marvin-winans-1

On Sunday, the Perfecting Church, which is ran by Pastor Marvin Winans, will hold a special blessing of its congregation’s children.  Unfortunately one child will not be allowed to participate.

Charity Grace’s son, 2-year-old Joshua, is not allowed to participate in the church’s dedication ceremony.

“I want to instill values and morals in my son based upon the word of God,” said Grace.

According to My Fox Detroit, Grace called the church  on Tuesday to make arrangements. “I told them I was not married and that’s where everything just broke loose.” Grace said  a church official told her Pastor Winans’ policy is that he doesn’t bless children of unwed mothers in front of his congregation. 

“I’ve never felt so degraded and disrespected in my life,” said Grace.

“What they could do for me is let my son get dedicated, during a week day with one of the elders of my choice,” said Grace.

“I absolutely would not set foot back in the church right now because I feel like they look down upon me and my kind, meaning single moms and unwed mothers. The church should be the last place you should go to be judged and denied,” said Grace.

Unfortunately My Fox Detroit was unable to reach Pastor Winans for a comment on his “policy”. Way to go with shunning a child, Pastor Winans.

Clutchettes, what do you think about Pastor Winans’ policy?

 

Fox 2 News Headlines

  • http://www.facebook.com/shania.l.turnage Shania L Turnage

    well its not the child fault, refusing a child is ungodly the bible say Jesus loves the little children no matter what.

  • http://www.facebook.com/tiffany.s.carver.9 Tiffany Stafford Carver

    Wow…that is a shame!

  • naan

    the whole “born with sin” mentality is one thing that i don’t understand about Christianity.

    what this child’s mother got to do with this child being saved by God?

  • http://www.facebook.com/melisa.o.ross MeLisa Onmygrind Ross

    Yup..^^^^^

  • http://www.facebook.com/melisa.o.ross MeLisa Onmygrind Ross

    The sin was n the sex…. Not the outcome of it….which was the child….thats y i dnt put ppl on a pedestal

  • http://www.facebook.com/emaize Eunice Maize

    Why would even want to continue to attend this church knowing this is how the pastor feels? I would take my child to another church immediately.

  • march pisces

    i call bullshiggity on the play! what the sam hell does what the parents did have to do with dedicating this child. SMDH! winans and those in his congregation who endorce this policy should be shame of themselves. so much for not judging people. hmmm, remembering why i left organized religion and no longer consider myself a christian.

  • http://www.facebook.com/soyinidenise Soyini Denise

    This nonsense is why religion has so much capacity for evil and harm, why I want nothing to do with it

  • http://www.facebook.com/irma.clement Irma Clement

    Another example of the blatant hypocrisy that is so prevalent within that family.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michelelouise.ridleycook Michele-Louise Ridley-Cook

    ass

  • http://www.facebook.com/oreliam Orelia L. Mullings

    Who is he to say who is gonna be blessed by God or not? He is not God and he needs to humble himself…pride comes before a fall…these “false churches” are leading people in the wrong direction…

  • Ariahead

    I thought that we were supposed to love with the love of Christ. I didn’t know that we could make up rules on our own. This just sickens me. I hope that this lady finds a loving and inviting church home that will honor and cherish her son in front of it’s congregation. That would be a great example to the congregation about not being judgmental and showing Christ’s love. It’s not up to us to judge or change people. That is God’s job. Our only job her on earth is to love and help one another.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mzmark95 Beloved Blewett

    …& yet Jesus arrived here with a stepfather !!

  • march pisces

    winans should be the last to deny a child b/c they were born out of wed lock….hate for someone to really research and report why he got divorced….ummm yeah pot calling the kettle black. damn shame!!!!!

  • Lala

    And one fo the many reasons why I left the church……I got sooooo tired of church leaders acting as if I needed them to access God. Who are you to stop me from being blessed? Who are you that I NEED you to bless me? You want to set an example but end up vilifying a mother and making her child feel as if he was a mistake that doesn’t deserve to be blessed…..Oh the hypocrisy!!! Practice what you preach? How about preach what you practice and you will have no one to follow you – I can get to hell all by myself without your help, thank you!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/felicia.layeni Felicia Layeni

    He did not say the child could not be blessed; just that the mother could not stand in front of the congregation to have this done. This is standard.

  • https://www.facebook.com/kelley.johnson.75436 Kelley Johnson

    I for one am disgusted by the OOW birth rate in Black America. It is completely pathetic and it’s killing the community. But this is not the way to change that. The children are not the problem and shouldn’t be punished.

    Secondly, I’ve had a problem with Marvin Wayans since he did all that showboating at Whitney’s funeral. For a good hour, he barely mentioned her.

  • aziza123

    The bible is very clear on this one: you should not have sex before marriage. If you do and you end up pregnant, the child will be a bastard!

  • https://www.facebook.com/kelley.johnson.75436 Kelley Johnson

    I meant “Winans”, not Wayans.

  • http://gravatar.com/geenababe geenababe

    This family rubs me the wrong way ever since I seen some of the members on Celebrity Crime Files for Michael Winas. I could think of a reason why he did it but you shouldn’t blame the child for sins of the parent.

  • Tiff

    If this is a true story then it is undoubtedly sad. But it’s almost equally sad that all the good things that pastors, churches and Christians do aren’t highlighted as much as what the minority of unloving “Christians” do.

    I guess black people can’t help it since that happens to us all the time; most of us are doing good things but we mostly hear about the criminals, thugs and ignorant blacks.

    SMH

  • notahater

    He seems like he has let this go personal. It is not his place to judge, which is what he is doing. Not Christ-like for sure!

  • Sharon Lowd

    I think I would be looking for another church. This is wrong on so many levels, I’m almost at a loss for words. That’s right – punish the baby for what his Mom & Dad did.

    The pastor should be ashamed.

  • aziza123

    The first comment I agree with. It’s not the fault of the child that his mother doesn’t behave in a christian way.

  • Eva Wood

    I thank God that Jesus did not have to be dedicated in front of this church and other churches whose Pastors feel the same way. Jesus was uncertainly from an unwed mother. I cannot believe that this kind of stuff is still going on.

  • My Name is My Name

    I thought any and everyone was welcomed in the church.
    Lol. Religious people can be so wacky.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michelelouise.ridleycook Michele-Louise Ridley-Cook

    pastors like him give African American clergy a bad name. ass.

  • http://www.facebook.com/vonicia.lowe Vonicia Lowe

    *church

  • http://clutchmagazine.com Felicia

    I think the reason why He does not want to do it in front of the church, is because he does not want to give the indication that he agrees with having children out of wed lock. I feel that he is making a statement; that is, that he does not agree with having children out of wedlock. I’m thinking, that this is the reason why he will do it in private and not in public, that is, front of his congregation. we must all ask ourselves, if we are Christians, what are the biblical guidelines when it comes to baptizing anyone and then stick to the scriptures.

  • apple

    whoa?? was this a documentary or like a website?

  • lea

    i feel there is more to the story here, but how long has she been a member, is she just now knowing about their policy?

  • https://www.facebook.com/kelley.johnson.75436 Kelley Johnson

    From what I hear about Marvin Winans, he has no business standing in front of the congregation, let alone standing in the pulpit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/hsm.dyette Hsm Dyette

    Loser! But I bet he would take anything they put in the collection bowl.

  • apple

    then lets follow all the sins.. not just this one

  • http://gravatar.com/geenababe geenababe

    @Apple
    It was on Tvone this past Monday

    @ Felicia

    I agree with what you said that’s why I understand why he didn’t want to do it. It reminds me of someone on here saying how the black church can talk against other things but they can’t mention out of wedlock births because they will probably lose half of their congregation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashleyS17 Ashley Sy

    Well then, there goes the congregation

  • http://www.adivastateofmind.com A Diva State of Mind

    He may not agree but does that mean the child should be punished by not participating in the dedication. He’s also sending a message shaming women who do have children out of wed lock.

  • http://www.facebook.com/01.Oshun Angela Julien

    He forgets or has conveniently forgotten the words of Jesus “suffer little children come on to me”. These ideologues just wear a robe to hide behind. Jesus took after the hypocrisy of scribes and Pharisees of his time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/patrick.wasoba Phil Wasoba

    facepalm. even if he is serious about this shyt, some battles are not worth fighting. no respect on this decision, i wish you the maximum amount of shade

  • http://gravatar.com/urbansistaredux urbansista

    This is the standard at many churches – whether you agree with it or not. Many churches will baptize a baby born out of wedlock in a private ceremony. As a Christian it shouldn’t be about ‘shaming’ single mothers, but saying that, according to the Word of God, having children outside of marriage is wrong. Point blank, period. As a Christian, who attends service and tries to follow Jesus’ example, it doesn’t bother me to have a single mom baptize her child in service, but I am not down for this ‘don’t judge’ what is considered a sin in the church mentality. Either you want to follow God’s Word – and, by no means am I perfect or is any Christian perfect – or you want God to follow you and what YOU deem correct. You can’t have it both ways.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cindy.ridgway Cindy Ridgway

    The sins of the fathers will be visited on the sons… So much for a god of love. He only loves you if your not a woman,gay or willing to not THINK for yourself. Heck in some so called churches their close minded bigoted excuse for a god only likes white men who are straight. I hope those moms LEAVE that church in DROVES to find one that teaches of a living,loving caring god. Mama Yamaya anyone?

  • http://clutchmagazine.com Felicia Jefferson

    Maybe he is thinking like this, if I a man of the cloth baptizes a child who was born out of wed lock then people will think Gods OK with having sex outside of marriage ( which produces children out of wed lock). We all know he is not OK with it. he does not want to agree with the practice and is taking a stand.

  • http://gravatar.com/dollielintoniii C’mon Son

    Thank you there is a lot of lukewarm professed Christians out here. Either you stand for God or you don’t.

  • AnnT

    I bet he took her unweb mother tithes though…

  • http://www.facebook.com/beverley.m.smith Beverley MsJackson Ifyanasty Smith

    How is the child at fault? I thought that Christ instructed His followers to treat others the way we want to be treated. Christ said that the way you treat the “lowliest” of people is the way you would treat Him. This minister is arrogant and has elevated his sense of self-importance to above the god he serves. He has set himself up as Judge.

  • http://gravatar.com/dollielintoniii C’mon Son

    How is he punishing the child and/or shaming women? He will do the ceremony in private, so he is not excluding the child or the mother from anything.

  • UgoBAbeeeee

    Perfectly said….

  • Word

    I am no christian, but I’ll play devil’s advocate.

    He did not refuse the child. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the pastor is not averse to “blessing” the child; he just has a policy of not doing so in front of the congregation.

    The church is a private organization, and shaping the image of that organization is part of his job. The bible is pretty clear cut about this kind of iniquity, so why is he wrong for choosing not to promote it front of the congregation?

  • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.nealgrant Courtney Neal Grant

    I was unwed and my church dedicated my child during service. If the mom is a dedicated member, why punish her?

  • http://www.facebook.com/kilolo.kumanyika Kilolo Kumanyika

    How dare he and shame on the congregation for allowing that behavior

  • http://gravatar.com/rena215 rena215

    Blessing a child during service is not the same as condoning his/her parent’s behavior.

    Most importantly, though, as a leader and example to his congregation, Winans is charged with following Christ’s example. Jesus had no issue with anointing those who were considered the most shamed individuals in society (like *GASP* prostitutes and sinful women). What we learn from Him is that we should be trying to help those people in need, who are living in sin, not trying to shame/judge them. It’s so sad that so many “Christians” miss this point, when there are so many people they could be helping. Instead, it causes outsiders to turn even farther away from Christianity.

    This right here is shameful; If he thinks THIS overgeneralized policy is following Jesus’ example, he needs to go back and reread the new testament.

  • Tina

    Does the church interview the mom to see why she’s not married, such as is she divorced from an abusive ex? Do they reduce the amount of tithes and offerings they’ll take from single mothers? Black churches are filled with women who are single mothers (who have reached that status through a myriad of circumstances), and it always amazes me what women are willing to submit to from the pulpit whether it’s pastors who refuse to acknowledge their own children until they are forced to by the state or the child (Jamal Bryant & the pastor whose daughter called him out in an open letter) or foolishness like this.

    Mr. Winans presented himself as a buffoonish clown when he showboated over Whitney’s funeral so I would expect this from him.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alisha.minor Alisha Bolton

    I can definitely relate. My church did the same to me, so I waited and had my daughter baptized when she got old enough. I believe instead of denying them a public dedication with everyone else, parents should be counseled before having their child dedicated just to reiterate how things”should go”. But not to make the parents feel worse about the decision they made.

  • http://twitter.com/cbmts cbmts (@cbmts)

    “DEUTERONOMY 23:2: No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD”

  • http://gravatar.com/rena215 rena215

    Sorry, I meant *blessing*, not anointing

  • Anthony

    I think the child should have been blessed before the church because my understanding of Christianity is that it is an inclusive faith that does not judge the actual child. Frankly, I see no need for the mother’s marital status to come up during the ceremony.

    As for the church condemning out of wedlock births, I have no problem with it. The church has a specific set of beliefs and those who attend need to know that and deal with it. That said, unwed mothers are an easy target. How willing is Winans to go after other sinners? For example, is he going to to refuse to bless a child of a married man who has other children out of wedlock by other women?

  • ruggie

    The Bible states that we are all conceived in sin; we all inherit the original sin of Adam and Eve just by our very existence. Having married parents doesn’t change that, lol. Pastor Winans’ approach is not Biblically sound, it is more of a social chastisement of single mothers, via their children. And I disagree with him completely.

  • Nikkoli

    Thou shall not steal or covet they neighbors wife.

    Marvin WInans has done both…as so the majority of his family…lock the bastard out of his own church.

    Amen.

  • vintage3000

    Amen!

  • camille

    How about dropping a religion that says you are a whore and your child is less than human?
    I guess if she chose to have an abortion she would be in good standing amongst the congregation

  • Anthony

    @cbmts, I guess very few black people of the Diaspora can go to church since we can trace our origins back to slaves who were not allowed legal marriage.

  • http://gravatar.com/urbansistaredux urbansista

    I think we only know one side of the story. We don’t know if this church has programs that support single moms. A lot of churches do and in that respect, they are supporting the mother and child. In that respect, there is no judgement. We don’t know what this person’s relationships was with this particular church.

