Judge Orders Man To Stop Procreating

by Yesha Callahan

Procreating Stop

A father of four, who owes $97,000 in back child support has been ordered to stop procreating. Judge James Walther, of Elyria, Ohio, handed down the sentence to Asim Taylor and he also received five years’ of probation for failure to pay child support. If Taylor impregnates another woman within this time period, he could face a year in jail.

Judge Walther told the defendant at his sentencing, according to the Lorain county Chronicle-Telegram: “I put this condition on for one reason and one reason alone. It’s your personal responsibility to pay for these kids.”

Of course Taylor’s lawyer finds this unconstitutional. “The Supreme Court has ruled that this particular order is illegal,” says Attorney Douglas Merrill. He says the judge’s ruling violates the father’s rights. Merrill plans on appealing the case on the grounds that it violates Taylor’s right to privacy, citing a previous Ohio Supreme Court decision.

“It’s not a question whether or not if he wants to have more kids. It’s a question of whether or not the government should be telling somebody that they can or they can’t,” explains Merrill. “I’ve heard from at least one of the mother’s that he does do what he can to help support the child.”

Merrill also said that he’s concerned if Taylor does impregnate a woman, that woman might feel pressured to have an abortion to prevent Taylor from going to prison. That could conflict with the U.S. Supreme Court’s landmark Roe v. Wade decision that guarantees a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion.

The judge would be willing to lift the ban if Taylor, “’Can prove to the Court that he is able to provide support for his children he already has and is in fact supporting the children or until a change in conditions warrant.”

When speaking on his own behalf, Taylor admitted to not paying child support. “I take care of my children,” he said. “I just don’t pay them through child support.”

Do you think this order is Constitutional?

  • Winning Yve

    If a man agrees to share custody of the kids and can show the judge that he is taking care of them, dad’s are not forced to pay child support. There are baby daddies all over the place who do not have to pay child support because they are active in their children’s lives paying expenses as necessary.

    I agree with this judge and wish more would follow his lead. Especially after having 2 kids you can’t support, to turn around and create two more, leaving the financial burden on the mother who in turn has to reach out for government assistance isn’t fair to the kids, the mother, or the tax payer.

    The best way to avoid having a judge tell you how much money to give to your kids is to stay present and consistent as a father. DONE and DONE.

  • http://gravatar.com/eynapanirb B.Payne

    As a taxpayer, I agree with the judge’s ruling.

    Even if you tried to explain this to me, I’ll never ever ever understand why low income people continue to create more than one kid. I make money and I still refuse to have a child(ren) because I don’t feel that I make enough to give my child(ren) the life I’d like to give them…one that’s different/better than mine….plus I’m single but that’s another topic.

    I.don’t.get.it!

  • http://www.facebook.com/stephane.lewiswhite Stephane Michelle

    No. It’s not Constitutional…life, liberty, and due process

  • ASK_ME

    In my opinion you give up your life, liberty and due process when you begin depending on taxpayers to survive. Therefore, taxpayers–the folks footing the bill for your mistakes/habits– SHOULD have a say about your life.

  • Shirl

    I have a relative who just had a baby from a guy that has 2 children with another woman. This man does not financially support the children he had and yet my cousin expected a different outcome when she had their son…I don’t get it. Unfortunately a lot of women go into these types of situations with their eyes wide open. Kudos to the judge who’s probably sick of seeing this kind of nonsense day in and day out.

  • KR

    I don’t have a problem with the judges order I do have a problem with women who will applaud this ruling and turn around and be outraged if a judge issued the same ruling to a never married unemployed baby mama on welfare. You can’t have it both ways.

    At what point are black folks going to admit their views on birth control just don’t work? 72% illegitimacy and many abortions as live births? That’s outrageous.

    The narrative of condoms only and female contraceptives are optional/not needed is just plain laughable. It has never worked for any race nor nation in the world. Yet you all are promoting this failed ghetto myth to sexually active black teens and young adults? They’re being setup for failure. Funny thing is a lot of the black women promoting this condoms only nonsense are never married baby mamas or previous clients of abortion clinics. “Shrugz” Yes, plan on using a condom every time but if you don’t want to get pregnant you better have a back up plan. Condoms are good for prevention of STD’s and short term hookups. That’s it. When trust is built and emotions and feeling are involved the condom is almost always not used or not used as often. It’s just a fact of life, regardless of race.

  • apple

    maybe they should get shawty lo too and that guy who had like 20-50 kids that time?

  • Since1989

    ugh here we go again “tax payer this…tax payer that” you will be paying your share of taxes with or without pookie and his kids!

  • http://gravatar.com/s2aebelt AJonsey

    I don’t blame him. I blame the women. Women really to do better and choose better.

  • donnadara

    I still feel sympathy for the judge. It is not fair to weed and seed and not provide support. Children don’t eat whenever this guy feels like taking care of them, they need to eat every day. I think the whole “I take care of my kids, but I don’t pay child support”, is a bunch of bs used by people who don’t want to be consistent. I doubt if he has $97K of receipts.

  • k

    That’s a slippery slope. It’s easy to say that its ok in a situation like this but where do you draw the line?

    I dont necessarily agree with putting dead beat fathers in jail but that seems like a better option than giving the courts the ability to govern our bodies like this

  • kc

    One of the saddest things in the black community today is that we no longer have a “baby with” a man, but a “baby from” or worse, a “baby by” a man. It’s as if the woman is a consumer and the baby is a possession she picks up from the baby store.

    Language is so powerful. We don’t even imply with our words anymore that conceiving a child is a partnership. So sad.

  • http://gravatar.com/langisketches Leo the Yardie Chick

    “This man does not financially support the children he had and yet my cousin expected a different outcome when she had their son…I don’t get it.”

    I don’t get it either. It’s like some women still believe in the fairy tale b.s. that their ‘love’ can change a deadbeat into a fine catch. Makes no sense to me, and I hope it never will.

