” as per communication, I actually prefer it 90% of the time because I HATE HATE talking on the phone especially after a long day of work which entails heavy phones on some days, When I meet a guy after exchanging numbers I let him know that I am a “text fiend”, getting me on the actual phone is hard alot of times, I am like this with everybody (including family members). It’s funny because men are the ones who usually complain about how they rather hear my voice than read a bunch of words. Go Figure!!! *lol* Everyone has their preference/standards (whatever they may be) if those are YOUR requirements So be it. Just because you may choose a less conventional way does not mean that person MAY NOT BE THAT INTO YOU, even though you may communicate mainly via text messages if his words AND actions are still aligning… YOU GOOD!!! If you want to hear his voice then pick up the phone and CALL.

  • JaeBee

    Why not call instead? Hearing someone speak is probably much more helpful in terms of making a decision about whether it’s “worth it” to continue on in the process of getting to know someone.

  • http://gravatar.com/pinkslehuit pinkslehuit

    Right, because women are to blame for everything. BOTH sexes need to step it up!

  • AnnT

    A round of applause for this!

  • http://chennadoll.tumblr.com pinklipstick227

    No, because parched women are willing to accept undesirable behavior from men. Most heterosexual men are willing to do whatever it takes to be with the women they truly desire.

    Not all women are parched but extra-thirsty women do exist.

  • Smilez_920

    @pink.
    1) it’s not a blame game and while both sexes have issues , it seems when it comes to courting women are ended up with the short end of the stick.

    2) I think once women understand that a man ignore or being wish washy with you , isn’t him being secretly into and not being able to express it, there is not super secret code , he’s probably not that interested in you. That doesn’t make you a bad woman or catch, just need to move on and ignore the jerk.

    3) I don’t think women who end up these situation are thirsty , just misguided .

  • Blue

    I kinda feel that those women who prefer texting as their main source of communication when it comes to “courting” are selling themselves short. Sometimes a text can be misread or it also gives the person a chance to think before the text an answer (especially if there is a lie involved) I want to get to know the guy before I agree to a date. And if a guy prefer to text 24/7 & only wants to “hang out”? Boy please….that’s when I stop replying to messages & move on to the next one. I will not waste my time. What one won’t do another one will. Set your standards & stick to them.

  • Cocochanel31

    People do what you allow. If you don’t want to text or like texting, tell him and keep it moving. I don’t like a bunch of meaningless phone convo either, but if I’m feeling you I will make exceptions.

  • Cocochanel31

    Im with you at GirlSixx…I hate talking on the phone, even to girflfriends. My mother is the only one I like talking to ,everyone else getting a text.

  • GirlSixx

    I never encountered any problems due to I prefer “texting” over phone coversations… When a phone conversation needed to be had – it was had, but there was no need to have phone conversations everytime. At the end of the day if his actions AND words (whether via phone or text) are in alignment, there shouldn’t be any problem. *shrug* It’s not for everybody, but this is perfect for me. I prefer to text.

  • http://www.lorrikey.com LorriK

    I was just talking about this with a female coworker and here’s the deal. A man knows when he wants something how to pick up the phone and ask. We set the tone for how people communicate with us every day. Even have friends who I talk to less or miss out on activities and wonder why because they refuse to call. It’s not a healthy way to communicate ALL the time because too much can be lost in interpretation. “Texting” has it’s place but not as the major means in a courtship.

  • http://gravatar.com/chloerayne516 GirlSixx

    Exactlyyyyy… I think this is what alot of people seem to be missing here. People do what they wanna do at the end of the day and depending on how much that person likes you, you can become the EXCEPTION not THE RULE. I love to text but if I really like you I will make an exception..

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  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    Some people are not big on talking, there not bad people just not the type who engage in small talk. The conversation has to very structured and informing with an ending in sight.

  • GirlSixx

    Sorry to say this, but something in your associate screamed “JumpOff” and that is why she never got any out of the house (real) dates.. Could of been the way she carried herself when they first met or something she might have said…. but something she is projecting that men don’t feel the need to court her but just have her come over and chill..

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I prefer texting and messaging and I think people will get a much better feel for who I am through my writing than in person — at least initially. I lose all my normal trepidation and awkwardness when expressing myself in written form. I’m not comfortable enough with people I don’t know for my personality to come through with any real fidelity in a phone conversation. Besides, for the first few months you aren’t getting the real person; you are getting their representative. It takes a while to get to the crust of a MFer. If my objective is to get to know someone, hanging out is much more suited than more traditional dating. To each their own.

  • Ms Married

    Way to bite off the NY Times article and repurpose it as original.

  • EST. 1986

    I prefer texting. I tell people all the time that I do not like talking on the phone. Some people call me anyway and wonder why I never pick up.

  • binks

    LMAO…I totally agree with you and pinklipstick227! If a man wants to court you, wine and dine you, and be in communication with you if he likes you then HE will. If he doesn’t than he doesn’t, I swear these days to many women are accepting any old thing and ignoring MAJOR red flags. For example, my friend was supposed to have a date with this guy she met online but he didn’t show, she tried calling him and texting him but he didn’t answer until he text her back the next day saying something like “are you up for something today?…”thank god she had the sense to tell him off, it is not about the tools of communication per se but THE communication itself so no technology isn’t killing courting rituals but as other have said low standards are.

  • AnnT

    I’m not gonna thumb you down, because if it works for you, have at it, but are you on your phone in your avi?

  • EST. 1986

    You sound like someone who is reserved, maybe even shy.