    I hear what you’re saying about Jesus hanging out with criminals and prostitutes, but he didn’t condone their actions. Love the sinner, hate the sin. I’m not going to condemn either party because I don’t know the full story. But I’m over people wanting to change God’s Word to suit their agendas – whether that’s the pastor who is rocking Armani suits in the pulpit and driving a Bentley or the congregant who wants not to be ‘judged’ or chastised when they have done someone that goes against the Bible’s teachings.

  • http://www.facebook.com/whitney.whit.37 Whitney Whit

    WTH!

  • http://airindanyell.tumblr.com Erin

    She should definitely find another church that’s more accepting. I wonder if she was widowed would she receive the same treatment?

  • Lover of God

    The reason why He does not want to do it in front of the church, is because he does not want to give the indication that he agrees with having children out of wed lock. It not that he dosent want to do it, his church office said he just want allow it public. I agree 100%. It has nothing to do with the child. The mother just choose to have the baby out of wed lock. If the young lady really want to dedicate her child to God, she will go through with doing it in a private setting. I wish all churches has standards like this, but now people get offended and want to go to another church because they cant be submissive to leadership or be accountable. Its not to offend anyone it to have standards. God bless you all

  • mrscollins

    this seems to highlight the struggle to balance holiness and inclusion in the Church.

  • http://www.lillian-mae.com Knotty Natural

    Exactly right! How can you be a part of a religion that does not condone behavior you display, then get angry for being reminded? Just like another said, at least 70% of the black church would be empty if it called out everything the congregation does that’s against god.

  • http://www.myblackfriendsays.com myblackfriendsays

    Boooooo.

    If you don’t agree with the parents’ choices, that’s fine. But don’t make the kids feel like outcasts.

  • r

    So my thing is what if this mother didn’t have the child out of wed lock? What is she was raped? She she then have an abortion? What if she was married and he divorced her? Or there were so called ‘reasons’ why the divorce was okay?…..Was it the child’s fault?

  • Pema

    I do not like the fact that single motherhood has become so acceptable. However innocent children should not be punished for their parents’ decisions.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jenn.michaela.5 Jenn Michaela

    ^^^And this is what is so wrong with church folk. Damn! At least they are coming. Nevermind what they are wearing.

  • http://twitter.com/cbmts cbmts (@cbmts)

    awesome, judge him on that. subject him to the same treatment and it’s only the fair thing to do.
    but if you’re a christian and you accept the bible and you accept what i quoted, then it doesn’t matter if the child was blessed in church or in the alleyway or not at all, he/she is doomed.

  • http://twitter.com/cbmts cbmts (@cbmts)

    based on what it says in Deuteronomy, you’re absolutely correct. again, i’m just stating what the bible says.

  • Starla

    I guess there is a reason it is called ‘the Perfecting Church’ afterall.

  • Dee

    Pastor Winans does not have the authority to save or bless anyone. However, the church DOES have the authority to decline to perform the ceremony in front of the congregation if it is their policy. If she does not agree with the policies of the church then she needs to find another place to worship. Sounds harsh I know but it is what it is.

  • Gotta be kidding me

    However isn’t the entire concept of Christianity forgiveness?! Yes there are principles and guidelines set forth in the bible, but we were all required to measure up exactly no one would be able to set foot into a church. Jesus came and died to teach us about forgiveness, compassion, and love. It’s not our job to judge each other. If this woman has repented of her sin then God has forgiven her. Who are we to hold sin over someone forgiven by God? Would Jesus have turned her away? Seeing as one of his closet followers was a prostitute I feel like he would give her a pass.

  • Furious Styles

    I don’t know the Bible from cover to cover, but when I last checked, Jesus didn’t really care about this kind of thing.

  • Those who live in glass houses……

    Go sit down somewhere!!! Should she be ashamed of having had her child? Should she hid the fact the she is not perfect and is looking to ‘bless’ her child like everyone else? Is she not a child of God that she should not be allowed to have the same perks as you perfect people? That Devil who is proclaiming to be a preacher man should be ashamed of himself….how dare he make an example of these women. If we are all born in sin (as is what Christians are taught) what is the the motherfuzzing difference that these children were born out of wedlock. You judgmental people all need to be in the same church together and see how long that lasts……

  • aziza123

    The bible does!

  • Lala

    No – if the child is being blessed or dedicated, the father cannot stand next to the child and mother, but the mother is supposed to stand with her child. What kind of church do you go to?

  • http://clutchmagazine.com Felicia

    I know Miss urbansista, We want God to bless us but will condone and accept the very things that God frowns upon. we think we can have it both ways. I think we like the God bless me and favor me parts of the bible but don’t want the ——- do it Gods waypars of the bible.

  • http://iamsooverit.wordpress.com iamsooverit

    He will bless them, JUST NOT in front of the congregation. This woman has a choice, either she can accept it or not… go to another church.

  • Anthony

    @myblackfriendsays, those are my feelings exaxctly.

  • Anthony

    @cbmts, you could take a portion of nearly anything and make it look silly. That goes triple for a religious book that was written over hundreds of years by multiple authors.

  • Shavonne Smith

    This is forever going to be an ongoing debate- and probably a no win situation. The ministry of Jesus was one of redemption and forgiveness– but also a call to holiness. It set a standard that us as Christians are meant to follow. It hurts my heart that this young lady and others may be turned away from the church because of things like this– BUT– what good is it to bring non-believers to a place wrong place.
    The church is not meant to placate– its meant to correct and uplift. “He chastens the one he loves.”
    We as a society are in a time where EVERYTHING is supposed to be accepted– and then we sit back and talk about “How things used to be”– we can’t have it both ways.
    My feelings are torn on this– I applaud the church for having conviction and standing on the word of God, but I cry for the children of God who feel dissuaded and turned away because of incidents like this. Does it say in the bible explicitly not to dedicate the children of unwed parents?? No. It does however discuss sex without marriage and fornication. Now truth be told the only difference between this young woman and many like her and other ‘Christians’ is that she has a manifestation in her child and the rest simply didn’t get ‘caught’. We do need to start setting examples of the way things are supposed to be done. I’m not sure of this young ladies situation– but for these coming generations they no longer believe there is anything wrong with sex outside of marriage, and barely know what ‘wedlock’ is because these things that were formerly out of the ordinary are now the standard. Daily it is the young person saving themselves for marriage that is made fun of and left out–
    What we as the church need to do is separate judgement from correction. The church offered a valid alternative. Back this up with explanation, counseling and edification and that’s a start in the right direction.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ Heather Lynne

    Jenn Michaela only the black church acts like that

  • http://www.facebook.com/jlatinajeter Jamie Jeter

    im not surprised. alot of churches do this.

  • Naan

    When any organization about religion starts claiming itself as a “private organization” that can set “policy” other than to protect property there is a BIGGER problem.

    DUH, I know it is “their” organization but their influence on the community ain’t about money. It is about helping people get saved! And that is why this story is appalling

    How you gonna deny a child from joining the church/mosque/synogoge/etc based on their parents? Ridiculous!

  • Mari

    I think people should not be so harsh towards the mother. Just because she is unwed doesn’t mean she is some kind of floozy ho. People see the word “unwed” and take it all the way out to left field. She could be in a longtime relationship with the child’s father and maybe they just don’t want to marry. She could be engaged. She could’ve been raped. The dad could be dead. The dad could be a deadbeat nutjob who bailed after the child’s birth. So many possible scenarios and some people want to cry foul just because the woman is unwed.

    Also, having a child out of wedlock is not a sin. Children are a gift from God and a blessing. Fornication is the sin, which I’m sure many MANY churchgoers engage in or have engaged in at some point. The only difference between them and this woman is they didn’t have a child as a result of it due to contraception or possible infertility.

  • Lee

    So my thing is there’s a “what if?” meaning there’s a need for clarity…Grace never spoke to the pastor one on one she didn’t hear it from his mouth so I think she needs to get clarity on why? and no I don’t agree with the policy, however I will not place blame or make judgmental comments on a whole community based off of one or two people’s he say she say with no facts…

  • TR

    “What we as the church need to do is separate judgement from correction.”

    Unfortunately, we can’t separate judgement from correction. To arrive at the need for correction a judgement must first be made. In every other situation in life where a correction is made a judgement preceded it. Maybe people can show more compassion when they judge. But there can be no correction without it.

    As a society we can’t on one hand get upset at everything we don’t like, but on the other hand believe everything is acceptable. And if we do determine certain things to be unacceptable what gives us that right? The woman in question didn’t need Marvin Winans’ permission to have her child. He also doesn’t need her permission to refuse her request. Who is right? Both can use the Bible to make their respective cases.

    This isn’t just about Christian churches. It is about an American society that wants everything to be permissible, but doesn’t want to deal with chaotic, confusing fallout.

  • https://plus.google.com/103118911344968189998 Courtney Rider (CCR6015)

    @Felicia, Urbansista, and Shavonne +1000!! I agree with your posts so much.

    I think that the issue isn’t about the child being punished at all. The baby boy is 2 years old, he won’t care or noticeor even remember this brouhaha. I think it’s about his mom feeling hurt at being excluded from the public celebratory aspect of the dedication. That’s understandable but an adult would realize that there are rules for everything in this life (and in God’s Holy Word as well) and you can choose to abide by them or go your own way. Just don’t be mad at the rule. If the church has/had this rule before now…why do we think that it should be changed just for us?

  • MimiLuvs

    I am a believer of God, but not a follower of organized religion, so I don’t understand the “rules and guidelines” of the Christian churches.
    But I think that I understand why Ms. Grace is upset with the pastor’s decision.
    His decision reminds me of the old saying “We can’t hold hands while walking through the town square during noon, but I’ll be knocking on your backdoor around midnight”.
    To me, his decision is probably saying to Ms. Grace (and indirectly, to her son) that she is not really a part of the congregation. She can pay her tithes. She can donate to a church-sponsored cause. She could even put in the hours as a volunteer for church-sponsored charity drive. She could volunteer to help out at the church/help a parishioner of the church. But she is still not a member of the congregation.

    “…“What they could do for me is let my son get dedicated, during a week day with one of the elders of my choice,” said Grace.

    I mentioned before that I am not knowledgeable when it comes to organized, Christian religions. So can anyone explain to me what this statement mean? Does this mean that the pastor is willing to perform the service on a weekday? Or does this mean that someone else (but is ordained) is going to perform the ceremony?

  • http://clutchmagazine.com Felicia

    Let’s get this straight though, if she has repented ;means a change of mind then, she can get baptized in front of any congregation. Paul who wrote two thirds of the new testament was a murderer before his transformation/repentance. If this is not evident or she has not been forth coming whit a confession of repentance then the NEW TESTAMENT backs him on what he stands for. There is literally a scripture in the NEW TESTAMENT THAT SAYS, ‘If you know a Christian brother who is committing adultery, you should not even eat with them. This tells me there are some spiritual codes of conduct.

  • bubbly85

    So he shouldn’t accept tithes and offering since she is such a disgrace!

  • Those who live in glass houses……

    Give me friggin break!! You mean to tell me that it is o.k. to cast stones? Code of conduct? Seriously? Did he not judge that woman for having a child out of wedlock? You Christians will defend the dumbest ish!!!! This wasn’t about her – it was about her child being blessed/dedicated or whatever they call it now a days. (Look up the entire story – Clutch pretty much printed what they felt was necessary). He didn’t want to do it because he wanted to show HIS seed that he does not condone children born out of wedlock, which is why he has this church policy. So, now children born out of wedlock are a sin? Yet, aren’t Christians taught that they are born in sin? Make up your minds!!

  • http://mrsberry79.wordpress.com mrsberry79

    I was a single mother, and when the church secretary asked me if I wanted my son’s birth announced in the bulletin, I politely declined. Seriously, if this mother were so concerned about teaching her son the ways of God, she may want to address the fact that she did something “unlawful” and immoral in the eyes of God- according to scripture.

    Now that I have said that, I would like to also say to anyone who feels mistreated by good, godly church-going Christians. Guess what, they have sinned too. She needs to understand that (someone else pointed this out here) the child will not even remember this ridiculous public stunt of someone who cannot bless or curse her child in some display of religious ritual. What she needs to do is seek God’s honest pureness and find out what it really means to bless one’s child (can be done by the parents, you know). Bless them with love, respect, honor, obedience to uprightness. Bless them with an education, with insight into the imperfectness of man. Bless them with knowledge and power to defy stereotypes, bless them with stability (financial, physical, mental, spiritual), bless them with forgiveness and a true willingness to seek out that which is good and right.

    We are so insanely concerned about this public rights and rituals; these feelings of being wronged and mistreated, that we fail to realize that we have much more power. We often sign the power over to other people; this is what this woman is doing. She need not be upset about her son being denied a public dedication; she ought to thank the good preacher and realize that he, as a man- mere mortal, can neither bless nor curse her or her child. However, by her own actions and reacting to this “degrading and disrespectful” incident, she has given her and her son’s power away to people who will do nothing but trample gleefully because they could.

    ***Trust me, I have been there, done that, have an entire wardrobe dedicated to a decade spent in it. It is not worth her energy, intellect, or self-respect to dignify this beyond simple forgiveness and thankfulness that her son can receive any blessing she truly wants for her, the son’s father, and the families who surround the boy in love.

  • Those who live in glass houses……

    It means that he is selective ‘Christian’. If Jesus can walk through the town square, stop at a well, take a drink of water from a whore, bless her and tell her to sin no more, who the heck is he to say this about an innocent child that didn’t ask to brought into this world? And yes, I’m sure she probably does pay her tithes and offerings only to have this devil in preachers clothing embarrass her and her baby. Last I check, an unwed couple can both be up when the child is being dedicated, but the father cannot stand next to the mother and child – he is to stand behind them. And I saw this practice while in the Apostolic Pentecostal church that is the holies of holy church. And if they can embrace EVERYONE, who the heck is he to turn this mama away?

  • Susan

    If his congregation has any character at all, they will fire this man. He is a hypocrite and not fit for the ministry. How this child came into the world was not under his control. It is wrong to punish the child because his mother wasn’t married when she had him. If indeed the Christian bible really supports this, then it is dead wrong too and shouldn’t be followed.