  • apple

    i’m not one of those people , i would applaud still if they did to a woman who does that, like that homeless woman with 9-10 kids by 7 men or however many trying to stay in that motel without paying

  • AnnT

    When you say things of that nature, you passively say that men ain’t isht and are nothing more than feral animals incapable of making rational decisions.

  • Shelly

    You all are crazy! You really think a judge should be able to tell someone whether or not they can procreate? What’s next? Sterilizing poor people? Where are we, Nazi Germany? The right to reproduce is so basic I can’t even continue to read these foolish comments.

  • Common Sense

    I do not feel that a judge should be ale to tell anyone who can and cannot have children! But on the other hand this fool needs to practice restraint and/or birth control if he cannot afford the children he brings into this world!!!!!! Children are expensive!!!!

  • dee

    Before reading this my first thought was can a judge really do that? I mean I get what the judge was going for but you can’t go banning peoples right to procreate (whether they can take care of the kid or not)

    He’s a judge and knows this. I don’t even know why he’d even attempt to do that.

  • http://commentarybyvalentina.wordpress.com Val

    @Shelly

    It’s already happened in this country. In North Carolina they sterilized poor Black women.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_Board_of_North_Carolina

  • http://theblackparacosmistmind.wordpress.com theblackparacosmistmind

    damn…I didn’t know men were so incapable of controlling their sexualities and penises. Your comment is so cute. And by cute I mean foolish. So you mean to tell me women have to be blamed for EVERYTHING! We’re blamed for being raped, having children, and dressing slutty so now we also have to help men in controlling their crazy sexual desires. smh.

    It takes two. So I blame both of them. How about men and women do better and choose better. And let’s all be in control of our own genitalia. Thanks.

  • Winning Yve

    I get the concern. Banning procreation is a slippery slope but who is going to be responsible for these children. Is it any better to just look the other way while silly people continue to have child after child without having any means or intentions of taking care of them. Nature has a way weeding them out as well (incarceration, gangs, drugs, etc) In the end, the man still has the right to reproduce if he wants to make that choice, but he’ll spend some time in jail for it – which in turn costs the taxpayer more money.

    Curious if anyone has an actual solution???

  • au napptural

    I was just about the say that! I don’t think ppl should be sterilized, but this isn’t equivalent. But with this man it’s like c’mon! The judge didn’t tell him he had to have a vasectomy. He didn’t even deny the man sex. He said take basic MFing precautions so you don’t have kids you can’t afford! Trying to tell the man to have common sense. Geez. I’m mad this trifling dude is spending money to fight the order. Pay the GD child support instead, shiftless negro! Damn.

  • D.T.

    I wish people would stop fussing about their “taxpayer dollars.” As if the reason we pay taxes has Anything to do with social services.

    And no, I don’t agree with the judge’s decision. How is this any different from telling a woman what she can and cannot do with with her body?

  • Kat

    i’m not sure that there is one outside of teaching people to be more responsible BEFORE they procreate. People have been having more kids than they can handle since the beginning of time. It’s just that it costs way more to raise kids nowadays..it’s just one of those things that happen unfortunately

  • lil ray

    Most black men are incapable of making rash decisions, and it about time we black women admit that.

  • LKJ

    You mean Angel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavou_SEj1E

    Her story is the worst.

  • http://gravatar.com/s2aebelt AJonsey

    No. When you have a child by someone, you know darn well if he’s taking care of his other kids or not.

    Just like Shawty Lo. Every Baby mother after #2 knew about the others.

    It’s simple. I’m saying they are BOTH to blame.

  • http://gravatar.com/s2aebelt AJonsey

    Chile boo. Where do these extremes come from? If you have a question about my comment just ask. Don’t make your self look crazy online because you want to generalize about 3 sentences I posted.

    You must be a joy to be around at home.

  • LKJ

    “you will be paying your share of taxes with or without pookie and his kids”

    Maybe, but the tax money collected could be put to other uses, such as infrastructure, security, maybe even healthcare, and education, instead of welfare for people who chose to have children despite being unable to care for them.

    It is understandable if you have a child(ren) and then fall on hard times then by all means government assistance is necessary. It is not okay to have children without any means of supporting them (nor is it fair to your child).

  • leelah

    where and when have black women advocated condoms only? Every sex education program I’ve ever seen embraced female birth control. When I was a teenager the sexual badge of honor was the deprovera shot until word spread about its side effects. Now the favored contraception method is the patch, they hand vouchers for that out at some high schools.–condoms are the only protection from stds. The message should be even if you are on birth control, you still need to use a condom. Its both at all times, despite feelings and commitment, that needs to be emphasized to ALL young people. Instead of blaming black women for some supposed condom only campaign, frankly I think you made this conspiracy up, there are some real issues that should be looked at:
    1. Planned parenthood is still an intimidating place for young women to walk in. Hence the push to allow planned parenthood on high school campuses but alot schools aren’t having that, they don’t even want sex ed taught in the schools
    2. Primary Physicians are reluctant to administer some birth control methods in their office. My doctor wouldn’t give me an IUD and she spoke negatively of both the shot and the patch. We had a very long conversation about the side effects. She would only write me a prescription for birth control pills.
    3. birth control pills are so problematic for me and other women that I didn’t even want that prescription, I threw it away. And took my butt to planned parenthood which I had to pay full price for the doctor visit because my insurance doesn’t cover it(no copay). I’m in my 30s’, married, with one kid, and suffering from MS it shouldn’t be so hard for me to just get a prescription.
    4. I think the one think that never gets talked about is how birth control collides with all this romanticism that comes with sex. People get wrapped up in the moment, the intimacy of skin on skin that these plastic barriers, condoms and dental dams, are just unattractive. On NPR I heard a report about the elderly community and HIV. An old timer was voicing his concern about these changing times: ‘These days you can no longer meet a nice woman and take her back to your place to make love to her. In my days sex was the only free fun we had.” I think his statement describes why so many people have a problem with all the issues that come with sex. –Its a mixture of access to female contraception, money for condoms and female contraception, and this traditional idea of intimacy couple with ‘all we have to do is take our clothes off’ that leads to procreating. Not some hidden message for condoms only by black women. If theres some hidden agenda by black women for condoms only can you please provide a link to something to prove your claims.