    I don’t understand why you were thumbed down. I, too am better at expressing myself in written form than I am verbally.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    LOL, I guess I am on my phone. I hadn’t noticed that. I’m probably always on my phone or computer.

  • EST. 1986

    If a woman isn’t a wife or girlfriend then she becomes whatever new, derogatory slang that is popular. Why is that?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    naturally reserved with people I don’t know. It takes great effort for me to be myself around new people and usually I fail at it. Being in business school has forced me to get better at walking up to people and networking with strangers, but I still hate doing it.

    as far as the thumbs down, some people aren’t down with “to each their own”

    “Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.”

    –Albert Einstein

  • LemonNLime

    I HATE TEXTING. With. A. Passion. For a while I went along with that crap and then I dated a man (imo boys text, men call) and he would call a couple time a week and we would just chat for hours. Believe me, I hate talking on the phone but with him it wasn’t a chore. It was fun, I felt like I was in a 90′s TV show just laying on my bed at night and talking on the phone for hours.

    If he did write, it was 1. always in “letter” form (meaning multiple paragraphs, correct spelling and grammar, via e-mail) and 2. because he was out of the country. The only reason he would text me is to let me know how far away he was or when he would arrive. Ugh… those were the days…like 2 years ago.

    Now I won’t even deal with these yahoos who text and I let them know up front. Sure it is awkward getting to know someone but that is apart of courting or dating or whatever you call it. Look at old movies or talk to your grandparents, it was supposed to be awkward. That is how you get comfortable with each other. People are just so damn use to being able to look at a profile with all the answers, they don’t want to put in the effort to get to know people anymore. It is horrible.

  • Lois

    I think I’m younger than most commenters here, only 20, but a lot of my friends don’t really seem to recognize what dating is. I’ve been mistaken for dating guys whose relationships with me were completely unambiguous, because the standard for courtship is so low that regularly sharing breakfast – splitting the bill – or taking long walks, or even sitting together in class(!) with platonic friends seems to match.

    Being only 20 and still in college, I would expect my primary mode of communication with any guy I was considering dating to be face-to-face. I only really have telephone convos with people who don’t live near me. People who live close, I text to set things up with (or email, if I’m setting things up with, say, more than 3 friends together). If I were with a guy who had graduated and moved to say San Francisco or New York, short texts during the day would be more than welcome, but I would expect and indeed make long weekend and maybe weeknight phone calls. But I’ve also just never been big on texting.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    My grandparents married a few months after they first went out on a date. They already knew each other from college so there was no awkward getting to know each other stage.

  • AM

    Love this! I don’t know why you are getting downvoted. Oh well…..

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  • Candi83

    Exactly!! I’m not a pushy person but if you can’t even have a cup of coffee with me, one-on-one? I move on.

  • LemonNLime

    Yea but they didn’t always know each other. They had to get to know each other. There is always a getting to know someone stage, even just your friends.

  • LemonNLime

    Please, I don’t pay attention to these down votes!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    that’s the thing, they knew each other from college. It’s usually not awkward getting to know college classmates that aren’t romantic interests. They didn’t become involved until after they had graduated and were working together at a school.

    She actually just told me this whole story a couple months ago when I was over her house for Thanksgiving.

  • http://gravatar.com/nattynay nattynay

    At 22 I still reflect back on exchanging numbers ( in middle and high school), and eagerly waiting until school got out so I could talk to a crush on the phone, which would lead to a date to the mall or movies.

    Nowadays, everyone has become so impersonal to the point where a person should “feel lucky” if they even get a phone call from someone they’re interested in. Sad.

    Call me old-fashioned, but I appreciate direct contact.

    P.S.- Solely forming relationships via technology really isn’t best, just look at the people on Catfish.

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  • Christine

    Yeah I’m the same age, but I hate talking on the phone. (Like most people I know) I was just talking with my coworkers about this. None of us ever call people unless it’s our parents or an emergency. We all text or facebook message. Maybe we skype if it’s long distance. I think that’s really what’s caused an end to the concept of courtship. I have found myself talking with a person every single day so going on a date (when we’re both too broke to be going out to eat anyway) just seems like a waste of time. I also guess I feel like dating is more of a means to an end (that end being marriage) than I feel appropriate at this point in my life. Which, I think has some grounding in that’s what it was originally for, to find a life partner. I don’t really have time for to think about marriage. My parents had me while they were in law school and medical school and they kind of regret it seeing as they didn’t end up having a whole lot of time to spend with me. I don’t really want to do that to my kids. So the way I see it, I probably won’t be looking to settle down, and therefore consider seriously dating for at least another 4 or 5 years. Even then I might choose to take an extra 5 years to build my career first. I don’t know if it’s just technology, it’s the way people view relationships and where they fit into their life as well.

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  • http://Www.thebuzzklub.com Bintu Kabba

    WOW! What an excellent article. I have a talk-show for 20 something’s (www.thebuzzklub.com) and we will be discussing this on the 2nd season. I’m 25 years old and I had to halt dating for a while bc of this. I’m from an old school era where talking on the phone was the norm. You talked for at least 2 to 3 weeks and then went on a date. It would also give u time to assess whether or not the person was sane enough to meet. Courtship has also died because unfortunately we are on the cha cha cha chia generation. Everything is accelerated and standards are low on both women and men’s end. Sex, rather than intimacy is the goal. I decided to not have sex with my boyfriend yet but instead focus on the building and foundation and believe me, because he was so interested in getting to know me, he calls frequently and we have date nights at least one night a week!

