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Here’s what the world doesn’t need, another relationship book. I blame Steve Harvey for all of this mess. Now every man thinks he’s capable of dishing out this so-called advice.

Next up to bat at the “relationship expert” plate is twice divorced, Terius “The Dream” Nash.

In a recent interview with Sister2Sister, The Dream stated he was in the process of writing a relationship book about “getting the milk without the cow”.  I’m not sure why this needs to be stated in a book, it’s been going on for centuries.

Here’s an excerpt from the interview with Jamie Foster Brown:

Jamie: Would you get married again?

The-Dream: Of course! I like the idea of it. I have this book I’m writing about how, as blessed as I am, how I could have a girlfriend; I could have kids with her, chill out and that’s my girl. We woo-woo-woo, whatever it is, and get all of the same things that you get when you’re married to someone. It probably didn’t work years go, but why get married? What do they say? “Get the milk without the cow.”

Jamie: Right
The-Dream: But that word “marriage” changes who you are. Immediately you’re not that forgiving and it’s just like, “We fought all the time when we were boyfriend and girlfriend and we never broke up.” You have a good fight when you’re married and it’s like, “I’m out of here. Peace!” It’s like it gets more fragile when it’s supposed to be stronger.

I guess not buying the cow saves on alimony and music royalties, because we all remember how that went with Christina Milian.

  • The Comment

    Another instance of the ignorant rising to the top.

    I bet you one dollah that if I were to get inside his pea brain I would find a scared little boy sucking his thumb in the corner crying for attention. With complete horror we would see his uncle ye’ll to him..”boy get yo snotty nappy headed watermelon head over her and bring me my 40.” All the dream wants to do is play with his barbie doll but all his cousins just keep making fun of him. He wonders….”how can u not like Ken? He soo much cooler than G-I Joe!”

  • lol

    I can’t tell you how much I laughed at this!

  • lol

    what more is to be expected from black men?

  • http://gravatar.com/rena215 rena215

    Sadly, I’ve met a lot of men (and some women)who feel this way – Why get married when you can live together, have kids and play house without having to make the committment? As much as I hate to admit this, this belief is more prevalent in the Black community.

    Meanwhile, many people of other races are getting married (not everyone, but definitely at higher numbers) and reaping advantages that come with marriage (more stable family structure for children, significant tax/health benefits, etc.).

  • Melanie

    Is he for real? I hope his next intended cow reads this before she decides to woo woo woo with him.

  • wfm

    The dream wants the bull, not the cow.

  • The Comment

    Yes Yes and Yes!

    Now look folks. Marriage is harder than you want to know. You may not stay married 4ever. But is is better than shacking up. At least get the courts grant you $$$ for spousal/child support. Hard to do when you are just cohabitating (if that is a word.)

    Makes a difference in the way a child views his parents. I’d feel a lot better knowing I was made in a committed relationship than, “he told me I was pretty then we dropped acid. Next thing I know, BAM…here you are.”

  • lol

    I can understand when a man says this because he has a lot to benefit from this situation but when I hear a woman (esp minority) I cringe. unless a woman has :

    1) a good support system

    2)access to really good affordable child-care

    3)a great career (or connections to another one should she lose the one she currently has)

    or 4) does not want kids and has made sure she will not get pregnant while with this man.

    I really question a woman’s logic when she makes this decision. not a good move.

  • http://urbanexpressive.wordpress.com urbanexpressive

    And there will be people to buy this crap.

    Seems as if hair products & relationship advice is what people will default to when they need to make a quick buck off of Black women. Gladly, the majority of us aren’t as gullible as they think.

  • BeBoogie

    well this isnt an old expression for nothing- he is now an official member of the club many men belong to

  • Wow

    That is what he is really saying!

    . Just keep a tally of all these ignorant rants made by black men against women and you will see that the more we support gays coming out the closet the better off we will all be. We won’t have to hear this anti-women stuff anymore.

  • http://melodygordon.wordpress.com Melody

    Just your daily reminder that you should never in a million years be with a guy that compares you to a farm animal.

    As for this ‘advice book,’ I think it’s safe to say no woman should take relationship advice from these divorced/separated/cheating/non-marrying men out here. How can you ‘advise’ my love life when yours is a mess?

  • Marisa

    Who the HELL is going to take anything thing Terius Nash has to say when it comes to relationship advice, other than look at what he has done and do the opposite. This from a guy who is a complete and other piece of crap as a husband to every chick he marries, and who when cheating on last wife, was too stupid, thoughtless and reckless to at least keep his jumpoff activities off the radar. No Teddy Grahams is splashing around at the beach with some tacky broad, gets caught and tries to front as if she’s “just a friend”. When nobody believes that bullsh%t decides to inform the world that no I’m not really cheating when I served my wife divorce papers, while the baby is practically crowing in her womb at the hospital.

    All this is about is a dude who screws up legal commitments such as marriage and has had to pay the financial repercussions that come with that. The Dream has bought more than one cow but treats them like dirt, so he’s counseling dudes on treating women like dirt without paying a legal cost that comes with it. This get the milk free mentality is just one aspect of why many sistas aren’t wives that is never covered, when talking of why most are single. As if black women can just marry themselves and the attitudes and actions of black men aren’t even discussed. Problem is too many black women have settled for the free milk crap and are not holding themselves or the men they seek to any sort of standards.

  • E.M.S.

    My comment’s probably about to get down voted lol, but at least hear me out:

    I think he’s using the milk/cow analogy in the wrong context and/or has a different interpretation of it. Typically that means having all the perks of a relationship without actually being committed to someone. As boyfriend/girlfriend you can committed just as with marriage if you so choose.

    I’m someone who believes in the possibility of a committed relationship without specifically being married: it’s nice but not necessary if you can function like a married couple. I’m not interested in the title of marriage or the social confirmation it brings, I’m interested in a long term committed union between myself and my partner. If we can have that without marriage and that works for us, why is that a big deal to everybody else? You can’t determine the “right” way to go about a relationship for someone else.

    I’m not saying this is advice that should be given on a wide scale via writing a book, but for some people it works.

    Consider if both partners look at it the same way, then is it a problem?