  • Mmmgood

    The pastor probably won’t do the dedication, but one of the church elders–whomever she wants–will do it during a weekday

  • Those who live in glass houses……

    Thank you for that post. As a single mother, I was a head of the dance ministry at my church, a licensed Missionary, and the Youth directer – again, as a single mother, and Bishop never, ever, ever made me feel anything other than welcome. It’s a sad day when we turn people away. I don’t go to church anymore – seen to much of church leadership prostituting the word and their titles. I’m good worshiping the Creator at home. And freer to worship without limits. We have been so brainwashed into believing that we need MAN to bless us, dedicate us, and bring us closer to God. As far as I’m concerned, once that veil was torn, it gave us direct access to the Creator. We need to start learning how to reach him the way it was intended from the beginning. From a true place and not out of rituals.

  • listener

    I understand the hurt of the mother. Especially because the Bible says “suffer (make/allow) the children to come unto me because the Kingdom of heaven is like this”.

    However what I also understand is that the church, the Pastor, is within his right to uphold what he is convicted about. For example, a Pastor who does not perform the marriage of a christian with a non-christian is not being a hypocrite. He’s acting based on his beliefs and upon the word of God that Christians shouldn’t be unequally yoked.

    Further, the way my church is (which allows single-parent christening), you have to meet with/counsel with the Pastor before the act of christening- whether or not the parents are married. If she is a member of the church she should have known this was a policy before.

  • -A.

    we really need to stop shunning children for the mistakes of their parents. smh.

  • Hazel

    What is standard about this? I was a single mother. I stood in front of the church with my daughter and had her christened and almost no religion is more difficult than the Catholic religion. i wasn’t made to feel that I was inadequate or that my daughter was a bad decision. It’s not about “rules” when you want to know and love God. The church is the last place where a person should feel condemned. God said “come as you are”.

  • https://www.facebook.com/khadija.davis.14 Khadija Davis

    To Susan: Perfecting Ministries is Pastor Winans church. He cannot be fired. There is nothing in Christianity that supports his personal view, in fact, he should be doing the opposite. Unfortunately, these are the type of things that turn people away from the church. It’s a sad day when the church becomes too famous to serve the people.

  • Miss E

    I fail to understand why Christians who claim to fellow Christ behave more like the Pharisees he used criticize. People forget that Jesus Christ himself was conceived by an poor, unwed mother. Yes, out of all the women in the world that God could have chosen to be mother of his only begotten son, he chose an unwed virgin & that caused so much scandal that her fiance (Joseph) considered leaving her. I think ‘Pastor’ Winans should meditate on that.

  • Irene

    It is not the child’s fault for parents bad behavior. I think the Mother should be counseled but the blessing of the child should happen. The mother should see the error of her ways it seems to me that she was not even addressing that. That could be covered in counseling so that it possibly might not happen again.

  • http://www.survivingdating.com Deborrah Cooper

    I agree with him. Folks shouldn’t be doing everything that is listed under SINS and TEN COMMANDMENTS in the Bible, then wanting to be excused for intentionally making those choices. You knew you were fornicating when you did it. Not the pastor’s responsibility to condone those behaviors. But if you feel its wrong, just go to another church. Shrug.

  • MimiLuvs

    “…The mother should see the error of her ways it seems to me that she was not even addressing that.”

    I am going to assume that you are going by the Christian faith for this statement.

  • Dr C Armani Trosclair

    The question is who’s being left out the mother or the child, last I check Jesus said in Matthew 19:14…14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. So please tell me who is this really directed toward. Hell we all have a history. Not one of us is with out some type of known Sin. Again I say, Ms. Deborrah who is really being left out the mother or the child….

  • GeekMommaRants

    This is stupid. If these PIMPS would advocate for the family i.e. employment, family aid, etc. He would have solid ground to stand on. Since, no christian advocates for the family, this clown can kick rocks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/victoria.thomas.507027 Victoria Thomas

    jesus said suffer the children to come unto me and forbid them not. no stipulations.

  • http://gravatar.com/nolakiss16 binks

    AGREED! You summed it up perfectly! This is a hairy situation to say the least. I think what he is doing is a double edged sword. Because on its head it looks like he wants to shun out of wedlock births and deter it, at least in front of his congregation, but at the same time others are going to view it as the child getting punished for his parents’ sin. So this is a difficult situation because on one hand you shouldn’t judge and be open and loving but on the other you don’t want to co-sign behavior you don’t agree with, specially what doctrine don’t agree with, and send that message to others. However, I think there is a better way to address the OWW and the single parent household problem in our community and within the church. I do think this is a slippery slope and not the ideal situation because will ask “is he screening other members like he did this woman”? I do think the church needs to step up with more deterrence and get real with a lot of problems plaguing our community. To me this situation is how some people feel with teen mothers and attending baby showers, I know a lot of people who will NOT go to a baby shower but will send the baby a gift in private or the day of/after the shower because they don’t support baby showers of teen moms.

  • TheTruth

    The son is not being denied. He could come during the weekday. the policy does not exclude the son. The mother made a mistake and wants to be treated just like everyone else. life never works like that. Choices have consequences

  • http://www.facebook.com/ms.arcarter Adrianne Carter

    Wow. Are they not Gods children

  • GodFearing

    So because of the child’s mothers decision the child is unable to receive being blessed? What kind of mess…these sorts of traditional religious rituals are what give the church a bad name. Pastor Winas may need to take a break, repent and try it again, God’s way not the Winas way!!!!! Sorry that mother had to go through that…that could have been a divine day of her deliverance seeing her child get blessed could have brought them both a blessing to have a God fearing father and husband in their lives….way to go Pastor Winas…may God forgive your ignorance

  • Dana Pointer

    right, so what’s the problem??

  • GodFearing

    Thank God people are not God and God is God….I serve a God of second chances……this big time pastors make it so big, I think they forget the Holy Spirit calls the shots!!!

  • MimiLuvs

    @Dana Pointer

    “right, so what’s the problem??”

    I am going to guess that the problem is the fact that the Pastor will not perform the dedication ceremony. An elder of the church will perform the ceremony instead.
    Not the pastor, who is the “figurehead” of the church. The person who holds a highly-esteemed role in the church.
    The action which kind of screams “You’re unworthy” in my opinion.

  • http://mrsberry79.wordpress.com mrsberry79

    I had hoped others would understand where I was coming from with that. I, too, no longer attend a church, but I still believe and try to live as rightly and honestly as possible. Right on, my sister!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/kristen.allen.961 Kristen Allen

    Terrible… Black churches and the parasites/leaches that preside over them- preachers, First Ladies, deacons, deaconesses and so called saints really suck!!! So much for Christianity…

  • SMCD

    What Would Jesus Do?

  • https://www.facebook.com/thornefielder Cherl Thorne-Fielder

    wow…so the Mother sinned so she should expect to be treated like dirt in the house of the LORD…well what pray ye kind of treatment do the OTHER sinners get in the most Righteous Rev Winans church??? I have sinned but so the ONE place where I expect forgiveness and no judging…is treating me like a dirty little secret…smh @ trying to figure out how to get to heaven w/o a pastor!!!

  • emme

    I hate the fact that the church and society always finds a way to penalize and shame black women. According to society single mothers are ruining the black community and now apparently raising children unfit to be blessed before the church. Basically saying to these kids “you don’t have the right pedigree”. No one says anything to the men (young and old) who have fathered children out of wedlock. You will never hear the term “unwed father” used. Or hear that “unwed fathers are not capable of raising their kids alone”. These men can get up in the pulpit, run the choir, the singles ministry and even preach the word of God to a megachurch congregation. Yet let a woman who is only trying to do the right thing by her family come forward and she gets shamed and turned away. Jesus said I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. …no where in the bible is pastor Winans mentioned. My suggestion….find a church home that will support you 100% in your spiritual walk and one that will recognize when you have fallen and will help you to your feet instead of kick dirt in your face.

  • http://northchurchblog.wordpress.com northchurchblog

    My name is Rev. Barrett Lee and I am the pastor of North Presbyterian Church in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Far be it for me to speak ill of one of my brothers in ministry, but what Pastor Winans did was pastorally harmful and biblically incorrect. Listen to these words from Matthew 18:1-6 –

    “At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” He called a child, whom he put among them, and said, “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever becomes humble like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

    “If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if a great millstone were fastened around your neck and you were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of stumbling blocks! Occasions for stumbling are bound to come, but woe to the one by whom the stumbling block comes!”

    And this, from the very next chapter, Matthew 19:13-15 –
    “Then little children were being brought to him in order that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples spoke sternly to those who brought them; but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them; for it is to such as these that the kingdom of heaven belongs.” And he laid his hands on them and went on his way.”

    Pastor Winans is called to preach the good news of Jesus Christ to the people God loves, not to pass judgment on the sins of others.

    I would humbly suggest that Pastor Winans reconsider his position on this issue and seek forgiveness from Ms. Charity Grace.

  • Courtney Rider (CCR6015)

    No one has called this mom any sort of those names. You might be reading too much into this. I think that the church’s choice was exactly that…their choice. Agree or disagree, it isn’t up to us. it’s up to that congregation to accept those rules (which since that’s been in place for a while, I assume they did) or they make their feelings known to the leadership and things will change. But either way, having a separate service for children born out-of-wedlock doesn’t punish the child at all. After all, he’s 2 years old. He won’t know why he’s there or remember it later in life. Is this about the child anymore or are well all projecting our own feelings of being ‘ashamed about something’ into this? That goes for the mom too. She said she’s never felt so ~degraded and disrespected~? How? By being told that she didn’t meet the rules, but could still have her child dedicated to GOD in a different ceremony? And then goes to the news station to tell the whole world about it? ….sure, yeah…

  • emme

    EXACTLY! She should write on her check on the memo line or on the envelope “I am an unwed mother….do not cash” LOL!

  • dan

    No matter if he does it in private or public he is still only blessing the child. Just because the mother is standing there in front of a congregation doesn’t mean that he is blessing her sin.

  • Diontae Matthews

    I think everyone is missing the part where it says the baby can still be blessed. As a teenage member of Perfecting Church I can account that we are taught to remain pure, and I don’t know what effect it would have on teenage members like myself to parade a unmarried woman with kids in front of us. No one is judging her, just doing that wouldn’t line up with what is being taught in the children’s ministry.

  • Elder Brotha

    Before we condemn Pastor Winans to the lake of fire, lets make sure his so-called policy wasn’t misinterpreted by an ignorant church official who spoke without true understanding of whatever policy is out there… HOWEVER, if it turns out that’s Brotha Winans actual thought, now we know why he got jumped at the gas station awhile back… #imjustsayin’

  • noirluv45

    When the woman was caught in adultery and the Pharisees were going to stone her, He told them, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” (examine your own heart). He then looked at that woman and said, “Where are your accusers?” She received His forgiveness, and He told her, “Go and sin no more.”

    I guess the point I am making is that if HE can forgive, then who are WE not to forgive. This child should not be hidden because his parents sinned. Blessing the child doesn’t mean he’s accepting fornication. Just my opinion.

  • Velociraptor

    …and this is why I have no desire to be a part of any church. I still believe in God as my personal savior but I don’t see myself being the member of a church any time soon.

  • K. J. F.

    I used to love Marv; but, he’s crossed over the line. He should ask himself WWJD, because Jesus loved children. Furthermore, to hold children, who have no say so in the kind of life their parent(s) choose to live, is just not a very accepting Christian attitude. If he’s not gonna bless someone in front of the congregation, it should be the sinner not the child, who is the product of the parental choice to sin. The child did not sin.

  • SH

    But what he’s doing and what you’re saying doesn’t line up with the word of GOD and that’s what church is supposed to be all about! This could create a inferior complex in this child by being set apart and for all you guys know GOD could’ve put that child here to save a multitude of his people and this one act could possibly derail his future. This is religious bullying…

  • K.C.

    How is she being paradedn if her son is being blessed? Maybe you should read a Bible and compare that to what you are being taught. Because trust me God covers that boy AND his Mother every day and a man of God would not blink twice to bless either one of them.

  • Dawn

    Who would attend such a church? Apparently this guy doesn’t understand the teachings of the Prince of Peace.

  • Ciel

    Are you kidding me? What that so-called pastor did was wrong. If God would bless her and her child despite their circumstances at present, then Winans should have done the same. Within the two years, she could have repented and that would have been between her and the Lord. But for Winans to call himself “instilling” values, all he’s doing is turning people away from The Lord and/or showing his true colors as a pastor.

    Did he judge her? YES or that child would have been dedicated. He has no right to discriminate against aligned with the Word.

  • Dawn

    How do we know she “sinned?” What if she had been raped and instead of aborting the child understood that the child had not committed any crime? This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

  • S. Richards

    I think it would be best to hear from Pastor Winans, himself. I infact, had a child out of wedlock and was treated totally the opposite. The church sent flowers to my hospital bedside.

    The church continues to give love to my family.

  • Lya

    I am a single mother. I am an Atheist. I do agree with the pastor. I feel that society is almost glorifying single parenthood. I have one child and I would never have another one with out being married. It is a tough road. It is also stressful for the child. My daughter’s father want nothing to do with her. Yet she still loves him. She wants him in her life. There should be consequences for making mistakes. We need to stop having children with out the commitment of marriage. It is not a guarantee but it is the most responsible thing that a parent can do for their child.

  • Pastor T

    Children are a blessing from our Heavenly Father! We (Pastors or anyone for that matter) should not refuse to bless a child in front of the congregation, regardless of the reasons or circumstances. What did the child do??? There we go again, thinking it’s our Church and the Church belongs to Jesus…and when I read my Holy Bible, Jesus never turned children away – as a matter of fact Jesus said, “for as such is the Kingdom of Heaven.” Matthew 19:14

    Now this young lady has been damage by Church rules, regulations, policies, and doctrine that are contrary to the ways of our Lord Jesus! WWJD??? Lord Jesus help us to be the men and woman of God you want us to be!

    PRAYER:
    Lord Jesus show us how to display your love, your compassion, and your power in every situation – whether within the church or outside the church and forgive us when we missed the mark and cause others to stumble – in your name in pray, Amen.