  • AnnT

    You seem like an decent dude, all I can say is to not miss out on the ‘scenery’ because you’re looking down a lot.

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    Courting is something that is rarely done, going out on a date is not courting.
    Dating and courting are two different things to me, but dating can be a part of the courting process.
    If some dude places you in a category based on his perceptions(not reality btw) and chooses not to court you or date you, then you have the power to not engage this individual period.
    Courting by no means is the default and has not been for decades.
    People don’t even have basic manners in general these days, let alone the refined sensibilities to court a lady that is a rare rare thing.

  • Hmmmm

    Every time I see one of these articles or even the ones asking for thoughtless dates I can’t help but think back to a Dave Chappelle comedy special I saw and chuckle.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I feel you. I make it a point to never miss the scenery

  • http://gravatar.com/rastaman1967 rastaman

    I would have titled this article the “Death of Privilege”.

  • JaeBee

    Preach it! I hate texting as well…well at least holding conversations through text. To quote Sweet Brown, “ain’t nobody got time for (all) that!” I’m not a big phone person either, but I’d rather say what I gotta say through a 5-10 minute phone conversation than through an hour of back and forth texting.

    If you’re a shy person who’s not too big on the small chit chat that necessary for networking and building relationships with others, what better way to practice/build those skills than by forcing yourself to engage in conversation whether in person or on the phone?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    The better way would be to only deal with women that don’t mind communicating through writing. Everyone can choose to do something they hate or choose not to do it and find people that will accommodate them. If you stick with guys that also prefer not to text and I stick with girls that don’t like talking on the phone, then we all win.

  • http://gravatar.com/missmarcie MISS MARCIE

    So glad you wrote this article. This is #thetruth.com

  • JaeBee

    Ravi, I can see you took my comment personally though I wasn’t directing it at you. That said, you should thank your lucky stars that you were born in the era in which you were. How would you have ever scored a date/had a girlfriend in the millions of years prior to the advent of cellphones and texting?!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I didn’t take it personally at all. I was just answering your question.

    Dating as we know it is a relatively recent phenomenon, as is women having the freedom and independence that contemporary women now enjoy. I think we are both pretty lucky to be born in the era that we are in.

    As far as what I would have done, it depends on the era. For example, a couple hundred years ago (presuming I’m not a slave and have comparable education and means) I would probably court someone that I already know. Likely a family friend. Finding a mate didn’t exactly consist of walking up to strangers at a bar and asking for their phone numbers followed by awkward phone conversations. My writing abilities would likely serve me well as written letters were the primary mode of correspondence in the early 19th century. The point is, I probably would have fared about the same as I do now.

  • Bait debate

    Seems to me that courtship, as I understand it, died circa 1970, giving birth to dating. Courtship was a custom that involved the couple, the parents of the couple and the community. That’s not how the mating game is played today, indeed not since Queen Victoria was on the throne.

    RME!

    I’ve never met anyone younger than 70 who did or does courtship. So when people below that age use the term, I know they either don’t know what they’re talking about or are trying to score some gender war point.

    A date, liaison, relationship – happens how it happens. If you don’t like how it happens, that’s your business, but you’re not going to have many options when the trend you’re trying to buck has taken root eveywhere.

    So try to resist all you want but all you’ll get is left out and left behind. The old ways are over and done, get with it or . . . .

    :-) .

  • Whatever

    I was a bit shocked by that as well since I just read the Times article yesterday.

  • Rochelle

    So Ravi, you don’t want to talk to a woman because of anxiety. You don’t want to chase a woman (as you said in another post). Do you even like to go out? If you don’t want to chase/pursue a woman, talk with her on the phone etc…… What is left?. You either have never found anyone of interest to you or you are incredibly lazy when it comes to getting to know people. You have to make yourself somewhat uncomfortable to get the things you want out of life. That is the way it has always been, You want to be a business man, but you don’t want to talk to people? Good luck:) LOL.

  • Rochelle

    What;s the the point of this story ravi. Do you just like sharing pointless stories? Maybe you should wrtie a book.

  • Rochelle

    What if your family has no friends? Not everyone knows people in their circle that they find attractive enough to date. i know I don’t. LOL. if I just had to pick from the people that I casually meet in my circle I would be screwed and alone forever. I guess people are not as picky as me. What are the chances of you running into a person you are attracted to. I guess for guys its easier. I know it is slim to nill for me. Especially in social circles. Meetin strangers is much better for me. I tell them from the jump don’t text me. So yes it works out. To each is own.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    That’s how it was commonly done 200 hundred years ago. That was the context of my statement. The question was what I would have done prior to cell phones in a different era.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I didn’t say I didn’t want to talk to a woman. I said I prefer not talking on the phone to get to know someone. You know, what the article was about. Chasing/pursuing women isn’t a requirement in going out. Many adults are capable of reciprocity and mutually coming together. I find plenty of women that interest me and I don’t need to chase them in order to go out. Chasing/pursuing connotes one-sided effort. If we are both interested then we just come together without any chase. Not wanting to chase isn’t lazy; insisting that someone chases you is being incredibly lazy. Unless you are out there chasing guys, then your entire line of reasoning falls flat. If you don’t have to chase guys to get the things you want out of life then I don’t need to chase either. Many women I come across don’t require me to chase them and have no problem not using the telephone to communicate initially. Thankfully, every woman doesn’t think like you.