  • Missi

    This dude really lives up to his name:The Nightmare. Hope no one disrespects his daughter Violet with this logic!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/beejcee beejcee

    “I blame Steve Harvey for all of this mess. ”

    Think Like A Man was a really funny-cute movie. When that manuscript left Steve Harvey’s “desk” it should have gone straight to film, for a funny cute a$$ movie. Just like Melody said “How can you ‘advise’ my love life when yours is a mess?

  • Melanie

    It’s funny how some men don’t value marriage until they’re old and decrepit and need a helpmate to care for them. I noticed that for some men that’s the point when they gave up their cheating ways for good and started publicly praising their longsuffering wives.

  • Wow

    LMAO!!!!!! longsuffering wives….

    well maybe if they are old and decrepit….it will be short suffering.

  • Asampete

    But why is anyone surprised? Why is this even news? When I first heard about his relationship with Christina Millian I thought nothing of it. Then I read an interview with him in essence or ebony in which he talked about being a new father and husband. This fool actually said that he had no intention of changing a diaper or waking up at midnight because that’s what nannies and Christina are for.*major side eye* Not even a month later, those ratchet pictures of he and his assistant surfaced. This is a man who was out frolicking on the beach w/his assistant when his wife had just given birth and was still nursing. Ugh. I’m not here for him or any rubbish that comes out of his mouth.

  • donnadara

    So he’s blaming women for his “shacking up” behavior? I’m so tired of these lame relationship books by non-psychologists. It’s not a woman’s job to force or manipulate a man into doing the right thing. Somehow I believe that if the “cow” wasn’t giving up any “milk”, he’d move on to the next one. And if he believes that marriages are more fragile than living together situations, then why he’s saying that people should get married? Idiot.

  • E.M.S.

    Because not everyone wants to be married, and that is their right. Why should their choice be looked down upon just because their perspective is different from your own? And that’s a serious question.

    I’m a young lady who is iffy about marriage, and I don’t think it’s fair someone else turns their nose up at me for saying that. I am entitled to my opinions of it just as you are.

  • Rodney

    Dream is my negro! Thank you. Maybe these broads out here will close their legs now.

  • cjl

    Is he serious?! Who in the hell would buy a relationship written by The Dream? This fool can barely write songs. I think he should find a better way to express himself, instead of writing b.s. books about something he obviously knows nothing about!

  • http://gravatar.com/janschild janschild

    Not surprised @ this. What self-respecting woman who wants to settle down would even date this imbecile?

  • Azure

    Yes..And for those who do keep their legs closed, it would save them the trouble from running into fools like you.

  • Blue

    Say what you want about Steve Harvey & his relationship advice. But how many women do you know that are in a relationship with a guy like The Dream? The Dream openly revealed what he feels about relationships & marriage. Any woman with any self worth & good sense will run away from him. There are guys out there who think like him but yet women have been with these guys for years expecting to change his mind. Here they are living together for years, have kids together & are waiting for the guy to put a ring on it? You gave him the marriage life style without a ring. Some women are cool with living together, having kids & never getting married. But for those who don’t want that, take the time out to know the guy & state what you both want out of the relationship.

  • shorty da sweetie

    The lack of morals in black women have made it easy for men to get wife benefits like children and longterm companionship without commitment.

    So, what he is saying happens to be the norm in the black community.

  • http://www.lillian-mae.com Lillian Mae

    9/10, what he says is true for him simply because he’s the Dream and making money. A lot of women lower their standards if men are well off.

  • http://gravatar.com/rena215 rena215

    @E.M.S. — My replonse probably won’t show up under your comment, so I pasted it below.

    “Because not everyone wants to be married, and that is their right. Why should their choice be looked down upon just because their perspective is different from your own? And that’s a serious question.

    I’m a young lady who is iffy about marriage, and I don’t think it’s fair someone else turns their nose up at me for saying that. I am entitled to my opinions of it just as you are.”

    Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My opinion is that, especially if you’re going to have children, it simply does not make sense to shack up with someone instead of marrying them.

    I believe marriage is just as much an economic decision as it is a romantic one. Marriage is important for building wealth – two people working together are better off than each person individually, it’s easier to pass off wealth when you’re married should something happen to you (who knows what will happen if something happens to youand you are merely cohabitating), and for purposes of taxes, health insurance benefits, etc. it’s more beneficial to get married. It’s sad that every other race has realized this, and we completely miss out on the fact that marriage is extremely beneficial and better overall for the Black family and community.

    I see some people’s point that it is possible to be committed to each other without the marriage, but why someone would forego all of these benefits, with (theoretically)the same level of committment is beyond me. I have yet to hear one good reason for those who choose to forego marriage – i.e., because you’re not sure you want to be with that person forever, and, if that is the case, you DEFINTELY shouldn’t be having children with that person.

    In case I’ve missed anything, I would love to hear more of your thoughts on why you are iffy about marriage and/or any arguments you have against marriage. Maybe there is something I’m not considering.

  • http://gravatar.com/rena215 rena215

    Ooops, I meant to say, *I’ve only heard one good reason for foregoing marriage – i.e., because you’re not sure you want to be with that person forever…”

  • JS

    The thing is if you know you are going to be together a long time why not just get married? It’s smarter to for tax reasons alone as well as other legal issues and if any property or income is the issue then just get a prenuptial. I think the whole argument of not wanting the “title or social confirmation” is just a cop out for someone who does not want to truly commit. It is a person who due to their own insecurities doesn’t want to be theoretically “chained down.” When in reality the “pressures” of the social implications of marriage is only really being applied by the person themselves. You can’t let other people define what your marriage means, they aren’t the ones taking vows. There are social implications that go along with everything and that cannot be the only reason you do or don’t do something, that is weak. The dynamic of your relationship if you are in it for the long term shouldn’t change with marriage.

    At the end of the day though people will do what they will do. Although I will say from my understanding of the milk and cow metaphor it has always had the message of selling yourself short. Enjoying the perks of the duality of something without degrading yourself would be the “Having your cake and eating it too.”

  • Cocochanel31

    OMG at ” and then we dropped acid!” You are on a roll..I needed these laughs…please keep them coming

  • L

    I personally don’t care what this man does in his personal life. All i ask of Tarius is to please keep that book idea in his head.

    I’ve shacked up (for financial savings) and will never ever EVER do it again. Sometimes you have to live and you will learn.