  • Have Compassion

    I love how hypocritical, judgmental “Christians” pick and choose which biblical idea they want to follow. The last I checked, having a baby out of wedlock was part of the Ten Commandments, but yet, plenty, if not all so-called Christian has broken the prophesied word of God, which are God’s stated, unequivocal rules on how to live.

    Example 1: “Thou shalt not steal.” A lot of Christians are stealing or have stolen something at one point in your life. Even asking your friend for a hook-up for a good price at a store is stealing because it’s not yours to have at that hook-up or five-finger discount price.

    Example 2: “Thou shalt honor thy mother and father.” Some Christians aren’t even speaking to their mother or father for whatever reason and/or are disrespectful to them. That’s not honoring them.

    Example 3: “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” Do I need to call some of ya’ll out, knowing damn well he/she is married and you hooked up anyway. I’m talking about hypocritical Christians, of course.

    Example 4: “Thou shalt not covet your neighbor’s” whatever… Some of these Christians are trying to keep up with the Jones and/or are hating on the Jones. That’s called coveting.

    I don’t need to list anymore examples. I think I made my point. But it grinds my gears when I see mostly male preachers finding ways to continually put women down from the pulpit, when it’s women, wed or unwed, sinning or not, that are filling up the pews and coffers. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you, and when women stand up together and call these male egos out, a change will come.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sharon.townsend.58 Sharon Townsend

    This gives Christians a bad rep. The child is blameless.The children are the future leaders in our churches. They will be teaching, preaching and praising long after some are gone.

  • Ms. Sennie

    Wasn’t Mary, the mother of Jesus, an unwed mother? #enoughsaid

  • naan

    but the blessing of the child is not about the mother. it is about blessing the child. it is about welcoming the child into the religious community and setting him up to prosper by informing him about the “straight path”. the action taken by the church shames and isolates the child more than it shames the mother.

  • naan

    OMG! please send your cup of tea to the news reporter with all of the details! PLEASE!! i want to see THAT story!

  • SE

    @ Lya

    You do know that people break up, get divorced right? Marriage is not guaranteed. One minute you could be in love, then 10, 15 years later, it could be over with and your ex husband wouldn’t want to be apart of his child’s life. That scenario can still happen regardless. Nothing in life is guaranteed. You never know what life is going to throw you. And people are finicky too. People’s moods/behaviors change daily.

  • 9Boots

    Please do not compare the VIRGIN Mary that was anointed by the LORD to conceive a child via immaculate conception to a person that chose to disobey her LORD and fornicate.

  • Mother Jackson

    Pastor Winans didn’t tell her that…. A church official said that. There is a difference between what a Pastor says and what church folks say.

  • http://Facebook Lynelle Leblanc

    Lady you are STUPID??? Oh YES !!!!! that child shouldn’t have to suffer for your dum decisions and that’s putting it mildly….

  • SE

    @ geenababe

    Omg I just finished watching that episode like an hour ago lol. I recorded it on Monday but didn’t get a change to watch it until today. Yeah they had me feeling some type of way too. Especially during Whitney Houston’s funeral. He was a mess to me.

  • Sis. Tired of church foolishness

    Pastor Winans is so full of himself that he is an embarrassment to his family….I would not be surprised if he is gay…..who died and made him God. He is an entertainer, and need to sit down somewhere. God is exposing all these Pastors that are living double lives, and He does NOT care about their popularity.

  • https://www.facebook.com/DaGoddessRec Rennent

    You know what’s so funny? People who still go to Church after the fact. You want to know what else is funny? People who pay their tithes who are unwed and single mothers. That to me is funny. REFUND PLEASE

  • https://www.facebook.com/DaGoddessRec ab’Orisha Collease Rennent

    Hell ain’t that what Jeezus died for?

  • watchoutmomshome

    In our small thinking and self righteous humanity…in our desperation to find something wrong about others so we can make ourselves right, we are too lazy to really read for understanding and we are too afraid to reach out and feel the love of God. So we project our flaws onto God and say stupid stuff like: “He is a jealous God” or “He is an angry God” and we misinterpret the scripture to mean that we have the right to ostracize and judge…(which is really a way of invoking the enemy) Lord, help us in our unbelief. If we trust Him to provide for our needs, (Jehovah Nissi) and we trust Him to bring us Peace (Jehovah Shalom) and we ask him to heal us of our infirmities (Jehovah Rophe) we betta trust Him to create a kingdom so great, so beautiful and so glorious that the request for mercy and redemption for an innocent baby is always met with grace. Yall can come for me all day, but its ALL Love. Just try for a minute to understand what motivated Jesus, and HOW he accomplished those miracles, and you would really question anyone who was unwilling to channel the Holy Spirit.

  • https://www.facebook.com/bridget.cash Bridgett Cash

    Wow.

  • au napptural

    This guy is friends with Eddie Long #done.

  • 9Boots

    How about the congregation stop fornicating and start obeying their LORD.

  • 9Boots

    @ Have Compassion

    Every person has sinned The point is to repent. Stop doing the sin and stop condoning it. Deflecting to other sins does not solve the problem.

  • 9Boots

    Please do not compare the VIRGIN Mary that was anointed by the LORD to conceive a child via immaculate conception to a person that chose to disobey her LORD and fornicate.

  • 9Boots

    Please do not compare the VIRGIN Mary that was anointed by the LORD to conceive a child via immaculate conception to a person that chose to disobey her LORD and fornicate.

  • Tina L

    True. I once attended a church where they pulled a soloist in the young adult choir when she became pregnant but her child’s father remained prominently seated at the front of the church as part of the pastor’s security team. That was the beginning of the end for me with that church.

  • lisa

    I went through this thirty years ago as a teen mom . I was pregnant and came in from the world I did not know anything about Jesus. After altar call I was informed that even though I was saved I was still a disgrace in Gods eyes because I was an unwed mom and that my child could not be saved because he was out of wedlock..But i thought pastor winans had a child out of weslock too

  • Jey

    9 boots…there is no comparison. However…it is true Jesus had a stepfather. Not everyone believed she was highly favored…it took people of great faith to acknowledge that!

  • Have Compassion

    …having a baby out of wedlock was NOT part of the Ten Commandments…

    Sorry, I was typing so fast I left a key word out… this issue had me cross-eyed when I first say it.

  • 9Boots

    The issue is about fornicating. Rape is a sin and takes away a person’s right to consent. Therefore it is not fornicating and there is no judgement against the mother nor child. A child conceived in a marriage that ends in divorce is not an out of wed lock child. Abortion is not condoned by God. The Pastor does not want to condone/promote doing things out of order which would be pre marital sex and having children out of wed lock. No the baby should not be aborted. Yes, the child is a blessing but unfortunately this situation leads to confusion and chaos and that is what the Pastor is trying not to condone.

  • 9Boots

    Please do not compare the VIRGIN Mary that was anointed by the LORD to conceive a child via immaculate conception to a person that chose to disobey her LORD and fornicate.

  • 9Boots

    The million dollar question is……When is the so called black church going to stop disobeying their LORD and quit the fornicating?

    Why do you call Me, Lord, Lord, and do not [practice] what I tell you? For everyone who comes to Me and listens to My words [in order to heed their teaching] and does them, I will show you what he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid a foundation upon the rock; and when a flood arose, the torrent broke against that house and could not shake or move it, because it had been securely built or [a]founded on a rock. But he who merely hears and does not practice doing My words is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation, against which the torrent burst, and immediately it collapsed and fell, and the breaking and ruin of that house was great.

    Luke 6:46-49

    Blessed are those who wash their robes. They will be permitted to enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life. 15 Outside the city are the dogs—the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.

    Revelation 22:14-15

    Go. From now on sin no more.
    John 8-11

  • https://www.facebook.com/mookit305 Michael Anthony Taylor

    Mary was not seen in that way.

  • 9Boots

    The big elephant in the room. The million dollar question….When is the so called black church going to stop disobeying their LORD and stop the fornicating?

    Why do you call Me, Lord, Lord, and do not [practice] what I tell you? For everyone who comes to Me and listens to My words [in order to heed their teaching] and does them, I will show you what he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid a foundation upon the rock; and when a flood arose, the torrent broke against that house and could not shake or move it, because it had been securely built or [a]founded on a rock. But he who merely hears and does not practice doing My words is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation, against which the torrent burst, and immediately it collapsed and fell, and the breaking and ruin of that house was great.

    Luke 6:46-49

    Blessed are those who wash their robes. They will be permitted to enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life. 15 Outside the city are the dogs—the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.

    Revelation 22:14-15

    Go. From now on sin no more.
    John 8-11

  • K.A.

    Even though he has the legal right to refuse the person, this just seems absolutely disgusting and abhorrent behavior. However, this type of hypocrisy from the church is not surprising. Please go to another church that is more accepting. Isn’t there something about accepting everyone in the bible?

  • marisa

    un-holy

  • Conrad

    Let ye without sin cast the first stone! So many claim to walk in Gods light and be anointed by Him to bring the masses to His light but are only hypocrits who are not worthy to judge! Jesus died for our original sin and to open the gates of heaven to all who follow. We are human and we All make mistakes. A child is worthy of Gods love at all times!! Do not deny Gods blessings upon that child for the sins of their parents. Instead, embrace the child and show that child a better way! Shame on you Pastor Winans!!! Shame on you..

  • https://www.facebook.com/evelyn.pinkard Evelyn Pinkard

    Their building that big church on Woodward and Seven Mile. SHAME ON YOU pastor Winan, SHAME ON YOU. I WOULD NEVER SET FOOT IN IT!!!! Some churches judge you the most.

  • Jey

    Hmmmm…how many abortions did you have? That was mean!

  • J. Charles Carrington, Jr

    I do not believe that Bishop Winans was denying the blessing of the child. He seemed to be celebrating those who were dedicating children birthed within wedlock. The church d I es dedicate/bless children birn out of wedlock, just not in the same manner.

    Regarding JESUS dying for our original sin; sin is sin. HE never delineated between original, occassional, perpetual, intentional, nor unintentional.

    GOD’S Love and Grace, the outpour of HIS love, will never be subject to private interpretation nor religious acts.

    I am confident that Bishop Winans will do the correct thing.

  • Jey

    Funty!

  • Lynn

    Ms. Smith,

    I am so grateful for your comment. The need for correction without condemnation really does get at the heart of it. I’ve been sifting through the comments trying to get at my own feelings and I keep coming back to “I see both sides.” I won’t leave a long post because I think you said it so well. But I constantly struggle with knowing that we all sin and at the same time believing that as Christians, we’re not supposed to be at peace with sin, to welcome it into our midst and place it alongside the things we celebrate. Thanks again for your heartfelt post.

  • Jey

    Question for you…how would you feel if someone excluded you like you were not worthy enough to be seen with them in public only in private? Wouldn’t you feel used? Hmmm….No…I’ll wait.

  • Jey

    I don’t know what you’ve been taught or what planet you’re from but…to do something DIFFERENT when she wanted her Pastor and the church to BLESS her child ( the same as everyone) is simply…FAVORITISM…and…EXCLUSION! Did The Lord God not say that He is NOT a respecter of persons?

  • https://www.facebook.com/theresa.hickman.7 Theresa Hickman

    exactly! We all know about his son born out of wedlock. does the same rule apply to him?

  • so what stand up

    I’m sorry but I’m 38 and no children. I would like to get married and have children. we make having kids without marry the man so easy and we need to stop and think about the children. If you want to lay up with men you should protect yourself. And if that man fail to be with you then you should blame yourself. I promise once my father let me down and the hurt not having him around to kiss me knee and rub my head or spank me. I said that I would not go out and have a child unless I was married to the father my father let me down and I will not let my children down..black folks we are not back in the day. black women we need to stand up and say that we are better then to just become a baby moma or father we need to become more than a babydaddy or a sperm donor. we need to uplift our familes and take care of our children. we need to know that once you go to jail and thay child is left alone with the mother to end back up with the same type of man and that child will end up just like the father. your children grade would be better and the way of life is just better. 1st we slaved for the whites then they put crack on the streets in the 80′s and now look at the world either they are cracked or in jail.. no I feel that they young lady should look at her life and say I have this child and I would like to better in my life and from this day on not a soul could tell me what to do with my life and my children and no I dont want or need foodstamps I will stand up and raise my children and not become a single parent over and over again …

  • Ads

    @the Truth – the mother IS just like everybody else!! I’ve walked past hungry people n didnt stop to give them a dollar or a meal. Ive had family in jail and failed to visit them. I’ve talked shit behind friends’ backs. But since my sin isn’t visible i dont have to suffer consequences?? Please

  • 9Boots

    @ Have Compassion

    Having a child out of wed lock is the byproduct of sin. It also is not the LORD’s will. the LORD’s will is for marriage then sex then the baby, however the LORD does not condone abortion. The point is that promoting/condoning having out of wed lock children is not The LORD’s will and it is causing to much chaos and confusion. The child can be blessed privately. Let me remind you that Moses was not allowed to enter into the Promised Land. Miriam was stricken with leprosy for seven days because she disrespected Moses. Numbers 20 and Numbers 12. There are consequences to disobeying The LORD and sometimes we don’t always get to participate in everything.

  • Jey

    The Church has very little time left to get right. This was not a wise move on the behalf of Winans to exclude such a person. No matter how you try and spin it people…God is NOT pleased by excluding His Child! The good thing about it is Winans does NOT have the Sovereign Power to bless or curse her child anyway. What people on here who are co-signing for his foible…need to comprehend is that he hurt this woman and possibly killed her spirit! I hope not. I never liked him to begin with…and this is why. We are living in the Last Days and we need to save as many of the lost as we can…Winans has just screwed up our witness a little bit more.

    However…I am confident that the God I serve doesn’t need him anymore, now that He sees He cannot trust Winans with what was obviously a test to see if he is real about This Walk. God knows who is fake and phony waaaay before we ever will!

    Again…we are running of time! I am tell you scary ( Yes Passa) Christians and that Winans dude to Get Right or Get Left!

  • Jey

    What the hell are you talking about? You’re not better than anybody that chooses to have their baby even without a ring…with that attitude…no one is going to want to marry you! Standards are good…but they are honorable when you have compassion.

  • 9Boots

    Obviously Jesus had a step father. Bottom line..no sin involved with Mary.

