alone

Last Sunday afternoon found me on my knees, waist deep in the corner cupboard of my kitchen, looking for the damned lid for my favorite saucepan. Here it is! … no, too big … finally! … mmm, no—steamer top … aha! … God, I don’t know what this one fits. Eventually, like a real-life, natural-haired Goldilocks, I found the just-right topper, and dinner was saved. That old saying is right: There is a lid for every pot.

That adage is about love and not cooking. In fact, the idea of a woman finding a partner, who uniquely fits who she is, has been lost amid concern (-trolling) about female singleness, especially black female singleness. America’s new national pastime is schooling black women, nearly 46 percent of whom have never married*, on what we need to change to convince some guy to put a ring on it. In other words, ladies: If you can’t find the lid, the pot must need “fixing.”

Often the (heteronormative) suggestion is that black single women need to better understand the allegedly universal needs of men. To be fair, Cosmo and Glamour were telling women how to please men long before Steve Harvey, Michael Baisden, and Tyrese became authors. Blaming women for being single is a sexist problem with a deep history. And the rhetoric is — and always has been — off base:

It sells women short
Relentless criticism of single black women is predicated on the idea that a woman not chosen as a wife is somehow defective. That is not how we view single men. (And, by the way, nearly 49 percent of black men have never married.) Singleness does not equal brokenness. Not every woman wants to get married. Not every woman wants a man. And even women who want to marry someday can have full and happy lives should that dream not come true.

It sells men short
All men are not the same. All black men are not the same. Any romantic advice predicated on men being simple creatures only interested in having sex and being “the leader” in all things is offensive. The men I know are far deeper and more complicated than that.

It’s not the way to a healthy relationship
The other day, I asked my husband of nearly 12 years what he thinks is the key to a successful marriage. He said the best thing you can do to ensure a good marriage is to know yourself, what you need, and what you want; then choose a partner wisely. I agree. (And that, by the way, is one reason of many why I married my sweetie: He’s a smart guy.)

For more than a year, I have been interviewing black women for a book on love and marriage and have been lucky to hear sistahs talk about their real-life relationships and depth of connection with their partners.

Danielle, a married 30-something awaiting her first child, said of her husband, “From the moment we got together, it was perfect. We were very much in the same place. We have a lot in common — a similar mindset and way of thinking.” Recalling the word games the couple likes to play, she adds, “The nerds inside us speak to each other.”

The action plan being sold to black women is, sadly, not one likely to result in the kind of love Danielle describes, based on friendship, mutual respect, and common ground. How can a black woman find someone to love her just as she is if she is constantly encouraged to be someone else — to execute some rote and reductive performance to appeal to the opposite sex?

On a literal lid hunt, one looks for the top that suits the particular contours and properties of the bottom. No one would dream of perching a saucepan lid on a cast iron skillet and expect the fried chicken to turn out right. And you wouldn’t take a hammer to your crockpot to make some random cover fit. But society constantly bangs on black women in an effort to mold us into something allegedly more attractive to potential partners — as if our needs are secondary and as if they don’t really care about healthy partnerships, but just marriage for marriage’s sake.

Committed love isn’t about learning what “men” want and waiting to be chosen; it is about knowing what you want, choosing the right man (or the right woman), and working toward mutual happiness.

*According to the 2010 United States Census, 45.5 percent of black women, age 15 and over, have never been married; 48.9 percent of black men in the same age group have never been married.
  • Cammy

    I absolutely loved reading this article – great perspective, Tami. Can’t wait for your book!

  • Anthony

    This article is a sweet dose of common sense!

  • nattral

    The best thing a woman can tell herself is, “I am enough”. I’m a single gal and that is my daily mantra.

  • http://elegantblackwoman.blogspot.com Elegance

    Yes, well if you are a woman who likes to hit men, nag, cheat, and ignore your man then the answer is to find a man who will put up with that instead of trying to be nicer and more respectful/ If you are a nasty person just find someone who likes nasty people….SMH

  • http://gravatar.com/whattamisaid Tami (Clutch Contributor)

    Thank you for your comment, but I hope it is clear that no one would encourage men or women, single or married, to cultivate bad habits, especially a propensity for violence. But that is a strawman argument, isn’t it? Most single people, of whatever race, aren’t abusers, cheaters and naggers; they simply haven’t found the right match yet.

  • http://ladyjadeyjazz.wordpress.com ladyjadeyjazz

    Nice to know barefoot and pregnant works for Perspective.

  • http://ladyjadeyjazz.wordpress.com ladyjadeyjazz

    And I’m glad that 15 year olds aren’t married.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    um, there are plenty of children in the black community…

  • Stanley

    Great article

    No human being NEEDS a relationship with another human being to live a happy life. No one needs a woman or a man. People have been living wonderful life without partners, marriages and kids for a long time. I think this has long been settled.

    Mrs. TAMI WINFREY HARRIS said: “Committed love isn’t about learning what “men” want and waiting to be CHOSEN.” And then she get kind of confusing in the very next sentence saying: It is about knowing what you want, CHOOSING the right man (or the right WOMAN), and working toward mutual happiness. So she simply finds the most confusing way to acknowledge that we are all going to be a choice to our desired partner all the while trying her best to take away all the responsibilities from women to make themselves the BEST CHOICE to their desired men.

    Please don’t get me wrong here. I really like this article. I only disagree with some of the last paragraph. I’d prefer it like this: Committed relationship is about knowing what we want and learning what our (desired) partner wants so we can work on building something together. I just think it is a smart idea for a woman to learn about the quality of woman the man she desired may want. Let me tell you this one clearer way. A MAN DOESN’T NEED A WOMAN. A man may want to do a certain things in life with a woman just like a woman may want to do a certain things in life with a man.

  • Since1989

    Perspective, believe it or not men are still running things, dysfunctional black community or not, men set the bar. Women are told they need to change to appease to men if they want to get married, because by patriarchal standards, men do the proposing, men find their wife; not the other way around. Men are never told they need to change or mold themselves to find a mate, and they are not looked at funny if they are still single by a certain age.

    Black women are NOT withholding black men from building families, communities, palaces, castles and nations. Black men are the ones holding themselves back and making a whole bunch of excuses in the process; in a still very male dominated, male run patriarchal society, scape goating. The black woman is always the scape goat for the black man’s problems. She is always THE problem.

  • http://gravatar.com/deechagirl mypointiz…

    makes me fortunate that i chose to not base my existence on bearing kids and chasing after a ring.

    *shrug* diff’rent strokes…

  • http://www.myblackfriendsays.com myblackfriendsays

    Well, if a woman has no interest in getting married–then obviously articles about “how to get married” are not for her.

    At the same time, lots of men and women DO want to get married. They want to have a partner to spend the rest of their lives with. Is there something wrong with this? No, but I think in U.S. society you are seen as a “loser” or “desperate” if you admit that finding someone is something that is important to you.