  • L

    And Does the Dream not realize: The highest consumers of relationship books are women. No woman is going to buy a book about shacking up.

  • Asampete

    You’re right, I won’t ‘luck out’, because my Nigerian parents made sure of that by achieving a higher education,ensuring that I have ALL that I need so I don’t have to depend on cretin like The Dream.
    For the record, Christina Milian was relevant LONG before we even knew who Terius ‘The Dream’ Nash was.

    Oh, and while I may not be ‘delusional’, my newly minted Ivy degree denotes my ‘brilliance’, as you put it. So thanks for the compliment, asshole.

  • Nope

    It’s called being a good father. What is fatherhood to you all? Simply being there? Most men that are good fathers are involved in their children’s lives from the time they are born. And most halfway decent men will get up with the baby to help out the wife every now and then. Or a good father would simply want to comfort his child every now and then. And changing a diaper is too much work for a man now? Good grief! I guess all these involved fathers are just pansies. And you must really be delusional if you think that question was about a man coming home from work and then having to do the housework too. It was about asking if the man would be an involved father. I doubt you’re stupid enough to think that the interviewer was asking him if he would work and do the housework and raise the kids while his wife did nothing.

    It’s funny because you are always on this site talking about how black families are screwed up because there’s no man around, but fathers who are simply ATMs and present many times produce children that are no better than children from single parent households.

  • Starla

    @L..I have never believed in shacking up just because it has never appealed to me. But it would be great to hear a little bit more your experience. I am not being nosey, just curious.

  • MimiLuvs

    After the “70% of out-of-wedlock births/ Black women” stat was presented to the media, I did wonder if the statisticians also took cases of “co-habitation” was taken into consideration.
    If it was, why people (and when I say “people” I mean blog writers and their commentators) do not talk about those instances?
    I’ve noticed that people love to talk about “Around-the-way Tina with her brood of children and their daddies” but I haven’t heard much about “John and Carol and their children”.
    What I am trying to say is I haven’t read many articles (unless their religion-based) telling the women in those type of relationships to “keep their legs closed” and/or “get married to your babies’ father and stop shacking up”.

  • Pseudonym

    <>

    Spoken like a person who should truly never get married. That statement is SO @$$ backwards!

    (And why is it the male infamous cheaters who are writing these books?)

  • binks

    Basically!

  • ZH

    I agree. I have also shacked for 3 years until I decided to move on, which was last month. It was very hard emotionally but I realized that nothing was going to change(as far as getting a proposal from him) without change. Never will I go down that road again!

  • L

    @ZH
    I would certainly agree with it being emotionally hard especially when it goes against your moral and religious teachings. I even had the proposal and wore the ring for two years… cheating was my breaking point.
    I also learned that because he moved in with me, i didn’t respect him as much as i would a man that had his own place/bills/space. Overall i was so young and dumb, But this experience taught me more about myself and what i really want in a mate. and i believe in abstinence before marriage now… yeah after two kids, it finally clicked…lol.

  • Job

    Wedlock means marriage, therefore out-of-wedlock births mean births to unmarried mothers. This includes unmarried mothers who are co-habit with their partners. Reading comprehension 101.

  • Marisa

    Another issue I have is this generations of men who have this mentality that commitment to ONE woman is the end of the world but, they have NO issue running raw into women knowing children being produced is possible. Parenthood to me is the hardest thing to do but, many have no problem tying themselves for life with people they don’t feel worthy enough to marry and make a legal commitment. No its just run from chick to chick, dropping seed to seed on to the next. Then pull the Lamar Odom type play where you wife up some chick you known for a month, as a opposed to the one you had kids with and been with for 10 years. Men strange habits they exhibit that women sadly enable.

  • Wow

    Yes you are right. But when the black community is down to 2 strong couples vs. a million niglets…all your wants and desires go out the window. We are now in survival mode. We don’t have room for error. Have all the women you want but please wrap it up. OHHHH my bad. Black men don’t know how to do that now do they?

  • Starla

    @Melanie..you better preach. By that time there is nothing left for him to offer a woman but flatulence, bad breath, and bed sores.

    I honestly do not believe that men truly love women. Heterosexual men may love what is between a woman’s legs, but in aggregate I do not beleive men truly love, or even like women. I believe they tolerate women and there is the minority of men who definitely enjoy being husbands and fathers, but such men are in the mionirty. When I look at relationships from the global spectrum women need to be about their business and become more self-centered in their own lives, achieve their own goals and fulfill their own dreams without guilt or shame. But through early years conditioning, cultural and religious expectations women have bought into an illusion, and too many sacrifice their lives to men and have nothing to show for it in the end.

  • The Comment

    @ L

    We don’t care about him either but this is what you run into on the streets. America is full of men like this. And they have hella disguises; some listen to R&B, some like the Blues other chill to Lenny Kravits. They were locks, fades and braids. They make anywhere from nothing to a zillion dollars and some even have very high G.P.A.’s

    Believe you me sister….if this blog were around when I was 12….I’d the chiz-nit! (so I’d like to think)

    I know we clowin’ the hell of of The Nightmare but the more they voice their ignorance and the more we respond–hopefully each one teach one we save some young virgin the price of giving it up to some dummy who should have been aborted back in the 80s.

  • Z

    THESE men (rapper, thrice divorced, unfaithful types) need to STOP writing advice books. And women really need to stop buying them.

  • The Comment

    So what the sistah made a mistake. Big deal!

    ‘Reading comprehension’

    Who needs reading comprehension for the Dream???? Come on.

  • P

    For various reasons, women will move in with a man. It sounds like a good idea initially. It’s a good financial plan and you’re with your man every night. Don’t do this if you desire marriage with THAT man.

    The men become comfortable quickly because that woman is already in “wife” mode serving him like a husband. To the woman she is in it 100%, but for that man, it is still what it is – a financial plan (ways to save money). Why get married? You have the benefits of a roommate and a wife. And oftentimes, it seems as though these men will marry someone else.

    This book is ok for the women not desiring marriage. The-Dream is just telling the truth. As we already know, it has been said for years “if you move in with him, he will not marry you”. It still holds true. But women already know this, some women just believe their man will eventually change his mind.