  • Ads

    I have cum laude degree in theology with concentrations in abrahamoc scripture and liberation theology- Jesus loved and welcomed adulterers, tax collectors (seen as colluding with the enemy Rome), and those whom society deemed unclean. Who He constantly strove to ‘correct’ and show the true path were the self righteous pharisees – religious leaders who presumed they were holy and had no need to be humble before God, the sin of presuming themselves sinless, while they looked down on others. If you look at any of the parables on the prodigal zone or lost sheep, you will see that Jesus and His Father delighted in bringing those gone astray back into the fold.

  • Humanista

    Knotty, EVERY church would be completely empty if sins of the congregation were called out. Not just black churches, ALL churches. …HE wouldn’t even be preaching, considering his own sins.

    Another example of how people are so unworthy. We like to pick and choose after God has made it perfectly clear that all of our sins are the same.

  • Ads

    @9 boots – and if a properly wed, chaste mother denied food to the hungry, shelter to homeless, if she didnt go sell all her belongings and give them to the poor, should her child receive a blessing? Or is fornication not to be condoned, but failing to love the poor, which Jesus beseeches us constantly, fine? Are we to assume the rest of these parents are sinless? Cuz to my understanding only Jesus and Mary fit that bill.

  • Ads

    Exactly @ glass houses – every single parent of every single child deemed worthy of dedication before the congregation has sinned. Every member of the congregation including the pastor has sinned and will do so again. The hypocrisy and failure to follow thr most basic commandment, love others as i have loved u, is shameful

  • Humanista

    How far does this go, I wonder? He won’t even bless blameless children. who have ZERO control over how they came into this life, among the other children!…What about baptisms? What about adults who want to get saved? Does he ask about the status of their parents’ relationships before agreeing to say the prayer with them in front of the congregation? I bet he takes everyone’s tithes in the same basket.

    This is just disgusting. The Church can’t keep turning people away from God by acting evilly “in God’s name”.

  • Huh?

    I don’t know what you’ve been smoking but you are all over the place with that comment. But seriously, get off of your high horse.

  • Huh?

    I hate to tell you this, but my parents were married and in love when I was born. Then 5 years later my dad decided fatherhood wasn’t for him and left. Commitment of marriage means absolutely nothing.

  • http://Tenishajonece.com Tenisha Jonece

    Children are a gift from the LORD; they are a reward from him. Psalm 127:3 It doesn’t matter who the child came from or the circumstances. Every child is a gift from God and deserves to be blessed. You know what, I don’t care if this bum doesn’t want to bless a child. The child is already blessed by God. BOOM!

  • precious

    Wow….. they say that church you are welcomed all the time. As an child who looked up to him living with a single mother forget him and don’t go back

  • https://www.facebook.com/reptyle216 Brad Johnson

    “Christian compassion” at work I see. This is ridiculous. Regardless of what he thinks about the mother, it’s not like the kid had any say in the matter.

  • Tammy

    Jesus won’t bless him either. He is not a Pastor, but a condemning control freak.

  • naan

    exactly! the women over the phone judged the woman without even knowing her situation. all she knew was the mother was unwed. that’s it!

  • Rez

    Doesn’t surprise me one bit. The Christians are the most hypocritical organization on the planet. You should investigate to find out what they think about children with special needs and whether they belong in the childrens ministry. I was basically told to leave my child at home when I came, but they didn’t tell me not to put money in the collection plate. Wonder how many woman Pastor Winans had sex with out of wedlock before he became a “man of God”. Bet he’ll never cop to that!

  • Ken

    Thank You Shavonne! One of the most reasoned response on this string. I’m weary of former Christians, non practicing Christians and non believers trying to interpret scripture to suit their own conveniences. This is an event and an issue that should be dealt with by the Church and has no place in that unbelieving population. However, when the Church has become so diminished that it can no longer take a stand articulated in scripture and instead becomes a mere sounding board for outside influences, then it is of no value in the world. If people want to take moral and ethical positions contrary to the tenants of Christian theology, then stay out of the Church! Don’t join and enjoy your life but stop trying to peddle your own opinions as if they were reflective of what was “really” intended in sacred scripture. I doubt this woman and her child were denied a sacrament; however, and appropriately so it was not performed publically as to condone her behavior. People on here are pulling out the scripture about Christ bidding the children to come to him…not appropriate in this case because the children he was referring to made conscious decisions to seek after him after seeing him out of their childhood innocence and faith unspoiled by adult skepticism, doubt, and insincerity; they recognized Christ on their own and He acknowledged that in a most profound way by accepting them into the Kingdom. I don’t believe this was the case at Pastor Marvin’s church…this wasn’t even about the child but rather about the mother and the consequences of her behavior; yes, there are still consequences for illicit behavior if you choose to be a part of a legitimate Christian assembly; this goes for practicing Christians and leaders as well; the mature Christian doesn’t excuse himself or others by mudding up scriptures but accepts correction and moves on with life…if you don’t plan on immersing yourself in the Christian faith leave the scriptural interpreting to the people who choose to subject themselves to it

  • Mari

    I’m referring to the other commentators remarking about the “impurity” of the mother (for having a child OOW) and the implicit bias towards unwed women w/kids. Obviously nobody called her a “floozy ho” verbatim, I ain’t blind :-l

  • REYSHEL

    CHRISTIANITY’S BIGGEST ACCOMPLISHMENT IS CREATING MILLIONS OF HYPOCRITES.

  • REYSHEL

    HOW MANY CHRISTIANS FORNICATE EVERYDAY, THEN GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY?? THE CHILD HAS TO PAY THE PRICE EVEN THOUGH HE WASN’T BORN BY CHOICE? GOOD JOB.

  • JoAnne F Henry

    More bad theology… in fact what is his theological grounding for making such a policy?
    Did he even go to seminary? The old folks used to have a name for this kind of foolery that said it all…”Jackleg Preacher!”– meaning no real educational background to do this calling. Most mainline churches require a professional degree to undergird your call to ministry where you have scholarly classes in Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, Theology including before and after the Reformation, Preaching, Liturgy, and some require Hebrew and Greek as well. Used to be that churches and many black churches could proudly point to their leadership both ordained and laypeople as learned persons practicing a spiritual path sometimes making mistakes but on the journey with their flock…now not as much….smh. And yes I graduated from a mainline but not exactly mainstream seminary with two degrees…MiDiv/MA.

  • jacqueline coury

    This is a child of Gods.. He loves this child. This Pastor is wrong, this is shameful.

  • joy

    How dare he.who is he to judge anyone. Some of these pastors have really gotten above theirselves and have forgotten the reason they were called to minister. Ministry equals service

  • Kamron

    Everyone is so concerned with the sin and rightfully so; but it’s obvious to me that many of you do not care for the souls of people. You don’t care for the spirit of this young lady. I don’t know Marvin, but I can’t help but wonder what he and his team are doing to combat the issue of premarital sex in “his church”.

    Don’t send the babies of these men and women somewhere to blessed privately and hide behind lame excuses as to why you are doing it in the first place. Bless that child publicly because babies are gifts from the Lord. No at some point pull all these people aside and explain to them the ramifications of their actions. Equip them with the Word of God; work to instill in them morals, values, love and acceptance of self. Don’t shun these individuals and make them feel like cast-aways.

    How much longer will the church continue to isolate and abandon God’s children.

    If you are going to do the wok of the Lord then you need to have a heart for the people of God. You need to possess the capacity to love them – even when you don’t agree with them.

    If Marvin isn’t personally doing anything to curb the rate of men and women engaging in premarital sex and having babies then he needs to stop perpetrating.

  • Kamron

    Some of you will follow a “pastor” right off a cliff if that’s where he’s leading you. Smh.

  • Sunshine

    Ok I may be alone here but I re-read it again to make sure it says ” a church official told her Pastor Winans’ policy is that he doesn’t bless children of unwed mothers in front of his congregation”.. Now with that in mind it doesn’t say the Pastor himself said it .. it said someone else told her. Now giving the Pastor the benefit of the doubt that could have been someone speaking on behalf of him and may have possibly misspoke. If that is the Pastor’s policy than I can’t agree with that. Jesus told the disciples not to denied children ” Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matt 19:14. That child( whose innocent) nor the mother should be held because of her past no one should be made to feel like that!

  • Acocoprncess

    What’s even sadder is when churches become so popular that that the congregation become groupies following the leader of the church blindly rather then reading and understanding for themselves. When you lack compassion you lack one of the most fundamental concepts of biblical truth.

  • Acocoprncess

    So “policy” trumps sound biblical teaching? “I understand the hurt of the mother. Especially because the Bible says “suffer (make/allow) the children to come unto me because the Kingdom of heaven is like this” . ” he’s acting on his belief” Most of this reply are your words. Maybe you should re-read your post and understand how it does not “equal” out.

  • http://gravatar.com/yesimthatleah Yes, I’m That Leah

    He has a serious problem.

  • tasha Smith

    this is truly nt a man of god.God warned us of false profits smh

  • angel

    The true church is to be like Christ. Making up rules that are not aligned with God’s word is wrong. Does Pastor Winans refuse to pray over unsaved people in front of the congregation during an alter call? SMH

    Jesus Blesses the Children

    (Matthew 19:13-15; Mark 10:13-16)

    15And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

  • Sf

    My child was blessed in a church, however; that was for tradition purposes. My faith and trust is in God to provide my blessings not man. I hope this mother understands that God is in authority to provide blessings. Her son is blessed to have Jesus as his Savior.

  • Miss E

    @ 9 Boots: No one is comparing Jesus’ mothers to ‘fornicators’. We are just making the point that God decided to let his son be born to a virgin who was poor, homeless & unwed & he did that to drive home the point that God loves the very people that society despises & he doesn’t send away those who come to him-broken & needing love. See, when Jesus blessed the children in the Bible, he didn’t call out only those born ‘in wedlock’ & bless them did he? No, he blessed ALL of the children & that is what Pastor Marvin should have done. I will always say that the Pastors & Christians of today act just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ time. Jesus came to embrace the outcasts in society. That is why he hung out with prostitutes & tax collectors & ate at their homes. How many pastors today have eaten dinner in the house of a prostitute before? In Jesus’ genealogy (Matthew 1), the only 3 women mentioned were all judged as ‘sinners’ in the society they lived in- Rahab (desised as a prostitute), Ruth (considered as a pagan) & Bathsheba (viewed as an adulterer). What’s more, the first person Jesus appeared to after the resurrection was a former demon possessed woman (Magdalene). The point is this, judge not. But in this case, if we’re to judge, then judgment must start from the shepherd- in this case Pastor Winans. Guess what? He’s divorced. & while Jesus didn’t say ONE word about children born outside wedlock, he did say that anyone who divorces for any reason but adultery, IS an adulterer! So what does that make our dear Pastor Winans if we’re to go strictly by the Bible? See why no one should judge?

  • http://www.unclechrischildrensentertainer.co.uk/about.html Chris @ Childrens Entertainer

    Shameful, I wouldn’t even attend his church and listen to his silly speeches.

  • OnnOn

    At the end of the day only GOD can give a true blessing. If GOD can forgive, who are we not to. Im so sad for Pastor Winans. This is an example of why the church is in so much turmoil. The crazy part about this is he’s leading s flock…Jesus healed sinners… im just saying

  • Templeton Finn

    Blaming a child for the parents “sin”. How very biblical of you.

  • http://Betty riversidegraduate

    It was either his son or one of the silbling son who stole big bucks from people. Now, the pastor refuse to bless children from unwed mothers, but at the same time his son/nepfew STOLE money and I bet he sits in the congregation!! He better stop this mess or else the cloth in the collection plates will be the tithes!!

  • steph

    it may not seem fair but its right pastor winans isnt ashamed or judging her, its that he dont want other young teenagers thinking its ok to have a baby out of wedlock or being unmarried

  • https://www.facebook.com/monica.calavera Monica Faye

    It’s more disturbing that anyone believes this jerk has the power to bless their children or anything else.

  • anon

    It is unbiblical for the lady and the other preacher to act in the ways they acted. If you ask me, this is just trying to put some dirt on pastor Winans to put him in wrong daylight and they, the other lady n pastor are hungry for attention. What difference does is make if your child is blessed for peoples eyes or not for the child? No difference at all. What difference does is make when before peoples eyes it is deemed as something accepted and okay, because that’s what your indirectly saying when blessing a child out of wedlock. A HUGE difference because there are those that than will say; see, it’s okay/accepted so I’m also gonna do that… think about it.

  • http://gravatar.com/princess299 princess charles

    made a mistake there your comment are so true we tend to think that if we don’t go to church we don’t get blessed and that is far from the truth.

  • http://gravatar.com/elogam elogam

    This story need more details. WHY is she not married? Divorce? Death? Did she never marry the father? Death of the father should not play into this, Divorce MIGHT. But If she had this child out of wedlock-a sin-then the church would be remiss in ‘celebrating’ her choice. 1 Corinthians 5 talks about not celebrating people in the church who are-among other things-caught up in immorality. Actions have consequences. The fact of the matter is they offered her an accommodation to have her child blessed by a deacon mid-week. Is she more interested in the blessing or the public adulation and attention that comes from the Sunday blessing? She needs to check her attitude.

  • http://gravatar.com/elogam elogam

    Nobody is “blaming” the child. They offered to bless the child, just not during the Sunday ceremony. This woman wants public adulation and she isn’t going to get it. That is vanity

  • moddy

    Pastor Winans has to realize that the Creator is the one and only one who can judge you Bless the child

  • Colonel

    you ignorant fool.. is it the child’s fault that he was born out of wedlock, does that make him less human or make the other children somewhat better than him??

    Ezekiel 18:20
    “The soul that sinneth , it shall die . The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.”

    BTW.. I’m a muslim

  • https://www.facebook.com/linda.horton.12 Linda Horton

    Didn’t Jesus bless the woman who was almost stoned for prostitution????
    OK, Throw the stone Pastor Marvin Winans

  • Anon

    Jesus, in front of a crowd forgave Mary the prostitute from her sins not secretly in private. This is foolishness. if he preaches the word then his congregation should know what he agrees with but deciding to bless an innocent child should not make people think he supports unwed sex

  • Tiffani

    Whatever happened to “Hate the Sin, not the sinner”?? He’s not condoning the mother’s choices by blessing the son, and I’m sure that’s what he’s so concerned about… his image.