    I’ve been getting what I want out of life doing it the way I do. There is more than one way to go about doing things to get what you want out of life. That is the way it has always been. And you are mistaken — I AM a business man and I never said I don’t want to talk to people. I said I don’t like talking to people I don’t know. Despite that, I’ve been a business man since grade school, I go to both a top ten business and law school, and I just got hired at a pretty major consulting firm. No need for luck when you have talent, proper preparation, and a resume like mine. Good luck to you ;)

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    unlike your comment, my story wasn’t pointless. It was a legitimate response to the comment directly above. In that comment she stated: “Look at old movies or talk to your grandparents, it was supposed to be awkward. That is how you get comfortable with each other.”

    I was responding that I had talked to my grandmother and it wasn’t awkward for her and my grandfather. That would be what we call, in the land of logic and reason, a point. What was yours again? Maybe you should read a book. I suggest this one:

    http://www.amazon.com/Being-Logical-Guide-Good-Thinking/dp/0812971159/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1358340330&sr=8-2&keywords=logical+reasoning

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    That is what I said in my comment, that courting amounts to more than just going out on a date.
    The rest of your comment I give a side eye to because by not excepting lackadaisical half a$$ behavior, you are not left out or left behind but rather you are eliminating the folk who do not believe in making a true effort to get to know you both as a person and a woman if that is what you so desire, and that is the purpose of dating by the way to eliminate folks who ain’t the one.
    It’s not about privilege either but there seems to be a growing sense of entitlement and bare minimum effort among a certain sect out here which is really what this article is about.

  • Stanley

    Dating is dead. And we know who killed it.

  • Jae Bee

    Actually, courtship has become quite popular in some Christian fundamentalist sects. If anybody’s ever watched the TV show “19 Kids and Counting”, the Duggars practice courtship. Their first born son’s courtship and wedding was even featured on the show.

  • Jae Bee

    Ravi, although dating is relatively new (in comparison to arranged marriages and courtship) let’s not pretend like it’s brand new. If you we’re of marriageable age in the 50′s, 60′s, 70′s, 80′s and most of the 90′s you would not have the luxury of texting to develop a relationship with a potential partner. Sure you would have been able to write letters, but you know as well as I do that a hand written (lengthy) letter is different than a one line text. Texting would be the equivalent of writing a sentence on a scrap of paper and passing it along–similar to notes that people (used to?) pass when they were still in grade school. Even with doing that though, I don’t see how one is able to develop and maintain a relationship with someone who you don’t even speak to (literally).

  • http://twitter.com/xDecadent Nikki on DEC (@xDecadent)

    A pre date, date? Some people don’t like to talk on the phone? That type of attitude is part of the problem. Texting can never replace real conversation. Ever. I’m not about to sit and tell you my whole life story in a text message because you’re “not a phone person”. Thats some fragganackle bullshyt. Sorry. Too many things get lost in translation. Especially when you’re first making someones acquaintance.

    The problem is people do not want to take 20 minutes on the phone to have a conversation. Nor do they want to spend 2 hours on a date getting to know someone. Its lazy and its really annoying when you’re out there trying to meet someone you have a connection with.

  • Cocochanel31

    I agree Jae Bee..true Christian dating should be Courtship.. There are a series of books on the topic, one being, ” The Day I Kissed Dating Good-bye”

  • Bait debate

    “The rest of your comment I give a side eye to because by not excepting lackadaisical half a$$ behavior”

    Ok if you say so, but my guess is that you have about much chance of finding men who will pander to your “courtship” demands as most men have of finding women who offer the women’s side of the courtship package – oh say like virginity and exclusivity.

    Things dun changed mam, men have had to learn to accept that they can no longer demand that women meet unreasonable standards, so women too must learn to accept that they cannot impose unreasonable standards on men. If women are no longer held to traditional courtship standards that releases men from the obligation to honor them.

    And you don’t get to decide what a reasonable standard is unless you’re the one taking all the risks (of rejection) involved in initiating and making all the moves to organize the date and spending the money to pay for it.

    Shaming language like “by not excepting lackadaisical half a$$ behavior” only gets ya a bad rep, which will only attract the types who go for bad rep women :-)

    Once they’re through with ya, no doubt you’ll transition seamlessly into “where are all the good men?”

  • Kema

    Hah! ‘Privilege’ is alive and well for some of us.

  • Stanley

    It’s not problem to ask for a certain things. But when a woman has been single for years without ever meeting a man who can give her what she’s asking for, it’s only natural that she starts asking for less.

    Making the dating process a TRADE only creates desperation when anyone cannot find a buyer their asking price. This means, if a woman wants a man (i.e.) to ask her out the old fashion way (which is good by the way) and she never found one to do it, she’ll be desperate very soon because the next step would be to lower her standards. You’re only going to sell anything when the buyer accepts the price for the product.

    Now, find a man that can make the effort (or pay the price) to be with you. If you can’t, have you ever thought that you might not worth that much work?

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    No one is say that texting should replace conversation or dating just a new first step in this tech age of ours in getting to some one if it advances you have a real interest if it does not than you saved time and money.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    That sounds like slut shaming to me!

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    Its not what they accept its what they want. Not all woman want to through the patriarchal courting rituals, some of them are go getters.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I never said it was brand new, but you were talking about the history of courting as if phone calls were the norm throughout history. Writing letters has been the norm for much longer. And who said anything about one line of text? Or even that it was limited to typing on the phone. I type volumes of text in my correspondence, usually using my laptop. My conversations often consist of thousands of words. I write much more conversing through my computer than anyone reasonably could do using a pencil and paper. Moreover, the conversations are real time. Hand written letters are limited to primarily one-way information exchanges. I can have real-time conversations using my keyboard. and even when I do use my phone, I still don’t write one line of text. Any given text conversation could consist of dozens of discrete texts each consisting of a sentence or two.