    Final thought: The only living arrangements I’ve heard of resulting in marriage are the engaged couple. They either marry from a year to six months later.

  • P

    they’re old and decrepit and need a helpmate to care for them —

    Now thatt was funny! So true, a man will find a wife at 70…

  • http://gravatar.com/zyasia zyasia

    somebody tell Teddy Ruxpin to have SEVERAL seats. PLEASE.

  • Rodney

    @Starla

    It is amazing how men can dislike women even though raised by women.

    Hmmm.

  • Sheron09

    I was just thinking about this some days ago. I came to the conclusion that men do not necessarily like women, just the “pleasures” they provide. We are also too different. Men will say the only reason a relationship doesn’t work out is because women fail to play their part, all the while forgetting that they too have a role to play. Men should just date each other. They have damaged enough women on this earth with their skewed thinking.

  • Joy

    beejcee: I loved the book, and the movie. The movie was entertaining, and the book gave some solid advice. Bottomline no one is forced to take his advice. Steve’s advice book is no different than all of us chiming in, and giving our (relationship)advice, and opinion(s) to friends, and relatives. The big difference is that Steve got PAID, and I ain’t mad at him. And as far as his life being a mess….whether we agree with him, or not…he seems to be doing pretty D good right about now. Two (2) TV shows, and it appears that he finally got marriage right. Good for you Steve.

  • Sheron09

    Also to add, men who claim that women are crazy and have issues fail to realize that many got that way due to the men they have dealt with. Go figure…

  • Joy

    E.M.S.: Sorry but this isn’t really about you (only). My bigger point…..MOST women want to eventually get married. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to get married

  • Adinah

    Most black women do this because we have no other choice. We see the rules black men have been playing by for years, and we simply join in. Unfortunately we don’t have the luxury of having different options like women of other races do, so we simply put up with the mess. Most black women want more, but if we plan on being with a black male, we most likely will never get it. To make a long statement short, many of us simply HAVE NO CHOICE!!!

  • Adinah

    @NOPE

    Are you seriously asking a black man what is “fatherhood’??? LOLLLL!!! The irony…good joke :-)

  • Asampete

    HAVE YOU SEEN YOUR DOWNVOTES…What is there to argue? Nothing you’ve said resonates with anyone on this site. It must suck being so delusional.

  • Kenzy

    only thing i agree with (as someone divorced) is what he said about things being more fragile cuz that same situation happened to me. together for 5 years would fight, not really break up, got married, fight….well as i said im divorced. sure seems like things became more fragile, both less forgiving i assume becaue with the word marriage we held each other to a higher standard (just a gues

  • Asampete

    @Adinah I pity his offspring.

  • Nakia

    I don’t understand this comment. I know some black men from whom i expect and get more than this.

  • Asampete

    Have you looked into a career in Stand Up? Once again you got me! The streets are just crawling with unemployed UPenn pre meds. In fact, this fall I’m going to defer med school enrollment so I can work at Starbucks. Seriously though, you’ve provided me some much needed entertainment. Enjoy your evening :)

  • thinkpink

    Nakia I always love reading your comments and we almost have the same name :) I know many men in life who I expect and get soooo much more than this from. I truly believe people will treat you the way you allow them too and if not than leave. Many of the men I’ve dated have loved me and getting the real thing is always worth the (sometimes long) wait.

  • Adinah

    @SMH

    Lol I was raised by my father. However that doesn’t erase the fact that most black men are deadbeats and do not understand the term “fatherhood”. Most of us younger black women don’t have much to choose from in the coming years, thanks to your “brothas”.

  • thinkpink

    Thank you joy. Steve Harvey’s book has nothing to do with this mess. In fact it’s basically a guidebook to help avoid men like The Dream. Steve’s book revolves around keeping your milk to yourself. If and when you decide to give the milk up make sure that man is a worthy recipient or at least know who you are giving it up to. I’m 1000 percent sure that most “think like a man” critics haven’t read the book and regurgitate what they gather from blog articles. Women who set standards for themselves (as Steve advises) aren’t falling for The Dream’s setup.

  • Asampete

    Oh. Another Black man unable to express himself without denigrating Black women. How original!

  • Anthony

    Clutch, why give this coon the time of day?

  • Jae Bee

    Sounds to me like you had some red flags early on in your relationship which clearly showed that you and your and partner were NOT right for each other. Seems to me like the “mistake” was not getting married, but not realizing that you should’ve ended things prior to that. If the relationship wasn’t working out when you were boyfriend/girlfriend it sure as hell wouldn’t work out by becoming husband/wife.

  • http://gravatar.com/keimia Kam

    What? You most certainly have options, women need to stop telling themselves that they don’t, because all it’s doing is enabling destructive behaviors in relationships. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting a positve and healthy marriage with a man. If you have to go elsewhere then do it.

  • Adinah

    @SMH

    You look like an idiot here as well lol. The truth is the truth. The generalizations I made are accurate. And yes, I have a dad lol. But my father is from a whole different generation of men. Dudes in my age bracket are degenerates and it makes me sick that these are the men I have to choose from when it’s time to get married…. that’s if I want to stay with the black race. Most likely I won’t.

  • Asampete

    Poor Adinah, she’ll never be able to attract a quality Black man like yourself. One who will dismiss her opinions and label her a delusional imbecile, 2 bit minion, and all the other insults you’ve hurled on this thread. Us quality lacking black women are really missing out. Tell us, oh great one, how we can attract a gem like you. What’s the secret?!

  • Adinah

    “Basically, don’t get angry at Black men because you can’t compete with the women that have the attention of quality Black men.”

    Quality black men???? Where at?? Please tell me where lol. There aren’t any in my area and DEFINITELY none in my age bracket. In my other statement I was referring to on the other page, when I say “we” as in black women, I wasn’t necessarily speaking of myself specifically. I was generalizing.

  • Adinah

    @ Asampete

    Exactly! He is such a catch himself lol.

  • http://gravatar.com/mimiandy1683 MimiLuvs

    I know the definition of ‘out-of-wedlock’, dear.
    Thank you for your concern.

