Dating While Smart

by Kalisha Buckhanon

Dating While SmartI love the Original House of Pancakes — with my parents, or us holy-ghosters after church, or some fellow-revelers after a hangover-worthy night, or my little niece and cousins who deserve a nicer breakfast than an Egg McMuffin.  But … for a date?

I have a friend who had a man take her there for their first date.  They are not in college.  And, he took her on a Sunday afternoon after all the churches let out … now, you know.

This friend and I both survived the University of Chicago.  We are both first-generation college students who became first generation graduate students to insure that generations after us would not carry such an ironically noble and conflicted award; we have both traveled the world on our own dimes; we both have mastered another language … Français pour être précis; we are both expected to mine the black holes of our psyches to write for a living; we both chose self-directed professions that mostly require discipline and determination as fuel; we both recognize “A Love Supreme” or “Satin Doll” or “Gershwin” within a couple of bars; we read philosophy; we write it; and, we definitely love pancakes with plenty of butter and syrup.  But … for a first date?

We could have stayed up working all night then needed to brave the two-hour wait at IHOP on a weekend day just to refuel again.  But, as grown ladies on a date?!  No.

After her narrative of this waste of an afternoon was over, I recalled my unfortunate episode, once colliding with a man nearly 20 years my senior who led me to believe he was only 10 years such.  He met me shortly after my 2nd novel debuted in 2008.  He never bought (let alone read) that one or the first.  He begged me out to eat often (ranging from sushi to Boston Market), texted me decent but fairly common poetry, paraded me around his musician friends as his “girlfriend” after a few days, gave exclamation to all my color-coordinated and accessorized outfits, talked my ear off about his music dreams and projects, sang my loathed and familiar so-called compliment of “Chooocolate” on a daily basis, and certainly made a show of circling my body whenever I wore a dress so he could admire my derriere and “them hips!”  (His guy friends gave thumbs up to the hips.)

But, he never perused my bookshelf to initiate conversation on one of the nearly 2,000 books I stock.  He never asked about one art piece I collected.  He never asked to read anything I was writing on my computer, often as he sat nearby in impatience.  If I mentioned a country I had visited, he did not request to see pictures.  When I discussed my college memories, he grew mute.  The irony of this was he met me in Starbucks while I was banging out an article for a classic film website.  He could not say he did not know.

Soon, I learned that “full-time” musician and concert organizer meant showing up later at friends’ shows asking to play for a second, and then going to the public library to “network” on Facebook and Myspace the next day.  It meant driving a few friends to their more regular gigs before they arose at 5 a.m. to stand in line for Ford factory applications.  My father was a factory worker, so that was not it.  It was the misrepresentation that we had a career and life experience in common.  It made me wish I was a nurse.  Then, he would have known better to have thought we might be a match.  But, that writer and thinker thing … there really is no context for most people as to what that means.  He once wanted me to take him to a poetry slam and sign up for “Open Mic” so he could see what I did.  I had to politely explain I was not a good poet.

One fine day, he overstayed his welcome in my home (overnight) after yet another attempt to prematurely bed me before I could verify his age, address, income source, and origins through that process formerly known as “dating” (or “courting,” or “getting to know you,” if you will).  I was determined to carry on with my day — which included cleaning my kitchen before taking a break to watch Jeopardy!  As a Black historian, I had extensive knowledge of virtually any blues artist he named to me (he played the harmonica).  I had a themed library in every room of my home, including my bathroom he had insisted on marking his territory with a shower within that very morning.  But, he heard me answering 3 out of 5 questions correctly on Jeopardy! and he grew pale, buck-eyed, stiff, and anxious.  You would have thought I had transformed from the cool, sexy, “Chocolate” chick he was trying to bed into a ghost come up from Hades. Or maybe Reagan, the sad character Linda Blair played in The Exorcist: possessed by a devil, speaking foreign tongues I should have never heard, giving information I could not have known, taunting, strange, and dangerous.  I went from sexy, to well … discomforting.

When I was in junior high school, I was comfortable with and actually honored to make peoples’ day in “Around the Way Girl” ways.  I flashed my smile often, showed I could snake with the best of them, threw on my FUBU outfit for the basketball games, and rapped along to Kid-n-Play or Will Smith on Video Soul.  But I turned down my Mozart when friends knocked.  I did not invite the Pep Club to my piano recitals.  I kept my obsession with the Sophocles’ tetralogies to my closet intellectual self.  I closed our front door when the family studied the Bible.  For my peace of mind, I thought it best to fit the “norm”; popularity balanced my nerdier pursuits.  But adulthood becomes a self-selecting world.  I have discovered that it is still difficult to select a world around me where “Smart Black Woman” is just as celebrated and comforting as “Strong Black Woman.”

My Black female friends and I are anything but “typical.”  For all of us, education has been a fundamental core value.  The term “Domestic Goddess” is a natural descriptor that anyone who tastes our food or enters our home experiences.  The world is our oyster, and we travel it often.  A conversation with any one of us is as significant a pleasure as winning (or losing) at Trivial Pursuit.  We want Tupac Shakur to come back to life.  We love Meryl Streep as much as we love Nia Long. We are not racist.  We remain steadfast and committed to our families and communities.  And, most essentially, we are kind and diplomatic women who give others freedom to express themselves, exhibit genuine interests in others’ interests, and fit in very well to environments beyond our owns.

Yet, we remain ensconced by and encased within a world that is more likely to view us as that banshee-yelling-at paternity-tests and referees on daytime talk shows, or as that helpless dysfunctional problem to be solved (or saved) within impoverished and violent environments, or that half-talented songstress whining catchy hooks for the booty-shaking crowd, or that distressed foreign woman in dire circumstances of need, or that “angry” and “mad” thing … These gentlemen I have discussed here are a part of this world — and they were Black and educated themselves.  When we have dated men of other races who relate to our minds, we suffered dirty looks in our own communities.

Bad dates are not unique to Black women.  All women experience this fact of life.  But for other women, the “bad dates” occur at sophisticated venues where the grievances hover more in the realms of personality incompatibility, or crudeness on the part of the male, or the poor guy’s awful choice of tie.  For Black women, another dimension to this fact of life usually contributes to our unique tales: we are stricken with the heavy task of overturning stereotypes that demean the experiences we ought to have in this world.

My observations are not original.  That is the problem.  They have been discussed, ad nauseam, by writers and cultural critics the world over.  Most people would fail this quiz:

  • Did you see a Black woman wearing glasses or reading a book on TV this week?
  • Did you actually see a Black woman at work — in her office, at a meeting, negotiating a contract, or delivering a monologue — on any one of the sitcoms that claim to portray Black people in a more positive and progressive light?
  • Did you see a film where a Black man, or any man for that matter, chased a Black woman down for her love — betwixt winning conversations and memorable lines?
  • Have you watched a Black female commentator or expert, outside of discussions on violence or community ills or politics, win an intellectual spar this week?

For those of us who flow into our own recipes, we exist in a state of arrested development that silences us outside of a very narrow group of people.  It is troubling to see shock on wait staffs’ faces or amusement on grocery clerks’ faces when we pronounce “foie gras” or inquire where the tahini sauce is.  I once had to ask a White man at a party to move away from me; he was visibly shocked that I not only knew who National Book Award winner Joan Didion was, but that I was actually reading her latest book.  I went from relaxing to thinking: How could a woman assembled at a gathering of writers, professors, teachers, and artists not know who Joan Didion is?  Oh, I am Black.

To some extent, the heart of this matter is that my girlfriends and I have crossed paths with close-minded individuals.  But at this stage of our lives, what filtration process must occur before we can guard our steps against even tip-toeing near such paths?  Will we sell out if we flee off to the suburbs or Europe?  Are we that needed here, in urban Americas, to explain ourselves to no avail?  For no one ever wishes to be a role model.  It usually happens naturally by way of striving for a model — and we have had great ones.  So, what is a smart Black woman to do when she arrives there — but she better pour syrup like Aunt Jemima on first dates or lose her voice when Jeopardy! is on?

  • I got sense!

    The problem is only as big as you allow it to be. Real recognize real. Be who you are and let someone else recognize and adore it. For those who don’t, so what. Just don’t settle for less because being alone can be very difficult.

    Ironically, the last film I saw where a black man chased a black woman for love was Django. Ha, let the thumbs down commence.

  • kyky

    So other than to brag about yourself… the point of this article was what exactly?

  • Zan

    Firstly, you are a beautiful writer. And next, while my perspective is different (being black in the Caribbean vs. being black in America), the questions remain:

    How do I balance my tastes, pursuits, interests, goals, ambitions with the current dating scene of men who think a date at a nicer than normal restaurant has to be earned after a couple “interviews”, who can’t add something substantial to a debate on politics or our desperately failing economy, or who look on blankly or skeptically at an above average knowledge of wine?
    [Insert where are all the 'good' men cliche].

  • Orange Starr Happy Hunting

    We should all be proud of our accomplishments yet humility goes a long way.
    Compatibility, mutual attraction, shared values, some potent degree of chemistry etc. are all rare things across the gamut of socioeconomic statuses, cultural and educational backgrounds.

  • Chillyroad

    You were dating someone you didn’t have anything in common with not someone you were smarter than. Perhaps if he started talking about astrophysics you would have drawn a blank face.

    Good luck out there. Make things simple and find someone you have things in common with.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    My sympathy to the author, must be very difficult to be in possession of such great intellect yet to be surrounded by a sea of inferior minds who just don’t understand you and worst are indifferent to your social plight. A curse that comes with being a part of the talented tenth no doubt. I hope she can find peace and appreciation for her talents in other communities, the black community will just have to suffer along in her absence. Oh well, got to go, have a date at the IHOP.

  • Kay J

    I completely relate to this article. I live in the deep south where race, social, economical, and a whole SLEW of other issues face women (and men) of color on the daily!

    Hard working SMART women here are completely left out to dry by the even the most intelligent men.

    My conclusion is that we are so complex, they fear us. Or much worse they have fear of themselves not being “good enough” for us.

    Solution:
    Enjoy as many encounters, dates, and stimulating conversations as possible. Then go home write about, be thankful, and have faith that the Creator does not let our inner yearnings go unnoticed.

  • http://gravatar.com/qlittlestar13 The Mighty Quinn

    LLLLOVVE!!!! Life is different being a woman “blerd” than a man. I have lived this story and I always say “it can be very lonely sticking to your guns”. I have heard all of the advice over the years and the purpose of mentioning these things to those who think this is bragging, is why can’t I be interesting and have a man on that level, men do it all the time.

    I don’t know how old you are honey, but at some point the finger will be pointed at you. Like you are doing something wrong. No one is Lording their accolades over anyone, relationships are give and take and eventually you want someone interested in SOMETHING you are into. I get the “you are too picky” or “that is what you get for being so intelligent”, my favorite is “how can you expect anyone to love you, if you don’t love you.” I don’t even know where that one comes from. I love it when people are impressed by my spiritual but gob smacked as to the fact that I am not married.

    I will be 50 this year and I am still living the dream, I am sure my wild man is out there looking for me.

  • Kacey

    I’m surprised some people interpreted this essay so negatively. I don’t think the author was trying to brag. I read it as a brief commentary on the difficulties that accomplished black women encounter in a world that has [negative] preconceived notions of them. it’s about balance and acceptance, and trying to be yourself amid people who may be uncomfortable with that because of their own issues. At least, that’s how I understood it. I quite enjoyed it and a think a lot of us can relate.

  • Yvette

    Whew! There’s a lot going on in this article.

    From what I can tell, the author seems frustrated about the quality of men she’s attracting. She’s attracting men who aren’t into the same things that she’s into, who aren’t intellectually stimulating, and who aren’t interested in her as a person.

    This has nothing to do with being too smart. This has to do with choosing the wrong partner. Period. Stop dating men you’re not attracted to (mentally), stop inviting them over to your home to spend the night, stop letting them take a shower in your bathroom. Seems like a simple solution.

    Also, if you don’t want to go to the Original House of Pancakes then don’t go! But stop snarking like you’re too good to eat there. Seems like a perfectly acceptable date spot. It’s about getting to know the person you’re dating, not where you eat brunch.

  • Yvette

    Word! Love this comment.

  • Cocochanel31

    i AGREE. The authoer came off as very snobby with “I am better than you” tone. With all of this knowledge, did she not meet any similary minded men – black or white at one of the numerous universities that she attended. She probably needs to expand her ciricle and get out more, she is not the only well versed/well read black person on the planet. I also take offense to the fact that it was alluded that only a white man could understand and appreciate her intellect. Umm newsflash- not all white people are cultured or educated, and not all black people are dumb.

    Get off your high horse – I tried to relate to what she was saying but the tone was too much for me.

  • CanV

    I say get out there and date someone different who still is in line with your core intelligent values. Be he Asian, White, or whatever go where you are appreciated.

  • Nikster

    You clearly are very intelligent but even the tone of this article sounds a little like you are an intellectual snob. You have every right to acknowledge your achievements but your tone is kind of offputting and I am not even trying to date you.

    I am not sure why you stayed with this man this long if he didn’t meet your standard of intelligence or knowledge. I am an female blerd as well (currently finishing my doctorate) but honestly some of the stuff you describe in this article sounds like you clearly were aware of the fact this man was not intellectually on your level yet your expectation was “why isn’t he rising to it?” It seems clear that he couldn’t even if he wanted to so it then turned into resentment towards you. If he doesn’t have the education or the knowledge why would he just start perusing your bookshelf? Why would he be excited about your college memories if he hasn’t gone or if he has wanted to go and wasnt’ able to? Why would he care about your artwork if he doesn’t have an interest in art? The one place where he must of thought he had something going for him (music) you clearly have more knowledge. I am sure he felt very inadequate. I am not saying you need to dumb yourself down or that this man was even a great guy but you seem very concerned about how things are from your perspective as a blerd that it is interesting that you haven’t examined how it would be from his.

    I think alot of Black women that are very educated assume that the man has an issue with them due to Black stereotypes instead of think about the insecurity they may possibly feel when they haven’t reached the success that you have. That doesn’t make their treatment of you okay or even something you should take if it is problematic in the relationship but we have all seen the numbers. We know we are passing Black men in education and in our careers. Don’t dumb yourself down to be with a man but it seems ridiculous to put up unfair expectations for men in this story when they may not be able to reach them b/c they may not have the education or the knowledge you have.

  • Chillyroad

    Tonton

    That was class.

  • LMFAO

    Awwww your insecurity is showing.

  • Pseudonym

    OMG, yES!!! I couldn’t even get though the entire article after the third or fourth straight paragraph of “I’m so smart, I’m so cultured, I’m so frickin fantastic!” Maybe I’ll try again later.

    You never explained what was so horrible about the date. Was the guy the problem or are you guys that hung up on the location? Is the guy in law school and on a budget? Is he struggling with work and pay like many other people? Does he genuinely think that- despite it’s not-so-fancy decor- IHOP makes the best short stack in the city? It’s funny this complaint bc most people you’ll meet who brag about being world travelers will go on and on about how the best meals in x country come as street food for $1. And they love to write Yelp reviews on “hole in the wall” Thai restaurants.

    I haven’t read the entire thing and it’s just one article, but from the part I could stomach, you come off as elitist and obnoxious. So what if a guy thinks IHOP pancakes taste the best the day you meet him. You can introduce him to pancakes that you consider better and see if he likes it. And he might not. IHOP makes pretty good pancakes. And he might, and you would have introduced him to the Utopia of pancakes and he’ll always appreciate you for it whenever he pours the syrup over a short stack.

    Also, all that stuff you bragged about doesn’t seem that important to a lot of men when they are looking for a mate. I think that’s one of the best things I realized about dating. Did your friend smile a lot and make that man feel sexy, smart, and like she was interested or even interesting to him? Did she inspire him to want to take her out to a fancy shmancy restaurant bc she was so beautiful, classy, nice and appreciative of the small things that he wants to do even bigger things just to make her smile even more?

    I think the best part of my relationships is the fact that I always leave with new hobbies, interests, and skills. And I hope that I offer the same to my mates. Smart doesn’t have to mean out of touch and unable to relate to people outside of your academic circle. The snootiness that UChicago is infamous for seems to have rubbed off on you. I don’t mean to sound harsh but this article started off harsh and rubbed me the wrong way.

  • LMFAO

    Damn, so a black woman can only share her experiences as long as she doesn’t mention her achievements or intelligence. Some of you Clutchettes are so damn pathetic.

  • http://twitter.com/4everYoungMsD D!0^^3 Dionne (@4everYoungMsD)

    This article made no sense sorry

  • Job

    Men don’t go on dates to discuss politics or the economy. Even smart guys. And absolutely no man wants to get into a debate about such things on a date. That is a great way to never get another date.

  • Job

    No. Smart women are annoying when they try to show off how smart they are. Men like smart women, not show offs. Its not a competition. Nobody how many obscure books you read or your art collection, just like you probably don’t care about our love of football or cars.

  • I got sense!

    “…why can’t I be interesting and have a man on that level, men do it all the time”.

    I’m not sure if how I took this is how you meant it but men aren’t chasing women based on intellect and degrees. Women and men look for different things in relationships. All the degrees, intellect and worldly travels are great accomplishments for women, especially for black women whose ancestors were once 3/5ths of a person, but usually only other women and the few men who aim to compare and contrast or collect data are interested in these traits. For most people it doesn’t matter. Your personal achievements are just that…personal achievements. Not everyone cares about traveling the world, reading books, and tasting wines. Nothing good or bad in it either way but one can’t project their own lifestyle onto others. All anyone can do is try to find a like minded person and share your space with them but don’t get upset at those who don’t share in your lifestyle. That comes off as uppity and very unattractive.

  • Chillyroad

    …and so will your singleness.

  • Cia

    No she can share her experiences and achievements but it was just done in a way that didn’t effectively convey her story/point. Her achievements are commendable but to spend 95% of the post discussing her own accomplishments and credentials just didn’t illustrate their incompatibility. Maybe she was smarter or had more “culture” but the bottom line is that she was dating a person with whom she had little to nothing in common.

  • AM

    This article is very pointless. Title should have been. I’m smart, I know it, and I’m bragging. That’s all I got from it…carry on!

  • Treece

    I would have to agree with you. The author’s tone is off-putting and seems downright arrogant. I understand her plight and I hear what she’s saying but, when you say that you carried on with a man who didn’t appreciate your intellect for an appreciable amount of time (as well as let him “stay” in your home overnight) I question your knowledge of people and how you relate to human beings. “Common sense” if you will, rather than “book smarts” or philosophical genius….I mean she spends half the article tooting her own horn about how well rounded and well traveled she is, but all of a sudden is suprised at this guy’s reaction to finding out she knows a few answers to questions on Jeopardy! or that he isn’t interested in hearing about her travels or books. Really? I am a bit of a “blerd” myself, but I’m not going to go on and on about how much more I know than I guy I have dated for a considerable amount of time b/c clearly, there is a reason why I am hanging in there. For one to write about how much smarter than the “average bear” you are and talk about those less well rounded than you like they are beneath you, and then have the nerve to continue to keep connections with those same people you talk down about is hypocrisy in one of it’s worse forms. What, you couldn’t take the time out to see if there was more in common between you than just music? What exactly is she trying to prove with this one?? Geez…..

  • AM

    LMAO!

    I’m right behind ya, maybe we can do a double date….j-philly where is you at?!!?!

  • Chillyroad

    Is it me or do educated black women remind you of the nouveau rich?

  • Tallulah Belle

    Its just you.

  • Chillyroad

    Why are you talking about the man as if he was inferior to her. What if he want insecure. What if he just want interested. Maybe he didn’t go to college because he didn’t want to. Maybe her taste in art sucks. Maybe inspire of her education and her worldliness she was still as uninteresting as she perceived him to be.

    “We know we are passing Black men in education and in our careers.”

    Still angry and complaining.

    “Don’t dumb yourself down..”

    No need to dumb herself down but certainly needs to class herself up.

  • AM

    You can share your achievements, BUT it’s the tone. Don’t come off as condescending…

  • D

    I also am confused as to the point of this article…..or maybe I’m just not smart enough to understand its high-minded purpose or the intricacies of language that the author employed. :-)

    BTW Brainiac, women aren’t the only ones who do things to “filter” or weed out potential bad matches. Taking a woman to IHOP on a first date seems like the perfect move to weed out a certain type of woman. Someone is nice enough to pay for you to eat, driving you around, paying for whatever entertainment occurs – without even the promise of “prematurely bedding” you (love that) – and suddenly the date becomes a waste because of pancakes and regardless of the actual quality of the person? Granted, that’s you calling it a waste, not your friend. But if she agrees I say bravo to that man for only wasting the few dollars necessary to buy a short stack to find out who she really was.