    I also didn’t say anything about maintaining a relationship through writing. Of course there needs to be time spent together in person at some point, ideally. I’ve been saying from the first comment that I was talking about getting to know someone AT FIRST. Not that written text would be the norm of communication for maintaining a relationship. That being said, when dating someone long distance, written text is my primary mode of communication and I do not find it at all lacking.

    You don’t need to see why or how using written words as a primary form of communication works just fine. That isn’t your preference. I’m saying it works fine for ME to get to know someone. If that’s not how you get down, then more power to you. You do what works for you as I do what works for me.

  • JaeBee

    “you were talking about the history of courting as if phone calls were the norm throughout history.”

    Ravi, I feel that you are reading “what you want to see” due to your own insecurities with spoken communication. If you re-read my posts you will see that I NEVER said that phone calls were the norm throughout history; however, spoken communication (whether that be in person or on phone) has been . Written communication has been a norm as well (though it hasn’t been around as long as spoken), but texting is no where equivalent to the written communication that people engaged in back in the day. I feel that letters are more personal than texting, but that’s just my opinion and I’m not trying to force it on you.

    “I also didn’t say anything about maintaining a relationship through writing.”

    Once again, you’re reading what you want to see (and in this case focusing on a minute statement). If you go back and re-read my posts you will see that I primarily spoke to “developing” relationships through texting.

    “You do what works for you as I do what works for me.”

    Agreed.

  • EST. 1986

    “If you’re a shy person who’s not too big on the small chit chat that necessary for networking and building relationships with others, what better way to practice/build those skills than by forcing yourself to engage in conversation whether in person or on the phone?”

    As someone who can be shy and is an introvert, having to force myself to try and fit what other people think is right when it is just a difference in personality, never works out well.

  • Stanley

    “Not wanting to chase isn’t lazy; Insisting that someone chases you is incredibly lazy.” That is pretty much all this is about.

    Women think just being a woman is all the work they have to do to get the men they want. No way! Not anymore! If relationship is Mount Everest, women have to climb it and meet men at the top of it. There’s a lot of failure in trying to carry women on our back to the top of the mountain.

  • Rochelle

    Thank you for you life story Ravi, but it was not needed. I am surprised men think like you and actually get dates. Men chase women. That is the way it has always been. Women like to be chased and pursued. That is the way it has always been. So you are saying you would pass up on a beautiful fun loving woman who is a ten on your scale if she didn’t intiate interest/contact?? That makes no sense and reeks of a man with low self esteem.

    A man with high self confidence would go right up to a woman he doesnt know and he finds attractive to see if she has any interest. If she didn’t no biggie, on to the next prospect. Nothing lost or gained. That man’s self confidence should still be intact unless hes a little B-I. Or should he be like what you are suggesting and say, “well I don’t know if she likes me so I might as well not try to get at her.” That is not the move. That stranger could be your future wife. You are limiting yourself. Plus the first thing a father need to teach his son is that he should get used to rejection form women and that finding “the one” is a numbers game.

    I hope you dont teach your daughter or future daughter that she should not expect a man to pursue her. That is not what you need to tell a little black girl. We have enough baby mamas chasing no good deadbeats that werent into them in the first place.

  • Rochelle

    Ravi sound like a lazy elitist that wants women to come to him. I dislike with Ravi’s mindset. If no one wanted to listen or read Ravi’s life stories, he would probably get very upset.

  • Rochelle

    @Ravi Thank you for you life story Ravi, but it was not needed. I am surprised men think like you and actually get dates. Men chase women. That is the way it has always been. Women like to be chased and pursued. That is the way it has always been. So you are saying you would pass up on a beautiful fun loving woman who is a ten on your scale if she didn’t intiate interest/contact?? That makes no sense and reeks of a man with low self esteem.

    A man with high self confidence would go right up to a woman he doesnt know and he finds attractive to see if she has any interest. If she didn’t no biggie, on to the next prospect. Nothing lost or gained. That man’s self confidence should still be intact unless hes a little B-I. Or should he be like what you are suggesting and say, “well I don’t know if she likes me so I might as well not try to get at her.” That is not the move. That stranger could be your future wife. You are limiting yourself. Plus the first thing a father need to teach his son is that he should get used to rejection form women and that finding “the one” is a numbers game.

    I hope you dont teach your daughter or future daughter that she should not expect a man to pursue her. That is not what you need to tell a little black girl. We have enough baby mamas chasing no good deadbeats that werent into them in the first place.

  • Simba Che

    I agree with this article %100 percent. Not only dating but social interactions have been affected by technology as a whole. I am a ‘old mans baby” so I know all about courting but choose not to do it, but it really is no point nowadays. Our culture has vastly change and the rules of enagement has changed along with it. All is fair in love and war, that being said I adapted to my surrounding’s to survive in this dating game. One pet peeve I won’t tolerate though is when I take a female out her face constantly glows because she can’t take her off her phone. She is either taking picture’s of her food uploading on instrgram. Updating her twitter..”I just farted, what should I do if my date smells it #embarrising or scrolling thru Facebook and liking everybodies statuses and commenting on Baby JuJu’s pic. That right there is an immediate first class trip back to your front doorstep, and I’m not even going to wait till you get in the house

  • Semaj

    Dating is a thing of the past, you can text a person for day’s before even going out with them. I know guys that all they did was text the female, call her before they go out and put her to bed that night so why not?