  • Starla

    It’s a darn shame that a judge had to threaten someone with incarceration to get them to be responsible. Dude needs a vasectomy asap. I have a strong feeling we will see him in the news again. These ‘modern’ men have no sense of self-control.

    I keep wondering what is sooooooo hard with paying child support? This is by far the easiest thing for a man to do as a parent. They don’t have to worry about any other aspect of the child’s life expect ensure their survival and they still can’t do it. They don’t deal with sick days, cooking, pta meetings, daycare, shopping for clothes, going to the doctor, laundry, building character and values, reading to the child at night..fill in the blanks if I missed something, because I’m sure I have missed something. They don’t have to deal with NONE of all that goes into making a child into a responsible adult and they still can’t do the ONE thing they are called to do…sigh.

  • AM

    If he is going to be put in jail for procreating once again, the woman too should be jailed too, real talk!

  • AnnT

    I don’t think there is a clear definitive solution.
    This is one of those situations that intersect too many human and civil rights.

  • Blue

    We really have no rights to tell people what to do with their bodies but what’s so hard about using some method of birth control?

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    if dude is in jail he cannot procreate (i hope)….

  • KR

    Do you read the comments on this and other black blogs? Do you ever talk to some of these black mamas? The first thing out if their month is… “he shoulda used a condom”. lol

    I’ve seen and heard (condoms only) black women blame condoms for her pregnancy so many times that I’ve lost count.

  • leelah

    Lets just assume all four of this man’s baby mothers are on welfare so you can feel justified in criticizing them and limiting their reproductive rights. we had major welfare reform, which included a welfare to work component. In every state women have to either look for or maintain employment in order to get welfare benefits. On top of that, with the recession welfare benefits have been cut and spread thin, as record numbers of people joined the welfare rolls. So this whole idea of a welfare mother rolling in cash is outdated. Eradicating welfare? eradicating welfare would mean getting rid of society’s safety net for everybody. That means no more benefits for the disabled, elderly, or the baby momma. It also means seeing people and children who need to eat, starving or going without shelter. Hunger is real. And every year homeless people die from exposure.–just because you throw women off of welfare doesn’t mean some dead beat daddy is going to take his children in, providing food, clothes, and shelter. In all likely hood it means just his children will just go hungry.–I live in the suburbs, I pay taxes. I’m paying for road projects that aren’t needed, an expansion of the library that was big enough, and a new stadium for a basketball team that probably won’t come here anyway. My point is I’m paying taxes regardless. If they don’t spend my money on welfare, they’ll find something.

  • AnnT

    AJonsey-I agree with your clarification, but you initially said you don’t blame the man…

  • http://gravatar.com/s2aebelt AJonsey

    @SMH … exactly what I’m saying. All those scenarios you listed are all decisions THAT THE WOMAN MAKES … but I’m wrong for saying WOMEN need to do better and choose better.

    Men will only do what you ALLOW them to do to you … when you. WOMAN have the power. The quicker ladies realize the better off you’ll be.

  • leelah

    newsflash the first thing out of any baby mamas, despite race, mouth is We should’ve used a condom. Like white or latino baby mamas say something different to explain their unplanned pregnancy. Also all these non-black baby mamas with mixed babies indicate that black men have a problem using condoms and need to take responsibility for their own bodies instead of blaming some secret conspiracy by the society of black women. — Emphasis is on condoms because they are most immediate form of birth control. Notice I included the word We, not he because most of the women I know acknowledge that the use of a condom is also their responsibility, not just the man. Comments on a blog or the stories from individual women do not indicate a culturally mandated policy of condoms only.

  • Pat

    @ kc I’ve noticed that language as well. Even for some married women, they tend not to say I’m expecting instead of “my husband and I” are expecting.

    This type of court ruling is like playing soccer on a minefield. Once you start violating a human’s personal rights, it becomes another form of imprisonment. You can’t do this, you can’t do that, or either your desires are limited. It is providing the court system with too much control over our lives when a crime hasn’t been broken. Personal bad decisions aren’t crimes; therefore, the court system is stepping over its boundaries. On the other hand, I do agree some measures being taken b/c these types of situations make me cringe from the woman’s and the man’s perspective.

    It is clear that second thoughts are not given to these situations. These type of men and women simply have it too easy to do better. Men don’t pay and half of them probably prefer the jail alternative instead of paying. The children still are not being provided for (by the fathers). Next the women continue to have babies because the government becomes their backbone. Society has to pay one way or another. If the jail system continues to become jam-packed with men not paying child support or as a preventive measure for not making more babies, then extra money is still needed to build additional correctional facilities. Restrictions with this problem need to take place within one area or another. In my opinion, it should go back to the government. Place a lid on government programs and stop making it easy for people to continue to have children. Help the people who truly need assistance, but after awhile – cut it off. I believe women will not continue to have children by worthless men if they didn’t have any monetarily support from various resources. The men will not keep making babies if the government intervenes as soon as possible. Garnished the first check if he works or when he gets a job… For that amount, this sorry man is going to look forward to being locked up. This judge is tired of seeing this foolishness and wanted to put a stop to it. As outlandish as the ruling may sound, some restrictions are needed. I don’t agree to stop a person from procreating, but if parents are forced (which they shouldn’t be) to take care of their own, they will have sensible thoughts about having a child or more children and by whom.

  • isolde3

    @leelah

    I read your comments in the “open discourse” thread. You’re whip smart when it comes to these types of (women’s/ social justice) issues. Are you in this field professionally?