    And the guy who didn’t respond to the endless displays of your mega-smarts around your home – a virtual mausoleum of your intellect? It could be because he feels anyone who feels the need to have themed book collections in every room (holy christ…lol) is just like a person who feels the need to pepper conversation with $10 words. They are insecure pseudo-intellectual posers who don’t actually want intelligent conversation. They see any discussion as a chance to showcase their brilliance and mental superiority and, thus, are boring as fuck.

    Now, of course, logic indicates that I consider the possibility that your article is being misunderstood. But somehow I think I and many commenters have it exactly right.

  • GlowBelle

    I completely know where you’re coming from, considering that I’ve been ‘that girl’ with a nose in a book and with guys who weren’t on the same level with me intellectually, and yes it is frustrating when you’re the one initiating the conversations and are simply greeted with a blank face and a nervous smile. I even had one guy who boasted to me that he didn’t like reading and would never read a book…now that, to me, is something to get a bit selective about, but it sounds like the guy you were with, you and him didn’t have the same interests and shared experiences, and yes, you DID come off as snobby, which got him intimidated and you frustrated. Also cut him some slack, I’m assuming he didn’t go to the same college as you, so why would he be so jazzed to hear about your experiences? Also did you at least try showing him your writings/artwork to provoke the conversation? You’re acting like he was psychic or something and he should know what you wanted him to do. Sometimes you have to put in some effort yourself, and not rely on the other person to do it for you.

    I’ve tried dumbing myself down for guys and that NEVER works, as you should always be yourself when meeting people (because that’s how you meet people like you, when you are yourself), and I’m not saying you should try it, but honey, you’re gonna have to not set your standards so high in hopes that the guy you are with rises to them. You can’t fix people, you are not Professor Higgins trying to fix your Eliza Doolittle into the perfect refined specimen to complement and stroke your ego. You need to find someone who meshes with you on your level and you need to not be overly picky. You can have standards, for sure, you should never settle, but it seems that that’s what you did and you kept this guy around in hopes he’d changed, and that’s just running in circles with no destination in sight. Also you probably need to branch out your dating pool and maybe slack off the pretentious, you’ll never know what you’ll find if you stop trying to impress people and stop forcing things that don’t need pushing.

    Also…hey, what is so bad about Sunday brunch at IHOP for a first date? Shoot, I wish a guy would take me to Sunday brunch at IHOP…they got great pancakes PLUS you can get a omelette with it! lol

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    LMFAO, you have successfully smoked me out, I am obviously intimidated by intelligent worldly women whose light shines to bright for my cave man ways. A character flaw in me that I must live with and disqualifies me as a suitor for these golden prize of a catch women. I don’t know how but I will some how have to find the strength and courage to carry on in the darkness with out the glaring light you and women like the author provide. Woe is me…….

  • Me

    RIGHT?? I couldn’t even read it all! Note to the author, know when to wrap it up.

  • Tina-T

    Is McDonalds an acceptable getting-to-know-you date spot too?

    There are just some things in American dating culture that are faux pas. I’m not saying dates need to be expensive/fancy because YO we are in a recession and my recently-grad scrubby unemployed self can’t have expectations like that.

    But I am saying those national/regional chains most Americans associate with hangovers and/or poor food quality like Denny’s, iHOP, BK, etc are completely off limits if ur not just trying to “pick up food real fast”. Those places should not be THE DATE but the pitstop if you trying to BOAB– Ball On A Budget.

    Dating is expensive, but we all need love.

  • Keepitreal

    I’m not surprised by the reaction here in the least bit in fact it’s quite typical. SMH

  • Nikster

    I think you raise a good point and you are right it could be exactly as you describe. In either case, it is interesting that either scenario (or many others) was not considered by the author. I am not don’t think Black men are inferior at all. My boyfriend didn’t finish college and as you stated he chose not to because he didn’t think it was useful for what he wanted to do. I would never look down at him for that choice. He is also brilliant.

    I should have been more detailed with my point about Black woman surpassing Black men educationally. It wasn’t knock to Black men as much as a statement of fact. It is what is. Many Blacks relative too Whites deal with educational challenges (ex: graduating high school, college attendance, graduating college etc.). Within the group there is a significant difference based on gender. So black educated females looking for their black intellectual match based on criteria like educational background, degrees, and the fancy restaurants they can take them to with their white collar jobs may find themselves less likely to encounter that. Doesn’t mean that the men are less than by any means. Cleary, you can have alot in common with someone beyond educational background but the author seems to be heavily focused on how learned the guy was but based on what she described he may not have been in the way that she wanted him to be. Who knows dude could have two masters degrees…she never indicated his educational background in the article.

    I agree that the author needs to class up and have more perspective on someone’s circumstances or just their point of view. He may have just not been that into her.

  • Smilez_920

    +1 I feel like the author named all of the intellectual things she liked about the guy , but didnt give any insight into what made him stay around. I mean if he was just so uninterested in the things that make you happy/ make you you, why did you stick around. Maybe that’s could be part of the issue.

    Other than that I can agree with what the images we see of black women on TV etc..

    Also I don’t think Ihop is a horrible first date for brunch or breakfast, I mean what if he took u too Starbucks or some cool coffe to grab a latte and a Danish. Maybe he just picked Ihop because he knew tere would be at least one thing on te menu u would eat, during the date while you guys are getting to ” know ” each other you can resturant name drop .

    Other than that go to the plaea you enjoy and maybe you’ll bump into your Mr.right.

  • Chillyroad

    Did she try to get to know him, his interests or his accomplidhments?

  • EST. 1986

    You all are so rude to the writers here.

  • DownSouth Transplant

    Yvette,
    Thanks for the synopsis, I was gonna take a stub at it after dinner, she left me behind on her all over the continent trip & love/no love for Ihop, love/no love for musicians, love no love for spoken-word, love/no love for factory workers etc , the different observations/opinions she was espousing at each paragraph were too jumpy/disjointed to follow in the middle of the day.

  • Nikster

    Statements like:

    “I had a themed library in every room of my home, including my bathroom he had insisted on marking his territory with a shower within that very morning.”

    -My cat marks his territory. The dude took a shower and the way she described it he degraded her precious books. I feel like this could’ve been summed up with: “I love books and have many in my home but he never seemed interested in discussing any of them.” The themed library seems excessive and thrown in to show how cultured she believes she is compared to him.

    “He met me shortly after my 2nd novel debuted in 2008. He never bought (let alone read) that one or the first.”

    -Why should he read your book? Did he say he was planning to and didn’t? Why would it interest him? I would be thrown for a loop if one day my boyfriend asked to read my dissertation. He knows what I do but has minimal interest in the specific topic I am researching. I wouldn’t interpret that response or lack of interest in a bad way.

    “Soon, I learned that “full-time” musician and concert organizer meant showing up later at friends’ shows asking to play for a second, and then going to the public library to “network” on Facebook and Myspace the next day.”

    -If the dude doesn’ thave internet at home then going to the public library to seems like initiative to me on his part. Why slam him for it? I dont’ know if she is seeing what he is actually doing on social media but it doesn’t seem completely out of left field that a muscian would network on Facebook or Myspace. He could just be goofing off but he could be making connects as well.

    She is using her accomplishments to juxtapose the inadequacy of the guy from her view. This has nothing to do about pumping yoru accomplishments as much as it is being done to diminish the guy. That is why it comes off snobbish.

  • http://twitter.com/collegekidd harlem shakespeare (@collegekidd)

    You have a college education, two thousand books, you write for websites no one has ever heard of. You collect art, you’re a world traveler.. But you just don’t sound that fun to be around. Nobody wants to watch you answer jeopardy questions. I’m as educated. I have a love for knowledge but a themed library in every room? Who gives a shit? Your dating problem isn’t as deep as you perceive it to be. This one isn’t about black women and everyone being intimidated by a smart/successful one. You think you’re too good for IHOP. THAT’s why you’re having dating trouble. Chill. Eat that chip on your shoulder or go to the European suburbs. I doubt any of us would have a problem with that.

  • Barbara

    Tell me about it even before reaching the end of the article I knew the responses would be:

    1. Degrees don’t get men!!!! (In other words, if it’s not a dick magnet than it’s worthless)
    2. Girl, it’s all yo fault (The defacto response to anything a BW says)
    3. You just showing off (STFU and look pretty)
    4. Lower them standards, girl (He’s got the D, then he’s good, what more do you want??)

  • Dante

    I think the author’s mistake is that she values her interests more than others. Just because someone doesn’t like everything you like, doesn’t mean you’re incompatible. She seems to look at her possessions and accomplishments as assets that others should see and value, but that’s not always the case. Something you truly enjoy shouldn’t have to validated by someone else.

    My wife doesn’t have all the same interests I do. We have different tastes in comedy, books, movies, etc. I dont try to force her into my box. I share when I think something is funny or interesting, and keep the stuff I don’t think she’d be into to myself. I don’t resent her for not liking Louie, or Childish Gambino, or Lars von Trier movies, or Malcolm Gladwell books as much as I do. We share our common interests, and keep the rest separate.

  • Nic

    The article was long-winded but for some reason, people are more comfortable praising people for superficial traits like looks or hair but get upset when someone is proud of being well-educated.
    Some think it’s okay to brag about looks but mention socioeconomic class, education, and income and people get really angry (and insecure?)
    We’re supposed to be really excited and impressed by women who make their living shaking their bottoms but not by those that use their minds.
    And that is a shame.

  • Yvette

    @Tina-T – IHOP is not a fast-food restaurant. You can sit down, have a conversation and a meal and get to know each other. That IS the point of dating, right?

  • http://gravatar.com/opulenceochre Lilah :)

    I liked the article and I also loved your comment, Nikster. I think the writer should share her knowledge with the men she’s dating, instead of looking down at them. For example, with IHOP… ok, she may have did IHOP in the past in her college years, instead of looking down at the guy… she can offer up a suggestion of a French restaurant that offers crepes. Share a book that you love with the guy. My point is, that not everybody is going to be on the same level as you, but that doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing either. Enlighten your date, put him on to Joan Didion and he’ll learn something. That guy may not be on your academic level, but he could have shown you, how to do a oil change on your car. Of course, always keep your standards high, as far as what you can take.

  • au napptural

    Thank you! IDK I was starting to wonder if it was me. I completely relate to this article. I didn’t think the author sounded like a snob. She just sounded frustrated. I have the same exact problem. I’m super militant, like considered joining the New Black Panthers militant, but that’s not all there is to me. I lurveee sci-fi and I’m addicted to dystopian fiction, which I also write. I hate that one side of me always feels left out in the cold. Either I’m out with a black and proud dude and my other intellectual pursuits get no play or I meet a hot writer who either “doesn’t just want to be thought of as black” (RED flag) or who isn’t black and can’t understand my cultural background. Le sigh.

    As encouragement to you,Kalisha, I did once meet and have a long-term relationship with a wonderful black guy who was all about sci-fi, Orwell, and black power. It’s possible, it just takes patience to find that rare gem.

  • D

    You don’t have to “dumb yourself down” for guys. But let me provide some insight into what you’re experiencing with a tiny example.

    I’m a writer and have a huge vocabulary. But the job of a writer is to convey information in a way that whatever audience reads it can understand it, including the less learned or intelligent. Using giant words typically defeats that purpose so most writers avoid it. In other words, it’s not the reader’s job to get a master’s in linguistics to understand what I write, it’s my job to make what I write as understandable as possible.

    To relate that to your situation, if you’re talking with someone on multiple occasions and they don’t get what you’re saying, it’s not their fault. It’s your fault for not making yourself understood in a way they get. That’s not dumbing it down. That’s improving your communication/social skills.

    As a writer with my own master’s I can still literally converse with anyone about any subject without making them feel like an idiot. And I do so daily.

  • D

    “You think you’re too good for IHOP. THAT’s why you’re having dating trouble.”

    And let the church say Amen.

  • http://gravatar.com/qlittlestar13 The Mighty Quinn

    As I said in my review, no one is Lording anything over anyone. When I was young, I was so passionate all I could talk about was my next adventure. I got that no one wants to hear that all the time. Now as you said it is my personal experience and I have kept it that way and have had dates a little put off that I did not mention I had done some of the things I have done. At the end of the day, I am country as cornflakes and proud to be,it is not about education, for me it is about living life to the fullest and I do. I have plenty of friends to share my adventures with, but I would like to be with a person who is interested in my life because that is me….and I will be interested in their life because that is them. For most travelers, not traveling is a deal breaker, for me he don’t have to but he must be ok with me off on my own for periods at a time.
    I do find that whenever someone is confident and passionate and Black, it falls into one of two categories……uppity or bourgie.

  • Smilez_920

    Sometimes it’s not what you say but how you say it. @Kacey towards the end of the article I though the same thing you did, but the opening and description of the date and musician and tone were a little off putting.

    I understand it can be frustrating finding someone who stimulates you both mentally and physically . But the fort half of the article made it seem like the author is single because she is smart and has other interest. If she wants someone who likes every single thing she like and is basically a male version of herself, she’s going to be going on a lot of ” questionable ” dates for a while. There’s nothing wrong with beig proud of your accomplishments but you can talk about them and share them with others in a welcoming way, not like listing a resume.

    Same goes for men and women.

  • http://gravatar.com/qlittlestar13 The Mighty Quinn

    I get the IHOP thing. Come on something original. I had a guy take me to his favorite hotdog stand because the way they made them is “special” and for dessert, picked up two slices of strawberry cheesecake and ate them while chatting on the promenade that overlooks Manhattan. Romantic, inexpensive, delicious AND thoughtful……

  • Pseudonym

    @Nic: You’ve got it all wrong. No one’s knocking her accomplishments or mad b/c she’s proud of them; they’re knocking her snooty tone. I’ve done all of these things mentioned in the article except write a novel- I’m in medical school instead. and I would NEVER write something like this, nor would my friends who have also done the above things (and some even more, Harvard graduates among them). I couldn’t even READ this article. As someone else said, this article lacks humility. and it reeks of elitism, which is off-putting coming from a woman who is the first person in her family to graduate from college. It’s not like she grew up in affluence and high brow and therefore has a reason not to relate to IHOP or someone who doesn’t hop around the world on a whim.

  • D

    Each one of those but the last is true. Funny.

  • Stanley

    Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!
    That’s a funny question!

  • Kr

    She wants a fun, good looking, successful, EDUCATED black man. There’s plenty of them out here. Only 18% (less than 2 out of 10) black women have a degree.

    Her problem is those men don’t want her. So she then complains about the only black men willing to give her the time of day.

  • P

    This article has a good point to it. I’ll admit…I’ve settled in the past. Once I did that, trust me I received a lot (less) than what I had bargained for. Within that short –lived courtship, I discovered my taste was losing its flare. This is why this article is good especially for women. Once a woman dumbs herself down, it appears as if she goes further down. It’s not that you think you are superior to a certain type of men. If he isn’t enlightening your life spiritually or intellectually, really… what’s the purpose of developing a meaningful relationship? I think the author may have arrived to a point of frustration. It’s cute to hang out with guys in which you aren’t as compatible. But now, maybe she is ready to settle down and is seeking more of compatibility mate.

    Ihop wouldn’t have discouraged me. However, not looking at any of my books and they are in every room! Yeah, that would have been my first sign of a mismatch. Then again, it makes me wonder did he just want some where to crash for the night (taking showers)… LOL? The most lacking man will find a way initially to keep your interest; even if he doesn’t have one thing in common with you.

  • Job

    College degrees are not an objective measure of intellect. Getting multiple degrees in urban development, philosophy and psychology is not impressive. All you have to do is read the course text, write a stupid paper and pass the class. No analytic ability or problem solving is required. I’ll take an auto mechanics intellect over a masters in psychology any day. And I’m not a jealous bum. I’m an engineer and would easily destroy any women I meet in a game of Jeopardy. But guess what? I don’t care or look down on them for not knowing random scientific and historical facts. What does that add to a relationship? As long as they don’t listen to Nicki Minaj or Trinidad James and they are nice, I don’t care about how many degrees they have. I care more about how they treat me and others.

  • Z

    Lol I was thinking the same thing! What in THE world!?!

  • Fancypants

    I used to feel the way the author felt until I started meeting so-called intellectual men. We had great conversation…but I was bored. I soon came to realize that there is more to being compatible with a person than a big brain. The guy that I am dating now (and am head-over-hills for) doesn’t even have a college degree (gasp! He went the military route instead), but he is very loving, attentive, and he knows how to fix stuff! I mean he can take anything apart and fix it with no problem. He also has a level of “common-man” intelligence that all of my “learning” can’t compete with. I can have my high-brow conversations with my friends; I wouldn’t trade my guy if someone paid me.

  • Barbara

    For someone supposedly as equally educated why the hell are you associating love of art, books and education with Europeans? GTFO

    Some black people are so used to dumbing themselves down that anyone who does not is dubbed acting white, wanting to be European or “bougie”.

  • Smilez_920

    @themightyquinn I agree to a certain extent . I just think when we talk about dating ” especially dating black men and women” an automatic defense wall builds up. Idk why but lately it seems like that way on these articles .

    Anyway, I think it was the tone of the article that threw ppl off not so much her accomplishments. If she had said something like , I have a lot of interest base of of my experiences ( list things). It seems that for some reason Im having a hard time finding men who share common interest with me and it sucks lol

    I think some ppl read the article as ” I’m this this and this and most people can’t handle it “. And Maybe others read the tone snarky. ( Not saying the author meant for it to come off that way).

    I also think the tiltle and list of ” accomplishments ” in the beginning of the article resembled other dating articles we’ve seen where some women think that all these accomplishments automatically make them great partners .

    Just my two cents I understand where the author is coming from.

  • Keepitreal

    The article was long-winded but for some reason, people are more comfortable praising people for superficial traits like looks or hair but get upset when someone is proud of being well-educated.
    Some think it’s okay to brag about looks but mention socioeconomic class, education, and income and people get really angry (and insecure?)
    We’re supposed to be really excited and impressed by women who make their living shaking their bottoms but not by those that use their minds.
    And that is a shame.

    ^^
    Preach, Nic, preach. What’s even more sad is this way of thinking is prevalent.

  • TR

    “So black educated females looking for their black intellectual match based on criteria like educational background, degrees, and the fancy restaurants they can take them to with their white collar jobs may find themselves less likely to encounter that.”
    —–

    For the record, this is becoming common across the board. Men of all ethnic backgrounds are lagging behind women in college enrollment. The trend is only getting worse. We blacks like to think we are the only people affected by certain trends. We then go on to think it makes us special.

    Considering our economy and the direction it is going a college education is overrated (and overpriced) in many cases. Plumbers often pull down bigger salaries than many “educated” folk. Don’t get me wrong. I’m big on education. My career is in higher education. It has much value. But it is not the end all be all.

  • AM

    How so? The commentors have been especially gracious in most of their disagreeable opine of her article.

  • D

    He said that as a play on the author stating a question about running off to Europe. She made that association. smh

  • MYD

    My feelings exactly.

  • D

    Uh, no, who thinks it’s OK to brag about looks? Typically people who feel the need to tell others how beautiful they are, are mocked as well. Now people constantly telling you’re hot is different, just like people telling you how smart you are is different than proclaiming yourself a genius.

    If the author had a long, rambling article about how she was too pretty for the men she dated, how these men were not appreciative of the sheer mind-numbing beauty of her booty and breasts, how succulent her lips and legs are, how she and her friends devoted their lives to looking good and making sure everyone knew how good they looked, how she had libraries of self portraits and and paintings of herself and other equally beautiful women in every room of her house, how a woman as beautiful as her who can make her ass cheeks move independently of one another was clearly too good to be seen within a mile of an IHOP, the reaction would be even more harsh.

  • i

    lol ..you’re witty and funny

  • Chillyroad

    @Job

    “All you have to do is read the course text, write a stupid paper and pass the class.

    So true. I learned that the hard way and I went to a pretty good public university and studied abroad at an even better university. I can’t think of a single thing I did at university that I couldn’t do with a library card and a chat room. It’s why I roll my eyes when I hear people talk about their liberal arts education. I must admit though that writing papers and dissertations in th UK was difficult. The standards are extremely high.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    This! Sorry but the tone of this article says it all. It is not so much dating while smart (because there are plenty HIGHLY intelligent BLACK women who date successfully or is married) but dating while being smart AND pompous. If I was a dude I would have given the author a side eye, HELL as a “brainy” chick I’ am giving the author a side eye. I will admit that “dating while smart” do presents its own sets of problems because you often are faced with the choices of do I dumb myself down to blend with the crowd or be myself and feel like an outsider? But I learned (because I use to do it) that a lot of intelligent people seem to use their knowledge/education/being cultured as an excuse not to have social grace/skills towards people who AREN’T like them or have the same interest they possess.