    If finding a life partner is important to you, then you must treat it like any other goal you have in life. You must take concrete steps toward meeting your goal. Mr. Right is not going to come knocking on your door while you are sitting on your couch in sweatpants watching 30 Rock reruns.

    I also think women need to get rid of these lists that have 50+ criteria their ideal man must have. Like, “He must like this kind of music, between this height and this height, like red wine more than white, etc.” Throw those lists away!

    Make a list of 5-10 personality traits and go from there. Ok, fine, if “hot” is one of the things on the list–I won’t be mad at you. But realize that you can find a lot of different physical types attractive…especially after you get to know them.

    When I was single, I read a book called “Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others” by John Molloy. If it sounds too dweeby for you, then don’t read it. But I thought it had a lot of helpful information, and I would recommend it to any woman that is interested in finding the right person.

    And now, to end it on a super cheesy note, a quote for you all…

    “It is a risk to love.
    What if it doesn’t work out?
    Ah, but what if it does.”

    Peter McWilliams

  • http://defendingmoney.wordpress.com Marketing Gimmicks

    These articles will always attract visitors cause no matter how many ways you slice them it’s human nature to want and desire companionship. Marriage and how it’s shoved down our throat as proof of your worth is criminal but most people want and need somebody to love. This is human nature and no amount of “applied thinking” is going to change that. But in order for women…and black women to admit this it will require vulnerability and opening up your heart to this truth.

    It saddens me that the numbers for black women finding true companionship are stacked against us and this creation isn’t of our own doing; it is by intentional design to keep the black community ripped apart. I see it in my very own church. Women in their late thirties, forties, and fifties making Jesus their spiritual crutch and their “faux” husband.

    I’d like to see Clutch address that sadness and bitterness that many women have when they are lonely, empty and broken and can’t admit that to themselves. *Big Gulp*

  • ASK_ME

    “Black women are NOT withholding black men from building families, communities, palaces, castles and nations.”

    And this is the truth that his kind HATE to face. It ain’t happening here in America and it’s not happening any place else where black men are concentrated.

  • Crimson

    I thought i was the only one who caught that “interesting” population sample.haha!

  • Tallulah Belle

    @ Perspective.

    This piece Ms. Winfrey has written is a Clutch Classic.

    You seem unhappy. And, that is okay.

    You should read more of the works of the Enlightenment philosophers. I see you are agonizing over the basics of modern life.

    Your analysis of Black women and our “societal role” is obviously archaic. I see that you are struggling with some fundamental notions of “happiness,” choice and independent thought. Can I suggest the works of Thoreau or Gandhi for starters? These two thinkers will help to clarify your train of thought a great deal.

    Also, the word is “Libertarian,” not “libritarianism.” You spelled it wrong and you referenced the underpinnings of this philosophical paradigm incorrectly. Wholly incorrectly; in an effort to degrade: 1). women and 2). Black women, by suggesting that our sole purpose in life is to procreate. That is ridiculous. You obviously realize that.

    Note: Libertarianism as a socio-political leaning emerges from the French school of Anarchistic thought. It also has Consequentialist leanings. So, your above analysis of Black women, and their choices, is weak, at best. Again, can I suggest the works of Emile Armand or Milton Friedman (more of an economist).

    Possibly, you are critiquing the author’s suggestion that much of happiness is founded in Lockean notions of Liberalism. Specifically, she refers to self-knowledge, peace, choice and free will. This is nothing new and has proven a real truth for all who practice it. So, the author is correct here and her reasoning is sound.

    Ultimately, your rashly drawn analysis is brutish, angry, misogynist, harsh and likely a mask for your own resentment toward Black womens freedom to choose their lifestyles and the elements that may comprise it, toward true fulfillment and happiness.

  • Chelley5483

    This Perspective dude concerns the hell out of me. We were already nervous that the black community produced mass numbers of inmates, thugs, gangsters and losers in the 70s, 80s and 90s. That was the constant topic of discussion growing up. Now we’re producing whiny, non-leading, finger-pointing (I don’t know anyone I consider a “leader” constantly pointing fingers btw), self-aggrandizing, weak, rambling black men. This new breed of black men, blaming black women for ALL the problems that could possibly occur within the Milky Way, is no better than the baggy pant, wearing, gun toting thug. Now we just have crybaby internet thugs, slinging rhetoric THEY don’t even fully comprehend. Useless.

    Examples of Leaders: Martin Luther King Jr., Abraham Lincoln, Nelson Mandela. All had a vision that would be ideal and many people would benefit from, they then did what was necessary to make the vision a reality. No whining, no b.s., pure action. If you are supposed to lead, you don’t waste time crying to death to the “so-called follower.” You get the hell up and lead. Counterproductive @ss…….

    And my goodness, Mrs. Winfrey Harris was not criticizing black men. She’s purporting that her experience with men has lead her to believe that they’re more complex than some simple sex hungry, chest-pounding barbarians. I would also hope that to be the case as well. Read about a black woman who writes the word “lead” and all hell breaks loose even if the statement was meant to be a complimentary one. Wow.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    damn!

  • http://elegantblackwoman.blogspot.com Elegance

    It’s not a strawman argument. My point is, there are some people who actually have bad personal habits and difficulty getting along with most people. Some people just push others away and have personal issues they need to deal with that get in the way of their relationships. They need to deal with their issues.

    Of course some don’t but some really do. People need to take a self evaluation to figure out if the problem is that they haven’t found the right person or if they were always in the presence of great men but turned them off in some way due to behaviours that everyone around them can see.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “A MAN DOESN’T NEED A WOMAN”

    yes, we do…

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    the black community is under the domination of the global system of white supremacy. until you understand that everything else you see will confuse you.

  • http://gravatar.com/whattamisaid Tami (Clutch Contributor)

    Thank you for your comment. I know that statistic is strange, but it is how the Census measures marriage statistics. Not sure why, but my guess is that maybe somewhere in the US people may be able to marry at 15 with parental consent.

  • Chelley5483

    If the black community is patriarchal please write below in what ways do Black men allocate or dispense anything that black women need for their survival

    Jobs?

    Defense?

    Shelter?

    Wealth?

    Education?

    Therein lies the problem! Black matriarchy was born directly from a large number of black men being incapable or voluntarily unavailable to provide the above listed resources for their women or their offspring. Please ask yourself how white women, original founders of the feminist movement, who are still reaping benefits from the movement, were able to continue to sustain a patriarchal society. Why didn’t white men walk away from these women who demanded equal rights, equal partnership, equal leadership? Matriarchy is not even close to the reason why the black community is in the state that it’s in.

  • E.M.S.

    I think we need to focus and discuss more on good relationships, not marriage specifically. I have nothing against people who want to get married, but I tend to roll my eyes a bit when the subject comes up because I feel like talking about marriage all the time or only puts the cart before the horse.

    Personally I think the ultimate goal is a good relationship (kind of like soul mate status), not marriage. If you happened to get married as a result of that relationship, wonderful.