  • Simba Che

    Not only dating but social interactions on a whole have been affected by technology. I am a old man’s baby so I so all about courting, I jsut chose not to do it. I don’t see it’s validity at this time. Our culture has vastly change as well as the rules of enagement. They say all is fair in love and war, so I adapt to survive in this dating game. Now my pet peeve I won’t tolerate is one I take a young lady out the entire we are out her face is glowing. Glowing because she can’t life her head up that is buried in her screen. She is either taking pictures of her drink or food and uploading to Instagram. She is updating her Twitter, I just farted what If my date smells it #embarrising or she is scrolling thru Facebook liking everybody status, and commenting on lil boo boo’s picture. That right there is a first class trip back to your door step, and I won’t even wait till you get in the door!

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    What life story? what are you even talking about? I wrote a couple sentences about my grandmother. If anything, that would be her life story, not mine. Judging by how quickly you got personal, you sound upset. Is it really that upsetting to know that not every person thinks of dating and relationships like you.

    “I am surprised men think like you and actually get dates. Men chase women. That is the way it has always been. Women like to be chased and pursued. That is the way it has always been. So you are saying you would pass up on a beautiful fun loving woman who is a ten on your scale if she didn’t intiate interest/contact?? That makes no sense and reeks of a man with low self esteem.”

    It only surprises you because you think that most men and women are like you describe. All men don’t chase and all women don’t want to be chased. If you are claiming that you don’t know women that chase men, then you are either lying or don’t know very many people. I have enough friends in the NFL to know for a fact that plenty of women chase after men. Men and women aren’t all the same. Some chase, some get pursued, and some do neither. You don’t have to chase or pursue to end up together with someone. Those aren’t the only two choices Captain Dichotomy.

    I’ve passed up many 10s that didn’t initiate or show interest. It makes plenty of sense if you understand anything about men and women. Plenty of us are risk averse, which is not the same as low self esteem. and plenty of 10s don’t require you to chase them. I don’t chase 10s the same reason most women don’t chase guys — I don’t need to, and I don’t like rejection. Why do something you don’t want to do if you don’t actually have to do it. I’ve dated many 10s, and I didn’t have to chase any of them. Your head is too far up the azz of gender roles and patriarchy to see that I’m not doing anything different than what you are.

    A man isn’t likely stepping to anyone that he doesn’t already know is interested if he doesn’t like rejection. The very idea that all men would behave the same in such a situation just shows that you don’t know much about human behavior. Very few people enjoy getting rejected, so why do it if you don’t have to? You would actually have somewhat of a point if in order to date, a man HAD to pursue. But we don’t. There are enough women out there that aren’t anything like you, that you just come off as a bitter, lazy, spoiled brat that is throwing a tantrum because there is someone out there with the audacity to assert that maybe he doesn’t have to go chasing women to get dates.

    ““well I don’t know if she likes me so I might as well not try to get at her.” That is not the move. That stranger could be your future wife. You are limiting yourself. Plus the first thing a father need to teach his son is that he should get used to rejection form women and that finding “the one” is a numbers game.”

    But isn’t that what you do? That guy you pass up because he isn’t approaching you could have been your soul mate. But because you were to much of a hypocrite to practice what you preach, you passed up on your soul mate. You are limiting yourself to men that will actively pursue you. That is far more limiting than what I do. I limit myself to progressive, intelligent women that don’t make me chase after them like we are cavemen. I like my women less shaped by patriarchy and less trapped in archaic gender roles — I’m funny like that. Good thing I’m constantly running into women that aren’t like you. It’s good to be back in college.

    My father was too busy teaching me to read and play chess by age 3 and the art of argumentation to bother to teach me anything about the need to endure the rejection of women. Unlike your parents, mine taught me to think for myself. Similarly, I’ll teach my daughter to think for herself and not let herself be trapped in a role conceived in gender oppression and continued by people too lacking in consciousness to know what’s going on. You can teach your daughter to wait on a man, because that’s what she’s supposed to do. I’ll teach my daughter to do what works for her.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    Pot, kettle. Lazy elitist isn’t refusing to chase. Lazy elitist is calling someone a lazy elitist for not chasing, while not doing any chasing themselves. That also makes you a hypocrite. If I’m lazy for not chasing, what does that make you when you don’t chase either. Not only don’t you chase, but you won’t even deal with a guy unless he chases you. So basically, you sit on your butt and do nothing while men do all the work of initiating and chasing you, then have the nerve to say someone is lazy. Got you.

    You seem to be the only one getting upset. The very thought of someone thinking differently than you is probably infuriating. How dare I think for myself. Maybe you are upset because you know there are quite a few people with my mindset and it threatens your ability to sit around and do nothing. Maybe if too many guys stop chasing, you will have to get off your lazy butt and do some work for once. You mad, huh?

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    You are assuming a whole lot about me and my standards etc.
    Also the lil tidbit about shaming language and attraction in reference to what I actually said is beyond ridiculous but you have a great day :-)

  • Wanda

    Courting dies many decades ago, when having sex unfortunately became THE most important aspect to a relationship.

    Courting WAS the preliminary time before engagement, then marriage, then children, etc.

    That way of life is now deemed “too traditional,” “old school,” “sexist,” “waste of time.”

    So now we have the younger generation that can barely talk to one other through their little devices.

    I guess y’all will find your spouses on Twitter or Instagram.

    Nothing like progress.

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    You assume quite a bit about me and my standards :-) also that lil jewel about what you labeled so called shaming language and a bad rep is way off base but you a wonderful one :-)

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    Let my response post please, thank you!