  • MySister’sKeeper

    How do you make fun of someone’s profession or lack thereof and then your day consists of cleaning the kitchen and returning to the couch for jeaopardy? Lady, I know you thought you looked all good in this article, but no one wants your life. It doesn’t even sound as though the author enjoyed her experiences. It was as though all of her accomplishments are for the sake of being able to speak about them (ad nauseum). I’m not about the fake keeping up with the Jones’ lifestyle, but more power to you. Hope you don’t mind being single and smart forever.

  • http://gravatar.com/heavenleiblu heavenleiblu

    While this is an issue that resonates w/me (even with not being as accomplished on paper), I hope that I don’t come off as snobbish.

    Also, sounds like part of her problem w/this man in particular stems from entertaining him for longer than she should have. I’ve been guilty of that as well; I hope she knows when to shut it down in the future.

  • http://eboniboykin.policymic.com/ eboni

    I love this article. I have to point out though that the tv show Scandal and the movie Django Unchained makes me answer yes to all the questions you asked. Because of that, I have to be grateful to Kerry Washington to starring in both of those. Again, great article

  • GlowBelle

    I don’t know if you’re talking to me or the writer but the whole ‘dumbing down’ doesn’t necessarily have to involve words. You can dumb down your actions to MAKE you look a certain way to somebody. If you’ve seen ‘Mean Girls’ there is a part where Lindsay Lohan’s character pretends she doesn’t know math to impress a guy. She’s dumbing herself down because she thinks that’s what a guy would want her to do, that a guy wouldn’t want a girl who was smarter than him, and that she’d be easier to obtain if she acted like she wasn’t the brightest crayon in the box.

    I am a writer myself and I completely understand that you can still express yourself grandly by keeping things simple. You are right about that and about improving your communication with others in a social setting. Using big words and proclaiming that you have a themed library in every room doesn’t make you look smart, it shows your arrogance/pretentiousness, and who wants to be around that?

    The problem I’m seeing with the writer is that her head is so far up in the clouds gloating in her intelligence, that she can’t see anything or anybody.

  • http://gravatar.com/heavenleiblu heavenleiblu

    …and it’s OHOP, people. ORIGINAL House of Pancakes, not the other, bigger chain. There’s a difference. LOL I’m prepared for all the thumbs down, but that was nagging me a lil bit.

  • Food4thought

    I wonder if a man wrote this article if he would be met with the same cattiness.

  • Barbara

    College degrees are not an objective measure of intellect. Getting multiple degrees in urban development, philosophy and psychology is not impressive. All you have to do is read the course text, write a stupid paper and pass the class.

    Anything not to give a black woman props.

  • I got sense!

    This shit right hene all dat err day.

  • s

    Was it really necessary to claim that only white men could appreciate her intellect? Really? As a black man who actually read her debut novel and was quite impressed, I really wish some black women would ease up on the relentless bashing. What does it really accomplish? The vast majority of white men never attended college, don’t possess a passport and have never read a novel.

  • http://www.geekmommarants.com GeekMommaRants

    Huh? Only the truly blissful would say there are useless college degrees. This degrees do not exist. Most of the IBM and Microsoft programmers I have ever worked with have English degrees. They have mastered the English language and programming is no more than learning a new language. Today, most who work in doors must have degrees to get a job. No degree, no job. Now, what is useless?

  • AM

    we, I mean I, love you black men!! :) Keep commenting.

  • Kr

    @P

    Do you know the difference between settling and that’s the best you can do?

    A lot of women are botty calls, jump offs and baby mamas because they think they can do better than the men who are truly interested in them. These women rather share a man who is just not into them, no interest nor respect for them than be with a man who wants her. Fine, that’s not a problem. Just don’t turn around and complain after the fact and you’ve aged and now noone wants you. Be an adult about it. You made your bed and your own choices.

  • http://gravatar.com/heavenleiblu heavenleiblu

    Agreed; that came from way left.

  • somerealtruth

    I’m certain that if a goodlooking and educated white man wanted her she would have crossed over a long time ago but white men tend to be VERY selective about the black women they have serious relationships with.

  • Kr

    Yeah and their GPA and school were also huge factors.

    I’m not going to say it’s useless but a “C” average sociology or psychology degree from a mid or lower level school won’t even get a you an interview for an admin position in a lot of companies

  • http://keitawheats.tumblr.com/ KeitaWheats

    I was totally turned off by this post. Sometimes, I feel like black women think that because they read a little more, speak another language, or have traveled a little further than the average person, feel they are “it” or superior to other people. It’s one thing to have all these amazing atributes about yourself and share them, but its something else to feel like you can only connect with 1% of the population because of it. The tone of this was smug and elitest. I just feel someone of such intelligence, should have done better at selecting someone with similar interestes…

  • NCB

    I don’t think she said that. She mentioned that one option to consider would be interracial dating, but that pursuing that isn’t problem-free either. She mentioned a white man in that incident in which he was shocked that she knows who Joan Didion is. There have been in recent years some troubling rhetoric about interracial dating as opposed to dating exclusively black, but I don’t think this post is an example of that.

  • SouthernGirlInChicago

    I totally agree with KeitaWheats. I could barely read this article because it was confusing enough to convince not to read her book. I’ve noticed this type of behavior among some of “the first-generation college” graduates that I encounter where the smugness is unbelievable (I’m a 3rd/4th generation college graduate so I know what I’m talking about). So what if a guy took a girl to a pancake house for a date? I guess these “girls” (cause grown women don’t think like this) don’t know that sometimes a man will take you to a different spot to gauge your reaction or maybe he has a tight budget and is doing the best he can and will remember you later when he climbs that latter.

    Not one place in this article did the author take responsibility for HER choices. We have all been stupid at least once playing the dating game so just admit it. She really let a guy spend the night at her house even though she wanted to clean….rrrriiiigggghhhht! She has two degrees but it seems that she focused more on this guy giving her compliments than seeing if they were initially compatible.

    My ex who is a mechanic for the City of Chicago talked about women who looked down on him because of his job. They missed out on the fact that he was an adjunct professor, gourmet cook, had an extensive record collection and loved to go to museums and art festivals in his spare time. Oh and he makes over $100,000 annually. Funny thing is that I didn’t know any of these things when I met him but I found out some of these things over our first date at a burger join and later as the relationship progressed.

    And instead of assuming that white guy was shocked that she knew who Joan Didion was because she was black maybe it could be him throwing that elitist shade back on her because it is obvious that it is part of her personality. Plus I would’ve just asked him.

  • Rue

    “when he climbs that latter”
    Yeah sure, you are an intellectual.

  • http://www.myblackfriendsays.com myblackfriendsays

    You’ve gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you meet your prince. Just keep going out and meeting people, and eventually you’ll find the right person for you.

    And don’t sleep with guys if you know there is no future (unless you are just looking for some ass–you can do that since you’re grown, just use protection ;)

  • OH

    Link to that stat please? And what % of black men have degrees in anything? You do not want to play the stat game when it comes to black men and black women, fill in the blank, please.

  • http://twitter.com/GeeDee215 Gene Demby (G.D.) (@GeeDee215)

    (speak for yourself. I’ve never been deeply attracted to a woman who wasn’t at least a little intellectually intimidating.)

    that still ain’t got nothing to do with this post, tho. education is a commodity, like a big house or a big car. going to an elite university like UChicago doesn’t make you smart any more than owning a Benz makes you a good driver.

    Nobody would want to hear the author brag on her possession of any of that that ish, either.

  • ASK_ME

    @EST. 1986

    I agree. It’s not just this article either.

  • ASK_ME

    A lot of black men are unwanted though they think they can do better than the women who are truly interested in them. These black men rather pursue the “Megan Goods” who is just not into them, no interest nor respect for them than be with a woman who wants him. Fine, that’s not a problem. Just don’t turn around and complain about ALL black women after the fact. Be an adult about it. You made your bed and your own choices.

  • Rue

    My reaction is WTF? Not to the article but to the comments. We have an article next door in which beyonce is being praised for stripping for GQ (Show off that hot body, girl!!) and basically saying “I’m so powerful not even i can wrap my head around it! OMG!”. and what do we get; “Bey is so hardworking, epitome of black womanhood, blahblahblah”

    Here we have Kalisha saying “I work hard for my education and can’t seem to find a man who appreciates it” and we get “snob, uppity, elitist”. As I said, we are a looooong way from the promised land.

    Also, what’s wrong with being a “snob” in dating? Last time I checked, you aren’t supposed to be attracted to each and every. I would probably never date an investment banker, or a pastor, and i couldn’t marry a farmer and live on a ranch. Am I being snobbish to the hordes of wonderful banker/farmer/pastors out there? maybe. Do I give two hoots? Nope. Here’s my mantra:

    “If I didn’t care for books and such,
    My love life would amount to much.
    But I shall stay the way I am,
    Because I do not give a damn!”
    -Dorothy Parker, or something-

  • Mademoiselle

    “a lot of intelligent people seem to use their knowledge/education/being cultured as an excuse not to have social grace/skills towards people who AREN’T like them or have the same interest they possess” –binks

    This is exactly where my mind went when I read this article. I love being smart, I love hanging out with my smart friends, and I hope to one day add a smart husband to my circle, but some smart people really work a nerve with this rhetoric that somehow additional years of school make you superior to the next person, or that it’s impossible to relate to someone who lives a simpler lifestyle, or that the rest of the world is flawed because not everyone trembles at the power of a smart person’s brain.

    Congratulations to the author on all her accomplishments, but guess what. The more you narrow down what you look for in a mate, the harder it will be to come by people who meet that criteria. It has nothing to do with how intimidating you are, or how misunderstood you are. The fact is the one person who is your exact replica probably isn’t stalking you, so finding that one person will likely require you to pass by a bunch of people who fall short (despite nothing being wrong with them). There’s nothing wrong with setting your standards as high as you want them to be, but please spare us the woeful stories of how few options you have to accomplish that goal. When your target is one percent of the population, the chances of you missing your target with each shot is huge. So if you intend to one day hit that 1%, you better get used to accidentally hitting the 99% many times before your aim is perfected.

    P.S. I’m guessing the author didn’t set out to accomplish all the things she’s written about JUST so she could catch a man, so what’s the big deal if men don’t care about your accomplishments? I have family members that have no clue AND no interest in what I do for a living even though it’s a brainiac’s wet dream (IMO), yet they love me despite the differing definitions of cool. Like a previous commenter mentioned, learn to separate personal achievements from relationship traits/qualities –one does not dictate the other.

  • omfg

    @s

    i once heard about a study that found black men were the least likely of all men to marry women with college degrees.

    that seems to feed into the idea that black men are not looking for intellect or anything along those lines.

  • DeadGeese

    Black chicks who read books have bad breath. Smell like water stained wooden chairs. Black chicks wonder why they are single and unmarried. Then when you look at them on the train and their ringless ring finger they look at you with that abused child look. FOH. Being smart is great. But maybe you need to stop messing with guys who just wanna hit. And the reason why the good looking smart black guys arent coming at you guys is because you played them earlier on in life. Wonder why they dating white girls. Bafoons.

  • omfg

    @KeitaWheats

    sorry but, being well-traveled, speaking multiple languages, etc. can put you at a disconnect with people who have not had similar experiences. if that is who you are, who wants to talk to or hang out with people who don’t share those values? you can’t relate.

    this is not elitist. this is natural.

    birds of a feather…

  • DeadGeese

    Chick cant even spell check. FOH

  • omfg

    pathetic? or jealous?

    people are jealous. i read (some of) this and didn’t have an issue with it.

    the writer just has her standards and expectations and values. when you’ve traveled the word or are multilingual, you want someone who shares you values. if you have kids, you want to pass along those values.

    some of this goes straight back to the bourgie article. black americans are just not ready for this type of disposition.

  • OH

    Speaking of dumbing down. Why do some feel the need to write in the manner above?

  • Job

    Because black women are the least likely to graduate college besides Hispanics. Duh. What a dumb study. It doesn’t prove black men don’t value intellect.

  • omfg

    @Pseudonym

    “and it reeks of elitism, which is off-putting coming from a woman who is the first person in her family to graduate from college. It’s not like she grew up in affluence and high brow and therefore has a reason not to relate to IHOP or someone who doesn’t hop around the world on a whim.”

    so, she can’t be the person she is because of her background? because she comes from humble circumstances, she needs to remember her place and her origin and behave in a certain way?

    really?

    i grew up in humble circumstances and i don’t relate to applebees, ihop, chili’s, red lobster or any of those places. i never eat there. my mother, who raised me, would never take me there (she doesn’t go) and doesn’t see me as elitist because i would never eat there. despite my physical upbringing, i was raised to have better taste than that. i grew up with a mother who didn’t allow her child to eat mcdonalds except when she got good grades on a report card.

    if she wants to move away from the hood (mentally) or invest more in the reality/life she has created for herself, she is perfectly entitled to do so.

    she’s earned that right.

    this is the u.s. of a where you can remake yourself on any day. and she is rags to riches. may she have many blessings.

  • omfg

    correction to no. 1.

    degrees don’t get black men. studies have shown this.

  • Barbara

    Let the choir rejoice in this message, thank you. There’s nothing some black people hate more than an educated and wordly black woman whose confidence does not reside in just looks. You have thousands of videos of BW popping their asses going viral and those booty poppers getting praises left and right from both BW and BM for her “skills” yet let a BW be proud in her educational accomplishments and it’s “this bitch is just showing off., “Degrees are so easy to come by” and other nonsense spewed here. What a fucked up culture, indeed.

  • Job

    Knowledge puffs up. Love builds up. There is nothing endearing about being elitist.

  • Factcheck

    Quick fact check to the self hating women above

    For example, among U.S. residents,
    Black females earned 68 percent of associate’s degrees,
    66 percent of bachelor’s degrees
    71 percent of master’s degrees AND
    65 percent of ******* all **********doctor’s degrees awarded to Black students.

    http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72

  • omfg

    @Job

    actually, it is statistically proven that black women outperform black men in college. we graduate at higher rates than black men. theoretically, that means black men have greater access to a black partner (woman) with a degree than a black woman does.

    hispanic rates are barely higher than those of blacks.

    but the fact remains that black men do not choose black women with degrees or black women do not choose black men because they do not have degrees.

  • omfg

    it doesn’t matter deadgeese if black men marry white women.

    interracial marriages involving white women are some of the least successful. in fact, the least successful is between white women and black men.

    enjoy drinking kool aid with your white woman.

  • Pseudonym

    She’s the first person in her family to earn a college degree. She should be able to relate because that was her life until she left for college.

  • DeadGeese

    I actually have a black girlfriend. I dont think white women are better, although i like interracial relationships. I just feel that black women who put out how supposedly valuable they are relative to another women or to the man are stupid and useless. Its usually a problem of the women picking crappy men as opposed to all black men being one way. Its actually a lot sexier when you gradually become cognizant of a woman’s intelligence through conversation where the two click or her occupation that she doesnt rub in your face compared to her acting bourgeois. Reveals a major insecurity. And many a time i have come across black women who put that they are intelligent out there like a flag (girls in sororities for example) and then expose how unintelligent they really are.

    Drink the koolaid…im a nigerian dude with a african american girlfriend idiot.

  • victoria

    Simply, she should date men with the traits that she desires. It’s that easy. If she wishes to date men who are well read, world travelers, multi lingual; basically, who shares her achievements then that is what she should do. Instead of dating men who lack these traits then complain.

    I know many people who expect certain traits from potential partners. Only to date people who dont possess such qualities then complain. I do agree that the author appears to be looking down on those who lack her achievements and share her interests.

    You stated, ”The more you narrow down what you look for in a mate, the harder it will be to come by people who meet that criteria. It has nothing to do with how intimidating you are, or how misunderstood you are. The fact is the one person who is your exact replica probably isn’t stalking you, so finding that one person will likely require you to pass by a bunch of people who fall short (despite nothing being wrong with them). ” I have passed on wonderful men because we didnt share the same interests and achievements. We werent on the same page. But the difference between the author and I is that I didnt date men who didnt share my interests and achievements then complain. I dated men with the traits I desired. I found that majority of these men were non black and this didnt stop me from dating them. Eventually, I married a man who shares my achievements and interests.

    In a nutshell, the author should stop looking down on men who dont share her interests and achievements. Simply, date men with the traits she desires. Problem solved

  • Job

    Big deal. White women earn a higher percentage of degrees than white men as well expect in the STEM fields. Doesn’t make them smarter than anyone else. Philosophy majors have an unemployment rate higher than the national rate. Degrees are easily awarded today especially liberal arts degrees. Just show up and you pass. Going to college doesn’t automatically make you smarter than anyone else. Some of the biggest airheads I know graduated college and they can’t even cook or clean a house, something that even an “uneducated” person can do.

  • Job

    Some people are so eager to pound their chest about accomplishments it’s embarrassing. One mega tool at my job added MBA after her name on her e-mail signature. MBA is not a title or a license. It makes you look like a major loser adding it after your name. It’s lame and people secretly ridiculed her.

  • omfg

    @Pseudonym

    and how long does a black have to relate to this?

    20, 30, 40 years after living in the hood blacks still have to relate to it?

    again, let blacks be self actualized individuals.

    i want nothing to do with the hood even though i was raised there.

  • Job

    @omfg Obviously you are not a math major. If only 12 out of 100 black women have degrees than any man marrying a black woman is NOT likely to marry a woman with a degree. Whether or not the man has a degree doesn’t matter in the results. To contrast lets say that 60 of 100 Asian women have a degree. That means any man marrying an Asian woman will have a greater chance of marrying a woman with a degree. Also real data shows that black women with degrees have higher rate of marriage than non college graduates. So its clear black men prefer college educated women. If you can’t get a man don’t blame your degree.

  • Factcheck

    WTF do white women have to do with anything? Go suck on their clit on a white women’s board then and spoken like a true nigga downplaying education and espousing that bullshit view that women are only good for cooking, cleaning and presumably fucking.

  • Do Better

    Since the title of this article is “Dating While Smart” is there such a thing as “Dating While Stupid”? I’m just saying. To all my bloggers and writers, that may be a great concept for a response post.

    Honestly, I didn’t read through all of the comments. But from what I read, I agree with people who are questioning the tone (and not necessarily the message) of this post. Yes, a black woman can discuss her successes and accomplishments without sounding elitist. But I don’t think this author achieved that.

    From one educated, well-traveled, intelligent black woman to another, I hate to tell you, he just wasn’t that into you.

  • Rochelle

    I didnt really read the article, but JOB you sound like you will do nothing but work a job for the rest of your life. A dead end one at that. Show up for class and pass?In what world? Maybe at ICDC “college.” LMAO. You sound like a hater. Did you go past high school in your education? I bet you did not. Why don’t you work on yourself and then you would not be so bitter about being a nobody in life. You can thank me later for the advice.

  • von

    A couple of years ago the New York Times had an article called “The new math on campus” that discussed the problem of white women attending college in far higher numbers than white men. The women quoted were deeply concerned about their marriage prospects but never felt the need to denigrate white men. They never saw the need to throw the men of their own race under the bus. Had that article been about black women there would have been countless nasty comments about worthless immature black men who lack discipline and don’t value education. It seems that some back women really enjoy throwing black men, as a group, under the bus.

  • Rochelle

    It comes down to this: America dislikes intellect. Black people hate intellect. Most blacks are ok with people “gettin money” by any means necessary even if they had all the tools to achieve greatness in academics. It is respected more if they quit school, sold drugs and came up the hard way. Look at how much love Beyonce’s husband gets. So of course this woman will be attacked. Some men get offended even if you mention that you have multiple degrees. Even if they ASKED and they answered. It is sad. More blk men need to be in someone’s school so they won’t have such low self esteem when it comes to academic accomplishments. The only person that can say “college is bullsh-t” is the person that went to college and graduated. Not the high school or college drop out. How would they know unless they went and graduated? I know they wouldnt. they would just be speaking form insecurity.

  • WTF

    What the hell are you talking about? The author has been called every name in the book except the devil. If black women were to REALLY throw black men under the bus it would be for damn good reason but that was not the case here except in your demented bash black women head.

  • Job

    @Rochelle. Actually I’m an engineer. As shown by the poor understanding of basic statistics and lack of analytical skills on this board many people obviously shouldn’t have graduated. I value education and educated women. Being educated does not hold a women back from marriage. My mom has a masters degree from a prestigious university but that’s not what makes her a great wife and mother. Also my sister is college educated, has sent polymers into space with NASA while in high scholl but is not an elitist snob.

  • Smilez_920

    1) While some of the comments are a little ” strong” people are not upset about the authors accomplishments. If the article was about” black women achieving great things there would have been nothing but praise . It was her tone, as an author Im sure she understands what role a writers voice and tone play in his/her writing.

    2) the title kind of set her up for the ” elitist, smug etc” comments along with the tone. ” Dating while Smart”.