  • Adinah

    @SMH

    That statement “specifically” wasn’t a generalization. I thought you were referring to my other comments. That statement I made about black men and fatherhood is indeed true. You don’t have to believe if I have a father if you don’t want to, but don’t digress from the point that most black men, of our time I should say, don’t know what the meaning is . My dad is an exception. Younger age black women have nothing to look to when it comes to mating, unlike other races of women who have choices within their communities. Play dumb if you want.

  • dbsm

    I’ve noticed that many comments “opposing” (per se) marriage on this site get voted down. Commentors here are hell bent on the marriage panacea for the Black community in light of the 70% stat that has been circulating forEVER ad nauseum. Whilst the divorce rate is steadily climbing, commentors fail to realize all these generalizations about White folks come from holding White folk standards as an idealization without have insight into their realities.

    White women and children often fall into abject poverty post-divorce. If they don’t, many spend years in court battles in a system designed for profit and not the benefit of the people involved, especially not the children. Thousands upon thousands sucked dry on attorneys, psychologists, parenting coordinators, etc. Children of divorced parents fair poorly, with emphasis on the emotional and mental stability of children whose parents separate between the ages of 7 -10 and 11-13. These kids and their families are burdens on the school systems but good profits for the machine.

    EMS, when your options and make the best decision for your life circumstances.

  • dbsm

    *weigh your options

  • E.M.S.

    Thanks for responding rena.

    I do agree that you probably shouldn’t have kids that way, but my biggest issue with marriage is financial, social and legal implications.

    On the financial end, the way it was explained to me, the government can decide your finances and assets are joined even if that is not the personal agreement between the couple. I have a strong distaste of this idea.

    Regarding social matters, I don’t care for the unnecessary pressure people put on couples to get married, and the tendency to see unmarried couples as less valid than those who are married in various situations.

    Lastly, I dislike the legal side. I find it silly the government can issue a piece of paper that proves I love somebody. And why should a judge get so much power as to toss out a prenuptial agreement if they see fit? Why should women be shown more favor in court because they’re women? Regardless of gender, why should someone get half of what they did not help to acquire because they are not as financially stable?

    For the most part marriage seems to be more of a social display and legal contract than anything else. So in those terms, marriage is not attractive to me the way it’s handled. I love the theory of marriage, but not the practice.

  • E.M.S.

    You essentially made my point though just on the side defending marriage. Nobody can define your marriage, and nobody can define your relationship either just because you aren’t married, that’s my point.

    A lot of people here are for marriage, which is fine, but they look down on people who aren’t married. That attitude is so condescending.

    I like the theory of marriage, but not the practice because of the legal and financial issues. The government can decide to join your assets even if the couple decides they are still technically separate, they can decide to give half of what you made to someone else who did not help produce it even if you have a prenup by throwing it out. They get to give you a piece of paper that validates a relationship, this is what I see wrong with marriage.

    As for your comment about my attitude being a “cop out”, that is your opinion. I am genuinely interested in a long term relationship, but unless my concerns can be settled, no thanks. I could very well be with the same guy for decades longer than people who do get married, and that would only prove my point that unmarried couples are just as valid as married ones. It’s the attitude towards them that is the problem.

  • Adinah

    @Kam

    You’re right. If many of us were to go out, we would definitely find options. But unfortunately, many of us are looking exclusively inside our own race for whatever reasons. We should definitely be more open.

  • Boy, Get Yo’ Life

    The Nightmare IS the cow…

  • Sasha

    I’m just at a loss….justifying grown men playing video games, citing the MRA, women aiming loaded guns at your nuts because they want marraige…..what? Men are aware that there are some women out there who have no desire to be married right? I have two sisters, they both have very little desire to be married at all. These women exist, find them, love them and your financial worries of “a bitch taking half” will no longer exist. Additionally, yes women are more likely to be the ones initiating and filing for divorce HOWEVER for a lot of women I know who are divorced, it is a last resort final option after every other option they felt comfortable with was explored. I know most men think it’s open season on their bank account, financial security/ bank accounts and the death blow to their sexuality when they get married but honestly if you already have that opinion of marraige then it’s just in your best interest to not get married. I find it funny that a lot of men run around talking about the doom and gloom of divorce/ marraige when it comes to money however most of these men aren’t making much money to begin with and the only property to their name is their car they’ve been driving around in for 6 years and are still making payments on.

  • http://www.lillian-mae.com Lillian Mae

    Maybe YOU have no choice, but I love myself too much to settle for whatever you accepted in your life.

    The problem is obviously that women have settled, so it has become or appeared to have become the norm.

  • http://www.lillian-mae.com Lillian Mae

    I think you underestimate the women who will purchase this book.

  • Anthony

    As a man, I say take a lesson from women and really be selective. Sleep with fewer women, and build better relationships. Don’t lose your mind because a woman is fine, has good sex, and says the right things, Check her out thoroughly to see if she really means it. I think marriage is a great institution, but only with the right person.

  • Rodney

    I accidentally pressed the “report comment” button. Please disregard.

    Great comment, I hope it holds up!

  • Rodney

    @Red Pill

    You are out of your mind.

    Cohabitation is dangerous as well.

    If you harbor someone for 36 consecutive hours in some states, you cannot legally put them out.

  • Marketing Gimmicks

    And this is why I love bringing the conversation back to women.

    Ladies. You get what you BELIEVE you deserve; not what you say you what. Men pay attention to your actions; not your words. This is how they are wired.

    The Dream is only stating his TRUE feelings on the matter so I cannot attack him for that…but it’s up to the woman to ultimately decide if she co-signs this philosophy. A woman who knows her worth will not move in before marriage if that is not what she wants.

    Women need to start understanding how powerful they are. Men only know one language and that’s RESPECT. And a man will not respect you if you’re wishy washy or have the propensity to handle your needs with KID GLOVES.

    Believe me. I’ve learned the hard way on this.

    Most women out of low-self worth, insecurity and fear of being alone will take whatever a man throws at her not knowing all along that SHE has the power to walk away and make a new CHOICE. Nagging a man, begging a man, waiting years on end for a man to marry you or shacking up when what you really want is a life-partner will only feed your resentment for not standing in what you really want.

    The Dream has obviously had his share of women that he hasn’t had to respect; hence his true feelings being revealed.