  • shay

    This is why i feel that the Paulean way of worshipping has poisoned true Christianity! Jesus was not for all this pomp and circumstance…..

  • Mel Mel

    “Brethren, if any person is overtaken in misconduct or sin of any sort, you who are spiritual [who are responsive to and controlled by the Spirit] should set him right and restore and reinstate him, without any sense of superiority and with all gentleness, keeping an attentive eye on yourself, lest you should be tempted also.”
    Galatians 6:1
    Amplified Bible (AMP)

    Period.

  • Cassandra Roy

    Oh my, Jesus loved everybody, as a matter of fact, If memory serves me correctly, Jesus was born into the same situation, so I guess Winans would not have dedicated him either. Oh Well. Prayers.

  • JAT

    So sad, Pastor Winans should feel shame but I’m sure he doesn’t so we pray for him, God can change hearts and minds. Meanwhile single parents will not be attending his Church.

  • John Albert

    So, is Ms. Grace a virgin like Mary was. No doubt you restore someone who is in a fallen state, but I can’t fault an inner city pastor who doesn’t want to normalize abhorant behavior in the site of his congregation. It’s not the fault of the child. Mom does have the right to go to a more liberal congregation. I bet you that if she was a regular memeber of Bishop Winan’s church she would know the standard.

  • Diane

    Where’s the scripture that says “let the little children come to me…unless they’re from single parents.”?

  • Stephanie

    Marvin Winans should be ashamed of himself!! This is why churches are so empty today!!! The child is innocent…

  • https://www.facebook.com/onewaywayne Ernest Dawayne Luckett

    That’s the problem with the world today,no one wanna set rules and live by them, if he change his rules for 1 person ,then what was the purpose of the rules? If you don’t like his rules go else where.simple

  • https://www.facebook.com/pocket613 Ron Fleming

    So let me get this straight. Joshua didn’t bring himself here (into the world), he had nothing to do with his mother’s sexual activity prior to his conception, and he is a child that God has allowed to come into this world, but he’s a second-class citizen when it comes to this blessing ceremony that all the other children in the church are free to participate in. How does this mirror the actions and teachings of Jesus, as the Bible gives them to us? It doesn’t seem very Christian-like at all, and if that’s his stance, he should stop waiving the banner of “Christianity” and call it like what it is: the Church of Marvin Winans and His Personal Opinions Of You.

  • John Albert

    You are so right! No one is giving him the credit of trying to maintain the spiritual sensitivity of others in the congregation. Everyone is pooping on him, but what happens when his lack of a moral standard causes the “baby doll” epidemic? He is an inner city pastor who doesn’t want inner city statistics becoming an accepted issue in his church. He never said the child couldn’t be blessed. Just that he wouldn’t lift up unwed mothers.

  • John Albert

    But Sis, the issue is that he doesn’t want to a dedication service in the site of the mass congregation. The child can still be blessed. Mom just wants to post up in front of the church to do it. Should he lower the standard and normalize unsavory statistics in front of his congregation? Is mom looking to have her baby blessed or just feel good about her shortcoming? I’ve been in churches that stood on both sides of the fence. I know why he didn’t perform the ceremony and his intentions are not ill-willed.

  • Sheila Williams

    As a pastor his job is to bring people to Christ not judge or cause them to run from the house of God. None of us know the reason as to why the mother is did not marry the father of her child and frankly it is not necessary to know. All pastor Winans needed to do was remember who he represents and serves and the mission that he was supposedly called to fulfill. Rules should be made to protect and help those that come under his ministry, not cause them to feel less than worthy of the same treatment other sinners incur. Even Jesus ministered to those that made life choices that were outside the teachings of Christ. He embraced the sinners and loved them unconditionally. Who is pastor Winans to do less than The Most High God. If you cannot accept people where they are in life than perhaps being a man of God is not truly his calling.

  • Tish Jefferson

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but New Testament trumps Old…Jesus said that the children (and he never specified the children of married people) should NOT be forbidden to come to HIM-major side-eye to the Pharisees AND their temple!

  • BARRY ONEAL

    Honey Smooth, This is what I say about this MAN MADE religion!!! GOD hasn’t told him to do that, its his rule which is MAN MADE!!!!! So many churches are making up rules according to them and NOT God’s rule.
    MATTHEW 18:1-7
    (1) At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
    (2) And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
    (3) And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    (4) Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
    (5) And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receives me.
    (6) But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
    (7) Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but WOE to that MAN by “whom” the offence comes!!!!!
    PASTOR MARVIN WINANS YOU ARE WRONG, ITS NOT UP TO YOU TO JUDGE “CHILDREN” BECAUSE THEY WERE BORN TO UNWED MOTHERS. ITS NOT YOUR CALL SIR, YOU ARE JUDGING AND THAT’S NOT UP TO YOU!!!! WHAT DID THE CHILD DO THAT “YOU” WON’T BLESS HIM/THEM??????

    THIS WAS A COMMENT ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE AND IT NEEDS TO BE HERE ALSO……..

  • Tish Jefferson

    Sooo… We only know the young woman sinned (i.e., fornicated) because she had a baby w/o a husband. If the minister was only “standing on his Christian principles” about her behavior, he shouldn’t be blessing the child at all. The fact that he refuses to grant the child a blessing in front of the congregation (but will let it be done in a back office on a Wednesday by an “elder of her choice”) REEKS of slut-shaming, It says, “I’m too holy to get my hands dirty dealing with your nasty ways and your bastard child, but one of my minions can do it on the low.” I find it hard to believe that Jesus (who Christians strive to be like) would condone that.

  • Charles Johnson III

    I personally understand that this type of behavior and or action is the wrong way to go. I understand the premise of Pastor Winans, but I believe that single parent children need to be uplifted in some cases even higher than children raised with both parents.We were all born into this world with sin. And no one reserves the right to say who can or cannot be blessed despite that person’s situation.God knows their heart, and there is none higher than he who created us. And if Jesus has shown grace and compassion in his heart, and has blessed all of us, not just some of us. We should all strive to be Christlike. To sum things up none of us hold any authority to pick and choose because we are flawed and imperfect. We all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So don’t cast a stone toward anyone else unless you happen to be JESUS CHRIST. That includes Pastor Winans, and everyone else who may happen to read this response…………1 love.

  • Tish Jefferson

    First, let me commend you for your efforts to remain pure, I know that’s not always the easiest path for a teenager in 2013. But you speak of being concerned for the effect of having this woman ‘paraded’ in front of you…Do you think for a minute that all the unwed women in your church who don’t have kids are celibate? Is it the sight of the mother WITH her child that would incite you (or your fellow church-teens) to sin? What exactly would she have to do to meet your approval? Public declaration of repentance? Find a husband? I’m curious as to what your Reverend would say.

  • cristy love

    He did the same thing to Vicki and she went to stay with Oprah.

  • Joshua Smith

    The fact is Jesus Christ said forbid them not, not doing it in front of the congregation just shows a lack of obedience and commitment to accept all God’s children who want to be saved And he call himself a bishop he better read the Word of God first, Jesus said suffer the little children to come on to me is he greater than Jesus Christ I think not

  • Dee

    That’s what you get for religious institutions. its a membership organisation and organisations have rules! Simples

  • http://myfemalepersuasion.com myfemalepersuasion

    I think that’s a very idiotic decision on his part, and if I were a follower in his church, I would question his motivations and the real impact on making children and parents feel inferior because of marital status. Is he passing judgement on parents that ARE married, but living hypocritical double lives?

  • http://myfemalepersuasion.com myfemalepersuasion

    Or if she knew his standards, she would have never expected her nor her child to be accepted there. I guess you live and you learn.

  • http://myfemalepersuasion.com myfemalepersuasion

    I think society glorifies marriage – even unhappy ones where two people are suffocating. As long as you’re “married” you’re seen in a better light – as Pastor Winans has demonstrated for us.

  • Deborah Lane

    Wasn’t Jesus conceived out of wedlock? Not disrespecting my Lord, and Savior, but I don’t think He would approve of this. Shame on you Pastor Winans. I looked up to you as one of the great Spiritual Leaders of my generation. That young man, should have been the FIRST child on your list to bless.

  • angel

    To bless a child behind closed doors is just like stating that there is something shameful about the child. Jesus would not have blessed the child behind close doors to please people. Again, Does Pastor Winans refuse to pray over unsaved people in front of the congregation during an alter call?

    Just because a baby is born while the parents are married, does not mean the parents are not fornicating, etc. You may say, “But the baby is innocent.” So is the baby from the unmarried parents.

    Romans 3:23

    23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

  • Peter

    This man has no blessing to offer

  • Gary Andricks

    Perfecting church Mr. Winans? You and your church should spend more time at the altar to find His saving grace…..

  • tjohn

    There’s another perspective here. It’s important to consider the fact that the decision of the pastor is not to condemn the child nor the parent(s), but also not to condone acts, the lifestyle or decisions that were made by the individuals that resulted in conception. Although Pastors/Shepherd may operate their “Houses” differently , one might consider focusing on the blessing and not an audience for the baby’s dedication. Also, there are certain standards everyone has for his own house and those standards/principles set for the house would need to be respected by anyone entering/living/visiting. I’m sure the decisions that “Shepherds” have to make for their “House” are tough decisions, especially in today’s world. You can’t go wrong by being prayerful about the situation.

  • http://twitter.com/kmcooley Kimberly M. Cooley (@kmcooley)

    Though I think highly of the Winans family (particularly Marvin), if this is indeed true, it is one of the most elitist, idiotic moves I’ve ever heard of. Who is he to make this call? The child is here. Get over it and get over yourself. That symbolic veil exists no more and he clearly forgot that no man needs no other man to get to God. Actions like this do nothing more than turn people from God and from the church. I will stop here. Very passionate on this particular topic because I have lived it. Not a soul on this earth has that much power.

  • http://aol elkscorpion

    bunch of hypocrites, he probably has some unclaimed kids out there his self. religion- gotta love it

  • o williams

    I have one thing to say about this situation Matthew 19:14

  • Casssandra Colo’n

    Bull, when a pastor sets these types of examples among his church, he is saying, he is not a sinner himself. Yet his own relative stole 8 million dollars of people’s money in Detroit with no remorse what so ever. I think the statment is “He who is without sin let him cast the first stone”?? Is pastor Winans saying he is without sin? Let’s not forget Mary had Jesus out of Wedlock didn’t she. This younglady doesn’t need to know or think what she did was wrong. Love can make strange bed fellows, and sometimes, most of the time it is the woman who pays while the bastard man walks away clean. This child should NEVER be made to think he was a mistake, or crime because of a birth that God made possible in the first place. Mr. Winans rethink your behavior, and apologize for your nasty hateful rule. God does not like ugly, and he will certainly not like you for what you think and do before his presents.

  • Mabel

    Matthew 18:2-6

    He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

  • John Albert

    You’re not a Christian, but you can still be right. It’s amazing how church folks are trying to legitimize this.

  • http://gravatar.com/greendoondoon greendoondoon

    @Dee,
    If he wants his church to be a private organization, then he needs to give up that tax-exempt status PDQ. My money is paying for this bullshit.

  • Carletter

    Pastors should guide the church by God’s word. Here are a few grace, mercy and forgiveness.

  • Pauline Marshall

    He Refuse 2 Bless Children Of Unwed Mothers In Front Of The Congregation But Yet Don’t Have A Problem Accepting Their Money In Front Of The Congregation!!! Shame On U 2 God Wouldn’t Turn His Child/Children Away Because Of Them Wanting 2 Do Right!!!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/flexdoc flexdoc

    Another self fashioned “holy” man.

  • charles johnson

    its all about money and status today the church has lost its way

  • ELS

    ALL CHILDREN ARE GODS CHILDREN SHAME ON THE PASTOR HE SHOULD READ THE BIBLE MORE GOD TURNS NO ONE AWAY

  • Common Sense

    SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on him. This is another reason of a multitude of reasons why I denounce institutional religion!!!!! Sick!

  • Natalie B.

    This is a very sensitive issue for a lot of people, because they themselves were born out of wedlock, and they are taking this personally, which I understand. However, this woman is in her late thirties, and although she might be new to “the church” she had to know that in most churches out of wedlock births are not viewed as being in line with traditional church teachings. As someone who was deeply offended by what she was told, and as a believer, she should have gone with another believer and inquired further as outlined in 1 Corinthians 6, 1-8, but she didn’t do that. She went to a TV station, and for what? These people are not going to change their policy regarding this, just as many other churches refuse to change their opinion on marriage equality, and if it’s the church’s right to hold certain beliefs in one instance, they can do the same for others.

    I hope this woman and her son find a place of worship where they feel welcomed. Living the Christian life is being “set apart.” There will be times of alienation and being ostracized. If I were her, I would concentrate on raising my child and my walk instead of this.

  • Cheyenne

    Judgmental jerk.

  • 9Boots

    @ Jey

    You are missing the point. The bigger picture here is if the mother does not stop fornicating and all the other so called Christians they will not get into heaven. So while everybody is straining at gnats over a dang ceremony, people are going to fornicate themselves straight to hell! This is not a game. The pastor is standing for marriage, then sex, the baby.

  • http://don-waters.com Donald

    It was right for the Pastor to not comment …

  • 9Boots

    @ Ads

    The topic is fornicating and the byproduct of having children OOW and how the pastor/church chooses to administer the ceremony.

    The dedication ceremony is actually about the PARENTS. The purpose is that the parents are dedicating the child to The LORD and are taking a vow to train up their child in the ways of The LORD.

    Parents can dedicate/bless their own children. It is not necessary to have another person do so and that’s including a pastor. A dedication/blessing has no weight as to whether or not a person can get into heaven so technically it’s neither here nor there. I wasn’t even dedicated as a baby/child. This is really a ritual and instead of focusing on a ritual the mother should be more concerned about actually following through and training up her child. The fact that she does the ritual is neither here nor there if she does not live the life accordingly and follow through with her vows. The ritual does not save your child, your child will have to live in the ways of The LORD in order to be saved.