    3) I read the article twice. After the second read I interpreted the author as being flustrated that she was investing her time into exploring this mans interests while he didnt even make the effort to try and explore ( even if he did’nt like them) interest. While my partner doesn’t have to share all of my interest , I would like him to make the effort to at least try them.

    4) sometimes we get mad at people for being exactly who they are, but expect people to except us for who we are.

    5)As someone with a cousin who is married and currently pursuing her PHD , you can be your intellectual cool self and some one will love you for it. The key word is someone not everyone. Your going to bump into a few frogs before you find a prince sometimes. And even your intellectual equal who accomplishments are equal to yours might not be into all of the same things your into.

    5) as far as your friend and the ” IHoP date”. Just like you tested your boo to see if he was interested in your lifestyle , maybe your friends date was doing the same.

  • Job

    I went to a top engineering school and graduated. College did not teach me how to be a better person. It taught me engineering. Going to school doesn’t make you a better person and shouldn’t make you look down on others. It’s a privilege that the majority of Americans will never experience.

  • OH

    By looking at the reaction of this article I am not surprised at the current state of the black community.

  • Rochelle

    Everyone is a rocket science college grad on the internet. Good luck to you.

  • Rochelle

    Job, i bet you are very unattractive. Are you turned down a lot by black women. No one would try to down play a black woman’s accomplishment so much unless they are lacking in other aspects. You sound hurt. Don’t worry, someone will like you……someday.

  • Rochelle

    I know. This “Job” character is an arseclown. Job is an unattractive blk man that has been turned down a lot. He is hurt. Don’t be too hard on him Factcheck.

  • useless middle class

    Excuse me but I’m not seeing anything in this writing that justifies its authors use of the word ‘smart’ in reference to herself.

    All I’m seeing is a narcissistic snob with about as much depth as a kiddie’s wading pool. and about as smart as a concussion.

    Lot of this in the black community, so called middle class negros who are comprehensively outperformed by their class “peers” in non-black communities, so they go “slumming” in the most impoverished quarters of the BC because it’s only in juxtaposition to those there that (think) they shine.

    Another example of this is “good black man” syndrome. “Good black man” only compares himself to (black) men he thinks are failures because his own “accomplishments” are so meager that he himself looks like a failure compared to those who are functional.

    Why don’t you people go compare yourself to the white and Asian middle class who pool their COLLECTIVE smarts to take political economic and cultural control of the places they settle?

    Where is our trailblazing black middle class who are showing the way by demonstrating their competence at beating out our competitors in this dog eat dog society?

    No – these bastards simply jump ship and then try to STOWAWAY among people who don’t want em until they get caught and thrown out. That’s when they come back running around black people chattin bout -

    “dating while smart”

    Take this broom and duster and get to work, that’s the only work you’re qualified for here.
    .

  • Apple

    Damn I missed the train wreck

  • p

    Rap music and hip hop @von…and stfu!

  • p

    *sigh*

    Its like the book *Invisible Man*……invisible to whom?!

  • OH

    You didn’t miss much except the usual self hating women and the trolls who love them tearing a black woman down. SSDD

  • http://www.datinghotlove.com manbros

    My opinion is that all the persons are having something special given by Allah and should use accordingly.

  • Medusa

    Yeah, and if I’m going to be perfectly honest, I didn’t think it was very well written at all. Passive voice, convoluted sentences, and rambling. Someone who is bragging about being so educated and a great writer should definitely be on top of that shit.

  • KR

    Only 18% of black women have a bachelor’s degree that’s not even 2 out of 10 black women! The number of masters and doctoral degrees is minute and most of those are in liberal arts.

    The black community doesn’t need anymore black men or women with degrees in Liberal Arts or Liberal Study. Sorry, not needed.

  • Racial

    You all miss a critical point. The author is first generation. It’s like people with new money who flaunt it and don’t know how to manage it properly. Clearly, there is some sort of entitlement associated with feeling that you’ve arrived, especially when you’re the first to make it. I went to a decent enough school, but so did my mother. (No I am not saying all people who are new to something have a complex but I’ve seen it enough to recognize it) I was taught that my degree was important, but all people have value. Does that make them all dating prospects? No! But maybe a man takes you to get pancakes on a Sunday after church because 1. He actually went to church and 2. He was not trying to creep over the house at booty call hours. Some men increase the caliber of the experience as the dates progress. Why spend Cipriani money on a person who can’t appreciate the fact that you spent time and money to take her to get pancakes? I bet she spent the entire date texting her friends about how lame he was. I’ve had more than one good looking successful man take me for tea and a muffin the first time we go out. At least she got eggs…. My point is that tea and muffin soon turned into trips abroad because I was humble, appreciative, and good company.

  • KR

    @Ask Me

    A successful black man in his 30′s or 40′s might have 99 problems but getting a (megan goode type) woman ain’t one. ;-)

  • Breitling

    I am not from the US but I did study in Chicago for a Master’s degree. I can say without the shadow of a doubt that I can relate to what the author wrote in her piece. During my university days, I rarely met any black person in the engineering classes I attended; when it happenned, it was foreigners like me (from Africa mostly, I am from Haiti).

    After a few months, I “adapted” to the rules of the dating scene but it was obvious to me that dating a black woman on campus or outside was going to be difficult to say the least. The reason being that most of them (I tried a few times) were not into anything remotely intellectual (from conversations to things like arts, theater museums and the like). Let’s be clear, I was no nerd but these women were mostly interested in what a friend of mine called “rough necks” (fake or genuine ones). One day, I even overheard in a bus near campus a guy (ghetto looking, awful speaking etc.) boasting for everybody to hear and using very crude words how he got to sleep with one student (black) he met for the first time at a party at a dormitory. Basically, that was the kind of man they wanted and I suppose it was because, for them, these men represented (in a weird kind of way) the quintessential “black man”.

    Of course, it is not each and every black woman that fit this description (hence the article) but we have to agree that as a group, we are more “physical” than “brainy” and we do have a tendency to look down on our own people who are naturally interested into matters of the mind as if it was some sort of “weakness”. I can easily understand that my experience could have happenned to a woman. Unfortunately, black women in the US for reasons ranging to “peers’ approval” to slavery history are more reluctant to date outside their ethnic group which is exactly the contrary for men (I ended up dating Lituanian, German, Philippino and Mexican women on campus!)

  • Guest1234

    @Rochelle

    LMAO!!! So true. So true. On the black sites, either they’re a rocket scientist, or their kid is and was always teased for “acting white” but now they make $1 billion a year and their tormentors are all on crack and wish they had bowed to the kid’s superiority….. blah, blah, blah!

    That was a good laugh. Thanks for pointing that out.

  • Princess Di

    Absolutely fantastic!

  • http://gravatar.com/rastaman1967 Rastaman

    February 2012 – NYT
    More than 30 percent of American adults hold bachelor’s degrees, a first in the nation’s history, and women are on the brink of surpassing men in educational attainment, the Census Bureau reported.

    As of last March, 30.4 percent of people over age 25 in the United States held at least a bachelor’s degree, and 10.9 percent held a graduate degree, up from 26.2 percent and 8.7 percent 10 years earlier.

    Among Hispanics, the share of adults holding bachelor’s degrees grew from 11.1 percent in 2001 to 14.1 percent last year, and among blacks it climbed from 15.7 percent to 19.9 percent. But the distinction rose even faster among non-Hispanic whites, from 28.7 percent to 34 percent.

    Asian-Americans remain the nation’s best-educated racial group, with 50.3 percent having bachelor’s degrees, and 19.5 percent holding graduate degrees.

    The figures come from the Census Bureau’s annual Current Population Survey, and were released along with a series of reports taken from another ongoing canvass, the American Community Survey. One of those, examining major fields of study, shows that taken together, engineering and science are the most common areas for bachelor’s degrees, representing 34.9 percent of the total.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/education/census-finds-bachelors-degrees-at-record-level.html?_r=0

  • Bria

    I feel the exact same way. Education was very important to me, because my mother made it that way, so when I received my Master’s degree at the age of 22, she was more excited and proud than me ( I was more tired, and happy it was over). She doesn’t have her Masters and I’m the first in the family to have gotten that far at such a young age.

    Now that I’m 23, and out dating, I don’t expect every man to have their Master’s, and I don’t look down on those who might not have gone to college or finished, for that matter. I feel like as long as he’s respectful of me, appreciative of me and my company we are on the same page. I don’t have to talk about all of the many books I’ve read, or the fact that I worked on Capitol Hill, NBC, and other accomplishments.

    That doesn’t matter, what matter is him, and I and what we like to do, and our goals! It seems as though the author just wants some recognition, and attention, but for me I don’t want a man’s attention, that’s for children, I want his commitment.

  • Kacey

    “Actually I’m an engineer.”

    @Job: I Don’t Believe You!!! And neither does anyone else who has read your rantings.

    I find that the people most outraged by the audacity of those with degrees are those who don’t have one at all!

  • http://gravatar.com/cocovabarbie KemaVA

    “Taking a woman to IHOP on a first date seems like the perfect move to weed out a certain type of woman.”

    When a woman is genuinely interested the venue doesn really matter. I have told my sons to take girls out to ice cream for a first date for this reason.

  • P

    What the hell are you talking about @Kr? Your response to (my reply) doesn’t make sense at all. Within this article the lady is frustrated because her potential mate isn’t meeting HER standards. And my point is if you choose to settle, it will turn out worse than what you had anticipated. Since I never said how I settled (in the past), you choose the low road and ask if that’s the best I can do? Now I know you can do better than that. Out of all the ways in which a man and a woman can settle you place an emphasis on a lot of women being botty calls, jump offs and baby mamas? Hmm…that’s interesting. Why go there? While it may be true that has never been my world or several other women I know. If you or anyone else chooses to be any of the above, more power to YOU. Do what you do! A woman can settle by engaging with a man with different religious preferences, interests, education or hobbies.

    Since you are trying to take peek into my life, here’s a lil something for you. At that particular time in my life, he wasn’t on the same level as I was spiritually (simple and plain). Kr, that’s one for you to add along with intellect and not jumping directly to a woman settling to the likes of being a botty call, jump off, or a baby mama.

    Now, I need you to dobetter and explain exactly what I need to be an adult about? I have no regrets, only lessons to teach. You may proceed…

  • ASK_ME

    Right, I guess that’s why this blog is now home to such people. who come here itching and complaining about ALL black women not picking them. Try again!

  • http://gravatar.com/cocovabarbie KemaVA

    “but white men tend to be VERY selective about the black women they have serious relationships with.”

    Men period are very selective when it comes to SERIOUS relationships. Black, White, white collar or blue

  • Kim

    With all your education and accomplishments why did you date a guy that in your opinion was not on your level and not interested in you or your work/life interests?

    Your degrees, world travels, and other accomplishments are quite admirable but the tone of your story was very snide.

    The guy obviously lacked ambition along with any redeeming qualities so how did he get permission to stay the night at your place????

  • Crystal

    But why is being exactly who you are showing off. Like if I’m into quantum physics, I can’t talk about it because that would be showing off. No, it’s just a part of me. I’ve learned you can either accept me (and all of me) or leave me to encounter someone who can.

  • m

    Definition of a troll: Any black man or woman who violates the rules of the echo chamber by refusing to demonize black men and has the temerity to claim that not all black women are of high quality.

  • MISS_EMCEE

    He had to look good. Fine men can get away with not being college educated and multi cultured. She was like just sit there and look pretty lol.

  • http://chennadoll.tumblr.com pinklipstick227

    Thank you. I can’t understand why he was allowed to take a shower in the first place. I understand that it is hard to meet men in general who are “on your level,” but why entertain a man who lacks the same ambition that you have?

  • Kim

    She had a laundry list of issues with him (and an even longer list of great things about herself) yet he still spent the night. She did not mention his looks ever. I agree with you. He must have been fine.

    If you don’t want a fool to stay over, tell him goodnight as you show him to the door. If he refuses to leave, simply call 911. No more bad dates with the loser ever again. She apparently went out with him for a while – too long if you ask me, lol.

  • http://gravatar.com/cocovabarbie KemaVA

    “The guy that I am dating now (and am head-over-hills for) doesn’t even have a college degree (gasp! He went the military route instead), but he is very loving, attentive, and he knows how to fix stuff! ”

    Now thats what I need in my life! Its called finding your compliment. I dont need to find my equal (read:exactly like me). Reminds me of this post:

    http://alltherightquestions.com/do-you-want-an-equal-or-a-complement/#comments

  • LMAO

    sounds like she’s salty she picked someone who wasn’t really right for her.

  • Courtney**

    Definition of a troll: Any person who violates the rules of basic human decency by demonizing black women and has the temerity to claim that all black women are of low quality.

    There. Fixed that for you.

  • Nic

    @Pseudonym, I did say the article was long-winded but my point remains that people get upset when educated, successful black women talk about having difficulty dating.
    No one maligns white or asian women who don’t want to date uneducated, financially unstable men (b/c their expectation is for a man to be a provider, or at least a contributor, and not a freeloader) but if a black women does it, she is wrong apparently.

    People have no problem listing all of the problems they have with black women and why they won’t date them, but when the shoe is on the other foot, even other women get all ruffled.

    This wasn’t the best way to express her point but it doesn’t make her point any less valid. And no, I don’t have an issue with her premise, or listing her credentials, but I think she could have given the background of the man, and what is is like when you try to date down, b/c it is no picnic and it’s something other educated women should think about.

    What sounds silly is how long she let him hang around when it seems as if she should have known to pass on him the first time that they met.

    So it perhaps sounds disingenuous to complain about him but keep him around long enough for all of these things to happen.

    She worked hard for what she got, she should be proud, and she should sing it to the rooftops, but I think the main premise of her story didn’t require so much of her back story…

  • Rochelle

    SMH is a good name for you becasue that is what I am doing when I read your foolishness. I never mentioned anything about my degrees. Of course there is a difference between an education and intellect, BUT when you talk about one you most likly talk about the other. Lets take a simple college education. Shoot, a freakin associates degree. THat is what most black men and women lack. That is a fact. Half of American black men can’t even graduate high school. I hope you see a problem with that. To address intellect, I doubt a high school drop out is planning his next trip to the museum or galla or inventing the next great gadget. No he is probably right now at the welfare office arguing over the amount of food stamps he gets or “hugging them corners” like Jay z used to do.
    Now how do you know anything about my degrees or how smart I am. Exactly, you don’t. So how can you compare me to Jay-Z? Exactly, you can’t. But it is not surprising that you would look up to somene like him. Low self esteem blacks often do. What does his “body of work” have anything to do with his education. Just cause he can put down 16 bars and make some money doesnt make him smart. But dumb dumbs like you probably think that anyone singing a song, shaking their arse, making “dat paper” and rapping about “dem streets” is someone to aspire to. I feel sorry for black people like you. I hope you don’t have any children. If so, they are screwed.
    Focus on bettering yourself instead of idolizing people singing a song. Your life will be much better.

  • Isabelle

    Forget this dumb “smart” person. Who is the model in the photo and where can I find more pictures of her?

  • Rochelle

    Did you graduate high school? You sound very bitter and angry.Why don’t you go back to school so you can like the person starring you in the mirror. It is better than thinking what a loser and failure you are in life. I am rooting for you:)

  • Me

    You must have forgotten about America’s history of discrimination against women. Men aren’t inherently smarter. Historically they have just been given more opportunities and now that the playing field is somewhat level, women are catching up. Don’t mistake the fact that one group has been held down as another’s superiority.

    I don’t necessarily agree with the authors tone or content but you don’t need to bash her or women in general. History should have taught you something.

  • Fancypants

    “head-over-heels” Wow, I missed that!

  • Furious_styles

    Kalisha Buckingham, I also tried to empathize with your dating plight, for all the aforementioned reasons in previous responses, you are unlikeable. That is all I have to say. Ditto to all suggestions given here in the comments section.

  • Tallulah Belle

    I am a very highly-educated Black woman who sold a well known clothing manufacturing firm to a South American holding company about eight years ago. I am now part of a mobile tech startup team in Qatar. And, you know what? I LOVE IHOP!!! Any man who takes me there on a first date gets points from me ! When I first moved to NY, back in the Tribe Called Quest days, lots of us would go to IHOP (even QTip went) when we had the serious munchies. Usually we would file into the one uptown around 6 am after a long night of hanging out. I love cool, fun, artsy, warm, kind, loving, intellectual men — and they usually dig IHOP. It’s just a lot of fun. I especially like when the waitresses bring the pancakes with the banana slice smiley face on them. I pour on the Boysenberry syrup, after I pry the plastic container loose from the table. And, when I was a tot, my brother and I used to crayon on the placemats. I LOVE IHOP. Pass your hot, loving, jazz musician man my way. Even though I already have a loving wonderful brilliant man, it sounds like one of my funky, artsy genius gals would love him !!

  • Furious_styles

    “I read it as a brief commentary on the difficulties that accomplished black women encounter in a world that has [negative] preconceived notions of them. it’s about balance and acceptance, and trying to be yourself amid people who may be uncomfortable with that because of their own issues.”

    Looks like very few people disagree about the theme around the struggle of the educated black woman in the dating marketplace. It’s real. It’s the intent behind this piece. It’s the supercilious “I’m so beneath this guy (and others)” vibe. As a man who reads and thinks, I know that it doesn’t serve me to date and write off women who can’t quote WEB DuBois, or who recognize the b-sides of golden-age 70s soul. Nobody cares how much you know until they know that you care. The problem with many blerds is not that they’re intelligent, it is that they can get sanctimonious, self-righteous, and unrelatable. And that’s a choice. Ask me how I know.
    This piece was all about how this guy sucks and it all just happened to me. It invites controversy and defensiveness.

    I’m just sayin’.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    You are both right, you both may have one cookie each and a cup of juice.

  • http://gravatar.com/mimiandy1683 MimiLuvs

    My family is littered with them (men and women) and they all complain about how difficult it is to find someone on their wave-length.

  • Gail

    I am a black female and totally agree. I could barely read the article, it was so cringe worthy, the arrogance of this lady. I think its pretty funny she couldn’t figure out why it didn’t work. Uh… you didn’t HAVE to go on a date with him but you still did. That was your own choice. Don’t blame him. I agree with some of the other comments, you may have thought you were testing him with all your “bookwormness” but honey he might have been doing the same. Maybe he wanted a simple “focus-only-on-you” type atmosphere for a first date, not a “watch all the non-Mabachs park next to my Mabach” type crap.

  • Me

    Because discrimination against women is still a real thing in 2013!!! You probably don’t even check for accomplished black women anyhow just to make sure you are only aware of accomplished black males. In 20-30 years, not that today’s women have a relatively equal chance, we’ll see if your “fact” holds true.

  • Me

    And just to add to that, I think what may be behind the “fact” that you came up with are today’s still archaic views/regulations for women who have children but have an unequal (read:greater) share of the child care even past the breastfeeding age. People are now still getting on board with paternity leave and companies and universities are still working out having on campus child care (that is affordable). A lot of people, men and women, still have this “traditional” view of child rearing and ultimately that may be the explanation of differences in accomplishments. If the roles were switched, if what you claim is actually true, the opposite would be a reality.

    I still doubt highly doubt that it is true anyway.

  • Pingback: Dating While Smart: Extra Hard for Black Women | OTS Networks

  • Mila

    What did she mean by “I wish I was nurse”? I bet most nurses are cashing in checks bigger than her book royalities. I really tried to relate but that line kinda threw me off for the rest of the article. Being a nurse is honest work and is surely more important and needed than being a fiction-book author. I hope she isn’t living beyond her means with this “themed library in every room” and her focus on being flashy and pedantic. Seriously though, books in the bathroom? To get messed up by steam and microscopic fecal matter? And how long are you in the bathroom to browse for a book to read?

    I could just imagine what your resume looks like because you tooted your own horn very well. Just because you know some history doesn’t make you an expert in it or historian. If that was the case I would be an historian, a mathematician, an anthropologist, a physicist, a chemist, and an engineer.

  • bsbfankaren

    I find it extremely odd, so please excuse my response. Why is it that the only thing you take out of this entire essay is that she doesn’t want to be taken to IHOP on a first date?

  • bsbfankaren

    I have to disagree with you. Women have to have standards just as men do, yet only women get a hard time for it. The guy she was dating was only interested in the physical her and made that obvious when he showed absolutely no interest in what she did for a living. Honestly, is it just that you’re posting anonymously online, are do you really, really not get what this lady is talking about?

  • bsbfankaren

    I’m going to go against the responses I’m seeing here, and state emphatically that I agree with the author. I tried dating men that had no interests in my love of words or my educational pursuits, because I believed what keeps getting posted over and over again, that we black women have standards that are too high, only to find that dumbing myself down to be in a relationship was not only unfulfilling but left me extremely angry. It is better to date less, then to enter into relationships with men that one truly has nothing in common with. Oh, and I to would be pretty steamed if someone took me to IHOP (or whatever pancake house) on a first date, and I had to sit around for two hours waiting for a table. That tells me that the man I am with has no respect for my time, and therefore no respect for me. Kudos to the author for being true to herself, and not settling for less than what she brings to the dating table.