  • seriously?

    Yay to communism!

  • PBR

    Spare me. In extreme situations sometimes you have to bend the law as-is. I bet if this issue were to make it to the supreme court MOST people would advocate the judges ruling.

  • au napptural

    Oh please. This multi-trillion dollar war has spent up my tax money, my future children’s and etc. on to the 8th generation. It’s funny, people get real antsy about taxes going to help children who didn’t make themselves, who might otherwise starve, but they can pay for this war without murmur. The social services are a drop in the bucket compared to wars and they get all the flack.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    Bingo! I’ am the first person on the brigade of telling people to be responsible with their seed and take personal responsibility and accountability when it comes from the child(ren) they bare and stop this OOWL birthrates and single parent homes. But you CAN NOT order a person to stop procreating under the court of law. That is unconstitutional and violates all kind of due process/personal rights that the paperwork isn’t even funny. And to play devil’s advocate if BLACK men and kids weren’t the face of this particular dilemma would folks and the judge be so quickly to praise and order the same thing… or if it was a black woman the judge said it too would we still cheer… Be careful with the slope you set because while you are thinking you are curving someone else there are others that are trying to curve YOU. But this dude…$97,000 in child support DAMN! Dude needs to get his life and make working and being a father is full time propriety.

  • Job

    Whether or not you agree with the law, it is clearly unconstitutional. It would not even make it to the supreme court. What is an “extreme circumstance?” Who determines that? So you’re telling me unlawful detainment or torture is appropriate in “extreme circumstance”?

  • PBR

    If you want to act like a child don’t be surprised when the world starts treating you like one!

  • Nakia

    I agree with Shelly. This is ridiculous! We do know that poor people have been having children since time began, right? Are you advocating that people in underdeveloped countries stop procreating all together? This discussion thread disturbs me.

    Also, why are we assuming all of these women are on welfare? Women who are not also file for child support all the time.

  • MMK

    As it stands nothing trumps a person’s civil liberties. Look, I get the what the judge was saying, but allowing him to impose such measures means I must allow any judge to do this, including those where neither parent relies on the government for support. Give the government a way in to tell women or men how to use their reproductive organs and it won’t just be for those who receiving government help.

    Now, since this is clearly how a lot of people feel (based on your positive thumbs). Let’s suppose you’ve worked all your life, paid taxes, etc and your unemployment runs out and you now need government assistant — are these people deadbeats? Should they be forced under the same rules as others. The job market is hard for plenty of folks, so I ask this in truly wanting an answer.

    What about those on extended unemployment benefits? These are people beyond the 26 weeks allowed in most states.

    I really think when we get to a state where people on welfare are penalized and marginalized (more than they already are and differently) it will mark the doom of what this country claims to stand for. I for one don’t want any law on the books that allows this. If you want change then start with welfare and its policies. When you look very closely you’ll see that (drum beat please) the system is set-up so those on it stay on it. It’s not an excuse but a fact. If the system in place rewards a woman who keep on having children. etc without truly forcing/making them complete their education, or offer programs to help them get on their feet, then there will be people who will continue to game it. This part is just human nature. And it’s not just those who are on Medicaid who help continue the cycle. Think of the doctors who don’t care about anything but that check from Medicaid for services rendered. Why do you think so much Medicaid fraud happened around this country? Doctors figured their patients were too dumb to read the paperwork that came on how Medicaid paid. They overbilled and billed for things that didn’t happen. So the leeches of society (as some think) aren’t just those on it, but those who benefit from people being on such a system. There are plenty people like the doctors in various agencies who entire business structure is dependent on welfare remaining in place. Think about that.

    Just my 1 cents which may not matter much. I appreciate the dialogue, tho.

  • http://gravatar.com/missinformation7 Ms. Information

    I hate that the court is having to step in as pseudo father to order this man to wrap up….it is embarrassing to say the least….women have more control in this than they think….insanity is doing the same thing and expecting something different..so these chicks are INSANE to have children with men that have proven not to take care of these children and men are insane knowing that the child support system is not their friend…take responsibility for your choices…they need to start limiting welfare to 2 kids per person and have a cut off date for it.

  • http://gravatar.com/langisketches Leo the Yardie Chick

    Hot mess from either side of the fence.

  • KR

    Since you want to bring up white women. Do you know that their illegitimacy rate is 30% and black womens rate is 72%? That’s more than double! I wouldn’t be having this discussion if the black illegitimacy rate was 30%. When you factor in the wide discrepancy in the amount of abortions between black and white women it’s clear who’s using female contraceptives and who isn’t. 60% of never married black baby mamas have MULTIPLE baby daddies. What does that tell you?

    We know condoms alone does not work and has never worked for any race nor nation. It’s not about immediate as if every last one of these young black girls got pregnant the first and only time she had unprotected sex. lol It’s about blacks finally admitting what works and what does not work. Now what exactly, in the hell, are you talking about?

  • MMK

    It’s definitely a slippery slope and I get why the courts are trying to do things like the aforementioned, but like you said where do we draw the line.

    To me welfare is built to keep those on it. We have to ask ourselves why they began to give $$ to people and not create systems and ways to help a person get on their feet. I think Michael Moore’s documentary on welfare to work proved why this system is and has failed. We let babies having babies get on welfare. There needs to be a better system that’s completely temporary. I’ve always believed that healthcare for kids and food for kids were the two programs I liked the mos as a taxpaper – as I never want to punish a child for their parents mistakes, but actual cash money – NEVER. There are tons of ways to help people so they can take of their families. But since we have tons of companies who make profits off those on welfare, it’s a system that has their own corporate lobbyist. I couldn’t believe there were welfare lobbyist. And not some bleeding heart liberal (I’m one myself haha) but corporations who benefit from welfare who hire lobbyist to ensure laws don’t change. Do the research and prepare to have your jaw drop.