    “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.” Matthew 15:8 (NIV)

    This is really about the mother just wanting to be a part of the bigger “show” per say rather than be a part of the smaller show. The BC has a 75%- 80% OOW birth rate which would actually be 85% if it was not for all of the abortions. Can you imagine that at any dedication/blessing close to eight out ten of the children are OOW? What kind of message is being sent here? “Ohh it’s no big deal let’s all act like this is completely normal and not out of the will of The LORD. Let’s also act like this is not a symptom of the root problem which is ….we have too many dang people fornicating up in the church. And not only do we have too many dang people fornicating in the church but these same people REFUSE to use birth control both men and women.”In order to not normalize this OOW situation the church does have the right to make a decision that takes a STAND against the desensitization of having premarital sex and the subsequent OOW birth.

    Now what I find even more interesting is how for the last 50 years the church has been looking the other way trying not to hurt people’s feelings when it came to the OOW situation. For the last 50 years black folk have been having these baby dedications left and right taking vows to train up their children in the way of The LORD but somehow the MAJORITY of black folk manage to not TRAIN their children that fornicating is a sin, they don’t train their children that marriage is The LORD’s WILL, and they don’t train their children that having OOW children is NOT The LORD’s WILL. So apparently black folk just want to put on a “show” and do the dedication/blessing but they refuse to train their children accordingly and refuse to accept the consequences that eventually you will start getting called out.In addition some people have the audacity to blame everyone else other than themselves.

    You have a bible. You claim to have The Holly Spirit. You still don’t know how to live right or are you just using the pastor as a scapegoat? Your LORD says “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me”. Matthew 16:24-26 (ESV) What is really going on here is that people are deflecting from their sin of fornicating. They can’t stand the judgment of having a separate private dedication/blessing because it reminds them of THEIR SIN and they are refusing to address it. I have news for you….YOU CAN’T FORNICATE ALL THE WAY INTO HEAVEN. YOU WON’T GET IN. Stop straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

  • Rai

    You belong here, unless you’re an unwed mom. Then we want you to sit waaaay in the back, but don’t forget to pay them tithes! He is a man of God (or so he says), he IS NOT God. So who cares about his opinion?

  • http://wigawihty.blogspot.com Linda Silverberg

    OMG, my mouth is still hanging open!!! I can’t believe it!! And the church is named PERFECTING FAITH!!! SERIOUSLY??? Marvin, nor his family members are the epitome of perfection anything! And someone said, maybe there’s more to it!! The only story is this: Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, born of a virgin, came to die for ALL (even unwed mothers’ babies) for the remission of sins, crucified, dead and buried, but Hallelujah, RAISED from the dead, ascended to Heaven, interceding before His Father for us, disgusting, sinful creatures; soon to return!! If Marvin had that rolling around in his head, he would NOT have made such a decision!!! What a disgusting representation of God’s grace (and the baby’s mother is GRACE!!) and mercy!! If I was a member of the church, I swear, I’d be outside with a picket sign tomorrow!!! JESUS, please come back. How long, O Lord!!

  • http://wigawihty.blogspot.com Linda Silverberg

    My sister, I’m a product of a Baptist church turning me out when I, at 28 years old, made a mistake and became pregnant. The church is to take a hold of people, surround them with prayer, love, instruction and guidance, not a penitential system of two-facedness and hate!! The pastor that turned me out was the father of a heroin addict, and now that I think about it, was GAY! and those deacons were a bunch of whoremongers too!! And I’ll bet you, the leaders of the church are no different now then they were 30 years ago, and decades before that! I could never reconcile myself back to God’s precious love until recently because of the hurt those people caused me! And so, Marvin Winans has misrepresented God’s love through Jesus, potentially turning another sister away from the church.

  • http://wigawihty.blogspot.com Linda Silverberg

    Oh My sweet Jesus! How true this is!! And he’s no man of God. He can write all the songs he wants, he’s just like every other hypocrite in the church — the only difference is he’s in charge!!

  • Apostle Louia HenryMinistries

    What has a child/baby got to do with the parents being unwed??? why suffer the child the equal rights to be bless like other children even if the mother refuse or did not get the privilege to be married and to bring that child into a marital environment??? suppose the mother was raped??? why bless the child in secret and not in the open congregation, is not that hypocritical and partial??? …. if it can be done in secret it should be done in public!!!

  • Valerie Simmons

    How can you expect young people to want to attend church if they feel they are going to be judged and rejected. There are a lot of churches that are scrambling to get young people to attend services and this man has the nerve to reject someone. He’s not GOD !

  • https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100006838417573 MonieSays

    Wasn’t Jesus born to an unwed/single mother? #churchfolks

  • http://fb Oliver Wiggins

    I believe that the entire congregation needs to come together and look at this policy. The pastor is human and therefore makes mistakes, human error. This should and needs to be corrected, Jesus came to save the sinners. Seems to me that the pastor is supposed to be carrying on God’s work. I believe that if he looks at what he is doing, he will see the error of his ways.

  • Althea C. Epps

    F THE PASTOR HAD RULES/GUIDE LINES THAT ARE/WERE EXPECTED THEN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT OUT THERE FOR THE CHURCH MEMBERS. IT IS ALSO THE CHURCH RESPONSIABLIITY 2 INFORM IT’S MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH BY-LAWS, IF THERE ARE ANY OF WHAT IS EXPECTED OF IT’S CHURCH MEMBERS AS WELL AS TEACHING THE WORD OF GOD. THE PASTOR SHOULD HAVE INFORMD THE MOTHER HIMSELF NOT SEND SOMEONE ELSE THIS WAS A COWARDLY ACTION. IF HE WOULD HAVE TALK 2 THE PARENT HIMSELF THIS SITUATION WOULD NOT HAVE GONE PUBLIC. EVERY THING IS DONE N DECENTLY & N ORDER. I PRAY THAT THIS MOTHER’S SPIRIT HAS NOT BEEN BROKEN. MY PRAYERS ALSO GOES OUT 2 THE PASTOR AMEN!!!

  • Marisa

    This is not a man of god. This is a man who’s allowed his own pride to cloud his judgement of how should be treating other human beings. Jesus did NOT treat people this way. I’d like to remind the ‘Pastor” that Jesus was born to an unwed mother.

  • Jane Doe

    religion is the root of all evil and it’s only purpose is to control people, throught this type of mind fucking…he set this woman free from the acceptance of the chains that masquerade as ‘faith’. He is a power obsessed misguided narcissist. And so it goes with all relgions and ‘men of god’.

  • http://gravatar.com/redgrandad ditch the nonsense

    When is the Black community going to wake up and ditch the slave masters religion

  • https://www.facebook.com/matthew.lohr.90 Matthew Lohr

    Yep curse the child for the father not doing the right thing. I guess I am going to hell as well both my parents dumped me. Is it possible to go to hell twice?

  • http://gravatar.com/redgrandad ditch the nonsense

    Strand because xtains who claim their religion came from Judaism has no concept of Original sin. it is a pagan oncept

  • ann

    That is disgrace. That mother and her son are gifts from god, how disrespectful can u get. I would not went him to prey for me. Your family ain’t perfect.

  • 9Boots

    The dedication ceremony is actually about the PARENTS. The purpose is that the parents are dedicating the child to The LORD and are taking a vow to train up their child in the ways of The LORD.
    1. Parents can dedicate/bless their own children. It is not necessary to have another person do so and that’s including a pastor.

    2. A dedication/blessing has no weight as to whether or not a person can get into heaven so technically it’s neither here nor there. I wasn’t even dedicated as a baby/child.

    3. This is really a ritual and instead of focusing on a ritual the mother should be more concerned about actually following through and training up her child. The fact that she does the ritual is neither here nor there if she does not live the life accordingly and follow through with her vows. The ritual does not save your child, your child will have to live in the ways of The LORD in order to be saved.

    “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.”; Matthew 15:8 (NIV)
    This is really about the mother just wanting to be a part of the bigger show per say rather than be a part of the smaller show. The BC has a 75%- 80% OOW birth rate which would actually be 85% if it was not for all of the abortions. Can you imagine that at any dedication/blessing close to eight out ten of the children are OOW? What kind of message is being sent here? “Ohh it’s no big deal let’s all act like this is completely normal and not out of the will of The LORD. Let’s also act like this is not a symptom of the root problem which is ….we have too many dang people fornicating up in the church. And not only do we have too many dang people fornicating in the church but these same people REFUSE to use birth control both men and women.”;
    In order to not normalize this OOW situation the church does have the right to make a decision that takes a STAND against the desensitization of having premarital sex and the subsequent OOW birth. Now what I find even more interesting is how for the last 50 years the church has been looking the other way trying not to hurt people’s feelings when it came to the OOW situation. For the last 50 years black folk have been having these baby dedications left and right taking vows to train up their children in the way of The LORD but somehow the MAJORITY of black folk manage to not TRAIN their children that fornicating is a sin, they don’t train their children that marriage is The LORD’s WILL, and they don’t train their children that having OOW children is NOT The LORD’s WILL. So apparently black folk just want to put on a “show” and do the dedication/blessing but they refuse to train their children accordingly and refuse to accept the consequences that eventually you will start getting called out.
    In addition some people have the audacity to blame everyone else other than themselves. You have a bible. You claim to have The Holly Spirit. You still don’t know how to live right or are you just using the pastor as a scapegoat? Your LORD says “;If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me”. Matthew 16:24-26 (ESV)

    What is really going on here is that people are deflecting from their sin of fornicating. They can’t stand and the judgment of having a separate private dedication/blessing because it reminds them of THEIR SIN and they are refusing to address it. I have news for you….YOU CAN’T FORNICATE YOUR WAY INTO HEAVEN. Stop straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

  • Diontae Matthews

    Thank you. They may or may not be, but he is preaching for them to be celibate. The sight of the mother with her child would basically tell us, “Bishop ordains the act that he is telling us not to do.” She doesn’t need any approval, the child can still be blessed and she can be a loved and welcomed member of the church and raise him to be a member. But this particular ceremony is for married parents vowing to raise their child in the way of The Lord.

  • DM

    What do you mean advocate for the family? He preaches celibacy. The church is forever having a job fair and getting members jobs. There is an entire department that does just these things. Even go to them with important bills, and you’ll receive help paying them.

  • Jessica

    Pastor Winans is protecting the mindset of the youth in his church who are following God’s commandments. He is saying that he will not condone the further destruction of the proper path that young women should take to become mothers. He is saying that mothers with husbands should be affirmed when they live within the framework that God himself has set up.

    With a 73% out of wedlock birth rate among African American women, steps must be taken by moral men to renew our cultural standards. Not only should he not condone out of wedlock births; he should set up a curriculum of study for single mothers before their babies are blessed in a group ceremony. Education and Godly social training would truly alter the behavior and the mindset of the young black single mother. If not, she will appear before the church again and again with her sin based behavior in her hands seeking to have them blessed.

  • I am a sinner too

    How about you stop being a judgmental witch? Neo-Pharisee!

  • Azzure

    Well the child was out of wedlock or in other conceived out of the will. He’s not the only pastor to practice this & he won’t be the last either. People may think he’s wrong but it is what it is. Don’t like it? Well find another church. When it comes to the word nowadays if someone teaches correction from the word but it doesn’t fit into your lifestyle, it’s called “judging”

  • La Tosha

    Please! He is judging that’s what he is doing..she should be set aside and have her child blessed behind closed doors? The purpose of the church is to embrace and encourage not demean and tear down! A soul is a soul and thanks to Pastor Winans judgemental policy this young lady may get set back and discouraged from going to church anymore. I am a single mother as well and had my child out of wedlock and God loves me and my child just the same who is now saved! There is nothing to be said to condone this behavior. I pray this young lady finds another church home!

  • Beauty_in_Grace

    Do you not know what the Bible doctrine is? I guess it should change because it would make people feel better?

    Sin is sin, the boy would still be blessed, just not infront of an audience. The blessing is what matters not the audience right? I applaud what this Pastor is doing, we need less single Mothers in the Black community, we should not approve of in the Church what the Bible does not approve of, and let’s not even get started of what Out of Wedlock births is doing to the Black community.

    Please don’t expect the Church is lower its standards to the worlds, because then it wouldn’t be a reflection of God.

  • Beauty_in_Grace

    I bet the majority of the commentors on this post are
    A) Not Christians
    B) Not true PRACTICING Christians
    or C) Have a real big problem with Christianity in general.

    With that being said, everyone sins. We repent of our sins, but we don’t parade them around and glorify them. The boy was going to be blessed, that is what is important not that there is an audience present.

    With 70% of black children being born out of wedlock and a HUGE portion of black children growing up in poverty SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE.

    You can’t consider yourself a true Christian and not follow God’s principles. “If you love me, you will follow my commands,” says the Lord. You can’t dishonor the Lords commands and then expect to march your kid up there and have him blessed in front of everyone in the Church as if you are living right.

    That is like marrying a gay couple in the Church because we shouldn’t judge. You can love the sinner AND still refuse to highlight the sin.

    If most black people were truly Christian like they pretend to be, then many of the problems we see in the community would cease to exist.

    I have no problem with those who aren’t Christians, don’t believe in Christianity, I have a problem with those lukewarm Christians, that expect people to cater to their sin.

  • http://google judy christian

    How righteous we are. Who are you to judge grace. That’s is what is wrong with people. She has every right to come to chruch, but it dosen,t sound like she would find much compassion at yours. People are looking for help or a sense of family and community and compassion. Who are you to say grace want find and accept the love and forgiveness of jesus.
    She has every right to want her child to be blessed. It should not be done in secret. Jesus died for all of us and he did it openly. By the way, i am a christian.

  • http://google judy christian

    You were born into sin. Like every human being on this earth. God didn’t approve of you as a sinner. He died for you anyway. The chruch dosen’t have to lower it’s standard. They need to raise them. By the way most of those good chruch folks are sinning monday thru saturday and soon as they leave chruch on sunday.

  • http://google judy christian

    The fact is that jesus was born to a unwed mother. I am sure you disobeyed the lord at some point in your life. If you didn’t you are the only perfect person in the world.

  • http://google judy christian

    Sin is sin. No sin is greater than any other. I dare you defend this ignorance. His job is to teach the word. He is not a judge of any human being. News flash! You have sin and so have all of you other perfect chruch folks sitting in chruch on sunday. Who are you to ostrasize anybody who made a mistake.