  • Chatty

    @Lillian Mae – Oh how I wish that it was only the case for the Dream, but my brother who is unemployed, ex-con has a girl who went to college laying up having baby after baby, while posting things like “2 kids 1 daddy” like it’s bragging rights. Mind you he hasn’t married her, but refers to her as his “common law wife”. WTF!
    Having someone like the Dream come out and say foolishness like this validates the actions/feelings of some of the average Joes.

  • Deb

    Haha, any lady that dates this man knowing she would like to eventually settle down and get married after he has said this is a fool. That’s why I try to get this sort of information from guys (directly and indirectly) when I first start dating them. Life is too short for mess like this. Marriage is a LIFELONG COMMITMENT and THAT is what scares the crap out of him. He’s delusional if he think It’s the same as playing house with your girlfriend and kids.

  • Deb

    Horny teenagers trapped in grown mens’ bodies.

  • Deb

    more comments/reactions/traffic

  • Anon

    “…and anyone with eyes can see.”

    Can you ever state your opinion without insulting someone?

  • lola289

    I agree too!
    Women need to “shut up shop” ’til marriage..

  • Nope

    So women made you all man children? Actually that 50% stat is really affected by all the young immature people who get married and all the people who suck at marriage who continue to get married over and over. With the educated crowd, it’s lower. And for people who get married in their late twenties and older, it’s lower. I read somewhere that men who request custody of their children get it half of the time, and most men are giving their ex-wives money in the form of child support which I see nothing wrong with. You created a child. Take care of it. If you don’t like giving child support to her, try to get custody.

    It is very, very stupid for a woman to have children oow. Look at the situation black women are in. What’s so sad is that they think everything is fine or that they’re doing something amazing. Some of the poorer ones think they are winning by working the system. Sadly, they know that’s probably the only type of family they can have. Then they’ll complain about the lack of mentors or cheer Obama on as chews out fathers on Father’s Day. I for the life of me can’t think of a reason to shack up with a man and have his children only to have to do it alone when he gets bored and leaves. Raising children alone with no male role model not to mention only having a single income. Also if you’re a good mother, this probably screws up your love life. You don’t have that much time to date and many quality men may not be interested in a single mother. Lots of women seem to have no problem with taking this risk, but it’s very stupid. The risks for a man getting married are not as high. People get easy divorces all the time. Half of these marriages that end in divorce hardly end in men paying loads of alimony to ex-wives.

    Men have the right to say that they don’t want to get married. They do it in Sweden. I guess it works there, but here, not so much. My problem with men like that is they are usually liars that lead women on. You don’t want to get married. Tell the truth when I ask you because I do want to get married and have my children in the security of marriage. I have no interest in dating someone who doesn’t. It’s a big waste of time.

    Also I agree with Anthony. Men need to choose better partners. This is what folks tell complaining baby mommas all the time. You chose that dusty dude. You chose that leeching woman. Rich men like Kobe Bryant go after exactly the types of women they want. Am I really supposed to see them as the poster child of the MRA movement? You wanted a pretty trophy wife who was dependent on you, you pay for it.

    Cohabitation in Sweden provides probably the same security as marriage. Here it does not. If men don’t want to get married because they like a variety of women or they don’t want to be with one for the rest of their lives or because they are worried about their finances, by all means do what you want. Just be honest about it, and if men know deep down that they don’t have staying power or that the woman that you’re involved with is not a good person, for the love of whatever god you believe in, don’t create any children. Looking at the sad state of so many black kids and mothers doing it alone has gives me plenty of reasons to avoid men who think like you and The Dream. If that’s all I have for the future, maybe I’ll just avoid all of it.

  • lola289

    OOoooh interesting comment…
    Scary, BUT interesting! o_0

  • Anthony

    Brothers, Nope makes a great point. Women that have something going on don’t want to be stuck with some dude’s kid after shacking. Taking a step back and honestly looking at partners would save everyone a ton of heartache.

  • lol

    “The logic is bullet-proof…”

    and what of the fact that if a couple lives together for a lengthy period of time (whatever it is for whatever state one lives in) they are considered common-law hubby and wife?

  • Z

    @Anon

    he’s a black man, very few of those can be civil .

  • http://Clutch Michelle

    Where is your mother? I know you have one or maybe you have mommy issues so you hate women. WOW… I have no words for your comment.

  • lol

    @ RedPill

    let me piggyback on Nope’s comment.

    the rate of divorce for folks who enter their 1st marriage while being
    a) college grads, and
    b) over the age of 25

    is 20 %.

  • Treece

    To each his/her own…..everybody has thier preferences and relationships and marriage ideals aren’t “one size fits all”. The Dream is speaking from his own experiences with marriage and generalizing. Not all men feel the way you do, fool. Not all woman are Christina Millian. Things don’t get sour because you get married. The probably had BEEN sour all along because you had different expectations of what marriage was for you. Men and women need to be having these conversations before “jumping the broom”. Don’t start giving pseudo-advice after your marriage failed and all of a sudden be an advocate of cohabitation because YOU failed to make your marriage work.

    Know what YOU want as the endgame of dating (whether it be marriage or cohabitation) and don’t settle for anything else. If you start dating someone who seriously does not want to be married as the goal after courtship, and you continue to date him/her, fall in love, move in then don’t get mad when you all don’t, in fact, end up married.

    This is why I hate these “relationship advice” books. People go spouting all of what they think is true of relationships when most of it is subjective. On the most basic of good advice anyone could possibly give, I would just say know yourself, love yourself, and don’t settle (whatever settling means to you). For instance, I would never settle for a man who did not want marriage as his goal. I won’t accept otherwise. I want to be married: point blank, period. I refuse to waste me time dating someone who doesn’t want to be eventually. I don’t need a book to tell me that.

  • http://Clutch Michelle

    For every male horror story there is a woman who also had a horror story. I was a mil vet and mil spouse whose husband had a baby with another soldier and walked out of the marriage. My son lives with him and all he lost was child support money that he pays to the other baby mom. It works both ways.

    I also know a female in the navy that has to pay her navy husband alimony and child support when the daughter is with him half the time. So…. men aren’t always the only ones that pay. He also cheated and walked.