  • EST. 1986 (GO RAVENS)

    How much different is this than men passing laws in this country dictating whether or not a woman can abort an unwanted pregnancy?

  • KR

    @leelah

    You’re so caught up in your liberal talking points that you can’t see that these liberal social engineering programs have done something that 400 years of slavery was unable to do. Destroy the black family.

    It’s also an insult to our ancestors who survived without welfare and had productive communities and almost every black kid had a father in the home. To suggest that blacks could not survive without welfare for life. Now, we have black families that have been on welfare 3 and 4 generations. These social engineering programs were suppose to make life better. Instead it’s been a disaster for black kids, black women, the black family and the black community. Who’s kids do you think are terrorizing the black community? Poor black uneducated women wouldn’t be having all these illegitimate kids without welfare.

    Does anyone believe these black baby mamas and their kids are happier and have a better home and family life than married black women and her kids in the 1950′s? That’s really the only thing worth discussing.

  • ASK_ME

    @MMK

    In a country where people are TIRED of footing the bill for irresponsible people I highly doubt MANY of us care about the civil liberties of habitual deadbeats, habitual welfare cases, etc. These people are NOT carrying their weight in society. They are not contributing to society. They are leeches.

    Their civil liberties go out the window once they become dependent on the state/taxpayers. And unfortunately, yes this affects the non-habitual welfare cases too. If you expect to be dependent on the others to support you and your kids then expect to live by our rules and regulations. It’s one of the consequences of the welfare state.

  • victoria

    If the women are supporting their children then they shouldnt have the threat of jail placed upon them. The judge didnt threaten to jail him for having children with dumb women. He ordered him not to have kids because he is NOT providing for them financially.

  • Since1989

    and that is what I am saying people only bring up tax payer money when it comes to someone else getting assitance, they don’t question tax money when it goes towards corporate lending and debt, military spending, infrastructure or anything else; and I’m sure you will be surprised to find out that a majority of your tax dollars do not even go towards welfare, but will still continue to bitch about it anyway. Are you gonna protest about tax payer money going to social security to support elderly people?

  • au napptrual

    I’m thinking about it and the guy might not win his appeal. Judges order DUI cases not to drink all the times, they order abusers into therapy, they dictate what kind of visitation unfit parents can have. This is equivalent. It isn’t a privacy issue, b/c the judge didn’t order anything done to this man. No medical procedures and no curtailing of his freedom to have sex. But he has been ordered not have children. The state could argue since they are forced to spend resources hunting this man down and trying to get him to pay for his children, he is now unfit to make that decision himself. He forfited his right when the court had to become involved repeatedly. This judge is merely stopping him from “reoffending.” The judge has every right to tell him to knock off the behavior that continually brings him to court. This is the justice system ,not a revolving door. This man doesn’t have a right to have children, any more than the DUI has a right to alcohol. Those are privileges contingent on how you behave.

  • AnnT

    Your first sentence contradicts the second one.

  • http://gravatar.com/keimia Kam

    Condoms are the easiest contraceptive to get. I mean they hand these things out for free. Birth control has health effects and requires a prescription. It also needs a while to kick in. So a man should still be using a condom even though a woman is on birth control if he absolutely does not want children with a woman. Also birth control does not prevent disease.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “Curious if anyone has an actual solution???”

    vasectomy….

  • KR

    It’s more about a system that doesn’t work. Welfare black baby mama kids running wild terrorizing the black community, crime, 50% dropout rate and being unproductive ending up in prison or on welfare like their mother.

  • AJW

    Alot of you guys sound like you absolutely HATE lower income blacks.
    Not all black people are the same. Why complain when other races degrade and stereotype us as all the same, then tuen around and do the same thing. Demonizing poor people won’t make the economy better. Alot of poor folks are just as hard working as those that aren’t poor.

    These comments make me sad. This guy’s actions are just as sad.

  • AJW

    I totally agree with you.

  • KR

    @leelah

    You’re so caught up in your liberal talking points that you can’t see that these liberal social engineering programs have done something that 400 years of slavery was unable to do. Destroy the black family.

    It’s also an insult to our ancestors who survived without welfare and had productive communities and almost every black kid had a father in the home. To suggest that blacks could not survive without welfare for life. Now, we have black families that have been on welfare 3 and 4 generations. These social engineering programs were suppose to make life better. Instead it’s been a disaster for black kids, black women, the black family and the black community. Who’s kids do you think are terrorizing the black community? Poor black uneducated women wouldn’t be having all these illegitimate kids without welfare.

    Does anyone believe these black baby mamas and their kids are happier and have a better home and family life than married black women and her kids in the 1950′s? That’s really the only thing worth discussing.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    Never mind constitutional grounds. I like the way this judge thinks, concern for children, tax payers, pro life and holding men accountable all in one. That’s what I call out the box thinking, in fact he needs to up the ante and require birth control shots for all single mothers requesting child support and government assistance.

  • SayWhat

    What if the women are not supporting their children either and are on welfare, should they go to jail as well? I don’t think this issue has an easy fix/answer. On the one hand you have a man who clearly cannot afford to have children and on the other hand you may have women who cannot afford to either, but we are being harsher on him than on the women.

    I have a feeling that if the article was about a woman who could not afford to take care of her kids and was ordered not to have any more, we would be more symphatetic. This guy clearly needs a lesson in personal responsibility, but I’m not ready to give his baby mamas a pass….sorry.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    “ot of you guys sound like you absolutely HATE lower income blacks.”

    Wrong, dead wrong, dead ass wrong. This behavior spans all races, socio-economic backgrounds and educational levels. Sec 77.21 in. LAW OF HUMAN ALCHEMY. RATCHETNESS DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE.

  • mr.vicious

    These women are to grown to be victims, they dont deserve money for sleep with a man who has none..