    As for others telling women what they need to do or how they need to be, I block it all out. Nobody else knows what I’m after except me, and the last time I took someone’s advice it ended very badly. I think women should figure it out on their own, not go flocking to magazines, blogs, or most other sources for the “secret” to happiness with a companion. The pursuit is different for each of us.

  • Treece

    This piece is nothing but the truth! Love it. This is why I don’t listen or entertain any of these books and advice columns men write about what a women should be. Like Mary J. says, “take me as I am or have nothing at all….I can only be ME”. It’s about finding that man that is complimentary to me and “fits”. I don’t and shouldn’t have to change, and neither should he. You just have to find the right lid, because we are all different people. Plain and simple. Previous commenters have said things about patriarchal societies in Black communities and how they are now non-existent….yada, yada, yada. If that works for you and YOUR woman, great! That is not a situation that fits every Black man or every Black woman. If you feel the need to be a strong and authoritive head of the household type dude, and your wife/girlfriend is okay with taking more of a submissive role, awesome. But that doesn’t work for everyone. Blanket statements are inherently faulty. That’s why Steve Harvey, Tyrese (even though I love his music), and Michael Baisden can kick rocks with broken left toe as far as I’m concerned. They aren’t get a red cent from me to go towards any of that foolishness….

  • ASK_ME

    Good! Someone got a clue and deleted the spam that was plaguing this post. Good work!

  • Jeanette

    @ Treece, you took the words right out of my mouth…AMEN and AMEN again! The other day I had a guy to tell me that there is a shortage of black men so black women need to take what they can get. Before I hung up in his damn face, I told that b*tch to kick rocks!

  • KR

    The biggest ghetto myth is there are no “good men” for young black women and there are plenty of “good men” for black women in their 30′s and 40′s (out of her prime) usually w/kids. Flawed logic.

    This don’t settle/wait until your 30′s to get married is nothing more than Black Feminist PC version of “I don’t need a man. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Anyone who thinks a black woman in her 20′s strategically planning and looking for a husband is desperate hasn’t seen a never married 30 something or 40 something year old black woman trying to keep or get the man she wants to marry her. lol There are millions of Kenya Moore’s who could have gotten married in their 20′s but waited too long and are now out of their prime and can’t keep nor get the Walters of the world to put a ring on it. Now, who’s fault is that?

    The really sad thing is this not settling/ waiting has trickled down to uneducated and unskilled young black women many with no job or in low skill jobs who have no interest in furthering their education on aid or living check to check (80% of black women don’t have a degree). These women are now in their 30′s and 40′s many w/kids looking for a husband. Sorry but not many men with good or bad jobs are going to sign up for that. The truth is it’s only a small amount of black women “ballers” traveling working 60/70 hrs a wk. who really had to sacrifice marriage for career. The point? Are these black women happier with their home family life than their grand/greatmothers pre 1960′s when the overwhelming majority of black women were married and almost every black child had a father in the home? I don’t think so. A lot of these Blacks Feminist have revised their message and are now are trying to tell never married 40+ year old black women that their situation is normal and everything is ok. Don’t believe their myths and lies. Never married women by race. Today 31 percent of African American women (THIRTYONE PERCENT!!!) by their early forties have never married as compared to only 9 percent of White, 11 percent of Asian , and 12 percent of Latino women in the same age group. What happened to the Black Matriarch Utopia that Black Feminist promised? lol

  • Jeanette

    That’s why Steve Harvey, Tyrese (even though I love his music), and Michael Baisden can kick rocks with broken left toe as far as I’m concerned. They aren’t get a red cent from me to go towards any of that foolishness….

    @Treece, my sentiments exactly! I love the “broken left toe” thing. Imma use that one. Anyway, all those LONELY women that are being suckered into reading this crap don’t make no damn sense. It’s the same old trash men have been writing for years, just with new faces.

    Many lonely, hard up women look and at me and wonder how can I be alone or should I say “without a man” because I am not alone. And then there are those very few women who are with a quality man that understand my choice. If I find someone that’s good to go then cool, if not, still cool. There’s no rush to get married, time is not running out ladies. I really enjoy my alone time and NO ONE is going to come in my space and mess that up if they are not what I want.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    Alabama The age of consent is eighteen. With parental consent, parties can marry at age fourteen. However, this parental consent is not required if the minor has already been married…(?!)

  • Stanley

    We as a society will always need both gender. Please, don’t confuse A MAN with WE. Society’s needs is very different from what one person cannot live with.

    Every individual man and woman can and a lot of people do live without a man or a woman. Society cannot live without neither. That is pretty clear in the article itself.

  • lol

    i knew there was a reason i liked your comments!

    i read that book too and it changed a lot for me, good recommendation.

  • Jeanette

    @ KR,

    And where there are women with kids, there are also men with kids. And NO woman with a good or bad job will want an uneducated man with baggage either. Really, you sound worse that the drug dealing thug out on the street. And I AM that “baller” you speak of that has a great career and no kids and just like I won’t settle for the bad boy type, I damn sure won’t settle for the a black misogynist like you either.

  • Jeanette

    Damn, I thought I was the only one who caught that too *blank stare* lol. Great article nonetheless.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    Basically! If a man’s lid doesn’t like your pot that doesn’t mean you still shouldn’t be cooking.

  • ASK_ME

    You must live in a hole. I don’t know any childless black women that are checking for black men with children either.

  • Uh huh

    With an attitude like that I’m sure no man is looking for you or will be anytime soon.

  • Uh huh

    You call the current condition of Black women “true fulfillment and happiness”? You most certainly are delusional.

  • http://gravatar.com/whattamisaid Tami (Clutch Contributor)

    “The biggest ghetto myth is there are no “good men” for young black women and there are plenty of “good men” for black women in their 30′s and 40′s (out of her prime) usually w/kids. Flawed logic.”

    @KR, I’m not sure how this sentiment relates to the article, which clearly states that there ARE good men, though most instructions on what men want would make you think otherwise. My point is that both men and women should understand their own needs and look for a mate that is compatible with those needs, rather than bending to fit some reductive nonsense.

    I would prefer that a women marry (if she wants to marry) the right partner and build a successful committed relationship in middle age than marry the wrong man and raise children in an unhealthy, unstable union in her 20s.

    it is interesting that so many men responding to this article believe women being satisfied and happy and able to choose a partner is somehow the enemy of healthy black relationships. It is actually the KEY to black hetero relationships.

  • Jeanette

    @ Uh huh,

    That screen name sound likes a dumb guys comment. Of course you would say that, that is what ALL WEAK men say when a woman speaks her mind and let it be known that she is not going to settle for less. And, yes, you are LESS that’s why you got offended by my message. You punks need to stop inserting yourselves in these conversations that have nothing to do with you. Sissy sitting online reading girlie articles while polishing your damn nails!

  • victoria

    Great comment.