  • Rochelle

    You seem to think u know a lot about me. LOL. Well, wrong, wrong, wrong! You stalking me on these boards? Its funny. You’re just some letters on a computer screen to me but you seem to know ALL about me, huh? You have a pic of what I look like in your head? U dreaming about me? Listen, next time grow folks are discussing things on this board, you should shut your mouth. It is obvious you look up to rappers and the like. Sorta like a HS student. Stay to your adolescent convos.

  • Rochelle

    It’s Mrs. Rochelle to you. LOL. Ill make it easier. You can call me your superior. Shouldnt you be studing for your GED?.

  • Pingback: Dating While Smart: Extra Hard for Black Women |

  • Stanley

    @Rochelle How is this helping you?

  • Ty

    Yeah, she has an overrated opinion of herself .

  • Doc Hodges Phd L.I.G. (Life In General)

    Rubbish!! I can’t tell you how many times I have been “unfriended” on “facebook”, not because I was spewing a lot of “surppy” nonsense about how much I loved them, and wanted to marry them (all though in a few cases that may have been true), no I was “unfriended) because I dared to engage their supposed intellect. Twice in the past, in my coed chasing days, I remember going over to a sister’s pad to jump on her beautiful bones. Not wanting to be a “wham bam” kind of guy; I started off in casual conversation, on two ocassions that i remember, the conversation turned adversaeral my point against hers,I was always able to leave them with nothing to say, after making my point, only to end up being urged to get my hat. This nonsense that the Black man is resentful of an educated Black woman is just that nonsense, spread by Zionist Negro moles inside the Black community. WAKE UP YOU NITIWTS!!

  • http://terrifrancisphd.wordpress.com/ Terri Francis

    Hi Kalisha! This is so exciting to see your work. I remember talking to you at the UofC about a course on Black Love in the movies! Wow. I was too excited to continue reading but will now continue. Oh wonderful success! — Terri

  • Do Better

    Yeah. I had to read that a couple of times to understood what she meant. Her writing style in this piece was a little hard to get through. I think she meant that being a nurse requires training, a particular tangible skillset, and relies on “concrete” concepts. Being a writer and thinker (as she puts it), is much more abstract. While both require a particular skill set, you can still be successful as a writer without formal training. There is no certification process or credential required to call yourself a thinker or a writer.

  • Do Better

    Exactly, the title was problematic to me. However, it was consistent with the rest of the story (her being educated and trying to date). But, perhaps it was selected to drive traffic to the site and post. Controversy will get you clicks and comments. So far, she’s gotten 194 and this one will make 195. Although I haven’t read every page of comments, I haven’t seen a response from the author. I don’t know about everyone else, but I’d be really interested in seeing her response to some of what was written.

  • tish

    hmmm. muy interesante!

    me:–oberlin, penn (master’s), GWU (doctorate); published (peer-reviewed articles, dissertation and a book),approachable, emphatic homie, luva-friend “chocolate” cutie and a booty like “whoa!”– who knows the difference between a “tawny port and twerking on a pole”, and the operational definitions of “statistical significance, sommelier, and supposition.

    he- columbia, penn medical; can code switch on a dime; and effortless vacillates between “coltrane”, “wu tang”, “my little pony” and idiopathic sinus tachycardia.

    we- married, with children and a library so extensive it now spills in the garage

    i’d provide some thoughts about why the tone, content and primary thesis of this diatribe is recycled, cliche’ and a bit well…tired…

    but my kids are jumping on my head to go to iHOp.

    peace and blessing, sis….

    ps.

    hope you like cats.

  • MMHMM

    How can you compare your experience as a black intellectual woman with that of any woman of any race. I’m sure its much more complex that the generalization you made. This happens to women of all races, economic status, intellect level, cultures, etc etc…

    “To some extent, the heart of this matter is that my girlfriends and I have crossed paths with close-minded individuals.”

    This whole article is very close-minded…perhaps there’s a problem with the men you attract or how you present yourself and your desires to the men. There are several THOUGHTFUL men that enjoy THOUGHT-PROVOKING conversation. And those are typically the most creative men.

    But what is so wrong about going to an ihop? If the conversation and chemistry was there, I would enjoy it and even joke about the venue so he would know to step his game up the next time. It’s a light place that isn’t too awkward and intimate with a person you barely know. Get over it.

    Aaaaaaaand lastly, your nurse comment makes you sound rather pretentious and condescending to various types of professions as if a nurse can’t be smart and date and experience your same frustrations….GOODBYE.

    I’m genuinely convinced the issue is you. Not that you’re ‘intelligent’ and like watching jeopardy, not because you enjoy books, not because ‘our’ men don’t put in the effort and you would experience better if you and your counterpart were of another race…It’s You. Your perception of your experiences. Many men find intellect sexy, cowards find it intimidating. Look at the men you’re choosing and your expectations. A good guy can love your intellect, take you to ihop, and have the best conversation ever. But because it was IHOP you’d knock him?

  • Michele

    The writer is so full of herself. She failed to acknowledge her part in dating a man who was sketchy about his real age, his income, and other facts but somehow he ended up spending the night at her house.

    The tone of this article was overly negative and the writing was not that great. I would suggest the writer, historian, and world traveler who can recognize Coltrane within seconds learn humility and make wiser choices in men.

  • Lola Wants

    Despite that this post smacks of elitism I agree that many educated Black women have a problem finding eligible black men with the same level of education. I also agree that the media still projects a negative, distorted view of black female femininity. But the author teeters on sounding whiny about why no one appreciates her vast intellect and how few can match up. Yes, it’s nice that you have traveled the world and have attended private educational institutions but not everyone gets this privilege. So excuse the 95% of people in this world who can’t recognize Mozart since they might be busy surviving. Most white men I know can’t recognize Mozart let alone Black men so this is not something that is entirely limited to them.

    I am an educated Black woman currently pursuing two graduate degrees but I recognize that there are differing levels of intellect and I have met intelligent, open minded men who have not been to college or have a graduate degree. They have regular jobs and I would not dismiss them because they decided to take me to IHOP on a first date (maybe that’s all he could afford at the time.) I am not dismissing your claim because a lot of black women speak of how men react negatively to their intelligence instead of embracing it and it is not hard to believe since America is very dismissive of ambitious, assertive, intelligent women. For the most part I have not had this problem, most men are attracted to my intelligence and interestingly enough it is the “educated” black men who are most threatened by it. I imagine it is because they are heralded so much as the anomaly that a challenge to their intellect is a threat to their egos.

  • Dee

    write a book! I love your style!!!!

  • Lola Wants

    Despite that this post smacks of elitism I agree that many educated Black women have a problem finding eligible black men with the same level of education. I also agree that the media still projects a negative, distorted view of black female femininity. But the author teeters on sounding whiny about why no one appreciates her vast intellect and how few can match up. Yes, it’s nice that you have traveled the world and have attended private educational institutions but not everyone gets this privilege. So excuse the 95% of people in this world who can’t recognize Mozart since they might be busy surviving. Most white men I know can’t recognize Mozart let alone Black men so this is not something that is entirely limited to them.

    I am an educated Black woman currently pursuing two graduate degrees but I recognize that there are differing levels of intellect and I have met intelligent, open minded men who have not been to college or have a graduate degree. They have regular jobs and I would not dismiss them because they decided to take me to IHOP on a first date (maybe that’s all he could afford at the time.) I am not dismissing your claim because a lot of black women speak of how men react negatively to their intelligence instead of embracing it and it is not hard to believe since America is very dismissive of ambitious, assertive, intelligent women. For the most part I have not had this problem, most men are attracted to my intelligence and interestingly enough it is the “educated” black men who are most threatened by it. I imagine it is because they are heralded so much as the anomaly that a challenge to their intellect is a threat to their egos.

    Your snobby attitude will ensure that you are alone for a long time unless you rectify it or find someone else as snobbish and elitist as yourself.

  • Mila

    Yeah I got it eventually. Her implication also seems to be that people who are nurses aren’t “thinkers” or interested in anything worldly or artistic; that if she was one he would have known immediately that they weren’t compatible.

  • http://majmuse.net Michael

    This article has been very helpful… I love going to I-Hop (although I can afford to go to any restaurant in the city); I love to read and write in the large booth space, I love the sound of happy children; I like the “regular” people who work there, and the “regular” people who eat there. They in many ways remind me of the “regular folks” who worked in the cafeteria of my Ivy league school; which means they were a constant reminder of why I was in school; to learn how to serve them, to stay “regular”. This reminder and their constant encouragement hopefully prevented me from suffering from (what the old folks warned of as I set off for college) “bigheadedness”. The food at I-Hop “taste” good because I can make a qualitative adjustment (based on where I am). But the reason this article is so useful; it suggest that an invitation to eat at a “lower tier” restaurant may serve as an excellent filter of “bigheaded” thinking.

  • Rochelle

    WTF are you talking bout Stanley? Can I help you?

  • IJS

    @Tish… I think you’re life is what the writer is looking for. Someone who can relate to her intellect, her culture, any and every way they mesh together. I have friends with the same life; married to a “down” and educated brother who can not only alternate across worlds but define their own. While her piece was a little snide, I understood that she simply wants someone she can relate to. As a fellow blerd, we simply want what you have and are realizing what aspects of our personality and culture are most important in choosing a mate… and it’s not necessarily race based.

  • Pingback: Dating While Smart: Extra Hard for Black Women | TheJusticeTeam

  • Mila

    YES!!! With her books in the bathroom!!

  • http://www.reginaldedmund.com Reginald Edmund

    I think this article is kinda fitting for both black men and women that might not fit into the norm. An educated negro is for some reason scary whether it comes a socket or a plug. However I also feel that this writer is coming off rather… big-headed, pompous, selfishly egotistic… I’m trying to think of other words aside from bougie bitch. I’ll just go with uppity. I’m a nationally multi-award winning writer, but atleast I know that one has to negotiate the line. Not everyone I encounter will be on my level mentally, not everyone I know share a romantic involvement with will be able to stand on an equal play field with me accomplishment wise either. I accept what they are able to bring forward to the table. The writer of this article just seems mean spirited and in my opinion seems like she’s to blame for her own loneliness. Who cares if someone takes you out to IHOP, it’s a damn recession. Be happy someone is taking you out and paying the bill. It’s just a matter of being appreciative of the moment that one shares with another.

  • http://gravatar.com/harlemworld4eva harlemworld4eva

    Actually they do.

  • http://gravatar.com/harlemworld4eva harlemworld4eva

    Thank you D. Couldn’t have said it better myself. Where on earth would this woman get the idea that she can’t find a black man her “speed?” Not to mention educated black men are this country’s sworn enemy. she needs to go back to “finishing” school.

  • LucyLadyLeigh

    As a recent Obie alumnus, your short comment makes me feel tingly about my future.
    And the belief that I will marry a partner.
    Thank you for your comment

  • tish

    i’m not so sure she’s looking for what i have. if so, then
    she’s more than welcomed to:

    1- pick up his dirty underwear,

    2- deal with the fact that he often doesn’t wear underwear on the weekends (seriously, he’s done this since residency,and i’m clueless as to why) LOL…

    3-deal with his overbearing and incessantly histrionic mother…and

    4-deal with the fact that at times, he’s the most annoying ,ornery, cantankerous SOB on the planet.

    the points that i attempted to make in my original post was that

    1- there are men who are not intimidated by “smart, beautiful women” and can actually get down with a little “crepes du jour special, with a side of bacon” (wait, isn’t that french???); yet are not into women with the dating competency of a prep-school girl from the hamptons

    2- iHOP actually makes great food! as a matter of fact, i know a group of physicians in the DC area who actually have their weekly business meeting at ….hold up now..IHOP!!!

    3- the fantasy that the perfect dude is a hybrid adonis/ einstien with a splash of casanova who has mental wet-dreams over her book collection, is immature and extremely superficial.

    also, i’m sure she’s dated equally educated and cultured men as my husband, who have been dismissed and placed in her recycle bin because he wasn’t “perfect.”

  • tish

    perhaps she should date a colorectal surgeon. he’d suggest removing all that reading material from the bathroom as it encourages prolonged sitting, which leads to ‘rhoids..

  • useless middle class

    Wow

    they’re all coming out of the woodwork, establishing their high-faluting credentials before they set about “correcting sista girls thinking”.

    Every one of these clowns is as condescending and obnoxious as gurrlfiriend

    We the “little people” don’t need your “help” thanks.

    Now can we find a few genuinely SMART people who can trash this junk without stooping to sista girl’s level?

    sheesh!

    The more this goes on the more embarrassing it gets.

  • http://gravatar.com/bglh LN

    I am *horrified* by this article.

    I’m a black woman, married to a black man. He went to an East Coast Ivy League school. I went to a top-ranked Midwestern school. He works in finance. I work in tech/online media. We actually just bought Jeopardy for Xbox a couple months ago. We travel internationally. He devours books. We earn a good living.

    And we both DO NOT find it *rare* or surprising to come across other intelligent, educated, well-read black people. And we would NEVER assume that white people are automatically better cultured. (We both had a diverse set of college roommates, and in both cases we were the nerdiest of the bunch)

    Why do we not find it rare? Because we attended college with intelligent black people, we work with intelligent black people, our families consist of intelligent black people. We don’t have the arrogance and audacity to think — let alone vocalize — that we are prized or rare.

    I think this is a classic case of big fish/small pond. Maybe because she’s a writer and she works from home (I’m assuming) she doesn’t get out and meet other people of color. Maybe she doesn’t know that black nerd culture (of which my tech-obsessed, technical-manual reading, advanced stats loving husband is a proud part) is on the rise. And that there are TONS of men who find education and intelligence sexy.

    What she didn’t address is how — if she’s so smart and well-read (which she goes through PAINS in this VERY long article to make clear) — she ended up with a poorly educated dude who doesn’t share her interests. So she knows Mozart and the Sophocles’ tetralogies, but she can’t tell when a dude isn’t worth her time?

  • Golden

    As a nurse, I feel downplayed, as if it’s totally inconceivable to have an intellectually stimulating, artistic boyfriend? Well, I have mine, so I guess I’m lucky.

  • Golden

    Did you not read?
    She’s written two…

    there’s your audience, author

  • Kema

    Lol! I can tell Job is very analytical and probably is an engineer. Job you will never ‘win’ a debate with people that don’t value facts and logic the way you do. As a mathematician I appreciated your pointing out the flaws in some of the stats posted here to prove black men don’t value education.

  • me

    church!!

  • Lola Wants

    “So she knows Mozart and the Sophocles’ tetralogies, but she can’t tell when a dude isn’t worth her time?”

    Exactly! All that book smarts but limited emotional intelligence.

  • me

    He was either the hottest guy that talked to her before or she has low esteem (which based on this article, isn’t the case).

  • tish

    sophocles made me want to shank random folks. impress me with the illiad, in greek.

  • Tallulah Belle

    That is not the only thing I took away from the article. It is however, the only thing on which I chose to comment. You are excused.

  • Mademoiselle

    I agree with most of your comment, but a minor correction: her nurse comment was that she wishes she were a nurse so that (because she’d be wearing identifiable scrubs) men would automatically know she’s highly educated and (presumably) only approach her if they came with all of her qualifications in tow. It’s still a stupid theory, but I just wanted to point out that she wasn’t talking down about nurses, she was still just bashing men who dare to give less than a damn about how smart she is.

  • Details

    The date wasn’t at IHOP (International House of Pancakes), it was at the Original House of Pancakes. Critique away, some of it is well deserved, but lets at least get the facts right.

  • Allison Bell

    Bad dates turned into good dates once I learned to relax and stop talking soooo much. When I was in my late 20′s, I felt the need to display the breadth and depth of my intelligence on the first date as if I was the only person who ever read a book, traveled, was socially conscious, listened to jazz and classical music or could appreciate fine dining. In retrospect, the behavior was condescending and my date couldn’t get a word in. God in his infinite wisdom gave us two ears and one mouth. The best way the get to know another person is to listen. I no longer feel the need to explain myself when someone makes an inaccurate assumption about me based on a stereotype. I also learned over time that experiencing life rather than over-indulging in television viewing and other forms of media renders me oblivious to the false images used to attack black womanhood.

  • ASK_ME

    I just want to know when was the last time some of you people went to a buppie party? I mean a REAL party full of educated black professionals.

    I’m married. I went to a buppie party two weeks ago with my husband and I noticed a few things.

    1). 90% of the guest at the party were black women. The other 10% was black men. My husband was the only non-black person in the room.

    2). The men sat on one side of the room and the women sat on another side of the room…waiting for the men to approach.

    The next time my husband and I went to a buppie party he invited two of his friends to join us. Those to men (both white) walked into the room and immediately began engaging the women in the room. They became the life of the party while all the black men looked on…clearly disturbed by the audacity of the two men.

    It is NOT easy for educated professional black women to meet men of their liking. These women should be attaching themselves to the “Ben Carsons” of the black community but those men are NOT without their issues (i.e., social awkwardness etc)…especially those born post 1980.

    So, show the author a little sympathy. Everyone is no fortunate enough to meet their other half in college or graduate school. It’s hard out here to find a mate period. That is doubled over for cultured educated black women.

  • http://martin-jackson.blogspot.com Martin

    To answer your question are Smart Black women (and if I may also throw in Smart Black men) needed in urban areas and I would have to say the answer is yes, we are. At least to show people yes we can be smart people.

    Of course that doesn’t mean we all have to stay because there are people in the burbs and aboard that also need to learn that.

    And I’m not sure what the guy taking your friend out to the Original House of Pancakes fits in with it being hard for Black woman to date. It was an odd time to go out on a date, true. An odd place for a first date…short of but it’s also a relax place and maybe the guy just really like pancakes.

  • vy

    Any black woman who believes that intelligent, thoughtful, successful and decent black men are nonexistent is certain not to find one.

  • Kevin

    Stay committed to your values. Be a lady at all times. Continue to grow intellectually, spiritually and physically. Progressive men love ladies who are self assured and willing to be adventurist.

  • Mademoiselle

    @Ask_Me I’ve been to several buppy parties where none of the black men were anything like you describe. If none of the black men spoke to any of the women there, how can you be sure they were “disturbed by the audacity” of your white friends? Also, why is it your white friends get all this praise at the expense of the black men when NEITHER the men NOR the women at said party seemed to be doing anything to make it fun? I’ve never been to a buppy party full of black professionals where men and women weren’t actively networking. Usually the complaint I hear most is that buppy parties are full of women vying for the attention of the “nouveau affluent” men there to the exclusion of any and all networking with other women, so your experience is a bit surprising.

  • http://twitter.com/probert06 Pascal Robert (@probert06)

    The author’s dating problems are a product of her tone, temperament, mentally, and sense of privilege. Not “intelligence.” There are tones of intelligent successful men who wouldn’t give her the time of day simple because of the personality this piece indicates.

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Thank you!

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Thank you!

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Thank you!

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    I totally agree! Thank you!

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Thank you!

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Thank you!

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Thank you!

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Thank you!

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Hello. Thank you so much to everyone who has commented thusfar and will in the future! I did not think this many people would be interested! I truly appreciate your thoughts and ideas! Intelligent dialogue is so important. Multifaceted thoughts, the written word and heartfelt expression are critical. I am so happy so many were ignited my words and expressions to the world in this writing.

    Be blessed, Kalisha Buckhanon

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Hello! I tried to reply before to all and I hope it goes through this time! Thank you so much for all of the thoughtful responses and comments. Be blessed and well, Kalisha

  • http://gravatar.com/packlightly Ve

    I noticed that discrepancy too.
    Original House of Pancakes has food that is delicious, a good quality, and on the pricey side for a breakfast place. IHOP, well…

    Knowing which restaurant she actually went to makes a difference.

  • http://gravatar.com/packlightly Ve

    While I identify with this woman to an extent, she talks about her education/intelligence in an arrogant manner, at least in this article. Many men are indeed intimidated (their words, not mine) when a woman is obviously smart, and honestly it does seem like very educated women tend to marry equally or more educated men (less so in the African-American community, from what I’ve seen)

    That being said, there is definitely a way to showcase your intelligence without 1) coming off as if your degree alone should earn you some respect, especially from a prestigious university, 2) making it appear that you have what you have because of money or opportunity. Traveling is no big deal, nor is speaking one foreign language, much of the world has done this. Why are you intelligent apart from the opportunities you’ve had/have been given?

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    well played, sir

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “I don’t know how to put this but I’m kind of a big deal. People know me. I’m very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.”

  • useless middle class

    @Pascal Robert

    Ah!