  • mr.vicious

    If a man can be put in jail for financial reasons than women should be held to the same standard.

    How many of these women will be homeless if it werent for state programs.

    Man cant or dosent pay = jail
    Woman cant afford a child = ebt, section-8, healtchcare..etc

  • AM

    I’m talking about the woman who is going to procreate with him, AFTER this ban has been enacted on his penis activity.

  • http://www.geekmommarants GeekMommaRants

    You’re Jewish? That’s what the Israeli’s did the Ethopian women. Birth Control shots. Salom

  • http://www.facebook.com/kenneshea.allums Kenneshea Allums

    who the hell are these imbeciles posting on facebook. lawd please don’t let it be black women. my heart hopes most of these comments are the results of trolls who look for any outlet to express their bigotry. because i would hope sane black people wouldn’t read an article about black men and women and immediately assume they are welfare recipients. because no where in this piece was it stated that they guy’s baby mothers were on welfare. so how do you all know this ?!

  • mikey kun

    I kinda want this judge to stop lots of folks from procreating.

  • Mademoiselle

    Wow!!! These comments are unbelievable to say the least. Despite my stance that all men (and women) are blessed with a dynamism that allows our free will to overpower our primal instincts in a practice called restraint, I fully believe that procreation is an inalienable right given at birth, not by the courts or opinionated spectators. Not to mention that short of being completely abstinent or undergoing some medical procedure, this ruling is just like a speed trap — waiting for that one sperm to unwittingly go beyond the legal limit (broken condom, missed pill, defective IUD, drunken night, etc), and if the woman he’s involved with isn’t complicit in aborting his accident, he goes to jail. I’d find it especially disturbing for feminists (the “let women make their own choices” crowd) to agree with a judge stripping a man of one of his basic physiological needs. And if we’re going to start using taxes as an excuse for policing random men’s penises, we should go the whole distance and start plucking underachieving kids out of schools, euthanizing people who live past 70, restricting fat people to raw unseasoned vegetables and water, revoking licenses for people who prefer to drive gas guzzlers… everything that has a tax impact should be left to everyone else to decide how to do it, right?

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    You want to put whole story out there put there? If not the problem is…..?

  • Mademoiselle

    Reproduction is not a privilege. It is a right and one of the basic physiological needs of all mammals. No one grants the right to reproduce, therefore it can’t be taken away.

  • leelah

    KR
    welfare is not liberal social engineering. Walkable cities is social engineering. Welfare is a program designed to help with a social problem that would exist even if the welfare system was never invented. Secondly, the black family was broken during slavery. If you know anything about slave practices then u know that. the idea that modern liberal society does more harm to black folks then slavery is insulting and is straight rush limbaugh rhetoric.–black family in the 50s’ broken by the welfare system is just mindblowingly dumb. welfare didn’t break the black family our poor living conditions and the depression that comes along with it splintered the home.

  • Kema

    Why do the vegetables have to be unseasoned? That’s going too far!

  • PBR

    Well maybe it shouldn’t be unconstitutional. When I see the number of fatherless children suffering and the number of men who continue to make them I wonder whose side we are really on (society). Maybe this type of thing would make them think twice about busting inside of some strange woman without thinking of the lives they may affect in the future.

  • leelah

    Smh…following your argument, .if baby mamas on welfare affects her as a tax payer, the original commenter, than so does this father and his right to procreate. –Second the larger issue of ‘eradicating welfare’ is still a hypothetical, a discussion. Whereas this man standing in front of the judge is a present situation. So no the punishment for this man shouldn’t be delayed while we spend the next 10 years debating the eradication of welfare. –mothers on welfare have to follow guidelines to receive their benefits. If they break the rules they get kicked off their program.Thats the equivalent of court intervention for welfare.On top of that a welfare mother still has to financially and physically support their children, with the little bit of money they do make. Despite myths welfare mothers still have to make some money to support their children because the state doesn’t pay all their living expenses. This court is making sure that this father contributes something. The court is penalizing him for his lack of contribution. He’s not being punished because he dared to have four kids. he’s being punished because he had four kids that he refuses to contribute for, which is in defiance of a previous court order, hence him owing $96,000. –What you are talking about is the criminalization of out of wedlock childbirth. So the question is do we want to live in a society where women are punished for unplanned pregnancies? And if the state chooses to punish only women that can’t afford their children, does that equal the persecution of poor women while rich women can do whatever they want?–Note I have heard of women who abuse drugs or abuse their kids being barred from procreating.

  • leelah

    isolde3…thank you women’s issues is one of my passions. I was raped at 18 in a violent home invasion, part of my healing was first volunteering at a rape crisis center. I volunteered with the same organization that sent two volunteers to the hospital to counsel me. Then I worked with an aids support group in the early 90s’. We helped aids patients with their day to day life, running errands, cleaning, and cooking. Then I volunteered at an intake center for foster kids, when they’re first removed from the home. Often these are small children and the center needed volunteers to hold and play with them.Staff members were responsible for feeding and dressing the children but volunteers were needed as support staff. I’ve taken a few sociology, social work, women’s studies, and law classes. But I learned the most about these issues through my volunteer work.

  • EST. 1986 (GO RAVENS)

    “He needs to up the ante and require birth control shots for all single mothers requesting child support and government assistance.”

    Absolutely. It would be perfectly ethical for a judge to require women to have themselves injected with a drug every three months so that they and their children can avoid being homeless and starving.

  • Viola

    If you can’t provide for the material needs for your children: clothing, a home, food, as well as the emotional needs-A judge should not have to tell you to wrap it up or get fixed. This is called being accountable for your responsibilities.

    For those who like to bring up the contrast of Whites and Blacks on welfare lets look at statistics. According to a the most recent census report I could find the 2006 annual report to congress (http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/data… ) says that “African-American families comprised 36 percent of TANF families, white families comprised 33 percent, and 26 percent were Hispanic.” There is only a 3% difference people. If you look at the example of the federal poverty level numbers from 2009 and you too could be eligible for welfare.