  • http://gravatar.com/walksbyf8h walksbyf8h

    I’ll tell you who Beauty_In_Grace is – someone who actually READS her Bible. The BIBLE says that Christians are to JUDGE what goes on IN the Church and NOT to judge those OUTSIDE the Church (1 Cor 5). Nowhere is it even inferred that the child would not be blessed – only that it would not be done in front of the congregation. Pastor Winans is right not to compromise on the issue – the Word of God is above your or anyone else’s idea of compassion. Now – it would be quite different if they refused to bless the child at all but that is not the case.

    “I want to instill values and morals in my son based upon the word of God,” said Grace.”

    Grace should have thought of the values and morals she exhibited in getting pregnant outside of marriage. While I applaud her change in worldview – HOPEFULLY – she must learn from reading the Word of God that there are consequences to our actions. No, the Lord doesn’t sweep our mistakes under a rug so we face no consequences for our actions. As the BIBLE says, “as a man sows, so shall he reap” (Galatians 6:5-9).

  • Jessica

    Repentance is the per-requisite for the forgiveness of sin. Black women are having numerous babies by several men. Is the church obligated to condone this self-destructive, culture-killing, sinful behavior? The answer is a resounding “NO.”

    If Pastor Winans were a weak man, he would give in to those who would overlook this type of sin. And if he did, he would find himself blessing a string of out of wedlock children brought before the church by just one women. Multiply that by all the other women with a house full of “different daddy babies” and you’ve got a pastor who’s church is becomes counterfeit, and a pastor who has compromised the Word of God.

  • http://gravatar.com/marionrozelle marionrozelle

    He got it twisted. The church is for sinners, Jesus blessed sinners, healed them forgave them and saved them – Does this man think he is above that?????

  • ETIENNE

    This guy wont bless a child born to an unwed mother. The child didnt ask to be born but yet is here…..wtf ? Ok instead of doing bs like this I thought the church was supposed to embrace those in need and not turn their backs on them. Obviously this child’s mother is a member of the church …so uhmmmmm you are taking her tithes but you want to piece meal what she has access to in the church like it has a menu. See this why I cant fool around with these types of poverty pimps who are going to judge rather then help. Last I knew he was born a sinner and is gone die one. I bet his ass preaches funerals for those non-productive negros that die doing what they know they shouldnt be doing because their family member is in the church. He will stand at the podium telling lies about how the deceases was a laborer …..a title held in esteem for hard working men. He is a holy damn hypocrit…anyone still in that church is a fool. Turning someone away will not create change…embrace them and show them the error of their ways …..thats how you create change. Jesus…Allah…Buddha they didnt turn anyone away. Also last I heard the Winans fanily as a whole is not free of kids born out of wedlock…so go figure. If you are going to peice meal your services to your members then be fair and let them know up front what they can and cannot do as for as being a member of the church. This child should not bare his mother burden….sorry but this is church and all are supposed to be welcomed. Isnt church supposed to be the one place sinners are welcomed….?

  • http://google judy christian

    Where do you people come from. Are you really from earth. Jesus on the cross said to the thief, this day you will be with me in paradise.that thief accepted jesus on the cross, with all of his sin, this day he is with jesus. You perfect never sinned people dare to think you know what compassion is. How do you know that grace has not repented. You have not walked in her shoes or stepped in her situation. Pastor winans should get a reality show. He belongs no where near a pulpit.

  • http://gg gg

    How did this get in the news? I want to hear Pastor’s side as well

  • Pastor D L Traylor

    Darling, the bible tells us to study to show OURSELVES approved. Pastor Winans is a GREAT man of God with tremendous ability and leadership excellence. We all can speak honorably of his great works within the Kingdom, but just as it is with all of our biblical examples (David, Abraham, Moses…etc.); none were without fault but Christ.

    Please rid yourself of the worship you have for the ‘MAN’ of God and begin to honor the GOD of Man who knows the balance and administration of grace rests ONLY in HIS hands.

    I grew up COGIC and I was sent to the back of the church along with the unwed mother of my ONLY child (who is now 27 yrs old and a Staff Sergent in the US ARMY. married with 4 kids, living for the Lord, etc.) when we conceived him. BUT!!!! When our son was a year old my Pastor still blessed our son in FRONT of the ENTIRE congregration. As Pastor Barrett Lee said, it is not Pastor Winans or any other Man/Woman of God place to pass public judgement of a private matter which was, is and will remain between Ms. Grace and God.

    Pastor Winans teachings about abstinence is needed and necessary and WILL prove to be a blessing to those who adhere but NONE of us should banish or brand the child as a ‘WRONG’ nor the mother/father as wretched. What they did is their cross to bare and none of us should be the ones nailing them to it…Including Pastor Winans.

    LAST NOTE: Remember CHRIST was ‘conceived’ OUT OF WEDLOCK!!! Joseph honored God and his love for Mary and married her. And does Pastor Marvin have the same judgemental disdainment for his brother and nephew Michael and Michael (respectively) in lieu of the allegations and guilty findings of their allegations and now conviction for the multi-million dollar ponzi scheme. I assume we all can rest assured neither of them will EVER again be seated in Pastor Winan’s pulpit in this lifetime.

  • Beauty_in_Grace

    How am I judging Grace? Who said she couldn’t come to church? She would find compassion at my Church. She would not be coddled in her sin, however, and really that’s what most of the people commenting here want: To be coddled for their sins.

    As someone stated before this is not about the blessing, but about the attention.

    I don’t think that I or the Pastor lack compassion. But it is wrong to hold sin up in front of the Church and behave as if it is okay.

    @Judy: Are you a single Mother? Spend time daily with God and Jesus? I’m not judging but trying to get a feel from where you are coming from.

    But I want you to know: stating that you are a Christian means nothing in regards to you having some authority in disagreeing with me. I think that this Pastor handled this correctly. I don’t think, however that the Mother handled the situation correctly. It seems that she is seeking vengence. And that is a sin, “Vengence is mine says The Lord,” so not only does she seek to be coddled for one sin, but then she goes out and commits another sin because she wasn’t coddled in the first.

    Thanks Walksbyf8th. Your lamb is so cute! I do read my Bible and I do my best to be a woman after The Lords heart. I fail at times and I succeed at others. I’ve suffered for my failures.

    The Bible says “the wages of sin is death.” And it could be all kinds of deaths, just not the physical ones.

    There are consequences to ones actions and especially to one’s sins. All of the love, compassion, and understanding will not take the consequences away. And that is what most of the commmenters want: To live how they want with no consequences, and to be accepted by the Church for whatever actions they take.

    But a healthy Chruch would not opperate like that. A real Pastor will get in your face about your sins and living your life correctly. If your Church doesn’t do that, then you’re at the wrong Church.

    @Judy: I find it interesting that you didn’t even respond to my statement of how a lack of true Christianity deeply affects the Black community. And you know darn well that you aren’t suppose to be judging my Church. Regardless of what it “sounds” like to you. ;)

  • Beauty_in_Grace

    This is not about Grace repenting! This is about not having sin paraded around.

    The thief went to paradise because he acknowledged Jesus as the son of God on the cross. He, himself, also awknowledged that they deserved to be up there because they were thieves!

    But Jesus did not deserve to be up there, as he was wrongly convicted!

    How would this thief look if he brought all of the things he stole to the Church, tried to include them with the other member’s items in the Church “yard sale,” then was upset when his stolen “goods” were turned away.

  • jasmine

    Listen very carefully,
    Matthew 7:1-5 ESV
    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. ”

    So it doesnt matter what her situation is. Him denying her is a sin against GOD. Jesus never denied any man/woman who came to him for help or assistance. Here is my proof John 8:7 ESV
    “And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” So before you start quoting the Word of God Please know what you are talking about. Jesus didnt hang on that cross for the saints he hung up there for the sinners. His blood is grace and mercy because only HE knows what a person goes through every day. So before People start critizing others and quoting the bible please do your research. And if you have anymore doubt. Jesus Christ said this himself.

    1 Corinthians 4:1-21 ESV
    “This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God. … ”
    God Bless you all.

  • BJ Robinson

    When we dedicate a child this is a religious ritual presenting the child to our God! It’s about the baby. Every baby is a gift from God regardless of the circumstance of their birth. It’s not a celebration of the motherhood of the mother. Remember sin is sin to God. While fornication is a sin, so is gluttony! I don’t see the church condemning all those obese pastors and choir and gospel singers! Judge not lest you be judged everyone.

  • Sharon

    Oh My I cannot believe that selective judgement exists in a place of worship where God is to reside. There is NO child that should be excluded from the blessings of the lord based upon someone’s opinion or judgement of that child’s parents. Regardless of the vessel and the means through which God saw fit to send that angel here, HE DESERVES TO BE BLESSED AND DEDICATED TO THE LORD! This is ridiculous and over personification of prejudice.

  • Beauty_in_Grace

    Where have I judged the Mother of the child? The baby was not refused a blessing. What people want is an It’s OK to have children out of wedlock. It’s not, but that’s your journey. Good luck with that…

  • https://www.facebook.com/sonjikirk SanMarie Kirk

    You don’t have to write down a whole sermon, you turned people off with your first statement. This man is wrong on so many levels and needs to be corrected. The sin was the fornication and that’s it. The child only grows because of Gods glory of nature that lives in us and that is a blessing. You can pick the Bible apart and find so many verses to support how people feel on both sides of this debate. Yet, the bottom line is if he feels that way why call sinners to the alter and also why take sinners money, oh that can be done in the open but my child because I’m not married stays hidden. If you can’t do it in the open don’t do it in private. God and Jesus aren’t like that at all, Some of you people make them seem so closed minded and evil. God is love and he reminds us all the time that we all sin. Nobody is perfect and we all fall short. I can’t believe I just read this!

  • Rodney Hudson

    This instruction forbade an illegitimate child or, as some Bible scholars believe, a racially mixed Israelite from holding a public office in the nation of Israel. We should remember that Old Testament Israel was an unconverted, carnal people whose interests were primarily material and secular. God gave this statute to keep the physical nation pure and strong.

    Today, however, God is building a spiritual house rather than a physical nation. Each individual may or may not become a part of this spiritual building depending on how he conducts his life. A child is not prevented from receiving eternal life because of his parents’ sins, nor are the parents to be cut off from God as a result of their children’s sins (Ezekiel 18). Our relationship with God depends wholly upon our own actions (see also Jeremiah 31:29-30). Bible writers frequently mention that each person will be judged according to his own deeds (Job 34:11; Psalm 62:12; Proverbs 24:12; Romans 2:6; I Peter 1:17; Revelation 20:13; etc.).

    Jesus Christ said that true Christians are to worship God in spirit (John 4:23-24). Therefore, one’s physical ancestry will not prevent one from becoming a child of God today. The descendants of certain nations and peoples were never to enter the congregation of ancient Israel, but today we are told that all men of all nations may enter God’s Family upon real repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ as their personal Savior (Acts 10:34-35). Please also read Acts 17:30, Galatians 3:28-29, and II Peter 3:9.

  • MARIE

    what gets me is when people want to do what they want and how they want, the first thing they holler is, God is love, God is forgiving, we all fall short of the glory of God, nobody is perfect, or who are you to judge. .While all of this might be true, doesn’t mean we are suppose to let people do anything they want to. Church is where sinners go at to become saints. If they ,are not going to do things God’s way, then they might as well stay in their sin. You say we all sin and come short of the glory of God, yes we have, but the thing about it we still have to make it right with God, at the end of the day.God loves us all, he loves us the way we are, but he also love us too much to let us stay that way. No one is judging the young lady. There are other young ladies in the congregation see that she is not being chastise about having a baby out of wedlock, than that give them the incentive to do the same. We have to own up to our wrong, and whatever it takes to get it right, then this is what we have to do. A saved life is a controlled life, you just can’t expect God to accept anything. What the young lady should have done, seeing that she has already made an unwise choice, she should of come as humbly as she know how and did things the way she was instructed to do, and all of this would all be over. It’s just crazy, it’s just another way the devil has of attacking God’s church. Young lady go get your child blessed, get someone who can help you to turn your life around, and live for the Lord, that’s all. It don’t call for all the fuss. There is no time for it anyway. Time is winding up. Don’t let the enemy fool you any longer trying to keep a hold on you. you have to go and claim victory over that old mean devil, that’s trying to completely destroy you.

  • Minister E. Jones

    When I became a Christian, I attended a church that had a Pastor with the same policy. The church was located in an inner-city community with a high 60% African-American teen-age pregnancy rate. Some of the youth that attended our church from that community came from families where, their mother had never been married, their father had never been married, their grandmother had never been married, their grandfather had never been married, their aunts had never been married, their uncles had never been married, bothers, sisters, cousins, etc., etc., Most of their neighbors were single mother households, as was the rest of their community.

    The Pastor decided that the only way that these young people were ever going to see marriage and family was if it was modeled at church. Not only did he teach marrige and family, he used every opportunity available to reinforce that teaching to the youth. On baby dedication day, one srvice was held before the entire congregation, including the youth, for married couples, and another service for anyone that wanted a dedication, not including the youth. This ensured that all children were dedicated, while still setting the right example for the youth.

    By the time this Pastor retired, his church was well known for rarely having any teen-age pregnancy, or high school dropouts, compared to other churches in the area. It took time, but he changed the behaviour of an entire community, by giving the youth an example that was missing in their lives, which they so desperately needed. Instead of generational, out of wedlock birth, poverty, and welfare.

    The young people grew up in his church looking forward to graduating, getting married and having a family, not because of their homes, not because of their communities, but because their church instilled it in them. Many of these young people are now grown and married with families, still living living godly lives and teaching their children the same, but it would have never happened without a church and a pastor setting the example.

    The latest US statistics reveal that African-Americans are suffering from an epidemic of out of wedlock births.

    The statistics show the African-American out of wedlock birth rate at 72.2%
    White-Americans at 29.4%
    Asian-Americans at 17.1%

    We need parents, leaders, pastors, and educators, to address the systemic causes for this problem, and change it for the future of our youth.

  • http://falseprophets Jeffrey

    This is the ignorance of most so called dissolutional pastors of Christinanty. People have misconstrued the message of love from God but only to judge.

  • http://falseprophets Jeffrey

    Also to get that collection plate filled up also.

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