    So often women say they wont settle for just any man (for which, I agree); yet, they will settle for not marrying and having kids when this is something that their heart desires. I say, dont settle for neither.

  • Uh huh

    For your information I am a woman. Females like you make me sick and judging by your singleness, it’s making the men around you sick as well. Do you think comments like the one I made above are only made by men? You really think all black women are delusional and messed up in the head like you? Keep wishing ma’am. And going in on my screen name just shows how simple minded you really are. It’s just a screen name.

  • Jeanette

    @ KR, this is more bitter black misogynist nonsense! Please go and get some education and stop believing everything you read on google search. Someone was right when they said you must “live in a hole.” Ok, groundhog boy maybe I’ll see you in the spring. I’m signing off because I have to move on to more important things.

  • Cheers

    What exactly is the connection between the article and your points? If anything, the nytimes article does more to support Tami’s argument. the nytimes writer had clearly found her “lid to the pot”, the right man for her, she knew herself and she knew her man, which is actually what Tami Harris is encouraging. But nowhere did Tami discourage marriage or engage in any of the fear-mongering of marital commitment, which the nytimes author appeared to have fallen for.

  • ASK_ME

    @KR

    CHILDLESS black women are no more interested in black men with children than the other way around. In fact, I would venture to say these women are MORE so uninterested because of the following:

    1). Money will leave their household every month for YEARS to several babymamas (I’m just keeping it real…I don’t know too many black men who have children by ONE woman).

    2). Chances are the men are often times still messing around with their babymamas.

    3). They don’t want to deal with his kids, his babymamas or their drama.

    FACT: The ONLY black women I know who are interested/open to black men with children are those WHO ALREADY HAVE CHILDREN. Let that reality sink into your brain.

  • Jeanette

    @ “Uh huh” – it’s a screen name that an uneducated person would choose but for some reason you feel the need to hide by choosing a dumb ass name. Was that all you could come up with on the spot? Anyhow, silly women like you repulse me too. You sound like one of those raggedy ass women that KR speaks about that’s why you are so offended by my replies. Why don’t you and him get together…you deserve eachother!

  • Jeanette

    @ ASK_ME, EXACTLY! And I know women with kids that still don’t want to deal with black men and their kids/baby mama fiasco. KR is a damned fool who obviously doesn’t know what he is talking about.

  • Shaye

    @ Uh Oh, or whatever you call yourself…lonely ass b**** get a life!

  • Uh huh

    Lol is that all you have to say?

  • Jeanette

    @ Uh huh, goes to show that you don’t know a damn thing. I have more men checking for me that you can only dream of, madam. But not every black women is hard up like yourself, some of us actually enjoy our current state but you wouldn’t have the mentality to understand this.

  • Uh huh

    I thought you were signing out? Lol if I was supposedly one of the “raggedy” women KR is speaking about, wouldn’t I be responing to him instead? You are the one attacking him, not me. A woman being feminine and having a husband doesn’t mean she’s “raggedy”. It simply means she’s normal. You wouldn’t know anything about that though.

  • Jeanette

    @ mypointiz – my sentiments exactly! Not everyone has this mentality because they are too buy chasing the ring and reading articles on how to “get a man.”

  • Uh huh

    You don’t even understand what it is that you’re saying. Men making cat calls across the street to you doesn’t necessarily mean they are “checking for you”. And for a female that calls herself a “career woman” you certainly are very unprofessional.

  • Jeanette

    I meant too “busy”. Typing toooo fast!

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    “(I’m just keeping it real…I don’t know too many black men who have children by ONE woman)”

    maybe that is because upright brothers don’t want to have anything to do with stuff like YOU?

  • Jeanette

    I never said a woman who has a husband is “raggedy”. Then I would be talking about my own mother, fool. I was referring to the baby mamas he mentioned in his reply. And a woman doesn’t have to be married to be considered feminine or normal, but insecure women like you need a man to define who you are.

  • Ask_Me

    Aw…James…still bitter about me schooling you on the downside to government dependency? Oh well…

  • Ask_Me

    ^^^WTF? There is something seriously wrong with the black men that visit this site. Y’all delusional, whiny, angry mofos.

  • Green Giant

    Exactly.

  • Jeanette

    @ Ask_Me – isn’t that the truth though? You gotta wonder why all these angry birds are on here anyhow. These bitter black men have major mental issues and they are just too damn whiny. These men today are the NEW WOMEN. I have some Midol if ya’ll need it.

  • Jeanette

    @ trueletterson, it’s always bitter black men like you that always get offended when a woman speaks her mind. Typical.

  • Jeanette

    Cat calls? I don’t know any woman of my caliber who receives cat calls but I guess that’s what you’re used to in the ghettos where you live.

  • Jeanette

    Chelley5483

    This new breed of black men, blaming black women for ALL the problems that could possibly occur within the Milky Way, is no better than the baggy pant, wearing, gun toting thug. Now we just have crybaby internet thugs, slinging rhetoric THEY don’t even fully comprehend. Useless.

    DAAAMN! (in my Smokey voice) You hit him (and other men) hard with that…very well said!

  • Jeanette

    @ trueletterson,
    Where do you get off trying to give me advice living off your wife, on the internet searching for girlie articles like a damn punk.

  • http://Clutch SL

    Loved your post!

  • http://Clutch SL

    “These articles will always attract visitors cause no matter how many ways you slice them it’s human nature to want and desire companionship.”

    Absolutely!

  • http://Clutch SL

    @chelley – thank you. I tried hard to get that point across – but you did it beautifully.

  • http://Clutch SL

    “CHILDLESS black women are no more interested in black men with children than the other way around. ”

    Say so, sistah! That is the truth!

  • mr.vicious

    thk u…

    im glad u said it.

  • mr.vicious

    lol the sisters of deflection incorporated are in full force on this article. BM dont care, we are not asking bw to marry us in droves, BW problems become BM problems once they get married. The highest group of people applying for bankruptcy are bw, the high group of women with multiple kids are bw…the most….you fill in the blank.

    Now why would any man sign up for that mess, not to mention there are millions more bw than bm, what is there to whine about.

  • Stanley

    Perspective didn’t have anything of substance in his comments.

  • EST. 1986 (GO RAVENS)

    What makes men better relationship coaches, as you say?

  • LemonNLime

    Who are you to speak to the condition of black women. Sorry to disappoint but not all of us are what you see on TV. I am extremely fulfilled and happy with my life and state of being. I suggest you work on yours rather than trolling women’s blogs.

  • LemonNLime

    I just want to say THANK YOU to all the men who constantly and consistently come to Clutch in order to help us poor dumb women. Sure everything is our fault…or feminism’s fault…or the matriarchy’s fault…or something, but still you all manage to be the Good Samaritans and shower us daily with your insightful theories no matter how much they are unsolicited.

    NONE of the women here as asking for your shitty advice. Point blank. Period. Just because you have a penis, doesn’t make you any sort of wise guru, and quite frankly I’m sick of you shoving them into every conversation here.