    With the way the recession affected millions of Americans the past several years, I want to let you know that it is not just the African Americans who cannot get jobs in this economy. I have seen people with Masters Degrees forced to work in McDonald’s because they could not get a job using their education. Any one of us could be on welfare. Don’t be so quick to add stereotypical bias color who is and who is not on welfare. There are some millionaires who refuse to support their children. Look on your state website under Deadbeat Dads!

    WAKE UP

    The 2009 Poverty Guidelines for the
    48 Contiguous States and the District of Columbia
    Persons in family Poverty guideline
    1 $10,830
    2 14,570
    3 18,310
    4 22,050
    5 25,790
    6 29,530
    7 33,270
    8 37,010
    For families with more than 8 persons, add $3,740 for each additional person.

  • leelah

    KR…I was referring to the excuses you say that black baby mamas use. As if those excuses are any different than the excuses that all baby mamas use. Since you want to bring up the illegitimacy rates of white women, lets go there. Looking beyond ‘the condom broke’ here is some of the reasons for our different situations:
    1. Have you ever heard ‘its not race, its class’. The poor as a group experiences the most social ills. And since the majority of the black population is poor than it stands to reason our illegitimacy rate is higher than the white population. The birthrate is very close statistically for all races in relation to income. In fact as we climb the social economic ladder the birthrate goes down for all races. The more educated, the more affluent, the more skilled population, the lower the birthrate. And since there’s more white women in college then any other group, including white men, then it makes since that their birthrate is lower.
    2. the average college campus takes a very liberal planned parenthood approach to reproduction. Most colleges have a health center, which provides very low cost health care, part of their mission is to get the majority of its female population on birth control. In the health center condoms are free. heck at the front desk of most dorms they have a supply of condoms. and female contraception is cheap because its subsidized by the college. after all if your female population has a high pregnancy rate than your school has a low graduation rate. do you see how unplanned pregnancies can be a problem for a college?
    3. the poor, especially black people, are depressed. With depression comes despair and drug abuse(mostly casual), alcohol abuse, and poor planning for the future. Couple that with the lack of romance for marriage and family, and black people have very little incentive to wait for marriage because a lot of people feel that marriage is out of their reach.
    4. No one ever talks about the sexual history of the majority of black women. The majority of black women 1 in 4 will be raped or molested before the age of 18. Women with a history of sexual violence or molestation have the worst stats among any group of women, high birthrates, high stds’, high mental illness(including depression), high drug and alcohol abuse, and the highest crime rate(for prostitution its 90%).–above all, women who survive any sexual violation see and experience sex, love, marriage, and family differently.
    5. Just like the things that poor black men see and experience affect their mental health, involvement in gangs and crime, drug and alcohol abuse the same is true for poor black women. But on top of all of that poor black women have to deal with pregnancy. Brothers deal with getting caught up and sisters deal with getting knocked up.
    6. But if you insist on comparing white women and black women(as if we’re equals) the fair thing to do is compare black men to white men. On all social measures black men have worse numbers than white men, including out of wedlock births. But lets not limit it to black illegitimacy, look at marriage rates, divorce rates, crime stats, drug and alcohol abuse, and even domestic violence.
    7.But on the real, living in a white suburb, most of the black men date white women. I see and know alot of white single mothers raising mixed children. I see alot of young white teen girls with their mixed babies. And I see alot of young black men walking around with their mixed babies like they never heard of a condom. At my daughters gymnastics class I even heard a white grandfather asking the black baby father when was he going to marry his daughter. Lets stop pretending that illegitimate kids is only the concern of black women because those black statistics are following black men to their interracial relationships. In fact a third of black children in foster care is now biracial so that should tell you something.–white people now have a joke. Once you go black, you become a baby mother.

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  • Since1989

    Tell me about it. Just go to any white comment board and you won’t be able to tell the difference. I see the programming is complete.

  • useless black middle class

    My hope is that black people wouldn’t think it ok to demonize if the people in this story even if it was stated that they were all on welfare.

    .

  • http://defendingmoney.wordpress.com Marketing Gimmicks

    Amen Sister!

  • Chelley5483

    Agreed Kenneshea… Said absolutely nothing about welfare. The welfare component has been added because it’s a popular topic among blacks/about blacks and people like to be entertained it seems. I had to read the article again to make sure I wasn’t crazy. Since when does and order of child support from one parent mean the other parent is on welfare?

  • AJW

    If you say so. I know what I see when I read these comments. Most articles about lower income blacks are full of vitrol. Full of hatred.

    I stand by my comment.

  • AJW

    I was agreeing with @ au napptural.

  • Wanda

    This is the result of now having a culture that treats sex like it is a hobby or board game like bingo or checkers.

    I do remember times when a child was born to unmarried parents that the child was taken away from the mother and sent to live with married, stable relatives — so there was no incentive like welfare or child support as an excuse to fall back on for needlessly procreating.

    We now have the most, confused and chaotic generation of folks that we have ever had because of mess like this. SMH.

  • E.M.S.

    It’s a tough call. While no child should be put in a situation where they are made to suffer due to parental missteps by the mother OR the father (financial or otherwise), the government doesn’t have a right to control a person’s body. We’d be no better in telling him not to have kids than anybody telling women they can’t have contraception or abort.

    But if a ruling like that became a law it would probably keep a lot of men from making babies they can’t or don’t want to take care of….

  • KR

    Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with it. What happened to the black man and the black family? Social engineering of white liberals (welfare) devalued men by giving poor jobless women the financial means (housing, food, clothing) to have and support for a family without men I suggest you read an article 40 years if lies. The black family.