    This is the one I’ve been waiting for. There is intelligent life on this site. Called it correctly without committing the same pseudo intellectual pratfall as the half wit who wrote this gibberish

    They all got it wrong, they all come off as full of it as sista girl.

    Thanks for showing em the correct way to put a village idiot in her place.

  • ASK_ME

    “If none of the black men spoke to any of the women there, how can you be sure they were “disturbed by the audacity” of your white friends?”

    My husband was friends with one of the black guys at the party. When he went over to say hi he was swiftly greeted with a “Man, why the phuck did you bring them here?” Believe me the tension could be felt. Those two white guys walked in the door and had their pick. It was interesting to watch.

    Buppy parties are interesting to say the least. I’ve been to quite a few and the scene is almost identical to one I described.

  • tish

    i found that it’s less about “what you know” than “who you are.”

    i’ve had SEVERAL lovers who were intelligent, powerful men (wall street broker, surgeon, cardiothoracic anesthesiologist, senior partner of a primary care practice, criminal defense attorney, author (who actually published shit people want to read), and even an elected official in the northeastern ohio area.,

    ALL OF WHOM ARE BLACK.

    now were each of these guys, the ‘BOMB”????? sure, and i’m sure they’d have no time to deal with a lady like this author. as a matter of fact, my husband’s ex-gf had a similar pedigree, and for about 2 years after they started dating, she became the more obnoxious, irritating twit on the planet. to this day, she still contacts him crying “why not me? i knew you first, and you told me that i was smart and pretty….”

    pretty pathetic, heh?

    the point: when looking for a partner, present YOU and less your CV. work on your social skills, relationship skills, learn how to HAVE FUN, laugh, and not make every encounter a study group.

    concurrently, become attracted to the gentleman you wish to spend your time, and less his CV or how many stamps are on his passport, et al.

    don’t get me wrong–you should NEVER down-play your accomplishments. trust me, he’ll know how smart you are the moment you open your mouth. yet, realize that accomplishments are only PART of the package. the other, is you. and by extension, him.

    your “partner” should be more compatible than just his academic achievement and ability to recognize the third bar of “bitche’s brew.

    unless you’re going to roll-up his CV and use it for your self-pleasure, focus on “the man.” trust me, most men who are “high-powered professionals” equally appreciate a refined, educated lady…who isn’t looking for the quiz him on his knowledge of a bunch of esoteric shit.

    that’s the magic bullet.

    blessings!!!

  • http://clutchmagazine.com R. Clark

    I think this writer is very high on herself. I too am an educated black woman and yes all women may have some problem finding a mate — particular if the pool in which she swims is filled with smaller fish. You have the option of staying in said pool or looking for a pool with bigger fishes. Dear author, it’s not that big of a deal. So what you dated a loser. It reflects not so much on said man than it does on you. Why would you continue to spend so much time with a man that was so beneath you? Get a grip girlfriend. When you are really secure in who you are, what you have and truly love yourself, you will find the right person. And if he does not hold a ivy league degree, a good man with a high school diploma will cheer for his woman that can answer a question or two on jeopardy, not silence her. I am so tired to these stories about black women who cannot find mates. I think some of my dear sisters need to find some self-respect before they go searching for any man. Just saying.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “Those two white guys walked in the door and had their pick.”

    I haven’t even been to a party where a black guy would have his pick. Was it because they were white, or was this group of women just open to anyone that would talk to them?

  • ASK_ME

    @Ravi

    It was because the women were open to them.

    The two white guys in question were also open to black women, which is why my husband invited them in the first place. One man is divorced from a black woman while the other recently broke up with his black girlfriend.

    Women, black women included, just want love and happiness. For some of us race just doesn’t matter.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I’m asking did the reason that every black woman in this party was open to these white guys have to do with the fact that they were white. Would they have ALL been so open to the black guys that were being passive had they chosen to be more aggressive?

    I know some white guys that are very successful getting black women, but it’s usually a specific type of black woman that is more receptive to white men than other types.

    I have a couple friends with a particular weakness for short Jewish guys. Wondering if this party was full of such women.

  • ASK_ME

    @Ravi

    “Would they have ALL been so open to the black guys that were being passive had they chosen to be more aggressive?”

    Truthfully I don’t know. I got the feeling that the women were waiting on the black guys to approach. The whole thing reminded me of a middle school dance…girls on one side and boys on the other.

    The white guys were cracking jokes and laughing with the women, who formed a circle around them. Even if there were some women that might not have been interested in dating the two white guys (and I don’t know how many were interested or not) they were ALL definitely interested in conversing with them.

  • me

    Aren’t you the author? Kalisha?

  • LN

    I don’t know what alternative universe I must be living in, but almost ALL my black girlfriends (who are educated, most with advanced degrees) are married. And we’re all under 30. We didn’t struggle for it, it isn’t a *miracle* to us. Most of us met our husbands in college.

    Let me break it down:

    First black girlfriend, has an MD, is married to a Chinese-American web designer
    Second black girlfriend, also has an MD, married to a White adjunct philosophy professor
    Third black girlfriend, has a BA, married to a black youth pastor
    Fourth black girlfriend, has a BA, married to a Brazilian-American web designer
    Fifth black girlfriend, has an MA, married to a white (European, he’s from England) guy — he’s currently looking for work
    Sixth black girlfriend, has a BA, married to a bi-racial (black/white) guy who’s a social worker (has a MA in social work from University of Chicago)
    Seventh black girlfriend, has a MA in education, married to an Indian-American high school football coach
    And me — I have a BA, and I’m married to a black guy who graduated from an Ivy League and works in finance.

    And I have one single black girlfriend who’s currently getting her MA in Theology.

    When we were all single, none of us really cared the ethnicity of the guys who were interested in us. And, as mentioned, most of us met our husbands in college, right out of college or (in some cases) high school.

    To be honest, I really don’t think my group of friends is all that rare. I meet roving groups of black women ALL THE TIME who are under 30, married (either intra or interracially) and have moved on with their lives and away from this tired discussion of whether or not black women are marriageable.

  • me

    Nurses don’t wear scrubs all the time. Her statement still smacks of a sense of elitism to certain professions.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    I got you now. When you first said they could have their pick, it seemed like you were saying that the white guys could easily date any of the women there.

    I’ve occasionally been to functions where all the girls were socializing together and all the guys did the same. Not so much with black professional circles, but I have seen it there too.

  • Old TImer

    Are men supposed to be impressed by this kind of woman? You come off as very “look what I got.” You are pretty much the female equivalent the guy with a nice car and perfect teeth. The most basic, run of the mill, middle class white guy has done all of the things you mentioned, how does that make you special or more attractive? You remind me of the folks who. with great pride, say “I have a job!” “I gots my degree!” I take care of my kids!” When a specific group of people set the bar SO LOW for themselves, a mediocre person is absolutely exceptional! This article was shameless self promotion disguised as typical “where are all the good men at” hit piece. Why do you think successful men marry all fluff and no substance types of women? Men couldn’t care less what you have or have done. This notion is widely accepted amongst women but for men to echo this is to be labeled “basic,” “uncultured,” and clear signs of an individual whom only desires his woman to be barefoot and pregnant. I prefer successful women, but 90% of the stuff you mentioned are things to be expected not bragged about. This kind of thinking is, in my opinion, an offshoot of the “angry black woman” stereotype, I.e. I have this, this and this therefore I should be entitled to this kind of man otherwise I will lash out at any man that doesn’t appreciate my “this,” “this” and “this.” Degrees don’t attract men, but maybe your intellectual ability to get said degree may, i.e. realizing the difference between being smart and intelligent. By today’s standards a degree is nothing more than memorization of some useless information for the sake of testing how well you can memorize said information. If you have that skill to begin with then a degree is nothing more than a piece of paper to throw in someones faces. *See college grads burning their degrees in protest.* You’ve reached some arbitrary goals in life, great good for you, but can you engage me in a conversation NOT about yourself? Can you throw a Frisbee? Do you like dogs? Do you go on long drives through the country? Are you this snarky in person? Can you roast a chicken for goodness sake!? Until women actually LISTEN to men as opposed to listening to women tell them about men, they will continue to be completely lost with all of their travel photos, money in the bank, and fluency in 52 languages. Bonne chance avec cette.

  • LN

    Am I living in an alternative universe? Because most of my black girlfriends. We’re under 30 and a lot of us have advanced degrees. Let me break down my black girlfriends:

    1. Has an MD, is married to an Asian-American web designer
    2. Has an MD, is married to a White adjunct philosophy professor
    3. Has an MA in Education, is married to an Indian-American high school coach
    4. Has a BA, is married to a black pastor with an MA in theology
    5. Has a BA, is married to a Brazilian-American web designer
    6. Has a BA, is married to a bi-racial (black/white) social worker (has an MA in social work from University of Chicago)
    7. Has an MA in education, is married to a black web designer.
    8. Then there’s me. I have a BA and am married to a black financial analyst who has a BA from an Ivy League

    I do have one black single girlfriend who is currently pursuing her MA in theology.

    All of us met our husbands in college, high school, or right out of college. And none of us cared the ethnicity of the men who were interested in us. All of us dated interracially before landing our respective husbands.

    And I really don’t consider us rare. I meet a lot of black women around my age (27) who are married or dating seriously.

    I mean, maybe the fact that we were willing to date and marry nerds is why we found love fairly easily? None of our husbands are particularly smooth, cool or has crazy “swag”. But they’re good guys who love us and we’re happy.

    Maybe it’s because marriage is normative to us. I don’t know.

    I just feel like, sometimes, we make things harder and more complicated than they actually are.

    Oh, and by the way, none of us are, like super crazy attractive. We’re not all light skinned either. I mean we’re all cute. But it’s not like we’re Halle Berry.

  • WB2

    Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! You’re a nut! loves it! lololol.

  • tish

    i’m going to take a stab at your post.

    since it was mostly unmodified pronouns, i assume that you referred to those who (including myself) posted credentials as a primer, while subsequently critiquing the OP’s diary.

    my thoughts:

    1- obviously strategy and tactics are not your strong point. this is not a diss, yet an observation.

    when one is attempting to challenge an opposing viewpoint one must first defuse the original evidence, this is what people have done.

    her original premise was that “there are no brothas capable of meeting the lofty credentials of a ‘smart sista’ like her; hence ALL sistas with any inking of culture/intellect are simply SOL.”

    what myself and others attempted to do was demonstrate that there are indeed other sistas on the planet who are 1- educated, 2- cultured, and 3- in long-term relationships with men who are our intellectual/culture/iHOP-loving/pate eating equals.

    by presenting evidence to the contrary, completely discredits her argument… this is debate club, 101.”

    2- “high[falutin] credentials?” wow, that’s a bit dated.

    3- to assume that a direct approach vs a “kill em with kindness” approach is somehow the antithesis of “smart” likewise indicates that it is YOU who are likewise condescending and attempting to silence folk.

    while i have the ability to tactfully approach a contentious situation, i can also come direct; and that neither denotes my presence nor absence of “intellect.”

    4- please refrain from being the “debate police.” the risk of posting a controversial post is the possibility of rebuttal and critique. and from what i’ve read, not too much written was over the top rude–direct and critical, yes but not over the top rude.

    be easy…

  • Rob

    You met the wrong man who saw your outward beauty and did not appreciate your inward beauty. There are many men that appreciate both like I do.

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Zan, Thank you so much!

    Keep being yourself. You have the right to be skeptical, too. Your wish for balance is right-minded and kind-hearted. Balance is the key ingredient in any successful relationship, be that work, family, friends or romance. There has to be give and take.

    However, the danger for Black women in the balance equation is that we are already the most self-sacrificing group on the globe. Our cultures, here and abroad, put a strong hold on us as women and train us to put everyone before ourselves. I have many Caribbean friends whom I share this in common with from my background here in America. When that expectation of us is applied to dating and romance, we risk closing off the deeper aspects of who we are and what truly turns us on. Whole parts of our characters can remain undignified and unspoken to.

    What I learned from this experience, to pass off my learnings to my newly-single friend (who had the correct skepticism that she was leaving her desk to be romanced over pancakes she could have made at home), is that the longsuffering Negress within us has to be left at the door when it comes to dating. Balance can not be a consideration–at first. Down the road, yes. But during your own “interview” process, flaunt Zan. Flaunt it. Do not hold back. Do not be reserved. Do not self-edit. Flaunt absolutely everything about yourself that places you in a special league or a league of your own. Let the balance be their concern.

    Thank you so much for reading!

    Peace and Blessings,
    Kalisha

  • http://kalishab.wordpress.com Kalisha

    Eboni, Thank you so much! I absolutely love Kerry Washington too. I thought about talking about her in this but I was unsure where to do so. Thank heaven for her. I am so happy that she has stayed around and we are seeing her come into her fuller light now. She really does Black women proud on-camera and off. Thanks for reading the article! Peace and Blessings, Kalisha

  • http://kalishabuckhanon.wordpress.com/ Kalisha

    Hi Terri! Oh my Goodness it is so good to see your face (I snuck into your blog!) So glad you saw this article!!!!! I so remember when we talked about that class and tried to do it! Maybe we still can….somebody should. Much love and congratulations to you. I am going to be digging into your work now today. Love, Kalisha

  • http://gravatar.com/rockthecatbox rockthecatbox

    I wanted to thumbs this up but your comment broke it. LMAO, Why was his chasing her down for love the best thing about that movie, other than the slave master asskickings he doled out?!! the feminist in me cringes at some more contrived representations of the damsel trope in film, but the sentimental black woman & action buff sides of me love to see a black man fighting for love, and kicking ass/risking death and life to do it. Loved that movie. Carry on!

  • NotmyHeroine

    Only an “educated” black woman could find the “downsides” of being well educated and having a lil money in your pocket.

    I thought education was supposed to open doors to all kinds of possibilities, not be a cause of self pity.

    But then none of these people treat education as a way to make themselves better equipped to explore the world in all its variety and complexity or maybe apply their education to solving a problem or two – just a way to distance themselves from the black experience.

    Education for these losers only means ‘I’m too big for black people”.

    Too big for black people indeed. Yet way too small to break into the exclusive white circles, which for them, represent the whole world.

    What a let down it must be to “have” all that education (and student loan debt) and still be so close, geographically socially and financially, to the most difficult aspects of the black experience that you “end up” with a struggling musician.

    Mind you that doesn’t sound so bad to me. White people would romanticize that plot and turn it into a love story. A young couple just starting out, looking to make their mark. The girl – just outta college, the boy – a young musician tryna make it big . . . . (corny but you get the drift)

    But our budding story teller here takes it off into the predictable woe is me sob story, direction. Another tedious tale of a black woman dun wrong by a no good dog.

    And then they’re surprised and hurt that no one makes them the object of their desire in their songs, videos, films, books or poems.

    I think women who can’t find anyone good enough to date should spare ALL men their perpetual dissatisfaction and simply date each other.

    Problem solved.

  • tish

    ps…sorry about the typos on the previous post… didn’t proof it as i had to pound it out and split! (i’m sure i’ll get bithch-slapped for not proofing my work….) hehehe:-)

  • http://gravatar.com/karenmm2 karenmm2

    Those of us who have invested heavily in developing our intellectual lives sometimes don’t realize when we’re being a bit condescending. I’m not sure that cultural sophistication (or pretension) should be conflated with intelligence. The IHOP/Pancake House story doesn’t speak to the man’s intellectual development, but cultural milieu…but maybe the two are linked in ways that are unpopular to talk about. I think the author makes a lot of valid points that make us extremely uncomfortable. In our communities we are often quick to defend men and even quicker to castigate women, particularly if women are speaking of things that may make us not feel so good about ourselves. No one really wants to hear black women tell the truth that due to the culture we are left without suitable mates…it’s easier to tell women it’s their fault even though there are tangible and documented reasons such as the devastation crack wrought on our communities in the 90′s and the subsequent rise of prison industrial complex which has led to many of the social issues we are experiencing and none of really want to examine any of this too closely…I’m not going too far down that road, but no matter how much adjusting, understanding, accepting, changing, or “thinking like a man, but acting like a lady” we do there are things that are larger, structural issues that we may want to address instead of cannibalizing one another in mean-spirited arguments. I think it may be time for thinkers such as the author of this piece maybe work with the friends she referenced to see how she may use gains the education and subsequent intellectual development she’s invested in, in some small measure to make sure the future looks a little brighter for the young women that came after her. Raising the issue could and maybe should lead to a bit of agency and ACTION that could benefit us all.

  • Stanley

    @NotMyHeroine
    “White people would romanticize that plot and turn it into a love story. A young couple just starting out, looking to make their mark. The girl – just outta college, the boy – a young musician tryna make it big . . . . (corny but you get the drift)”

    That’s kind of what I thought.

  • http://gravatar.com/lesurea Nicole

    So many of the comments, here, simply want to particularize the author’s claims. Apparently, Ms. Buckhanon is just a bitter woman who had one bad experience and is ranting like a raving lunatic because of it. Of course, she couldn’t offer up insightful generalizations that might help us understand how racism and patriarchy (to name a few) collide to make the most intimate spheres of life for a smart black woman particularly troubling, particularly frustrating, and particularly isolating. I want to draw your attention to what I take to be the thesis of this post: “For Black women, another dimension to this fact of life usually contributes to our unique tales: we are stricken with the heavy task of overturning stereotypes that demean the experiences we ought to have in this world.”
    We have heard similar tales from black men about how racism, the stereotypes it weaves with which it burdens the black body, has demeaned the experiences they have had in this world. To name a few, Frantz Fanon in Black Skin White Masks (he goes off no how the mulattos treat black men in chapter two – and there have been learned and fair responses to his treatment of black women that still acknowledge the genius of what Fanon was up to in this book) and Ralph Ellison in Invisble Man. But you get a (smart) black woman make an eloquent point about the plight of (smart) black women in there efforts to find intimacy that is worthy of the place that they occupy in life and she only receives response about how she is clearly defunct and lacking as an individual and no engagement with her point, her argument! You can certainly disagree, but can you at least speak to what this woman has argued? What she has eloquently illustrated through her prose? The answer seems to be, “Of course not”. Which to me further illustrates Ms. Buckhanon’s point and further illustrates what (smart) black women are up against!

  • ChocoLush

    but time is running out I am a lawyer my best friend is a lawyer….we have five other friends a RN…a College Professor…A musician…A network manager and…A speech therapist…we are all 40..and NO MAN in sight..I am glad she spoke on this….I don’t want to date European……

  • ChocoLush

    where?

  • ChocoLush

    are you married? just askin

  • ChocoLush

    …..mmmm the stats would say you are not telling the truth…..but i might believe you since you said UNDER 30..but the CDC stats say you are not being honest#sorry

  • Me

    She is NOT just out of college. Homegirl is pushing 40..

  • Me

    @Chocolush

    If you want to live your life thinking about the statistics go ahead. Statistics don’t claim all black women under 30 are single and the 70% stat that you are probably referring to (I assuming, forgive me if I’m wrong) only looked at women in the narrow range of 25-29. Statistics are easy to manipulate and sometimes you need to take a look at what you are putting out there and not everyone else receiving it. This goes for people of all races and all genders. Questioning what the media puts out there or ignoring it does wonders for self-esteem.

  • Zan

    Thanks Kalisha!

    But during your own “interview” process, flaunt Zan. Flaunt it. Do not hold back. Do not be reserved. Do not self-edit. Flaunt absolutely everything about yourself that places you in a special league or a league of your own. Let the balance be their concern.

    This made my morning.

  • MMHMM

    What? Highly educated and nurse aren’t things people typically say in the same sentence. Maybe a doctor but not a nurse. While I know MANY highly educated nurses (as my mother is one), they also don’t always wear scrubs because they aren’t all on the floor. So your stereotype and mindset of nurses is very FLAWED.

  • Mademoiselle

    @Nicole I think what you’re calling the thesis was more of the author’s secondary thought (“‘another’ dimension to this fact of life …”)

    Her thesis is presented in the last paragraph of her article: “To some extent, the heart of this matter is that my girlfriends and I have crossed paths with close-minded individuals. But at this stage of our lives, what filtration process must occur before we can guard our steps against even tip-toeing near such paths?”
    – She spends much of the article painting a picture that her and her girlfriends’ credentials should afford her the liberty of not wasting time with men who don’t meet their qualifications.

    Her thesis is also supported by the sentence before the one you called out: “But for other women, the “bad dates” occur at sophisticated venues where the grievances hover more in the realms of personality incompatibility, or crudeness on the part of the male, or the poor guy’s awful choice of tie.”
    – She bases her sense of entitlement on the assumption that high caliber men of other cultures stereotypically always take their first dates to fancy restaurants, and that women of other cultures with similar credentials stereotypically never have to brave a shabby restaurant on a first date because all the men of their culture know better.