    Next time you feel the urge to regurgitate that garbage, filth, and hatred you call “looking out for us” or “helping us” or “caring for us” do us all a favor: CHOKE ON IT.

  • Wanda

    The song goes: “Love and marriage…go together like a horse and carriage”…

    My experience (30+ years of marriage) has allowed my to understand that having a deep commitment to a partnership/marriage where roles are defined and clear, like any institution – like a a school, a business – is highly important.

    I’ve never understood the whole “I’m looking for a good man,” “I’m looking for a good woman” journey. Those pursuits are incredibly vague and don’t seem to mean very much.

    If you seek to be married, the search should be based on finding the right HUSBAND/FATHER or WIFE/MOTHER, and mutually defining what those roles really mean going forward.

    Now, we’ve mixed whole lotta love and romance into our “the stew” to keep it going strong, along with three wonderful children and a darling of a grandchild, but it helps to have a defined framework in place to hold it all together.

  • JaeBee

    Now what was it the writer of this piece said about “concern-trolling”…

  • Pingback: Love Contemplation No. 5 On Marriage « Contemplating love

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Wanda

    What a wonderful post. Thanks to you @Trueletterson and every other married person who has posted to atest to the beauty of marriage.

    My husband and I are 15yrs strong. While we’d worked together for about 18mos, we’d only dated 6weeks before we got married.

    I dated alot…kissed my fair share of frogs, but I’d be lying if I said I knew he was THE ONE. I came to realize there is no such thing as the elusive THE ONE. That is a figment of the single-mind. My husband was not the first man I’d loved, but we both had similar accomplishments and goals.

    I believe in love and marriage and roles within marriage.

    We are lucky we live in a country where we get to choose how we want to live. We are fortunate that we are neither forced to marry or forced to be relegated to a lifetime of singleness. The choice is ours.

  • mr.vicious

    Clutch is definitely not interested in dialogue<—–true, must satisfy the core audience…

    I see the responses to Perspective, but where did his comments go…..we all know bm "comments" are not wanted on this site by the majority of the crew, but its weird that comments that respond stay…

  • mr.vicious

    You know we have to be honest with ourselves regarding what we are able to handle and what we are ready for. When it comes to dialog regarding the Black Man and Woman, you have to ask yourself are you REALLY ready for the tough questions. Are you REALLY ready and able to handle the truth of what the Brothers will say when they express themselves, about THEIR pain, THEIR reality, THEIR experiences, THEIR frustrations…..can you listen without being emotional? Can you listen without your reserved rebuttal cocked and loaded and ready to shoot?

  • isolde3

    “Are you REALLY ready and able to handle the truth of what the Brothers will say when they express themselves, about THEIR pain, THEIR reality, THEIR experiences, THEIR frustrations…..can you listen without being emotional? Can you listen without your reserved rebuttal cocked and loaded and ready to shoot?”

    __________________________

    @vicious

    You’ve got to be kidding me. In case you haven’t noticed, the likes of Perspective and KR repeat the same shit on every thread involving black women, relationships, single mothers, etc., and you want to talk about WOMEN having “rebuttals cocked and loaded and ready to shoot?” Every time Clutch reports on a story about a black man shooting, raping, killing someone, here ya’ll come, with redundant responses in tow looking for a black woman to blame. The one time Clutch actually moderates a discussion and scrubs comments from a thread, your pressed @sses wanna (you, “Honest”)catch feelings. Aw poor babies. Hold on a second while I go get your pacifier.

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/34d23e5938056cde1ed2756fed287af2/tumblr_mhjm1alVCZ1rit63mo1_1280.jpg

    . . . bunch a trigger happy morons, armed with toy guns on a woman’s web-site, LOL. The article and first page of comments weren’t even disrespecting black men, but apparently that didn’t stop Mo (Perspective) and Larry (KR) from foaming at the mouth.

    I’m almost sorry that Mo’s comments were scrubbed before I got a chance to read them. It would’ve made Tallulah Belle’s take-down that much more priceless. Tallulah Belle fact checked that ass and dragged it for filth like the thirsty stooge Mo is.

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

  • KR

    @Tammi

    “I would prefer that a women marry (if she wants to marry) the right partner and build a successful committed relationship in middle age than marry the wrong man and raise children in an unhealthy, unstable union in her 20s.”
    Herein lies the problem. Your logic is flawed. There IS NO large group of men looking to marry middle age black women (most w/kids) for a variety of reasons; age, weight, appearance, kids, set in their ways, financial and personal baggage, etc…. Men just don’t respond to older women the same as they do to younger women. It’s just a fact of life. So the choice is clear. These young black girls who want to be married need to put in maximum effort while they’re young, in their prime and have the most options. The alternative any way you look at it for them almost always are less desirable. ie Baby Mama and single never married. Do you really believe baby mamas and all these single never married women black women are happier in their family and home lifethan their married great/grand mothers AS A GROUP?

  • KR

    Jeanette say she’s a highly educated professional woman. lol She reminds me more of a combination of Bon Qui Qui and Rasputia.

  • Stanley

    Where do you get the Idea of a world without women from? How could anyone even imagine such a thing? We’re talking about our INDIVIDUAL NEEDS here. This means what ONE human being cannot survive without, like water and food.

    I don’t wanna live life without a woman, just like you. I love women, just like you. however unlike you, I have spent long and happy years of my life without any woman in it, and I will find ways to enjoy my life if at any point the woman of my desired doesn’t want me no more (I can either find another one or stay happily single forever).

  • KR

    @Tammi
    “I would prefer that a women marry (if she wants to marry) the right partner and build a successful committed relationship in middle age than marry the wrong man and raise children in an unhealthy, unstable union in her 20s.”

    Can you tell me why you all insist on fighting and promoting something that has never worked?

    Herein lies the problem, Tammi. It’s flawed logic. There IS NO large group of men looking to marry middle age black women (most w/kids) for a variety of reasons; age, weight, appearance, kids, set in their ways, financial instability, personal baggage, etc…. Men just don’t respond to older women the same as they do to younger women. It’s just a fact of life. So the choice is clear. Young black girls who want to be married need to put in maximum effort while they’re young to find a compatible man WHO WANTS TO MARRY THEM while they’re in their prime and have the most options. The alternative (baby mamma & single never married) for the overwhelming majority of black women in middle age any way you look at it is almost always are less desirable. Tammi, do you really believe these black baby mamas and single never married black women AS A GROUP are happier with their family/home life than their married grand/great grand mothers?