    This baby mama and bums is a recent phenomenon. From the end of slavery until 1920 the black out-of-wedlock birth ratio was about 10%. From 1920 until 1960 (40 Years) this ratio went up to ONLY 20 PERCENT!! After liberals social engineering (welfare) In 1970, (10 years) the ratio went up 18% to 38 percent!!! In 1980, (10 years) it went up another 17% to 55 percent. In 1990, it was 67. Today it’s 72%+. There is much historical documented data that shows the black man didn’t always abandon the the black woman. As a matter of fact, there were some decades between 1900 to 1960 that show the black woman married at a higher percentage than white women. We also know that up until 1960 almost every black kid had a father in the home.These are facts not pie in the sky revisionist history

  • KR

    @Lelaah

    all cultures except American black women (post 1960) hold UNMARRIED women responsible for their pregnancy. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it works!!! Thirdly, the illegitimacy rate for white women with a bachelors degree (ie white feminist) is 4 to 6%. That’s as close to zero as you can get. 80 to 88% of women in western Europe who do not want to get pregnant use female contraceptives. That’s almost 100% coverage. Fourth & Lastly, blacks aren’t having anymore nor less unprotected s3x than whites.

  • SayWhat

    I disagree. Black men were very happy to leave the house when the welfare case worker came to make sure that the woman was single, black men were very happy to eat the food bought from food stamps.
    Ironically enough, while black women had to be single mothers, women of other races, for example jewish women did not. We got suckered in because so many of us saw welfare as reparations, but as always, they were 10 steps ahead of us.
    They got us to sacrifice stability for chump change, caused a wedge in our household (it’s very hard to respect someone who doesn’t contribute to the household) and used us as a scapegoat. For DECADES the face of welfare was a fat, dark skinned black woman, when they knew this was not true.
    So if you’re going to tell a story, tell the whole story. This mess does not lie with just black women, let’s not pretend that black men weren’t encouraging their girlfriends/baby mamas to go to the welfare office. We are all complicit.
    *By ‘we’ I mean community, don’t take it literally.

  • Rosey

    From a legal perspective, I think the ruling is wrong and unconstitutional.

    From a child support prosecutor’s perspective, I wish that people like this man would stop procreating. It hurts my heart that the mom (and the state) have to pick up the slack. Let’s invest in birth control and tell people to only have kids if they can afford them!

  • leelah

    SMH

    Face meets palm! I give up! I’m convinced men like you fall back on this welfare mother rhetoric for any and every issue. This man is in court for defying a court order and you talking about penalizing his baby mamas for the welfare you think their on. Hello, the issue is him and his child support, and the court he’s freakin’ standing in front of.

  • Denny

    It’s about time someone did something like. Your welfare should be cut off also after your 90th welfare lifer child.

  • pet

    KR=SMH….and they both need to STFU!

  • Moe

    While I know the order is not Constitutional, I can’t help but agree with it. I’m beyond tired of seeing us create lives that we are unwilling and unable to care for. It isn’t fair to the children, parents, or society. How much longer will black men and women continue to play the role of stud and brood mare in this country? There are lives at risk and we continue to play games!

  • Melani

    I’ve never understood how ‘the story of the guy who helped get me pregnant and left me’ isn’t done to death by now. These women see it happen to their mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, and friends then think the outcome is going to be different. WTH?

    The simple fact is that if a man won’t care for his own flesh and blood–he won’t care for you or any children he fathers with you. Geesh! It’s not rocket science.

    Don’t let your life be the after-school-special or today’s lesson!!

  • Melani

    In the words of Riley Freeman from the Boondocks,
    “Oh yes, the victim! At what point does PERSONAL responsibility become a factor in this equation?’

    On the one hand, we yell and scream, “My body–my rights”. On the other, we say “Birth control was the man’s responsibility!”

    Can’t. Have. It. Both. Ways.

    Each of us is ultimately the captain of our own destiny. We owe it to ourselves to make the best decisions possible. Having a gaggle of children with a gaggle men who aren’t WILLING to care for them isn’t a great decision, I’m guessing.

  • Melani

    Agreed!

    For some reason, we have this subconscious belief that the women involved are decent, upstanding people…and some of them could be. But not all of them are.

    We don’t know that he’s never worn a condom. How do we know that none of the women sought to trap him into a relationship by becoming pregnant? Don’t act shocked, it DOES happen.

    I believe that there were TWO consenting adults in the bedroom and if the man has to pay for his children, the women need to as well. It could be argued that the women aren’t supporting their children either if they are on welfare and are not working themselves. Believe it or not, just because a woman has custody of her child it doesn’t automatically make her the best parent nor does it mean that she is actually taking care of the child(ren).

    I’m just saying that we can’t rip black men without pointing all those fingers back at ourselves as black women. WE have got to be more careful and thoughtful about the decisions we make.

  • Melani

    Nail. Hammer. *THWACK*

    Wanda speaks the truth.

    At the end of the day, our community has to reevaluate our morals, values, and priorities. Indescriminate, uncommitted sex is one way that we are creating a well of poverty, hopelessness, and despair that will slowly eradicate our culture from the inside out.

    We’ve got to get wiser and do better.

  • Positive and Insightful Discussion

    I see you comment a lot SMH and most of the time it’s filled with hate speech and hateful comments, which I don’t understand. I’m not sure if people have addressed you before, but I will.

    It’s one thing to disagree with someone, but it’s different when you fire personal attacks and insults. It doesn’t validate your point nor does it make the other commenter think critically about your assertions. Isn’t the point to have a dialogue and discussion on these online communities?

    This is how commenting becomes trolling, or better yet, a form of cyber-bullying. Why sound like a 14 yr old bully, when you can just be another adult disagreeing with another comment? When you say things like, “that’s why your father left your mother,” you add nothing to the discussion but make yourself look like an insecure and inarticulate fool. And you may have something positive and critical to add to the discussion, but all of that is negated when you fire these asinine insults versus a well-thought out retort that could potentially allow the rest of the community to think about.

    Cheers.

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