    The commenters have in fact already spoken to her argument. Many of the comments echo the sentiment that the issue she and her girlfriends face is one of incompatibility, and has nothing to do with their education or where a date takes place. It’s just as possible to find out you have nothing in common with someone at an OHOP as it is anywhere else. Being taken to a “sophisticated” location as a first date wouldn’t have prevented this man from marking his territory in her prized, book-lined shower, and it doesn’t take her level of education to be able to identify early on that things won’t work out between 2 people.

    In addition to taking issue with the author’s sense of entitlement, commenters also took issue with the author’s presentation style. She made it a point at every turn of her article to flex her personal achievements as a means of placing undue blame on men — who are just being themselves — for not lauding and submerging themselves in her just being herself. It’s a kind of hypocritical, condescending, elitist, and whiny way of saying she and her girls are having a hard time meeting like-minded men — something that people of all education levels, socioeconomic status, race, and interests go through.

  • NotmyHeroine

    We’re not writing a biography woman, creative licence in story telling allows us to take a few liberties with the facts.

    Sheesh!

    What a fine example of educated black woman’s ability to think outside the literal box you are. (sarcasm off)

    Can’t even make a decent job of deliberately missing the point.

  • Mademoiselle

    @MMHMM I wasn’t stereotyping nurses (who, if you’re asking, I do believe are smart based on the experiences I’ve had with the ones I know personally — but I welcome anyone to prove me wrong). I was explaining the author’s use of the nurse bit, which she was using to say that if she were a nurse, men would automatically assume her level of intelligence and only approach her if they exceeded her expectations. I could go so far as to say people don’t normally conflate intelligence with being an author, either, but the author’s the one depicting how she’s too smart to deal with commoners, not me. And the nurse example was hers, not mine. Note that I also stated that I believe the author’s premise is stupid, mainly because it’s just as possible to skate through your nursing program as it is to skate through a master’s (which absolutely happens sometimes), but the author still wasn’t throwing nurses under the bus with that line. “It made me wish I was a nurse. Then, he would have known better to have thought we might be a match.” <<her words

  • tish

    for clarity–my post was directed at the OP of the diary, not the author of this thread. if misinterpreted, mea culpa…

  • useless middle class

    Hey! I like you, you’ve got a lil wit trying to break through all that high falutin-ness.

    LOL!

    See, a black woman can have sense of humour – that’s pretty. :-)

    No need to go all English major on it, we’re only in the comments section of an internet discussion board where the rules of language and dialogue are a lil bit more relaxed.

    Which is kinda what I was trying to get at in my comment above. LOL!

    That I articulated my thoughts well enough that you “got me” and were also moved to lower yourself to cross swords against a lowly uneducated black man like me, made it all worthwhile.

    We were level for a while.

    LMAO!

  • NotmyHeroine

    @Stanley

    Guess you’ve never read or seen Love Story. Pretty Woman, A Star is Born, Dirty Dancing Pygmalion, all rags to riches themed love stories.

    Anyway you must be “da good black man” reporting in for hater duty. A struggling musician is the kinda guy the girls pick before you – right?

    Even “bougie sista” types like this one. :-)

    dumb black americans, all tryna walk taller by puling the other guy down. Makes all of yoos look small. .

    Sigh

  • useless middle class

    Hey they edited out the killer bit of my reply to miss english major. LMAO! That’s so bad.

  • RV

    The author needs a clone more than a man—need used loosely–..perhaps then she can date herself, read to herself, go to breakfasts, brunches, lunches with herself..nuff said.. I think everyone gets the drift.

    This is from a successful/educated/far from broke senior black woman who finds the writer still very young in mind… shallow–on a high horse– and she will change her perspective a little later in life maybe;..at least i hope so..College degrees, speaking several languages, standing in judgement do not a mature grown woman make—a little more time in the oven and much more life experience will give her some resolve–.I have . grand children in their thirties who know better than to put something like this’ out there’..but of course..there’s that freedom of speech thing we so honour. Smiles

  • http://Clutch SL

    @ Old Timer – great post.

  • southernDarling

    The author should re-read this article from an outside perspective and she would then realize why she is still single.

    We (educated women, black women, women in general) have got to do better.

  • EntertainMeh

    Your sarcasm and condescending tone does make you come across as passive- aggressive and just a plain ol’ asshole. It’s ugly.

  • TSWL

    I am reminded of Poitier’s Thackeray in “To Sir, With Love” (1967): “…the competition for men on the outside is rough.” The author should know that her breeding and education, her world travels, her books, and French tongue entitle her to – nothing – absolutely nothing. The author believes she is entitled to the best men on the planet. However as Thackeray reminds us, there is no lack of women for a good-looking, educated, employed, cosmopolitan man. For all your breeding, there are a hundred other women who are even more educated and cosmopolitan — and oh, some of them come from wealthy backgrounds, too and they’ll be there to remind you just how much pedigree still counts in the twenty-first century. I don’t need to go into race, sexual stereotypes that you will need to overcome, and beauty standards that place “whiteness” as the desired trait in both the West and the non-West…

    I thought we were over the myth of traveling to Europe to find some cosmopolitan escape fantasy…You will be ignored and treated poorly in Europe as well…The author needs a reality check…become grounded and critically conscious of your place in Western societies as an educated black woman. Don’t place your worth in your university degree, your books, your French, or your ability to afford a plane ticket to travel to Europe…Learn who you are and what you really want outside of those things…

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    Seeing how you are such a charming lady we know you have no problem finding a man……

  • http://gravatar.com/bglh LN

    This is a duplicate comment. Can it be removed?

  • http://gravatar.com/bglh LN

    @ChocoLush… Your response is, in a nutshell, the problem with a lot of black women. We would rather believe/be overly concerned and obsessed with how the media portrays us than with the reality of our lives.

    To shed some light: I grew up in a conservative evangelical culture, and attended a majority white conservative evangelical college. That’s part of the reason so many of my friends are married interracially — because black men were outnumbered. Plus, in evangelical culture marriage is expected/anticipated. Check the stats of any evangelical school (Wheaton, Trinity, Judson, North Park, etc) and you will see that rate of marriage among junior/senior/recently graduated students is very, very high. I got married at age 25 and that was considered “late” by my evangelical friends — many of whom were already married.

    Also, I work in a very progressive sector. The women and men of color that I come across in the tech industry are maybe more likely than most to marry interracially.

    So, perhaps my unique mix of subcultures — evangelical and tech — expose me to black women who are by and large married — many interracially.

    This is why the article above surprises and shocks me. If this woman is as highly educated as she espouses, she should be exposed to progressive communities were black women are just as marriageable as anybody else.

  • Furious styles

    Hey bsbfrankaren,
    “I have to disagree with you. Women have to have standards just as men do, yet only women get a hard time for it. The guy she was dating was only interested in the physical her and made that obvious when he showed absolutely no interest in what she did for a living.”

    I don’t mind you disagreeing. But the thing is, we don’t really disagree on that point you put forth, which is not what I am arguing. If we change the gender of the writer, would there be a disproportionate amount of negative responses to the “female” author vs a male with the same laundry list of complaints? I think so. But I’m sure the same theme would be there. We would wonder why this person is so full of himself. We would wonder why “his” criteria are based on obscure superficial garbage. We would wonder why “he” let this person stay over if they don’t have the same physical desire, let alone compatibility. We would still wonder why the editor didn’t say “you know, this piece detailing how awesome you are and why your past dating choices suck should remain just an entry in your journal”.
    I’m not out to “give women a hard time”. I am sharing my reaction and asking the hard questions that others (men AND women here) are asking.

  • Furious styles

    +1. Smart, accomplished people who can get what they want in the dating sphere don’t have time to do these pieces.

  • Furious styles

    +1.
    “unless you’re going to roll-up his CV and use it for your self-pleasure, focus on “the man.” trust me, most men who are “high-powered professionals” equally appreciate a refined, educated lady…who isn’t looking for the quiz him on his knowledge of a bunch of esoteric shit.”

    Did you just say what I said, only smarter?!?!?!

  • ms_micia

    Excellent article. I, myself, as a part of the black girl nerd alliance, can relate. Being “that” girl was never fun. The one who had to dumb herself down on dates as not to seem intimidating, the one who had to pretend that I wasn’t interested in seeing the Dali exibit when really I did. The fact that I KNEW who Dali was in the first place!!! It’s frustrating. There are times when someone you consider worldly and knowledged simply turns up a nose at you for simply being more so. I enjoy engaging conversation. Shoot me! Being in my twenties doesn’t automatically put me in the MTV watching, drink throwing, booty popping category. To date a man my age would be difficult. To date a black man at any age would be difficult. There are places where being intellegent and learned are appreciated, embraced and not seen as a threat to someone else’s intellegence or manhood. But those places are few and far. As long as we live here in American culture the concesus would be to be quiet, or not laugh at a joke noone else gets or not admit that you speak three languages or been to Africa and Japan and ect. The intimidation factor is much more of an issue than anything else. But I urge women not to settle. There are men who appreciate your culture, beauty, class, intellegence along with the fact that you know all the world to Hail Mary. It’s about knowing your standards and not settling. And in the meantime, kudos for being awesome, smart black girl!

  • http://Clutch SL

    There is a big difference between being book smart and having emotional intelligence – some people are not formerly educated, but can read situations and people far better than some people who have spent years obtaining degrees.

  • http://gravatar.com/ravsmith78 Ravi

    “To date a black man at any age would be difficult.”

    Statements like that reveal that you might be severely overestimating your own intelligence. Enjoying the work of Salvador Dali doesn’t indicate intelligence. Judging people based on their knowledge of artists may indicate a lack thereof.

  • Job

    You’re not the only one who knows who Salvador Dali is. Plenty of people studied Spanish in school. How does knowing that and 3 languages make you fun to be around? I know a lot about building bridges, dams, economics, biology and nuclear reactors. Do you think any woman cares to hear me talk about that on a date? Of course not. There are plenty of educated people. Stop acting like you’re rare and so much smarter than other black people. Just be yourself, no need to “dumb yourself down.” But there’s no need to show off either because ultimately how smart you are is not what people will remember you for. Trust me intelligence is not a threat to anyone’s manhood. But people will appreciate you more for being a nice, caring person who is enjoyable to be around than they will for how much you know. Your tone sounds very condescending when you assume you cannot relate to anyone your age or race. It will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nobody likes an elitist!

  • kc

    LOL no.

  • http://twitter.com/AlyciadotJ Alycia (@AlyciadotJ)

    Yes, yes and one more yes to that!

  • http://gravatar.com/heavenleiblu AB

    Ok, now i’m beginning to feel like this was an experiment to see just how long we’d continue to dogpile this woman. :-/

  • PineApple

    There are ugly, extremely smart people. I’m JUST saying..

  • http://gravatar.com/jswindell jswindell

    Thing is I thought the girl in the inset photo was the author but when I saw the author….hmm…I won’t say unattractive but she may want to re-evaluate her priorities.

  • bradford32

    Is this really a racial issue in black men being deficient. Or is this an issue with a lot of black women failing to realize there own place as females in a heterosexual relationship and accepting what that truly consist of. That goes for women in general, but black women seem to gripe about this the most.

    The fact is men of all races who finally do settle down. Do so for entirely different reasons then women. It usually centers around the urge of finally wanting children of there own and wanting to be there to raise them. Not wanting to settle for the child support paying, weekend visiting dad arrangement that we in the black community have become so accustomed to.

    As far as whether or not the woman earns her own dollars, is college educated, likes to read books, plays a musical instrument and all of that. Comes a distant third to a woman being of healthy child bearing age and being atleast somewhat physically attractive. What most single 30 something and 40+ year old black women fail to realize. Is that serious minded black men in there 30′s and early 40′s who have waited to maturity to have children of there own and are now ready to settle down. Are more interested in is attractive women who are still in there healthy child bearing 20′s or early 30′s at the latest.

    My point is this discussion of finding a good black man who is compatible needs to be geared towards younger black women who still have a chance of being someones wife. For those black women who have decided to sacrifice all of there youth obtaining there education and ambitious goals. Congratulations. But that doesn’t change the fact that by natural design a woman’s desirability does diminish greatly after a certain age. In terms of finding a mate who has certain desirable qualities. Such as a man who is able to support a family and actually wants to settle down. Those men become even more desirable once the reach 30 because women do care more about what a man has and if he is able to support a family,

  • :-)

    That’s kinda mean…(though I do think she could prob take a break writing and hit the gym with some of her vacation money)

  • http://Clutch SL

    @bradford32 –

    It’s true – alot of the comments from women – the first mistake they make is trying to be the “same” as a man, but it doesn’t work that way and it was never suppose to work that way. We are suppose to complement each other, but a lot of what I hear is women who don’t seem to understand – there are roles in a marriage. The most important things are to give him plenty of good sex, cook him great meals, keep a clean house, take care of the kid(s), keep up your looks and for the love of God don’t nag and bitch at him! LOL sounds outdated right, but honestly as progressive as we seem to be some things have not changed! I’ve been married for 15yrs now, am an educated professional who more than complements his salary – but at the end of the day my husband does not care about my degree (he thinks it’s great I have one, but wasn’t high on his list), or my travels or any of my trophy accomplishments. When I asked him why he married me he says because I liked how you look and you had the qualities I was looking for in a wife and the mother of my kids. Done deal. Keep it simple. Men really aren’t that hard to please. My husband got just enough of my benefits but not everything while we were dating – some girls give it all away and the uterus too. Degrees don’t really mean anything in a relationship – it just shows your potential – other than that it’s nothing. Reading lots of books – its great you have something you love to do, but in the overall scheme of things it says nothing of your ability to relate to a man or anyone else for that matter.

  • me

    “The most important things are to give him plenty of good sex, cook him great meals, keep a clean house, take care of the kid(s), keep up your looks and for the love of God don’t nag and bitch at him!”

    I guess you guys’ underlying misogyny helped keep you together for so long.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @me – no its not misogny – he takes care of me and I don’t want for anything. He doesn’t abuse me or misuse me. He didn’t drop a baby and run off. He works hard – is home every night – is an amazing father and lover.

    That fact that you even went there first shows exactly why so many women are single and without a man.

    My mom was married to my dad for 35yrs. My grandmother to my grandfather for more than 60. I learned from the best and didn’t act like I knew it all like my counterparts do and still can’t even achieve what they want most. First, you got to know how to pick the right guy and if this article is any representation, most women don’t even know how to fish so they are literally starving and can’t figure it out.

  • Carolyn

    My English teacher in high school always told me never to say something in 100 words when it can be conveyed in 10. Essentially, I understand her, I really do. But at the same time I feel this is a long-winded commentary about how her intellectual prowess is superior to a counterpart to whom she had nothing in common. Simple as that. Date someone who knows who Joan Didion is and keep it moving.

  • me

    LOL. Not abusing and misusing you seems like a pretty low standard for what constitutes a good partner. All women are not looking for man right now. Maybe I mistook the tone of your comment but it seems like you are taking a backseat to your husband because “that’s what a good wife does.” I’m not trying to start some petty argument and while I think the writer of this piece has some introspection to do to evaluate what she values, your comment seemed to go in the opposite direction. Some people value their SO’s accomplishments as it relates to them as a person and some people don’t think it’s as important. Whatever floats your boat. Just like some people follow archaic relationship traditions and some people don’t. Your list of “important” only works for you.

    My comment does not explain why so many women are single. It explains my opinion of what you wrote. Being a woman does not exempt you from being misogynist. Judging by the comments, most people here (myself included) don’t actually agree with the author but agree that she’s a bit too full or herself

  • Job

    @me

    It sounds from your tone that you seem to view marriage as some sort of competition. It’s a partnership. There is no “backseat.” I’m sure her husband is proud of her accomplishments. Does he need to give her a cookie or a badge? I’m a man. Most men I talk to value being respected and treated right above any secular accomplishments. Actually isn’t that whats really important to most people male or female?

  • me

    What i meant to say may be getting misconstrued (because I admit sometimes my comments can be snarky). I meant that some people value what their partner does or has accomplished more than others because it speaks about them as a person or there is just an extra means of a connection like an engineer who prefers to date another engineer over a fashion designer. The issue is not a black and white one.

    I view marriage the same way you do. As a partnership of equals. I have not been married because i am quite young for that, (in my opinion) but I just get annoyed at the ‘catering to my man’ type of statements vs. the way both are treated in the relationship. Everything just seems to be centered on pleasing the man instead of finding common ground for pleasing each other. I definitely don’t view it as a competition but even so people can still feel like they are taking a backseat. That’s probably not how SL feels at all, but it is possible to feel that way in any sort of relationship.

  • me

    But like I said before. Whatever floats your boat. Everything won’t work for everyone so you just do what works for you.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @me

    Misogynist – a person who hates, dislikes, mistrusts or mistreats women

    They fact that you used this word based on what I wrote is owing to your own feelings and insecurities because there is nothing in my posts that even suggests that I or my husband have feelings of hate towards any woman – so come at me again if you want to really discuss the points in my posts.
    My statement about abuse and misused was in light of your choice to use the word misogynist as a point of clarification not representative of the degree or quality of my relationship or my husband.

    As far as taking a backseat to my husband – the fact that you use that language is telling and troubling, because in fact you would need to know a lot more than what I posted to even begin to get a glimpse of what my relationship is with my husband. The fact that you would assume you do is beyond arrognant and suggests one of two things: you either have a highly over inflated sense of yourself or I struck a nerve. Maybe its both. Nothing in my posts said or indicated a “backseat” position – so you’ll need to explore why you had that kind of reaction to what I wrote.

    My so-called traditional archaic rules work for me – so far I’ve defied the odds and the woes of many single women. Let them figure out what will work for them, but so far with 72% of AA women single mothers – is it working? You can do whatever you want – the question is “how’s it working out for you?”.

    That might sting so let me say it differently.

    To get something you want sometimes you have to re-evaluate what you are doing. Doing the same thing – will only have the same results. And the way in which we think about things determines how we do things. Different thoughts – different outcome.

    And to those who are prefectly contented then kudos to you…my post wouldve been irrelevant to them and I’m sure they passed it up without so much as a second thought and wouldve had no desire to try and insult me with words like misogynist and backseat such as you did.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Job – thank you for having the maturity to know that marriage is about PARTNERSHIP – plain and simple.

    The “just do you” comment is so immature. People who say that don’t know what works for them – its so trite, overused and is nothing more than a smokescreen. It’s code for I can’t think beyond my narrow frame of reference – so I am shutting it down so I don’t have to deal with changing anything about how I think about myself or maybe face some hard truths about my beliefs.

    Just do you….

  • me

    I said “That’s probably NOT how SL feels at all, but it is possible to feel that way in any sort of relationship.” This means i didn’t try to say you were taking a backeseat. As anyone knows its pretty easy to muddle up the meaning of what someone says on the internet with audio/visual cues to fill in the blanks. That said, I was not trying to insult you in any way shape or form but you took it there. I can with this website sometimes.

    I have too much free time right now which is why I’m even still commenting here. i said do whatever works for you. Not sure where the problem is there. I know what works for me and you know what works for you so neither one of us can dictate what anyone else should do. I’m single but definitely not a single mother and based on your comment I’m probably 20ish years younger than you so i’m fine with my singleness as I finish up my undergraduate years.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @me

    I apologize – I got snarky back. I don’t cater to my man, but I make a point to be good to hom. Marriage is work. I am a professional in the office at home I’m his wife. Same person different roles. My mom said you catch more flies with honey. We are equals – he and I -but does that mean EVERYTHING is 50/50? No. I’ve found that I’m much happier when he’s happy and for darn sure he’s much happier when I’m happy. We try to meet each others needs. That has little to nothing to do with our educational pedigree or the fact that he is bilingual and I’m not – he’s traveled the world – I’d only been to the Bahamas before meeting him. Finding a suitable partner does not mean you need to be equal in every area. Be cool!

  • me

    I now realize this exercise is futile because you’ll just twist my words.

  • me

    Lawd, I’m sorry for saying SL took a backseat to her husband!!! But it looks like you have too much free time on your hands too.

  • Chelley5483

    @Cocochanel31,

    Get off the high horse is right..

    After reading this long @ss “resume” I came away with nothing. Nothing at all. Totally want my money back.

    I thought the dude was nice taking the pretentiousness out of dating by taking homegirl to old school IHOP. Whatever happened to, “It’s the thought that counts?” I think it’s charming and I know who Joan Didion is, can shout out a few answers on jeopardy, like Meryl and Nia and know what foie gras is.

    B!tch please. No, no, hell no, and we don’t care..

  • http://Clutch SL

    Oh Lawd – I’m at home sick @me. I do have a lot time!
    Take care and be good! Lol!!!

  • me
  • me

    I wasn’t trying to be mean and I hate comment arguments but I just had nothing better to do than clean my room. lol

  • http://Clutch SL

    @me

    Thank you for the link! What’s life without a little disagreement. Lol!
    Be good!

  • http://gravatar.com/jswindell jswindell

    Or realize she’s extra average.