  • KR

    @Tammi

    “I would prefer that a women marry (if she wants to marry) the right partner and build a successful committed relationship in middle age than marry the wrong man and raise children in an unhealthy, unstable union in her 20s.”
    Can you tell me why you all insist on fighting and promoting something that has never worked?
    Herein lies the problem, Tammi. It’s flawed logic. There IS NO large group of men looking to marry middle age black women (most w/kids) for a variety of reasons; age, weight, appearance, kids, set in their ways, financial instability, personal baggage, etc…. Men just don’t respond to older women the same as they do to younger women. It’s just a fact of life. So the choice is clear. Young black girls who want to be married need to put in maximum effort while they’re young to find a compatible man WHO WANTS TO MARRY THEM while they’re in their prime and have the most options. The alternative (baby mamma & single never married) for the overwhelming majority of middle age black women any way you look at it is almost always are less desirable.

    Tammi, do you really believe these black baby mamas and single never married black women AS A GROUP are happier with their family/home life than their married grand/great grand mothers?

  • Stanley

    When has it been about *who has the upper hand*?

  • ASK_ME

    Ain’t nobody interested in convincing a group of undesirable men why they should consider marriage.

    Being single is likely more appealing to these ladies than procreating and marrying the black men that frequent this site.

    Get a freaking clue!

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    you folk DO realize that black men and black women are NOT enemies?
    we are all in this thing TOGETHER. the sooner we LEARN that the better.

  • LemonNLime

    You know what? Considering the MASSIVE amounts of issues that black men are dealing with, I suggest you all take some of your own advice rather than dishing it out to an unsolicited audience. My God.

  • HoneyQ

    You are wrong. My enemies are those that seek to cause me harm or destruction. Black, white, yellow. Male or female.From the looks the of some of the males that comment on this site, several of these black males are indeed my enemies. You can sing this kumbaya crap a much as you want but I’m not drinking the kool-aid.

    I am so sincerely thankful that the men and women in my family aren’t like half of the yahoos on this site. Honestly, I never even knew such craziness existed until I started frequenting this site and looked on YT. But once again, I believe these are not issues in families like mine: 2 parents, educated, upper/middle class (both in terms of economics, values, and manner), fiscally conservative going back for several generations.

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    the system of white supremacy IS the enemy of us all.

  • LemonNLime

    Really? Because it isn’t the “system of white supremacy” that is constantly coming to Clutch and bitching about “the matriarchy” or dispensing “advice”

  • http://gravatar.com/jamesfrmphilly jamesfrmphilly

    we make choices whether or not to hate and who to hate.
    those choices define us.

  • Job

    @SL
    You’re one of my favorite commenters. What you say is exactly what my parents have told me. They have been married 30+ years. I don’t understand this gender war. I come to this site just so I can understand women better. But some people both male and female have some serious anger problems. People need to listen and learn to work together.

  • Kam

    No, because we have been talking about OUR PAIN and you have yet to listen.

  • EST. 1986 (GO RAVENS)

    “Because most women who are relationship coaches bring their baggage to the craft, instead of being as objective as possible.”

    And men don’t?

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Job

    I am at a serious lose to understand too. I don’t understand how either can be so consumed with such anger and hostility, resentment and bitterness. It is a very sad reflection on the very thing we all want to see improved – the state of the AA community and relationships between BM and BW. There is simply too much hurt and sadness. What lies ahead for us???? More devastation? More disenfranchisement?

    I’m scared to be honest. Very scared honestly if what is represented here is an accurate depiction of the state of communication between the sexes in our community.

    I’m like – whoa nelly over some of the responses.

    I’ll be honest – no one’s opinion offends me. Their opinions are theirs and they have a right to them. Nobody’s words hurt me – I don’t give anyone that much power.

    I do appreciate the male participation.

    I love men and I love BM in particular. I see strength and smartness and sensitivity in alot of what they say – even if they dont always temper what they say.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Job

    I hope more will come to dialogue and stop insulting and attacking each other. First, cause it gets us nowhere and Second, it’s boring!!!

    I like what @Trueletterson said about wanting a woman in his life. I feel the exact same way about having a man in my life. Could I be happy single? Yes. But I’m far more fulfilled when I have a partner to share this journey of life with.

    I have lots of GFs but none of them can do for me what a man does. I like hanging with GFs, but at the end of the day I want to go home to my man. I need both in my life! A man cannot replace a good GF and a GF cannot replace my man :-).

    Anyway, I hope we can find ourselves around the discord!

  • Beks

    go away troll, leave us dummies be.

  • ASK_ME

    @SL

    A few post back you said you married outside the black race. You even gave a reason why you did so. I suggest you clarify your comments on marriage as it relates to your interracial marriage…not black marriage.

    I, too married outside my race yet I would NEVER compare my marriage to black marriage/relationships, what it could be, why it’s not happening, and what needs to happen to make it happen. Why? Because I don’t have a dog in this fight.

    The issues and complexities of BW/BM relationships are like no other group.

    Furthermore, sit back and watch as the”men” here put your comments in context as it relates to your husband, a man that does not look like them.

  • http://Www.survivingdating.com Deborrah

    Read the article The Cons of Marriage that assures black women that marriage might not be the best move for you anyway. It’s a reality check. Sometimes it’s better to get take out. Lol

  • KR

    @Deborah

    Can you tell me why you all insist on fighting and promoting something that has never worked? There is not one black community in this country with a high illegitmacy rate that is functional, productive, educating their kids (50% dropout) without high crime, poverty and dysfunction.

    Almost every black community in this country was functional and productive pre 1960′s. In spite of Jim Crow, segregation, discrimination and abject poverty. This is because they had generations of strong functional families (generations of married fathers) and the overwhelming majority of black woman were married and almost every black kid had a father in the home. Why do you all insist of trying to reinvent the wheel? Black folks have been SUCCESSFULLY marrying YOUNG since the beginning of civilization. Now all of a sudden it’s bad? lol

    It’s been 50 years and this “New Familial Structure”, this “New Normal” that your White Liberal Gods are pushing and Black Feminist are parroting “ain’t” working and has never worked in the black community. As a matter of fact, it’s been a complete disaster for black women, black children, the black family and the black community.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Ask_Me – thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to clarify. You’ve followed my posts? Do you remember the one where I said that “I look more Hispanic than they do”? I married inter-culturally – my husband is Pan-African. He is Panamanian, but he is of African descent and considers himself a black man.
    My sister married a Cuban of African descent. Many of my girl cousins have married Hispanic men and most consider themselves black because of their African ancestry.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Ask_Me

    I’m not one to make a big deal of the color of someone’s skin since I come from mixed ancestry. I find beauty across the human race and “fine” men in all the races. I’ve dated white men, African men, Carribbean men, East Indian, Hispanic men and yes my AA brothers.
    The point of my post was to encourage sistas to not limit themselves to just AA men and I stand by that post. I don’t think anyone should limit themselves when it comes to love, because sometimes it comes in a way and in a package that is unexpected.

    So BM who are only looking for a “light skin, rail-thin” honey is just as limited as the sista who only wants an AA brotha.

    However, that said there is nothing wrong with loving someone who looks like you.