  • Sasha

    The thing that disgusts me about this is that when married men talk about marraige in a completely negative, emasculating and downright disrespectful light. What they seem to forget is that NO ONE forced them to go out, buy the ring, pop the question and walk down the aisle at gunpoint. They did this of their own volition. Instead of being a bitter asshole, why not appreciate the woman you decided to be with for life and the children you have or may have in the future. I 100% agree with you, men should just be up front but before the fact. Dream knew how he felt marraige before he got married yet he went through with it anyways and now he’s shooting his mouth off everything. Shut the hell up dude.

  • donnadara

    The marriage rate has been going down for people of all races who are poorly educated and low income. Economics is a better indicator than race of whether people get married or not. The media enjoys pushing the view that educated black women will die alone with cats, but that is not statistically correct. Educated, middle class black women do marry, they just wait a little longer.

  • http://gravatar.com/thevirtualnationofafricanamericans Ken Kojei

    Since Hammurabi and the advent of shepherd kings, meaning human beings who overtly or covertly herd people and derive their income from them under the euphemistic name government, marriage has been a tool of control. Period. If marriage were necessary in the sight of the creator, you couldn’t even have sex unless you were, not to mention children. But that is not the case.

    Marriage allows authorities to identify each family. It allows them to manipulate and control populations based on their emotional attachments and physical relationships to each other. The plan is always money. Money for the wedding by the thousand to hundred thousand to million in some cases. Money to get a marriage license [no test required though], money for prenatal, money to deliver the child, money for post natal care, money for everything that concerns the baby, lots and lots of it. Catering to the mother’s emotions they rob families blind.

    In the marriage, the wife is the first and most effective agent the authorities have to keep the man in line. To make sure he doesn’t rebel against the BS and take out some losers who really need to go anyway. The moment he stops toeing the line she is likely the very first to turn his a… in to the authorities because he has “lost his mind”!!!

    In the marriage she is most likely to be the first ultimately to reduce or eliminate sex in the relationship and the first to cry foul if the cat decides to get it somewhere else. So the man becomes another one of her dolls which she puts on a shelf until SHE gets ready to play. And once he VIOLATES, OMG!!! No hell is there more profound than life with that harpy. Her vengefulness will never account for the many ways she destroyed whatever love he had for her, it will only seek to destroy him down to the corpuscle.

    The point is, a true marriage is not for little girls. A lot of women remain little girls all their lives and never become women at all, even when they have children. Marriage is not a unilateral involvement designed to provide security to women and no significant value for men.

    I can get online any time and summon to my house a very hot, attractive and willing companion, who will do exactly what I want, when I want, for as long as I want if I have her fee. She will be funny, engaging, imaginative, and charming. If not I won’t call her again. I will spend an absurd amount of money less on this than on a wife. I most certainly won’t have to endure endless hours of listening to how unhappy she is about her family, her job, her friends, and most especially me. I won’t be treated like a chattel slave and I won’t be taken entirely for granted. So what was that they were saying was so good about marriage? Oh! The spiritual connection!!! Well, typically when I have that spiritual connection with a woman, which is awesome and cool and in many cases in my life with black women especially life long she thinks of me as just a friend. Somebody to put her silly arse back together after she’s made another stoopid choice in a “man”. Not mad about it. Just sayin’!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/thevirtualnationofafricanamericans Ken Kojei

    Generalizing is the problem here. No rational mind generalizes when it comes to sentient beings. Each is unique, individual and likely to surprise you even if you think you know everything there is to know about them. The biggest problem black women have choosing a man is they adopt a completely European value system to apply when choosing from non-european men. Not only that, they have a totally idealistic view of a system that DOESN’T EVEN WORK WELL FOR WHITE PEOPLE.

    The first thing I want to know about the matter when a woman says “My” man about me is…DEFINE “MY”? What does that mean to you? What rights do you think you have because of it? What am I giving up, that I had uninhibited access to, when I allow you to get away with calling me “Yours”? And yes. It goes both ways and I applaud any woman who has sense enough to really understand my meaning.

    Show me a woman who can stay out of my head, in my heart, respect my independence and autonomy, especially my God given right to develop myself, however I choose…Show me a woman who has the confidence to make her life decisions without heavy reliance on what anybody thinks except her own self…show me a black woman who has discovered the BS game which is most of American life, who is immune to the consumer traps and vanity traps laid for her…show me a woman whose guidance system doesn’t originate between her thighs and who knows herself to be a manifestation of the Supreme Being and treats me likewise and I will show you a marriage made in heaven. Otherwise, just leave me alone.

  • Kay

    It just sounds like he’s a bit bitter about what has happened in his past and he may not want to relive that. Marriage is NOT for everyone, so I can’t judge him for it. However, I don’t want to see anymore of these men who have been burned giving out anymore advice. Consult a therapist, find out why those relationships didn’t work, do some soul searching and THEN write a book. But make it clear that your experiences are in no way generalizable to the entire population.

  • http://gravatar.com/loverloverlovertalia kiki80

    Not only old but BROKE as hell with tons of baggage. That’s when you see them shuffling to the altar. No thanks, sir.

  • http://gravatar.com/pocketsizednegro Courtney**

    Ken, I’m going to ignore most of the very obvious bitterness and thinly veiled contempt for women dripping from every other word that you’ve written. It’s difficult, but I’m going to do it and just make a couple simple points that will probably blow your mind.

    1) Believe it or not, there are women who actually enjoy sex. Probably not with YOU – and from your words, it’s not a big secret why – but there are several of us out there – dozens, even – who actually do not use sex as a weapon and engage in it because, by golly, we actually enjoy pleasing ourselves and our partners.

    2) Your assumptions about women marrying just to be taken care of and taking all their money, while laughably absurd for a number of reasons, are easily disproven by the fact that there are married men who are not wealthy. And even – brace yourself – POOR married men.

    3) You see yourself as a husband being akin to being treated like “chattel slave.” Despite your attempt to provide a historical context for marriage, clearly you know fuck-all about the concept. Here’s a hint – it’s pretty universally obvious WOMEN were the chattel, and continue to be in many areas of the world.

  • http://gravatar.com/thevirtualnationofafricanamericans Ken Kojei

    That’s pretty defeatist. If you can’t find decent men among young black men, I’m sure there are single older men who just might have a clue. The problem is, most sistahs are trapped in their own lists and don’t consider other possibilities until they get beat up by the dating game of their peers. That’s too bad.