  • PasstheDankPlease

    I wouldn’t say courtship is dead, but that bissh is definitely in ICU. I’m glad I figured out the game young. I can spot these dudes from a mile away now(Thank-you to my exes! LOL)There are tons of lazy basic dudes on the scene now a days, but it comes down to having standards and knowing what you won’t put up with. I don’t do the “come over and chill thing” or “i don’t call I only text” thing. In my experience the majority of the men I’ve dated that only text are emotionally unavailable.I know that some men who only text are emotionally available, but the connection is definitely lacking. A while ago I was talking to like 4 dudes, and only 1 of them made the effort to call. Who do you think I built the strongest connection with? A phone call is much more intimate than texting back and forth. Men who actually know how to date and be creative with it are severely lacking, but they are out there. The dude I was talking about ^ was fine, sane, nice, and wanted a monogamous relationship. It’s hard work weeding through the basics, but once you cross over you won’t go back lol.

  • http://amourandapparel.com Missy

    I wrote a post called “Smartphones Killed Dating” on my blog a few months ago. In it, I talked about the guys who never call, texting ad nauseum, and asking for pictures before they learn anything about me. Since then, I’ve made a point to tell guys that I prefer calls to texts when I give them my number and you know what? Many of them said they did too. The ones who were used to texting, well, they’ve called too. If you set a standard, guys who are truly interested in you will rise up to meet it.

  • Honest

    Smartphones didn’t kill dating, Men just got smart and saw low value women for what they were.

    Price discrimination will not be tolerated

  • Rochelle.

    Ravi, you are a lazy lazy man that wants a woman to chase you. That is sad. Again, you don’t need to tell me your story or list your accomplishments. I know people just like you. Your story is not important. What is important is you coming to terms with knowing that anything you want in life, you have to chase. Be it a woman, money, a career, etc. If you fear rejection/failure, you will never take risk. Don’t be a safe loser. Take risk in love and life. I am scared for you because you say you want to be a businessman but you seem to lack basic people skills. I am scared you might kill yourself if you fail at anything. People like you often do. I don’t want that to happen to you. If you tell me your location, I can give you a professional that can help you with your low self image. i know many counselors throughout the states. Do not worry, many blk men think just like you. So give me your info and I will provide a counselor that I know in your area. You can thank me later.

  • Rochelle

    Oh and Ravi. Women chase after musclehead NFL players because they have money and fame. You most likely have neither. Therefore, you should not expect a decent woman to chase you or you will be alone for a looonnnnng time. I don’t want you to get used to those RedBox nights, so take my advise:)

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I never said why they were chasing, I just said that you were lying if you were claiming women don’t chase men. Clearly they do, and you know it. It doesn’t matter why they are chasing, the point is that they do.

    Regardless, I never said I expected a woman to chase me. I said that I wasn’t going to chase a woman. If you actually read what I wrote, you would know that no one needs to be chasing in order for people to come together. Sometimes it is completely mutual.

    As I said before, there are plenty of women that are nothing like you so I don’t really need to worry about being alone. As far as decent goes, I think we have very different ideas about what makes for a decent woman. You can keep your version of decent if it means blindly adhering to archaic gender roles. I like my women more progressive and independent. Besides, I tend not to take advice from people that don’t know how to spell it :)

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I’m starting to think you are a mentally lazy woman. It can’t be that hard to comprehend plain English. I never said I expect a woman to chase me. What is so difficult to understand? I also never told you my story. Are you just pretending to read what I write? Am I using too many big words for you? Really, what’s the deal?

    “What is important is you coming to terms with knowing that anything you want in life, you have to chase.”

    if you actually believed that, then you would be chasing men. Do you chase men? I didn’t think so. So your entire argument is completely full of ish. Don’t be an illiterate loser. work on your reading and comprehension skills, and come back when you can put a few words together to form some sort of coherent argument. I can recommend some adult learning centers to help you with your considerable deficits.

    I doubt you know too many people like me, given people like me tend to hang out with a slightly more cerebral crowd. I’m starting to see why you are getting so worked up about me not seeing things your way. It likely reminds you of the fact that there aren’t too many quality guys pursuing your mentally challenged butt.

  • Nolan Voyd

    “A man with high self confidence would go right up to a woman he doesnt know and he finds attractive to see if she has any interest. If she didn’t no biggie, on to the next prospect. Nothing lost or gained. That man’s self confidence should still be intact unless hes a little B-I. Or should he be like what you are suggesting and say, “well I don’t know if she likes me so I might as well not try to get at her.” That is not the move. That stranger could be your future wife. You are limiting yourself. Plus the first thing a father need to teach his son is that he should get used to rejection form women and that finding “the one” is a numbers game.”

    Funny how people are so willing to ask of others what they are not willing to do themselves…and craft the most eloquent arguments for it. People should do whatever they want. The only problem with the “men chase, women just let shit happen” model is that women are less likely to be pursued by the dude they actually want. The pros are obvious when you don’t have to put anything on the line. Men pursuing doesn’t guarantee a “happily ever after”. It never did.
    In dating in 2013, nothing is true, everything is permitted.