    And I will be forthcoming and say that even after 15yrs – I still have a natural attraction for AA BM. I have an ease with the BM who are my friends that I wouldn’t trade.
    They are real men and surprising maybe to many women, when they let you into their heart they are as real as real can be…

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Ask_Me

    They are caring, funny, smart, sometimes, insecure and really wanting to understand but wanting more to be understood – to have their manhood understood by BW cause truly – i have BM friends who went white but have told me that is not what they want. They want Black Women!!!!

    Which is why all the hate on this forum is soooo crazy to me!!!!

    And yes!!! I have BM friends. – not gay – just straight up dudes (I do not try to be one of their boys) I have no Thuggish BM friends.

  • KR

    @Deborah

    Can you tell me why you all insist on fighting and promoting something that has never worked? There is not one black community in this country with a high illegitmacy rate that is functional, productive, educating their kids (50% dropout) without high crime, poverty and dysfunction.

    Almost every black community in this country was functional and productive pre 1960′s. In spite of Jim Crow, segregation, discrimination and abject poverty. This is because they had generations of strong functional families (generations of married fathers) and the overwhelming majority of black woman were married and almost every black kid had a father in the home. Why do you all insist of trying to reinvent the wheel? Black folks have been SUCCESSFULLY marrying YOUNG since the beginning of civilization. Now all of a sudden it’s bad? lol

    It’s been 50 years and this “New Familial Structure”, this “New Normal” that your White Liberal Gods are pushing and Black Feminist are parroting “ain’t” working and has never worked in the black community. As a matter of fact, it’s been a complete disaster for black women, black children, the black family and the black community.

  • http://gravatar.com/trueletterson trueletterson

    Very good points and wise counseling however on this site they will rebuke wise counseling and give good thought provoking comments like this many thumbs downs and that alone show the state of mind they are in!

  • PBR

    Just take a look at these comments and you’ll clearly see why 49% of black men and 45% of black women of today never marry. We don’t even like each other. Yes I said it

    A LOT OF BLACK PEOPLE DON’T LIKE EACH OTHER.

    I remember there was an article that came out asking black women if they even like black men. Most just could not say yes, and if you read the vitriol and disrespect that black women are addressed with by so-called “brothers” the ones who are so-called supposed to “lead” it’s not hard to see why. Black women then bite back reactively.

    How can you ever get in the proper mindset to get MARRIED when deep down you don’t even LIKE your counterparts?

  • Kema

    Is being single and 30+ so horrible? If a woman has all the attributes you mention I’m sure she’ll be OK.

  • lol

    interesting that you say this , does it refer to you as well since you told us you are married to a white woman?

  • livedefy

    I believe that this article is the best rebuttal against the writings attempting to teach black woman how to get a man. Other articles I have read seeped with bitterness and anger, but the argument here is that we don’t need to “fix ourselves”, but rather we need to learn ourselves, what we like and dislike. We need to be whole and complete before we can have any type of successful lasting relationship. Some blogs and books teach us that we need to change this and be that, when in actuality we need to be ourselves, let go of past hurt, and learn to communicate clearly and effectively our wants, needs, and more importantly our values. Instead of focusing on trying to get a man to want us, we can focus on compatibility.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Alldawg

    “I wonder if there will come a day when more women will take more accountability for their actions, instead of this defensive, self-righteous attitude some bw have. I wonder if there will come a day, when Black Men can state the type of Woman they want, how they would want her to act, how they want to be treated, how they want to be loved and needed,”

    Your post gave me a chuckle. I will not try to rebutt anything you’ve said…

    What I will say is there is some truth on both sides of the posts on this article

    But where is the “middle ground”???

    I feel like I’m at a boxing match – each gender in their own corner, the article is the bell, then we come out swinging intent on beating the hell out of each other – or at least beating each other into submission so we can claim victory – except there are no winners ever. Only the misunderstood, angry parties that once beaten up retreat to their own corner to be bandaged up until the next bell/article.

    How we say things – how we talk to each other determines whether or not we can be heard…

  • http://www.facebook.com/melle.be.33 Melle Be

    This was so sweet and spot on! Thanks so much!

  • http://gravatar.com/rena215 rena0215

    Seriously, what is with all of the anger (on both sides)? All the article said was that women and men should be themselves, know themselves and what they want, and choose a partner carefully. When you try to be someone you’re not to attract someone, you end up attracting people who’s views are not compatible with your own.

    IDK, seems like basic common sense to me.

  • Kitty

    @alldawg – You mean all the rap videos and ranting you Black Boys do “still” don’t “state the type of Woman they want, how they would want her to act, how they want to be treated, how they want to be loved and needed” like EVERYDAY on any radio station and video channel??? Women have HEARD you and SEEN you DEBASE yourself by defining your “manhood” by the money and cars and hos you can get. And as thinking women we thought: nah, we’ll pass, there is better for us out there! And there is, so guess what? We heard you, we just don’t give a damn black boy(“man” is not a word to describe your type)! We don’t have to. You’re just mad because we aspire to be more than your “ho” (Gasp, how DARE we!). Be a good little black boy and focus on what you can, that is desperately dipping your little cock in everything that moves to prove you’re “a man” dancing for the white man in your rap videos throwing fake bills around. Again, Black women heard you and your boring repetitive diatribes here and just about everywhere. We don’t care, we’re moving on. We’re BETTER THAN THAT. Keep dancing nigga boy, maybe the white man will throw you a bone and let you marry one of his whores cuz fact is black boy; You just ain’t good enough for a black woman. Now scoot.

  • kami

    :O :O :O

    How dare you fill clutch with your well thought out responses brimming with common sense Stanley!!!!

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Kitty – I truly understand your point. The way some BM allow BW to be portrayed is disrespecful – it is revolting and it is repugnant!!! What is even worse though are the misguided, self-loathing women who voluntarily consent to be used and abused by men and see nothing wrong with being demeaned and portrayed as ho’s.

    That is the point: neither side is blameless!!! Each side has played a hand in the demise of relationship between BM and BW.

    I also understand that not all BM – not even most of them -prescribe to this misogynistic way of thinking just as most BW are not ho’s and would never subjugate themselves to this type of mis-treatment.

  • http://gravatar.com/heavenleiblu heavenleiblu

    Ms Tallulah Belle done closed the library!

  • mr.vicious

    kitty, while you are so busy making your “lists” to see if a man is qualified for you, have you ever considered if you have qualified yourself for HIM? Do you know how to feed him? By feeding him I mean do you know what foods will keep him alive and healthy? Do you know to cook without the assistance of Betty Crocker or Sara Lee? Do you know how to feed his mind and replenish his spirit? Do you know how to make a home His Heaven?

    Do you know how to prepare yourself mentally, spiritually, emotionally and physically to receive him so that you can adequately reproduce him? Do you know how to comfort him? Do you know how to be his secretary, his assistant, his HELP MEET, his number one fan, his encouragement, his RIGHTEOUS Motivator, his support System? Do you know how speak in a LOVING tone and keep your tongue in the holster instead of using it to attack him? Do you know how important it is for him to have PEACE OF MIND and do you know how to give him that peace that he needs?