  • Monica

    Totally agree with you. I checked the author’s website too and she is extra average.

  • tish

    :-)

    i think you have piqued my interest…lunch at IHOP?

    LOL….

    be well, my friend.

  • Stanley

    So, do you mean she’s not as fine as she’s shooting for?

  • Stanley

    I watched a video of her on YouTube. In my humble opinion, the highest I can rate her is a 4.
    Again in my sincere opinion, she should expect to get no less than what she’s offering in all areas including men’s favorite category: PHYSICAL BEAUTY

    (No offence. That’s just an opinion)

  • Winning Yve

    I will give the author props for sharing a personal story and personal issue in a public forum but I couldn’t even get through the article. It was so full of useless details added for the sole purpose of displaying how intelligent and interesting the author thinks she is. I got bored, started to skim, and fast forwarded to the comments section.

    The title alone is judgmental and presumptuous. “Dating while Smart.” With the implication being what, that stupid people have an easier time? Dating is difficult on any level and when we’re talking about black on black dating, the issue seems to be more of availability. The running theme throughout America is still a Europeanized ideal of beauty. In addition, if you’re looking for a sophisticated black man, you have to meet them in their neighborhood or at their Frat parties or other social mixers.

    The author clearly is not in the right environment based on how she described her date. The minute that man said “them hips” to me I would’ve known what the business was and moved on. If after date 1 I’m still suspicious about the basics like how old you are, then there’s a problem.

    A lot of the complaints sounded like 1991 issues. Yes, I have seen a black woman read and wear glasses on tv, I have seen a black man chase a black woman in a movie (Wright Way, Poetic Justice, The Best Man, The Wood, Django, and so on). Almost everything on the list I have seen. There a several leading female African American characters on tv and movies right now. It might be time to come to the realization that being intelligent and African American isn’t some especially unique quality. It’s actually quite common, so the competition for the author and those alike is thick. And it also includes competition from non African American women who are just as intelligent and beautiful…or not.

    Sounds like the author is setting up unreasonable standards for people who clearly don’t have any desire to meet them. The solution here would be to set yourself in a different environment and look for the real deal. Instead of dating someone you already looked down on and had suspicions about only to publicly scoff at them for not being good enough.

  • Winning Yve

    Agreed!!! It’s just that simple.

    Your English teacher was right :-)

  • nyet

    I find that many black women think they are Far more attractive than they actually are.

  • http://gravatar.com/templet00 tymetravelife

    Great article. I might not agree with everything you wrote, but I can def see your point.

    Judging from the comments, I would advise you & your friends to get the heck out of dodge. There’s nothing for you here unless you lower your standards–which is what the black group preach to black women constantly … “Girl, if you got a graduate degree, you need to marry you a garbage man; they make good money.” Never once considering that there’s a whole lot more to having a successful marriage than income.

  • http://gravatar.com/remy24g JRemy

    And that’s why your friend is SINGLE. See I have ran into women like this who criticize and critique where a first date or any date takes place, how about instead of critiquing the venue how about you enjoy this man’s company and learn some things about him and yourself in his presence. How about enjoying the space and time with this man no matter where you are, isn’t that what dating is suppose to be about???? But Lord forbid he brings her to IHOP on a first date (earth shatter thunder clap, neck roll “no he didn’t!!!!”), REALLY??? Maybe that was a test for your friend to see how she would respond so he could learn that she isn’t pretentious or petty enough to really determine a man’s worth by judging the venue he chooses to take her. Too black women worry about the wrong thing when dating black men in general and this is a prime example of it, he could be the man she needs but she and you are to caught up on going to “IHOP”. I personally would’ve chose a different place but that’s me, different strokes for different folks, maybe he really likes IHOP.I’m a black man who only dates black women btw. You and your friend sound dumb and smart at the same time by even making “he took me to IHOP” an issue. You so called smart women are hilarious to me your SO SMART but yet you SINGLE. I could poke so many holes in your story about dating the musician that would make u look dumb as rocks, but to each its own. Try not to sound so “I’m better than the this” when dating, it’s very unattractive.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @nyet – very interesting comment and also another sore point for black women.

    What is the standard for beauty for black women? What does that look like? In whites, it tends to be a certain look – blond, blue eyes, very thin, etc.

    This might be another article/discussion point entirely, but since several people have now commented on the author’s looks, I’m curious to know. What features, characteristics are considered beautiful /desireable in the AA community? Black women spend between 8-9 billion dollars annually and many spend hundreds of hours a yeat trying to achieve a look considered beautiful. There are very few Beyonces and Halle Berries – and many black women feel they are not considered beautiful. Just this week I’ve heard an amazing number of people say they think Michelle Obama is unattractive and some even said the same about Malia and Sasha.

    So I’m really curious, what kinda “look” is considered attractive?

    I know that the author has tuned into the comments for this article. I don’t know how she feels about many of the comments – I’m a little surprised that her looks (no matter what you think), would be highlighted.

    Part of me thinks it insensitive and inappropriate. Is everything fair game or have we gone on the attack? She posted some comments genuinely thanking people for reading her article and caring enough to comment.

    I know this all can be so impersonal, but we ought to remember there is a real person here with feelings.

  • http://gravatar.com/remy24g JRemy

    Preach, and they wonder why they are still single

  • http://gravatar.com/remy24g JRemy

    Thank you, please teach her bc she is missing the point of dating and can’t figure out why she is single.
    @ChocoLush i guarantee i can listen to each one of your and your friends stories and could tell each one of you where YOU went wrong in dating. At some point it’s YOU, not “there is NO MAN in sight”. And I am a black man.

  • http://gravatar.com/remy24g JRemy

    So smart but still dumb should be the title of this article. No one is knocking the issue we have in the black community regarding black males ascension in higher education in comparison to our black sisters, that is very evident. But here the author decides to take a condescending and contradictory tone. First the IHOP date, if you are really interested in a relationship then the venue shouldn’t even matter, enjoy the time and space with this man and learn something about him. Second she contradicted every accolade she listed by telling the story about her musician friend. If he is so beneath her, so uneducated on the books she has in her house, etc then why is he spending the nite in her bed and bathing in her shower?? She did all that soap box preaching to only ALLOW a man who she deems “beneath her intellectual being”, to be what I call “laid up in her house” and how many nights has he done this??? So please miss me and every other “educated” intelligent (bc there is a difference in being intelligent and smart) intellectual black man that sob story bc honestly she comes off as condescending and snobbish. I see why she and her friend are single, bc you be can SMART and DUMB at the same time, and not even realize it.

  • nyet

    My comment was not in reference to the author. I have seen her on youtube and she is a very beautiful woman. It was a general statement regarding the many sisters who, despite being average looking, feel entitled to an Idris Elba or Boris Kodjoe.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @nyet – thank you for clarifying. My mistake. As for wanting an Idris Elba – a girl can dream right – lol !

  • Job

    I think she is average looking. Definitely not ugly. But I KNOW I am average looking. And under 6′ tall. Uneven skin tone. Having an athletic build is my only redemption. So I don’t expect women to ogle me and am not shocked if super attractive women prefer better looking guys.

    As for attractive black women, I like girls with flat stomachs and strong thighs and nice firm bodies. Basically any girl who would look great in a bikini. Facially I like a nice smile and good teeth. I think the model in the photo looks great.

  • Honest

    @OH

    SITYOAZZDOWN

  • Ann

    I’m not sure how old the writer or her friend are but in defense of the man who took his date to IHOP, perhaps he was simply trying to make her feel at ease. With all the lunatics in the world today and the horror stories of people having a first date on Thursday and turning up in a dumpster on Saturday, he just might have planned this on purpose.

    As for the rest of the article, I understand where she is coming from but this thing reeks with the type of condescension that makes people weary of the “ever-suffering single black woman”. Okay so you have a stable career, two degrees and are worldly but rubbing someone’s nose in it or blasting your own horn this way only suggests a strong feeling of discomfort and regret about these life choices. Trust me when I say I understand the frustration that comes with being an educated, accomplished black woman who doesn’t necessarily fit a defining label – it’s awkward, extremely awkward. Does this make dating exceedingly difficult? Yes. However, it doesn’t warrant the arrogant, judgmental tone used by this writer. Just because you have done well in life doesn’t make you better, smarter or even more interesting than the garbage man or bus driver. If anything it seems to have made her a colossal snob who can’t look past her own shallow beliefs to see people for more than their social status, education or income.

    Are there countless educated black women who are still single? Yes. Is it frustrating to be taken on a bad first date? Yes. Is there a solution to this problem? Quite possibly.

    If her friend had asked this guy where he wanted to go maybe they could have agreed on something more pleasing. If the writer didn’t want to date the “musician” she should have told him to buzz off. It sounds to me like both these women are highly educated but with little or no common sense. Stereotypes of black women portray us as loud and opinionated (along with many other things) yet both the ladies in this article appear to have allowed these men to make unilateral decisions which the writer complains about. Perhaps I’m missing something, but where is the sense of personal responsibility? Or at the least, why are these women so quick to complain while doing little to help themselves?

    We all have dating standards, but these women seem to have highly unrealistic expectations. Plenty of black men want an intelligent black woman just not one who constantly reminds them of how smart and cultured they are…that’s just immature and ignorant.

  • me

    I also find that people who are actually “nerds (or blerds or whatever)” don’t have to declare themselves one because their knowledge of that subject says more than the title. People who call themselves that are just creating another mode of separation from “the commoners.”

  • Ann

    @G.D.

    Acceptance into an elite university may not make you a genius, but generally it does mean you’re smarter or at least a more desirable candidate than the people who are rejected.

    I don’t agree with the majority of this article but there is nothing wrong with being proud of oneself for working hard and receiving a good education. The last time I checked, the majority of the most successful people in the world have attended top universities even if they haven’t graduated ex: Bill Gates: Harvard, President Obama: Columbia, Rachel Maddow: Stanford, Bill Clinton: Georgetown, Michelle Obama: Princeton, Mark Zuckerberg: Harvard, W.E.B. DuBois: Harvard, Angela Bassett: Yale

    It’s unusual for a reasonably intelligent individual to prefer DeVry or the University of Phoenix over the University of Chicago or Northwestern.

  • http://www.blackisonline.com KC Lehman

    This article brings up SO many questions for me – I’m going to host a podcast on the topic.

    -Are educated Black women now in a class above the average Black man? Are Black men and women finding they have less in common with one another?
    -Is dating interracially now the sole option for a Black women who is educated and financially self sufficient?
    -Who’s dating educated and financially stable Black men? (many exist, but apparently the sexes aren’t hooking up)
    -One commenter made the point that “degrees don’t get Black men”. Is this true? Also, is a degree required by men of other races to deem a Black woman acceptable enough to date?
    -Does having an education make it unnecessary for a Black woman to use her femininity to attract a man?
    -Finally, do Black men and women just not NEED each other anymore?

    In my personal experience, men in general aren’t overly concerned with a woman’s accomplishments, especially if they see themselves as provider regardless of how much money their spouse/partner earns. I’m a dual language speaking, book reading, architecture and film loving blerd who married a hard working accountant. My husband comes from an affluent Black family, the type of folks that collect art and have summer homes in Martha’s Vineyard and he chose me, a girl from the hood with big dreams and aspirations. I use to worry that I didn’t fit into his milieu but quickly was at ease with his family, as they were all self-made. Though my husband can’t speak Japanese, and is more into numbers than letters, and was raised in a very different environment than I, he is still a great fit for me. When dating we found we had a shared passion for music and black history, and common goals for the type of life we wanted to create. We’ve worked together to build our lives, and it doesn’t matter to me that he can’t discuss Edwidge Danticat novels. I have friends who can. What matters for me is that he supports my career goals, pushes me in fact, and I support him. We’ve grown together, made goals and met them, and after 12 years together, are still going strong.

    I grew up dreaming of Black love and I think more and more people are growing away from the idea that is exists. Not much I can say on that since my choice was to create it – what I do know is that long-term relationships take MUCH more to last than what folks share in common, especially since people in relationships go through changes that aren’t always in sync. It’s possible to date forever (as proven by some of successful single commenters here) but trust that if what you want is a long-term love, it will take work no matter how much you have in common with your significant other. Commitment to love and the long-term has very little to do with accomplishment.

  • Ann Samadhi

    My advice/response to the last part of your editorial is simple, but tried and TRUE: follow your own heart and mind and divorce yourself from the opinions/needs of others.

    Those who move in circles with interests other than your own are likely not worried about explaining themselves to, being understood by, validated on any level, or embraced by you, me, anyone.

    So if your heart’s pining for the “safety” of suburbia tips the 51% mark…easy one. Go.
    And if a harmonica-playing man grates at your being…easy one. Be gone, love. (And next time a bit swifter before the list of ills is so long.)

    Date who YOU want of any race/form and allow the (real or misperceived) slights of strangers with skintones similar to your own to stay with said stranger. Be in the moment with your date.

    The intellectual sometimes overthinks herself away from joy’s doorstep. This comes from a reader/thinker with an equal love/value of silence, walks through nature where there’s no path, and stillness…silence within my own mind. It is in these moments, when I detach and allow the book to slip from my grasp and the thoughts to pause, that I feel my ability to connect with and love ANY fellow traveler on this planet IF. I. SO. CHOOSE.

    I hope you and your sistren find that soul space as well.

  • Ruby

    Are you Kasi Lehman, the director of Eve’s Bayou. That movie is amazing !!

  • http://gravatar.com/mikzyspitlik mikzyspitlik

    I’m a smart, black man and I’ve felt these same things. It’s difficult to find someone compatible with you. The blacks at my university are fucking stupid, only care about strolling in a frat and being “popular”. They consistently hang out in the Student Union talking and laughing whilst everyone else is taking their studies seriously. They’re jealous of me because I don’t talk to them… because they’re stupid and there would be no point. It’s hard to find a date with a GPA above a 3.0 and who actually has a promising future. Hell no I won’t marry or even date you. You’re fucking stupid. Being a smart black man you get it from both sides. There’s the pressure to “sellout” and the pressure to completely throw your life away. I’m surrounded by a bunch of insecure children who want someone to be their daddy and mentor. I like helping people, I really do, but I have my limits. Go fuck those guys over there, go fuck them and have a baby. The Basketball team is full of throbbing hard cocks waiting to leave you with a 2 babies and an attitude. Thanks but no thanks, I’ll stay single for now.

  • http://gravatar.com/mikzyspitlik mikzyspitlik

    You guys are acting butt hurt over the fact that she’s telling the truth. Yes, there is more than one educated black person on this planet. However, even at the University level you have a hard time finding other smart black people. Most of them, at least at my University, see it as a social engagement. Yes, there are dumb Asians and Whites, but the rarity at which you find a smart black person is so slim, so, so, so sooooo slim that it leaves you feeling like you’re the only one on the planet. And dating is as she describes. You’re surrounded by a bunch of shiftless freeloaders who want to sink their claws inside of you so they can take what you have… which ain’t much btw. I’m beginning to attract these lazy ass girls in my life. I want to build something with someone. I don’t want to have to construct a person. I’m becoming so cynical and jaded about the process. Black people, in large part, suck as a dating pool. At least at this age level. No one is serious about their studies or their future. You’re not going to get a job with a degree in Afro Studies. You’re not going to be a doctor if you have a 2.4 GPA. I don’t know what planet some of these girls are living on.

  • SouthernDarling

    This has got to be the most childish response. Maybe it came from a good place but your delivery is childish and seems to come from a jealous place. “They’re jealous of me because I don’t talk to them….and they’re stupid…”?? How old are you? Some people know how to multitask when it comes to their studies and being social. Someone like me who laughed, had fun, AND had a 3.4 GPA (finance major). These are the people who will make it because they know how to network and effectively communicate with others. Your grades will only get you to the interview. They won’t get you the job. Be clear on that. I’m not the sorority type but I don’t sit around hating on them. You seem disgruntled. Perhaps because you were denied?

    All in all, this response just may be worse than the pretentious article. Are you still wondering why you’re single?

  • http://gravatar.com/mikzyspitlik mikzyspitlik

    Just venting pent up frustration. I normally don’t talk like this, but the behavior and stupidity I’ve experienced has made me come to this conclusion. I knew a girl once, in a Biology class, who was making loud noises to entertain the crowd of white students. Who does this? What kind of person does this? Yes, I’m fucking disgruntled. I get tired of the stupidity. I have to deal with a bunch of insecure people who think I’m stuck up and arrogant because I like to READ. I’ve had black students accuse me of “thinking I’m white” because I get good grades. Would this not frustrate you to some degree? I’ve had “friends” attempt to destroy my confidence because of my smarts. Maybe it’s my fault for attracting these kind of people, but after a while I have to vent. Once when I was reading a Physics book I had a girl proclaim to someone else “he doesn’t know”. Who says that kind of shit??? There is something seriously wrong with the state of “black america”. The culture is toxic and it’s destroying our people. And yes, they’re JEALOUS. It’s as childish as I made it sound. I can’t do anything about they’re jealousy… I’m happy that you’re doing well in your major, I really am. But I’m tired of jealous blacks wanting me to fail like they do rather than allow me to teach them. What do you have to say about that?

  • SouthernDarling

    I’ve had black people call me bourgeois and stuck up. But guess what? I’ve had white people do the same. I had a white woman call the AVP to warn her that she thinks I’m trying to take her job because I think that I’m too smart. People of ALL races have their opinions of you, whether they be negative or positive. People of all races are insecure. So what? But you take the frustration out on the social black people? Perhaps YOU’RE alienating them? At least in this post it comes off that way. Youre coming off as pretentious. That never really attracts people. That’s what I have to say Sir. Hope all goes well. I sincerely do.

  • http://gravatar.com/mikzyspitlik mikzyspitlik

    You’re lying if you don’t agree that the problem is far more catastrophic among blacks. There are more black males in prison than in college. What other race has those kinds of stats??? Yes, some white people are stupid, but in my life I’ve had far more assistance from them than I’ve had from blacks. This rant has been a long time coming, and I’m sorry you can’t handle the truth, but “black america” has a serious problem. When you have 70% of your population having out of wedlock children, when you make up 12% of the population but account for 50% of new HIV infections, when you have more of your members with an IQ below 80 than the entire white population which is 5x’s your population, you have a serious fucking problem. The fact that blacks don’t address this is, in large part, the reason why our group continues to fail. And the reason why people are so pissed at this article is because they know everything this woman is saying is true.

  • SouthernDarling

    I don’t deny that your stats are factual. But they have nothing to do with your initial argument. You were addressing “blacks” (as you call us) in college. Your frustrations with how they view you. Correct?

    And the article doesn’t piss me off at all. I think it’s actually funny and it kindve reveals the reasons that she is probably single. There is no humility. AT ALL. It gives off an heir of Im better than because…. I appreciate a black man (they’re my personal fave) that is intelligent and can carry on a conversation. But it is a HUGE turn off for a man to talk about himself as such. “Yeah, I’m smarter than most black. I have 3 degrees.” “I read books that most others wouldn’t read.” “I’m different.” ….those types of statements are (and no shame in showing my age) WACK. Let me come to those conclusions myself. I’m capable of determining if you’re intelligent. Or not. I’m capable of determining if you are indeed “different” (whatever that means).

    She’s single because she’s pretentious. Period.

  • SouthernDarling

    All in all, in regards to your initial argument, you’re judging them as they are judging you.

    What’s the difference?

    (Rhetorical question)

  • Dee

    I agree too!!! Initially I was agreeing with her until I read the following:
    “My father was a factory worker, so that was not it. It was the misrepresentation that we had a career and life experience in common. It made me wish I was a nurse. Then, he would have known better to have thought we might be a match.”
    As a nurse this came off a quite offensive and condescending as I felt it implied we had less to offer intellectually than she did. It was a put down. It was offensive because it felt she was saying if you didn’t speak another language or travel the world our life experiences don’t amount to much. It’s these implications and the overall tone of this blog/article that gives the impression that most black educated women are “stuck up” or full of themselves. I’m not saying she should settle for someone that doesn’t make her feel fulfilled such as this gentleman described. I too look for someone who can stimulate me intellectually emotionally and physically but there’s a a better approach to doing this. Rather than flaunting your credentials around and coming off as arrogant, find some humility. its more attractive. and this article was not attractive in the least.

Latest Stories

Why Oiling Your Scalp May Not Be Such A Bad Idea

by

Nigerian Officials Confirm Release of 44 Abducted School Girls

by

Watch: ‘Black People Mate’ a Parody About the Ridiculous Stats on Black Women & Dating

by

University President Under Fire for Wanting to Make School Less White In the Future

by
More in dating, opinion
NY Post Reports Some Men Believe Long-Term Relationships Begin with “Wrist Bling”
Jodie
The Best (and Most Overlooked) Part of Jodie Foster’s Acceptance Speech

Close