  • The Moon in the Sky

    “Men pay attention to your actions; not your words. This is how they are wired.”

    Not true.

  • JS

    @ EMS

    I am not looking down on you for not wanting to get married, I’m trying to logically understand your reasoning as it is in essence working against you. The legal issues that you are concerned with would be addressed if you got a prenuptial agreement. Prenuptial agreements that are thrown out or changed are done so because enough care was not taken in writing them. This can be because it was not in accordance to state law, not with reflection to any kids or assets they were sharing pre-marriage, if any rules in the prenup are broken or if fraud can be proven. Having seasoned lawyers who represent both parties (also important) taking all that into account and you have an iron clad prenup.

    Your main problem is you are letting what other people and society thinks dictate your relationship and the choices you make on it.

    You said: “They get to give you a piece of paper that validates a relationship, this is what I see wrong with marriage.”

    Meaning that despite the benefits that come with being married you don’t want to feel like someone else needs to validate your relationship so you wont get married. Basically you are not getting married to spite society which in turn really just spites yourself as you loose the legal, medical, and tax benefits that come with marriage.

    My question to you is: If you really wouldn’t let others define your relationship then why do you care about any perceived “validation”? Why are you letting your hang ups about being single vs. being married keep you and your life partner from getting benefits?

    I didn’t mean to infer you aren’t ready for a long time relationship. However, to be in a long-term healthy relationship and still not want to get married, despite the benefits (as I have addressed your legal concerns), is a illogical. It signifies that there is a deeper root or reasoning for not wanting to get married, 95% of the time that means commitment issues. Now I see for you it isn’t your lack of wanting to commit but you being hung up on the social implications, which as I said before is a weak and silly reason. You are letting others keep you from getting ahead.

    Now I am not advocating marriage like its something every couple has to do, I don’t believe in rushing into things. People shouldn’t get married until they are ready for commitment, to share their lives and build a family. However once they are ready for long-term commitment, it works more against them if they don’t.

  • http://gravatar.com/stardancer2008 stardancer2008

    Terius needs to have several seats. What could he possibly write about? He “bought the cow” twice! I’m getting tired of men writing BS books about us to get money.

  • http://gravatar.com/thevirtualnationofafricanamericans Ken Kojei

    A minus seven from the readers on that one. Gee. The truth is not very popular is it? There! Now it’s a minus six!!! I agree. There is very little to recommend marriage to a man in today’s society. Still, we really do like the idea. In practice, however, not happening. There is a certain kind of hardness to women these days. They used to be feminine, loving, kind, sweet. You could easily tell the difference between their spirit and that of a man. Now? Don’t even get me started!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/thevirtualnationofafricanamericans Ken Kojei

    Yep you’re right about that. They got divorced. You should here their stories sometimes. They know of what they speak. But I hear a lot of defeatism from women here that is really counterproductive. Maybe actually listening to men would set you on a better path. For truth, the most successful women with black men I know have that as a noticeable characteristic. They listen. They actually like men. They are self-sufficient so they don’t “need a man.” They have sense to know when to back off and get out of his head. They understand the he is human and has to be treated as such. Stop and think about it. Do you, woman, yea I mean you too, do you really think men are human beings, with hearts, feelings and the right to be who they are even if YOU marry them?

  • Dora

    How can you complain about black men when there are also a lot of black women who are more than willing to open their legs to men who who would not in a million years marry them. Women need to know their self worth and stop dropping their panties to any man who use the L word or men who give them a Hermes bag.

  • NTG

    @Ken Kojei

    Men should start by treating women as humans first. You only talk that mess because you are in America. Go overseas where you see women being treated like animals. These women are actually “submissive” and “obedient” but still get treat like sh!t. When men as a whole see women, the first thing they see are objects and animals. You all are the ones who have made most women bitter with your deceit and entitlement. Why should women listen to you all when all you do is lie? You all don’t even live by example.

  • Lauren

    *throws 30 TVs in the Chesapeake Bay* I’m sick of this shat!

  • CAsweetface

    @Melanie I hope whoever his next victim is reads this as well but chances are she’ll have that common, yet extremely annoying trait too many women have summed up by the sentence “I can change him.” Girl please. “If I just do this or that or the other than he will realize I’m better than the rest of the chicks he’s been with.” Guys like this don’t have the capacity to recognize a great chick standing right in front of them because deep down they will always feel inadequate. I wish more men were taught to deal with their inner workings before spouting out nonsense like this supreme douche.

    And @Chatty Are we related? LOL Sounds like half the men in my family! smh…My daddy excluded, thank god!

  • lol

    @Ken

    single older men are exactly the same. just older. that’s why they are “single older men”.

  • Nope

    @Red Pill – That’s the point. It is not really a coin toss for most of the people on this board, and MRAs or MGTOWs or whatever sound just as whiny as you think Sasha is when they exaggerate about how horrible the institution of marriage is. All you’ve said is that marriage doesn’t give anything new to men and exaggerated about the probability of being taken to the cleaners. By all means, go your own way. I appreciate honesty and see no point in trying to shame men into marriage. There are lots of people male and female that should not be married. But this idea that women and feminism made men lose their ambition in life is poppycock. Man children are the way they are because they want to be broke and play Xbox all day and do nothing not because they’re scared a little ole woman is going to take everything they worked for. If women are influencing these men any, it’s because these men know that they can go out and get sex easily and that’s the real reason that they don’t have any ambition to do more. In the past, men did things like that to get respect from other men and to also get women. Now, they don’t have to impress women, and they don’t really care about what other men think because they’re getting sex and food and housing and money even if it is not much. Basically, they are man children because they can get the milk for free not because they’re scared of women taking them to the cleaners. Hey, they’re redefining their masculinity without thinking of society or women. Not our fault. I mean aren’t men winning in this situation? No ball and chain.

  • Pema

    Marriage is hard work. If it were easy more people would do it. It’s definitely harder than singing songs about the strip club.

  • Stanley

    That’s a lot of comments

  • Rodney

    @Red Pill

    As a man to interacting with women today. You have to be laser-focused/sharp.

    I agree with all your points.

    I was just saying cohabitation is BAD!

    When you live in a society where you have to know your legal rights before you get to know someone. It’s bad

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