    See, we Brothers have a list too, and while you are busy crossing men off your list, you might be crossed off someone’s else list yourself. We are Heaven for each other, so that means we must qualify ourselves for ONE ANOTHER. You can be the type of Woman that a Man will move mountains just to get TO you, or the type of woman that a man moves mountains to get away FROM you.

  • WOW

    @SL

    “The way some BM allow BW to be portrayed is disrespecful…”

    Hold on. The way some black men “allow” black women to be protrayed? Are you serious? Who are the ones shaking their azzes in these videos with little to nothing on??? Who’s forcing these females to do such a thing? It certainly isn’t black men. Many of these black women degrading themselves on t.v. are WILLING doing so! No one is forcing them to. How about you tell your “sistahs” to stop allowing themselves to be protrayed in such light and to put on some clothes? How about you start taking some responsibilities for your own actions and stop playing the blame game.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Wow – yep – I meant “allow”, cause those video ho’s are not the ones writing those songs, they are not the ones producing that sh!t. It WAS conceived by misguided little boys like Luda and JZ. All of a sudden with the birth of his own daughter JZ is singing a different tune but not long ago he was disrespecting someone elses daughter. Some guys are PREDATORS!! Seeking to pervert those who are not smart enough to know better.

    Yes ALLOW !!!

    There was a time when guys even if they saw a misguided female would care enough to tell her to go home – they wouldn’t take advantage of her stupidity – they didnt need to in order to prove they were men.

    So your comment reveals just how misguided, twisted and messed up your own mind is. Did your dad ever teach you to respect a woman? Back in the day, fathers schooled little boys and taught them not to take advantage of a girl just because they could. Guys of your generation have no fathers who can teach them the finer points of being a man – so if it moves you fuck it. Sad.

    And next time – dont go off half cocked – read the whole post and try to get outside your own head. I clearly said both BM and BW are responsible – I did not absolve either of their responsibility!

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Wow

    And by the way I am teaching the one person I’ve been given authority and responsibility to teach: my daughter. She will not become some misguided man’s bitch or ho.

    And you notice – I didn’t just say a BM’s bitch or ho – cause the truth be told there are predators in all races!

  • http://gravatar.com/ceecollegegal CeeCee

    Good informative article. I like the fact that no particular gender is blamed.

  • Anisa

    Pre 60s it was legal to beat and rape your wife. There are lots of reasons people aren’t in relationships, not all of them idiological.

  • http://tontonmichel.tumblr.com/ Tonton Michel

    No man we don’t, we have trained to think that way from birth.

  • Job

    @SL

    Times have sadly changed. Many men feel no responsibility towards women anymore. Women fought for the right to not be told what to do or what to wear or how many different men to have sex with. So women cannot be mad if they are objectified by unscrupulous men. Those are the consequences of their decisions. Many women wanted gender roles to die, so therefore many men feel they do not need to go out of their way to protect random women. And this applies to women of all races from the “Girls Gone Wild” to “Video Ho’s.”

  • WOW

    @SL

    So pretty much you are saying women are too dumb to know any better, right? You are pretty much insinuating that women cannot think on their own, hence the reason why they need DIRECTION from men so that they won’t be led astray (according to your example). Those video Hos are full, functioning adults. I thought black women didn’t need a man to guide them and tell them what to do. Some of you females are so hypocritical with your comments and don’t even know it. This is why it is difficult to have basic conversations with many of you. Please learn to THINK before you type sweetheart lol. Maybe you need a man to teach you on how to do that…

  • WOW

    @SL

    So pretty much you are saying women are too dumb to know any better, right? You are pretty much insinuating that women cannot think on their own, hence the reason why they need DIRECTION from men so that they won’t be led astray (according to your example). Those video Hos are full, functioning adults. I thought black women didn’t need a man to guide them and tell them what to do. Some of you females are so hypocritical with your comments and don’t even know it. This is why it is difficult to have basic conversations with many of you. Please learn to THINK before you type sweetheart lol. Maybe you need a man to teach you on how to do that…

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Wow

    Maybe you should take your own medicine. Clearly you are not a man I would be able to have an intelligent exchange with (see @Job).

    I’ll leave you with this: those video ho’s have video pimps. Take a look in the mirror.

  • http://trueletterson.wordpress.com trueletterson

    Tonton Michel We men wouldn’t be here if it was not for a women, a women was our first teacher and you need to go and come back again!

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Job

    “Women fought for the right to not be told what to do or what to wear or how many different men to have sex with. So women cannot be mad if they are objectified by unscrupulous men. Those are the consequences of their decisions. Many women wanted gender roles to die, so therefore many men feel they do not need to go out of their way to protect random women”

    Here’s what I do not get? Why do men think they should have the right to “control” a woman? So, a woman is worthy of your respect only if you can tell her how to self-determinate? @Job as a traditional archaic-minded woman, that makes no sense to me. Why not respect her because she is a human being and it is the RIGHT thing to do???

    When you talk in this way, this is what make women recoil.

    I am a traditionalist, but neither sex should be subjugated under the foot of the other.

    There is something inherently dishonorable and evil about a tone that says, “if you want the right to be heard, if you want the right to be a partner, you want the right to fulfill your potential”, yhen I will withdraw my love, my support and my covering from you. That is not

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Job – using my iPhone and am limited in what I can type, but to pickup

    ….that is not right brotha. It is not coming from a Godly place.

    Once, I saw this little black boy being man handle by the white dude who lived across the street from me. Truth be told – little dude was already in the thug road – he’d gone into the white’s dude’s yard and had taken that guy’s son’s bike. White dude snatched his little black ass straight off the ground. I was about to get in my car but when I saw that I ran over to see what I could do for this BB – white dude was already calling the po-po. I asked him to release that kid to me and not call. I took that child by the shoulder and brought him to my place. I talked to him like he was worthy, asked him why he was stealing, he said he didnt have a bike he just wanted a bike to play with….I walked him home – next day I bought him a bike.
    That little dude, did not become a thug. I gave him a job. He mowed my lawn every week until he earned the money to pay me for the bike.

  • http://Clutch SL

    @Job

    I did not know that kid – he was nobody to me. I could’ve looked at him and said he looks like a thug – looks like he was stealing that bike – lock him up! I could have judged him in like manner as to what you stated in your post.

    I didn’t have to protect him cause he certainly didnt meet my standards….

    BUT I DID..

    A woman has the God-given right to self-determine. Every human being has the right to self-determine. What the determine to be is between them and God. Nobody has a God-given right to subjugate another human being.

    Being equal with a woman does not mean being less of a man if that measure is based upon the ability to subjugate a woman so that she only has value and worth if you prescribe it to her.

    No.

    When a man derives his meaning of what it means to be a man based on his ability to control a woman – then the world is out of balance.

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