  • Nolan Voyd

    Can we please stop bemoaning the passage of a “golden era” that never was? We forget that courtship has its origins in times when women were not allowed to access property, education, employment, etc as men could. We conveniently forget that courtship existed in a time when women weren’t supposed to want or enjoy sex. And a time when marriage for women was a career.
    Some of the practices (men planning and executive producing the date) make sense for me. But if people connect through group dates, “being friends first” hanging out, just “vibe to see where it goes”and form a connection for a lifetime, a few weeks, or 5 years without the use of a rigid set of rules set by people they never met, then I don’t see the harm.
    This is such a “moral panic” non-story. Culturally, these things happen in cycles. And even still, if dating/courtship is dead, it will rise again on the third day…people can only handle so much change at once and need SOMETHING to help them feel comfortable. Let’s move on to something else.

  • Stanley

    @Rochelle
    You are trying in vain to hold on to the privilege of having the man do all the work while the woman select the better work. I’m sorry women have to work to get what they want just like men, and that means doing the same thing a man does .

    The privilege of sitting back and audition somebody for the chance of a relationship is no longer a unisex privilege. Women like you have to deal with the competition. Women just like men have to work to get a dating life.

    I am #teamRavi all day..

  • Kema

    I understand Ravi. Its interesting that you picked a quote by Albert Einstein. Typical INTP or more general for those not familiar with mbti an introvert. 60 % of the population are extroverts which lead many to overlook introverts or decide their ways of operating are wrong. Most likely you either meet other introverts through shared interest or run into an ExTP like me that likes to chose rather than wait to be chosen.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I frequently quote Einstein and Will Ferrell — two of the best sources of quotations in the history of talking.

    I just took the test a couple weeks ago. They said I was ENFP:

    “Extrovert(11%) iNtuitive(62%) iNtuitive Feeling(50%) Perceiving(67)% You have slight preference of Extraversion over Introversion (11%) You have distinctive preference of Intuition over Sensing (62%) You have moderate preference of Feeling over Thinking (50%) You have distinctive preference of Perceiving over Judging (67%)”

    I’m only reserved over the phone, with people I don’t know or in person with attractive women that I don’t know. I’m pretty extroverted with people I already know or with people online.

  • http://morriscat.50megs.com/type/index.htm Kema

    I type as ENTP. ENTP & ENFP are the most introverted extroverts. My brother types as ENFP and he has always ended up with someone that pursued him. On the other hand I have an INFP friend who, like you, opens up around people she knows. However, being an extrovert is not about how outgoing you are. The key to whether you are an introvert or not lies in the way you draw energy. Are you energized by being around someone (extrovert) or do you recharge when you are alone (introvert). Take a look at this site for a really in depth analysis on each type and the four dichotomies.

  • Rochelle

    Ravi if you are not chasing, you are expecting to be chased. That is why it is called courtship, not “mutually coming together.” At least not in the begining. Men ask/beg women to give them a chance and the women make the decision. At least that was what courtship consisted of. Now lazy low self esteem men want to sit back and demand a definite answer as to whether the woman is into them, before they even talk to her. What it comes down to is that we reserve talking to people we deem important. If they are not important, we want to give as little effort as possible. I bet if you won a million dollars and had to call in to claim the money, you would not make up that “I’m better in written form” BS. No, you would call because you want the money. Just like if you want a woman to spend time with you, you would want to call her and talk. We have different opinions. So be it. Have fun with your texting convos, but try not to text your answers in a job interview. I guarantee you won’t get the job:)

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “Ravi if you are not chasing, you are expecting to be chased.”

    And that’s the part you seem to not understand. Two people can show interest in one another and simply go out without anyone chasing. I don’t need to chase women any more than I need to chase friends.

    “That is why it is called courtship, not “mutually coming together.” At least not in the begining. Men ask/beg women to give them a chance and the women make the decision.”

    Who said I was courting? Another point you seem not to be able to understand. You may be waiting for someone to “court” you, but I have no interest in it. I prefer coming together with someone where we show mutual interest in one another and put in comparable amounts of work.. I don’t need to beg/ask anyone to give me a chance. If a woman isn’t inclined to give me a chance based on her initial attraction, then she isn’t worth my time. I don’t need to convince anyone to want to get to know me. People that are interested in someone don’t need to be convinced to deal with that person. They want to get to know them, and I only deal with women that want to get to know me.

    “Now lazy low self esteem men want to sit back and demand a definite answer as to whether the woman is into them, before they even talk to her.”

    yeah, you said that the first time. And that’s why you are a hypocrite. You sit back putting forth no effort and just expect men to do all the work of chasing you. Then you call men lazy for doing the same. By your own definition, you are incredibly lazy.

    Your analogy is completely useless. You said I HAD to call to get the money, but I don’t have to call to get a girl. I have a choice. There are plenty of women that have no problem communicating through writing instead of using the phone. I know women that rarely use their phone any more. A comparable analogy would be if I had a choice between texting to get a million and calling to get a million. I would choose texting. As I’ve said from the beginning, every girl isn’t like you. I do just fine texting; I’m fine not getting the women that think like you, because I have no interest in dealing with women with your mindset. I haven’t had to chase or pursue any of the women I’ve dated for close to a decade, and have no inclination to start dealing with spoiled brats like yourself with some weird, unearned entitlement complex.

    Clearly we do have different opinions. The primary difference is that mine is consistent and actually makes sense. Yours makes you a judgmental hypocrite. All opinions are not created equal.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    What’s the URL for the site?

  • Stanley

    @Ravi
    Man, you know what? I think Rochelle is just trying in vain to keep a competitive advantage in the SMP. She lacks competence, so she only has one option: MAKING THE COMPETITION LOWER FOR HER.

    If you can, please stop answering her shaming language.

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  • billy ben

    what is a floppy disk? idk

  • Pingback: The Digital Dating Era Isn’t All Bad | Very Smart Brothas

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